Wondering specifically about the 156gr 7mm Oryx, started at about 2700-2800fps. I seem to recall JB had some good experiences with it from a 7x57, but can't find the article, so I could be wrong. A friend is looking to load them and he's just wondering what to expect in terms of performance before shelling out for components and load development. They seem to be kinda soft but tough at the same time, so my thinking is penetration should be pretty excellent at those sorts of velocities from nothing out to 300 yards or so. Would this be right?

I don't understand why the Oryx is so revered while very little is heard of the Speer Mag-Tip. I know from experience the Mag-Tip is an excellent tough bullet, and they both have a blunt nose profile with full-length jacket.

Well I know that in this guy's case, he was planning to try it in Norma's factory load to see whether it was worth pursuing as a project, so the fact that it's available as such would make a difference. Also, we're over in Europe, where it's certainly a more visible presence than some of the other US bullet types. I do appreciate that it's unlikely one of a similar design is going to perform wildly differently to the other though.

Big Redhead,

The Oryx is revered because it's a bonded bullet, unlike the Mag-Tip, which is essentially a heavier jacketed Speer Hot-Cor. That's not a bad thing, but the Oryx is the closest approximation I've found of the original bonded bullet, the Bitterroot. It expands widely but retains enough weight (usually around 90%) to penetrate deeply. I've used it quite a bit from the 7x57 both here and in Africa, and it works very well, and is usually very accurate too. In fact in my custom Serengeti 7x57 it may be the most accurate bullet I've tried.

Brilliant. Thanks MD. He's planning on using it from a 7x64, trying the factory load, then planning to reload if the bullet shoots well enough to merit it. The factory claims about 2780 so it'll probably go somewhere between 2700 and 2800. Penetration should be pretty good at those velocities, right? He's thinking of Africa, with probably the likes of kudu and gemsbok at the top of his list, in terms of size.

Dave,

I did notice in some pictures of the Oryx I googled that there are some visible cuts or grooves in the nose that appear to be there to initiate expansion. There are no such cuts in the nose of the Mag-Tip that I can see. IME, the Mag-Tip does not appear to open as wide (or possibly as readily) as the softer Speer Hot Cor as determined by the size of exit holes in deer I have killed with both bullets. So possibly the Oryx opens wider (or more readily) than the Mag-Tip despite their similar appearance.

Dave,

It should work perfectly at that sort of velocity. I load it to about 2700 in my 7x57 and it has worked great. In South Africa I out one right in the center of a wildebeest's chest at 250 yards, and he went about 60-75 yards and keeled over, so they do penetrate pretty well!

Have also used the 180 Norma Oryx .30-06 factory load, and the bullets expanded well. Recovered one from a big mule deer shot at 360 yards. The bullet went in right behind the left shoulder as the buck angled slightly away, and broke the right shoulder, ending up under the hide. It had opened up widely and retained 85% of its weight, the least amount of weight retention of the few Oryxes I've recovered.

Got a 156 7mm back from a warthog that was angling toward me; it broke the right shoulder and spine, ended up under the skin at the rear of the ribcage on the left side. It also opened up wide and retained 93% of its weight.

Thanks MD. Those numbers sound great. Looks like it has to meet a whole lot of animal in order to not pass through! Should be fine for the game he's looking to shoot with it, which as I say tops out around kudu and gemsbok. He wants to avoid the 170-175gr and the 140gr and just go for one do-it-all load and that 156gr Oryx looks like it'll handle everything nicely.

Yeah, I wouldn't hesitate to use it on those animals.

Brilliant. Thanks. I think I'm still going to try convince him that that 140gr Accubond load would make a great round for the long shots in the hills on our smaller deer here too, but once the 156gr Oryx works on everything he'll probably be quite happy with that. Nice to have the simple life!

MD,

How does it compare to the 154 Interbond or 154 Interlock?

I was looking that way for my 7x57.

Broad expansion and high weight retention...Sounds like the only thing missing is high BC. I wonder what would happen if Norma poked a little hole in the front of the Oryx and inserted a plastic tip. And if the bonding is so good, why not taper the rear end too (boattail)?. I suggested that Swift put a plastic tip on their A-frame too but to date have not seen nor heard a thing. But they are the experts, not I.

To be honest, there are a lot of European manufacturers making and loading their own bullets and very few go in for high BC. Most shooting, certainly here, is done over a lot less than 300m, and within that range, the BC of the bullet doesn't matter a whole bunch. Running the numbers through a calculator, a 160gr Nosler Accubond at 2800, zeroed at 200 yards, has a 300 yard drop of 7.5". A 156gr Oryx from that Norma load at about 2780 has 8.9". The Accubond has a BC of .531 while the Oryx is only .330. Massive difference, but at that range, the difference in trajectory is negligible (I certainly can't hold tighter than 1.4" at 300 yards from field positions). At the ranges European hunting typically takes place, the sleek bullets for long range shooting just don't tend to give any advantage. I actually seem to remember hearing a law about 300m being a legally mandated maximum distance for shooting at game in France, but I could be totally wrong there. I know there are some French writers on here so perhaps they could correct me or confirm it.

I'm wondering the same. I've heard heard nearly universal praise for the 156 Oryx, but the 154 Interlocks shoot extremely well for me, & they're appreciably less expensive. My only trifling concern with the Interlock is less-than-stellar expansion at 7x57 speeds, and it sounds like the Oryx might outperform it in this area. However, I can't complain about having a perfect record of 1-shot kills.

I look forward to hearing from those who've poked game with both.

FC

More comment on the 180 gr .30 cal Oryx, I shot a lot of them in Africa from my .308 Win rifle. Held together, penetrated in a straight line, and only one per critter was required.

Oh yeah, and they were way cheaper than the competition in Norma ammunition (but I recall that was a close-out at Graffs).

jim

Hi Dave,

All you wrote can be considered as very good and clear, what John Barnsness wrote too.
The Oryx is not the sleekest bullet in town but they generaly shoot very well, expand and penetrate deep. They were also designed to preserve meat, because in Scandinavia meat is sold in marts and butcher shops or, as in US of A, goes into the hunter's fridge.

Since the introduction of the Oryx in 2000 i have killed and saw game being killed by the hundreds, from zero to more than 300 meters.
When the shooter had done it good (me too) game was cleanly but not spectacullary killed. If you want 'spectacle" go to Vulkan!

In 7mm, Oryx was first made in 170grs. With it my biggest game was a 400kg moose and tens of red deer does, wild boars, roe deers and corsican ram. They never failed (as all bullets i used, i failed sometimes). Then they came in 156grs to be available today in both weight.

I thing they can be a good alternative to other bullets. If the rifle shoot them well and they are not too extensive why not! Even, if in USA, you get more choice than us (not too much for bullets).

About max shooting distance in France (Germany too): 300 meters is not the maximum legally allowed. It's the maximum distance you can use preselected scope or rear sight compensation. You can use mildot if you know about and shoot 500 meters, but not to encourage wannabee snipers and untrained hunters send lead and copper to game, it's forbidden to use system like CDS with more than 300 meters graduations.
Most of our hunting organisations don't communicate on such thing because they believe (rightly so) that most hunters are unable to read and dope wind and use a right tool for long range hunting. Then it's also not too "politicaly correct" in most hunting circles.
We dont have same firearm culture than US of A. I have, and some friends too, shot farther than that but, being mostly hunter i like to stalk and get close and closer if i can.
So i try to keep distances inside 300m most of time, even if i miss some opportunities when my stalking fail....

Have good week end
Dom

I like the 156 in the 7x57 and use several other Oryx weights/calibers. My favorite bullet if not going warp speed.

fyshbum,

I've killed a pile of game with the Interlock, and it's a darn good bullet, very accurate and providing enough penetration for normal shots. But it doesn't retain weight or penetrate like the Interbond.

The Interbond, however, has never shot all that accurately for me in any rifle, and I've heard the same from several other people. There's nothing wrong with 1-1/2" to 2" groups for most hunting, but the plastic tip and boattail seem kind of wasted without the accuracy.

The Interbond's on-game performance is very similar to the Oryx. I killed several pigs with the 165 from a .30-06 last year in Texas, and only recovered one, from big sow that was angling away. The bullet was found under the hide of the far shoulder, well-expanded and retaining 86% of its weight.

But the Oryx has shot so accurately in severa rifles that I don't pick the Interbond much, and as I noted earlier, it's worked great out to close to 400 yards--and that was a 180 from a .30-06, at the standard 2700 fps. So I don't worry about the ballistic coefficient very much.

Norma says that their 7x57 has a muzzle velocity of 2641 feet per second with a 156 grain Oryx bullet. Has anyone chronographed this? I'm curious if that's a true muzzle velocity out of a hunting rifle barrel.

Yeah, it is. In fact the Norma factory load gets about that from the 21" barrel of my rifle, no doubt due to the custom chamber with a little shorter throat.

Mule Deer,

Regarding Norna factory ammo. What are your thoughts on the 7x57 156 grain Oryx versus shooting the 270 Winchester using 150 grain Oryx or 156 grain Vulkan? Would you expect to see much difference on Game?

idahoguy101

The biggest difference would be between the two Oryx loads and the Vulkan.

The Vulkan is a relatively rapid-expanding bullet that fragments more than the Oryx.

John,

Would you compare the 156 grain 7x57 versus the 150 grain 270 Winchester this way.

Both using Oryx bullets. Aside from a flatter trajectory past 200 yds would the faster velocity of the 270 translate into any advantage in hunting big game?

idahoguy101

Based on a sample size of ONE, I would say yes.

I was chronographing some handloads at the range, and a guy asked if he could measure one of his factory loads. He had never seen a chronograph and was fascinated, so of course I said yes. However, I have seen too many chronographs get shot, so I did the shooting!

The rifle was a Brno ZG-47 and the barrel still wore the factory front sight so it had not been shortened. However, I do not know what the factory barrel length on these was. Maybe somebody here will know.

Anyway, I recall that the load exceeded the velocity printed on the box by a trivial amount (maybe 30 fps).

Norma does not seem to be afraid of lawyers -- all their ammo normally hits their advertized velocities in my experience (here in Sweden). I presume the exact same ammo is exported to the US since the box this guy had listed the velocity in both metric and the American system of measurement.

Cheers,

John

"A friend is looking to load them and he's just wondering what to expect in terms of performance..."

I think he can expect dead critters!

I loaded the 156gr Oryx to a sedate 2400fps in my wife's 7mm-08. Makes for a nice mild recoiling load. We shared the rifle and killed 2 oryx, 2 springbok, a warthog, common reedbuck, and nyala. No recovered bullets(all pass throughs), and no lost critters. Great accuracy. Also drives nails in my 7x65R drilling, and will now be the go to bullet in that gun.

Jeff

I figured dead critters myself, just wanted to make sure it wouldn't open up so much as to slow it down and retard penetration. Sounds like it's going to be anything but an issue though! Looking forward to seeing how this goes now.

So far, the only Oryx I've recovered, is a 232gr out of my 9.3x74R. And it travelled diagonally through a caribou, broke bones, passed through a belly full of lichens, and stopped in the hind quarter(damn near exited). I like 'em!

Jeff

MD,

Thanks on that. I have been using the 139 Hornady's over H4350 and getting great results both on paper and on deer, just not as great on angled shots on larger hogs. Was looking to move up a little in weight but not all the way to the 175's to keep some velocity up. Sounds like this Oryx might be the right next step. I might of missed it, but what powder are you using with it in your 7x57?

FB

H4350.

My rifle has a custom throat that's shorter than most, and 46.0 grains gets close to 2700 fps, even from the 21" barrel.

That dog will hunt!!

Thanks again.

Reckon you might could post a photo of said projectile?

I chose the same. I prefer the 150's in all my 280's & 7 Wby's. It's a perfect do-all bullet weight for me.

I have to say, from talking about it here and thinking about it, for the most part, 300 yards is a pretty respectable limit in Ireland. You won't find a load of shots over that, and the 156gr Oryx seems about as flat shooting as is practically useful at that range. Add what sounds like brilliant on-game performance (Never seen an Oryx on game, so can't comment first hand) and it's starting to sound like a very sensible option indeed.

Another option I might mention to him would be a 160 Accubond. Should make 2800 comfortably enough from the 7x64. He wouldn't be able to try it in a factory load though, which might bother him, but I can mention it anyway. That sounds like another do it all, every day, everywhere sort of load.

I shot a big ( 7') black bear with a .30-06 180 gr. Norma Oryx factory load last fall. Shot was close, about 70 yds. and bear was coming face on and climbing a beaver dam. bullet penetrated the chest from the front, breaking a rib on the way in, crossed the chest lengthwise and ended up in the backbone mid-back. about two feet of penetration. Retained weight was 178 grains. Expansion was 0.58" x 0.83" and expansion stopped right at the cannelure. I could not have been more satisfied.

I've always been intrigued by Norma bullets, but have never purchased any due to the price. Are any of them that much superior to other bullets costing less?

I like them. Shoot well, kill well. Truth is, I still feel better with the bonded or mono approach with critters. Bullets is the cheap part.

Hmm. Maybe you're comparing the per-box price--and Oryx's come in 100-bullet boxes, not 50 like most American premiums. Here are some 50-bullet prices, from the Midway website, comparing 6.5mm and .338 bullets:

Nosler AccuBond: 23.49/39.99
Nosler Partition: 34.99/50.99
Barnes Tipped TSX: 33.99/42.99
Norma Oryx: 28.99/39.99

John, the 50 to 100 count is a good point on the Premiums. I was looking more at the "traditional" bullets than the Oryx, which I should have specified. Looking at my Graf's catalog for "standard" 180 grain .308s, I see this: (with the 2 Remington "Premiums" thrown in for the fun of it).
Alaska $51.59
Vulkan $55.59
ProHunter $25.69
GameKing $29.99
Remington PSPCL 29.99
UltraBonded CL 19.99 (X2 39.98)
AccuTip $20.99 (X2 $41.98)
Speer SP $24.99
Speer DeepCurl $26.99
PowerPoint $31.99 (people must be catching on to this one if price rise is an indicator of demand)
Hornady SP $26.19

Reloder28,

I don't post photos on the Campfire, mostly because I'd then spend too much time posting photos on the Campfire.

It's alright. Thank you for the considerate response.