I am building another .416 and I would like to know where the balance point is on the Selby gun. John if I remember correctly, you wrote that in handling it it felt more dynamic than the 9 1/4 lbs. it weighed. Is it muzzle heavy at all or does it balance at the forward receiver ring?

Thanks.

I didn't try to determine the balance point on the Selby rifle, so have no idea. My remodeled CZ 550 Magnum weighs just about exactly the same, and balances a little further forward.

I've always found balance references to the "hinge-pin" or "receiver ring" irrelevant. What may come closest to something meaningful is the distance from the middle of the trigger (or front trigger on 2-trigger guns), so that's what I do measure. On my CZ 416 it's 6-3/8".

Excellent point and the most practical method of checking balance by measurement.

I recently reread Layne Simpson's article in an old Rifle mag where he got to shoot Selby's rifle so I thought I'd throw this out there. In reference to balance he says he was impressed by the way it handled from the offhand position. The rifle had the between-hands balance and feel of a fine English side-by-side shotgun. Also says,the superb balance made the rifle feel much lighter than it's actual weight of 9 1/4 pounds. Others who handled the rifle gave guesstimates ranging between 6 and 8 pounds. Along with a few other words on the handling and superb sighting characteristics of the rifle he mentions "What a great stopping rifle it is!".
I forgot to mention that there also just happens to be a FINE article titled "Weight and Balance" by JB in the issue.

Layne's article included several errors, one of which was the estimates of its weight. I asked if there was a scale around to weigh the rifle, and there wasn't. Later in the day Layne handed the rifle to to me and I guessed "around nine pounds," but evidently he forgot that when writing the piece. I wasn't around when the others made their guesses. There were also some historical errors. Those were corrected by Selby in a later article.

I did show Joe my CZ .416 about three years ago, after explaining I wanted to duplicate the Selby rifle in weight and balance as much as possible. Joe liked it a lot!

The Rifle issue with your "Resuscitation of the .416 Rigby" article is also in my medium and big bore mag pile. I go through them a couple times a yr and reread them. GOOD pics of you handling and shooting the Selby rifle. That experience must of given you a wealth of info regarding how you needed modify your CZ. Evidently you got it right.

At least it works for me! Have used it on Cape and water buffalo some, both with and without scope, everywhere from too close thick stuff to 75 yards, and it's worked pretty darn well, even when I had to shoot more than once, quickly....

MD:

Any chance you can hang a pic of the remodel?

Wasn't that rifle built on an opened standard length M98 action?
Cheers...
Con

Thanks John. I have the Simpson article and another article by Selby on the gun. I also own/shoot English double guns quite a lot and have evolved a preference for a bit weight forward with a long feel to them meaning longer barrels and stocks and that is because, probably as you describe von Zowell, I am taller than I need to be.

I'll hang the gun on a boot lace and see what the balance point measures out to be.

Docbill:

Measure the balance points on all of your long guns, some rainy day.

It's worth knowing.

Con,

Yes, it was built on a standard 98 action. In fact that was one of the first things I noticed when the rifle was in my hands. It feeds slicker than snot, too!

Karnis,

For various reasons, I don't post photos on the Campfire, but you can see one view of the .416 CZ in the slide show on our website, www.riflesandrecipes.com. If you want to see some more, PM me your regular e-mail address.

It's really nothing fancy. I just eliminated the Bavarian humpack and cheekpiece of the buttstock, rasping down the hump until the comb was straight and the rifle came up with the express sights aligned perfectly for me. Oh, and I shortened the stock a little, so with a 1" Decelerator pad the LOP is 13-1/2". Then I cut off a couple-three inches of the forend, which was way too long, and re-rounded the tip with a cabinet-maker's rasp.

The spar varnish I use for stock finishing matched the CZ factory finish exactly, so I didn't have to completely refinish the stock or redo the checkering. The process took around 3/4 of a pound off the rifle.

Mostly I've used it with the express sights, but did mount one of the new 3x Leupolds for my Tanzanian hunt in September--and am glad I did, since my buffalo was standing in deep shade under some partly overhanging tree branches. Even at only 30 yards it was nice to be able to tell exactly where his shoulder was!

I am partial to Rem 700's because they seem to be in every pawn shop in this part of the word. For some reason the classic stock Remington made for a few years fits me better than anything in wood that I have found, so I have used them by preference. I also like the MPI Dakota 76 fiberglass because it has a straight comb and no cheek piece. They both fit me much like a good game gun, my only gripe is that I could use a little toe out but that is a minor thing.

When I have refinished guns I use a version of Slackum minus the wax and with multiple coats applied and removed really makes a lusterous in the wood finish.

John, you mods to the CZ look to have helped that gun.

Yeah, they helped both handling and looks. The wood is actually pretty nice, with some fiddleback in it, so I cut the factory finish down some with 0000 steel wool before putting on a very thin layer of spar varnish. The grain shows up better now.

With the 3x in Talley rings the rifle weighs 10 pounds on the nose, which isn't too much to pack in most African hunting.

I picked up a Nikon African 1-4x20 with the German #4 in a trade and will use it on this gun. Have you any experience with this scope?

Nope, but then I tend to put fixed-power scopes on just about all my rifles that kick harder than a .243 Winchester!

Yes I understand but the scope came with the gun. If it fails while working up loads and/or as a backup during travel I have an old little used 2.5x Weaver that needs a home. The old Weavers are tough as nails but not well sealed.

Yep!

A scope has failed on all but two of the trips I've taken to Africa, whether on my rifle or one of my hunting partner's rifles. On one of the trips where a scope didn't break, the three rifles my partner and I brought had only iron sights. ALL of the scopes that broke were variables.

I've never had a fixed-power scope break on safari, or any other hunting trip--though did have the reticle break on one fixed scope after a LOT of firing on various hard-kicked rifles. So I'm pretty much done dicking around with variables on anything bigger than a varmint rifle.

A side note from the workings of an idle (and probably defective) mind: does "Harry Selby 416" take on the tune of "Happy Birthday Sweet 16" for anyone else when they see it? I didn't think so.

Thanks a lot. Now that you pointed it out, I can't get it out of my head!

I like to share things like that when they annex large portions of my mind for extended periods of time. I once spent about two weeks with The Bobby Fuller Four's "I Fought the Law (and the Law Won)" occupying pretty much my complete mental capacity. You are welcome to that one as well.

Me too, Jon. And as a side note, since you gave me the "farmer tight" tutorial on ring screw torque, I have not had any more erratic grouping from fixed 4 and 6 power Leupolds. One more bonus is that if you find one at a gun show with reasonably unscratched glass, you can buy one for a song because EVERYBODY knows that you must have a BIG variable!!
Murf

Murf,

Thanks for your positive report!

I like those gun-show 4's and 6's myself....

Murf,
Even scratched up stuff is worth it ... we buy them here 'scruffed up' and return them to Leupold from Australia for refurbishment. Great company that supports their product like that ... and I second the sentiment ... straight 4x or 6x are fantastic hunting scopes.
Cheers...
Con

Docbill, I am in the process of purchasing a Ruger 416 Rigby. Are the old Weavers up to that application? I have a few: K3, K4, and V4.5. Would like to install the K4 on the Rigby and would like opinions on that move. Thanks.

I don't have much experience with REAL big bores and old Weavers. Finn Aggard used a 2.5 x Weaver on his .375 and as far as I can tell from his writing didn't have failures. The old Weavers weren't as well sealed as the Lupys so really soupy conditions might be problematic.

I also see low power Redfields occasionally at shows and buy them when reasonably priced. Ironsighter in Tulsa does repair on them starting at $80 and I have had a couple worked on.

The backup for both my .375 Ruger and the .416 Ruger I am building will be Weavers, 4 and 2.5 x respectively mounted in Warne tactical rings. I plan to shoot them in on the range off sticks before any trips.

The K2.5 on Finn's .375 is still doing great. I shot the rifle in Texas at a "charging" Cape buffalo target mounted on wheels, and Berit has used the rifle to take more than one buffalo of both the Cape and water varieties.

Berit and Finn must have made quite a pair. I loved his writings....

The K3 would be excellent on a 416 but I'm not sure it is long enough to fit on the big Ruger. We'll see when it arrives.

she isnt half bad with the written word either....

Big Redhead,

I used to use El Paso K3's quite a bit, and never found a rifle one wouldn't fit. They're very similar in length to the 3x Leupold.

Last summer I grenaded what appeared to be a mint, tight 1.5-4x Weaver I bought off the 'fire. IIRC it was around shot 15 from my Ruger 44 Carbine shooting 270's. Tube swallowed the objective lense. I have read that the old Ruger was known to beat scopes with that heavy bolt thumping to and fro.

Big Redhead, I do'nt have it on a 416 but I have a 2x7 Burris on my 358 win and it hold its zero with a death grip. I carried it to Alaska last year and it made it there and back(Alabama) with no change in zero--and that's including a wrecked gun case, compliments of ERA airlines. It's paralax corrected for shorter ranges but the critters you will be hunting with a 416, that should not be a problem. I have 3 Burris scopes and they all are a LOT tougher than El Paso Weavers. It is offered with 2 different reticles. As a side note, the Fullfield models fit the budget of even a cheap ass like me!!! I believe the 2x7 was designed to be a shotgun scope and they kick hard enough to drain your sinuses. Good luck.
Murf

Thanks for the tip Murf. I have one Burris scope - a Lightseeker 1-4x21 (IIRC) IER, and it might just work on the big Ruger. It has about 6-8 inches of eye relief at 4x and about infinite at 1x. I used it on my Marlin guide gun in a mount I designed that puts the ocular end just in front of the hammer spur. That way no extension is required on the hammer and it is almost impossible to crawl up the stock so far as to be hit in the forehead by even the stoutest loads. I made and sold a few on the old Marlintalk forum back in the day. I tried to find a pic to show but cannot. Maybe later.

The last Weavers were sealed better than early models. I Have an "all steel" 3X from about '73 and a 4X "Microtrac" from the late '70s that are still tight. I have two older 4X Weavers that had to be resealed. Mr. Ruiz did the work, not long before he retired and both are still holding. (Maybe he did better work than the original?)

As to the length of the 3x, it will span my pre-war Model 70, and there is not much new stuff out there that will work on it. About the same as the 3X Leupold. No shooting experience past .375 here (at least not enough to count) so no help there. Best wishes, jack

Well I just ordered some 400gr Hornadys and cases and dies. Loaded over about 90gr of H4350 for around 2400fps ought to teach me how stupid I am and test the El Paso 3x quite thoroughly.

murf205,

Not to dispute your results, but a .358 isn't anything near a .416 in recoil. And I've had a bunch of scopes take long plane trips without any problem.

That said, I've also had a 2-7x Burris FFII for quite a while on a .300 Weatherby, which is a BIG step up from a .358 Winchester, though a long ways from a .416. It worked fine.

But anything from a .375 H&H up will put a real hurting on scopes that any cartridge less won't.

I'll drink to that! I've shot both of them quite a bit and the 416 will make you wish for a 358. Bullet weight & velocity equal blured vision!
Murf

I have a 3 1/2" 10 ga. Ithica double that is very similar to the .416 in recoil when I shoot full up 2 oz. loads. There are certain locations/conditions in which I simply will not shoot the big 10 ga. This is a gun similar to Elmers that he used to kill ducks at 100 yds. I am not nearly that good.

The 10 ga. will give you a recoil headache from several boxes of full house in a day. I assume that is a brain bruise or mild concussion from the brain hitting the inside of the scull in recoil.