Folks:

I'm thinking really hard about one of these. Any opinions?



Mike

You haven't bought it yet? Geesh....

You're looking at a rather exclusive product with a high price tag. If you can afford it, you will smile on the other end of the deal.

I'm poor, but a neighbor is not and has two of about 5 yrs age. They are at the top end of the quality pyramid in fit, finish, reliability and precision, even with the chintzy wood stocks. ( ) Tongue in cheek there, the wood is fantastic.

From another perspective, you won't make money selling an almost new Savage. You won't lose money with a Dakota.

Recently at the DSC convention I spoke with a few guild members about Dakota. All praised the rifle as being excellent for a "production" rifle. However, they did agree in their opinion of the older Dakotas being superior to current offerings. The main concern was build consistency and accuracy as of late.

They are beautiful rifles.

I'll lose my "looney" creds for this, but I generally gravitate to one rifle and let it go at that. I might as well let it be one of these, right?

It's a lot of coin, though, you're right. I'll be doing overtime on weddings and funerals!

Seriously, though, I'm interested in what anyone might be able to tell me about the actions. I have 7x57s in M98, M70, and MRC1999. Any comparison?

If I'm not mistaken, they had some functional issues.

Isn't Dakota now under the same ownership umbrella as Remington? If so, that may be a reason for the current offerings not being up to par.

drover

I recently had an opportunity to purchase an "older" Dakota 76 in .416 Rigby. (1999?) I may only shoot one bullet through it that really counts, but I want that ONE bullet to REALLY COUNT with a dead Cape Buffalo on the receiving end later this year.

They are truly a work of art IMHO.

donsm70

Nice rifle.

I traded for a .270, not as fancy as that one, but pretty nice. Mine didn't have the express sights. I didn't use it and it went down the road, traded for an Ed Brown Damara, .300WM, a rifle that I really like and one that I use.

That was pre-Fire days when I didn't know about the .270's tainted profile...

I've had and have guns that are too nice to take in the woods. If you're going to be hesitant to take it hunting, you may want to re-think this deal.

Besides, what's the Bishop gonna think when you show up with a high dollar rifle, better than his...?? He may cut your wages...

DF

I don't know about the present 76's, but the original rifles made when Don Allen was at the helm of Dakota sometimes had functional problems. I know this because of several friends who owned them, and a well-known gunsmith who had several in for "fixing" various OTB problems the first time I visited his shop. The only one I ever shot much functioned fine, but wasn't outstandingly accurate.

The new ones may have eliminated the glitches. Many models of rifles have started out with functional problems, but fixed them quickly enough to become quite popular.

I have two, both in .338WM, I bought my first new in May, 1994 and my second, a fancier version, last June, used but, 98%.

They SHOOT, consistet sub-moa with max. 250NPs and the older Trophy Bonded.

They have beautiful balance, handle like a fine sidelock 20 bore and function flawlessly, although the first neede a stronger W spring.

This action, plus the old Brno ZG-47 are THE best factory big game hunting actions ever made and the rifles are much superior to anything close their price point.

The pair I now have is closer to the "perfect" BC rifle than anthing else and I carry mine a lot, even with dozens of higher end big game rifles in my safes.

JMHO, but, try one, you wll probably like it.

Well, that is a thought - the wood issue. I have it priced in both their "xx" and "xxx" grade wood. Frankly, if I could find someone to rework my existing Zastava M98 or MRC ASR into something like that, I'm not sure I wouldn't take that route instead. But, as they say, life's too short to hunt with ugly rifles.

As for the Bishop, well, it'd be hard 'not' to go into the woods with a better looking rifle than his. He's shooting a Ruger American.

OUCH!

Obviously not a Loony...

I don't know if Karnis is able to do stocks, but if he is, reworking one of your existing would be tempting and a better use of resources, IMO.

DF

I haven't seen anything of him on the 'Fire for a long time. It's not just a matter of the stock, though. I'm after the rest of the "express" set-up as well.

Express stuff looks cool, but with the type of hunting we generally do, not much need to release the scope and head into the bush with irons...

I still like the looks...

DF

Here is mine,bought in Oct 1994,got it Feb 1995. 7mm Dakota and a Leopold 4.5-14x.



What caliber/cartridge are you looking to get Rev?

maybe so Dan, but you do have a 7x57 Mauser that is a work of art in my opinion!

There has been one used .270 M76 at a local dealer for a couple years. I think it's a little over $3k. The wood is quite plain.

I think in general they over-rate their wood. Did I mention I am a wood slut? I've seen Dakota call wood XX grade, that would be called "decent" by a Ruger #1 owner. here's an example:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=464588721

In fairness, there have been some Dakotas out recently that seem better - this one is honest to God exhibition wood:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=464165855

I nearly bought a Model 10 in 7mm Dakota a few years ago, but could not quite swing it at the time, It was a little over $3k and had good wood. I collect single shots so a Model 10 is on my wish list.

Because of the weight of a M76 action, I think I would lean toward it for medium bores & DG cartridges, more so than general deer-sized game. The M76 Traveler take-downs are pretty interesting, though spendy. You can have more than one barrel & caliber for a different action, as long as the case heads match - for example a 7mm STW, and a .375 H&H, Or a a .338 Lapua and a .416 Rigby.

Agreed, was going to post much the same, these rifles make outstanding .300 mags, ,338s, ,375s and so forth, but, are a tad weighty in, say, .270Win.

They are IT for the superb, outstanding and perfect .338WM, the best cartridge for serious hunting.....

Personally I would look for a nice used one.You could probably find one at about half the price of a new.I have had two used ones and they were the most accurate out of the box rifles I have ever owned.My friend bought a used one in 270 Win. and the stock had a slight crack in the butt.He sent it in to them and they put on a new stock of much better wood than was on it before.Completely re blued it and sent it back at NO CHARGE.Now thats is pretty cool,I would say.

I had this 1989 vintage 416 Rigby for some time. It functioned very well and was as accurate as needed. Also very well put together. I bought it used for a song when I was living in Houston and sold it for two songs to a guy in SoCal that was going to hunt buffalo with it. He did and now he has it for sale at Champlin's, ad below. The Dakota was replaced with a NH Win M70 416 Rem.

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default...amp;mid=409&StyleID=2&GunID=2600

SNAP beat me to it, as did others. Pretty rifle, but heavy, and not any better than a good 98 Mauser for function.

I'm eyeballin' an M10 in 7x57 right now. Could buy 3 Ruger #1s for the same money, but Ruger #1s are not quite Dakota 10s. I love the over-center toggle locking, and the slim lines. Makes me drool like a fool.

Check out hendershots.net as they usually have several new and used ones so you can see what the rifle you buy looks like.

They are basically a Model 70 and from memory they differ to the M70 in the breeching sytem which is M98 style.

I have a M76 in 257AI that I bought in the early 90s. I have hunted with it a lot and really like it. But , IMO, it's overpriced and I would not buy another. It has occasional feeding issues, and the accuracy is ok, but not noteworthy.

I would buy a "shooter" pre64 M70, and then fix it up the way you like. You'd likely be money ahead.

I would also take a look at Cooper's new CRF rifle. Haven't seen any pictures yet but I am sure it will be made well and look great.

I have two, a .30-06 Classic and a .257 Roberts Alpine. Fit and finish is excellent and I don't think they are that heavy for a wood stocked rifle. I have fired several hundred round in each with no function issues. The accuracy of the .30-06 is "so-so" but the Roberts is excellent.

RevMike: Re: your question about the action of the 76: Don Allen and his partner really tried to take what they thought were the best design aspects of the pre-64 model 70 and 98 mauser into one action. However, if you look at a piece by piece aspect, there appears to be more M70 in it than 98. I think these are the basic components:

1) receiver shape: M70
2) recoil lug: M70
3) safety: M70
4) trigger: original M70
5) rear tang: pre-war M70
6) extractor: M70
7) ejector location & design: M70
8) bolt stop & release: kind of its own
9) breeching: Mauser with the receiver ring internal collar
10)gas handling: I'm not sure about where the gas ports are, but the bolt sleeve has a mauser type flange to divert gas that comes back towards the shooter I believe
11) bolts: they are NOT a one piece bolt. At least the current ones. The early ones MIGHT have been but I'm not sure with that either. Current bolts are 2 piece: the handle and the rest.
12) receivers: I believe they are CNC machined from bar stock but I'm not 100% certain on this.

Perhaps others on this site can correct me if I'm wrong on these, or add to any more action details I may have forgot.

I think those are the primary action components. When the 76 came out, there were very few if any of the newer type controlled round actions out there like today: the old Ruger tang safeties were not crf, the 70 classic hadn't come yet and I don't know if the CZ's were available as they are today. It was pretty much either a pre-64 or a highly refined 98 for the true customs.

I've always thought it hard to understand that the custom builders didn't seem to flock to the Dakota like I thought they would. It has been used a fair amount, but not hugely. It's interesting that the two custom builders who are considered pretty much on top, David Miller and D'Arcy Echols have pretty much stayed with M70s. That says quite a lot.

You hear from time to time that Dakotas have had accuracy issues, but I have no experience with that. At one time they used Shilen barrels and still may.

As far as aesthetics, they are indeed quite the lookers to those who have classic tastes. I'm not convinced that for the money difference that they're worth that much more. But of course, love is blind. And if you are indeed a pastor, you surely know that "things" never satisfy. Hope this helps a little.

Good Luck.

I went to the shop in Sturgis last fall. I had bought a replacement shroud and flag safety. It would not screw on to my 1909 Mauser bolt. They make them,so I called to see why it would not work. The guy I talked to was Travis and he said sometimes they have to go through their stock of parts to find one that fits. I was going to go to Deadwood anyway so I stooped by. He took me out to his house to find a tap that might work on the one I had bought. We went back to the shop and it would not work. So he brought out sacks of them and we tried several before we found a couple to fit. He then took mo on a tour of the shops and I saw some absolutely beautiful rifles and got to talk to the different shop help. One gal was using a rasp to shape the stocks. Pretty hands on I thought. Rough out with machine the finish by hand. The gal doing the checkering sure did a great job and showed me several patterns she would do. Travis did the final assembly. Then another guy took them to the bench to test fire. They were really friendly and all were very good craftsmen and women that really took pride in their job. They were so nice and took quite a bit of time with me. Their rifles are top notch, as are the people putting them together. I am very impressed with the work on their rifles.

I think that Miller and Echols use Classic 70s for several reasons, including some "political" ones......

Don and Norma Allen, were not always popular among many of Don's contemporary gunmakers and their outstanding 76 action is fairly costly as a starting point to build a $30K rifle on.

That said and with custom Classics, P-64s by the dozen and genuine Oberndorf sporters, etc, in my collection, the D-76 impresses me and were I younger, I would buy 2-3 more of them.

Thanks for all the posts. I've been out all day, but Ken here are the specifics I gave to DA:

Caliber: 7x57
Barrel Length: 23 inches from the front of the action
Twist: 1.866" (i.e., 1:220mm)
Hooded ramp sight (banded) with fiber optic bead
Quarter rib with three leaves, regulated 50, 100, 200 (with 175 gr. Federal factory loads)
XX stock "without" drop belly - 14.5" LOP, bedded
XXX stock "without" drop belly - 14.5" LOP, bedded
Front barrel band swivel
Cross bolts (or plugs)

I'll have to fine tune from there. I'll respond to the PMs in te morning.

Looks good Rev.

My IPad is going jiggy here so didn't read all the posts but I know of a former Dakota 'smith now working for himself who can take a Zastava action and turn it from a sow's ear into a silk purse. Relatively speaking of course.
Unless he's moved, I have his contact information.

I have had one in 416 Remington for almost 15 years. When I first got it, it wouldn't eject a loaded round. The loaded 416 Rem was too long to make it out of the action. I sent it back to Dakota and when I got it back, it worked slick as butter.

It is a mite heavy, but that helps preserve scopes. I had a 416 Taylor, that was a little lighter than the Dakota, and it was death on a scope. There is not one thing I would change on it and I would love to have a matching rifle in 280 Remington.

Had one in 280...........badly regret that I sold it, great rifle.

If you can afford it, buy it...........now.

MM

Had two...a 30/06 and a 7mm Dakota. Both shot well, functioned well.

I can't quite bring myself to pay the $6-$7 grand for one today, since I can build or shop the used market for a better custom at that price, but that's just me.

I can't exactly recall exactly, but a friend of mine who owned a couple of them, mentioned something about the differences between the Dakota and a M70 action, something about lacking the anti-bind "bulge" of the 70. Bob?

This is correct At least for my M76.

jorg I can't remember to be honest but think southtexas is right.I don't have one here to look at.

Here and there you hear someone complain about function. I never experienced it. There does not seem to be anything inherently flawed in the design far as I know, that causes this. I think it's just that sometimes a rifle sneaks out that does not get the final touches (by hand) that about any CRF needs to be "perfect".

Thanks S Texas & Bob. I like the rifles, I was just checking to see if my memory was accurate.

My Dakota does not have the anti-bind "bulge" on it.

That helps a lot, thanks!

One of the things I want to make sure of is that the irons are actually usable and not merely cosmetic. A lot of that is going to be a function of stock design. In my particular hunting environment there are times when open sights come in handy.

Thanks again.

Rev,get a Leopold 1x-4x scope. That is what is on my .375 H&H.

I have a 1.5-5 VX3 on a Ruger No. 1 that might work too.

The quarter rib limits scope choice. You almost have to use a straight tube, low power scope, as there isn't much room for an objective of any size without using very high rings. Quarter rib also adds weight. I'm not fond of them, functionally speaking, but do like the Safari look...

Irons may not be that useful for most North American hunting applications.

Everything is a trade off, one way or another.

DF

All the #10`s I have seen ,seem to have a better chunk of wood than the 76`s.

My 280 weighed 7.5 Lbs bare naked.Not really terrible .

That is 8.5 lbs. scoped, try to pack that up BC mountains for a few days, through 8 ft. Devil's Club, "Slide Alder" and snow to your knees and then see what you think.

I think the configuration would work pretty well in my specific hunting situations. It isn't likely I'll ever be heading to Africa, and where I hunt - I try to get out at least once per week all year round - a long shot is 150 yards. So it's rare that I ever dial up from about the lowest setting on a scope, and if for some reason a porker makes it into heavy brush or palmetto, the scope is probably coming off anyway. In my hunting environment, a low power, straight tube scope is about perfect, especially if it has an illuminated post and crosshair or German 4 reticle.

Right now I'm just exploring. What you said about having one of my current rifles reworked without a doubt makes the best sense. While I have a M70fwt and Montana ASR, for some reason I continue to grab the Zastava M70 (M98) when I'm heading out the door. I think probably the main reason for that is the design of the stock. It's a Monte Carlo with a LOP of 14.5 inches. I'm rather long-armed and it just feels better than the other two. That may be a function of weather as much as anything. Right now it's 76 degrees outside and I'll be hunting this evening in shirtsleeves.

So what would it take to have the Zastava reworked? I would expect have the action trued and tuned, cut the existing stock down so the fore end is more British style and fill in the gaps around the inletting (not a Serbian strongpoint), make sure the comb isn't too high to actually be able to use iron sights, put on a quarter-rib and hooded f/o banded front sight, and move the forward sling swivel out to the barrel. I have no idea what the cost would be, but I expect it'd be considerably less than the cost of a new Dakota.

And I wouldn't want to throw up every time it banged against the stand as I hoisted it up a tree!

If you're gonna lose your lunch, banging a $7K rifle stock against a tree, your re-work idea definitely has merit...

Maybe Fire contributors can suggest someone like Karnis if he's still under the weather and unable to do his magic...

DF

$8k+.

You sound like my wife!

Who knows: I might be able to get both the Zastava and MRC reworked for less.

The Dakota action is machined after heat treating like the better bench rest actions.

I really like mine and have thought about trading several others to have a pair of them.

But if I had a Zastava action I would be tempted to send it to James Anderson. He worked with Don Allen and in my opinion has surpassed him significantly in skill and artistry. If you want a stock that functions well with scope and iron sights it is best to have it fitted to your needs.

Do a search on Mini Mauser to see some of his work.

Probably a good bit less...

DF

Thanks. Will do.

Rev,

Probably one of the few on here who:
1. Has owned a Dakota Model 76, 97 and 10.
2. Met Don and Norma.
3. Made several trips to the Dakota shop.
4. Has shot Dakota rifles for years.
These four points don't make me an expert on Dakota rifles, but they mean my perspective is based on actual usage/knowledge and not hearsay or opinion or something their third cousin once removed overheard at a bar in 97, or maybe 98. ;-)
The bottom line is that the gun you have in mind is about as close to perfection as possible. If you like it and it floats your boat, get it. You won't be sorry. Can you buy cheaper guns? Of course. Can you get what others consider better wood? Yes. But Dakota will build you a thing of beauty that shoots and their customer service is incredible. I'm sure you've spoken with Marla or Ward, but they can answer all of your questions. Again, this is just my two cents, but I can't wait to see your gun. AND GET THE QUARTER RIB. A 7x57 must have a quarter rib.

Thanks, I appreciate that. Yes, Marla is who I've been talking with. If that's the route I go it'll definitely have the quarter rib. Since I'm a little OCD, I might just take a trip to SD to have the stock fitted. That way I know everything will line up the way it should.

As I told my wife, yeah, it's a lot of money...but at least it's not the Westley Richards I've been looking at!




Here's the current Zastava Mauser I could have reworked.



Or the MRC (poor picture)



I think I'll just leave the Featherweight as it is.

Hey Elk and DF, what do you think? Perfect for the annual parish men's outing.

That Westley Richards is one in a million!!! Yes, a trip to Sturgis would be wise (just don't go the first week of August). On top of getting fitted and meeting the folks who would be building your gun, you could pick out your wood. Sounds like a great plan to me. Good luck.

Get the Dakota. Meet with them, fuss over every little detail, call them constantly during the build process, maybe go back to SD to check on the progress - in short, enjoy every single moment of the rifle building process.

Seems to me this is all about getting "The Rifle" - pause for trumpet fanfare - instead of a reliable tool for hunting. I mean, no offense intended at all, but if you're hunting pigs and such in what sounds like Florida or other palmetto laced area, there are thousands of off the shelf firearms that could provide a lifetime of excellent service.

So - get The Rifle that warms your heart. You can get a good smith to rework another rifle and IMHO it would probably, no it would very likely shoot as straight and function as well, but it wouldn't be The Rifle.

Seriously, get what your heart wants, this is no time to count pennies or be "practical" - a Ruger American is practical.

But you gotta be sure to let us see the finished product.

What he ^ said. You really should listen to those of us in Idaho....

Sage advise from jim & H. Ordering, getting fitted, caliber/optics selection makes for a great experience.

I don't take any offense at that at all because you're exactly right: I want what I want, not what I need. I can shoot porkers all day long with my 1962 vintage M94. It's accurate and perfectly adequate. So is the M70 and the ASR. So is the Zastava, for that matter. But whether I have one of those reworked or head to SD, it's more a matter of scratching an itch than anything else. So, as I said, no offense taken as you've hit the nail right on the head.

Frankly, if I had the coin that Westley Richards would be mine...and Ingwe would be green!

"Might" good grief Rev that's another good choice. Almost as good as the Leopold 1x-4x.

That shirt works for me.

It would be a nice rifle to own but it's a lot of money and I would actually use a 308 NULA a lot more.

I owned two, one was a 76 that I bought used it was an early gun in 270 and I commissioned a No 10 single shot, I had no real issues with either, the 270 I paid less than 1500 out the door for at the time and I got a good deal of money for it when i sold it, I kind of regret that now but its water under the bridge! When I had the Number 10 done Norma was calling the shots and it was not very pleasant at times. These days I shoot an R-93 Blaser and if I was to do one again, I would just have Mel make me a Model 20 in 250-3000 plenty for the deer I shoot here in CT thou a 243 would be a better choice just for ammo- but heck I would stuff my own so who cares and in CT its the way to go hand loading these days till they decide that is a threat too!

Here's my 76 Alpine 250-3000. Three grand at Cabelas when I got it, complete with peep sight and 3-9 Diavari scope. Very happy with it, and accuracy is excellent. Light, easy to carry all day, and easy to look at when there are no deer to see.

This is my Dakota 76 that Don made for me a few years before he died. I provided the blank of English walnut. Its chambered for the .257 Weatherby cartridge and it shoots very well.

That is SO c,lose to my second .338WM in wood, setup and everything, that they could be from the same tree!

However, being a cold, blunt and practical geezer, both of my wooden Dakota stocks are in storage and "glass handles" are on them. BC is WET.

If you ever decide to sell that, I'd be interested. That would make me hunt with a wood stock again.

Bob,

Does a <$2K pre-war M70 270 (sorry) qualify?

Ed that's exactly what I'm asking about. So does my Len Brownell M70.

Still I think the Dakota is a pretty damned nice rifle. Have to admit I have seen some lately I wouldn't mind having.

WOW! just WOW!

Mike,

Lots of interesting ideas here. If I were dropping that kind of dough, I'd be inclined to go with a nice 98 of some sort or a pre-64. The part that would scare me at this point, is whether or not I would live long enough to see the project completed. From what I've read, a lot of custom smiths are pretty casual about delivery. That alone might be a point in favor of the Dakota.

On the other hand, there's something appealing about taking a faithful friend like your Zastava and "rewarding" it with a high-class makeover.

Congratulations on choosing a wife with whom you can discuss an $8000 rifle. She must be a peach.

"Congratulations on choosing a wife with whom you can discuss an $8000 rifle. She must be a peach."

One of the more telling and insightful comments I've read on this site. I strongly second it.

Yep, agree with that.

I could see the Rev. pulling off a smoke and mirrors maneuver with the Bishop...

But, that's hard to do with a wife. Either she's an angel or he's the slickest used car salesman on the planet...

BTW, Rev, I do like the shirt...

DF

Absolutely gorgeous rifle!

got a 76 in 270 new in 1997 on a store closing deal, $1595. hunted it hard since shooting many deer and 1 black bear. very satisfied in all respects--even shoots to virtually same POI w various bullet weights. but i find myself liking my Cooper 54 in 260 at least as much for less than half at current prices.

Everytime, I look at a Dakota 76, even the best, I think about a Sterling Davenport Custom and how it bests the Dakota every single time.

Mine is from 1996. One of only a few that they machined the receiver and installed a Jewell trigger in. 375 H&H and will pretty much put them in one hole at 100 yards from the bench. Loves the 270 tsx at a shade over 2700 fps. The Dakota has a very slick action and is a dream to shoot. The stock design and the way it feels when you shoulder it is a major reason I like it so much. Add that feel with the accuracy I get from my Dakotas and they are tough to beat! One of my absolute favorites! Buy you one if you want. You wont be sorry.

I expect my peach probably has her eye on a new Durango Citadel just to even things up.

Very nice!

Loony Logic doesn't have a prayer when pitted against Feminine Wiles!

Yep.

I figured the Rev would have some "offsetting" negotiations pending...

DF

More like begging,pleading,whining,holding his breath etc...

Naw...

Not the Rev...

DF

You'd be surprised at the stuff I'll try!!

If I was going to do a Dakota, I would ask them how much it would cost for me to provide the stock blank. I think their grading is way off. Then I would find just the blank I wanted from any of a number of vendors and supply it to them.

Something like this for a 7x57...



Something like this Bastogne if I was going to do a 9.3x62...





But I would build off your Mauser. First, take a rasp to the existing stock until you get the dimensions you really like. You will have to decide if you want it to use iron sights or a scope--no single stock design does both adequately. Then start piecing your way there. Oberndorf handle, straddle floorplate, shroud mounted safety, LW barrel...

Now, you gonna start confessing after I went out of my way to vouch for you...??

DF

Certainly no details. "Under the stole," you know?

Those are nice blanks!

One of the things this rifle is going to be is a working rifle. The Mauser is a Zastava, and it already has a lightweight barrel and side mounted safety (e.g., like the Mark X). I've been at a conference all week, but am planning to contact at builder to see what it would take to transform the existing rifle to the specs I mentioned earlier. In the meantime I'm still waiting on some info from Dakota. I don't normally move very quickly when it comes to stuff like that as I want to try to think it all through before pulling the trigger (pardon the pun).

Been there,still doing that.

I've made impulse purchases, but in doing a custom, semi-, or just a rebarrel or restocking, I really take my time to make sure I select things correctly. Haven't been disappointed yet.

Looks like I might be back to the Dakota option. The custom smiths say they can't rework the wood of the Mauser as is. I ain't done yet. Stay tuned!

On pins & needles here!

"Can't" of or don't want to...

Bet Karnis could work it over if he was able. Never heard a "can't" attributed to him...

DF

Elk: you've already been in my wallet (MRC ASR!)

DF: I sent Karnis a note a long time ago. No answer so his health must not yet be back up to snuff.

My BIL thinks i should just bite the bullet, mortgage the farm, and have a WR built.


Uh...no.

Sounds like an obscession, Rev.

A Loony obscession of the worst kind...

May be time for the Bishop to hear your confession and assign counselors who understands such things.

I would recommend seasoned Fire members for that task...

Just saying...

DF

I noticed you said earlier in the thread that you were unlikely to ever make it to Africa. You could skip the new rifle, use one you already have, and go hunt Africa. It may be cheaper than you think. PM me and I will tell you how.

Rev,have you looked on gun broker or guns international? You might find what you want on one of those websites.

elk,

That's a good idea. It's like a new car dropping in value the first trip around the block. Ordered a custom is a lot more expensive than buying one already done. Let the other guy take the first big hit...

DF

Yup,I do get a good idea every once-in-a-while.

Once in a while, for sure...

DF

Yup.

In my modest collection are several custom rifles picked up used for a fraction of the new cost. One even has comb that works fine with both the iron sights and detachable scope. That used to be pretty common in the days of Griffin & Howe side-mounts, when scopes could be mounted much lower due to no bases on the top of the action.

Yup,it just takes patience to find one.

Bought a re-barreled and re-stocked FN Mauser .270 and a military action .25-06 with nice wood,cheap. The .270 was $500 and the .25-06 was $275 and it came with a Nikon 3x-9x scope.

The 2 LGS I visit the most,I swear their eyes turn to dollar signs whenever I walk in. They know what I like and will buy.

Mike,

Barsness once described himself as a semi-competent custom stockmaker. Maybe he can help you out! (Sorry, John)

I wish this one was right handed:



actually scratch that, I almost decided to learn to shoot it left handed. PO Ackley action, assembled & stocked by Jaeger, in 7x57.

The new owner was quite delighted to acquire it

Isn't there some saying about foxes and henhouses?

My issue with Africa is more an issue with time than about anything else. But then again, maybe that'd be the best way to escape the cellphone...at least for a couple of weeks.

Actually I do check occasionally. I'm patient. Something will come along, I'm sure. Maybe Ingwe will decide he's too old to hunt anymore and leave me his Ingwe Special. I'd even light a candle for his soul. Of course, to hear him speak I'd have to set fire to the bell tower!

John, care to share the stock dimensions? Most people seem to hate the old G&H side mounts.

That a nice looking rifle. I could learn to shoot left handed if it was in my safe.

I think the issue with the current stock is that it has the high MC, which raises just about everything in the back, and there might not be enough wood left for it to be styled in a traditional British pattern. I expect the most logical option is to get a blank, as was suggested, and go from there. Or just have a Dakota built to my specs. We'll see. As I said, I'm patient.

He suggested Karnis as well.

Hey, that rifle at the start of this thread is not a Dakota, it's a Waffenfabrik Hein chambered in 450 Dakota. I bought it several years ago in its synthetic stock, and sent it to Jim Kobe in Minnesota with a nice blank I bought from Luxus walnut. He created what you see there. Fort those that don't remember, Waffenfabrik Hein was a start-up maker of Magnum Mauser actions and rifles, that went belly up after a short run. If anyone buys this rifle, I still have the weighted synthetic stock it originally came in. It was up for $8,900 for some time, just dropped the price.

Hmm...GI has it listed as a Dakota M76 in .358 Winchester, being sold by Steve Barnett Fine Guns.

Ok, it looks like mine, also at Barnett.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/WA...NE-RIFLE-450-DAKOTA.cfm?gun_id=100515054

Done well the G&H mounts are great. As good or better than any QD on the market today...

Or enablers...

DF

Make the time and go for a week.

Mike,

I'll check the stock dimensions later, but they don;t really matter. What matters is that the Lyman Alaskan on my old custom 1903 Springfield by Frank Pachmayr is only 1.30" above the center of the bore, less than .2" above the top of the front sight, so either the scope or irons can be used with essentially the same cheek weld. This was a common set-up back in the days when scopes weren't sealed against moisture, and otherwise less reliable than they are today.

Some people don't like G&H mounts because of the holes drilled into the side of "classic" actions, which offend them because they prefer holes drilled in the top of the actions, which is apparently the only place scope-mounting holes should have been drilled by civilized people. But I have even seen people throw hissy-fits when they find scope-mounting holes drilled in the top of old actions. Look at what they do to the perceived value of old Savage 99's. (Back when I started shooting centerfires, correctly drilled scope-mounting holes actually increased the value of most older rifles, because then the rifles could be shot more easily and accurately. My how times change.)

The obvious and historically correct solution to holes drilled in the side of older hunting rifles for a G&H mount is to stick a G&H mount over 'em. But apparently that's not acceptable to some people.

John:

Thanks for the response. The reason I asked about the dimensions (really drop at comb and heel) is because my current Zastava that I'm thinking about toying with has a MC stock and unless I remove a considerable amount of wood or cheekbone, there's no way to use the current iron sights. A bit more drop would help. The scope is currently mounted in a set of low Warne QD rings, and even though it's comfortable, I don't think a bit more drop would really make any difference. It would, however, allow for the use of the irons. The addition of a quarter rib might raise things up a bit, but never having used one, I'm only guessing. What are your thoughts?

And thanks for the insight about side mounts. WR still offers side mounts on their custom Mausers. As a matter of fact, the rifle they show on their website is designed for iron use, but the scope is sitting in a side mount. I assume that's to either not interfere with engraving, allow the scope to be mounted low, or both.

Thanks again.

If you're gonna rework the stock, cutting the comb down is no "hill for a climber". Just cut and try until it fits. I think John did similar to his .416R, IIRC...

DF

Yeah, but that's just part of everything else: quarter rib, banded front sight, barrel band swivel stud, etc.

Quarter ribs hinder scope choices, objective size. Other than how they look, I don't know if I'd spend a bunch of money having one fitted. Just me.

DF

Yeah, go ahead, rub it in. Just rub it in!

I agree, except there are times when the scope really isn't all that helpful and a front F/O sight is perfect: like just before O-Dark-Thirty in brush that limits visibility to about 10 feet.

Mike,

Have you looked at the NECGW site? They offer to do most, if not all of what you want. They're not cheap, but certainly cheaper than a Dakota, and you can continue to use your faithful Zastava.

I would also sugfest you go to a LGS and take a look through a low-powered variable with a lighted aiming point. They are very nice. Leupold makes a few with 1" tubes, and lots with 30mm, starting at about $450 online. The Trijicons are very nice too, but are pretty high.

I think a gentleman of your "vintage" will sooner or later find a scope better for even the close work you seem to get.

NECG iron are what I'd do. You have room for scope objectives without compromise of sight quality.

DF

I've been on their site. They certainly supply what I'm looking for. I currently have 3-9 illuminateds on both the Zastava and MRC, a 2.5-8 VX3 on my M70, and a 1.5-5 VX3 on my No. 1. The thing about using the open sights is when I'm in brush after something that isn't quite down yet. It doesn't happen often, but I've had to go in a time or two. Frankly, a shotgun is about the best thing in those quarters, but I don't normally carry two guns.

And no, Elk, I'm not going to start looking for a drilling!!

I appreciate all the suggestions and recommendations. I'll figure it out.

I swapped the photos to show a VX-3, 2.5-8 on the M-70 375 H&H and the NECG irons, including the fiberoptic front with "windowed" hood. To me, that's the way to go with irons.

And, you see the scope objective isn't compromised like with the Champlin and Haskins 7RM photo. Other than looks, I see no practical benefit to a quarter rib and don't like the downside of limited scope choice. This C&H wasn't an easy rifle to scope. I had to look long and hard for a 1" scope, long enough to fit these custom QD rings. There weren't many options and I would never build a gun like that. Traded for that one, built in the '70's by the late Len Brownell, wood and metal including the QD rings. With that provenance I was limited, making the gun fit the scope. I had to find a scope to fit the gun.

My advice: Don't go there...

DF

Browning A5 Buck Special stuffed full of Breneke Black Magics!

I watched Pigman take on a wounded (arrow) pig with a hicap 9 once. I think he used all of 'em!

I'd prefer a rifle. Not too keen on slugs...

DF

I have a short barrel M870 that will bark out some buckshot at close quarters.

The for end is much too long and it doesnt have a British name.

P.S. You've got two less pigs to hunt in Florida.

Ingwe! Glad to see you're still amongst the living. Ok, first, the forearm is 9.5 inches from the front of the action, one inch longer than Rigby used. The reason, from what I understand, is that the Mauser floor plate has a steeper angle than the Dakota, thus allowing for more rake and a shorter fore end. As for the British name, hook a brother up with about $30k and I'll fix that!

Second, any pictures of the pokers? How'd the AI fare?

The 30K can be had at a nominal rate of interest

The223AI is undefeated in the pig killing fields thus far. Pics to follow once I get home in a few days...

Glad to hear. Any size to them? Did you eat them yet?

they were eaters, one was 70 pounds and the other was 60. Ate the little one last night.He was good but I gotta say after 17 pigs in Texas last year...Im tired of pulled pork ( which was the easy way to fix it for friends as Im traveling...)

What,you're the mob now?

Everyone likes pulled pork, but I'm like you. It doesn't take long before I'm saying, "Again?"

Marinate some over night in some mojo sauce, put it in a crock pot, cover it with the rest of the mojo and cook it until the meat falls apart. Spoon it over some mashed potatoes or rice. 'tain't bad.

The mob charges more than a nominal rate. Im a businessman...

I like it in tacos al pastor or as pork carnitas.

I haven't had it that way. What's in it?

Ok,the bank of Ingwe or BOI.

Do you wear baggy pants and a cap on backwards?

In both cases lots-o-spices and its eaten on tortillas like a taco...

I'm sure he's wearing lots of bling as well.

And a pinky ring.

If you need a loan, your interest rate will not be nominal.

There's the BOI, but then there's the fingernail pulling, leg breaking collections dept...

Hmmm...

Believe I'd find me a used Savage (Salvage)...

The loan would be great; collections might get a tad messy...

Like in: The fall wasn't bad; it was the landing that was a ___..!!

DF

Hey Pappy, has NECG done any work for you? I'm considering them for a project and looking for feed back.

Thanks

Scott

P.S. Sorry for the hijack but didn't think it would matter since it has digressed to porkers.

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that as soon as Ingwe posts the thread gets hijacked like an Eastern airliner to Libya?

You thinking less desirable elements of the Fire crowd follow Ingwe around...??

DF

Wait a minute....

Hmmm outrageously low.....

Hey Rev this might get the thread back on track



http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=470230016

Not a bad starting price for a take down 375 H&H.

Scott

Very nice. And a take-down to boot. That thing would roll some porkers!

You can also switch out different barrels, to change calibers, as long as the case head matches the bolt.

Now it's getting expensive...

I was thinking that too but wanted to do some research before I posted.

Rev, you could get a 300 H&H barrel to go with the current 375 H&H and roll everything from a peccary to a porker to a pachyderm!

This one has also caught my eye because I love the caliber and it would make nice pulled pork...but a little pricey for a 35 Remington.



http://www.gunsinternational.com/Dakota-76-35-Rem-caliber.cfm?gun_id=100527124

The one I posted at the beginning of this thread is .358 Win. Another great round. I'm holding out for a 7x57 so I can be like Ingwe.

Remember now, you're a man of the cloth...

DF

Ok, so not totally like Ingwe.

Words Hurt.

No, but Terry Wieland trusted them to do a G&H side mount on a Mannlicher (I think) a while back. I think they have a pretty good reputation.

I have a first-class guy nearby in Boyce, VA. He did a fine custom Low Wall .257 for somebody on here a while back. I'm still drooling over that one. Anyway, most of the work I need can be handled with a screwdriver or BFH.

Now don't you think this would look better with a Rigby fore-end, barrel band swivel, wrap front sight, and quarter rib?

O

Looks fine to me.

From the man with a safe full of "pretty!"

Yup.

I might ultimately go unconventional, though. The Merkel Helix looks pretty cool...in 7x64, 6.5 Swede, or boring .270. But don't tell Ingwe.

I like the Mauser M 12 in a 7x64. There's a Gun store in El Paso that has one in .30-06 and it's just "Heavenly."

I'm wondering about that straight pull action. Match that with the .280 (by any other name) and I'm thinking "pig killing machine"! I need to post a thread to see what those who've used the Helix think of it.

Could be wrong,but the Mauser M 12 is a regular bolt action not a straight pull.

Post it up Rev, there's bound to be someone here who has used a Helix.

If you could tolerate straight pull, look into a Blaser. They are some of the most accurate rifles I have played with, the decocking safety is great, the new R8 S can be had for $2600 or so, and you can get it in 7x57.

You're right: M12 is a conventional action. And you're also right about the Helix: On the 'fire, there'll be opinions...firsthand or otherwise!

I'm thinking 7x64 with an extra 9.3 barrel and magazine. How does your couch sleep?

2 people and 1 dog along with 4 cats.

You're smart enough to separate the crapola from the actual users.

I've seen the Blaser but not really familiar with it. Is it a true straight pull like the Helix? You're speaking my language when you start talking 7x57. I boar hunt, that's it. I'm entirely happy with the round.

I may need to reserve some space...if the cats will share!!

Just asked the cats,they will share. The price is a fish fillet though.

Trout, redfish, or snook?

I've been watching a bunch of boar hunting videos on YouTube. Those boys with the straight-pull rifles and Aimpoints can really tear 'em up, and pile 'em up.

Since this is all fun and games anyway, I'm thinking about an Aimpoint for myself.

No use waiting 'til I'm old; I'm already there!

My brother-in-law just bought an Aimpoint and shared one of the video downloads he received. It's over an hour of Franz Albrecht and his friends taking out European boar in Hungary, almost all at full speed. On this particular video they're shooting Sauer 202s. Holy cow, can that fellow work a bolt. I've seen a clip of him with the Merkel and he's even faster...which is incredible. There's something to be said about young eyes and reflexes.

The Blaser is a true straight pull with interchangeable barrels. You could have a 7x57, 7x64, 8x68s and 9.3x62 on the same rifle.

Redfish and Snook.

Looks vs. utility.

The barrel band lets the rifle ride much lower over the shoulder with sling. OK is thick stuff. If one likes to wrap up in a sling for a long shot, not so good.

Banded front sight, the Champlin has one, looks good, may be tougher than a ramp sight, but doesn't offer that much for me. A properly mounted ramp is pretty stout. I've already given my opinion on the quarter rib.

All that stuff looks cool and safari, just may not be worth the cost for what it offers.

I like pretty guns, but utility is a big deal for me.

DF

Yup DF.

Y'all are without question correct. The only thing I'd quibble with is the quarter-rib. On the Zastava, even with a 30mm tube, 40 mm objective, and Warne QD low rings, there's still plenty of room between the bell and barrel. Besides, if the rifle had a rib it would be wearing 20 or 24mm glass, 1-6x or so, illuminated. Plenty of room, just like your picture. Also, I think a fiber optic front sight (like the one in your picture) with one or two rear leaves would be helpful in poor light when trying to find a pig in myrtle and oak thickets. You're in Louisiana, right? I'm in Florida. The thickets around our marshes aren't terribly different.

As for the barrel band swivel, again, you're absolutely right. I've always shot using a hasty sling so the swivel stud on the stock just makes sense. But there's still a lot of wood on the front of that thing!

The economics are hard to justify, as well. This isn't a pre-64 action or Oberndorf Mauser. It's a $550 Serbian rifle. I guess I didn't forget everything that 27 years as a CPA taught me.

I expect ultimately what I'll wind up doing is the same thing I generally do: just continue to carry that old Mauser into the woods and kill stuff, while waiting for the urge to pass...assuming y'all will stop posting pictures that make me covet my neighbor's rifles! So much for Lent....

Who would do something like that.

Dang it!!

What is wrong Rev.

You ain't playin' very nice. I'ma tell Ingwe if you don't quit!

HAH! Tell him what?

What is that?

Winchester M 70 Stainless Steel .375 H&H.

Ah. Nice.

Betcha it'll kill a Florida porker.

No doubt!

Yup.

Although what I'd do is load that .300 H&H down and have some fun with it.

Rev,please don't take this the wrong way,BUT,load down a .300 H&H! Keep this up I'm gonna tell Ingwe.

I have that same .375 H&H SS Classic. I cut mine to 21", added NECG irons and a 3-9x40 Conquest.

And, yep, it'll sure stick a porker...

DF

And the piggies end up in a nice little pile!

Even more amazing when you realize they're doing it all offhand.

The shooting is incredible, no doubt about it. I don't know if you've seen the clips of the indoor range where they shoot, but it is a live-fire range with a video of running boar. At the shot the video freezes for an instant and a red dot shows bullet impact. I wish I had one of those handy! I remember as a kid reading one of Jack O'Connor's books and he had an illustration of how to practice a running shot by having someone roll a tire with a target in the middle down a hill. The only problem in south Florida is that we don't have any hills.

One of my parishioners is from Germany and his mother frequently shoots driven game. And you're right: they pile them up at the end, have a little ceremony respecting the game, then off to the market they go. He said it's a pretty interesting experience.

I was just thinking that it might be a little much for a 90 pound pig at 40 yards. Drop a 150 gr cup and core to about 2300 fps and you might be on to something. Of course, about the time you did that a 290 pounder would appear 200 yards away!

Rev,for the first a 30/30 would work,the second well....

Rev,all kidding aside,why do you want a straight pull bolt action?

Yep!

Saaawwwwweeeeeeeettttttt!

I don't know how seriously I want one, but there are two reasons why I think a straight-pull is an attractive option. First, they're compact, which makes them handy in brush or blind. From what I can tell, they're about 3 inches shorter than a standard bolt action with the same length barrel. Second, every once in a while I'll either get a chance at a second pig or need to put another round in one that I might have hit too high. The clearings where the pigs are taken is never any more than about 25 feet from dense palmetto or myrtle and oak thickets. Pigs might not look fast, but they can cover that 25 feet pretty dog-gone fast. Frankly, a good auto would be the ticket, but then there's that length thing again.

It just sounds like rationalization, doesn't it...good rationalization, but rationalization nevertheless.

Yes it does sound like "good rationalization" to me.

You sound like a "rifle looney" what will the itch be tomorrow,next week....

My itch right now is either a Winchester in .25-06 or a "classic" style rifle in .340 Wby.

Ain't it the truth! I always give it three weeks. If the itch is still there, I then begin to think seriously about scratching it.

My wife gives me two weeks,then she knows I'm serious!

Almost never get to two weeks,or even two days,hours,minutes.

Actually, I was was referring to the pile they end up in after the shot! They catch them as they pass through those fire cuts and roll them over.

I have a friend who was an Army captain in Germany at the end of the war. As the mlitary administrator for a good-sized area, and since civilians were forbidden to have firearms, he was able to do a lot of hunting and learned all the ceremonial stuff. He still has a bunch of roebuck antlers on his wall. He even bagged a couple of auerhahns, sort of a German "turkey".

Oh, I see. The looked like boulders where Franz Albrecht was shooting!

You aren't sure how serious you are about the Dakota after stewing on it...


But I'll bet you still want a british magazine rifle


Save your money

For the magazine rifle? Or just in general?

I believe Albrecht is German for "Whack 'n Stack".

Could be. Looke him up on the Internet. He's some sort of prince. Evidently he has a lot of time on his hands.

I have plenty of TIME. It's the shortage of that other resource that keeps me experiencing driven boar shooting second hand. If one wants to live like a prince, one should be more selective when choosing one's parents.

Use the money and go on a safari.

Have a Dakota 76 African in .416 Rigby they made for me in early 2007. So far, it's been on six (6) DG hunts and has always worked perfectly. I've got ~400 rounds through it now and it consistently shoots an inch or less. It has accounted for many head of game. If I could only own one rifle, this would be the one I keep.