I am going to buy a new bolt action rifle and would like some thoughts on both caliber and brand. I am thinking .243 or .25/06 primarily. Here are my requirements:
*Flat shooting and accurate (did I really need to say that??)
*I do not reload
*Ammo must be available fairly easily and relatively inexpensive would be nice (I dont want an obscure caliber)
*Workable for a kids gun (I have 3 kids coming up)
*Will use it for coyotes and deer.....maybe a kids elk gun???? but probably a little light for that I am thinking....do I want to bump up a little for elk? What caliber would that be? .270 seems a litte more than I want.
Brands I am thinking about are a Browning Abolt or Xbolt or a Sako A7. I have a scattergun to trade in so I am thinking something from one of the major mfgers.
I would sure appreciate some thoughts and advice both for and against.
I own both a 25 06 in a Browning A-bolt and a 270 Win in a Savage 110. Either of these calibers could meet your needs and any of the manufacturers you listed would do well. In addition; a 260 or 7 08 should merit consideration. Life is too short and budgets too limited to dwell on all the possibilities.
243 ,Remington 700,Tika T3 lite,savage axis ,you could bump up to 7mm08 and still fairly readily available
my wife and daughters love their Remmington Model 7 Youth in 7-08......if it wasnt for thefact elk was on the table i prolly would have went with a 22-250 or a 243.....and they all love that short lil Model 7 youth....
so is a 25/06 enough for elk? I like how it ballistically compares. As this is very likely going to be used by kids, any rifle that does not come with a bolt release lever is out. I dont know if Browning does or not. The Tikka is out because of this but the Sako A7 does have it.
How about the new Winchesters? Worth looking at?
The Tika has a bolt release lever
if you put the bullets in the right place a 25-06 will kill an elk fine, especially with todays premium bullets.....i dont think its ideal but ive taken my 260 out chasing them and in all reality there is a hairs breadth worth of difference between them in the field....
When did that change? My dad's Tikka which he bought in 08 doesnt have a bolt release lever.
.i was going to vote 243 for :
Good for deer and coyote
Easy two find and relatively cheap
The elk thing though nixed that however. I'm sure many elk have been killed by a 243 but I would probably think about moving to a 7mm08. If elk were heavy on my mind.
My T3 lite probably dates early to mid 2000's it's on the left side of receiver almost all the way to the rear
It seems your criteria pull you in different directions. (Deer and coyotes + kids gun) pulls you toward burning less powder, while (possible elk gun) walks you the other way. And it's hard to tell in advance which rifle will best fit a kid, much less three different kids.
I guess you could apply the old maxim that if you can afford to do an elk hunt some day, you'll probably be able to afford a new rifle for it when the time comes. As such, I'd suggest getting a 223 now, providing it's legal for deer where you hunt.
If you're really set on 1 cartridge, I'm partial to the 7mm-08. To me, 120's in a 7mm-08 don't kick much more than 100's from a .243, and they make a bigger hole. Also, those 120's wouldn't drop much more than anything from a .25-06 until you got out to ranges where kids really oughtn't to be shooting, anyway. If you go for elk, 140 TSX's are competent medicine. And ammo availability has been surprisingly good, in my experience.
Food for thought. Hope it doesn't give you indigestion!
FC
Based on your considerations (save for elk), I'd vote for a Remington 700 Stainless Synthetic of some sort; most likely in 243. A nice quality, versatile, forgiving rifle in an easy to shoot, readily available, and cheap caliber. It also shoots flat, and has little recoil. This combo would be great on coyotes and deer. I also like that the 700 has a pretty fast twist on the 243, that allows it to better stabilize the heavier 243 bullets.
From what you describe, I bet the 243 would be the place to start. Later if you want to hunt elk it'd be a perfect excuse to buy a second, more powerful rifle and begin to build the collection.
My limited experience with A Bolts was not great, and the two I've had both went down the road. I've shot and A7, and own many Sakos. They are great guns, and I'm sure you'd be happy with it.
Good luck!
Winchester model 70 in 7mm-08. It will give you the added safety of a three position safety and CRF would be nice as well.
.243. There's a wider variety of more easily available and, often, lower-priced factory ammo. The recoil's more kid-friendly, and so is the shorter bolt throw. If elk do come up, a .243 will kill any elk a .25-06 will.
The brands you mention will all work, but so will lower-priced rifles. Since just about every centerfire bolt action is available in .243, the options are almost endless.
When did that change? My dad's Tikka which he bought in 08 doesnt have a bolt release lever.
Do you mean a bolt release as the lever you push to take the bolt out of the rifle for cleaning, or do you mean a three-position safety that allows you to cycle the bolt with the safety on?
Tikka T-3s have a two-position safety and a bolt release on the left side of the receiver.
Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to clarify.
Anyway, I love my 7-08, but since you don't handload I'd go 243.
If you go with the 243, I suggest ~100 grain bullets, possibly one of the premium types, for deer and larger game. For coyotes, any size will do.
My pick would probably be a 7mm-08. In many respects, it's almost a 270 on a 308 case.
I have been looking at that Savage 5.5 pound model 11/111 LW hunter, its a specialty gun for them and they make it in 243. LW and detachable magazine you could keep in your pocket and let your child carry the unloaded gun.
I wish I could get them to make me one in 22-250 with a 1-8 twisted barrel.
When did that change? My dad's Tikka which he bought in 08 doesnt have a bolt release lever.
Yeah,its that button like thingy on the left side of the receiver.Push it in and pull out your bolt!!!!
I would get a 270, 708 or 260 remington. With the 270 at least you could get managed recoil factory ammo, for the kids until they are old enough to handle more. This supposedly reduces recoil 50%, and can handle deer to 200 yards which is likely as far as kids should be shooting. When every body grows up the rifle could be used for elk.
First guys, thank you for some great advice. A couple of things i didnt clarify well....I dont need an elk rifle, I have one already that I like. It would be for when the kids come with for elk.
What I meant by the bolt release lever is to unload the gun without taking the safety off. On my Sako, it isnt a 3 position safety, it is a seperate lever. Sorry, I did a poor job of describing that. a 3 position safety would be fine. To my knowledge, the Tikka has neither and you have to take it off safety in order to unload it.
After pouring over some ballistic info last night, I was leaning 25/06. Seems it has a little bit more of everything than a 243. But most of the advice has been 243. I was kinda hoping for a 25/06 landslide to make my decision easier! Then along come the 7/08 lovers and they tax my pea brain some more! But that is good, that is exactly why I asked. So now I have got 3 calibers in the mix.
Much of the conversation has been on calibers. Any advice on brands/models? I did see the note on the Abolt. At this point, I think I am leaning Xbolt, but that is because I dont have a lot of knowledge of the other brands.
So you pull the magazine and open the bolt.Do you consider that dangerous???
Tikka, Vanguard S2, or Thompson Venture in .243.
All affordable, shoot great, have decent to very good triggers, and are very inexpensive for the amount of gun you get.
There just isn't enough difference between a .243 and 25/06 for what you are describing.
Berettaman,
"Ballistic data" has very little real-world correlation to killing power on deer, or even on many larger animals. The three biggest factors are:
1) Bullet placement (at least 90% of the equation)
2) Bullet performance, but as long as the bullet penetrates into the chest cavity this means far less than placement. While a lot of people believe firmly that one design or another is the Magic Answer, I haven't found this to be so.
A lot of us base our judgements on cartridges on relatively little data, but the more animals I've seen killed by cvarious cartridges and bullets, the less difference I've seen in killing power from various rounds.
Forgot to mention rifles. Everybody's going to mention their favorite there too, usually based purely on accuracy, but my experience is that just about any mass-produced rifle made today is more than adequately accurate for normal deer hunting--and far more accurate than most shooters.
The biggest differences are in whether somebody wants a "classic" rifle, with a controlled-round feed action and nice walnut stock, or is satisfied with a synthetic stock and push-feed action. If the latter, there are a bunch of rifles costing less than $400 that shoot accurately and work fine. I'm most familiar with the Ruger American, which is not only made in America, but has a very good trigger and tang safety, and shoots very accurately. They can often be found for around $300.
Huntz,
The other step in that process is take the safety off before you throw the bolt. Is that dangerous? Everyone has a different tolerance for degree of danger. I think most people would agree that it is more dangerous than having a gun that the safety stays on while you throw the bolt. If this gun is going to be handled by my kids eventually, I see no reason to add in any amount of risk. My risk tolerance with my kids is pretty low given there are options equal in every way that do not contain that risk. I hope that answers the question on my thoughts.
I guess all I can say is don`t put a round into the chamber until you are going to shoot.Safetys like any thing mechanical are prone to failure at some point or you can just keep your finger off the trigger.I managed to raise 3 kids,get them into hunting and now 5 of my 11 grandkids hunt.They all understand firearm safety as they have been exposed to them since they were big enough to hold a firearm.Good luck on finding the firearm that meets all your needs.Huntz
The Ruger American comes in 243, 7mm/08, 308, 270 and 30-06. Of course, they could have added other calibers this afternoon.
I really like the value that this rifle offers, and for your stated purposes, I would go with the 7mm/08. Reduced recoil ammo is available and 7mm/08 ammo is becoming more available as we go into the future. In fact, I find 25-06 ammo is harder to find around here.
The Ruger American comes in 243, 7mm/08, 308, 270 and 30-06. Of course, they could have added other calibers this afternoon.
don't forget the 22-250
I really like the value that this rifle offers, and for your stated purposes, I would go with the 7mm/08. Reduced recoil ammo is available and 7mm/08 ammo is becoming more available as we go into the future. In fact, I find 25-06 ammo is harder to find around here.
I just bought one in 22-250 for my son,and one in 7-08 for me, or vice versa, when he gets older.
I like the 60` bolt throw, the tang safety, the detachable magazine, the light weight, the price, the accuracy.
I could probably find some other things. Oh ,the chambering.
When did that change? My dad's Tikka which he bought in 08 doesnt have a bolt release lever.
Do you mean a bolt release as the lever you push to take the bolt out of the rifle for cleaning, or do you mean a three-position safety that allows you to cycle the bolt with the safety on?
Tikka T-3s have a two-position safety and a bolt release on the left side of the receiver.
Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to clarify.
Anyway, I love my 7-08, but since you don't handload I'd go 243.
no offense taken,you are correct I'm talking about taking the bolt out for cleaning ,I may be in the minority but I actually prefer the bolt locked down when safety is on,my reasoning is in thick brush I've actually had the bolt handle lift,now again I'm talking MY personal preference I don't particularly care for 3 position model 70 style safeties
*Ammo must be available fairly easily and relatively inexpensive would be nice (I dont want an obscure caliber)
The extreme ammo shortages of this Obama Era have upended this old axiom that common cartridges are easier to find on the store shelves. Many times through these 'interesting times' I have seen both 'brick and mortar' and web stores completely emptied of every common cartridge but with good stocks of both ammo and brass for many obscure ones.
Pick the cartridge that you really want.
243 will do pretty much anything a 25-06 will do with less recoil.
The 7-08 has noticeably more recoil than the 243, if that is an issue for the kids.
I'd go 243. If you need more power than that, you usually need quite a bit more gun to show it.