I told a friend that in my opinion the.308 and the .30-06 are about even. He does not agree!

For the average hunter, like he and I, that there is no real measurable performance issues for deer under 300 yards. He wants an all-around deer rifle (and for elk should he get drawn). And he thinks the �06 will give him an edge.

He doesn�t reload (nor do I), but I think that with the huge selection of commercial ammo available today, the field is pretty much level using ammo with bullets from 150 to 180 grains. And that shot placement is much more critical than the small difference in the two calibers.

Am I wrong? I really do not believe that I am, but if so please correct me.

I happened to be perusing ammo at the gun shop last week and noticed for the boxes I happened to compare, the listed velocity was the same for each. Surprised me. No doubt a 30-06 can be faster, but I'm not sure how much that translates to a meaningful advantage hunting.

The 06 might give a slight edge on heavy bullets. For deer, about the same. 06 with premium bullets also might be a slight edge, maybe 10% better performance. Little more speed and downrange energy. In my reloading manual 180 gr out of a 308 is about 2,500 fps, while the 06 is around 2,700 to 2,800 fps. This translates into a little more accuracy and a little more energy. Figures are on the maximum end speed. I use 150's for deer. Never hunted elk, but probably 180's would be better.

I agree that shot placement is the only criteria by which one can realistically assure success. I have killed more than a few dozen deer with both the 06 and 308 and have never seen any difference in the effect of a well plaaced bullet. I have, however, used the 06 with 220 grain bullets on elk once and expected better penetration and perhaps an exit wound. It worked but I now believe that a 308 with a good bullet - perhaps a NMosler partition, woyuld have done as well. Now my elk rifle is either a .338 or .375 and I no longer wonder about how many angels can dance on the head of a 600 nitro express case.

Terry

I've got both.I believe the 30-06 is better.It gives you more case to work with,better choice if heavier bullets are used,wide range of powders will work in it and can shoot any bullet the 308 shoots just a wee bit faster.I just wish I could get mine to shoot as accurate as my 308.

Best use of either case..... is necking it down.

$.02 from a non-gun-writer (and you're going to get a lot of that in this thread...):

I think the .308 would likely prove more effective in the hands of those who haven't/don't shoot a lot. Recoil makes a difference in shot placement, & the .308 has less. I don't know that a 7mm-08 wouldn't be even more effective (in terms of shot placement) than either cartridge, among this subset of hunters.

When talking about experienced shooters, I'd guess you'd have to kill many hundreds of elk with EACH cartridge to be able to see any meaningful difference. And there just might not prove to BE any difference.

FC

You're right. The pertinent question is whether the .308 would meet someone's needs. Preference is a different matter.

Here's how the decision would be made from a technical perspective. Determine the maximum distance at which he would take a shot. Pick the bullet(s) he wants to use for the application(s). Determine the muzzle velocity needed to give the minimum impact velocity for good expansion PLUS include a safety factor (add probably 100 to 200 fps depending on situation) for the maximum distance and the bullet(s) he wants to use. Consider wind drift and what muzzle velocity he would need for a "reasonable" (to him) amount of wind drift at the maximum distance. The cartridge chooses itself from a technical perspective. For deer and elk out to 300 yards, I gotta think the .308 would pass the test unless someone thought he needed a specific 180+ grain bullet with a poor ballistic coefficient and a high minimum impact velocity. With the selection of bullets available today, I can't see why someone would NEED a low BC 180+ grain bullet for elk (most .308" 180+ gr bullets are going to have a good BC).

I think more rifles chambered in .308 shoot 150s and 165s better than rifles chambered in 30-06. Could also be because dudes that pick the .308 seem to shoot more than guys with 30-06s, at least at the rifle ranges at which I have shot.

It's also not uncommon to see a .308 with a twist more "suited" to 150 and 165 grain bullets (11 or 11.25), whereas almost all -06s have a 1 in 10. Big difference? No. But I believe more .308s are purpose-built, and more 30-06s are built to be generalist rifles.

For 180 grains I prefer the extra push the 30-06 gives.

I also shoot quite often, so I pick the...30-06, as sometimes I feel the need to push a 180 grain bullet through an elk. And mine has an 11 twist, because if I wanted to shoot a 220 grain bullet I would move up to a .338 caliber.

Both are completely adequate, of course. What remains is exactly how you define "better." Ergo, it's personal.

I think the 308Win , for deer has been surpassed by the 260Rem. The 30-06 still will do its thing but see no real place with the 308 and this includes target shooting.

Huh?

the argument will never be settled.

My opinion is: for those "average hunters" shooting factory ammo, less than 300 yards, you will never be able to tell the difference based on performance in the field. (but I like the '06 better )

One has 200% more power than you need for a deer and the other has 202%??? more than you need ?? No deer will notice the difference and neither will the shooter.

One thing about the 308 is that it is a short action. I'd go with the 308 if I was hump n the hills for the less weight factor. Good bullet selection, shot placement is a much larger contributor as said prior. Way too many factors to ever settle this one .

Tacksmacker

Buy both, problem solved! My 06's shoot 165/168 just as tight as my .308, so other than short action versus long action flip a coin. The weight thing is a non issue as well since I have a G1 Ti. I like the 308 for less recoil myself, but no intention of giving up the 06's.

I look at it as if you don't need a 180 grain bullet for what you're hunting then you don't need a .30 cal. you could do just as well if not better with a smaller bore. If you do need a 180 grain bullet then the .30-06 gets the nod over the .308 IMO.

Both are good rounds and arguments can be made for both, but the 30.06 will(all things being equal) always get higher velocities because it has more case capacity. The issue of does it matter is another debate.

you are right as long as you use 200 gr bullet or under in the 308 , but not many people use bullet over 200 gr in the 06 these days so my opinion the difference is mute. They are basically the same and Big Game won't know which round you shot them with.

In my opnion which dosen't mean squat. the 30-06 has the edge because it can handle 220 gr bullets better in case I wanted to go into Bear country. also you have to use premium bullets to get the 308 to perform as good as a cup-core bullet in the 30-06 again heavier bullets verses lighter bullets.

The last few posts prove my earlier comment. We can always find a characteristic that rationalizes our personal preference. They are distinctions without difference.

"Settle this Argument" Never gonna happen not enough time in the world or bandwidth. Basically I would take the stance his gun, his decision as choosing a 06 over a 308 is never going to hurt anything or vice versa. Oh for what it's worth I have a 308 but no 30-06.

Your friend is right. He needs an elk rifle w/ which he can also shoot deer. The .30-06 can better handle the heavier, more heavily built, higher BC bullets.

.............Nope! You`re not wrong imo.

Deer and elk cartridge out to 300 yards or even a little more, either make an excellent choice.

Tell your friend that his analogy is kinda like saying; the 300 Weatherby will do everything I need, but the 300 Win or 300 WSM is somewhat questionable.

Ballistically "on paper", the edge favors the `06. But realistically in the field for any deer or elk within 300-350 yards, there is no effective killing difference.

Type of bullet used and shot placement I`d say are more important than any discussion comparing the 30-06 to the 308 in realistic terms of killing effectiveness.

The debate will never be settled between these two. Tell him to draw straws or put labeled pieces of paper into a big bowl and draw one.

'06 w/180s has been a standard, though I'd stuff 200 PTs if I wanted to do some serious killing, just because, and 220s have knocked over a few really nasties.

That said, not much can't be taken w/a 308/130 TTSX combo, flat and lethal to most common ranges.

As above I like the 260. If I wanted to chose a 30 cal, odds are I'd get a 308, but neither is a bad choice.

I see a coin toss, but the 06 is King if pressed for all out service/distance. The reality is IMHO that few situations would occur where the '06 would actually make the difference in the outcome, given decent bullets/shot placement used.

Factory non-premium ammo = no difference.
You'll notice most of the arguments favoring the ought-6 are from reloading perspectives.
I personally prefer the 300 Savage and 30-30 in a 30 cal. Both work fine. I am however, an admitted recoil wussy. Why have Mike Tyson punch you in the shoulder when you can snuggle up to an attractive, petite little thing instead?

OKieinnGermany you and your friend are both right !

Can't fathom any difference in results given the original post. I would choose the chambering based on its availability in the rifle I like best, and the availability of the factory load (bullet) I wish to use (if not a reloader).

Of course, you could just go with a 270!!!

My own choice was a .30-06 (for 180gr)


and a .260Rem (for 129gr)

And really, anything from a .243 something to a .375 something will kill deer and elk just fine. If a .243 can't kill an elk the state of Wyoming, and other western states, wouldn't allow it to be legal. After that it's all personal preference and bullet placement.

That's not to say I want to carry a .375 H&H for elk, and I also don't want a .243 Win. But there really is no debate between a 260 Rem, 6.5 x 55, .257 Roberts, 25-06, .338 Win Mag, 30-06, .308, .270, etc etc. They all work fine.

But the 30-06 does it with more history and more class. And yes, I do prefer my Budweiser from a can. High class.

Given these are the only two choices, I will say this: In my humble experience - the edge goes to the .06. If you go in enough stores, look at enough catalogs, there are more selections for the .06 than the .308 - for the non-reloader. I have found this to be true in many states from my visits to them as well. Sometimes .06 is even cheaper than the same in .308 - don't know why.

Both will kill whatever you want just fine. I can also say I've killed whitetail, mule deer, antelope, and elk - all with a .308 in my hands. However, I just bought an 84L Montana in .06.... Putttin' MY money where my mouth is.

Just my experience...

SC

Budweiser has a lot of class, but it is all low...

What?!

I wonder what 6.5 Creedmoor guys drink--Blue Moon with an orange peel? 5 Barrel Pale Ale? Or is it only aged scotch and fine Pinot Noir for them?

.308 vs 30-06 is a pretty much a coin flip for me. Having said that, I have four -06s vs two .308s.

Which cartridge I use is decided more from a rifle choice than a cartridge choice. In standard bolt guns or single shots I'm more likely to take an -06. In my BLR or bolt carbine it's a .308.

I prefer my Bud from a bottle. no metal taste for me.

but not less than 7mm.

Well from the standpoint of 'Basic Deer' I still advise the .308 because of ammo availability and price in my area.

And yes I feel it is tomato(toe-may-toe)/tomato (toe-mah-tah) but he felt the '06 was a must, more or less.

I own both, never preferred one over the other. But went with the .308, gave my '06 to a nephew, he needed a decent rifle and I had my .308 made, the '06 was a standard off the shelf rifle.

When he asked the difference in calibers, I said "Not much." And I stand by my 300 yard absolute maximum range.

Nicely put

Snake

.308, the high powered Isuzu

A 150gr or 165gr premium bullet from a .308 will do everything that a .30-06 can do with whatever bullet you choose. How much velocity difference is there between the two with a 165gr bullet? 100fps? You can easily see that much difference between two loads in two different rifles chambered for the same cartridge. If you plan on using 180+gr bullets, you'll start to see a wider velocity gap between the two chamberings, but there is no need for that with the bullets we have available to us today, IMO.

Loaded to identical peak pressures, the 30-06 is slightly faster than a 308.

Most 30-06s have barrels with a rifling twist rate 1:10". Some 308s have barrels with a rifling twist rate of 1:12". The faster twist, coupled with slightly higher velocity potential when loaded to identical peak pressures, means the 30-06 can shoot every bullet that a 308 can shoot, plus some that some 308s can not shoot.

Overall, the 30-06 has an edge on the 308 and is slightly more versatile as a result.

I'll take a Meisterbrau, half the cost of Budweiser and no beer taste to bemuddle it's watered down aluminum flavor.
Or to put it another way, any beer in a storm.

The best choice is actually the .30-07, a little-known round introduced during the 1960's, when most hunters were magnum-crazy. It's case was exactly halfway between the .308 and .30-06 in length, and the few known rifles had 1-11 barrels.

It worked exactly as designed, but the company was a very small firm located next to a nude beach in southern California, and never had any money to spend on advertising. It didn't go anywhere, partly because the seven rifle loonies who even knew it existed constantly argued about whether it should be chambered in a short or long action.

Hey now, I have thought the 7x57 necked up to 30 would have been a cool idea... . Then again what is wrong with the grand ol 06???

Something to think about. If you were to load heavies, would you really rather be using this case vs the other???:::

OH geez now I need one as bad as a B-29!

Just to let you guys know, there is a difference between the 308 and 30-06:



Now if I could just remember which one is which.....

Only one real way to settle: you guys need to get a chronograph and compare that factory ammo. Whoever loses buys the chronograph...
Make him use irons
If you guys can find critters that can tell a difference then you have both shot more critters than any other mortal...

Gave some of you guys something to think about didn't it:

Yep.

What nut has a cache of .308 250 Barnes Originals? (grins)

BSA, kinda like a 6BR and 105....a great combo

The 243 only gets better and its an Elk killing machine

AM I SAYING THIS ??

Very Well Put and Accurate TOO !!

I totally agree

I've found the ONLY 308 advantage to be it's velocity in shorter barrel length rifles.

Yes, I noticed that too. Less powder to begin with, therefore less velocity loss with shorter barrels.

To some, Short Actions melt their butter. That's fine.

To me, 1/4" and 4 oz of weight is negligible. That's fine too.

Come on guys, can't we talk about 270 vs. 30-06......

Is the question which cartridge will make a deer "deader?".

For a hunting rifle if I wanted to shoot bullets weighing MORE than 180 grains I'd choose the .30/06 over the .308 Winchester. Because the longer cartridge case of the .30/06 holds more powder.

But for shooting thirty caliber bullets of 150, 165, or 180 grains... That extra one hundred feet per second that the 30/06 has over the 308 isn't going to make the deer any more "deader".

Yeah, if you can get the 06 out of the 270s shadow.

I like that, idahoguy from nevada....

.

Maybe being located next to the nude beach worked against them! What is "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would say?

You cant beat case capacity the 06 will always pull away as bullet weight increases.The 308 did do one thing very well it gave us the 7-08.

This is (or should be)the end of the conversation....

The 308 should stay where it belongs...in target guns,AR platforms,and the Military,and for foot soldiers who need lighter ammo and a 30 cal.

I've had two...why I don't know.I could not possibly get rid of them fast enough.The 30/06 (OTOH)is a real cartridge.

The 308 is a good cartridge just not as good as the 30-06

There's bugger all in at. The .308 is a few ounces lighter, the 30-06 is 100fps faster. I'm a short action kinda guy, so i side with the .308. I can see the attraction of the 30-06 and big bullets if you are in a place where big bears reside.

Or, the weight of a lightweight mountain rifle built around a .308 length action........

If you look at the Kimber 84M vs 84L, they list the weight difference in both the Montana and walnut-stocked rifles as a half pound.

One would think I am a .30-06 kind of guy and really I am. I have three 06s and only one .308. The .308 is on a long action Browning Safari small ring pencil barrel Mauser (kind of negates the long action weight penalty.) A good many years ago, while I was still gainfully employed in an administrative capacity and time was a premium, I stumbled into a very accurate factory load for it and a satisfactory factory load for my favorite 06. Cheap Fdseral 150s for the .308 and 180 Hornaday Light Magnums for the 06. I bought a bunch of each and am nearing empty on both.

Those of you whom claim that a few ounces makes no differemce, are either not bumping 75, or you got better genes than I did. As I get older, I find the trim .308 being used more and more. IMO, it is not better, but it works. jack

This is pretty much the way it is...This chart on Light Mags kinda sums it up reloading or factory...



Jayco

Outside of "needing" 200-220 grain bullets, the 30-06 had no advantage of on game performance. If I need a 200 grain 30 cal bullet, I won't be using a 30-06 either.

Tell me what a 308 loaded with a 130 ttsx at 3150 won't kill that a 30-06 will kill

Good post. Now were getting into the advantages of the 308. Lighter rifles, shorter bolt throw, slightly less recoil, and higher cyclic rate in machineguns (one of the reasons the round was developed).

It has been posted that (paraphrased) the 308 is at its best with bullets of 180gr and lighter. IME, 180gr is on the upper edge of the 308s wheelhouse and the weight at which the 30-06 starts to come into its own. The 308s I own and load for shoot best with 150 and 165gr bullets, but start to show signs of weakness (less fine accuracy) with 180gr bullets. As has been posted so boringly often, I like the "heavies" so that is one reason I prefer the 30-06.

Incidentally, I don't remember anyone ever saying or posting that the 308 is a bad cartridge. I also do not have that opinion. Every deer I shot with my various 308s became steak and burger. I suppose that could be considered the real test of its mettle.

Dig the logo! Did you creat that?

No, I captured it off the Internet.

I use a Model Seven 243 SS/LS and XP3 for everything that walks.

The 308 -vs- 30.06 should never be up for debate in hunting rifles.

I wonder if this might actually catch on. It could be advertised just as stated - inbetween the 30-06 and 308. As suggested in another post, the 7x57 could serve as the parent case. A total media blitz might just make it go. Stranger things have happened.

The 308 is a capable cartridge no doubt.In a short action wrapper I like the 7-08 better.Thats just the handloader in me liking caliber variety I guess.Honestly there isnt anything I will likely hunt that I would feel bad pointing a 308 at.

True..It should be the .300 Savage versus the .308....

I am not a .308 fan for my own reasons that I have seen personally and will not repeat here for a free for all.If you want a .30 caliber non magnum,why waist time on anything but the most popular/most used/most respected as a hunting rifle and especially,most versatile as in bullet weights offered.

From ground squirrels to Brown Bears..The 30-06 does it all.

Jayco

I see two (2) reasons why not.

1. "introduced during the 1960's". It didn't then, why now?

2. Since there is so little diff. between the 06 & 308... WHY would you want something in between?

Man 100 fps is all the difference in the world

3. It doesnt exist.

From Mice to Big Bears!

If you had a 30-06..Why would you need a .308?

If you had a .308..Why would you need a 30-06?

I don't think I need to go into specifics as it is pretty self explanatory..

Jayco

I'd prefer a 308 necked to 7.5mm

bsa1917, Nice M70s.
Always wondered how Winchester released the 308Fwt to a gun-buying public as a short action round and then delivered it with the same receiver as the '06. My 308fwt actually weighs a couple ounces MORE than my '06fwt. Extra steel pcs added to magbox and bolt for short ctg function. That's just the metalworks, then they stuffed the 308 into a denser/heavier walnut stock than the one on my '06. The thing's a brute.
But I understand the 308 fam was introduced by Win mainly to operate in their M88 lever and M100 auto. Suppose they were surprised those round backs languished and the bolt guns flourished?
Oh, of your two M70s in the photo, upper is the 308.

If thats the criteria 30-06 180 grain bullet.Thats pretty self explanatory as well.

30x57mm

I am not just talking the 180 grain..I said Mice to Big Bears..200 grain or 220 grain like Phil Shoemaker uses in his '06.He also found the 220/.308 Nosler out of the 30-06 to penetrate as well as the 338/250 grain Nolser.

Whatever the .308 can do/The '06 can do better with more velocity and energy not even mentioning the heavier bullets for large game.

The .308 is a great Deer round.

Jayco

Loco

You ruin thread after thread with your childish BS...Now..Stay on topic and tell us::::

Just how many game animals have you lost with the 30-06?Was it the caliber or the shooter?Would the .308 have been a better choice and why?

Probably recoil but thats just my thoughts.

I have never ever lost one animal with any caliber including the 30-06.

Jayco

30-06 isn't a caliber, you idiot.

Dance away...

Just how many animals have you lost with the 30-06 or any other cartridge?

Jayco

Is this the same person who just posted this?

Originally Posted By: logcutter
From Mice to Big Bears!

If you had a 30-06..Why would you need a .308?

If you had a .308..Why would you need a 30-06?

I don't think I need to go into specifics as it is pretty self explanatory..

Jayco

Rancho_Loco was so brave to post previously that he had lost game with the 30-06.I just want to know how many animals he has lost with any cartridge....

I am not going to argue the 30-06/308 as it is very clear which is an all around cartridge for all North American game and which is somewhat limited.Which one was used for years by Alaskan Guides for big bears and which one slayed Deer beyond numbers.

Hell,I am a 270 Win guy..

Jayco

Thats a surprise

Its all good fun Jayco.Grab one and hunt.We should be talking about what a turd that 270 Win is.

The 7.62X57mm is the best

Exactly and I agree 100%...Some people even like the 7MM Rem "Hit 'em again" Mag.But that's America..We have choices that tailor our personal needs.

Jayco

30x57? How about the classic 7.65x53 Mauser, what the 7x57 Mauser should have been all along

7.62x2.244"?

Too bad they didn't invent the .308 first.

Then the 30-06 could have been their improvement and we would not need to be having this discussion.

Everyone knows the 30-06 is better. the only question is when you need better.

then i guess the 30-06 <300 WSM <300 win mag <300 weatherby <300 ultra mag

see you need a 300 ultra mag it can do anything a 308 or 30-06 can do and then some!!!

"Man 100 fps is all the difference in the world"

Hey, ain't the 30-30 a .308 too?

For any game animal I hunt, from the rifles I use, I doubt there is anyone on the planet, or any game animal that could tell the difference. I use both, and I use pre-64 featherweights chambered for both.

jwall,

I do believe John's post was tongue in cheek. I suspected as such when he said "30-07." The the "nude beach" part cemented it for me.

Hey, making up fictional cartridges isn't any fun if nobody takes the bait!

One of the great things about publishing "The B-29" was the variety of responses from people who really, really wanted one....

30-03?

[quote=IndyCA35]Too bad they didn't invent the .308 first.

Uh 300 Savage!

It is after all the parent case to the .308 Winchester or should we call it the .308 Savage?

Jayco

TOUCHE' - Big Red. JB surprised me by entering the humor mode at that hour. Both of you got me on that one.

Man this thread has snowballed today while I've been working on my place. Took me a while to catch up and catch on.

So you've finally figured out the difference between cartridge and caliber?

If he wants a .30-06, let him get one. Put a good scope on it. Have him shoot it often, and shoot good bullets in it, and he will kill stuff.

I mean, really, a .223 will kill and wound deer just as well as those two will.

Yep, that's the way I feel too. The 308 ain't bad, it's just that the 06 is better PARTICULARLY if you handload.

I had had several 06s some yrs back and said, "I'll not have another one." Having 270s and 7m RMs I didn't feel there was any need.

Well, I do have another and am glad of it. Nostalgia, Classic, Parent to other Great cartridges and all that.

Now as to the 308, I don't expect to ever own another one. S A don't do anything for me and in the same gun, 1/2" shorter means nothing. Speaking JUST FOR MYSELF.

There is nothing wrong with the 308, the 06 is just TALLER !

I know of one trustworthy 'fire member who gets 2650fps from 20.5"bbl with 208gr A-max in 308. He only gets 2720fps from a 22.5" 30-06 with same bullet. I'd take the 308.
Don't want to settle this too quickly.

I would take the bigger engine when we're talking 30 caliber, up to the recoil threshold that I feel I can handle. In this case, that would be the 30-06.

The 30-06 AT EQUAL PRESSURES will outrun the 308 by more than 100fps every day of the week.

The 7.5x54 French...just between the 308 and 30/06 for capacity, PLUS the bullet is slightly larger, so according to many, it would be better than either , plus it has one more grain of bullet weight in 181gr. SP loads, since that seems to matter too...

The Belgian Mauser also cartridge comes to mind, but if we're going to be honest, everything is just sandwich meat between the 7mm and 8mm Mausers

30 Rem 1906
300 Savage 1920

The ought six outruns the 308 with 180's almost as much as the 300WSM outruns the ought six with 180's.

But you could always load a 130 TSX LOL.Everytime I see that I laugh heavy bullets will always have momentum on thier side.

And lighter ones will always have speed and flatness over average hunting ranges and if recoil is a consideration, hitting trumps all.

I'm not really in either camp, as they both have merits.

Yeah, but the 30/30 is better than the 308

Awe geez, now we got the 30-30 in the fight!

Don't know about "better", but every time I shoot my Marlin SC it makes me smile. What a sweet little deer rifle! And it killz-'em dead too. Wonder of wonders!

I asked two dead deer the same question -- one shot by a 308 and the other shot by a 30-06, and they both agreed that they would prefer to be killed by a 308, cause they died 0.000001 seconds slower, and they appreciated the longer life to get their affairs in order.

Seriously, I am a 30-06 fan, mostly because I am a reloader, and I can load heavier bullets (which I mostly don't) and I do get a little more velocity for a small advantage in trajectory. But the deciding factor is . . . . . . size matters.

In regards to the OP, since neither of you reload - all of this talk of bigger engine really isn't germane. What are your options for factory ammo and is there an appreciable difference is really the question. Looking through Midway's offerings, the three main weight bullets (150, 165, 180gr) are within 100 fps with the edge always going to the '06. Personally, I am a 308 guy and handload and it's easy to beat the factory 30-06 ammo with today's lighter powders (the exception being the High Energy Federal and Hornady loads). If I didn't reload, it'd just come down to which gun I preferred.

Wasn't the 30 TC developed to replace both the 308 and 30-06?

Did anyone actually buy one?

Doc

28Lx - I understand, normally I like Max BC/SD all equal, YET I LIKE what a 130 TTSX offers in the 308, not much I would not Punch w/one to 400 yds and it's flat to that range and milder recoiling. Never heard of any failures...not from the bullet...nor the round. Sure there are some when not steered well.

If I ever have a 308, for hunting it will get fed:

130 Barnes
150 ABs
165s - cup/core and/or Partitions

If I ever want more powder/power - an 06 will get stuffed w/200 PTs...but I really feel biased that a 338 or 9.3 in the same case makes more efficient use of the round, larger heavier bullets at good speeds, more cross sectional area and better expansion ratio.

I'd expect equal penetration w/wider wound channels than a .30

65BR,
Understood.I dont think the TSX is a bad bullet I just dont think that going all the way to a light for caliber bullet is the best application.

If you can't get it done with a .308 you're not going to get it done with a 30-06.

If you can't get it done with a .308, maybe with a heavier bullet, you can get it done with a 30-06. I can see some situations on large game where a heavier end 30 caliber bullet out of the 30-06 might just be the ticket, whereas the lighter end bullet out of a 308 may not. I do see the 30-06 as a broader brush chambering if including bullets on the heavy end.

The .308 is pretty good when necked down to .243, makes a great varmint/yote round that is legal where I hunt for double duty on deer. Where I see the .308 as a better fit is when packaged in a lighter mountain rifle format. Someone shooting lighter to mid-weight bullets trying to shave a bit of weight may see some advantage with the short action.

My personal favorite .308 is necked down to .243, and my favorite 30 caliber deer gun is on a long action, which makes it a 30-06.

Best

Isn't it about time for the bikini women in this thread too? Maybe Ginger and Mary Ann....

All I know is last deer season I could hear Dad banging away with his .308 so I walked over to his house and awaaay out there across the lot there was a buck standing there looking towards the house. He swore up and down the rifle should be on hair at 400 yards but he couldn't seem to be hitting it. I pulled up with my .30-06 and BAM, dumped him, one shot.

We measured it at 405 yards and when we got up to the buck, there was a pile of .30 caliber bullets laying on top of the grass right there at 401 yards. That .308 got that far and they just dropped right out of the sky like they'd hit a brick wall, but the ol' ought-six got her done by jingles.

reckon ill continue living on the edge with the underpowered 308

Whoa there. Settle an argument, which one was better, Ginger, or Mary Ann?

Mrs. Howell. Rrrawr.

Quite honestly if your hunting deer with factory ammo at under 300 yards you could throw everything from 243 up to 30-'06 into a bucket, pull out a cartridge and you wouldn't know any difference unless you read the head stamp. A properly placed round from anything in that range (some of us may even say .223 and up) on deer at 300 and shorter will cleanly kill a deer.
If loaded to like pressures a 30-06 will outrun a 308 by 200 plus FPS everytime. The 30-06 has 46 years on the 308 and that is a lifetime in rifle technology when considering the era at which it happened. Metallurgy progressed by leaps and bounds in that time frame and rifle actions became more and more stronger.
At 300 yds is there much difference on deer, black bear or even elk performance wise? No. Is there really much difference in action size and or weight for 99% of the hunters? No. Not much diff in recoil either. Either one will do I just happen to own an '06. Why? Everyone else in camp owns a 270 or 7mm Mag and I'm a bit nostalgic and like veteran/military cartridges. I roll my own and an 06 gives me a little more flexibility than the 308 with the heavier slugs which I like. Nothing against a 308 but I've fired my share of 7.62 ammo out of a M-60 in my day. Not to mention heard enough about it by everyone who owned a used TAC rifle and thought they really had something.

I do not necessarily agree. If by pushing a 220 gr. bullet faster, I wonder just exactly how fast are factory 220 gr. loads these days. Assuming that advertised vevelocivty of 2400 FPS is accurate, why would a .308 pushing a 220 gr. bullet at 2300 not at least be reasonably efective?
A while back I got a smoking dal on a name brand .308 and 30-06 ammo, both loads shooting 180 gr. bullets. it was a liquidation sale and I bought up every bit of 30-30, .308 Win. and 30-06 they had on the shelf. The 30-30s were $4.00 a box, .308s and 30-06 $5.00 a box.
One day, with nothing better to do, I took some of the .308 nd 30-06 ammo to the range to run over the chronograph for spits and grins. That was one hell of an eye opener. The 180 gr. 06 advertised 2700 FPS barely did 2600 FPS from my 24" barreled custom Mauser. The .308 ammo did 2600 FPS from a 22" barreled Winchester M70. Seems like at least in that brad of ammo, the 30-06 is no faster than the .308.
Because of this, I question the advertised speed of the 220 gr. 20-06 loads. I'd do a chronograph twst to see for sure if I could find some. None of the stores around here seem to carry it and AFAIK, only Remington may even be loading that weight bullet.
For the record, I have loaded and shot 220 gr. Sierra round nose bullets to 2310 FPS from my M70 with darn good accuracy. That's only 90 FPS slower than the advertised speed of factory 30-06 ammo. Hint: The powder was W760. If anyone wants the dope, ask for it and I'll pass it on. BTW, it is published data.
Paul B.

Don't worry,
This has only been going on since the 50s when the 308 showed up.
They should be getting close to an answer...

Then they can move on to the 270 vs 30.06 and world peace

All BS aside, you are correct...............dj

Since my "bikini-girls and Ginger-Mary Ann" crack didn't slow this thread much, I must admit to owning two .30-06's and two .308's, which pretty much shows where my allegiance lies.

I'd be very happy owning both at the same time.

I don't own either right now, but I still have about 500 pcs. of .30-06 brass squirreled away. Maybe I should start now scraping .308 brass off the range..

I think the 06 is way more than most people need.... and why push a 180 gr or even a 150 gr bullet when 130 's in a 270, 120 in 25-06 and 100 gr in 243 kill just as well? I think many are going smaller cause of price of powder , lead and brass. Had 3 06's, easy to reaload, brass everywhere but for deer it's crazy much.

Don't feel bad Mule Deer, I have 3-06's and 2-308's. Maybe there is a support group out there for 06 owners?

Not sure any of us would like to see Ginger or Mary Ann in a bakini at their current age. Just saying....

Doesn't look like this argument will ever be solved, so might as well start comparing the other calibers mentioned. I think hunting season needs to get here!

It ain't never not time for the bikini wimmen.

Well, I need to pick up another '06, need a donor action for a 6.5-06.

See, I told you it was better. Now this thread will go another 15 pages atleast....

SLM,

Thanks! Now we're really getting to the important stuff....

Several yrs ago I saw Mary Ann (Dawn Wells?) in person at a dinner theatre in Little Rock Ar. I did NOT want to see her in a bikini THEN....you draw your own conclusion now.

Oh, you had to ruin the good thing we had going here.....

Well at least we can still run on memory. Ginger was my favorite anyway.

The older I get, the less I care if women are 20-something!

Forty virgins don't sound like paradise to me either. ;-{>8

Simple.

The .30-06 is better than the .308.

The .308 is better than the .30-06.

Or in the immortal words of the great "Dizzy" Dean, "How much better Paul is than me, that's how much better I am than Paul."

I think you nailed it. The human analogy to the 308 and 30/06. It's obvious that Ginger is the '06 and Mary Ann the 308. No?

I'm with the OP. Especially using factory ammo, there is damn little difference. I own both, two 2 '06's and three '08's, and have taken almost all my game animals with one or the other - deer, elk, moose. I have never been able to tell the difference in terms of the game's reaction.

My 308's are shorter and lighter, so if there's a lot of hiking/climbing involved, they get the nod. If I'm going to do a lot of range shooting, again they get the nod, as the lesser recoil is appreciated on extended shoots.

...and Gilligan is the 270.

a vote for Mary Ann

� and another!

But not for shootin' deer!

Agree, that said, a 130 TTSX caused me to re-think 308, don't own one now...but would gladly use it.

To 400 yds, it about duplicates a 270/130 load mv and about as flat as a 260 or 7/08. That sd I prefer the smaller bore 6.5-08 but I recognize the versatility offered - again, esp. since the 130 not only shoots fast/flat, but will DIG DEEP like a lead core 165-180.

It's something to throw in the mix, though alot of guys are using 155s on deer. Neither will recoil bad.

Had an '06 for a short while but felt the recoil was the same as former 7 mags I had....these days I have enjoyed killing deer w/milder rounds i.e. 6BR and 260....good bullet, good shooting....makes for a dull knife.

I once wrote that the .308 pretty much duplicates the .270 Winchester with the same bullet weights at "normal" ranges, and got a ration of schidt from a bunch of guys on the Campfire.

Run the numbers and you may find out I was right. Better yet, go out and actually shoot some game.

And a .300 Savage beats 'em all!

I'd never argue or bet against you JB Long ago in college - the local rifle range owned ran by the Sheriff dept. had a deputy who was a 270 Fanatic, he for some reason had to borrow a rifle for a hunt.

He killed a deer w/a 308 and was impressed saying how it did more damage than his 270/130 loads....either round spells dead deer, but I am sure he killed his share w/his JOC fav, so I took notice to his report.

No doubt the 308 is a very efficient round w/good expansion ratio, giving very good speeds for it's capacity.

To normal ranges - i.e. 400 yds - about my self imposed limit for most hunting....nothing I would not do with one that I would not substitute another round.

Fun debating ballistics, but Good bullets thru Vitals as most here know trumps all. It really is where the rubber meats the road.

Whatever one uses, learn your rifle/load well and use good technique/trigger control/follow thru in the field and if long shots taken - know the drop/drift and range...all will be well.

yea maybe 7MM08 and 280 Rem

sorry, how is the 280 a better use of the parent case? the 7-08 i'll give you but the 280? perhaps the best or at least the most efficient use of the parent case is the 338-06.

Newer bullets(and some old ones) blur distinctions....We all have our favorites,but telling someone with steely eyed resolve that the 280 is inherently superior to a 30/06 (or a 270)as a BG cartridge is pretty delusional stuff.

That's quite a statement in reply to - "yea maybe 7MM08 and 280 Rem"

Read both posts that were quoted...I think you get the gist.

Thanks for the help anyway.

I read them both.

Still don't see (with steely eyes or red eyes) where you come up with this from their statements:

"but telling someone with steely eyed resolve that the 280 is inherently superior to a 30/06 (or a 270)as a BG cartridge is pretty delusional stuff. this comes from - "steely eyed resolve that the 280 is inherently superior"

Take a hike...

Thanks. I will later today.

Don't forget to carry your 30-06 with you.

Is it better than a .308?

The way to judge a man is by his offspring. Which of the two calibers gave the most and best sprouts.
Impartially yours
Lwr308

.30-03 Springfield

I can show you clear differences at long ranges for HP shooting
Over 500 yards .
The little bit of powder space in an '06 makes it a tiny bit flatter.
The 308 is a shorter round for a reason
Less ammo weight to lug.
NATO knew that less shooting would be done over 300 yrds.
And the shorter , lighter rounds would be better in the field.

Don't forget the higher cyclic rate in machineguns.

sigh!

I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me!

I can't decide either - so I'll take a longbow instead....unless a compound bow is better.

Shut up already, will ya? Jeez, I'm gonna have a breakdown with all these hard questions!

I don't know about "better", but I would rather shoot and kill game with my longbows than with my compounds. I have never lost an animal I shot with my longbows, but I have lost a couple shot with my compounds.

Both good cartridges. The 06 is better with heavier bullets (>150 gr.). They are closer as factory loads; it is easier to duplicate factory loads with the 30-06. The .308 is slightly more accurate, everythhing else being equal. My choice for hunting, not military or competition is the 30-06.

BobinNH, I am telling you right now, with steely eyed resolve, that the 280 is inherently superior to a 30/06 (or a 270)as a BG cartridge!!!!! And the 7mm Mashburn smokes em all... !!

LOL