My girlfriend is looking to buy her first hunting rifle. She's 4'10" and 100lbs so a full sized stock is to big for her. She is currently shooting a barrowed marlin 336 chambered in 30-30 with a youth shock and a 20" barrel. We've been shooting the Remington factory 150gr load and she's handling the recoil well.
We looked into buying a new 336 but the gun shop owner said that more than a few of the newer marlins that have come through his store have had quality and accuracy issues. He suggested finding an older one if that's what she really wanted but he really recommended looking into the Ruger American compact. Well we took a look at the compact and I thought it looked and felt like a nice rifle for the price and my girlfriend thought that it fit her great.
She'll be hunting mostly whitetail and black bear. I know the .243 has probably killed plenty of bears but I would feel better about her using something a little bigger and the next step up in the American is the 7mm-08. I've never fired a 7mm-08 so I have a few questions. The ruger American compact has an 18" barrel and weighs only 6lbs without scope. Where she hunts shots rarely exceed 100 yards so the loss of some velocity with the 18" barrel isn't a big concern but I've been told that the muzzle blast could be severe. Also what would recoil be like in a 7mm-08 rifle that is only 6lbs? What do you think of the RA compact chambered in 7mm-08?

Since they have been discontinued, you might get a better deal on a Marlin XS7 in 7mm-08 or 308. Palmetto State Armory has the XS7 in 24 on sale for $250 and most Savage 110 series barrels are a screw-in fit.

www.palmettostatearmory.com

I have the same rifle in .308, with the short stock and 150gr loads the recoil was fairly mild. Mine shoots well under an inch at 100yd with cheap Winchester factory ammo.
My friends boys shoot over 200 rounds of cast bullets, while theses are lighter loads they are only 9 and 11.
If you don't load ,see if you can find some reduced recoil factory loads . If not perhaps pad her jacket with a folded towel.
Rifle fit is the number 1 issue . Ensure she has great ear protection so the muzzle blast isn't the issue.

Flyer

You are correct to be concerned about muzzle blast.

It's pretty hellacious in that 18 inch barrel and the recoil will exceed that of the Marlin 30-30 as well.

Get her a 22 inch barrel. She'll be more comfortable and shoot better, too, because the rifle will balance better.

I've heard a lot of good about the inexpensive Marlin XS7 models if you can't make the Ruger American work.

For your type of hunting the 30-30 is excellent and I hear Marlin has gotten their 336 quality control issues under control......look at some new ones. They look pretty good, and that gives you another good option. If she's used to the lever action and likes it.....why change?

I do reload so I can make reduced loads. I was just curious what full power loads would feel like.
I have a friend that has an sx7 and honestly the ruger feels like a better gun to me but than again I haven't shot the ruger American so I really can't fairly compair the two.
What do you think about getting a standard american with a 22" barrel and putting a compact stock on it?

That would be an excellent solution.

The 7-08 is great, but for what she is doing, I'd consider a Ruger American Compact in 308 with the option of shooting the factory available reduced recoil loads.

There's not much muzzle blast from a 18" 308 with full power loads, and with the Reduced Recoil loads, it will have less recoil than a 30-30 with 4x the range.

In 308, there is insignificant velocity loss in an 18" barrel...plus the barrels they come with generally shoot well.

So while still being light and handy like the Marlin it's a big step up in capability and a good rifle choice.

So would be a Montana, but at 3x the price.

First of all, the muzzle blast is hellacious, as I said.

Second of all, if you can get less recoil and four times the range of a 30-30 out of a reduced .308 load you have somehow created a whole new science of ballistics and basic Physics.

Well for what its worth. My Daughter has a Tikka 7 mag and a Tika hunter in 308 with a cut down stock and a Limbsaver recoil pad with Edwards recoil reducers. You don't even know it is going off. She uses the 7 mag for Elk and Mulies and the 308 for pigs. To make a long story short, she shot my Left hand Ruger Hawkeye in 7mm-08 and decided she wanted to try a 7-08. She got a Tikka compact in that caliber, put a Leupold variable on it with DNZ mounts. It literally shoots a MOA with everything you put in it. I asked her what was her favorite rifle and she said the 7-08. They cost a bit more than the American but I think the cost is worth it.

Tikkas are indeed one of the best rifles available for the money, maybe THE best at this time.

Oh, it's gonna have a 22 inch barrel, too.

Comparisons of recoil from males will result in poor and/or misguided information. I have taught dozens of women from children to grandmothers and rest assurd in identical setups of guns/scopes, none favored a 7-08 above a 243. Nor for that matter a 260, 308, 270 or any other "low recoiling" cartridge. The only chambering that they picked more is the 223.


While for most adult males the difference in recoil between a 95gr bullet from a 243 and a 120/130/140gr from a 7-08 may go unnoticed, to children and women it does not. And in truth everyone will notice the difference after a full day of of practice with 100-200 rounds.


Killing is easy yet so many seek to make it difficult. A 243 with 95gr Nosler BallisticTips put into the chest will turf every deer that walks and in spectacular fashion. Killing "power" is about hitting and hitting with a rifle is all about proper practice which is directly correlated to round count. More primers will be popped with a 243 than with a 7-08 and the body count follows the same.

My 308 Rem 600 has outstanding muzzle blast and recoil. By adding a recoil pad and loading down about 2 grains, I get a system that is decently pleasant to shoot. I get about 2660 FPS with a 150 grain pill, and that will maintain the 2100 FPS necessary to open a standard cup and core bullet out to 250 yards. For bullets that will open at 1800 FPS, the range is more like 350-400 yards.

A 30-30 loaded with a 160 grain FTX bullet and Leverevolution powder will get you 2400 FPS, and quite a bit more range than the old school flat points.

If you actually shoot them both it will make more sense...

I have several 18" 308 carbines and never really notice the muzzle blast, but if it seems excessive to you, that's likely a difference in individual perceptions...it doesn't bother me, and my 94 seems to kick harder from the bench than my 308s with full power loads, but both are relatively mild.

The 308 benefits muchly from the greatly improved BC of pointy bullets vs roundnose bullets...that's just basic aerodynamics...

But when I need to make shots at distance, in actual use not on paper, and if I need to hit something on the ranch that's wary and way out there, I can shoot any of my bolt action rifles and consistently make shots I wouldn't even try with a 30-30 lever.

They are two completely different platforms...there's really no comparison. Even when loaded with spitzer bullets, a lever 30-30 is still a far ways from being the equal of a similar size 308 carbine.

The 7-08 is always a good choice, but might have to be loaded down. A standard Creedmore is a high performer with mild recoil. A 243 is a real work horse with the right bullet, and low recoil even with full power loads.

Actually, any of the rounds they chamber in the RAR will be fine and still be more capable, even with reduced loads, than the 30-30.

A RAR is a decent working tool for the least money, so if she likes the rifle, pick one and load it down the way she likes it.

My daughter isn't much bigger. She tried a Remington Mountain rifle in 280 Remington. It was too much recoil for her. We ended up getting a Ruger American in 243.

My 5ft. tall wife shoots a Model Seven in 7mm-08 in an 18.5" barrel with no problem. It's about the same size and weight as a Ruger Compact.

My daughter borrowed it and punched three Nosler Partitions through an elk at 180 yards. No complaints about the lethality either.

I've no doubt it is HELLACIOUS for you.



For most others you'll be fine, don't load max loads of the slowest powder you can find.

A friend bought an American Compact in 7-08 for his young son and daughter to deer hunt with. He shoots 120gr Federal Fusions from it and accuracy is excellent, recoil is very manageable, muzzle blast is no worse than any other high powered rifle and it points and handles great.

After sighting it in he is now looking for one for his young son and daughter to hunt with since he claimed the 1st one.

I've never hunted with a .243 but I know plenty who do and swear by then. My concern with the .243 is with bear hunting. The bears around here can get quite large. Although most bears that are taken go around 200lb or so its not uncommon to see one that is well over 300 and every season someone shoots one close to or even over 500lbs. I know that shot placement is king but will a well placed .234 be reliable on a large bear? Thanks, I appreciate your advice.

Where do you live that has bears that large?

Since your GF shoots a Marlin 336, she might do well with a Marlin 336 SC (Sporting Carbine) in 35 Remington. If you reload, you could use 180 grain Speer FPs for deer and 220 grain FPs for anything needing greater penetration.

I went through 4 rifles in .243 before finding one my girl would shoot consistently. It was never a 'recoil' issue...... rather a stock fit/muzzle blast/cheek weld issue. Buy a rifle that sets-up well for her, not you, and buy it in a caliber she can shoot enough to learn to shoot it well. In the end,my girl got a .260 CTR...

I'd rather have a .243/95 through both lungs of a bear..... than a .33 ÜBERsaurus in the ass...... unless Hack is around with 2-miles of steel cable.

Amen. Too many men impose their ideas of hunting rifles on women, usually by buying a rifle they actually want.

Somebody wise (or maybe a wise-ass) once noted that apparently the only people who have trouble killing big game with the .243 Winchester are gun writers.

Get a 243 and run the 85TSX. It will work fine.

know a gal that used to live here that took dang near every species of game with a .243

granted her hubby was backing her up with a larger caliber

but no flies on the lethality of a .243

as far as 7-'08 I shoot that one out of a 5.5 lb. Nula and recoil is negligible.

whether your bride would feel the same way about it is hard to say.

but do think the best advice is to let her try as many makes and calibers as possible and let her decide what's best for her while keeping your input to nil

what you'd like her to have and what she's most comfortable with, may be a ways apart.

O.K., I'm going to jump in again. As a retired Gunsmith and stock-maker, what ever caliber you decide on the fit of the stock is a deciding factor on accuracy and recoil. The better the stock fit the more of your body will absorb and distribute the recoil. The better the fit the quicker and more accurately a shot can be made. I lean towards the 7-08 as with the new ammo coming on the market I think the selection issue is a mute point. What ever rifle and caliber you choose, make sure she is comfortable handling and shooting it.

Greene county NY. A few years back a bear was taken at around 700lbs. last season a bear was taken the hit the scale at 580lbs. The bear population has gotten so large that the state opened a new early September rifle season last year.

I know where that is! I've skied at Hunter a few times and used to buy/sell/trade with a guy in Saugerties who collected Standard rifles. Greene County isn't what most people think of when they think of New York.

If she handles the recoil from a .30/30 carbine, a .308 with a decent pad will likely be okay for her. An 18" barrel, will be loud, so don't let her practice without good protection and consider a Game Ear or other protection in the field. Load some light practice loads with H4895 and consider 130gr X-bullets or 150gr partitions or other premium, lighter weight bullets for hunting. At the first sign of recoil-sensitivity, get her a P.A.S.T. pad. She can do this, just don't try to "make a man out of her".

Another option would be to buy a RAR compact stock and put it on a 22" rifle. I got a Hawkeye synthetic stock direct from Ruger for less than $60.

Lucky you for having a girl that likes to hunt and shoot.

Thanks you all the great advice.
Although she wasn't able to shoot the Ruger she really liked the way the compact stock felt. The question is what to get. Would it be ridiculous to get a standard American with a 22" barrel and put a compact stock on it? I'm thinking that especially in .243 the 18" barrel would increase blast and cut performance. What would be better full power .243 loads or reduced 7mm-08 loads?

4'10"/100#?
I'm going to need pictures to properly evaluate...for uh, length of pull and comb drop...and stuff.

I work at Hunter mountain as a ski patroller. On warm spring days its not unusual to have bears wonder onto the slopes.

A Standard American with a Compact stock is what I was planning on getting for my 8yo son, whose not much smaller than your girlfriend. I figured that if after using it awhile and she wanted a shorter barrel that it would be easier to trim the 22" than to have to do a whole rebarrel on the 18".

I like my 7-08 and I haven't used any reduced loads in it but the more I shoot my 243 and the more things I shoot with my 243 the more I like it. I have been impressed with the 80 GMX and 80 TTSX loaded to the hilt in both the accuracy and terminal departments. Granted it's only been on whitetails but I've not been left wanting more performance from my 243 Win and mono bullets.

Here you go. I'm 5'9" and 165lb and I look like a giant next to her. A compact stock is the only way to go.

I too would see if I could find a Marlin X7 youth/compact and have her try it out. Nice thing about it is you can cut the barrel to 20" if you want...after letting her try it out. Also the X7 isn't quite as light as the Ruger and a little extra weight will only help in the recoil department. I'd get the 7-08 for her as well. You can load a 7-08 to feel like a 243 or a 30-30. The famous 120bt load would be great one IMO...there literally hundreds on here that swear by that bullet in the 7-08.

You want to arm a redhead?
I question your judgment.

My 8 year old grandson used a compact American in 7-08 to take his first deer last fall. 100 yd shot, bang flop. Used the Hornady custom lite load with 120 grain sst. Don't think he even noticed the recoil and he weighs well under 100 pounds.

Zero issues. 95gr NBT or 80gr TTSX and go kill things.

Would you buy a V8 and then rip out spark plugs?

No matter what you get her, she may want a Beartooth Comb kit so she can comfortably align with the scope.

GE

She is small dude...you look like a pro basketball player standing next to her...:)

There are a lot of good great rifle choices available to you, but again...for what you guys are doing it won't matter.

A 308 or 7-08 down-loaded to 30-30 levels with 4895 or faster powder will have minimal recoil and muzzle blast and will work just as well or better than the 30-30 she is using now...I vote for much better!

As to recoil, the better stock design of the Ruger will minimize recoil as well.

My choice would be a Stainless Ruger Compact in 308, but 7-08 is also a great choice, and either of those two calibers are excellent performers in a shorter barrel.

Unless you are shooting regularly at long range, barrel length is more about how the rifle feels and balances. I don't have any that short, but 16" 308s regularly perform well at the 1000 yard line, and I seem to remember that the 7-08 was originally released in the 18" Rem Model 7...another very good option for a person of small stature.

Anyway, I'd be very confident with either one.

Get the shorter barrel to go with the shorter stock, and always have her use ear protection.

The longer barrel throws off the balance.

I like the compact 7-08 starting with lighter loads to begin working to full strength slowly after several sessions and lots of rounds. If it is too much for her sell it and move down. Use plugs and muffs for practice mixing in a 22 (Ruger American would work best) to encourage good no recoil trigger pull.

You can buy both for the cost of a more expensive average cost rifle and you get a nice plinker in the process. If you go with a longer barrel certainly use shooting sticks to assist her managing weight to be able to stay on target for a longer time.

I have been assisting 2 smaller framed young gals and a 10 year old grandson to become more comfortable shooting hunting rifles. They can all easily manage loaded down 30-06 110 grain loads in a RAR so your gal should be able to do well with a rifle that fits her.

One of the gals is preparing for a competition where she has to shoot a gun capable of taking a cape buffalo. She nailed the target 3 times yesterday with full boat 300 Weatherby 180 grain loads out of my rifle shooting as fast as she could at 70 yards and she just started shooting a few months ago. Good technique and concentration is more effective than extra beef.

+1

Seen it work with 3 kids that age/size, using 700 youth rifles and either factory light loads or light handloads. Easy to hit with to 200 yards. I really like the 700, as it comes with a 20" tube and a Supercell pad.

When my wife started shooting I let her try a .223, a .243, 7mm-08 and .308 (all chambered in Remington 788's). Her favorite was the 7mm-08 because it had the 18 1/2" barrel. I trimmed the stock to fit her and added a Pachmayr recoil pad.

She handloads the Remington 175 grain Core-Lokt at about 2250 fps. The muzzle blast is the same as that from a 22" barrel as far as I can tell. It is very accurate, recoil is mild and she has killed two deer with one shot each. She loves it and would not take a pile of money for it.

Just another sample of one and YMMV but hope this helps.

I'd bet a Marlon 30-30 would work.

My son, now 15, started deer hunting at 9 using a very light 308 with 20' barrel and Remington 125g reduced recoil loads. He has killed nine deer and a few hogs. The bullet always performed well, but more importantly, the shots were well placed. Most animals dropped in tracks; longest shot was about 125 yards. The light rifle was easy to maneuver, so he could get into comfortable shooting positions. We practiced with it often, but only after shooting a 22 first and then shooting from a stable position at a 50 yard target. He would only take one or two shots with the 308, then back to the 22 with basically the same scope. This built great confidence and no flinch.

I have this very carbine also in 7mm-08 and I am shooting
139 gr hornadys..The little gun has no kick and not overy
loud.Wear ear muffs while practicing and your lady will be
Fine...

I agree with the poster who suggested buying the standard rifle and adding a compact stock- that is the best situation. I would also suggest using Nosler 120 BTs or 120 Barnes for reduced recoil.

Son in law just got a Savage Axis 7mm-08 Muddy Girl Camo stocked for my granddaughter who is 9 yrs old this year.
It has a LOP of 12 5/8 and has a 20 in. barrel.
Fits her slight frame perfect!
AMRA

If you really want to impress her look at Savage lady hunter

http://www.watershedpost.com/2015/early-season-leads-record-bear-hunt-southern-new-york

Savage Model 11 Lightweight hunter in 6.5 Creedmore.