I am part of a hunt club (5250 acres) that runs dogs 2-3 days a week mid Oct-Dec. I am a still hunter that cares nothing about hunting over dogs. After the first day do all the deer leave all of their territories and never act normal again? Do they leave the land and not come back? I get big deer on my cameras in Aug-Sept. The land is big enough that I don't hunt near where the dogs are. 1500 acres of our land is not dog hunted. I hunt there a lot. The dogs occasionally run there even though it is illegal. How much does a pack of dogs affect a deer population?

Runs them off. The lease I was on in AL had a dog running club east of our property. Ours was a 1000 acre lease. Bastard dog handlers would sit on the west edge of our land and whistle to their dogs. Phuggers would run thru our land every Sat. Would run all of the deer out for about 2-3 days. I ended up hunting more during the week. Stupid redneck bastards would always say there was nothing they could do about it. Called the game warden, same reply. It is illegal in AL to shoot them to. In writing and same reply from the warden.

If you hunt on the fringes of where they run dogs, you will see some deer moving. Stupid dogs ran all the way thru our property, so the deer we saw were moving at a high rate of speed.

I used to be in a club with 6300 acres that ran dogs. In 26 years, I never saw a really decent buck killed in front of the dogs or in the area where dogs had been run in the previous day or two. All the really good bucks were killed way away from the dog running areas or before the dogs were run or several days later.

We had the same problem on our family's farm (about 1200 acres) of sorry azz dog hunters turning loose on one side of the farm, running them across our place and picking them up on the other side, and shooting any deer, no matter how small, that ran out. The bastards doing it were real low-life slime balls and their dogs were never properly taken care of. According to game warden and deputy sheriff friends, many of the dogs had been stolen just for the season. And we were trying to have a Deer Management program.

Two years of antifreeze weenies and SSS cured the problem. We had registered cattle on our farm at the time and did not tolerate any dogs disturbing our cattle.

It will make them leave in a hurry. Big bucks can usually outsmart dogs, but they will not tolerate them very many times before they hunt higher ground. Most counties in Alabama have now outlawed dog hunting for some of the reasons listed above, such as running across property they are not supposed to. Not the dogs fault, but the stupid bastards that are handling the dogs. It's always the same answer from them too, we can't help it , Bullshit, they do it on purpose. And some of them will leave the dogs after the season is over , and then they starve. Wish I could leave some of them and let them starve.

The game warden we called said he was tired of all the calls he had to answer about that clubs dogs all over the county. I forget how much property that club leased, but it was a large amount throughout the county.

They handlers were a bunch of lowlifes and cared nothing about anyone but themselves.

The few people that lived around there that didnt hunt were always calling the sheriff on those dogs too.

Any dogs that appear within reach of my Beanfield Rifle get a solid dose of high octane lead.

The dic!heads that ran dogs thru our lease had tracking collars on their dogs and parked right outside our gates. The jig would have been up had we shot one. Regs clearly stated that shooting them was illegal.

Believe you me, I would have shot everyone of them if I could have done it legally.

Like someone said, not the dogs fault, but the POS that was running them.

Now at home in TX, I know its legal to shoot any dog that is "harassing wildlife".

What I find so interesting here on the fire is the diversity of backgrounds and hunting traditions.

From October to January hunters gather most every weekend in Europe and hunt red stag, roe deer, fallow deer and wildboar over hounds.

These are big drives with up to 100 guns attending. There will discipline, planning, preparation but also camaraderie and enjoyment.

Most areas will have 3 such hunts (1 every four weeks) during season.

Rule of thumb for calculating cooler capacity and meat processing is one animal/hunter/day.

Most important and valued participants by all in attendance, not only by their handlers, are the hounds.

Bred and trained to trail the prey with their nose deep down, slowing them on the trail, with loud and constant sound; to alert the hunters and to be a calculated risk to the prey.

This is the secret. A slow, loud dog will be outmanouvered by a witty animal. No stress excerted.

We cherish our dogs and hunting with them and our fellow hunters together.

The "automotive" replys sadden me. Dogs suffering human stupidity.

START HARASSING YOUR STATE LEGISLATURE.

Ready, I am a dog person.. An one of the things I have always felt I would like to try is hunting deer southern style with hounds.. From the comments here, it sounds like only thugs use that method today.. And the treatment of the dogs by these creatures is sicking.. While I have never hunted in Europe, nor doubt I ever do, I have always been impressed with the respect for game, the chase and those who participate, both animal and human the European hunters carry.. I see too often here some animal shot, poorly dress, slung in the back of a pickup, entirely with out respect for the game that has been taken.. Pretty sad..

+1 remember that when I hunted a particular property near Selma. Serious Dog problem and half were some hound or hound mix. I believe some SSS was performed by people in that area. I just can't bring myself to kill a dog , their stupid owners need a good whipping.

I've been a dog owner most of my life, but dogs chasing big game or livestock in MT. will not live long.

The use of dogs for hunting has morphed from the gentlemenly sport of fox hunting and the style of european hunting described above , to a way of moving all the deer off others property and slob like behavior spoken about above. I have a friend in Virginia that has taken as many deer as anyone and in his own way skirts laws, which I do not approve of , but even he claims the dog hunters in that area have changed to more slob like behavior and have little concern for others or their own dogs......

I love dogs. I f%#* hate dog hunters. If they could stay on their own land I'd be fine with it. Many a hunt on private land has been ruined by dogs.

Most dog hunting clubs in NC are totally legit. You can't expect to lease 1500 acres in dog hunting country and not have dogs run across your land. Adapt and learn how to use it to your advantage. I hunt in dog hunting clubs for the fun and the fellowship but I also hunt in managed still hunting clubs during the week. I have to say I'd rather hear a hound run any day than sit in a box blind over a corn pile or food plot.

Try spending $2,500 for membership in a still-hunt only trophy club, and then sit weekend after weekend in your stand while dogs with tracking collars run the deer half to death on your property. When you try making a fuss about it, the local Dog Hunters' Alliance tries to threaten the landowner. I have seen this crap for years in SC, and I'll never do it again. I switched states to avoid it.

Dog hunters in the south have ZERO respect for others, so I have no respect for them (or their dogs).

I've seen both sides of the argument. I've been madder than hell still hunting, when the neighbor's let their dogs run wild. I've also been on a couple well controlled large dog hunts. Dog hunting has a long tradition, especially in the deep south. Not all of it is bad. It's just like anything else. A few (or a lot) give the entire sport a bad name and image. There is nothing like the comraderie and exhilaration that comes with a well planned and executed dog hunt. The bad ones ruin it for everybody though.

SSS

I hear some guys set out conibears on their property.

Thats why I won't shoot a dog. Its not his fault. Damn shame you can't shoot the owners.

Of course its not a bit different than being on places that have folks come in and do farm/ranch things while you are trying to hunt. It ruins that hunt and usually another one or two. But they are not gone at least.

And yes I'd have like to shoot even our renter... I mean geez, feed his cattle at 515 pm on a Sunday when Its the only day I can sit in my bowstand.... And I heard you all day long on the other place where NO one hunts... but I digress.

I grew up dog hunting with my family and we really had some good times that I will always remember. We did it the right way but eventually stopped because of land shrinkage and the constant fights with non-hunters and other dog hunters, similar to the ones mentioned in the stories above. (We were in the minority of doing it the gentlemanly way) It seemed to come to an end when I was in HS but that was when I was more interested in stand and still hunting so it was not really a lost cause, only a lost art.

Any way, it was a lot of fun but we ran small dogs in small parcels, hunted with close friends and family, shotguns only, tried to implement some deer management practices with the harvesting of set rack restrictions and the taking of does. I am satisfied with the hunter I am and type of hunting I do now, so it's not a complete loss but there were some great, good old days that we talk about from time to time.

What really ended the dog hunting in our area was when the state of FL made it a law that your dog is an extension of your arm. This meant that when your dog trespassed, it was just like you doing it, so it dramatically halted most of the stories you mention about setting them loose on a border or pushing them through others property. Outlaws are still outlaws but it stopped the majority of the issues we had with the rogues.

When I lived in Lower Alabama I bow hunted an area hunted hard with dogs. I still managed to see and kill deer.

I was also invited out to hunt deer over dogs. Being from up North and never having the experience I gave it a try. It was different and I am not knocking it. Just not for me.

I don't knock others hunting styles, that is what the anti-hunters want us to do. I am sure not all hunters act in the same manner or have the same ethics.

That sums up my opinion.

Dogs don't make the deer "leave an area" for any length of time.

They actually have little effect on the deer's behavior when they aren't actually running them.

Here they mostly run dogs on a Saturday, and still hunt during the week in the same areas.

Much of the anti-dog ranting seems to come from those who really know very little about it

Yep, dogs put these girls panties in a wad alot worse than they bother the deer. Any excuse other than "you suck" is a good one for not filling your tags I reckon.

Drives are big up here and thats not for me either. But I am not going to knock it. To me drives and dogs are very close to the same.

I kill a lot of deer in areas that get driven hard too.

Please, tell us how it's done big man. Methinks we touched a nerve, eh?

In areas of Central NC and Central SC I have experienced the same over the years. As a non-member but a hunter on adjoining private property, I have been invited to hunt along with the members of each of the neighboring clubs and have found the members to be good and honorable folk. Does and young bucks get run while the older wiser bucks clearly know how to avoid the chase. After 3PM or so when the dogs have been retrieved, things settle down to the usual natural rhythm. What bothers me is if the doggers can't round up their dogs before 3PM. They are then intrusive and trespassing is often involved, and dogs left in the field in the evening often disrupt the evening hunt.

I have always wanted to hunt deer with dogs and buckshot. In my opinion it would have to be a good time.


Dink

I would like to run dogs for deer. And hogs.

Hunting with good dogs is one of the finer things in life.


It seems insane that people can run dogs on land without permission.

I grew up running dogs in north Florida and still love the sound of a good race. We shot some big deer in the National Forest and didn't run the digs across peoples property and if they headed where they were not supposed to go we tried our darndest to cut them off. Regardless of what a lot of people think the deer are not running flat out. Most of the time you would see the deer stop and watch and listen for the dogs before crossing a road or trail. It was mainly about the chase and comraderie. I gave it up because of the cost and some crappy people moving in the area. I will say I have killed bigger deer on the still hunting lease I am on.

Hunting with dogs was a tradition in south Arkansas that developed when there were few deer. Now that deer are numerous, the tradition is slowly dying. The cost of raising, feeding, and training the dogs is also a factor.

Through the '80s we ran dogs. I have often seen the dogs chasing deer and seen other deer raise up from their beds and watch the race. If the dogs didn't come their way, they'd lay back down.

With the big increase in the number of deer in our area we stopped using the dogs but there were many days when the deer were nocturnal I sure wished we still had dogs.

Louisiana has a split season. Still hunting the first half, with dogs the second half. Usually the dog season begins just after the rut has finished.

I watched a pack of dogs run 3 does in a circle around a block of woods about 5 sq acres

The third time around, the deer made a 90 degree turn and ran about 50 yds to one side and just stood there as the stupid dogs started around the circle again.

You could almost hear them laughing as they WALKED away and left the dogs totally confused

Exactly.

This is a vid of a roe deer "chased" by my late terrier.

Its all in there - the sound making the dog a known thread and the deers calm almost professional reaction to it.



Dog and deer never were closer than about 100 yards to each other.

I grew up with hunting dogs, including hounds. I hunted deer with a dog club in the late sixties in NC. I started hunting in Southern VA about fifteen years ago. I've defended the dog clubs for a long time, but my feelings have changed, as have many of the dog clubs that I am familiar with. In the areas I hunt, the clubs have a flagrant disregard for private property, just as the previous posters have explained. We pay for leases to hunt the lands we hunt, but the clubs continually hunt these properties.
To respond to the original question, we put up trail cameras on the properties and keep them up from September until mid January, usually several weeks after the season closes. We get a lot of pictures until the beginning of dog season. After that, we get no daylight pictures of deer. We get many fewer photos even at night. With the number of photos, we can identify certain deer by their markings. Many of these deer are apparently taken during the season. There appears to be no selectivity as to age, sex or rack size in the kill. Our cameras are often vandalized, with cards stolen and erased, so the continuity of our info is often compromised. I doubt the deer completely leave the area, as there is no place to go where the dogs don't run. I do believe from what we have seen that they go completely nocturnal, and the numbers of deer are strongly reduced, even on the properties that we lease.
Because of the poor behavior and aggressive and arrogant nature of the members of the dog clubs in the areas that I hunt, I expect this great tradition to end. Sad commentary.
Bfly

Bfly, there can be no defence for bad behaviour.

Perhaps you can separate the wheat from the chaff and the dog clubs recogniize a need for self control, standards and restraint rather then have their and our tradition of hunting over hounds banned?

This ^^. Idaho has 'practice seasons' where hunters can train their bear/cat dogs. They could tree, but not kill animals. Not sure about now, but it used to coincide with archery deer/elk season. If they ran their dogs through a drainage you were hunting, you might as well pack up and fin a different location for the next 2-3 days/week.

I'm not knocking them, just stating it created conflicts.

In our part of the woods hunting deer with dogs is a tradition enjoyed by many. Unfortunately the rogue hunters that do this are much more visible. This gives hunters using other methods a bad name. Law enforcement and hunters need to work together to make it uncomfortable for the rogue hunters no matter which method they use.
As to hunting in an area run by dogs, it stirs up the deer and gets some moving that would otherwise be nocturnal. For a while my favorite method was to get in my tree early and watch for moving deer when the dog hunters were unloading and slamming doors, dogs barking, standers being put out, hollering going on. When that first door slams, sometimes you can even smell their coffee, you need to be ready.
The deer around here can put the dodge on a dog and sneak out of the area. You just have to be familiar enough with the area and deer movements to be in the right spot at the right time. We call it hunting. Dog hunting doesn't create problems, if you play it right, it creates opportunities.

I will admit that I have seen deer run through my stand by dogs that I would have never seen otherwise, and it can get them moving when they're otherwise sitting tight. However, dogs are just another form of pressure, and what the still hunter is left with when the "rogue" dogs are gone is heavily pressured, nocturnal deer.

I have hunted over dogs when I was younger, and I'll be the first to admit that it's a lot of FUN. Lots of action, fast moving, and the camaraderie is terrific. Unfortunately, I truly believe that dog hunters, by and large, have very little regard for deer and for still-hunters. I've arrived at this conclusion based on years worth of observed behavior in both South Carolina and Virginia, and I just cannot forgive the "easy come, easy go" mentality with which they run their dogs.

I finally got tired of hick dog hunters telling me with a wry smile, "hey man, I can't control my dogs!" I now control their dogs.

Problem seen and accessed, arriving at the worst possible "solution".

Out of curiosity what does it cost to join a dog hunting club? Or a club that holds dog hunts?

Dink

Too much.

Landowners who wish to still hunt should be given the cover of law to deal with trespassing dogs, and/or a structure to punish dog hunters whose dogs trespass. The rights of landowners are far more important than the tradition of dog hunting. Dog hunters are bent toward liberal ideology in that they expect the resources of the private to be at their disposal, and think it absurd when someone mentions high levels of responsibility should be expected of them.

I have real mixed feelings on this issue because I dislike being told that the dogs can't read posted signs too. I have a blood hound and have had 3 bassets and when one of them gets on a trail they don't come when you call them. Their nose is bigger than their brain.
No one likes having their hunting disturbed. I don't care how you do it. Legislators here in Georgia tried to help by passing a law requiring Dog hunters to mark their dogs,trucks and have a fairly large area to hunt. That inconvenienced a bunch of people but the rogue hunters don't mind.
I don't have a clue how to handle people that don't respect the sport or the animals involved.

Hunting pressure changes deer behavior. I have no problem with dogs. However, if a lease is running dogs 2-3 days a week, it will definitely change deer behavior.
If I were a still hunter, and was in a club that ran dogs that often, I would be looking for a club that did not. A lot of old timers love to run dogs. I think they just love the dogs. I'm not one of them.
Bagels and rabbits--that's another story!

Here in south west Ga, I've never looked to the law for guidance in dealing with dogs during dear season. And in reality, it has never been a problem. Every club I was in from the late 70's to late 80's included dogs and/or organized deer drives at some point in the season. But when the deer population seemed to explode in the middle to late 90's, deer hunting with dogs just seemed to fade away.

This is true. I used to get upset by dog hunters running dogs on my parent's place without permission.....a dog club had leased the neighbors place. Then one Saturday in November, I went to see them, got there about lunch and saw the good old boys retrieving their dogs and I think...."no use to hunt this weekend". That afternoon I zeroed a rifle and decided to spend the night. The weather was perfect and I decided to hunt that Sunday morning just to be in the woods, and saw more bucks in that one sit than any other. Let three little ones walk and killed a 10pt....my biggest deer to date. The dogs had been run through the place less than 24 hours before and the deer were already back to doing their thing the next day. Decided from then on that if I was not seeing deer, I was just not seeing them.....not because the dogs had scared them away. I suspect as deer get bumped from their "core areas" by dogs, they start filtering back as soon as the dust settles. Have talked to guys who claimed to kill deer still hunting on Saturday evening after a dog drive that morning. Anyway, when I quit worrying about dogs and just ignored them, I started killing deer.

I can't stand dog hunting but I can empathize with them in a way. In a sense they were "here first" as people have hunted with dogs in the south since George Washington's day. Stand hunting came along about 40 years ago. Does not give them the right to trespass without permission or act like jerks but like anyone else, they love their way of doing things and want to keep it up.

As decent size pieces of land get more and more scarce, dog hunting will go away....heck it already has compared to 30 years ago, but don't be too happy about it cause rifle hunting will be next. Then we will all be bow hunting or playing golf.

There are laws to deal with intentional trespassing, but dogs can't always be controlled.

Some clubs abuse it, while others try hard not too.

I've used their dogs to my advantage more than once, and have never seen any evidence they "drive deer out of an area" for any length of time

Costs vary depending on how much land they lease, and whether or no YOU own dogs they can use

There are no set prices, and some clubs require you to be sponsored by a current member

Response; "Then you won't care if I control them for you?" Should wipe the smile off his face.

The landowners preference of allowing or not should be the only factor that is considered.

Dems fightin words right there...you best believe it. Aint no dog hunter gonna let that lie.

[Be prepared to] kick ole green teeth right in the knee. (Charlie Daniels)

This is the way I feel about it also. Landowner rights should be absolute.

A friend of mine owns around 5000 acres and is an ardent deer hunter, he spends a lot of money and time every year on food plots and maintaining roads, etc. for deer hunting. Dogs that cross his land don't leave if he sees them. He has a "shoot on sight" rule for any dogs seen crossing his land and he expects any guests to also. I don't mention if I see dogs when I'm hunting his property since I can't bring myself to shoot them and don't want to anger him by letting him know I passed on them. I do feel it's a landowner's right to make that decision however.

The argument that a dog's got a mind of it's own doesn't wash. Either figure out a way to control them or don't turn them loose. There's a 100% positive way to ensure they don't go on someone else's land...don't turn them loose. Once you turn the loose then you accept the possibility that they're going to be shot for roaming on someone's land.

In some states it's perfectly legal to shoot a dog harassing game, in most parts of the south it's not legal because of the dog hunting tradition. The law is wrong and needs to change, landowner rights should be absolute.

+1 Though my original question was how do dogs affect the territories of deer. (I find it interesting the pro doggers say it doesn't). Many magazine articles I have read over the years would caution "stand" hunters" to stay out of the "sanctuaries" and not disturb the area of the stand site too many times for fear of running that "big buck" out of the area for weeks. Seems to me with the dogs continually running through those thick/briar havens it would have the same effect. I was hoping one of the gun writers knew of a study that would shed some light. Not really interested in all the opinions on whether to dog or not. Just like with other decisions in life many times the real dilemma is: there is the right thing to do and there is what I want to do (and usually they are not the same thing). Ownership of land should trump all else. Now back to the original thought: How much and how long does any disturbance in a bucks bedding/traveling/feeding area affect that buck staying in that area, especially considering dogs rooting right through the middle of it.

"Pro dogger" is a false assumption on your part.

What I relayed was several decades of observation, but I never said I ran dogs myself.

I said it doesn't bother them because I can SEE that it doesn't, since I happen to live in the middle of a dog hunting area

What hunting magazines say about disturbing deer isn't necessarily true either, other than in a general sense, so don't make another false assumption they all know what they are talking about.



Hasn't that already been answered several times?

But you want me to make an assumption that you know what you are talking about "because you have seen it". I live in the thick of dog hunting country and my observations have been that once the dogs start running in an area goodbye nice bucks. I was hoping there was some type of data generated by a "study" that is stronger than a few opinions that are slanted (including mine). Calm down we are all friends here.

The fact you aren't seeing them doesn't mean they left the area.

Big bucks get scarce any time activity increases in the woods, whether from dogs or humans

Nor does it mean they remain in an area.

This is why I would not want to be in a club that runs dogs 2-3 times a week.
As you stated "Big bucks get scarce any time activity increases in the woods..."
If a buck leaves an area or becomes nocturnal that buck, has now become even more difficult.
Harvesting mature bucks is hard enough without added pressures from dogs and/or humans.

In answer to the cost: we lease 5250 acres for $43,450. $8.27 an acre in south central NC.

We have 20-25 deer cams scattered over the lease (the 12 of us that use stands) that show trophy bucks on the property until the middle of Oct when the dogs start running then only spikes, spindly 6/8 pointers show up. There are 40 of us; the other 28 run dogs Fri + Sat and some Thurs (8:00-4:00) This lease has been in our possession for 33 years.

In my area there are no clubs with decent acreage that don't include dogs. Our local game lands are mostly pine forests that look like they are ready to be raked.

I'm sure those informative articles were shoehorned in between all the glossy colored ads for scent lock clothing, anti-ass stink spray, invisa-flage, ect, ad nauseum.

Deer very rarely leave an area for more than a day or two. There was a study several years ago from the mid-west where they had college students survey a section that had been high fenced (the deer couldn't leave). The deer had all been individually marked and collared. The students did not harass the deer other than observing them and recording the sighting. The first couple of days there were a lot of sightings. After a couple of days of "hunting" the sightings dropped to almost nothing. The deer were still there, they just learned to avoid the students.

Rutting bucks will leave their home area at least once during the rut to look for un-bred does. There are a couple of telemetry research projects that back this up.

Dog running does not, from 30 years personal observation, disrupt deer behavior to the point of running them out of the country. I hunt public land that has a 3 week season that gets run every day, and there are just as many races at the end of season as there are at the first.

If you want to sit on a food plot or a corn feeder, then being in a dog running area is not going to be conducive to your type of "hunting". If you're willing to do a little scouting to find travel routes and escape cover, you might find that you do very well still hunting or placing a stand in these areas.

The bottom line is, you knew it was a dog lease when you joined. Either figure out how to hunt it, or find another spot.

How about suing the offending dog owners? If someone spends $43,450 for hunting rights, and some new guy in town comes in and screws it up after 33 years of successful hunting, then I would think you could sue for at least the $43,450, if not for consequential damages too. We don't have many dog problems in my neighborhood because people won't tolerate it, but I sympathize with guys that do, aspecially when paying that much just to hunt.

It's a lot simpler in my area. If a dog is observed chasing deer, the dog dies. Period. That crap just isn't allowed here, by anyone. Dogs are used for runnning rabbits and coyotes after deer season, but not during deer season.

Oh! the irony!. Sounds like it's the other way around. The club has been running dogs for generations and now a new guy comes along and wants them to quit because he doen't like it. Maybe they should sue him.

You both have it wrong. I am not a "new" guy trying to stop dog hunters; that is in others posts not mine. The dividing line (Hough Rd) for dog hunting in our county bisects our club 3750 acres on the dog side and 1500 on the non-dog side (the dogs still run here from time to time). I hunt both sides. I'm trying to figure out how to hunt it better, but if dogs are responsible for moving the deer north of our land onto other properties across the "Dog" line and they stay there till the pressure goes away (Jan 1)......

Read my first post about the study on deer movement inside the high fence enclosure. Are you sure that the deer are leaving? And, are you sure that the dogs are the only influence on deer movement? It could well be that your movements, or the movements of other hunters may be influencing deer behavior.

In the enclosure study, the deer and the "hunters" both had GPS trackers on. The hunters were often within a few feet of deer they never saw.

My guess is that the deer are still on the property, but they have worked out how to avoid you. I would scout the area extensively pre-season, looking for travel routes, bedding areas, and feed areas. I would try to place stands on travel routes between the bedding and feeding areas, and I would develop alternate ways of getting in and out from them, as well as varying the time of day I hunted. Try to never hunt the same stand twice in a row, and never stay in a stand if the wind becomes unfavorable. In other words, do everything you can to keep the deer from paterning you.

If the dogs are running across other peoples private property it's the dog hunter's fault. Period. PRIVATE Property paid for and owned by someone is not a playground for a dog hunting group unless they have been given permission just like any other hunter.

Guys, my post wasn't directed toward anyone in particular, and no offense was intended.

To me it seems like the people that pay to have the legal right to hunt the property should have control of how the property is hunted, unless the owner of the property specifically holds the right to run dogs on the property, or any other right specifically stated in the agreement. And there should be a written agreement, especially for a 'contract' of this value. Not having a written agreement would be very naive of both parties.

No one on my lease is arguing about dog hunting. Just wondering how it is affecting those of us that prefer a more quiet one on one challenge. It cost each of us a little over $1000 each a year. We have a camp (1.5 miles from a road) where small cabins and campers are year round. I have marked the corners with my gps. It is approximately 4.7 miles long by 3.6 miles wide. Rivers make two borders and we have 14 creeks. Most of the land gets timbered in sections every year. This was not intended to be a discussion about whether someone was for or against...Duke/Carolina....Clemson/South Carolina....

We were just having this discussion the other day and those who hunt the land I do feel the deer do not pattern at all now that the dog hunters are back, and are not seeing quite as many deer. There is a creek that seems to stop the dogs, and the deer seem to be staying on the opposite side more (not our property).

Yep. That's hunting pressure, and it does not matter wither it is dog or human.

Thanks.

Dink

Thanks.

I still think it would be worth it. Just something about hounds running, deer running and shotguns going off that I think would be a great time. Not to mention killing multiple deer each day. I live in the wrong state.

Dink

Every time I've ever done that, I promise myself I'll never do it again, usually about the time I finish butchering the first one

The couple of times I have hunted with a club as a guest, there were butchering parties at the end of the day, and everybody generally helped. The meat was divided up, with "shooters" getting their choice, the rest by draw.

As I generally hunt alone or with a friend, I used to dread the butchering until I discovered Processors.

Dink: The club hunting with hounds thing is a very social type of hunting, and I think that is an attraction to some people in addition to the hounds, which to me is like music.

I've tried it but simply prefer the solo hunt.

I'm a lowlife doghunter. I generally only read the gun writers section, as I'm not a gunwriter. I suspect most of ya'll aren't either, so I'll throw my opinion out there.

Any doghunter that casts dogs on private land to run deer out the other side is a sorry bastard. They give all us doghunters a bad name.

Any stillhunter that shoots a dog for doing what it was born and raised to do, is a sorry bastard and gives all stillhunters in dog country a bad name.

The best solution in every situation is for everyone to try their best to be neiborly. Doghunters shouldn't cast dogs where they have no chance of controling them. Stillhunters should nicely return dogs and nicely ask that it doesn't happen again. If that doesn't work, as a last resort, they should get law enforcement envolved. Everyone needs to remember that at the end of the day, we all have to live together. And peoplenfrom both sides take stuff pretty seriously.

As to the original question, any pressure from anything can effect deer movement. No matter if it comes from dogs, people, farmers, or whatever. The part you have with only a race through it now and then should be a gold mine.

I hunt 60,000 acres public land surounded on all sides by stillhunt public land. If our dogs get by, they go into 13000 acres that is only hunted on a few special weekends a season. The only accsess to retreve dogs is on foot. We see piles of buck sign while walking to catch dogs and see quite a few bucks during the day also while walking. I can only imagine what you would see if hunting.

I would use the forced movement to your advantage in the dog area, and maybe scout the still hunt area better.

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Same here -I'm not into group anything especially hunting .

As mentioned earlier ---I myself have seen deer come to food plots that had been dog hunted earlier in the day -although never a decent buck -skragglers and does only.

Talking about some dog hunters having no respect for anything .
I use to work offshore for a drilling company and went dog hunting with a bunch of roughneck coworkers from marion county ,Ms.. Hunting consisted of ragged out pick-up trucks ,CB radios , beer ,semi auto -pump or lever action rifles/shotguns.
Me being a transplant to mississippi from a cornfield in ohio --well it all seemed wild and crazy to me . Driving trucks down dirt roads -through people yards/driveways -shooting at deer running across peoples big country yards . Shooting at 'something' running through the brush -oops that was alberts bluetick -no big deal -jump in the truck and try to catch up with the hunt -80mph down a dirt road yelling on a CB -loaded guns bouncing everywhere .
DO NOT drag azz getting to the truck if the deer has already crossed the road --you WILL be left -happens all the time I guess -leave them here and that way I'LL get the shot mentality. Always go towards the front of the truck - that way they can slide to a stop and maybe you can jump in. laf.
Anyway this bunch of guys I worked with had not a care in the world nor did their friends/family who owned whatever land . They told me of shoot outs with land owners -people killed from guns -truck wrecks etc. -it was just a day of mayhem for them .
Certainly not saying this is typical of dog hunters but I went with them a couple of times and heard many "hunting stories" from them .

Went squirrel hunting with them 'once' I took a rem. 572 pump 22 , them -shotguns only for the running shotgun squirrel shoot.
Our derrick hand had a couple of squirrel dogs --turn them out where ever whenever -when they tree -they foot race to the dog/tree . What you do is run until you're close enough for the pattern to spread out enough to have a high percentage chance of killing or knocking the squirrel out of the tree -if you get there first shoot it first ---you're -the man.
Just came to mind - I remember a squirrel shot and fell into the fork of the tree about 50' up I thought maybe they might consider letting me see if I could knock it out with the 22lr -- sonny the dog owner looked at me while reloading his 12ga. and said --well shoot -he couldn't believe I was just standing there while everybody was unloading shotguns at the squirrel . A minimum of 25 12ga. shots were fired.
Crazy times hunting with that bunch -they truly had no thoughts of still hunting , ethics -anything -none of them had ever had a hunting permit that I know of.
They fished with a long cable attached to one of the spark plug wires of the boat and a big dip net -the old telephones had been taken away from them.
Here in NW Florida -dog hunters who are responsible about trying their best not to trespass use beagles . A beagle deer dog works deer slow and the hunter has to pay attention to normal hunting practices like wind and staying still .
Some people have gotten very good at this new kind of dog hunting -they scout and have studied what big bucks do to give the dogs the slip. It's not a group thing one or two hunters and one or two beagles.
They glass out in front of the beagles and kind of stalk -the deer most always circle and they use this to their advantage .
Over and out.

I will never shoot a dog for crossing my property or my lease while I'm hunting.

Hunting 60,000 acres of public land is not the norm in my neck of the woods. With what acreage leases for around here, leasing 1,000 acres is a BIG investment.
If a guy leases 500 acres beside me and chooses to dog hunt, it would be best for all parties involved for the dog hunter to contact me before he casts his dogs.
If the ajoinng properties do not want dogs coming onto property they paid money to lease, then it is the dog hunter's responsibility...not the dog...to see that does not happen. If he can not control his dogs, he had best not cast them.

I know hog and coon hunters who do this and problems are avoided.

I live in SE Okla about a stones throw from Ark where running dogs is legal. I've got several buddies who keep dogs and hunt Ark. I have hunted with them from time to time, although its fun, its not my cup of tea. The people I have hunted with are as savy about deer as anybody I know. And can and do kill them without dogs. Its as much about getting together with friends & family as it is about killing a deer.
My experience hunting deer in areas where dogs are running is that deer don't leave. I have also seen some pretty darn big deer killed in areas that dogs run in. Deer that were killed out of a stand and not being run.
I have no problem what so ever with deer dogs.

IMO hunting deer with dogs is more sporting than shooting deer that are eating corn out of a feed bucket.

That's right there is funny.

One of the big timber companies here in La is cracking down on dog hunting. In many parishes, this is the last year for dog hunting on their land. I feel other companies will follow suit.

Constant complaints from private land owners is what led to the decision.

Some of my family are in the areas affected. Even though many are in purely dog leases, most agree it will lead to better hunting. A prime example is a 9,500 acre lease my inlaws are members of. The lease is primarily for dog hunting, very little still hunting takes place. They get quite a few really nice mature deer on game cams, yet they hardly ever kill them with hounds. I personally feel when they are forced to still hunting only, they will finally start tagging some of their older deer as dog season opens when the rut starts in their area.

Hog or coon hunters had best not let their dogs run on property that they do not have permission to roam regardless of when or if deer hunters are asleep. I savvy the rest of your post.

Shooting a deer on a flat out run in front of forty hounds is definitely fun. I love watching them roll up! Where it gets fun is trying to find the appropriate lead with a rifle a 150-200yds out. You guys don't know what you're missing! Come tag along!

I'm not saying they don't get off of property where they have permission, or that they do. I'm just saying that if they do, it usually goes unnoticed.

Few things go unnoticed on a relatively small deer lease. I've had enough of my "secret" stands found and hunted in to know that.

YES it's extremely aggravating to have unwanted dogs and hunters trespassing on your property no question about it, but it's not an end all to deer hunting

Being a hunting dog owner (coonhounds, beagles & pointing breeds) for close to 40 years I can state in all honesty that hunting BROKE dogs on a piece of property has little to no effect on deer UNLESS they are repeatedly chased and harassed, and even them most deer will become nocturnal before completely leaving a home area.

I've coonhunted property (with permission) at night and have stand hunted and shot deer the very next morning - MORE THAN ONCE I might add.

I belonged to a Beagle club who's training and field trial grounds is on a 1200 acre state owned property that is INFESTED with deer. I've seen Beagles run rabbits within yards of bedded deer and they don't even get up out of their beds.

I have a buddy who owns a boarding kennel with 8 outside kennel runs. There is a foot wide 4" deep deer path within 15 feet of the end kennel.

Kill, kill, kill all god damn dogs on sight. White trash hog hunters run dogs who turn them loose on county roads and use them to TRESPASS. I like to kill hogs too, but I do it on my own property. For some reason dog hunters don't seem to understand that when their dog crosses our fence they are trespassing.

They finally changed the law last year to make dog "retrieval" trespassing. Now we just kill them and laugh. Any dog on our land is by definition running our livestock.

Most States in the north do not allow hunting deer with dogs and a dog spotted chasing deer is almost certainly going to be shot.

[quote=conrad101st]Kill, kill, kill all god damn dogs on sight. White trash hog hunters run dogs who turn them loose on county roads and use them to TRESPASS.]

Kind of like popping a kid's balloon blocking your view at a ball game. Confront the parent, not the kid. Shooting someone's dog, regardless of how poorly that someone takes care of the dog, seems weird to me.

Please take this with a grain of salt, as I'm from Ohio where other than the occasional feral dog we don't have this issue.

Youve never experienced some group of dickheads intentionally running their dogs thru your hunting land, so you dont know how pissed off you can get.

That's no excuse to act like a bigger dickhead by shooting the dog that knows no better

^^This +1 I don't shoot the dogs, but it is incredibly frustrating.

If I ever experience being "pissed off" enough to kill someone's dog that isn't putting me or my family in imminent danger and merely inconveniencing my hobby, I'll look for new hobbies. Anger is an emotion that should not dictate the pull of a trigger.

Feral dogs are one thing, but a man's property is another.

I never shot any of the offending dogs, so lighten up Francis.

After talking to the Game Warden, there was nothing we could do.

The guys on our lease realized that the dog hunters were a bunch of azzhats, and we left it at that.

Obviously, running dogs to hunt deer raises a lot of passions. I have seen the good & the bad. When I first stated hunting in Southern Virginia in the early 60's there were few deer & using dogs was about the only way for a club to shoot even a few deer for the short 2 week season. Never were dogs put on private property on purpose & seldom was non club property invaded. Later I joined a large club with over 12,000 acres & again private property was never invaded by the dogs. A core area(3000 acres) in the center of the property was not hunted until the last week of the season. This allowed many deer & especially big bucks to have a sanctuary. Deer were hunted from stands during the week & I believe having a sanctuary allowed nearly natural deer movements. Now the ugly. I began to trophy hunt on large well managed properties on the Virginia & North Carolina border & in North Carolina. Locals ran dogs any where they pleased & no trespassing signs meant nothing. A standard comment was "My daddy & granddaddy hunted this property & by God I will too". On those rare occasions when a warden responded no action was ever taken. Groups of dogs & hunters crossing club property definitely destroyed any still hunting opportunities that day. A large farmer in NC got tired of having his roads destroyed & property trespassed on so with his farm cooperative almost succeeded in having dog hunted banned in his county. His farm equipment was shot up, glass put in drive ways & steel stakes driven into his fields. Again, nothing was ever done by local authorities. I have a lake cottage in NC & locals release dogs on right of ways where posted signs exist regularly. I have seen hunters sitting in lawn chairs in the middle of rural highways with their rifles & a beer. One local hunter that runs dogs told me a big buck was on a given property that was posted & he was damn well hunting him with his rifle during bow season. He explained that if he didn't some of his friends would. Unfortunately, many rogue hunters use dogs to push deer on private property as only one way to violate game laws. If dog hunted was outlawed they would still trespass, hunt at night, use guns during bow season, & shoot over their limit. Dog hunting on private property is only a part of illegal hunting activities.

And that other man should mind his property. A dog is just that, a dog. Not a person. A phoucing dog.

Landowners have always told me to shoot dogs if they see them chasing deer. Or cattle. Or anything else.




Travis

I never said you did
What I said remains true

So, your name is Francis?

You're right, we should just shoot the slobs with their overalls tucked in their boots who run their dogs on our property, but I have an adversion to prison. ;-)

You have no idea. Here these numbnuts run up and down the section line roads every weekend with a pack of big dogs with leather vests in their truck beds looking like war dogs out of Conan. Then they turn em loose like its 1925 Appalachia and they want to run all over your property that you have put food plots on to keep the game animals on your property b/c you are managing the herd for big bucks. They cut your fences to retrieve their ill gotten meat and leave ruts in your hayfields. They are disturbing (running) our livestock and game animals and that's all there is to it. Then even killed our domesticated pig that we kept as a pet two years ago. Dogs see pig and don't know if its feral or not.

You catch the bums on the game cameras but the sheriff won't do squat.

You have to show them whose boss and that you won't roll over on vigorously defending what's yours. They are like the terrorists. No sir, you are not in our shoes.

So how many dogs have you killed, and has it solved the problem at all?

How many big spreads of land have you owned, planted food plots, and managed for whitetails where the local dirt-bags repeatedly ran dogs across your property and wouldn't stop, and the local law enforcement did nothing?

Sadly....this ain't 50 years ago!!

50 years ago a lot of states didn't have a huntable population of
Whitetail Deer

This sounds like an awesome place to hunt.