Don't misunderstand me, I greatly respect and enjoy reading John and Brian Pearce, as well as Phil Shoemaker, Stan Trzoniec and Al Miller.........

But "Rifle" and "Handloader" lost a great deal when Ross Seyfriend left the magazine. Sorry to say, but Clair Rees doesn't cut it (lots of talk about brown bear hunts, but no photos!), and Mike Venturino, as good as he is within his range of material, does NOT fill in the gap that Ross left, at least not for a guy like me who's primarily interested in big game hunting with modern and "Classic-modern" rifles.

I guess I'm ranting a bit because I'm a little tired of the 'Cowboy In Africa' stuff, and Ross has experience to spare in the areas I'm interested in.......

AD

I also would like to see his return. whwy the heck did he leave, anyway?

From what was discussed in the past, it seems that there was a impassable personality conflict between Ross and the staff, so I don't think we'll see him again in those publications.

And as was expressed by most here, those publications lost alot with Ross's departure. I've honestly found no reason to purchase either publication since he no longer writes for them.

The good thing about Ross is that he really had some opinions.
The bad thing about Ross is that he really had some opinions.

Unfortunately brilliance and arrogance are often found together.

Rifle and Handloader without Ross Seyfried are like Monday Night Football without Howard Cosell. Seyfreid and Cosell may have seemed arrogant pricks to some, but the products aren't as good without them.................DJ

"Cowboy In Africa." I really like that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well said, Allan.

Steve

Allenday:

Seyfried didn't go far. He's writing frequently for Double Gun & Single Shot Journal. I've started subscribing, in part, because he's there.

+1

Regards, Matt.

He's occasionally in Gray's, as well.

+1 more

The Double Gun Journal is an excellent publication and the only gun mag I subscribe to anymore. It has a great mix of articles by professionals such as Ross and Fredrick Franzen (a noted Swedish gun writer) as well as "amateurs" who write with passion about their favorite guns. The thing I like best about it is that most articles are written by true experts in their subject matter.

If anyone wants to learn about double guns, this is the place to do it. From technical experiments to find the "blow up point" of fluid steel versus damascus barrels to the art of fine Italian engraving. From Ithica to Parker to Sauer to Purdey, they are all covered.

And also the only articles in English on Husqvarna double guns. (My personal passion).

HMMMM...Nobody from the Wolfe clan checked in on this thread yet? I sure wish Editor Scovill could muster the gumption to discuss this matter with us. Has he ever posted on any issue? I guess the old fool is too busy putting the finishing touches on Jack O'Connor Ain't Sh*t Part Two to check these boards out and research what the readership really wants to see in his magazines.

C'mon Dick...do the right thing, pick the phone up, call Ross and appologize for being a jerk. Tell him it is ok for him to rag on advertiser's products that truely do not deliver as promised and that it is ok with you for him to praise FailSafes if he is so inclined...then you can start writing your next story about how you were just too damned busy to read Kieth too!

I'll make a deal with you, if you bring Ross back I'll even read YOUR pieces and, to close the deal, I'll have a '95 chambered to a "something-something Scovill" and tell all of my buddies about how the genious who designed THIS cartridge never read O'Conner and ran the best writer he ever worked with off.

What do you say Dick...do we have an agreement?

His writing in the DGJ is superb, but I sorely miss his handgun articles. He is still the master of the obscure and finds ways to enlighten me.

Wolfe is not the same without him.

I see Scovill made a lasting impression on you, his name is Dave. Good point though.

Maybe he should change it.

Don't ever promise something that you'll regret later.

JimF

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> GREAT point!

Random Note to all who want Ross back:

One could and should learn from St Francis; Change the things you can, and accept the things you can't! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes in life events occur over which we have no control... You have about as much chance of convincing WOLFE Publications of rehiring Ross Seyfried, as convincing the State Dept to pull out of Iraq.

Learn to deal with it! And for goodness sakes, stop whining about it.

From my perspective, I couldn't care less... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I now step down from my soapbox. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Grasshopper

Grasshopper, you must care some; you read the thread and responded! (Not torchin', just teasin'! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But Pecos, how do you really feel about this? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, you have good thoughts there.

Well, Ross doesn't have to be writing for Wolfe for this group to be reading his Most Excellent stuff. I am thinking that he could even be writing here if we could find a way to compensate him for the work. Perhaps he retains the Internet rights to his work?

Yes, things change, but often the changes set in motion other forces. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

jim

Uhhh...sorry for my rant of last night guys. I just get irked that the old days of watching the mailbox for the new issues of RIFLE and HANDLOADER with true anticipation are gone (for now at least) because Scovill's inferiority complex will not allow him to to exist in the shadow of Seyfried in either of his magazines. I do not think "inferiority complex" is an improper assessment of the old fellow considering his O'Connor piece last month. Why else would he depricate the works of two acknowledged greats in the genre if not in an attempt to delude himself into thinking that his own body of work has comparable merit?

OK...I will not piss and moan about Scovill running Seyfried off anymore. I've subscribed to DOUBLE GUN and will look to that publication for my Ross fix. I've accepted my fate. Heck, I might even be forced to start reading COMBAT HANDGUNS again.

PS I know his name is "Dave"...the "Dick" thing must have been a Freudian slip...sorry.

Peco, no need to apologize. You spoke from the heart about something that was important to you. I think that is what this place should be all about. Not only that, but as I said, you had (and have again) some very valid points and good thoughts. Thanks for sharing. John

I agree I do not subscribe to any mag that does not have articles by Seyfried he is the best

I lost my desire to read any more of Ross's writings after he mindlessly bad-mouthed the 458 Mag.
Articles like that by any writer probably make people like Phil Shoemaker laugh !
High time he found another occupation...

I don't believe it's enough to be knowledgable about firearms to be a gun writer... the ability to write is also necessary. Ross fails on the second requirement IMO.

Ross never said that the 458 Win was not effective he just said that he did not like it because it had to operate at high pressure and for an African stopping rifle the high pressure was not prefferable.The 458 win has been known for squibs in Africa because the small case requires a heavyly compressed charge. As for his writing ability BRAD I find his style quite enjoyable and extremely knowledgable I also like his choice of adjetives

I've always found his writing style clunky and sophomoric... tough reading. However, I absolutely respect him as a guy who's "been there, done that."

Dunno what other folk consider most important about writers, but for me and mine, the most important is real information.
Seyfried harped away on some stuff that was either really dated or ridiculous, the .458 thing, boat tail bullets, and the pre 64 praise all were a little over the top.
That said, Seyfried was one of my most favourite writers for the information he passed on to ignoramouses like me.
Ross impressed me with his sense of ethics regarding the hunt, his love of wildlife kept him from makin statements that brought others down into the pits. Eg; one writer has said that elk are stupid. Well, I'd like to show Mr. stupid elk our ungulates, cuz they are anything but stupid.
Every time Ross decided to really write, it was like I was in school, but better.
I wish that all the towering egos would cast an eye down here to the insignificant readers. We don't need advertising sycophants, we don't need propoganda. We just need good solid information.
Glad we still get Pearce, Bernsness-and sometimes Venturino.

We all have out favorite writers and not everyone's prose is going to please everyone. That's just the way it is.

I do consider Ross to be a great writer, and I hope he produces a book or three before his career is over. I remember a superb story that he wrote for Wolf in one of the hunting annuals about his multi-year quest from a trophy Alaskan brown bear. It was a stunning, riveting story -- one of the finest hunting stories of any kind that I've read in my life, and it should be in a permanent, hard-bound book of classic hunting adventures.

The talent is there....

I'll also say this: Ross's brand of all-around hunting and firearms experience is somewhat rare in a gunwriter. He's been a world-champion pistol shooter, an African professional hunter, a professional rancher and North American big game guide, a world-class trophy hunter, and an advanced student of fine firearms. He's no fake.

On the other hand, there are writers afloat who ARE fakes. They have very little hunting experience, and they try their best to phony their way through that part of the program, even though some of them DO write like angels..........

AD

I've often wondered what the proper pronunciation of Seyfried is. See-freed, Say-freed, See-fryed, Say-fryed and so on. Anyone know how HE pronounces it?

He pronounces it 'SIGH-FRED'.

AD

Thanks, allenday. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Allen, ironically, I went hunting for that article last night. Found it and read it again. It's a great read. Phil Shoemaker has a great article on the 416 in the same issue. Another of my absolute favorite's.

They can be found in Hunting Annual Fall 1999 Number 3 if anyone is interested.


Chuck

I first encountered him (or his tracks anyway) when I went to Gunsite for the first time in '90. There was a life-size picture of him on one wall in the classroom (building "Luke" in those days IIRC), with the caption "You can't miss fast enough"; I understand that was a saying of his about handgun shooting.

I liked reading his work in the Wolfe publications because he could draw you into some technology you cared little about with the quality of his experiences with it and his descriptions of real use in the field. He intrigued me with things I was not "in to", the same way Skeeter Skelton could. The Wolfe magazines are poorer without him, at least for me.

He did get off on tangents from time to time, and some stuff he claimed just is not true to my knowledge. But so what: on the balance he was a large plus.

jim

Chuck,
It's odd that you choose that magazine to post. Ross's Brown Bear Article was an absolute classic that cemented my admiration for his work. I have looked high and low for my copy with no luck. Though I'll never forget the hide on the side of the cabin or the picture of the paw print in the snow... I'll no doubt be branded a Winchester Looney, however, when he desribed examining Morris Talifson's old M70 in .375 H&H, his Three and Six Bits, it literally brought goose bumps up on my arm. An incredible piece or work...

Thank you for the reminder. I'm ordering that copy from Wolfe today...

Regards, Matt.

Ross wrote some good ones including an excellent article on handloading the 45 Colt for big game. I believe he might have taken a buff or two with the 45 Colt along with a friend/guide.

Ross took an excellent muley not too long ago with an old muzzleloader too - over 30" wide or nearabouts (I'm sure it was on private land though)

MtnHtr

I think this is a very fair statement of what I usually feel also. There was no questioning his experience, but sometimes I myself found his writing a bit short of others.

I think it's interesting how often this subject comes up. If it keeps up I expect someone someday will write a column entittled "I never read Ross Seyfried". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I was at the NRA annual meeting a few years ago when it was held in Orlando, FL, and came upon the Wolfe publishing booth. I was talking to the guy in the booth (Don't remember who it was) when I turned around and saw Ross. I acted like a fool introducing myself and shaking his hand, because I didn't know how to pronounce his name. Very tall (I'm 6') but with a rather high-pitched voice. I'm sure I gushed about how much I enjoyed his writing and he, in turn was very gracious. But I'm sure I walked away red-faced because I never called him by name.

Great Post Idared

Soon we�ll deny that we ever read the greats (like Ross) because they had a controversial opinion.

I love to read his writing because he actually has an opinion and experience to back it up. Hopefully he is well and getting fresh controversial experiences to write about for a long time in the future.

It is funny that some feel he was not a �writer�, but IMHO if I wanted �fine literature� I would read anything but a shooting or gun magazine. He was always entertaining and informative and if he had an opinion it was because he had some experience with the subject.

I�ll buy his stuff.

I always enjoyed his writing, and learned from it too. I don't enjoy Handloader or Rifle magazines nearly as much now. If someone could convince him to write a book about hunting rifles and handguns, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

JIM!!! That was funnier than you realized! I agree completely that Ross would be a great addition to the Campfire, but holy sh**. Not only would he need his own room, or whatever the general subject thing is that we click on such as "Big Game" because the constant traffic would clog up an existing area. But he would cause a giant cyclone of turmoil with the members. It would look worse that the political battles that go on in the General area. Ross isn't afraid to tell it like it is. He's also not one to give up and leave like Bodington did after he was badgered. Ross would have running penbattles with every opinionated member here, and not be afraid to tell us all that we were dead wrong. It would truely be a hoot! John, Phil and others are very intelligent and TACTFULL gurus here at the CF. Ross has a few more rough edges. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I agree though, it would be awesome to have him here if he'd accept.

222

Touche' - excellent point and the same reason the 416 Rem will never equal the Rigby in Africa. A high pressure wonder compared to a moderately loaded proven success.

It has also been noted that the ONLY reason the 458 didn't fizzle out in the pan was due to Winchester loading copper coated steel jacket bullets... Had the 458 the same gilded jacket bullets of the 375, it may never have had a foot hold as a DG cartridge.

TM

While reading this topic I began wondering whether Ross was operating Elk Song Ranch, near Le Grande, Oregon. He used to advertise regularly when he was writing for Rifle magazine. After he left the advertising disappeared. (Probably not surprising.)
I did a search using the various search engines on the internet but was unable to find any mention of this elk hunting operation. Does anyone know whether he is still operating these elk hunts?

It's pretty much normal to exchange advertising for writing.

I beleive I read somewhere that Ross doesn't "do" the internet thing for whatever reason so it's not surprising that they don't have a web site.

Yes Ross is still guiding hunters on Elk Song Ranch. He is simply booked and does not need to advertise at this time as he presently has a waiting list.

You are spot on about the 416 Remington I read in one of the African hunting magazines the the 416 Rem had a problem of braking extrators apperantly because of its pressure according to the article

i thought his articles on the old rifles were fantastic. one of his last articles, maybe his last was about the finding of warehoused rifles from india.

he typically picked apart the rifles and explained to the reader each piece. their condition, what specific models to look for, what the prices were etc. by the time you finished reading the article you could smell the cosmoline that was used to protect those rifles.

he even gave a reloading lesson. i always liked the way he looked out for the regular guy, ie: poor folks like me that can't afford $5000 rifles and $2000 scopes. he and finn aagaard were my favorites.

both were opinionated but they were never condescending to the readers. other than mr. barsness there isn't much to read in handloader and rifle anymore.

there isn't one of johnny b's articles i don't learn something new from. they are always informative and up to date. thanks john.

back to ross, i miss him also, but like one of the earlier posters said, "there ain't a dang thing us folks can do about it".

thats my rant for the week.

Sometime back, this was covered pretty deeply by the gun writers on the board. Seems Mr. Seifried was insulting, insubordinate and just generally a pain in the butt in the office or at any social function. Muledeer and several others went to great lengths to point out the reasons why it was necessary to fire him; made sense to me.

That said, my Wolfe subscriptions are now just winding down. As an earlier poster stated, I'm tired of Cowboys In Africa. I've been tired of Claire Reese since the 70's and any one who honestly thinks Mike (AKA Duke.. deliver me) Ventorino is a suitable substitute for a gun writer is either dreaming or trying to keep payroll down.

I think you put these matters very well, Alonzo_Tubbs. As much as I have enjoyed Ross' work over many years, I think it's maybe up to him to find a mainstream published outlet, if that's what he wants to do. As indicated elsewhere, whatever he writes will likely get published, as it is now...

I'm simply sorry the split happened. It seemed a natural match, but....

In my experience, some of best, brightest, most trustworthy, and most productive people I've ever worked with have been "insubordinate pains in the butt" at times. But even so, at the end of the day or at the end of a project, I was almost always happy that I was working with them, simple because......... results matter, and they could deliver the goods, plus their ethics were almost uniformly superb.

The folks that can't get along with this type are usually hyper-sensitive, ego-driven individuals who are burden by various insecurities, who don't truly recognize and who don't properly value real talent. Pride is allowed to get in the way of finding workable solutions to problems both great and small.

In my opinion, trading -- in effect -- a Seyfried for a Venturino, while retaining a Rees is just-plain stupid.

That's the best they can do? Come on!

AD

THANK YOU Allen, you nailed my thoughts perfectly on the subject .

Sorry Stinger, you'll have to settle for Threadkiller 3! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Castandblast is #1
I'm #2

Maybe we could start a "club of shame"? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

222
(Threadkiller2)

222rem

sorry, didn't mean to enter your territory. i can live with #3.

"most of life is just showing up". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You're more than welcome in club----------it's really more of a curse! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Maybe with enough TK members we could get our own subject area where we could bring up topics and get no response! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

TK2

allen
Must agree with the idea of putting up with truly gifted pains-in-the asses when production counts and just getting over it. Your assessments speak to deep understanding of the human animal and its motivation.

The only question I have, is where does Ross fit that bill? His writing is plodding and contorted and he writes so much about the guns I have about as little interest in as is possible (levers).

Was disturbed to read his sorry excuse for writing in Gray's a while back... At least that is my opinion...
art

It was a sad day when Ross left Wolfe, for whatever reason. And speaking of reasons, there just doesn't seem to be much of one any more to buy any of the Wolfe publications, with the possible exception of Phil Shoemaker.

"Insubordinate pain in the ass" - yup, that's how many strong minded people who refuse to be "Yes men" get described.

On another note, it's good to hear that Ross is writing in Double Gun Journal - I guess I'll have to send my money their way.

jc

On previous threads I have vented on the utter uselessness of Mike Venturino and his ilk at Wolfe.

Anymore, the only reason I pick up one of their mags is Phil Shoemaker.

I hope that Ross is compiling some of his hunting adventures into a book. I know I would buy a copy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Doesn't anyone have anything positive to say about Clair Rees?

He isn't my brother-in-law.

JMac
That was funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
art

Yes, it was....

Innate fear of brothers-in-law?

Yep.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Prolly not.

One thing, however, he DID raise the price on possum hides. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Steve

Ross has had some articles in a couple NRA publications in the last few months. The magazines are Americas First Freedom and Free Hunters.

Ross does write for those NRA mags as well as Double Gun Journal,he has also written an article for a new mag called Under Wild Skies,and will soon be writing conservation articles for Honda

At least when he shoots the wrong deer the big one gets to live another day. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Whats next? Shooting his guides dog when he thought it was an antelope?

I wonder what the optics company (Kahles I think) thought when they read that piece. I doubt they'll ever let him test their gear again.

IRRC it was both Swaro scope and binos used on that hunt. Heck, he spent more ink complaining about having to eat bologna sandwiches for lunch!

I do miss Ross though I am sure he was as big a pain in the ass as many have said. Guess I will just have to shoot more and read less. Probably should have been doing that all along. Really tired of reading about the latest short and fat anyway - regardless of who is doing the writing.

I remember that now. I only suffered through that piece once. I think I only read it because he was shooting a Kimber and I hoped to pick up some info on these.

So...he misses horrendously with a very fine rifle and $2500.00+ worth of optics? No wonder he babbled on and on about bologna and cocoa for the whole piece. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

He should be writing for Guns & Ammo or Outdoor Life, not Wolfe mags.

The onlything mindless is mistating his writings on the 458 win mag. He justifiably describes the 458 win mag as being a sorry excuse for the NE rounds it was designed to duplicate. The case is too small to hold sufficient powder and operate in hot climates with loaded with 500 gr bullets.

If you read his article on the 458 Lott in Rifle, he clearly states that the 458 win mag was never as bad as it's harshest critics state.

The truth is the 458 win mag should have been the 450 Watts, which predates the 458 win mag by a few years, and is full 2.85" long case, and the Lott by a few decades.

I also miss Ross's articles, covering obscure subjects, and presenting his opinions, which often ruffle the fethers of sensitive types.

I also concur with Alan about those who produce, and those who would rather critisize others rather then own up to their own shortcomings.

I'd just team him up with Doug Miller! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Now that would be comedy...

Re : 458 Lott This is getting silly !
How can I be accused of mistating Ross's article when he admits that he's 458-bashing in the first paragraph ??
Why don't you read it again....or have you ever read it ?
Maybe with the powders and bullets available when it came out, it performed poorly, but with present-day components, I think it works ok...a lot of other calibers are better now than when they came into being.
Furthermore, if it's so bad, why does Phil Shoemaker write it up in Rifle # 208....was Mr. S trying to bash Phil at the same time??
My 458 took a 750 lb. boar Silvertip 10 yrs. ago...500 gr Hornady...one shot., so it works for me, and it will handle every size cast bullet that I make for my 45-2.1 and 45-3.2.
But....the point I was trying to make when I stepped on the toes of the Seyfried fan club is this :
I don't think any writer should bad-mouth any caliber...if you work in a gun shop, you don't dare do that, otherwise you might just lose a customer, and writers aren't any different, a proper technical comparison is not the same as a plain bashing...I'd criticize any writer for doing it.
So condem me all you will...That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it....As long as writers like John B., Mike V., Phil S., and others keep up their good work, I'll keep reading Rifle / Handloader.....and I won't miss you-know- who !

I find the writers unwilling to badmout anything boring.

I also think Ross has a very valid point that had the 458 win mag been made on the full length H&H case, there never would have been the problems the win mag had, because the case would have been big enough. That doesn't mean the 458 win mag isn't fully capable despite it's limitations, just that it should have been made without those limitations.

I have a great deal of respect for the late Finn Aagard and for Phil Schoemaker, and their very well written articles on the the 458 win mag.

I just don't see why folks can't acknowledge the 458 win mags shortcomings, and the fact that it should have been made on the full length case from the git go, as the M-70 was certainly a large enough action to handle it. That is what I see as the crux of Ross' argument, and which I fully agree with.

for me seyfreid had the ability to dissect a subject that i would have had borderline curiosity about and turn it into an informative and interesting read... he broadened my horizons continually....

he had the ability to convey a blended sense of time, circumstance, and purpose that altered my perceptions and attitudes towards many things... john w

Opinions are of course at least as prevalent as certain orifices, and it's surely a fact that everyone does have them, but I find it bizarre to listen to the 458 bashers. I had thought that that had settled down a bit.

Even when the 458 was first introduced, many questioned why it was designed with the short case when the action would clearly handle the 375 length case. One more than suspects it was part of the sales pitch of the recently introduced family of short magnums--something we're repeating today and apparently buying into with even shorter and fatter rounds. Still, one can only keep making the short case point so many times before it's just boring and pointless....the 458 Mag is what 'tis.

It undeniably had some problems early on with powders used, presumably as an economy measure and with some atrocious bullets. However, the problems were largely solved long before Internet Bwana Simbas leaped onto the 458-is-barely-more-effective-than-a- popgun-hobby horse based mostly on a couple of articles by Jacques Lott which set the stage for a stampede of the herd of individualists.

Would it have been a more versatile cartridge with a full length case? Undeniably---but it wasn't made that way. As it is, it's still more gun than most shooters can handle effectively.

Of course, when the 458 came out, folks treated it like it was little short of a shoulder fired field piece with as much damage to the shooter's shoulder as down range. Only the gods know how folks in mid-1950's would have responded to a 458 on the full length 375 case. Certainly the wildcat 45's had their following but it was surely too small for a major company to make a profit on. I reckon we were all weaker souls back then given all the folks today who shoot the Lotts, G&A's, and even the big 500 bores on 460 Wby cases and even larger bores with precision and speed.

It also really shouldn't need pointing out that most folks were taking the 458 Win to task for it's lack of velocity compared to the old 450-470 Nitro rounds using chronographed results from the 458 compared to the paper ballistic figures of the old Kynoch rounds without bothering to observe the blue sky in those latter figures.

Simple fact is, whatever folks have to say about it, the 458 Win carved out a major niche in the big bore field. It certainly helped the 458's progress that Kynoch discontinued production of the NE rounds for a while and 458 magazine rifles were readily and inexpensively available as was the ammuntion. As far as it's power, though, and most folks ability to use it effectively, one has to put a fair bit of credence in the professional hunters -- Finn Aagaard being one of the most notable--who preferred hunters to use a 375 for larger game since they figgered it was about the max calibre that their average hunter could learn to shoot decently with.

I certainly don't see folks on the ranges I frequent who handle recoil well even with service weight handguns and 30 calibre rifles, much less serious heavy bore rifles. Don't get me wrong, I like plus-40 bore handguns and rifles, but an awful lot of us kid ourselves about being able to use them effectively. It's all the more interesting with African game, since most sport hunters can't afford to shoot what was originally meant by Big Game and will use essentially stopping rifles for elephant in the bush to kill buffalo and lesser critters.

Personally, I wouldn't carry one of my 416's, 458's, or my one 470NE to Alaska---certainly not anything larger, but I'd surely be happy on a serious bear hunt in the alders to have the likes of Phil Shoemaker with his pragmatic, ugly 458 standing ready to handle an unexpected emergency. Somehow, I don't think any sane person would find him or his rifle wanting.

Cheers,

imho,
You said a mouthful.

Nice to see you here by the way...(grin)

Regards, Matt.

Ross was the first, that I recall, to write a detailed article on barrel break-in. Went through the procedure step by step. Had to recant a couple of months later in the magazines letters to the editor from the readers section as it was such a full of sh*t article and many of those knowledgable on the subject pinned him down to admit that he had no evidence to back up his break-in claim.
So many shooters still attempt to break in their barrels today based on pure horse manure. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Ross lost my confidence then and never gained it back. May he RIP.
GeoW

GeoW, when you said, "So many shooters still attempt to break in their barrels today based on pure horse manure," you made a very valid statement far beyond your intended context in relation to Seyfried's article. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (Would someone please explain to a computer illiterate {your obedient servant} just how I go about moving a quote from a post into my reply? Probably won't understand it, but thanks in advance for trying. John)

5sdad,

Simple and easy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Click on the reply button of the person you want to quote. Use your moust to highlight what you want to quote... Then hit Ctrl "C" (That's hold the "Control key down and hit "c". Then place your cursor where you want the quote to go; the scroll down to below where you are writing and click on "quote". You should see this: quote] [color:"red"]here [/color] [/quote. Then place your cursor between the "quotes" and hit "Ctrl V". Wallah! Done. Amazing how easy that is..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BTW: Control C means "Copy", and Control "V" means "insert" or "paste". (Control "X" means "cut") Hope this helps....

Grasshopper

GHopper - thanks for the info - will run it off now and give it a try sometime. If it is possible to foul it up beyond recognition, I will be the man for the job. Best, John

'Lo, Matt,

Getting about time to change the tag end of that call sign, ain't it? Send me an email when you get a break and let me know how the Virginian is doing out West.

Doing more shotgunning and fly flinging than anything else, but you oughta see this new 45 I'm toting. I'll let you know where you can see some photos of it.

Apologies for the diversion of the thread.

Trading Ross for Mike V was a bad move! All this ends up doing is allowing Rifle/Handloader to play catch-up to the cowboy action scene. (Nothing wrong with CAS, just about all magazines have cowboy stuff these days- quite saturated!)

I'm not sure who on the current staff is supposed to write about the guns Ross wrote about? Who on the current staff has the experience Ross has in Africa? I'm not interested in hearing about which scope might be best in Africa! I want to read about interesting firearms, like only Ross could write them. I've bought plenty of Rifle/Handloader copies because Ross had writen something. I've yet to buy one because Barsness wrote something! ~~~Suluuq

Ross also had a spot in "BLACKPOWDER HUNTING" (The "Official Publication of the International Blackpowder Hunting Association"), published by Bradbury Communications Group. He is conspicuously absent from that club magazine as well as Wolfe's two, all enthusiasts mag's. Purportedly, there was more than merely a professional relationship between he and the editor/publisher. If so, and that situation went south (or is that 'went sour?') there is little reason to wonder about that particular absence... WHEW!!!, 'nuff explanation about that for your humble writer or any other guy I know! Anyone else enjoying Ross's work in BH as well as Rifle/Handloader as much as I would miss him too. Jim Shockey does some OK stuff for BH (minus the silly humor backpage), but I'm getting awfully tired of seeing him featured in so many product ads... not to fault a guy for earning a living, but it lends doubt to one's authenticity in articles and evaluations.

I subscribed to Rifle and Handloader specifically so I could read Ross's stuff. His interest in classic hunting rifles parallels my own. When he left, I left. I will pick up a Double Gun Journal on occasion when he's writing about something that I'm interested in. I will echo what has been said about Ross and the internet - he doesn't use it. I had to write him a letter once about a caliber that was obscure to say the least. A letter! He responded within two weeks and was great - he recommended a load that I could use. The man knows what he's talking about and has opinions. Isn't that what a gun writer is suppose to be, knowledgable and opinionated?

John

I miss Ross. He is one of the few comporary gunwriters I read fo the sheer enjoyment. It didn't matter if the topic was about something of which I knew nothing, would never own or even want to own. He is a cosmopolitan writer who frequently leaves me thinking, 'I didn't know that', or 'Now that you think of it'.

I liked Ross stuff, his reloading of odl guns, he did a story ( the little flag) something like tha t about loseing his hunt spot to a golf couse, i can relate to that. JB

"I had to write him a letter once about a caliber that was obscure to say the least. A letter!"

Here is his e-mail address: R1313S@eoni.com

Bandukwalla,

I stand corrected about the e-mail - when I tried to get this from Wolfe (before he left) they told me me he didn't have one. Anyway, it's good to have.

John

From what I understand Ross has a habit of burning his bridges so it's doubtful you will again see him in any Primedia or Harris publication. If all of you want better writers with varied experiences call Scovill and tell him rather than bad-mouthing him and the current staff. I know there are other writers with REAL African experience, like Kevin "Doctari" Robertson, who would like to write for Rifle, Handloader and Successful Hunter magazines. Editors need to hear from their readers.

The real problem with finding "good writers" is their knowledge comes from their years and years of experience. When they finally put pen to paper there's not much time left. Like Elmer titled his last book, "Hell, I was there".
Regards,
GeoW

GW, I think you spoke a whole mouthful there. You know, it's funny, but guys who spend a lot of time afield likely get hooked on it very early in life, and just can't quit. They'll neglect to get schooled well, often, and thus aren't the greatest writers around, so it's hard to interpret what they mean by what they say sometimes. Funny how that works, ain't it?

It's actually pretty darn rare to have doers and writers be the same person. O'Connor, for instance, was probably one of the best gun writers of all time. Really good writing of ANY kind is a combination of many things, and there's a darn good REASON that we lift up such writers as Hemingway to such lofty positions of honor. Largely, too, it's an acquired talent, and much training and experience doing it is required to become really good at it. Only the virtual savants, who come by the talent "naturally" seem to have it flow from them like water. Music's the same. Ain't many Stevie Ray Vaughns or Dwayne Almans.

I have to say that, though it's taken a long time to discern what's meant by what was said, some of the best "learning" I've done has come from guys who were doers, but had poor teaching or even basic communication skills. Mostly, I've let experience teach me what they meant by what they said.

To plunk some quarters down for a glossy mag, the thing has to have nice pics to catch my eye, good titles to make me read the first paragraph, and a good first paragraph to make me read the whole story. We're always in a hurry today, and only what reaches out and grabs you gets noted.

Good writers are not too rare, but great ones ARE. I put ol' Ross in the "very good" category, but you often had to have some interest in the stuff he wrote about, so he'd never be as much of a general draw as someone like O'Connor, who was much more populist in his pursuits, hunting deer more than anything, but loving the bigger stuff enough to teach us dumb country boys to love it too.

Bottom line is, business is business, and I've come to trust MD enough to know that if he says there was a reason for the rift, then there was a reason, and it's just none of my business what it was. I can deal with that. Yeah, I miss Ross, but I'll live, and I wish him well. Same for Rifle and Handloader, too. I wish it were different, but it aint', and something tells me Ross did indeed burn his bridge, so I'll keep reading and hoping a really good replacement comes along.

And I'll keep listening closer and closer to some of those folks I know that many laugh at for their disabilities, rather than for their abilities and knowledge. Funny how it all works, ain't it? Sometimes you find Truth in the STRANGEST places!