Tim,

In the photo of you and the Dall, what cartridge and load did you take it with?

Rugernut

Pre-64 Winchester M-70 Featherweight in .30-'06 Springfield. The bullet was a 165-grain Nosler Partition Protected Point. It's probably in my journal, but I believe the powder was IMR-4350 and the load was pretty max.

Magnificent, gorgeous animal and I will never be worthy of him.

Steve

Thanks Steve.

A .308 win. with a Barnes Tripleshock 150 or 165gr. bullet should do fine as a sheep gun, and also serve o.k. as bear protection, don't you think?

Ruger,

The bear thing is the problem. Heck, if it was simply hunting sheep, with absolutely no possibility of running into a bear that dreadfully needed killing, a 150-grain non-premium bullet would be perfect (say the 150 Hornady Interlocked).

My problem was that Alaska-Yukon moose and grizzly were also on the menu. Obviously, sheep is pretty much a long range situation. Moose can be at most any range and grizzly are likely to be at spitting distance in the silver willows. Just try to pick a single bullet that is perfect for all!!!!!!!

I have no experience with the Barnes TSX, but they are the "buzz" bullet today. I can tell you that I've quite literally trusted Nosler Partition bullets with my life on several occasions and that they were quite worthy of the trust. The Partition has a long history of successful use and I would highly recommend their use. Just my opinion.

And, because of the grizzly thing, I'd still use 165-grains of persuasion. If it was a simple matter of black bear, the 150-grain Partitions would work quite well.

It's a fool's errand to carry two types of bullet, one for sheep and one for bear. Just a mistake waiting to happen.

Steve

It's a fool's errand to carry two types of bullet, one for sheep and one for bear. Just a mistake waiting to happen.


You definitley had eveything covered with your choice of caliber and bullet. Congrats.

Page 363 of the Hodgdon #26 reloading manual.Just happened to spot it again the other day looking for data.I knew I reconized that photo before! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Steve,

Would you go .300 instead, for the reach and bear problems?

Kennon

Kennon,

Personally, I wouldn't go for the .300 (fill in your own brand; Winchester, Weatherby, Ultra...whatever). I've always been able to shoot much better with the more moderate cartridges. My experience has been that precise placement of a great bullet is the key to harvesting game.

The largest critter I've killed with the .30-'06 was a 2365 pound eland in Africa. A single 180-grain Hornady SPBT killed him instantly and he was flipped on his back with all four footsies sticking up in the air when I recovered from the recoil. (Sorry Ross S., the boat tail bullet expanded perfectly, with the core and jacket intact....eat your heart out, baby <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Some guys are absolutely recoil-proof and shoot large cartridges very, very well in the field. I totally envy them and wish I had that ability. But I don't.

As Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If you can shoot the .300 as well as the .308 WCF in the field, go for it. The .300 Mag with 180-grain Nosler Partitions at something over 3000 fps would be a superior combination for sheep AND griz. No doubt about it.

As for me, I'll stick to the .280 Ackley and the .30-'06 and never feel the lack (other than to my ego <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Steve

You went huntin' without "premium' bullets <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What were you thinking <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I shoot quite a few big boomers and have brass and loaded rounds left over from a .300 WSM I used to have, but the older I get the less rifle weight I want to carry. And light rifles spell "RECOIL". I'm going to take a Kimber Montana on my trip, and in .300 WSM with 165's were talking 34 ftlbs. of recoil vs. 24 ftlbs. of recoil in the .308 with the same bullet and rifle ( 1lb. differance in rifle weight). This will be my first sheep hunt so I want to go as light as I can.
Kennon

Kennon,

Like you, I suffered greatly in making my rifle/cartridge/bullet choice. My eventual selection was admittedly a compromise. Having said that, at least you are thinking about it and, in doing that, you'll be just fine.

Bipods were not even an issue when I hunted for dalls and if I was hunting them now, I'd surely add a Harris LS to my rifle. Yeah, the LS weighs twelve ounces, but it can save the hunt.

In case you are interested, in a short article I wrote a couple of years ago is a brief description of my sheep hunt. The magazine paid for "one-time publishing rights," so I think I can legally copy and paste it here. The following is an exerpt from the article.


"It was several days later that I killed one of the finest trophies of my long hunting career. Again, we were climbing, sliding and scrambling across the loose rock (talus) at the base of a cliff, when Rudy spotted a small herd of large sheep. The spotting scope showed that they were all rams and that two were definitely shooters.

After an extended stalk, we still weren't close enough to take a reasonable shot. Suddenly, the rams spooked and it was pretty clear that they were going to climb out of the huge basin. Rudy wanted me to kill the long-horned ram badly, so he advised shooting, even though the range was extreme. I believe an exact quote would be, "We're never going to catch up to those rams again, so let's get some bullets in the air."

I placed the pre-'64 Winchester Model 70 .30-'06 over my pack , turned the Leupold to nine-power and focused on the sheep. Rudy laid by my left side, watching through the spotting scope. We had a single factor in our favor; it was lightly raining and my "misses" would show up in the talus slope. With Rudy's help, I was to walk my bullets into the biggest ram. The procedure is exactly the same as long-range prairie dog shooting, except that we had the advantage of using wet talus to spot my missed rounds.

I was zeroed at 300 yards with 165-grain Nosler Partitions and Rudy advised holding "two sheep" high. The first round hit five or six sheep low. After a missed second, third and fourth round, I managed to center-punch the ram on the fifth shot. By this time, I was trying to hold nine sheep-heights over his back. Obviously, with my bullets zinging around him, the ram was also scrambling through the loose talus to get out of the basin. It was a terrible business, but sometimes magic happens when you're slinging bullets at extreme range.

The ram eventually ran out of gas and his last act was to make a spectacular slide down a rock slide. By risking life and limb, we eventually made it to our prize. Rudy and I were a wet, tired, happy pair as we admired the gorgeous ram. We not only had more meat, but we had killed the finest sheep Rudy had ever seen.

Field measuring showed that the ram measured 43�" on his right horn and 42�" on the left. Rudy warned me that sheep horns are notorious for shrinkage and, if I wanted to register him in either Boone & Crockett or Rowland Ward, the measurement would be shorter after the official drying period. This fact couldn't have concerned me less.

Personally, I believe the trophy is in the hunt, so I have never entered my Dall sheep in the book. He is my hero, one of the most gorgeous animals I have ever seen, and that is enough. The Dall ram lives in our living room to this day." From Varmint Hunter Magazine, Issue #45, January 2003


Good luck on your hunt. If I can be of any help in selecting gear or hunting advice, I'm more than willing to help in any way I can.

Steve

DZ,

I have always loved that quote! However I always carry it one step further:

[color:"red"]"A man truly never knows his limitations until he exceeds them." [/color] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ...the9.3Guy

Steve
Not to sidetrack this thread, but you could not pay me to carry a bipod on a sheep hunt! I have seen nothing but grief come because of them on several AK hunts... Not long enough to be useful unless they weigh too much to be carried.

At least that is my experience. ;-)
art

Steve-
After seeing first hand the conditions and terrain Dall sheep survive in, unworthy was exactly the feeling I had too.

Cast

Hey friend Art,

I shot my sheep in the lowest possible prone position "in-sling" and, under those conditions, a bipod would have been wonderful. However, your point is very well taken, a lot of times, a bipod might just be useless (heavy) baggage.

The point is, a fella has to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of every single piece of gear. It all gets carried on your body and you pay in sweat and blood for every stinking ounce of weight.

When I was guiding elk hunters, I could never get over how many of them carried a big-azz handgun. They were paying forty ounces to carry a worthless piece of gear. Yeah, a handgun is macho, but there is nothing it can do that a rifle won't do better in every way.

I had a hunter fall off a cliff once. He landed right on his pistol and damned near broke his hip. I noticed that the handgun was not part of his gear on later trips. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The same goes for knives; when there is any chance of falling (I fall a lot), the vote goes for a folding knife, one that won't slice through the sheath and bugger your leg. If a sheath knife must be used, it goes in your pack, where it can't bite you.

Every piece of gear must be worthwhile and worth its weight. Otherwise, it gets left at home.

Art, thanks for your voice of experience. This is the kind of wisdom that doesn't come from magazines and books. This is the wisdom that comes from "being there." Thanks.

Your friend Steve

Steve,

Two things.

1. I planned on taking a Stoney Point Explorer monopod, that way I can use it for climbing and shooting.

2. I've got a Nikon lightweight spotter (16x42x60) I'm thinking about taking. Do you think it's worth the weight or should I just use bino's and let the guide carry a spotter? Got to have a guide in Alaska ya know! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Kennon

BTW Steve,

Where did you take your Dall?

Kennon

Kennon,

1. Good plan to use the Stoney Point. I used a "Moses Stick" made out of a silver willow for climbing and it was very handy. It could have been used as a shooting aid, as well.

2. I took Leica binoculars only and my guide had both a spotter and binos. Personally, if I were to do it again, I'd take a spotter too. One guy can't see it all.

Steve

Kennon,

Yukon Territory. We landed in Goz Lake, a couple hours by bush plane Northeast of Mayo Landing. Then, we took horses over goz Pass and dropped into the Snake River.

From there it was three more days North by horseback to an area where we established our base camp. Our camp was on the Snake River. Not too far to the East of the River was the Northwest Territories border.

We spike camped for days at a time out of the base camp.

Wild, wild country.

Steve

Steve, can you enlarge the picture so we can really see what a handsome devil the ol "Dogzapper " is!!!! wouldnt mind a better look at the ram either!!!!!!! 7.21 Tomahawk

I was guessing the ridge above Notellum Creek! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

--Mike

Tomahawk,

I really don't know how to post photos like the computer guys do, so I'll do a photo attachment. I'm the guy in the wool jack-shirt and no horns. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Steve

Mike,

I have the original map that we used on the hunt. Not too surprisingly, we found it loaded with errors (places marked glaciers were lakes and vice-versa).

We left Goz Lake and actually went NE over Goz Pass, hitting the Snake River at the point where Reptile Creek empties into the other side of the Snake. Then, we followed the Snake (through swamps and all kind of [bleep]) basically NW for three days.

If you look at your map, our base camp was precisely North of the summit of Mount MacDonald and on the East bank of the Snake River. You'll see a four-forked creek that comes out of the mountains to our West and flows into the Snake....the intersection of the Snake and the unnamed creek was the site.

Interestingly, we didn't see much on our side of the river (naturally). Soooo, we ended up stripping naked and walking across the Snake and carrying our spike camp (in peril, I can assure you). Look exactly NE of our Snake River base camp and you'll see a big long creek drainage We spiked pretty much at the creek's headwaters (very much on the NWT border).

I killed my sheep within a quarter-mile, or less, of the border. Hey, that's where we were finding sheep.

I killed the double-shovel caribou just South of there, where the NWT/Yukon border takes a 90� bend to the NE....kinda the headwaters of the southernmost fork of the big creek.

Gorgeous, wonderful country and I wish I was man enough to do it again.

Our outfitter was a crook and we had few supplies, so Rudy and I ended up living off the land....ptarmigan, red-eyed grouse (whatever they are) and when we killed the caribou, we ate bumgut, netting and and all. Cooked the caribou ribs over the fire and cooked a ham whole under the fire for three days (wrapped in bacon rind and double aluminum foil). Low-bush cranberrys were on, so we ate them til we crapped purple and the farts stained our drawers. Oh man, what a time.

We ate the sheep, too. Finest meat I've ever eaten.

Steve

In response to your choice of calibers, what are you thinking, man? You must hang around guys like Barsness and Haviland to use such puny stuff. I used a man's caliber on my first trip west for pronghorn. Big stuff. .250 Savage. Was told it wouldn't have the reach. The 14" horns on the wall say otherwise. By the way, how's that 6.5/06 AI that you wrote up in Varmint Hunter? I did a 6.5x257AI that's just delightful.
Mike

Hey Mike,

Yup, I hang out with the wrong crowd; Barsness, Haviland and guys like that will lead a fella to ruin. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The 6.5-'06 Ackley Gordy Gun is still shooting wonderfully. In fact, I love it so much that I had Gordy build me a perfectly matching .22-250 Ackley. Nice pair.

Steve, thank you for the attchmt. That is truly the trophy of a lifetime..... 7.21 Tomahawk

Dogzapper,
Thanks for attaching the larger photo of that spectacular ram.
Sounds like that crook of an outfitter forced ya'll into having a more memorable and rewarding experience <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The memories would have been trophy enough, but wow!!!!! ...a super ram to boot!!!
[bleep]

Steve,

Great sheep! I hope I can have a great experiance like you had.

Thanks for your replies.

Kennon

Great read. How many years ago did you get him?

Thanks for sharing your story.
Cheers,
CL

Lefty,

Back when my hair was dark and I could still climb the mountains; 1978. This was my first "big" hunt, followed by a lengthy safari in Zimbabwe 1984 and and another in South Africa in 1989. In the 1990s, I started hunting Canada again, Alberta mostly, and did so until the leftist Canadian government started treating me like a criminal at the border in 2002. These days, I'm in my sixties, I limit my adventures to the Western United States.

Anyway, in answer to your question.....back in olden times, 1978. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The area we hunted was so darned remote that I'm convinced even bigger sheep still live in the Snake River country of the Yukon. And, if not, I'll die convinced that they do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Steve

Steve

This type of comment always makes me laugh. Especially comming from someone residing in the U.S. Try and find a country with this type of hunting opportunity that is easier to get a hunting firearm into. I'll bet you can't.

Chuck

DZ,

Hopefully, I will live long enough and be fortunate enough to check out your hypothesis and try for them Yukon rams <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately, I'm sure there have been some changes since the 70s...let's hope for the sake of the sheep that you're right and that populations are still strong, growing and that the forests are as ripe with wilderness wildlife as they were back then.

Cheers,
CL