Didn't want to post this in the Hunter's Campfire section, place is nuts.

Just got to school, thinking I had a spot on a golf team. Tryouts come, I play like a 20 handicapper, and I got cut. After thinking I was going to have a super year and be great, I get fcking cut.

Needless to say, I'm a little bit lost at this point. I plan on staying in school, but to do what. Rifles and hunting interest me more than anything in the world, way more so than golf. Maybe it was a sign that I need to do something pertaining to those things?

Gunsmith? Gunwriter? Guide? Outfitter? Just need some guidance at this point...

Tanner

"It's about the journey, not the end."

You are young. You have a long journey in front of you. You have plenty of time to figure it out.

There are many different paths to take and many different things to try. Get an education and it will open up different paths.

I haven't told you anything. Just keep an open mind and you will work it out.

Dave

Learn everything you can about anything at all. That is what school is really about. Be surprised at the stuff you use in life, knowledge helps mold you, gives you the basis to build and grow into your ultimate vocation.

If you can't see that, well, party on.

If it's your dream never give up..Maybe your better off without them.Thats the only way to look at it

Tanner: Stick it out for one semester or a year. Then transfer to a fun school like UNC or CSU. You don't even have to pick your major yet, that pretty much comes in year two.

Remember, college just isn't about a job at the end, it is a life experience. I miss those days. You can always get out of school and still become a gunsmith.

PS. nobody should be expected to make a career choice at 18. Things will change so fast during the next ten years that it is impossible to predict.

Tanner, these words have carried me farther than I ever thought possible; "The thing to do is try. Failure is of no importance. Giving up however is another matter". Not my words, but the wisdom in those words has helped me reach many pinnacles in my life.

Tanner,

I have tried to operate on the philosophy that when one door closes another opens. Right now your looking for a direction.
I think staying in school is the best option now, evaluate it after the first year is completed. You may find other opportunities arise that will surprise you.

Tanner, I'll give you a little hint about hunting and guns. Really really hard to make a living doing "it." Guys like scenarshooter live my dream. The other way to make it happen is get a sweet paying job, with lots of time off then you can afford to hunt as much as you want.

I have friends that are taxidermists and gunsmiths and they seldom have time to do anything fun like shoot or actually go hunting.

Stick with college for a while. By the time I went it was just for learning stuff, and though my original goal (the world's greatest flyfishing writer) didn't turn out exactly that way, I learned stuff that became useful in many different ways, including chemistry, geology, various kinds of biology and even philosophy. Perhaps the most good it did was teaching me how to research and experiment.

One nice thing about being a gun writer is that anybody can try it in their spare time. With computers and digital cameras the writing and photography is a lot easier (and cheaper) these days, though the market is also more competitive, because most magazines don't use nearly as much freelance writing, depending almost exclusively on staff writers. But staff writers have to come from somewhere....

Becoming a gunsmith generally requires as much work as going to college, but there is a lack of good general gunsmiths these days, and apparently an unending demand for custom work.

Do some guiding if that interests you at all. I did some in the 80's mostly to see what it was all about, and learned a lot, even though I was never interested in doing it full-time. It would give you a lot of insight into what being a guide or outfitter is actually all about.

Tanner to add to MD's post, get a variety of experiences, use the time to figure out what you really want to do. But most importantly, learn how to learn. When your interestes change, as they will over time, if you know how to learn you can maximize the benefit of changing interests.

Also, don't be afraid of feeling lost right now. Heck, I'm 43 and am still trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up, but along the way, I've had a lot of great times, and figured out a lot of things I don't want to do. As well as many that I do want to do more of.

Tanner, you need to worry less about golf, and more about where you are going to get beer, and how you are going to charm the pants off that hot chick in class.

Tanner, give school a try. School taught me a few things I was good at and a whole lot about things I can't do so well. Learning about my weaknesses has been at least as valuable as learning about my strenghts. Good luck to you.

[quote=Tanner].... and I got cut...
[/quote

That's OK...a disapointment but it's still OK.

Part of relishing winning or success is knowing what it's like to "lose" or be unsuccessful. There are no great winners who did not suffer a setback along the way.

Time to Cowboy Up!

Get your education,and don't let a minor setback throw you off course. Once you have the education, no one can take it away from you.It's yours and you may not be able to see the relevance of it now,but you will as you grow and mature.It will expand your options,enhance your social network and expose you to other thoughts and ideas about where you want your life and career to go.

Don't listen to all the shidt you get fed there, learn to be selective and distinguish between the good and bad; both exist in higher education,which is why they call it "education"; and try to focus on something that makes you employable,or preps for grad school in a chosen field.

Maybe in the end school may not be for you,and if that's the case you will figure it out.....but I have seen lots of young people flounder around,foregoing the educational opportunity while they figured themselves out and what they wanted to do. Stay focused.

You may be too young now to know exactly what you want to do;so you might as well make yourself smarter while you're figuring it all out

gunsmith, guide, gunwriter are all admirable professions, but even they need an education.
Buckle down, get the knowledge you will need, and then make that life career choice.

+1 on the stay in school. What classes were you going to take if you made the golf team?

I agree with JB that classes in geology, biology, etc can provide a strong base for a life time of learning. Take a variety of classes and get a variety of summer jobs to expose yourself to the job market.

Talk to bunch of different folks about what kind of careers are out there. Do you want to make a livng in the hook and bullet world or do you want to leave it as a passion and a pass time?

What kind of jobs will allow you to have the income and free time to pursue the outdoor life? Do these jobs have appeal for you? How do you get into those jobs?

Take the time being cut has given you to figure schit out then you can make a plan for your life, and as I have told my kids "as long as you are going somewhere you will end up somewhere"



Just my 2 cents. GRF

BobinNH well said. GRF

My youngest son's best friend just went through that dilemma coming from a heavy history of hunting and the outdoors.He just chose to be a guide in Colorado somewhere.Life is to short to miss out on what we all love....

I chose logging to be in the outdoors 24/7..Could have made more money doing other stuff but it was well worth it for what I learned that I thought I knew.It ain't the same reading about it,doing it is what counts.

Jayco

Well Tanner, I know you're disappointed. However, you learn a lot about yourself when you get knocked down. Just remember you have to get back up every time you get knocked down because you'll get knocked on your ass a bunch. No shame in that. Winners figure out how to win because they know no other way but to keep getting back up. I have no doubt you have the makeup of a winner. Everyone has a purpose in life. I'd do some praying an searching and figure out yours. Like most have said, I'd stay in school.

I�ll tell you what, the one person I know that hunts more than any other 5 people combined is a commercial airline pilot. Not only does he make a ton of money, he gets a ton of time off. In addition, he flys everywhere for free.

Get a pilots license and a 4 year degree.

Great advice given by all.

I'll just add one thing.

STAY IN SCHOOL!

That degree will open a lot of doors that may otherwise stay closed, especially in this day and time.

Maybe try a little guiding, writing or gunsmithing in your spare time. (Tip: Always work on your pop's or brothers guns when learning to smith, never your own. )

Keep a sense of humor about yourself and life in general, even when disappointments arrive at your doorstep.

Like Scenar said, don't be discouraged by failure, we all get a taste of it, but don't let it have the final word on your goals.

Best of luck to you Tanner.

JM

Tanner, I have a degree and do taxidermy as a side business. It funds all my hunting toys. I did it fulltime for awhile and got really burned out. Stay in college.

Tanner you've already been given some great advice and it has come from personal experience. I whole
heartedly agree.

Remember this, someone said recently, "the best way to kill the joy in what you love, is to make a profession of it."

Certainly there have been exceptions to that but more times than not it turns out that way.

Generally....the carpenter never get HIS house built.
the plumber never get HIS leaks fixed, etc,etc.

Don't get in a rush.

Jerry

Tanner,

Go live with Poohbah for awhile.

You'll get to play with dogs, look at his pretty wife and you can work on his guns because he's old and can't shoot straight anyway.

Of course, you will have to listen to all the stories about the African Safaris he took in the late 1800's.

Start, by following your inner conviction.

this will set you on your way. then, as you travel your path day by day, things will come your way that will "feel right", and you move with it--like sound and echo, with no thought to "which way is the perfect way or direction".

our lives are much like creating a work of art (composition): we start with a thought or idea and move towards physically creating it--at times the original idea is lost and we move it in a new direction, capitalizing on a "happy accident" that occurs, or unexpectedly comes our way within the work. it is important to "stand back" and let the medium do some of the work--too much "control" results in dead compositions--killing the life they once had.

again, perhaps like going to a party or gathering; if we go thinking that we are going to "have a perfect time"--we may very well be disappointed. but if we go with no great expectation, and yet are "open," without preconceptions--having nary a notion of a "perfect time"--the experience will unfold with a life of its own...

Unless you're going to college on an athletic scholarship that pays a large percentage of your tuition and fees, you've got your focus all wrong. College is just a vehicle for preparing yourself for a post-collegate career, which for the vast majority of athletes isn't in professional athletics. Failing to make the golf team may be the best thing that ever happened to you, professionally and practically speaking. I don't know what year of college you're in, or what your study major is, but now is the time to get great grades and find summer internships with major organizations in your field of interest, so that you will have something meaningful to put on your 1st resume. College is a means toward an end, not a destination.

Jeff

"I plan on staying in school, but to do what?"

Tanner,
Obviously, golf was not the reason you were going to college, right? Will not being on the golf team maybe give you the time to experience more of the hunting/shooting interests that hold your attention right now? Many folks don't even get to attend college, it can be a great opportunity.

During my college years, I had similar disappointments come my way, three of them as a matter of fact. One instance, well, I'll never know if it was for the worse or better. In the other two I didn't get what I thought I "already had" or "deserved" and as it turned out, my life ended up so much better because of the changes I was "forced" to make.

One of my most prized possessions is a letter (postcard really) from Jack O'Connor (yea, THAT Jack O'Connor); a handwritten response to my adolescent inquires. He wrote that I'd be nuts to try & become a hunting guide cause they make almost no money; and that I wouldn't be much better off making a career out of becoming an "outdoor writer" either.
Point is, you're not alone in the asking. And I'm not a writer or a guide (well, not YET anyway).
You've got the same thing here, advice from a highly successful writer (Mule Deer / John Barsness), whom I would put up against O'Connor anytime (and I even know John :)). I'd take his advice.

Give college a try. Summer or parttime jobs maybe? Forest Service, BLM, local gun shop or fishing store. Poke your head through every doorway you can. (Except in the women's dorm......them wimmins be BADDDD for you!).
It's all about the experience sir, and best a'luck to ya!

Chuck

That would not hold snot here in Central Idaho other than the money part.The locals hunt every day of every season before and after work with hunting being just around town quicker than most could drive to Wal-Mart.

An education is important but after spending that several thousand dollars to be educated and borrowing the money as most do,what is waiting in the real world and where?

All you have to do is watch the news to see people with bachelor degree's in line for a job at McDonald's or Wal-Mart.

It sure isn't like it used to be.

Jayco

Thanks all for your input, I value and respect everybody's time and advice more than you would ever know.

Maybe getting cut was the best thing that'll ever happen to me. I sure as heck was a little bit different kid than the rest of those golfer kids, they're a pretty spoiled and sheltered bunch.

I'm sure that learning and living will open up a door for me sometime soon.

I need to ask Pat how I get to the point where I hunt and trap for a livin', and if he needs an assistant

Getting the pants off hasn't proven to be a challenge in my first week... whoops.

Tanner,

I recommend that you stay in school and get your degree. As my Grandmother once told me, "You can get a degree and still be a farmer, hunting guide or mechanic, but, the hunting guide without a degree is not going to get hired for jobs that require one".

Having a degree gives you more options and usually more earning potential in the long run.

Where I work, the only job you can get without a four year degree is the receptionist.

Chet

I had planned to be a career Army officer, but when the USA decided that I was going to be sent to Europe for 5 years, no choice, no alternative, I requested a release from active duty, got an MBA, finished my ROTC commitment, and got on with my life. Clearly the best "bad break" that I ever got.

Jeff

You have a good point there Logcutter, but there are still good opportunities in some surprisingly small towns out there. That is actually why I chose to work where I do. We have offices located in little rural towns throughout the country and have locations in Salmon, Council, Cascade, Grangeville, Nez Pierce, Lewiston, Orofino, Moscow, Plummer, etc. The guy that runs our office in Grangeville makes $90,000 a year plus a benefit package that equals 30% of his base salary. He gets five weeks of paid vacation, comp time over 40 hours per week and can still hunt in the mornings an evenings as you described. You do need a four year degree to get the job, but you don't need an expensive degree from Harvard. A good state school will do just fine and only cost about $6,000 a year.

Heck, Tanner will probably spend that much on beer and bullets this year.

Now, if you get a degree in Art History....you are on your own.

If you are interested, Tanner, let me know. We have internship programs where you can work part time during the school year and full time in the summer. When you graduate, we give you a full time job.

Chet

First, get a degree
Second, get really serious about grades...be in the very top of your class
Third, learn to do something that will make money for you
Fourth, get something that will allow you to move around the world like engineering or pharmacy or medicine
Fifth, check out Namibia....there are some great places in the pacific like NZ
Sixth, be very selective who you reproduce with
Seventh, be very careful who you wed
Eighth, spend less than you earn and invest the rest
Ninth, you only need two or three big game rifles
Tenth, keep this shooting hobby under control until you do the first eight and then you can do whatever you wish.
Last, health is the first wealth!

Rick,

Sounds like a story there?

Chet

Chet,
I see disasters in my office daily. Hard to keep the weinix under control and under wraps, if you get my drift.

Ha! I'll bet you see some doozies in your line of work.

Chet

Tanner:

1. Decide where you want to live.

2. Decide what you have to do to make a living in that place.

3. Declare a major as soon as possible in a field that will get you to that place, and take summer courses until you're done.

How are you with math and physics?

Well Tanner, if I was starting college today the first thing I'd do is get a video camera. There is plenty of time for guns but whilst young you should take advantage of all the young ladies and get an education to boot.


Enjoy!

What he said...plus beer.

Tanner listen to these guys as I can about promise you that in the future not having a degree will make your life 3x as difficult as not having one. I don't know where you were expecting golf to take you a scholarship to offset tuition etc or if you think you might have had a chance at the tour but truth is that the jump from HS to college is an about 1 in 1000 chance and then jumping from college to pro is even slimmer. As to being interested in hunting and guns I share your interest but the hard truth is that limited seasons and the expense of traveling to hunt make it mostly a pipe dream for most guys especially if you throw a family into the equation. Look around you and note the adults you know and think would I want to go to work with them everyday. Look at the guys that you think have it made with plenty of time off. What careers are they in that allows them flexible schedules. College may not be the only answer. I have to say that a good technical skill such as radiology tech or even a RN is probably better than a liberal arts degree. A lot of these careers also allow a lot flex scheduling. Maybe a career in wildlife management would suit you. Think about it and just look around at different career paths and something will come to you. The golf part while sweet will always be a game you can enjoy when hunting season is closed.

Slightly better than retarded. After about the 5th concussion my math skills hit the crapper pretty badly, and that is not even a joke...

You musta done some rodeo besides golf...

Believe it or not this kind of activity is kinda' hazardous to your health...

Ohhhhh.....you still got shoulders that work?

My opinion, for what it's worth...most eighteen year olds that go straight to college from high school waste a lot of their time and a lot of their parents' money because they don't know enough to learn much, they have no life experience to tie the learning down with so it doesn't take...case in point: you're concerned about the golf team...drop out, join the Marines or Navy, put in four years, learn something useful, get to see a lot of occupations and talk to a lot of people, go back to get an education when you appreciate it (and Uncle Sam will pay for a lot of it.) You'll find college a cake walk by then, you'll do better and you'll get all the best girls because you'll look like a man with some life behind him next to all the little, wet behind the ears pups that have never been anywhere or done anything and agonize over things like the golf team...just my $.02

Lotta truth to this one... truth be told, I would be a lot better off if I would have spent four years learning some self-discipline...

I was going to suggest civil engineering as a respected profession that is needed almost everywhere, pays well, and has the potential to get you outside of the office while still billing hours. But never mind.

I know it's hard when you are young and impatient, but there's always next year.

Maybe the Armed Forces ain't a bad idea... I'm in really good physical shape... need someone to pay for college ( ), don't mind being yelled at, I love the country I live in, and I there's more ammo than I'd know what to do with... hmmm.

Tanner, sorry about the golf. I didn't really see you fitting in with a bunch of golfers anyway.

Stay in school. I quit when I was 16 to go to work to help my mom. The next 12 years were a struggle. But now at 36 with a lot of hard work behind me, I haven't found to many things in life that I can not do. Other than type with more than two fingers.

2 years ago I found out that thru hard work, honesty, and determination. The more life kicks you in the balls the better the rewards in the end. There is only 2 things in this world that matter.

My hunting partner and his momma

Hang in there Tanner. Stay in school while you're young if you can. It gets real hard to go back IME. Try to learn something from every class. Take advantage of all the resources available on campus. Protect yourself - hint - enjoy.

Tanner,

I'm a few years ahead of you, and I've been through the same journey. I definitely agree with all of the advice that has been given in this thread, but I'll add a few points of my own:

- I have started a few of my own businesses. The quote above was absolutely true for me. Cars and hunting/guns were my passions. Then I started a high-performance car business. Now hunting and guns are my passions

- Try as many different jobs that you think you might be interested in as possible. This is been the biggest asset for me in determining what I want to do, and what I don't want to do

- Take lots of different courses that you think you might be interested in. My university career changed directions a couple of different times, and while I was in the thick of it I didn't much value many of those classes. But looking back, I cherish the knowledge that I gained along the way, even from the courses that I didn't enjoy at the time, or that I didn't think were relevant to my future career

- Don't stress. You've got plenty of time, and you'll figure it out

Tanner,

[bleep] happens, no matter what path you take.

As far as higher education, don't waste your time!

Don't waste your time getting your degree...

Don't waste your time with degree's that won't pay...

Again, thank you all for the words of advice and taking time to offer them. The more I think on it, the more I believe that perhaps missing a spot on the team was a blessing in disguise. There are so many opportunities out there for those that work hard and dedicate themselves, so worrying isn't something that I need to be doing.

Now if I could just figure out how to make money setting up rifles and hunting...

Army. Sniper School.


hint...

If I did anything Military, I'd be trying to go into the Rangers...

Maybe I should just get a Pushfeed 7x57, 1-4 Loopy, a box of 175 Partitions, and go to ingwe Sniper School...

You are wise beyond your years...except its a Leupy 1.5-5....

Im starting school Monday...hows it going for you?

Well, math is just peachy already. I'm taking 4 classes of possibly the most boring schit ever concocted, but I'm done before noon every day. The females have proven to be more entertaining, however...

Prerequisites.....

Please elaborate.

Did I say PROTECTION and that is not a 38 snubbie!

Well. I don't know how to do it, is the thing. Want to see one of the problems from a lab, and tell me if you can solve my issue? It's probably a breeze for someone with a healthy frontal lobe.

I wouldn't mind looking at it, but know in advance I won't solve it for you. If I can construct a hint that doesn't make the solution too obvious, I might give that up.

Sent ya a PM mathman, thanks a lot.

Excellent stuff RinB

Dober

Tanner,

The greatest learning experience in my life was the four years I spent travelling the World in the USN.
Stay in school and try to get into a Learning Abroad program. Maybe Europe but maybe Japan or someplace in Asia. Even South Africa. During that time abroad stay out of the bars and tourist traps and go experience the culture firsthand. Travel to nearby Countries and soak it all up.
I can almost guarantee that you'll gain invaluable knowledge and a great appreciation for the wonderful US of A.

Even joining the USN would be good but be sure that you pick a rate that doesn't put you on a carrier or a submarine.

1. Is that you?

2. Are those CASTS on the legs?

I should probably reveal that I quit college halfway through, though I did qualify for a 2-year "associate degree," which with 5 bucks buys a latte at Starbucks.

I quit, however, when it came down to finishing a paper on the parallels between the history of Yellowstone Park and wildlife management in America, and being paid to write my first book. I took the money.

Must also admit that since the U. of Montana was on the quarter system, I skipped fall to hunt, went full-time in winter, and half-time in spring, when fishing started. So my two years of credits took four years. Also, I went back for a couple quarters a few years later, taking creative writing long after I'd sold a bunch of stories plus my first book. Imet my wife in the first class, who helped enormously in so many ways.

Life ain't all simple or structured, or smarts.

Yes, it's me, and no, they're just really brightly colored pants!

Couple mo thoughts, kick back relax a bit about it (I know that's tough) and take some time off your game.

Hit the books, then get back to your game b4 the serious white comes and hang out at Dr Dans a bit....grin

If you seriously want to play golf in college don't let this stop you. I played point guard in college and it was one of the best times of my life.

It aint over till you win.

Dober

Trust me Tanner, the time will come that the only way you can get an 18 year old and her friend is with a fistful of $50's....


Military ain't a bad start but I'd stick it out for a bit now. I quite college to join the military. Things are new and scary as an 'adult' and it don't get easier but if you have a head on your shoulders, and you do, it does get better.

Tanner your half way there now. couple of years back we had a young guy interning in our office with a Civil Eng major, he was sharp and a good golfer also. played althrough HS passed on the chance to play on the U team on purpose,he loved golf but couldn't see where it would get him. So he went to school and interned in the summer,the boss was a golfer through college so he got along good enuf to get 9 hrs a day in and off at noon on friday . He would then hit one of the local courses where the rich old guys who thought they were golfers hung out and get in a skins game with them. He made more money on friday afternoons than working the rest of the week but he was really good at it too. Thing was he said to me playing golf on the U team would have ate all his spare time and left him little time for studying with a serious major in mind.He made his choice about not playing and moved on to being the player. Now you need to move on a little and look at other possibilities, best of luck . Magnum man

My life has made so many left turns that I'm still surprised the sun rises in the east.

I'd not want it any other way either.

Join the Marines. If you pick the right MOS, you will get plenty of time with guns. You will also make the best friends you will ever have in your life. If you do that for a few years and decide you don't like it, get out and get paid to go to school. You will be old enough and experienced enough in life to appreciate how nice college really is. You also will have had some time to think about what you want to do with your life. OTOH, if you do decide to go to school after an enlistment, you won't be too damn old to fit in.

This is the best advice I could give any able bodied, cognizant young man.

Finish, finish, finish...it's a lot harder with wife,kids,mortgage, and a full time job. Believe me. You're already there and will be exposed to a ton of resources that will help you decide your direction. Your job will most likely change several times throughout your career. Graduate with something that the other kiddos don't have and gain an edge. A single fella can take a slew of risks. A married man generally takes what he gets. An in debt married man takes it in the azz. An in debt married man with kids takes them to Disney World and gets it in the azz from Mickey Mouse.

Moral of the story? Bang a rich Cinderella and put a ring on her finger.......

Tanner,
The choice is obvious, you live in Colorado and love guns.....you are in the wrong school !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ever heard of Speedy Gonzales ?????? he teaches gunsmithing in Trinidad you ought to at least check it out.

Dr. Dowling had told me to look into Speedy's program, said it was a real good spot.

The sad part is, and I may get shunned for this, is that I turned down a golf scholarship from Trinidad St, too.

Also, for me at least, how to sleep through anything..

Tanner, stick to school, remember it's an EDUCATION, not job training.

Just turned 35 and I'm still not quite sure what the hell to do!

"Going nowhere is a privilege of youth"..

Going to the field right now, later!

I'm leaving to do some scouting up in the crazies in a bit..

Doing a job now down near Alder, and might have some fun there this season, too!

Tanner,

I can't add much to what's been said, some good and bad. However, I would add that if you decide it's important to you to stay in college AND it's important to you to have assistance paying for it you might also talk to the ROTC detachment at the college/university. Or you could transfer to another ROTC detachment.

I will say I did it the wrong way, as I went to college and worked full time to keep the bills down, and then commissioned, instead of letting the USAF help me pay for college. Long story about recruiters and the stupid stuff they tell our nation's youth. Anyway, if you're considering serving to help pay the bills, I would look into it at a minimum.

Good luck with the decision.
v/r
Joel

Does that mean in a few minutes you'll be (out)standing in your field?

Tanner, trust me, there are a whole bunch of young people walking around the campus wondering what they are doing. Many will bail at semester, flunk out or party out. The attrition rate is very high for freshman.

My nephew bailed his first semester 5 years ago and got a seasonal job for the Dept. of Lands fighting fire. He now is up to an eight month position. The same guys he started college with are coming back to the Department with degrees making more money and working fulltime. He is wishing he would have stuck it out now.

Stick it out and keep going to school at least somehwere learning some sort of occupation or skill. As you progress through classes things will start to take shape and a career that you previously had never thought about might grab hold of you.

To do some of the things you mentioned, having some education will help tremendously. Writing at the college level for gunwriter career, marketing and business for outfitting, science-based and history classes will make you a better guide, math for gunsmithing.

Life is right ahead don't set yourself up for low pay and a job where you are worn out by age 50

If you are really considering this as an option, PM me.

Or GFY. I'm cool either way.


Travis

Unless you're absolutely certain that college is wrong for you, stay put. People will talk about leaving and coming back later, but it VERY RARELY happens. Life unfolds very quickly when you get out into the world. College is a time to explore a wide range of opportunities that you will not otherwise have access to. I'll say that again. College is the time to explore a wide range of opportunities.

I would strongly encourage you to take some classes in fields that you have absolutely no idea about. Do not stick solely with what interests you now, because, at 18, you haven't really seen much yet.

Look at college like admission to the world's biggest gun shop and range. Would you go in there and spend all of your time shooting the .270 you already know and love or try out as many new rifles as possible?

My last piece of advice about college is to attend classes. I say this for two reasons. First, I found it way more productive to attend class and take notes than to read the books on my own outside of class. Second, you will miss out on the experiences that your professors afford you. College isn't a means to an end (read: job). People who attend college to simply get a job are pissing away their time. There are a whole lot of these people in college, so don't get sucked in. Make the most of your time and choose your friends wisely.

Just remember when your done with school your only 22. Plenty of time to do whatever you want when you finish.

Don't know if anyone has said this yet, but doing what you love the most for a living could have its downside. If it's your job, then you could get to the point where you get tired of doing it and you might not look forward to it and enjoy it as much.

That's why I turned down a golden opportunity to become a gynecologist.......

Man, that is about perfection right there, especially the engineering part part. I would add that while in college work hard to get a couple of summer or otherwise internships aligned with the degree you are pursuing. Does wonders on a CV.

That said, I am surprised at all of the responses suggesting you stay in college while over at the Campfire a college education gets the chit kicked out of it all the time. Good choice not doing it over there. Wise boy.

Tanner,

I have what may or may not be a useful story about the military paying for education.

My stepson joined the Marines right out of high school on a 5-year hitch, and served in the first Gulf War as a helicopter body repairman on a carrier ship. Afterward he went to the University of Montana on money both from the G.I. Bill and from his mother and me.

He decided to major in pharmacy, even though he had no aptitude for it, because he knew somebody who'd just gotten out of pharmacy school and immediately gotten a high-paying job.

What he had was an aptitude for computers. He blew through all his money in two years, spending it on partying and computers, while flunking out of basic courses required for pharmacy.

He went through the next 20 years doing a bunch of jobs. One was even in computers, but that ended with the dot-com crash. He didn't want to do anything related to what he did in the military.

He also got married to the wrong woman and lost a bunch of money, due to being talked into buying a house with his MOTHER-IN-LAW, who lived with them and was kinda nuts. They lost the house after the dot-com crash. He got divorced, and has essentially worked as store clerk ever since. Luckily, three years ago he found a good woman who's finishing college at 40, and it looks like he may go back to school--at 43.

He's intelligent and skilled in both helicopter body repair and computers, but he's still paying for deciding very early in his college career to major in a subject he had no aptitude for or interest in, rather than taking more general courses and finding out what might work for him.

Lot of good info here.

When I was in high school, I was fairly well known for being coordinated and in decent shape. Our football coach kept bugging me to try out. One day I finally told him "I'm not going to waste my time after school and on weekends chasing a stupid ball around when I could be drinking beer and killing things".

It's something I have never regretted. Have fun, party hard. Don't skip class, work at getting good grades, but don't give up your life for a 4.0 GPA. Most people I know that carried a 4.0 have zero street smarts anyhow.

I'm now 33, and these days I get paid to drive around the desert and have fun all day long. I scout for critters nearly daily. It took a lot of work (2 degrees, several diplomas/certifications) but it was worth it.

Just don't give up on your hunting while in college. You will regret it. I promise.

Tanner,

Do yourself a favor and read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-F...sr=1-1&keywords=millionaire+fastlane

Don't let the title fool you. This book is absolutely not a get-rich-quick type of sham. It's all about mindset and perspective. I promise that you will not regret reading this one. Actually, I'll put my money where my mouth is. If you buy that book and don't gain from reading it, I will reimburse the cost to you for suggesting it.

The only guy I knew in my graduating class who carried a 4.0 is a multimillionaire now. Of course his 4.0 was in computer engineering, he went to work for a research arm of Bell, went to work for Cisco when the internet was undergoing its major expansion, et cetera.

From what I saw teaching university math, the majority of students don't have the intellectual firepower and discipline to mix hard partying with school and have success with a real course load.

What amazed me when I was in college (twice) was the mount of really intelligent people who are completely unorganized and unable to finish anything. I saw lots of people who in my opinion were much "smarter" than me, fail to do basic stuff like hand in final papers, finish projects, show up for class on time, or unable able to adapt to the basic rules needed to pass a class. In some cases it was being young, but not always.

My wife who has looked over thousands of job applications over years and interviewed hundreds of people always comments on how difficult it is to find a "finisher" along with being a person who can exist with others on the job and follow the basic rules of having a job.

Young man,here is some advice from a old fart.Never look to the future.Live your life to the fullest every day you exist.You don`t want to become an old man and say I shoulda done this or that.Do what you heart tells you and you will have no regrets.Money is nice but being happy at what you do is better.Never be afraid to take a chance.This song by Garth Brooks kind of sums it up.
http://youtu.be/q2WcWLavw5U

You didn't mention if you were in high school or college. Sounds like you need a major outdoor trip soon, as in many weeks of backpacking, canoeing, rafting, or horsepacking. That will help your perspective. Maybe you don't have time this year. Try a solo backpacking trip. Even a few days can clear things up.
Try a school like horsepacking, farrier, etc. Build your outdoor resume. Read a lot. Join some clubs. Volunteer some time with conservation related clubs. Help capture critters for banding or electronic collars.

Then you can decide if you want to study something in college.

I would give you one warning. Sometimes your interests and your way of making a living can overlap too much. I had that experience doing field work as an environmental consultant. I would get time off and want to stay home for a change after working out there all the time. I wanted to be with my woman, sleep in a real bed and be able to take a shower.

Tanner, I've got a 17 handicap and couldn't make a golf team. Enjoy learning and all will eventually fall into place.

Damn good advice!

Jayco

Amen...I've seen more high GPA'ers flounder when faced with real world problems when it comes to engineering.

I would never try and talk anyone out of an education but as I posted earlier,my sons good friends brother just graduated High School last year with the wonders of what to do, being the outdoors man he is and grew up doing.

He chose to do this(Packing/Guide) for now and is loving it to death and I can see why.



Jayco

The wife is a bit more educated than I am (she has a dual major BS, an MBA and a PhD as well as some other letters she can hang after her name if she chooses) and teaches at a high-priced university. About the only students whose work ethic she really admires are the international ones, the veterans, and the ROTC kids. The rest of the snotty-nosed brats (for the most part) have either a sense of entitlement that would make you sick or just a plain bad attitude. Not saying you fall into that category, but go back after school with four years of the military under your belt and you'll be better off for it. Just don't get any "entanglements" in the meantime. Worked for me, worked for my boys.

Being a guide is great if you don't mind making dick for money and living at home until you are 30.

Lots of truth to that Drew. The guiding thing sounds so badass and fun until you step back and look at the reality of it. I could go try and help out setting up hunts and maybe guiding some smaller hunts with some friends further East, but I'm definitely not experienced enough to try and get someone on a huge bull/buck and do it regularly.

Plus, like you said...

Adversity is a very good tutor. Open minds are insightful. Experience it the best teacher and school helps understand some of it. Your career will find you...don't do anything half azzed Tanner, go for the gold.

I'm sorry this dream wasn't realized, but, it is about the journey. And, although it doesn't make sense right now, not realizing this dream of golfing will make you stronger/tougher. There's been a lot of really good advice given you in this thread.
Best wishes.

Tanner,

I read through the whole thread. I might get bashed for this, but...

I'd be making some calls to Trinidad. You're a gun guy and have it bad enough to last for several years. I'd be doing what I could to get into that school and that program. I don't know your financial situation, but I'm sure drop/add dates haven't passed at either place. I'd be trying to get into Trinidad this semester and working my butt off for the gunsmith program next semester....or maybe even spring.

It appears as if your major interests are in firearms and hunting. Worst case scenario --- you decide that's not for you and you're still young enough to seek another major wherever you choose. Go for it!

One rule that will get you thru college if not life is
it's ok to hang out with an ugly gun.......
an ugly woman is another story.
STAY IN SCHOOL !!

Tanner, the goal of college is NOT beer, women, and song. Those things are incidental. Get a degree in something you enjoy that can provide you with a nice income.

I feel certain that it is not a universal trait, but some of the grumpiest people that I have known were/are gunsmiths and taxidermists. I think the grind just gets to them. The happiest gunsmith I ever knew practiced his trade at night and weekends. He did it for joy and turned down more work than he took in rather than being under the constant pressure to produce. His real job provided his family with a nice income.

The guy in my present circle of friends that hunts and fishes the most is an architect. He is a bird shooter and fly fisherman and makes several forays to South America and Europe every year to hunt and fish the finest fields and streams.

My No. 1 daughter and SIL, just spent six weeks in The high elevations of Colorado fly fishing and enjoying an escape from the worst part of Texas' summer heat. She is in real estate and he owns a business. Modern communications make this possible. Short story about how their careers evolved. He was VP for development and expansion for a large chain. Good income. Daughter was a rep for a chain of college book stores and peddled fashion accessories as a sideline. An extremely well connected and successful real estate sales lady told her that if she could sell that stuff that she could sell real estate. Her husband's income allowed her to get up and running. (Even in this down economy, her take will likely exceed a quarter million this year.) Meanwhile, husband tired of constant travel and opened his store. Daughter's income had grown to the point where she could sustain their lifestyle as she made a killing before the economy went south. His business has grown, even in this "recession." They have just purchased a small ranch and plans are underway to create a quail haven. Deer hunting is readily available on some adjoining leased land.

I spent a career as a state trooper, ending up as commander of the operations in one sixth of Texas. My sergeant time was spent in the rolling plains of Texas. The place was crawling with quail and deer. My work hours were variable (as long as I got the job done and kept my six county area running peaceful and safe). I hunted all day at least one day a week during the season, and frequently made morning or afternoon hunts before or after work. My contacts opened up lots of land access. When I was the administrator of the SE Texas region, I actually had more invitations to hunt than I had time to accept. (Ever been alligator hunting?)

Bottom line-get an education. Many folks are doing something other than in their degree field. Make a hand at whatever you are doing. Once you choose your spouse, remain faithful to that commitment-divorce is expensive. Enjoy the fruits of your future success to fulfill your chosen avocation(s).

Best wishes, jack

Tanner,

I've read through most of the thread and wanted to throw in my 2 cents for what it's worth. I was practically in the same situation about 20 years ago. I know for me my interests have changed a lot since I was 18-19. Grew up in rural east Texas and was never exposed to much outside of there till I got to college.

I ended up sticking out college but did change my major to something more suited to me. Of all the people I can think Of who "took a year off" only 1 finished and that was a year or two ago. Some of the ones who dropped out are doing great but most of them ended up like the story mule deer told above about his steP son.

College isn't just about a piece of paper, it's meeting new people and broadening your horizons both social and professional. Whether you change majors or transfer out I would recommOend sticking it out, I've got clients that won't promote any one to supervisor level without a bachelors (yes even the head janitor has a ba) that's probably an extreme example but unless your going to be self employed immediately out of school the degree will make a difference in your earning power.

As to stuff I would do differently:
1) avoid entanglements whether it's debt, women or whatever it's much easier to follow your dreams if you don't have other obligations
2) start saving $$ now, read the richest man in Babylon and take it to heart. Will make your life much easier down the road
3) get your money's worth out of college. You don't have to have a 4.0 but approach it like a job and do your best. You wouldn't pay 50 grand for something and not use it so don't treat class any differently
4) a lot of guys I know who guide or gunsmith so they could hunt more rarely get to actually do it themselves bc they can't afford to take the time of work w/out pay so think twice before making your hobby a primary job

I haven't read through the whole thread, but am impressed with the common sense advice.

Tanner, in life you will have major disappointments. Education, work, family. You'll get blindsided in each of those areas if you are like most of us. Classes get cancelled, careers end, and wives or kids end up breaking your heart.

Change is easier if you keep the big picture in mind, if you don't have significant debt and if you have a good understanding of the world around you (that is, a well rounded, dare-I-say it, liberal arts education).

If something major happens to me, I try to keep this in mind: the best revenge is living well.

Good luck!

There is no money in outfitting. I've been a guide for 7 years all over western Canada. There are very few outfitters that can make a go at just outfitting. Most have something else to pad the income as well as outfitting. There are even less guides that just guide. I tried making a go at it but it was dead end gig. I took a trade as school wasn't for me and I still do some guiding for a "holiday"

I wouldn't sweat being cut from the golf team or sweat life. Your young and you can only live once. Tough out school for a year and if nothing else take it for the experience. If school isn't your thing then go to work at some $hit jobs to figure out what you really want to do.

Coming out of high school there is know hurry to do anything..Know one wants to look back and see there younger years boggled with trying to be an adult and do the right thing, to fast.There is plenty of time for that.

Graduating high school and turning 18 is time to enjoy some before you decide anything and get your bricks in a row and find out your decisions effect only you without anyones help.

I say take a year or so off and enjoy life doing what you want before it is to late.A guy never knows what he will be dealt or when.


Jayco

If you do this set a time when you are going to go to school and stick with it. If you decide your gonna take a year off take that year and only that year and get in school.It may give you a chance to decide what you really want to do but dont let it make you lazy. I'm sorry golf didnt work out for you but maybe it wasnt meant to be.You can always count on life not being fair but if you settle for less thats all you'll ever get.

+1

I still wouldn't suggest taking time off, but if that decision is right for you, avoid falling into debt. Too many people become wage slaves and eliminate a lot of options for themselves. I'd venture to guess that's the #1 reason people never make it back to school after taking some time off.

Stay in school.

Go work on your short game.

Try again at first opportunity. Any decent golf coach knows everyone has a bad round now and again. Show him something first chance you get.

And make it to class!

Go to college and get a degree in something. Then do what you love that way incase something was to happen you always have your degree to fall back on.

Stay in college and major in something useful, or get a job in the oilfield in Colorado, Wyoming, or MT/ND.

If you think getting cut from the golf team closed a door, dropping out of college will close many more doors than you could ever imagine. If you stick college out, these next four years you will grow and mature more as a person than any other years of your life (at least I did).

If you ever want any college related advice, shoot me a PM, as I'm not too far out of school myself.

Scorpion I work in the oilfield and never did go to college. You make good money but havig a college degree is still a good thing to have to fall back on. I know I sure wish I would have went to college before going to work in the oilfield

Well I will put my two cents into this, I am a professional pilot, and for the most part its thankless and a very fluid way to make a living. Enough of that. Get an education for the sake of being educated is a good thing, just don't pile up a mountain of debt to do it. If you are going to school like some suggested to party and chase girls, then you should consider that it costs a lot of money to attend college and you don't have to spend that kind of money just to learn how to be a drunk and a skirt chaser. To many put more on that sort of thing than doing the actual work of getting an education. They come out 4 to 7 years latter with worthless degrees and a mountain of debt that will be with them for life.

I won't disagree with any of that, as I would certainly urge him to stay in school by all means. But, if Tanner decides college is not for him, no better way for a young guy to make a living than working in the patch. I was fortunate enough to have graduated college prior to starting work in the oilfield, and I am thankful for that.

Hey Rick.. Did you notice the part where he didn't post this in the campfire because it's a freakshow?

I don't know how far in school you are but my 2 cents is this. Knock out all you mandatory classes that will transfer anywhere. English,science,match etc. Get an associate in something generic that is usable toward whatever you think you may be interested in. Gun writer, maybe major in english lit or journalism. Either will do you well as it is writing and will make you articulate and able to talk to people. In other words you'll be able to at least bull chit your way into a job. If you're still lost after you get your associates degree consider the military. Whatever branch you choose. Remember not everyone in the military is in a firefight. There is a whole host of jobs in the services that don't entail combat. Look at Andy Rooney, wrote for the stars and stripes when he was in. Or if you're adventurous you could go into a combat specialty that will give you some good skills for the outdoors like a pathfinder school, air assault, ranger whatever.

No kidding, they'll be trying to enlist him in the school of anarchy.

OP--Whenever I've had difficulty making a decision, I later discovered that it was because I didn't have enough information, at the time.

Don't worry about choosing a specific path, just yet. It's more important to know that you're heading in the right general direction, as in the correct quadrant on a compass, rather than a precise heading. As you make progress in the right quadrant, you'll begin to see more clearly what course corrections to make.

Scorpion, working in the oil fields sounds tough, but I know a lot of guys on this site do it.

What're your thoughts on the job?

It's only tough if you fall in with the wrong crowd and get hooked up with the booze and drugs. Hard work and long hours never really hurts a guy but the other stuff can.

There are some greasy $[bleep] that work out there and some really good people that work there too. I'd take a trade job over a rig job any day but some trades are way better than others.

T,

Just caught this.

First off, sorry to hear about the golf thing. That's a cruel sport right there. I can certainly see how if you were thinking it'd be your "center", you could be feeling pretty adrift right now.

A few thoughts.

First, so you sucked at tryouts.... got cut.... but hey, the golf course is still there. Get mad. Go to school, hone your game, and next year blow down the doors and make the team. This has the side benefit of building character and all that crap <g>.

Second, go to school. Freshman year is mostly about getting mandatory credits out of the way anyway.... just do it. You'll be glad you did.

Or, drop out and chase dreams for a while. This is dangerous because things change FAST at your age, life sucks you in, and you might find yourself wishing, a few years from now, that you'd just gotten those first couple years of college out of the way. But, maybe your destiny is to guide in the fall and build rifles the rest of the year. Who's to say..... but I'd still say, do a couple years of college first.

In the end, I'd say don't do anything rash. Stay in school. Bang hottie tail. Party like a rock star. Get good grades. Think about chit. NEXT year, if you have a plan, you could drop out or switch schools in a more rational manner than bailing now.

And I still think you can make that golf team, and build some of that "character" bidness in the process.

edit: ok, I read the thread. I see I'm echoing lots of other folks here. Hint?

Here's another reason to stay in school. You never get to be 19-29-21-22 again. Being in college is a great way to both achieve something productive in that era, AND have the time of your life. Sure as f*ck beats working!

I grew up on a college campus (my dad was a professor). They can be wonderful places. If you end up not feeling it at that school, transfer. U of O was the third school I went to... I changed course several times. As mathman alluded to, the hard sciences and hard partying don't mix (I washed out of EE at diffy-Q's, lol) but...... uh...... there are many majors that don't suffer that little problem.

Though a long way out I suggest you also consider how you expect to live when you aren't or can't work anymore, AKA retired. Say from the years 60 to at least 90 or so. You will need a fair chunk of income then.

Ever consider the Coast Gaurd? I have a freind who went in right after high school. He wound up staying in. He spent alot of time in Alska , and loved it.

Tanner,

Life has made me the eternal pragmatist. Here are my thoughts:

At 18, I joined the military to "figure it all out." Two kids, two degrees, two wives, and 24 years later, I'm still there. It's been rewarding beyond words. It's not for everyone, but it's not a bad parking spot for young people while you get your focus. Few kids leave the military without a concrete idea of where they want to go in life; it's a maturation laboratory.

College can open doors for you that would otherwise be closed. I'm a huge college advocate, and it's been critical in my career. HOWEVER, the cost of college is beginning to outpace its usefulness. There will be a market correction at some point, but that won't help you now. If you're not going to major in something that you can parlay into a profession (engineering, science, etc), you might be wasting your time. Be warned about the $60,000 Psychology degree. It won't get you a job, and you'll spend your first 20 years paying it back. I studied electrical engineering; it was a bitch, but I still drank plenty of beer. There are tangible rewards out there for the engineering and hard-science disciplines.

I've found that having a good-paying job allows me to hunt and shoot a lot...maybe more than if I had tried to become a gunsmith. For a little perspective, my "wealthiest" friend turned his one-man plumbing truck into a successful contracting business. Lots of opportunity in the blue collar sector. If I were starting over, I'd look at the service industry with an eye toward starting my own business. Just me.

+1

The reason college can often be parlayed into a job is because it's evidence that you completed something hard. Like my EE professors used to tell me, "they're not going to hire you to sit around and solve equations; all the calculus has already been done!"

I think the suggestions to either stay in school or join the military are both good. I come from a family of engineers and had a lot of "push" to go that direction. My Dad is a Civil and I have two Uncles that are Mechanicals (all retired). When I was in high school, I didn't have any clear direction what I wanted to do. My folks pushed me to go to college and study engineering, though I do believe they are of the opinion that engineering is the only possible way for anyone to make a living (or so it seemed at the time ). They felt I had the aptitude for it and for lack of any better ideas, I followed their suggestion though it wasn't something I was really excited about.

I ended up with a Civil Engineering degree primarily based on a comment my Dad made to me. At the time, I was talking about Aeronautical and Mechanical engineering and he knowing my love for all things outdoors said to me: "with a Civil degree, you will be able to find work anywhere in the world you desire to live." 25 years later, I live exactly where I want to be, have a good job and make a decent living. Is it my dream job? Not really - can't say as I'm really passionate about my work. It does however make it possible to pursue my hobbies and interests without much financial struggle, and I have great hunting and fishing opportunities within minutes from home. I wouldn't give that up for anything.

When I went to school in the '80s, college was affordable enough that I was able to work part time jobs and pay for my education without loans or help from my folks. I know that is difficult if not impossible today. My step-daughter graduated from college a couple of years ago and has a hefty student loan burden that will take her years to pay off and she struggles financially because of it. A big part of that is her choice of studies. We tried to get her to think about what types of jobs she might find after graduation when choosing a course of study. I will always be the first to tell someone to pursue what interests you and that you are passionate about (I didn't). At the same time, an education has become so expensive that I feel it is wise to evaluate it's cost and what it will bring you in return for your investment. For me, that definitely includes being able to pursue other interests, hobbies and live the lifestyle of my choosing, not to mention raising a family (and where you may want to raise kids these days).

Certainly lots to think about. Good luck with your decision - you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and will do well regardless.

Jerry

Tanner,

A couple more thoughts (this'd be a whole lot easier over a beer)...

If you stay in school, go for something tangible that leads directly to work. As opposed to, say, Russian Lit or Psychology. There's a myriad of degrees that when you count the cost of the schoolin' aren't exactly.... efficient. That's unless you plan on an advanced professional degree. Getting a PhD in the above opens doors (in academia, anyway).

With the state of the economy now and for the foreseeable future, which is to say grim as death and trending worse with every indicator showing negative, about the WORST thing you could do is accrue a bunch of debt getting a useless bachelor's degree. Don't do that.

About the best thing you could do is to head into the medical world, somehow. Anything from a medical transcriptionist to a machine operator to a brain surgeon. The dude who did my MRI was paid well, had job security, and I bet what he did to get trained up for that job was not that odious. Anyway, the demographics tell the tale, and they say we've got millions of Ingwe's that are gonna need their tails wiped soon enough. You want job security- go into something medical. The End.

Your concussion story makes me sad. Just from my one bad one, one thing that's really still bugging me is doing math. I have to do it in small steps and write down things as I go. I used to be great at doing math in my head. Anyway-- here's Dr. Jeff's prescription for you: NO MORE CONCUSSIONS, YA DUMB [bleep]!

OK, I'm also going to take the gloves off this time. You admit already having success at "charming the pants off the girls" and flopping at golf. All within a week or ten days.

Maybe so, you spent too much time putting something in one hole and totally ignoring the other. Wrong practice regimen?

Grab hold your ears and give a hard pull. Get your head out of where ever it was and screw it back in place. Your decision to part ways with your H.S. sweetheart might be a clue as to your priorities. Now that you have met the cold cruel world, ATTACK!!

Best wishes (and I am sincere in that) jack

Tanner,

Stay in school.
Work hard, try out for the team again next season (or next time they need a golfer). Continue to maintain relationships with the coach and the players.
If your college offers it, major in civil engineering. Graduate with at least a 3.0 GPA. Plenty of opportunities to travel, most of your projects will be outdoors, and there's going to be a shortage of engineers in your generation. Civil Engineering grads start at min $50k/yr around here. And civil engineering is a good profession that will take you all the way to retirement.
Pray. Realize that your plan may not be God's plan for you, and His plan is the one that will happen.
Regards,
Marty

My son and I figured out that a golf scholarship pays about $4.25 an hour. Since in my book, college is all about preparing for your future, I don't feel like someone on team should be working at $4.25 an hour. Get a job at the campus bookstore, hang a shingle and teach 10 years olds golf, do anything but work for $4.25 an hour. And pay for college as you go or at least minimize your borrowing.

Lot of good fields to go into and you need to get focused and fast since the last time I checked they are charging you to attend college and it is not fun and games. Sure you can have some fun, but first comes accomplishing things that lead to your ultimate goal.

I played college basketball and got a "free" ride. If I had it to do over, I would have worked, played some rec leagues and gone down a different degree path. Good luck and get focused.

Tanner, I didn't read every post in this thread so this may have been said 50 times. If you don't know what you want to do the military might be the best place to find out. I believe that you can still get some kind of guarantee'd job when enlisting if you score well enough.

Pick a job that has a future outside the military and that eduaction can never be taken away.

Gives you 4 years to learn a lot of things that don't come easy at 18 or 19.

I did it and am still in the field I started with. Might just work for you.

I mentioned that very thing earlier, but he told me his math skills are quite weak. That is a crippling deficiency for a prospective engineering major.

I have advanced degrees in engineering and math, and I've been in front of the classroom too. What I've found is even those students whose math skills are better than most of the general college populace still don't appreciate the level of "getting it" in math it takes. That is, until Dr. Whoositz in Engr 333 starts kicking their butts when their vector analysis is weak and electromagnetic theory is killing them.

Students who took my DE course one summer and thought I was killing them with a heavy dose of Laplace transform methods actually sought me out in the fall and thanked me for the course I ran. It seems the circuits and systems theory prof they had was chewing a lot of ass off their classmates, but they had smooth sailing because their math was so strong.

True enough. I wonder if Tanner is really weak in math, or if it's math anxiety. I had the latter until I decided I wanted to be an engineer. From that point on, I didn't find math so hard. It was my perspective.

My fellow engineering students who struggled did so, almost universally, because of a weak foundation in math. It wasn't calculus that killed them...it was algebra and the order of operations. I kid you not.

Math is so foundational.

mathman helped me out quite a bit and I schit you not, the night he helped me I started seeing my math issues more clearly. I'm not dumb and it's not math that is hard, its just keeping the basics perfect that is hard.

That being said, the math in engineering has got to be pretty difficult stuff...

Calculus sucks. But once you pass it, you'll never use it again if you're a Civil!!

My cousin is a professor so that's a huge help. I do try hard to wrap my head around the concepts, and I eventually figure stuff out but it just takes a little longer.

It's typically something like calculus I, II and III, differential equations, numerical analysis and maybe linear algebra.

Says the guy talking LR shooting most of the time?

Find out if you have, as ricarda99 says, an math anxiety.

Not everybody has a mathematical mind but a concentrated work effort can get one a long ways.
One needs a solid foundation to build on though.

Another thing - more general -

one can work with his head almost all the way always.

Knees and backs tend to give way earlier when used a lot.

I would want to make double sure, if I was not a headman, before I dropped out of school.

Now that I've been through the math PhD mill, I laugh at myself when I remember how tough I thought Calc I, II and III were.

Stay in school and get a dregree...pretty much any degree. Most employers want to see that you "finished". There are plenty of people who have great careers that have nothing to do with their major. "Finishing" shows that you have commitment and perseverance.

Volunteer with your local outdoor agencies. My son is now working for our Fish and Game and is still in college because he volunteered to help with winter deer studies and met the right people. He showed great work ethic, intelligence, and an ability to work with people and they hired him. He wasn't even looking for a job. He was just out there connecting with people doing what he loves. Maybe you will never be a golf pro but maybe you will one day manage or run a golf course or country club...

It is amazing where life can lead you if you are out being involved with it.

Tanner, might sound simplistic, but if I could go back in time, I'd have paid attention in school, got a Bachelor's Degree, and would've have become a firefighter/EMT. Great pay, great benefits, great retirement, and most guys work around the clock shifts and then have a full week off, which allows plenty of time for hobbies (hunting/shooting/gunsmithing/taxidermy/writing/etc.) and also frees you up to work a second job if you wanted.

A couple of my buddies work for two different cities on their rotations and make a killing! Think long-term and stability. Look around and most people go through jobs and lay-off's every few years. Not something I want to deal with.

Very true - I struggled with it in school and haven't used it once in my work. My ex-wife got a degree in math and went on to become an actuary. When she was studying for and taking actuarial exams, I looked at some of her study material and had to ask her if what I was looking at actually made sense to her. When she replied "yes", I knew she was nuts!

The main thing you gotta remember is that the purpose of college is to teach you to think and to solve problems. If you can do that, then you can do most anything if you work at it.

Differential equations is where my partyin' met my studyin' in a claymation grudge match........... Diffy Q's won. Or lost. At any rate that's where I hit the math wall.

I'll toss out a contrarian opinion to those saying "be an engineer!".... at least when I was in engineering school, the stated goal of the dept. was to accept 35% of us vying to do it. Put another way, for the math challenged <g>, they were actively washing out 65% of the students. It was extremely competitive. It was like the Hunger Games. I remember a couple classes... physics being one, Calc III another, where a test grade in the 30's set the curve. I remember one test I got 3/4 problems wrong and got a solid B. At some point I looked around and realized that for some of the guys around me, this was their thing, it was what they were born to do, what they were a natural at. And I was not that guy. I could do it, but it came hard.

My POINT being, a person who is coming right out and saying they are bad at math, will be competing with people who are not bad at math. That's gonna be HARD going. Not impossible, but man....

Rarely does life work out how we plan it. Quitting just because something doesn't go as planned is not a very wise way of life and will only end up in bitterness and heartache...

In my opinion, dentist > doctor every day of the week and twice on Friday.

Similar story here. Differential equations is where I hit the wall.

Tanner,

My only advice regarding college:

If she smokes, she pokes.
Wade in the red river, but do not drink from it.

That is all.

Tanner,

A few post back, Delgue said, "The main thing you gotta remember is that the purpose of college is to teach you to think and to solve problems. If you can do that, then you can do most anything if you work at it."

I want to re-emphasize that. Regardless of what your major turns out to be, the most important things you will learn are 1) How to learn, and 2) How to communicate, verbally and on paper.

Writing lots of papers and giving lots of presentations will pay off in the real world for years to come, even in classes you see no value in at the time. Once you really learn how to learn, you can go in any direction your heart desires.

Tons of good advice have been given so far in this thread. When you aren't sure exactly where you are headed, keep progressing in the right quadrant, as another member said very well. Any progress beats no progress. Doors will open along the way.

Set short term goals when the long term goals aren't clear. Success at reaching goals depends less on intelligence and more on the willingness to work for them.

You will observe many along the way that give up and fail. Few of those really worked as hard as they could have. The guy that never gives up will almost always reach his goal eventually.

People are their own worst enemy. Most people have no idea what their real limits are. They sell themselves short and live up (down?) to their own self-imposed limitations.

Tanner, at your age life can and should be exciting and fun. Don't forget to enjoy the journey. You won't pass this way again, and life happens faster than you realize.

There are some real landmines to avoid, so be smart and be careful. Many have been mentioned by others. Things to avoid at all costs (entanglements):

Do not get anyone pregnant.

Do not fall in love with the wrong person. Do not think you can fix anyone. You can feel empathy but there is no such thing as a white knight aside from fairy tales. Way too many good guys try to be white knights.

No one-night-stand (you call them hook-ups) is worth getting an incurable STD that you and your future partners will have to deal with for the rest of your life. Or knowing that you caused an abortion. In other words, be careful who you do and how you do it.

Do not rack up big student loans. They are like poison. Those who have had them have regretted how much they set them back for their whole lives. Trying to buy and pay for a home for a family while student loans are still outstanding is almost impossible in today's economy, and for the foreseeable future.

Alcohol or drugs. You will see some surprising casualties along the way. Make sure you aren't one of them. They are also the leading cause of missing classes.

You are paying for each class. Demand your money's worth, from the school, the professor, and yourself. Never miss a class if you can help it.

You are a smart fellow and a good person. You will do well. Keep God in your heart and He will show you the way as it unfolds. It is normal to feel restless at your age. Pick your friends carefully and try to surround yourself with positive people.

Best Wishes for you.

That one above all else.

My son was born when I was 18 and a senior in high school. It's funny, but my biggest regrets have nothing to do with losing my "freedom," or getting married too young, or being flat-ass broke. I regret that I wasn't capable of being the Dad at 18 that I would have been at 30, and I'd like to get a redo.

It's all good now, but I just can't endorse getting married or having kids before 30. I say work through the selfishness of youth, figure out who you are (it will change), and then get serious.

My first kid was born a few days before I turned 30. Plus one. I have my faults, but I'm a good husband and Dad and a big part of that is because I was more or less ready.

I sure had fun in my 20's. Sigh.

I'm trying my damndest. Been fortunate so far... Hopefully that doesn't change.

It's only a game that fights for stupidity on an equal basis with flyfishing, where you catch fish, then release them. What could be dumber?

I never finished College. I remember in orientation in 101 Gaines Hall, MSU 1972, They told me to look at the guy on my right, then the guy on my left, as they wouldn't be there when I graduated.

I wondered where they would be, not realizing I had been looked at twice as the guy not being at graduation. 40 years later I have had a great marriage of over 38 years, 5 wonderful kids, 10 grandchildren so far, and the list goes on. I never made much money, but we got our house paid off and own all our own cars, no payments.

It doesn't take being a Doctor or CEO to find happiness and success. I live where I would vacation and love what I do. I never liked school, it was like prison. Looking back, the only thing I would change would be to finish college, just because I don't like leaving something unfinished. I don't wish for anything more than I have, and 40 years ago, I can't even remember any of those things like the golf team, football team or any other organized sport.

Remember, if there isn't bone sticking through your flesh, there is no emergency. You don't need golf any more than it needs you. Make good decisions and learn to deal with disappointment. I wasn't voted to be most successful in high school, and what I may have been remembered for then, is of no consequence now.

By the way, I flyfish and golf and love to do both, but not making the golf team didn't even upset my bowl of cereal...

I say stay in school, and get your degree. When it comes to choosing a degree, get something that is actually applicable so you can get a good career. I was like many others, I quit college and joined the military. While the military has paid for my bachelors and is funding my MBA, I am still enlisted. Nothing wrong with being enlisted, but the officers make quite a bit more money and that's more money to buy toys with! Enjoy college, and pick a degree that will lead to a career that you enjoy in life.

Tanner lots of advice here, but if I were you I would print this out and stick it up some place that made me read it every day.

Not much I can add that hasn't already been written, but I've seen a couple pics of you and have read enough of what you write to see that you are one of the ones I call the naturals; athletic body and skills and more than a little personality. Two traits that can take one far if they pay attention and are willing to dig in and do the hard stuff when it presents.

I can imagine your mind set, when the hard part of a hunt happens. The hard hill, the pack load coming out, etc. You just keep going and work on getting it done. It's hard, but pride makes it seem less like work. That mind set needs to be channeled into whatever life endeavor you choose, and we can't choose it for you.

Yes, there will be people you encounter that will have the ability to give direction and open doors, but it will still be up to you to make the final decision. Always give them some thought and consideration. There will be those who truly want to help and those who want to only use you. Learn to read people. Watch and observe them. Watch and observe how the good ones handle themselves, their loved ones, their job, their health. An education in an of itself that will give you direction.

Addition: Don't ever sell yourself short on pure smarts. I've literally seen hundreds of brilliant people who never found their way to make themselves happy or contributed much in any way. I've seen many more of average intelligence who kept at it and made a good life for themselves. Smarts are a definite bonus, but carry with them their own curse that needs to be realized. The book stuff comes easy, application maybe not so.

Don't ever sell yourself short.

I've worked the oilfield, and wouldn't be afraid to go that route.
Not what I do now though and in my profession I can get a job in any state, in almost any place, any kind of work schedule, make a decent living, work inside or outside, and have plenty of time to hunt/fish.

All jokes aside, the most valuable thing to have above all else in good old common sense.
It will take you places that degrees never will.
Now having said that, a degree with common sense is more better............

Be happy in your work.

Follow your interests and try and swim with the river.
What I mean is if something is happening for you dont keep trying to hammer something else because you think you should.

But if you're younger, you will discover with some suprise, as I did, that you will end up doing things you never expected, and it just happens.

I have worked on the docks, in textile factories, I have been an assistant cartoon animator, wrote educational books for children, written magazine articles, sailed the Pacific on ships, worked as a artist, for transport companies, in Naval intelligence and recently published my first book.

Tanner,

As a man who hires people on a regular basis, I can tell you that unless you go into a specialized field such as accounting, teaching, engineering, etc, that it doesn't matter a whole lot what sort of degree you have so long as you have one.

A good friend of mine has a great job as head of project management for a medium-sized local bank and has a BA in Sociology. The head of IT in that same bank has an Art History degree! My boss has a History degree.

Barring interest in a specialized field, the degree gets you face time in an interview then you sell yourself. Once you're in the door, performance is what matters and you'll likely have to work your way up the slow way paying your dues. If you show the character to do so willingly, you're likely to be a huge success.

Along the way you can enjoy yourself an awful lot. I am a sales rep who has had enough success to comfortably raise 5 kids with my wife staying home w/ the kids, and I don't golf or play tennis. As a matter of fact, last Thursday I was shackled with the difficult task of taking a client around the local sporting clays course after lunch.

Tough job, but somebody has to do it !!!

From what I've seen of you around here you've got character and have a good family that has educated you in what is REALLY important. Do what is right, work hard, show respect to those above you, and you'll be golden. Don't sweat the small stuff. When you just do the next right thing you're in as good a spot as you can be in!

Change your major to something with math, get an ROTC scholarship, see the world.

easy

Tanner,
a few words of advice from an Aussie:
1. Always hold your head up high.
2. Never think that others are above you - we are all the same.
3. Try to get into a career you enjoy - but if you dont, dont be afraid to change.
4. Always say "please" and "thank you" .
5. Always remember - there are people in the world who arent free and have the rights we have.

Cheers
Gus

Hey Tanner, hope things are turning around for you a bit. I have not read all the posts in this thread, but I'm sure there have been some golden nuggets posted.

One of the main things I try to instill in my older kids is "passion". Finding out what you feel really passionate about and step on the accelerator...

This will allow you to be both happy and prosperous. It's way better to be happy and getting by (maybe even more than just getting by) than to be better off and miserable...at least in my opinion. Life is way to fuggin short to be involved in something that doesn't drive you to wake up every day.

Did you declare a major yet? What are your options? Let your passion guide you and you'll be far better off.

Good luck!

....and don't fret about the golf team. Eat your misfortune for lunch and come out hard next year. You will still have three full years left!