Id been searching for a 16 ga for a whileand picked one up today. A older remington 1100 with 26" imp cyl choke. I just had to jump onit then got to thinking after the fact ive never shot. Imp cyl. What can it be used to hunt effectivly? My main uses would be dove and squirel. How limited would i be with that choke?

Improved cylinder would be a looser choke. One step looser than Modified. Basically means that the pattern will open up faster than a Modified and less than a Cylinder choke. Best bet is to pattern the shotgun with the load you intend to use and see what happens. It would be considered more of a close pattern say 25 to 40 yards depending on the shot and powder charge. Only way to really know is to pattern the shotgun with the load in hand.

It'll be just fine. No need to do anything except load/buy 1 oz #8's for doves and some 6's for the tree rats.

Most people run to tight of a choke anyways. I use imp cyl and modified about equally, and should use imp cyl more.

It will be a great rabbit, grouse and woodcock gun with 1 ounce loads and a 35+ yard gun for doves and squirrels with 1 1/8 ounce loads.

I don't have a 16, so I was not really sure what the differences would be vice a 20 or 12. My upland shotgun is a Ithaca Model 37 and has an improved cylinder choke and for me is a grouse killer. Have to limit the range on Pheasants a bit unless I go up on shot size.

IC is my go to choke for most field conditions, most guys are way over choked IC in a 1100 is PERFECT IMO

Lately, I've been using cylinder and Improved cylinder in my Citori 16 gauge and have noticed much better connect rates.

I have shot 20 gauge double barrels almost entirely for the last 20 years of small game hunting. An IC first barrel has been entirely satisfactory on grouse, rabbits and squirrels.

I agree with this 100%

JUST ABOUT PERFECT for bird hunting behind a dog and the uses you have for it. 1 1/8 oz 6's and 5's that are buffered might give you a little tighter patterns when you need to reach farther.

Pattern the thing at 40 yards at a 30" circle, you'll be surprised what I/C does. Shoot several loads, different brands and see WTF. Different weights, 1oz. vs. 1 1/4oz etc, will show you different results.

Guys would be blown away if they actually "sighted in" their shotguns. I know my Citori is 60/40 70% with .727 choke and 7/8oz 7.5's.

Yeah, many "improved cylinder" chokes will pattern 60% or more with hard shot, especially larger shot.

A lot depends on the exact constriction. I've measured supposed IC chokes on 16's that ran anywhere from .008 to .014, and have seen modified chokes measuring .010 to .020.

My Invector chokes measure:
Cyl: -0.002"
Skeet: 0.006"
Imp. Cyl.: 0.006"
Mod. : 0.012"

The mod patterns as a full with the lead loads I'm using for pheasant and completely blows any factory steel load I've tried (which is all of them for the 16 gauge).

Want to start messing with subgauge loads, 7/8 & 3/4 oz to see what the deal is there. Lots of talk that you don't give up much in performance and many benefits from less recoil.

My Invector full measures 0.041" and with testing is damn near worthless for anything short of turkeys.

Thinking a brake hone and some extra time (which is short now with a basement remodel and 3 kids under the age of 6) is in order for making some custom bored Invector chokes. Buy a couple full chokes and make them the constrictions that I want and can test in my gun.

I shoot Skeet No. 1 and improved cylinder in both my shotguns, 12 and 28 ga, for pheasant. Hits fine to 50 yds plus.

I would not change a thing. IC is perfect for about 95% of what we do for non-waterfowl shotgunning.

I used Mod for years, but tried Imp one year and found that with few exceptions, that is the choke to use. Late season pheasant, long range geese are about it for my mod and full choke tubes anymore. Improved patterns stretch further than you would think.

Listen to Mule Deer. I have a 870 that has not had the IC choke out of itother than to clean it every now and then for probably 20 years. I have shot every thing including water fowl with it in that time. Depending on the brand even the Wally World discount loads will pattern 45-50 % at 40 yds. With good hard trap loads you can add about 10% to that average. I have found it even works fine for trap to probably 22yds giving good solid breaks. With today's wads IC is the best all around choke for most hunting conditions.

I agree with the IC being great for most shotgunning.. It or an mod. are about as tight as I want in a shotgun except for gobblers.. As for shooting squirrel, I had friends in W. Va. that used to do a lot of tree squirrel hunting before their country was developed for big city interests.. They felt squirrel shotguns should be full choke due to the small size of the animal and tough hide.. They felt a squirrel could soak up more shot for its size than a rabbit or grouse..

All the good things everyone else said. Never owned a 16 but IMO in a 12, IC is the most useful, all around, choke. I could be wrong but I'd think it would be in a 16 too.

Passport,
Why is my statement that a Improved Cylinder is a looser choke? My thought was the choke constriction lineup IE Turkey, Full, Mod, IMP CLY, CLY etc. Going along the range of chokes it is normally considered to be "looser" choke. I did not mean that in a bad way. Ducks and Geese are the only time I see the need for a "tight" choke. I have yet to hunt Turkey.

Yes, the only thing you are likely to notice is a higher % of hits. Jack

Nate40,

I consider Imp. Cyl. to be the single most useful shotgun choking for nearly all bird hunting. With steel shot, it is the only choke screwed into the end of my Browning Gold 12 ga., used with either steel or hevi-shot.

For pheasant, IC chokes and #5 shot are a deadly combo.

My bad :), use the term "more open" next time as Im prone to firen off a quick reply

About the stupidest comment I've heard in long time!!

So you're saying guys who refer to Full and Extra Full as "tight" chokes are stupid?

I guess I'm an inexperienced dope; I knew what he was talking about when I read it.

Sorry I thought it said "LOSER" instead of "LOOSER" I apologize.

After fifty some odd years of doing this stuff, I've come to the conclusion that if the average shotgun looney spent as much time shooting as they do agonizing over a few insignificant thousanths of an inch choke constriction, they would be happier. Most shoot too much choke as it is. Choke standards were set long ago, when shotgun cartridge engineering was still in the dark ages, so to speak. My big epiphany came back in the seventies, when I started using my 20 inch Ithaca slug gun (cylinder bore) for birds as well. I killed a truck load of birds and early season ducks with that gun.

To anyone who can shoot, there's nothing worse than being in the field under-choked (too "loose" LOL) for the longest birds you may encounter.

I always choke tight. If I have a close bird, I just let it fly a little farther before I make the delivery. I'm weird.

IC is great for what the OP is using it for.

Your friends were absolutely right. Tree squirrels are ALOT tougher than rabbits or grouse. I've killed several thousand squirrels over the years with 12,16,20 gauge and .410 shotguns. Full choked guns aren't really neccesary in 20 gauge or larger guns unless the timber is unusually tall in your locale. Modified works pretty well out to 35-40 yards so long as you're shooting at least 1 oz. of 5's or 6's. Improved cylinder sucks for squirrels in tall timber. So much so that you'll be seriously handicapping yourself with it. We have 80' + tall hickories around here and 1 - 1 1/8 oz of sixes through an IC choke won't consistently provide clean kills on squirrels feeding in the tops, even if you're shooting straight up from the bottom.

I should have perhaps used a better choice of wording, "more open", less constriction" etc. I guess I was thinking of a looser pattern as opposed to a tighter pattern. Patterning is the only real way to KNOW how a certain shotgun will shoot with that particular loading. There does seem to be a bit of difference between makers and choke tube makers as to just what any particular choke really is. IE brand X is not always equal to brand Y for patterns with a given IE Improved choke. It's all good in the end once you know your gun and limits.

Blackheart, that is what my pals told me from W. Va. They had some huge timber in the country at that time.. The model 12 12 ga. and Model 31 12 ga. full choke 30" barrels were the "squirrel guns" of that area.. Even then, my friend said in some of the tallest trees squirrles would just "twist" their tails when shot at with a shotgun I just described.. He and his friends shifted to .22 rifles for this reason..

I certainly can't find fault with anything that has been said so far, but there is always another side of a story. Let me preface this by saying for the past 25 years, I have been shooting trash birds all summer long, and into the fall. Some weeks, I would shoot a flat of shells a day, three times a week. The primary bird was starlings at a dairy with pigeons close behind. For some years, I have kept a log of the number of birds killed and it was between 1,500 and 2,000.

Most of my shooting was done over blueberry fields and a couple of diaries. Needless to say, I was a pretty pathetic shot to begin with, but sharpened my skills as time went on. With skills vastly improved, I became one who experimented with various loads of shot.

Since I shot so many rounds each season, I gravitated toward loads that were 7/8 of an oz hovering around 1200 fps. With a full choke, I found that consistent kills could be made in the 60+ yard range with that load. I had trouble early on believing it possible as did my shooting partners. These loads worked extremely well in the 12 ga. w/.030 choke and a 16 w/.025.

One of the major results, that birds hit with less choke and smaller shot did not necessarly result in quick kills. With the #5 shot and 7/8 it is murder on long range pigeons as well as close range ones.

The main thing is, I am an avid shotgunner and have developed the subconscious to the place it really is easy to kill birds as I don't have to think about lead. Shooters vary in skill level from poor to very good, so you may see a need for open chokes and l l/8 loads. Different strokes for different folks.

In Argentina, 1500 is a good morning total and 2000 is good for that evening.

LOL

WCH. Due to extensive logging over the years a 100 ft hickory is pretty big in Easter Ky where I live unless you are in some of the protected forest areas and I suspect WV is pretty much the same. Even at that, that's just 33 yds and 80 ft is more common so you thats closer to 25 yds. Your friends were correct as when I was a kid guys would swear and be dammed you had to have a full choke and 1 1/4 ounce high brass 6s to shoot squirrels. Sort of like saying shooting elk requires at least a 338 I guess. All I can say is I use to see a lot of mangled up squirrels when I was a kid. I have always done fine with assorted shotguns from 410 to 12 ga. and chokes from IC to full usually with 1 oz. of shot or less.

You worded I right, I should have read it more carefully,sorry.

Uh no, not really. An IC choked shotgun will kill squirrels dead inside 25 yds. but that's about where it ends with 1- 1 1/4 oz. non premium loads. Push it much beyond that and you'll start losing hit but only wounded squirrels. Sure you'll still knock some out of the trees at 30 - 35 yds. but many will hit the ground running and you'll lose them down holes and under logs and blowdowns. I've seen schitloads of them blasted out of the top of a tall hickory, free fall 90', hit the ground with a solid "thud" and be up and running in a flash. The problem with killing squirrels with a shotgun is that they're so damned tough that it's imperative to get pellets through the brain, heart and lungs in order to kill them quickly and those vital organs are mighty damned small. Unlike grouse or cottontails, a few pellets in the front and hind legs, guts and non vital meaty areas just ain't gonna cut it. And you can't switch to smaller pellets to increase pattern saturation either because 7.5's or 8's don't penetrate to the vitals through their boot leather tough hide at extended range. Nope, what you need is a load/choke combination that will consistently poke #5 or #6 pellets into the golf ball sized chest cavity and quarter sized brain cavity at whatever range you expect to kill them cleanly/consistently and IC just doesn't cut it much past 25 yds. in my experience.

Nail on the head Sir. Large, hard shot.

No doubt the manufacturers of chokes have their standards of constriction for chokes, but they don't watch it too closely.

Fred, that shooting sounds like a real joy.. What a task to have..
Last fall, I had a good afternoon's pigeon shoot.. But it only lasted one afternoon, but it was the most fun shotgunning I had all fall..

I grew up in an era when and a region where the 30" full choke barrel was king; it was the San Joaquin Valley the late 50's, a wonderful time for the bird hunter. There were doves, ducks, pheasants and quail in the foothills. I gained a reputation as a good wing shot. My belief is that I owe that reputation to owning only one shotgun, a Remington 870 12 gauge with an IC 26" barrel. I shot pheasants and quail over a dog, ducks over decoys in the valley fog and doves as they came out of the grain fields to their roosting areas. I was, in a way, the one eyed man in the land of the blind.

WCH

Shooting pigeons is one of the most fun shooting one can do, IMO. Starlings are a lot like doves and they are very agile and can make quick turns. Put one or two small pellets in them and they may fly up to a couple hundred yards before expiring.. One reason the dairymen are willing to let us shoot, is that pigeons and starlings get into the silege. There is any number of grains and other additives in the prepared foods for the cows. While in the process of eating, the birds crap and infect the cows with salmonella.

Our main two dairies, have seen a huge drop in salmonella infected cows since we kill so may birds. I understand that feed lots have the same problems with birds as dairies.

By the way, my experiences have shown that small shot (7 1/2) really begin to peter out at anything over 35 yards with a IC choke. Way too many cripples to suit my desires. If one has the talent to center most every bird, then the smaller shot will make those 35+ yard shots with more choke.

I've noticed the same thing about 7.5 shot. I was always happy with it but ssometimes I had crippled birds get away on shots that seemed good. This has happened much less often since switching to #6 shot.

Fred, You mentioned 5's for Pigeons.. I used that size last shoot.. What size do you use on starlings?? A lot smaller target..??

WCH
When I am able to find them, #7 are the shot size of choice. My shooting partners and I have found them to be just about ideal. They do one hell of a good job on pigeons when using modified or tighter chokes, even out to around 50 yards on crossers and full choke.

I would encourage anyone who has access to try using 7/8 oz of bigger shot with lots of choke and see how effective it is at longer distances.

Before I got to be an old man, I used #5 shot on chukars, my main upland bird to hunt. I found that mod chokes and 1 oz of shot allowed me to make some of the longer range shots effectively. Wish I was still able to trek those hills and follow my shorthair. Plus I miss the interaction of our chukar camps.

Fred, thanks for the info.. I have some #7 shot on hand..

For squirrels, I would use as tight of a choke as I owned.

I need to use I.C. more often. I use light mod a lot and imp mod for crows and pigions and squirrels. I should use I.C. more for doves and small ducks. Thats the awesome thing about shotguning, so many combos.