Well I agree with most anything that is short, fat and a Magnum.. The 223 is to me not as good as everyone makes it out to be. I agree that if the military did not adopt it would not be what it is today. It does what it needs to do, but so do many other 22 center fire rounds.
The 300 Weatherby is no joke The .270 WSM is The Swift is a waste without a quick twist barrel The .458 is a lot of rifle for a little recoil The 223 is superb, not saying anyone's similar pet isn't.
Any cartridge that fills a need, no matter how small the niche, and has a following, is worthwhile. "Overrated" is subjective and a matter of opinion. However, if I were going to put such a list together, the .300 B.O. would certainly win top honors on my list.....
I would like to have a 223 or 222 "walking rifle" in an accurate bolt gun. No interest in a 22-250. Not sure what I would do with one but seems like would be fun to have.
For me, I'd say the top five most overrated cartridges should have "AI" after their name.
I'd agree if you were talking only about larger caliber rounds like, say a 338-06 Improved and even the 30/06 Improved as you're not making a significant enough change to the powder capacity. On the other hand, the 243, 257 Roberts, 280 Remington and a few others do pick up some more FPS, not to mention greatly improved case life. If you don't reload, however, save your $$$$. The largest "Improvement" is case life.
That read like an "oh crap I've an hour before my deadline" article. I suppose I'll give the guy another chance to prove himself, but he shouldn't be proud signing his name to this piece.
What's with all the folks from Texas hatin' on the .270? Y'all born here? I'm native born. I would never be without a .270. I think I'd sooner give up Mexican food, and hell, that's its own food group.
Lotta misdirected anger issues, if you ask me. Just sayin'.
I don't agree with the author one bit especially when it comes to the 223 and 270 wsm. The 223/5.56 is about the cheapest centerfire ammo that you can buy, the 270 wsm out performs the 270 and is more accurate, and yes I own rifles chambered in both calibers.
The only rifle that "bit" me was 7mm Mag. a BSA CF2 was prone and crawled the stock. Still have the extra eyebrow. Not the rifle or cartridge, perhaps the nut behind.. One of life's lessons I guess. I did pass it on and never have had another 7mm Mag.
I have and love all those listed except the 270 wsm.... Really....the 300 wby 220 swift and 223 overrated...what an idiot.. 22-250 and 300 win are better because they fall short? What an idiot I never found 1 single fault with 223....... What an IDIOT!!!
The .375 is the one to have there. Gobs of power with recoil light enough for rapid fire. I can get two hits with a .375 or one with the .458 in the same amount of time, and I've never seen the .375 suffer for want for slap effect on a brown bear.
Yes, I said it. Look, the .223 works, and works well for most of its intended purposes. But, I truly believe if the U.S. Government hadn’t smiled upon it, the cartridge would have a small fraction of the followers it does today.
Is the reason the military smiled on it the crux of his dislike?
I guess he should have just over-rated the 30-06 and 308 Win while he was at it.
Perhaps the 58 caliber percussion rifle as well...
It's safe to say that the older, carburated cartridges have fewer followers. The availability of tiny Holley or Carter carberators has decreased dramatically since the late 1980s. Nowadaze, the new cartridges all feature electronic performance monitoring internals, straight walled combustion chambers and are fuel injected. Bullets too.
I agree about the 223. The US govt poured so much money into powders, bullets and barrels to make that thing work. It succeeded because it was a military cartridge. That's okay. For me anyway, what I don't like is the necks on them. In order to cram more propellant into the darn case, they shortened it. And as we all know, anything with a short neck isn't too bright or trustworthy. Just look at the WWF.
The only thing funnier than the article are some of the posts on this thread.
The lists of overrated cartridges are as entertaining as the one in the article.
+1
Haha yeah....just got off the phone with Dober. He said every one is out jumping from cartridge to cartridge looking for the perfect one....like looking for the perfect woman.
I have my thoughts on this article, not entirely in agreement with the entire thing...what say you?
I think it is crap. Everything is overrated if you are shooting what competes against it. [bleep] that [bleep]. What difference does "rated" make and who does the rating? If it works, it works. Done. The only negative from not following the masses is there really aren't enough components around to keep everyone shooting all the choices happy at once so it might, to some degree, make the shortages more acute.
I can`t think of a bad caliber I have ever used.I have had bad rifles that were inaccurate .That did not mean the caliber or chambering was bad.A lot of cartridge`s are just duplicates of other ones with a new body shape and different names.Usually it does not matter if you like a 222 or a 223 or a 6MM Rem. or 243.Its the guy doing the driving that makes it perform.Nothing he mentioned gets me riled up because it is just his opinion and opinions are just like azzholes.Everyone has one.
I have and love all those listed except the 270 wsm.... Really....the 300 wby 220 swift and 223 overrated...what an idiot.. 22-250 and 300 win are better because they fall short? What an idiot I never found 1 single fault with 223....... What an IDIOT!!!
The 223 is nothing without the endorsement of the US Govt. Prior to that, the 222 was where it was at. The 223 is "all that" because of the hardware it is supported by, nothing more. Well, perhaps credit might also be allowed for "most stretched cartridge", since the 223 has been stretched to work even harder than Bell stretched the 7x57. Actually, if compromising all 22 CFs into one was where it was at, Winchester might have had it right with the 225.
Little Known Facts about Firearms: The 45 Elias Steamer Copyright 2015 - Cletus Tenderloin
.........Elias Martineau
In 1889, Elias Martineau, of the Louisiana ‘salt water boiled chicken' Martineaus, constructed the first steam driven, self-contained cartridge – the 45 Elias Steamer.
Elias lived just outside of Lafayette, in the newly created Acadia Parish. God bless him, his intentions were honorable, but he just wasn’t too bright. He figured to capitalize on the family idea of using boiled salt water from the Gulf. Instead of cooking chicken though, he wanted to use steam to propel bullets. Sadly, neither the Martineau chicken recipe nor Elias’ steam driven bullet idea took off.
Originally, Elias thought that he could create something that would rival the black powder and new smokeless powder cartridges of the day. He worked hard to build a tiny steam chamber and water reservoir inside a 45-70 case. He chose the 45-70 because of its availability and the sheer number of single shot rifles piled up in his shed.
For about 18 months he worked tirelessly, modifying cases with wee chambers and a single, steam driven piston. The effort took most of his time and ruined his eyesight. When it became too difficult to use even large magnifying glasses, he imported ‘illegals’ from Tennessee to labor in his small shed. He was determined to succeed, despite employing people from the Smoky Mountains.
Had Elias made one or two prototypes before going into mass production, he might have realized his idea wouldn’t hold water. Or, more to the point, wouldn’t hold enough water. While the principle of steam pressure had been proven in locomotives, it was a new idea in bullet propulsion. This was the golden age of firearms however, when a new idea was born every week, and testing procedures were not standardized.
In July of 1890, Elias’ small staff had produced 10 steam driven cartridges, and the day of testing had arrived. Five men went into Martineau’s backyard, set up a firing bench, a target stand, and one fellow even remembered to bring refreshments and lunch. The very first target was a 30x30 piece of deer hide, held onto the stand with wire.
At the firing line, Elias' men piled boxes of bottles, cans, old shoes and boots, hats and even a small chicken in a cage. After the initial test on the deer hide, these items were to be shot up to demonstrate the accuracy and firepower of the 45 Elias Steamer.
Elias carefully laid out the ten new cartridges on the table. He put on a new shirt, combed his hair and called for his rifle – a well-used Springfield trapdoor. Calvin Victor, his assistant, brought it to him and motioned for the camera. This was a historic moment! That’s when Elias' employees realized that in their haste to construct this new steam driven cartridge, they had forgot to modify a rifle to fire it. So they went home.
Sadly, Elias Martineau would not live to see his dream come true. Two months after the failed test, he was struck and killed by a driverless horse and buggy in the laneway of his farm, while walking to the outhouse.
$100 says the 7mm Rem Mag is still humming along in 20 years (not willing to lump any of the new 7s with it though). You willing to take the other side?
$100 says the 7mm Rem Mag is still humming along in 20 years (not willing to lump any of the new 7s with it though). You willing to take the other side?
20 years from now, bloggers will be saying Michelle O is still "beautiful".
Phil Massaro must be the twin brother to Lee H. Joots the other brain dead gunwriter. Sheeit what kinda moron editor tells a writer to come up with crap like this? no wonder the mags are on their way out. Magnum Man
$100 says the 7mm Rem Mag is still humming along in 20 years (not willing to lump any of the new 7s with it though). You willing to take the other side?
20 years from now, bloggers will be saying Michelle O is still "beautiful".
Does not mean they are right.
BMT
No worries; I'm not changing my bet. (You can certainly have that one….. bleh!)
Not that it doesn't work, it does, but a sharp stick still works as well as ever if the hunter knows how to use it. And I'd bet a sharp stick has taken more game than all cartridges combined over the last 10,000 years.
I like the round well enough and have several 30-30 rifles, but hearing how great it is gets old. It works, but ain't nothing special. The fact is it had been obsolete for 3 years before it was invented. It was a step backwards in cartridge development.
The 270 WSM is lucky to get 100fps on the regular old .270, which is what makes the 7Mag a joke also, as it won't even get that over a .280
From the Nosler manual: (Not that I need it having owned multiples of both). Top velocities:
280-150 from 26" Barrel: 2995,2990,2982,2966.
7 Rem Mag-150 from 24" barrel ( hardly even-steven but whatever): 3248,3240,3162,3128.
WE could talk 140's:
280-140 26" barrel 3152,3070,3056,3002.
7 Rem Mag-140 24" barrel: 3340,3318,3282,3263
280-175 from 26" Barrel: 2760
7 Rem Mag-175 from 24" barrel: 2970
I bogged down in math awhile ago,but sure looks like more than 100 fps to me.And all through this we are spotting the 280 2" of barrel.
In real life after 15-20 7 Rem Mags and maybe 6-7 280's (who knows?),and to simplify, the real world difference is the 7 Rem mag will do with a 160 what a 280 will do with a 140 day in and day out, rifle to rifle, and as near as we can guess at home pressure wise,which is somewhere between 3050-3100 fps....and it takes a good shot in the arm to get that velocity with a 280. You better be stomping on it
Most popular belted magnum....ever. Top 10 in reloading dies and factory ammo just about every year, far as I know.Used internationally, and the poor old 280 has taken a seat way at the back of the bus since 1962,despite its obvious virtues.Great cartridge.
Gotta think on this a bit and wonder..... what open country North American BG animal can't be taken with a 7 Rem Mag as far as we can hit properly (made easier by moderate recoil and bullets designed to the task). Be right back......
Nothing new to post. Am just going to repeat what I posted this morning:
"Personally, I am SHOCKED that any magazine would run a controversial article in an attempt to attract readers. I am far less shocked that so many Campfire members have helped spread the word about this shocking article."
Might do this again, more or less randomly, until photos of women start outnumbering predictable posts on rifle cartridges.
I will agree the government adoption of the 223 Rem is a large part of its popularity. But, it is wildly popular and is likely the 2nd most popular round fired from a rifle.
If the 223 wasn't the adopted round for the AR-15, would the 222 rem or Rem Mag match this popularity? Hypothetically of course.
If the 30-06 wasn't adopted, would the 30/40 Krag still be the kind of the woods? Would we have a 270 Krag, 280 Krag, etc? Or maybe the 303 Brit would be the popular one...? Just wondering how things would have worked out had it all been different!
The 270 WSM is lucky to get 100fps on the regular old .270, which is what makes the 7Mag a joke also, as it won't even get that over a .280
From the Nosler manual: (Not that I need it having owned multiples of both). Top velocities:
280-150 from 26" Barrel: 2995,2990,2982,2966.
7 Rem Mag-150 from 24" barrel ( hardly even-steven but whatever): 3248,3240,3162,3128.
WE could talk 140's:
280-140 26" barrel 3152,3070,3056,3002.
7 Rem Mag-140 24" barrel: 3340,3318,3282,3263
280-175 from 26" Barrel: 2760
7 Rem Mag-175 from 24" barrel: 2970
I bogged down in math awhile ago,but sure looks like more than 100 fps to me.And all through this we are spotting the 280 2" of barrel.
In real life after 15-20 7 Rem Mags and maybe 6-7 280's (who knows?),and to simplify, the real world difference is the 7 Rem mag will do with a 160 what a 280 will do with a 140 day in and day out, rifle to rifle, and as near as we can guess at home pressure wise,which is somewhere between 3050-3100 fps....and it takes a good shot in the arm to get that velocity with a 280. You better be stomping on it
Most popular belted magnum....ever. Top 10 in reloading dies and factory ammo just about every year, far as I know.Used internationally, and the poor old 280 has taken a seat way at the back of the bus since 1962,despite its obvious virtues.Great cartridge.
Gotta think on this a bit and wonder..... what open country North American BG animal can't be taken with a 7 Rem Mag as far as we can hit properly (made easier by moderate recoil and bullets designed to the task). Be right back......
I can't think of any.
Overrated? I don't think so.
I'll bow to your experience, as I've only had 1 7mag and the two 280's I still have. Loaded to like pressures, unless you go with the heaviest common bullets for the chambering, the difference to 400 yards is virtually nill. The advantages of the 7mag have been somewhat expanded recently, in that we have super high BC hunting bullets in heavier weights, which is where the 7mag will shine against the .280. With the newer bullets, and relatively new super slow powders, the advantages are bigger than ever...and they are still not all that great.
I started playing with bottleneck centerfires in a Contender, about 25 years ago, so I understand the minutiae, squared. 7 TCU vs 7-30 Waters vs the 7mm BR in a XP...talk about splitting hairs over slight differences. lol
This is mainly why I stopped reading magazine articles 25 years ago and bought guns in diffrent cal and formed my own opinions.. I have actually never found a bad carterage.. They all fill a nitch. Some better than others. A few I just didn't like for what I thought they would be good for. The 17 Fireball comes to mind.
Actually, there were smokeless cartridges before the 8mm Lebel, but they weren't centerfire rifle cartridges.
Nobody really gave a schidt because women had been around for far longer, an attitude that can help the Campfire a lot--though apparently not for everybody.
Nothing new to post. Am just going to repeat what I posted this morning:
"Personally, I am SHOCKED that any magazine would run a controversial article in an attempt to attract readers. I am far less shocked that so many Campfire members have helped spread the word about this shocking article."
Might do this again, more or less randomly, until photos of women start outnumbering predictable posts on rifle cartridges.
I have my thoughts on this article, not entirely in agreement with the entire thing...what say you?
Without bother to read the other comments, two things come to mind:
1. The deploreable state of magazines these days, and NRA mags in particular. I can burn through an American Rifleman faster than a Guns and Ammo, which is saying something.
2. Who is this Bozo, and why should I give a rat's ass what he thinks about this or anything else. What an incredible waste of time and ink. The writer and the editor should both be horsewhipped.
I agree on the 300 Wby , 270 WSM, 458 WM and the 223, but not the Swift. The standard 270 Win does any thing you can ask for a 270 bullet to do, The lotts has it all over the 458 WM, I have never believed the 300 WBY could do anything the 300 WM couldn't do and the the 222 Remington Mag has it all over the 223 for loading with it longer neck. I love the 223 for hunting but in reality the 222 Mag is better.
Not strange that many folks on the fire have ass and titty on their mind all the time. Makes one wonder what they have in their hand.
Wonder if the site advertisers know they are supporting a porn site.
Your keen interest in what my hand is doing is very touching, if a little disturbing. Rest assured that I have someone that takes care of those matters for me.
Perhaps you should concentrate on the darkness in YOUR mind.
The rest of us are enjoying a joke.
As that great theologian Harry Callahan once said, "A man's got to know his limitations".
Someone that can't look at a picture of a pretty girl without getting all twitchy might want to think about staying off the www...
For sure I don't have a keen interest in what your hand is doing. I for one don't have any appreciation for your so called pussy and titty jokes. You want me to stay off the WWW fine, you keep your hand out of Inge's thong. I don't wish to thumb through soft porn to follow the dialogue in a thread.
For sure I don't have a keen interest in what your hand is doing. I for one don't have any appreciation for your so called pussy and titty jokes. You want me to stay off the WWW fine, you keep your hand out of Inge's thong. I don't wish to thumb through soft porn to follow the dialogue in a thread.
Settle down skippy. The heterosexual's of the thread are having fun.
For sure I don't have a keen interest in what your hand is doing. I for one don't have any appreciation for your so called pussy and titty jokes. You want me to stay off the WWW fine, you keep your hand out of Inge's thong. I don't wish to thumb through soft porn to follow the dialogue in a thread.
Clearly, if someone wishes to pick up the technical data on members' underpants, you da man!
Thanks for the experienced advice in such matters.
I know you have a deep appreciation for these pics so are you going to show them to your wife, or daughter, or mother? How about your boss so he'll know what's on the work computer.
I don't peruse this site hoping to find soft porn either. There are sites where I would expect that you'd find that sort of thing but a gun/hunting site isn't one.
Anyone who thinks this is soft core porn needs to have their head examined. These are beautiful girls in clothes. Like something you'd see in any magazine that your wife or daughter reads (shape, redbook, people, etc).
Jeeze - don't ruin this thread - it finally got interested. Honestly anyone who makes and argues "top 10 lists" is a goofball.
Thanks for the experienced advice in such matters.
I know you have a deep appreciation for these pics so are you going to show them to your wife, or daughter, or mother? How about your boss so he'll know what's on the work computer.
For sure I don't have a keen interest in what your hand is doing. I for one don't have any appreciation for your so called pussy and titty jokes. You want me to stay off the WWW fine, you keep your hand out of Inge's thong. I don't wish to thumb through soft porn to follow the dialogue in a thread.
Thanks for the experienced advice in such matters.
I know you have a deep appreciation for these pics so are you going to show them to your wife, or daughter, or mother? How about your boss so he'll know what's on the work computer.
Amen again! If they can't stay on topic, let us at least discuss food.
Thanks for the experienced advice in such matters.
I know you have a deep appreciation for these pics so are you going to show them to your wife, or daughter, or mother? How about your boss so he'll know what's on the work computer.
Amen again! If they can't stay on topic, let us at least discuss food.
I'm mostly a hunter, so I try to get closer to my target any time I can. Therefore, I think the magnums of 6mm-.300 calibers are much over-rated. Yes, they DO flatten trajectory a bit, but very long shots are very deliberate affairs, so a small bit of extra holdover isn't much of a big deal. Recoil, however, usually is for very many hunters. I've known way too many guys who've hit a deer poorly with a std. cal. rifle, and not knowing how to track, the deer got away (or you could say they just left them in the woods?). They then went out to get a "bigger gun," always a magnum of some stripe, and proceeded to NOT shoot it enough to get very well acquainted with it, and consequently, missed most of the deer they got shots at even more widely than before going to the magnums. This just isn't rocket science, but ... so many just don't THINK and REASON these days, that it's becoming commonplace. And when you try to politely point out the facts, they don't seem to want to hear it. Ain't it funny how that works? Evidently, having the "prestige" of owning a magnum seems to outweigh the utility of being able to shoot whatever rifle one has. I don't understand this kind of "logic," but I see it all the time. There's a reason we lod farts get crotchety. We just get really tired of listening to excuses and outright silliness when we want to talk hunting and shooting. And we get kinda' tired of being told how wrong we are when we kill every deer we shoot at while so many of the stylish tyros miss most of them. Yes, it's hard for the urban crew to find a place to shoot, and expensive when they get there, but .... how expensive is the entirety of the hunt??? Economics alone seems to indicate that knowing how to shoot is the main ingredient, so if a fellow wants to shoot a .243/6mm, or a 378 Weatherby, I say more power to him AS LONG AS HE CAN SHOOT IT. Unfortunately, most of us can't shoot the big, loud magnums very much, and that inhibits accuracy and shot placement on game, so .... it's a no-brainer for me, but I seem to have a little different perspective than most these days. Logic just doesn't seem to be of much interest now.
Could be something to this - there's always more 7mm RM's for sale on the used rack than anything else. One could say that's because it's so popular it outsells the others so there are more out there. My impression though has been that people that do buy them, move on to something else and don't keep them.
Little Known Facts about Firearms: The 45 Elias Steamer Copyright 2015 - Cletus Tenderloin
.........Elias Martineau
In 1889, Elias Martineau, of the Louisiana ‘salt water boiled chicken' Martineaus, constructed the first steam driven, self-contained cartridge – the 45 Elias Steamer.
Elias lived just outside of Lafayette, in the newly created Acadia Parish. God bless him, his intentions were honorable, but he just wasn’t too bright. He figured to capitalize on the family idea of using boiled salt water from the Gulf. Instead of cooking chicken though, he wanted to use steam to propel bullets. Sadly, neither the Martineau chicken recipe nor Elias’ steam driven bullet idea took off.
Originally, Elias thought that he could create something that would rival the black powder and new smokeless powder cartridges of the day. He worked hard to build a tiny steam chamber and water reservoir inside a 45-70 case. He chose the 45-70 because of its availability and the sheer number of single shot rifles piled up in his shed.
For about 18 months he worked tirelessly, modifying cases with wee chambers and a single, steam driven piston. The effort took most of his time and ruined his eyesight. When it became too difficult to use even large magnifying glasses, he imported ‘illegals’ from Tennessee to labor in his small shed. He was determined to succeed, despite employing people from the Smoky Mountains.
Had Elias made one or two prototypes before going into mass production, he might have realized his idea wouldn’t hold water. Or, more to the point, wouldn’t hold enough water. While the principle of steam pressure had been proven in locomotives, it was a new idea in bullet propulsion. This was the golden age of firearms however, when a new idea was born every week, and testing procedures were not standardized.
In July of 1890, Elias’ small staff had produced 10 steam driven cartridges, and the day of testing had arrived. Five men went into Martineau’s backyard, set up a firing bench, a target stand, and one fellow even remembered to bring refreshments and lunch. The very first target was a 30x30 piece of deer hide, held onto the stand with wire.
At the firing line, Elias' men piled boxes of bottles, cans, old shoes and boots, hats and even a small chicken in a cage. After the initial test on the deer hide, these items were to be shot up to demonstrate the accuracy and firepower of the 45 Elias Steamer.
Elias carefully laid out the ten new cartridges on the table. He put on a new shirt, combed his hair and called for his rifle – a well-used Springfield trapdoor. Calvin Victor, his assistant, brought it to him and motioned for the camera. This was a historic moment! That’s when Elias' employees realized that in their haste to construct this new steam driven cartridge, they had forgot to modify a rifle to fire it. So they went home.
Sadly, Elias Martineau would not live to see his dream come true. Two months after the failed test, he was struck and killed by a driverless horse and buggy in the laneway of his farm, while walking to the outhouse.
And now you know the best of the story!
WHo is this Cletus Tenderloin fella Steve? I google fuud him and found his facebook page. There is some wonderfully disturbing stuff mixed in there with his posts.
Is this guy a Canadian Patrick McManus or something?
Well, the AK47 does indeed have a very distinct sound... Closer to it is definitely not better. Then again the M1A when the "clip" (en-block loader) ejects is another very distinct sound.
Little Known Facts about Firearms: The 45 Elias Steamer Copyright 2015 - Cletus Tenderloin
.........Elias Martineau
In 1889, Elias Martineau, of the Louisiana ‘salt water boiled chicken' Martineaus, constructed the first steam driven, self-contained cartridge – the 45 Elias Steamer.
Elias lived just outside of Lafayette, in the newly created Acadia Parish. God bless him, his intentions were honorable, but he just wasn’t too bright. He figured to capitalize on the family idea of using boiled salt water from the Gulf. Instead of cooking chicken though, he wanted to use steam to propel bullets. Sadly, neither the Martineau chicken recipe nor Elias’ steam driven bullet idea took off.
Originally, Elias thought that he could create something that would rival the black powder and new smokeless powder cartridges of the day. He worked hard to build a tiny steam chamber and water reservoir inside a 45-70 case. He chose the 45-70 because of its availability and the sheer number of single shot rifles piled up in his shed.
For about 18 months he worked tirelessly, modifying cases with wee chambers and a single, steam driven piston. The effort took most of his time and ruined his eyesight. When it became too difficult to use even large magnifying glasses, he imported ‘illegals’ from Tennessee to labor in his small shed. He was determined to succeed, despite employing people from the Smoky Mountains.
Had Elias made one or two prototypes before going into mass production, he might have realized his idea wouldn’t hold water. Or, more to the point, wouldn’t hold enough water. While the principle of steam pressure had been proven in locomotives, it was a new idea in bullet propulsion. This was the golden age of firearms however, when a new idea was born every week, and testing procedures were not standardized.
In July of 1890, Elias’ small staff had produced 10 steam driven cartridges, and the day of testing had arrived. Five men went into Martineau’s backyard, set up a firing bench, a target stand, and one fellow even remembered to bring refreshments and lunch. The very first target was a 30x30 piece of deer hide, held onto the stand with wire.
At the firing line, Elias' men piled boxes of bottles, cans, old shoes and boots, hats and even a small chicken in a cage. After the initial test on the deer hide, these items were to be shot up to demonstrate the accuracy and firepower of the 45 Elias Steamer.
Elias carefully laid out the ten new cartridges on the table. He put on a new shirt, combed his hair and called for his rifle – a well-used Springfield trapdoor. Calvin Victor, his assistant, brought it to him and motioned for the camera. This was a historic moment! That’s when Elias' employees realized that in their haste to construct this new steam driven cartridge, they had forgot to modify a rifle to fire it. So they went home.
Sadly, Elias Martineau would not live to see his dream come true. Two months after the failed test, he was struck and killed by a driverless horse and buggy in the laneway of his farm, while walking to the outhouse.
And now you know the best of the story!
WHo is this Cletus Tenderloin fella Steve? I google fuud him and found his facebook page. There is some wonderfully disturbing stuff mixed in there with his posts.
Is this guy a Canadian Patrick McManus or something?
Shows a remarkable resemblance to Liver Eatin' Johnson!
I would have to say the 270 Win is overrated. To listen to some on here, just touching a 270 will turn you gay within a week. I got a 270 over 35 years ago, before I heard of the rumored gay transformational properties here on the Fire. Even after that time it has not turned me gay. The gayness of the 270 is way overrated.
Hope you realize how you are putting in jeopardy the viability of this site and the reputation of the gun writers who so kindly post on this forum. They don't want to have their reputation impugned by having their readers know that they post on sites that tolerate soft porn. Also your selfish attitude is putting in jeopardy this sport that we all like. This site is the largest hunting and shooting site on the web and as such is monitored by the antis. All it takes is a few letters to the sites advertisers to put this site in jeopardy. Your very selfish attitude is destructive to all posters on this site.
Hope you realize how you are putting in jeopardy the viability of this site and the reputation of the gun writers who so kindly post on this forum. They don't want to have their reputation impugned by having their readers know that they post on sites that tolerate soft porn. Also your selfish attitude is putting in jeopardy this sport that we all like. This site is the largest hunting and shooting site on the web and as such is monitored by the antis. All it takes is a few letters to the sites advertisers to put this site in jeopardy. Your very selfish attitude is destructive to all posters on this site.
Bad experience as a lad at a church youth group camp?
Could be something to this - there's always more 7mm RM's for sale on the used rack than anything else. One could say that's because it's so popular it outsells the others so there are more out there. My impression though has been that people that do buy them, move on to something else and don't keep them.
Now to finish reading this silly thread...
Yes and also the 270 is for sale on a lot of used racks as is the dearly loved 06 and the 243.
The 7mm RM is bewteen the 270/280 and the 300 Win Mag.
If it has too much kick for pussies, they can load it down to 270 power.
Smithrjd: The M1A doesn't use an en bloc clip, that's the M1 Garand. The M1A, aka M14 in military dress (full auto select) uses a 20 Rd Magazine. Actually, the 280 Under rated if anything. If it has a belt on it, then most likely over rated.
No, but I for one like my hunting and shooting entertainment and want to protect it. I know you don't agree with me, so go right ahead and promote your porn values and scare people away from our sport. You can throw all kids of arrows at me, but please help to protect and,promote our sport?
I miss the days when the magazine guy would knock on our door and try to sell us subscriptions. You know...for THOSE magazines. We'd keep them in the tool box in the garage because our wives or mothers never looked in there.
Everyone had a different way of getting their Playboy out to the duck blind or fishing camp. Some guys would roll them up and slide them in their boots. Some guys had a "tool box" full, complete with Texaco and Holley stickers, and put them in the truck or the trunk the morning they left.
My buddy's dad used to roll up racy calendars and keep them in shotgun barrels. Piles of well worn magazines were left out all year in the outhouse at our hunt camp. I know we weren't alone in that practice.
Then there was the moonshine, but that's best left for another thread.
Thanks for the historical view. Unfortunately with the WWW this stuff is no longer secret, but is viewable by everyone. Once on the web, always on the web.
You cannot run a laptop where we hunt and fish. Someone has to bring a generator. And there's no Internetto. It might be on the web, but you gotta get be able to get the web.
Most posters here agree that poaching hurts our sport and will vigorously speak against it. Yet that same person will vigorously post porn on the Internet where the antis can see that postings. Porn reflects negatively on our hunting and shooting sports just like poaching. The advertisers on this site do not condone porn posting, none of them. Cabelas, MidwayUSA, Hornady, progressive Insurance do not, I'm pretty sure that the sponsor over on the optics forum wouldn't be happy with posting porn on one of his threads. How about the NRA?
Besides embarrassing to the female members here it is degrading to them as well.
All of us need to guard the image we project to the outside.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ The article is simply a modern iteration of the old stir-the-pot articles that used to appear in Guns and Ammo and others of that ilk: "9mm vs. .38 Special" "Make Mine a 12 Gauge" "The 3" 20 Gauge Makes the 12 Gauge Obsolete" "16 Gauge - Heavy Enough for Waterfowl/Light Enough for Upland" "16 Gauge - Too Light for Ducks/Too Heavy for Upland" ".270 vs .30-06" "9mm vs .45" and on and on and on.
Good questions to ask would be : Over rated by whom? Relative to what?
Most posters here agree that poaching hurts our sport and will vigorously speak against it. Yet that same person will vigorously post porn on the Internet where the antis can see that postings. Porn reflects negatively on our hunting and shooting sports just like poaching. The advertisers on this site do not condone porn posting, none of them. Cabelas, MidwayUSA, Hornady, progressive Insurance do not, I'm pretty sure that the sponsor over on the optics forum wouldn't be happy with posting porn on one of his threads. How about the NRA?
Besides embarrassing to the female members here it is degrading to them as well.
All of us need to guard the image we project to the outside.
Hope you realize how you are putting in jeopardy the viability of this site and the reputation of the gun writers who so kindly post on this forum. They don't want to have their reputation impugned by having their readers know that they post on sites that tolerate soft porn. Also your selfish attitude is putting in jeopardy this sport that we all like. This site is the largest hunting and shooting site on the web and as such is monitored by the antis. All it takes is a few letters to the sites advertisers to put this site in jeopardy. Your very selfish attitude is destructive to all posters on this site.
You would be right IF what has been shown was pornography BUT what has been shown is not Pornography. More than what has been shown is seen daily on soaps ,commercials and at public pools and beaches. And by car washers raising money for churches.
Your oppinion is important and valued ,however your oppinion and others(most here)dont seem to match. And their oppinion matters as well.
As far as embarrassing or Degrading to the female members here I rather doubt that as for the most part women dont mind being idolized and gazed upon. As a matter of fact I have heard that many go out of their way to be so !
I highly doubt that advertisers here will "pull" their ads because of it.
In general, I haven't found the people in the firearms industry offended by women in somewhat skimpy clothing. If they were, they wouldn't hold the Shooting, Hunting and Outdoor Trade (SHOT) Show in Las Vegas every year--complete with a somewhat skimpily clothed women in some of the booths.
The past few years have set records of over 60,000 attendees, and SHOT isn't open to the public.
Most posters here agree that poaching hurts our sport and will vigorously speak against it. Yet that same person will vigorously post porn on the Internet where the antis can see that postings. Porn reflects negatively on our hunting and shooting sports just like poaching. The advertisers on this site do not condone porn posting, none of them. Cabelas, MidwayUSA, Hornady, progressive Insurance do not, I'm pretty sure that the sponsor over on the optics forum wouldn't be happy with posting porn on one of his threads. How about the NRA?
Besides embarrassing to the female members here it is degrading to them as well.
All of us need to guard the image we project to the outside.
In general, I haven't found the people in the firearms industry offended by women in somewhat skimpy clothing. If they were, they wouldn't hold the Shooting, Hunting and Outdoor Trade (SHOT) Show in Las Vegas every year--complete with a somewhat skimpily clothed women in some of the booths.
The past few years have set records of over 60,000 attendees, and SHOT isn't open to the public.
Half of Dillon's annual sales is probably from calendars.
Horsefeathers. They're kissin' kin. Even Bell used a 6.5. For awhile.
Problem I have with sound of the 7.62x39 is it always starts out as a raspy crackly noise. It ends with massive HE detonations. That's the way I remember it anyway. Damn homing beacon for snake'n nape.
Most posters here agree that poaching hurts our sport and will vigorously speak against it. Yet that same person will vigorously post porn on the Internet where the antis can see that postings. Porn reflects negatively on our hunting and shooting sports just like poaching. The advertisers on this site do not condone porn posting, none of them. Cabelas, MidwayUSA, Hornady, progressive Insurance do not, I'm pretty sure that the sponsor over on the optics forum wouldn't be happy with posting porn on one of his threads. How about the NRA?
Besides embarrassing to the female members here it is degrading to them as well.
All of us need to guard the image we project to the outside.
Ed,
I believe you have found something that you consider Politically Incorrect and are vigorously trying to rid this site of it. That's over half of what's wrong with this country now - an almost fanatical devotion to Political Correctness (PC). If you don't like the pics of gorgeous babes put that poster on ignore. The rest of us will just continue to enjoy the scenery.
Many moons ago, Burt Carey contacted me to see if I'd be interested in submitting to California Game and Fish.
"Well, sure... Why not"?
Now, Burt was a swell guy... No issues with him...
But the corporate culture of Game and Fish Publishing back then seemed to presuppose that anyone interested in hunting or fishing was either an unemployed dweller of a rented 'Section 8' trailer-house at best or a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal at worst.
My tenure writing for Game and Fish was pretty short-lived as I found little joy in lowest common denominator writing and didn't need the gig.
My point is that a guy can always say "Uh, no... I don't think so" to an editor -unless he's on staff, of course.
Personally, though, there ain't enough money in the world to make me happy writing the sort of piece that is the subject of this thread.
I'd much rather write for California Fly Fisher or Sporting Days California or some other publication I have written for or continue to write for, where I not only have masthead credit but work with editors who let me submit whatever I feel like submitting, without wasting our mutual time in querying first, and where I can write the kind of stuff I like to read.
If the product isn't something I would want to pay for or read, I'd rather not waste my time writing it in the first place.
So that's why I'm sticking with "knife" over "paycheck"...
But I'm sure your're right. Not everybody sees the thing the way I do, and not everybody cares as much as I do about what their name is associated with.
What was the name of the guide that got sick and couldn't guide Jack O'Connor up Mt. Hujocks for sheeps? I think that was in 1951, but that's not important.
He said that Jack wouldn't use any cartridge that was underrated by the Underrater's Laboratory. This organization is still around and still underrating things - both the ethereal and the earthy.
If you want to get under the skin of any writer, ask about paying your dues to the Underwriter's Laboratory! Hey, we all gotta start somewhere.
It simply duplicates or slightly improves upon the H&H in a standard length action with, often a shorter barrel, and at a good price point I might add. It fills a niche, albeit a small one, something that can't be said for a lot of stuff that's come and gone recently.
If it's overrated from a ballistic standpoint, so is the H&H. I don't think that idea will sell very well.
What was the name of the guide that got sick and couldn't guide Jack O'Connor up Mt. Hujocks for sheeps? I think that was in 1951, but that's not important.
He said that Jack wouldn't use any cartridge that was underrated by the Underrater's Laboratory. This organization is still around and still underrating things - both the ethereal and the earthy.
If you want to get under the skin of any writer, ask about paying your dues to the Underwriter's Laboratory! Hey, we all gotta start somewhere.
Steve, was it you that thought these up?
1. Coffee (n.), the person upon whom one coughs. 2. Flabbergasted (adj.), appalled over how much weight you have gained. 3. Abdicate (v.), to give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach. 4. Esplanade (v.), to attempt an explanation while drunk. 5. Willy-nilly (adj.), impotent. 6. Negligent (adj.), describes a condition in which you absentmindedly answer the door in your nightgown. 7. Lymph (v.), to walk with a lisp. 8. Gargoyle (n.), olive-flavored mouthwash. 9. Flatulence (n.) emergency vehicle that picks you up after you are run over by a steamroller. 10 Balderdash (n.), a rapidly receding hairline. 11. Testicle (n.), a humorous question on an exam. 12. Rectitude (n.), the formal, dignified bearing adopted by proctologists. 13. Pokemon (n), a Rastafarian proctologist. 14. Oyster (n.), a person who sprinkles his conversation with Yiddishisms. 15. Frisbeetarianism (n.), The belief that, when you die, your soul flies up onto the roof and gets stuck there. 16. Circumvent (n.), an opening in the front of boxer shorts worn by Jewish men
What was the name of the guide that got sick and couldn't guide Jack O'Connor up Mt. Hujocks for sheeps? I think that was in 1951, but that's not important.
He said that Jack wouldn't use any cartridge that was underrated by the Underrater's Laboratory. This organization is still around and still underrating things - both the ethereal and the earthy.
If you want to get under the skin of any writer, ask about paying your dues to the Underwriter's Laboratory! Hey, we all gotta start somewhere.
Steve, was it you that thought these up?
1. Coffee (n.), the person upon whom one coughs. 2. Flabbergasted (adj.), appalled over how much weight you have gained. 3. Abdicate (v.), to give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach. 4. Esplanade (v.), to attempt an explanation while drunk. 5. Willy-nilly (adj.), impotent. 6. Negligent (adj.), describes a condition in which you absentmindedly answer the door in your nightgown. 7. Lymph (v.), to walk with a lisp. 8. Gargoyle (n.), olive-flavored mouthwash. 9. Flatulence (n.) emergency vehicle that picks you up after you are run over by a steamroller. 10 Balderdash (n.), a rapidly receding hairline. 11. Testicle (n.), a humorous question on an exam. 12. Rectitude (n.), the formal, dignified bearing adopted by proctologists. 13. Pokemon (n), a Rastafarian proctologist. 14. Oyster (n.), a person who sprinkles his conversation with Yiddishisms. 15. Frisbeetarianism (n.), The belief that, when you die, your soul flies up onto the roof and gets stuck there. 16. Circumvent (n.), an opening in the front of boxer shorts worn by Jewish men
Jiminy Jillickers, Ed! You're from the 'Show Me' state. So I'll show you some pictures. These are my neighbors. They're great people, even if they don't look like us. The only negative, if you can call it that is that my wife won't have them over on days when she hangs the wash. "Too many hairs on the sheets!" she says.
This is my next door neighbor Ricky, and his wife Lucy. Nice looking couple, don't you think? They're nudists, just like most Californians. (Except N. Californians)
This is Little Ricky. He's named after his dad, but you knew that. He sure looks like Lucy though. We don't mention his big ears. Between you and me, Lucy and Dumbo look a lot alike from the front.
Now Ricky is partial to the Euro cartridges. In fact, he always says, "If it ain't metric, it's sheit!" He's partial to Mausers and German stuff in general. He likes hunting with what most folks call the 8x57mm. For anything larger than a deer, he uses the 8mm Remington Magnum.
In Ricky's own words, "If Greg Doddington likes it, then so do I!"
No one argues with him much because his brother is a big guy and hunts with him. But he's, you know...that way. Wears comfortable shoes...if you know what I mean.
I added this picture of Ricky's dad because even though he's in his 70s, he's still got all his marbles. He just doesn't have all his hair. Old Ricky only ever hunted with a 30-30, which in his words, "Was a very underrated cartriudge."
This has been a fun thread considering it all started with such a lame article. Goes to show that pretty girls and Campfire drama (humor) can salvage anything.
) 
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bleh!)
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