The various threads on over or underrated cartridges got me to thinking about how people choose their various cartridge choices. I have come to think of cartridge suitability in terms of the game availability. I view game pretty much in four categories

Under 5 ilbs.

5 lbs- 150 lbs

150- 750 lbs.

Over 750 lbs

Using this criteria its pretty easy to see that most any of the medium capacity cartridges available will cover the two middle categories quite well it's only when approaching the hairy edge of the categories that fodder for 90% of the cartridge suitability discussion is generated. This also shows how most North American hunters can easily get by with two or three rifle in their battery.

270 for under 5 pounds unless using premium bullets, then 5 to 150 pounds.

Of course I'm still using 250 grain Noslers in a 338 for elk.

bangeye,
another influence on selecting a cartridge is the expected distance you plan on taking said game.
You might get by with a lighter cartridge at shorter ranges on larger game but that same cartridge is nearly a guaranteed loser at much longer ranges.
ie a 22-250 on a Texas hill country whitetail at 250 yards may work just fine. Take it out to a 700 yard shot and you should probably choose another cartridge.

Mmm.....gotta be careful here as i want to try make sense which isn't always easy for me....

For me and for quite a long time now I started with the bullet,decided what cartridge gave the desired velocity level,and then backed into the cartridge, always with an eye for compatibility to the animal and where/how hunted, rifle design for recoil tolerance,portability and all round user satisfaction.

In other words I had favorite cartridges but they were a secondary consideration as part of a delivery system for the bullets.

I am older school so first priority based on how I learned shooting animals, was "penetration first and expansion second";shots past 500-600 yards were never in play, so I leaned toward tougher bullets that I know would dandle shorter distance penetration as well as expand adequately ( yet still penetrate)as distance increased.

I liked velocities in the 2800-3200 fps range,depending on bullet weight.I learned to estimate ranges without an LRF and using rangetime varmint shooting reticles of known values,and dry aiming at lots of animals, and these velocities helped in the field to mitigate errors in range estimation. Like it or not that's what we had.

Velocities under 2800 or so did not do me much good and much over 3200 had drawbacks too.

For anything up to elk/moose size (including deer where ever they were found continent wide and no matter how big) liked the 270,30/06, 280, 7x57,7/08,7 Rem mag,the 300 magnums,even if i did use smaller cartridges like the 257, 26/06 etc.

I liked the 7mm mags and 300's particularly for elk sized stuff. From there if more was needed I jumped clear to the 375 H&H.

I noted years back the 300's and 338's started staying home more and eventually the only rifles that went hunting were the 270 or 7 mags loaded with bullets like Nosler partitions and Bitterroot Bonded cores driven from cartridges like a 270 or 7mm magnum. or 30/06. I dote on these bullets because I have had nothing but superb results, never a failure, in anything up to brown bear in size.they are my "money" bullets.

I am inordinately fond of the 7mm Mashburn Super today,and the 270 is an old standby when i just need to kill animals but am just as happy with a a 280 or 7 Rem mag.

So...today...for me.... 7mm Mashburn loaded with 162 Amax, 160 NPT or 160 Bitterroot is just too good by my standards and reliable to 600 yards if needed. That, a 270, a 30/06 along with a 375 H&H covers anything I want to do when combined the right bullet. Life is not long enough to try them all. There are no animals I know of that I would hesitate to tackle with these cartridges.

fast twist 22-250 and right bullets would be bad medicien at 700. Never ran mine quite that far, but just over 600. Worked just fine. Of course I"ve shot deer almost that far with a 223 and the right bullet.

Doesn't really take much if you pick the right bullet and the right shot.

The only reason I ever bought bigger rounds was to be able to make tougher angled shots if I felt the need. Or for overall larger carnivore/herbivore protection.

I choose bullet diameter and weight first, because its the hole in the animal that kills it, so work out how wide and deep the hole needs to be.

Then work out how far away the game is likely to be, and decide how much case capacity is needed to deliver enough energy at that range to do the work of penetrating and expanding.

There always seems at least a dozen choices within those parameters.

For a general purpose hunting rifle my thoughts look like this.
A 150 grain bullet at 3000 fps. This gives 3000 ft lbs of energy.
With today's bullets that combination covers even more situations than when I first started critically thinking about hunting rifles over 40 years ago.
It is a good mix of velocity, trajectory, energy, recoil, rifle weight, rifle length, and so on.
Diameter .277-.308.

There are very few situations where some thing else is really warranted.

I have used such a combination on many animals from 40 to 1500 pounds. Hit in the center of the heart lung area and the results are uniform...critter within 30 yards or so. Hit outside and they all can go a long ways. The heart and lungs of the largest weigh maybe 20-25 pounds.

Bobnob -

That's a good synopsis of BoninNH post <G>

I 'used to' approach rifle/cart. selection somewhat similar to the OP's question. Varmint rigs, Deer-medium game, & Big game. Next the appearance of the cartridge eg. 300 WM ( I liked the looks of the round long before I owned 1).

Having hung around the 'fire a few yrs and it 'seems' that a lot smaller cartridges are 'great' Elk & Moose medicine--using premium bullets. Having rifles from 8 RM down to 22 RFM, I will not hunt anything needing a bigger cartridge.

So---now I simply get what I like/want/ or want to Xperiment. Even the 30-06 is plenty Brown Bear medicine. The dividing line only needs to be between varmints / big game. (For N America)

Jerry

Jerry I would be quite flattered if my thinking were compared to that of Bob in NH's!

😀

Bobnob: Flattered but unworthy....

Pay much attention to RinB. Worlds of experience there.

If I drive south or east of my house to go hunting I take either my .243 or .260. If I drive west I take my .300win. otherwise I rate cartridges by local available components!!!!!

6.5X55 for all of it

Except for a ten year lever action period I've largely stuck with the .270, .280, and .30-06.

If I can't buy ammo at Wal-Mart, Dicks and every hole in the wall hardware and general store that sells it, I don't want a rifle chambered for it. I don't always have the time or desire to handload and I don't want to have to search all over hells half acre for ammo when I want to go hunting.

bob -

I found a lot of similarity between his & your posts.

Maybe I jumped to a conclusion. Don't think so.

I appreciate BOTH of you guys.


Jerry

I don't mean to be critical....

but somehow I'm not surprised.


Jerry


ps: I don't own nor will I own a hunting rifle and buy factory ammo to hunt.

I've killed an awful lot of deer and other game with factory ammo. I have a very complete reloading bench with a turret press, a single stage and a Mec 600 all set up with dies for every cartridge I own. I work on/build guns all week for a living. It ain't "fun" for me to putz around with guns/ammo anymore on my days off. Most of my rifles will shoot sub MOA with one or more factory loads and I have no need for more. I did shoot three woodchucks last Saturday with my .223 and handloads consisting of a 53 grain Hornady V-Max over 26.5 grains of H 4895. I shot another 3 the same day with my .30-30 and 170 grain Federal factory loads. The .30-30'd ones were every bit as dead.

bangeye,

Townsend Whelen wrote, "The .30-06 is never a mistake."

He was writing about North American big game, because he never hunted big game anywhere else. Bullet construction wasn't nearly as advanced in his day as it is now, but even then the .30-06 worked with bullet weights from 150 to 220 grains.

Today we can standardize bullet weight down to RinB's 150 grains and the .30-06 will work fine on any of the big game most of us will ever hunt. We also have endless variations on either side of the .30-06 theme, but the same could be said of spitzer bullets of approximately the same weight in any other cartridge, regardless of bullet diameter. Some would have advantages in trajectory and wind drift, and some in bullet diameter, but a bullet of around 150 grains will do the job. I've seen it happen over and over again, on a wide variety of big game around the world.

Blackheart -

Now I understand much better, thnx. I understand about "not fun" too.

In that situation I might very well be/feel the VERY same.

Man, whatever floats your boat.


Jerry

Rin B

I like your bracket ! ! 277-308, yup that'll geterdone. Grin

Jerry

one thing i remember many years ago on a visit to wolf publishing's office in prescott was the answer to a question i had. Being a banker and newly married, i only had money for one rifle what should i buy. The uniform answer from the writers there at the time was to buy a remington 30.06 bdl in left hand.
i did. I went on to acquire a lot of other rifles, but that bdl would have served for everything. They told me it wasn't the best for most things, but would handle just about everything given the bullet availability from light to heavy. They were right i think.

Not having the first hand experience, I largely was influenced by the "30-06 is never wrong" mentality. I now use the performance level of the -06 as a guide knowing anything in N/A can be killed with -06 performance levels. More is, well, more, for no reason in my estimation. Less may be fine for certain situations, but not ideal, in my mind, for a one rifle to do all. For whatever reason, the 338 Fed appealed to me. It's different. It closely mirrors the -06 performance, although in a short action and with a fatter bullet. That has goods and bads. The bad is reduced long range performance. I've concluded that any meaningful performance loss is well beyond the ranges I ever intend to shoot anything. The fatter bullet doesn't make smaller holes and so far I've been quite pleased. I can go with a 160 at 3000+ or a 200 in the 2600s depending on what feels 'right' for a given hunt. When hunting, it feels just right.

These days, I choose interesting rifles chambered for rounds I already have brass, bullets and dies for or can get cheaply. Can't see where cartridge choice makes much difference, certainly not for the stuff I hunt. My Hornet would be an exception now, but when I bought it, good Winny brass was about $20 a bag.

Time was when most folks had one rifle and used it for just about everything. Now, with premium bullets that stretch capabilities a bit, and Trail Boss that makes it simple to crank out practice and small game loads, that concept still makes a lot of sense.

'Course a fellar needs a few spares.

I look for a balance of flat shooting, hard hitting, and tolerable recoil. For each hunter this will likely be different.

For me the 270 Winchester fits this balance better than any other cartridge. While it is true the 280 or the 30/06 would also fall into this category if loaded with a 150 gr bullet at around 3000 fps I still choose the 270 because on average it has better BC and SD than its counterparts.:)

I also look for nastalgia rifles. To stay with the theme of nastalgia I use a slightly heavy for caliber Cup and Core bullet in a cartridge that pushes sane velocities where cup and core bullets work well. For me the ultimate nastalgia cartridge is the 7X57.

I've recently acquired a 6.5X55 Swede with an 8 twist and I'm thinking this rifle may end up being used as longer range open country deer and antilope rifle.




Shod

I prefer to use what has worked for others instead of analyzing stuff to death.

30-06 for practically everything through elk and moose or, since I hand load, I prefer a .300 magnum.

.223 for Eastern varmints because a 30-06 makes too much noise. .223 components are, of course, more available than other varmint calibers.

.270 for longer range deer and pronghorn. A .270 130 grain bullet has the same BC as a 190 grain .308 but far less recoil.

.375 for dangerous game--brown bears in Alaska or African stuff. Such a hunt costs $15,000+ so why not buy an optimum rifle for it? And your PH or guide won't let you shoot at long range.

Many other cartridges will do basically the same jobs as these with only slight differences in performance.

I just grab whatever hasn't been out to "play" in a while - as long as it's suitable for the "game" at hand.
When not out to "play", the 204 or 243 get the nod - 204 mostly, 243 during big game seasons, or if I've seen a lot of cat or bear sign. (I don't need to get clawed or chewed)

We males are an analytical bunch that like to quantify and qualify everything into tidy categories (ie, "ratings") that fit our linear thinking.

But, of course, life (and by extension death) doesn't generally work that way. The more open-minded experience one has, the more one knows this is fact (note "open minded", ie. experience is often wasted on those half asleep with inflexible prejudice).

Put a good bullet in the boiler room and death is the result. Decent velocity coupled with a controlled expansion bullet does marvelous things.

So, having said that, there's nothing I'd not hunt in NA with a 270 and 150 Partition... except a rabbit I wanted to eat. Even then, a head shot would work. I have no desire to hunt Africa, but if I did I can't imagine a 270 and 375 H&H wouldn't cover all the bases.

Of course there are dozens of other variations on the brass cylinder that would do the work of the 270/150 NP. I could be equally happy with a 308 Win and a 165 too... after all, cartridges are more alike than different.

I rate cartridges as less important than the rifle they're housed in. Within reason, of course.

Brad,

In the early 1990's Eileen was using an Ultra Light Arms .270 for all her big game hunting (this was a decade before ULA became NULA), with one load, the 130 Partition at about 3100. She'd always wanted to take two antelope out of one herd, and back then we were hunting some BLM land near Ft. Peck Reservoir I'd been hunting since around 1980.

We found a herd maybe 3/4 of a mile away, and eventually stalked within 350 yards. There wasn't a mature buck, so she dropped the biggest doe. The rest of the herd, confused because their leader was lying down, bolted a little, but after calming down moseyed our way, disappearing into a draw, appearing again at less than 100 yards. Eileen shot another doe, and at the report a nearby cottontail jumped up, then stopped under a sagebrush. At that point Eileen was definitely in her meat-hunting mode, and shot it in the head.

Maybe a 150 Partition at 2900 would have saved the bunny's "front quarters," though I doubt it. But the hindquarters and backstraps ate fine.

Great story John. That Eileen of yours is some fine woman. I'll bet she doesn't do a lot of hand-wringing about cartridges... likely the result of a lack of testosterone!

Yes indeed the 270 works, rabbits to elk. It's hard to imagine a finer round for Montana IMO.

Would've been less damage to the cottontail if she used a .460 Wby.

If you're shooting at deer at 700 yards, you should be in another sport... like shuffleboard..

I rate/choose my cartridges "With great prejudice."

If I see a rifle with a nice stick of wood,and I can afford it,I buy it regardless of caliber.Rifles and cartridges have always been bought in phases.The 22 LR phase,the lever action phase(Still going on)the short action phase,the magnum phase.Been through all of them including the latest cartridge out phase.Some times two ,three phases can be going on at one time.Sometimes it confuses me??

I've been through a few phases myself. The lever action phase and the hunting revolver phase lasted awhile. The magnum phase was short and although I had 5 different chamberings I never took a magnum afield.

bangeye, I do it a little different. Get rifle/caliber proper for the biggest most dangerous game I will ever hunt, and use it for everything. I do, however, occasionally use a .223Rem. for prairie dogs. memtb

I want one to pick up where the other leaves off in the ass department.

223,260,7RM

30-06 for all

For centerfires, here are my categories.

Varmint rifle: .222rem to .243 Rem class.

General purpose hunting rifle. 6.5 Sweed to 30.06 class. This is your "old reliable", bolt action rifle with mid power optics suitable for antelope to elk at normal hunting ranges.

Thumper. .32+ Magnum for elk, moose, bear etc. .338 Win Mag is the quintessential cartridge in this range.

Long Range: 7mm STW, Ultra Mag etc., high powder optics with dials.

Brush gun. Lever action with iron sights.

Me - Its always been the rifle that caught my eye!
Not the cartridge.

As far as cartridges, my picks have simply been "time tested"!

Matter of fact, The "newest" cartridge I ever owned in a rifle was introduced in 1956.

I think you are all wrong. I can kill all of those animals with my Ruger 10-22 using yellow jackets.....

What's the problem with that? Does this make you feel superior in some way?

A lot of truth right there.

I covered pretty much all my hunting needs with a with a couple of rifles chambered for versatile cartridges with complementary capabilities that are easy to find ammo for and easy to reload; .30-06 and .243. One of these two will go every hunt that requires a centerfire even if as a back-up.

With my "needs" covered, every other cartridge I buy or load, 7.62x39, .30-30, .300 Savage, .303 British, is incidental to a rifle I like.

Expat

There's a lot of "wrong" cartridges in the right rig that I'd have a hard time passing on. And the right deal can throw the ballistical skullphuck out the window.

Huh?

In other words, if somebody wants to spout off about how much of a POS a 25-06 is and decided to throw it away for cheap 'cause it ain't "cool", I'm on it like flies on schit.....

The older I get the more I dislike recoil.

I'm a much better shot with a lighter-recoiling cartridge. It's placement more than anything else, anyway.

So I'm a 7mm-08 shooter, with handloaded 140 gr Partitions.

Bulls, antelope, and bucks so far.




P

OK - Got ya now.

Matter-of-fact, I got an old ain't cool Enfield bout that same way!

How much weight retention?

Curious as to how things like this go... I wrote an article for my blog on the subject of caliber/rifle selection that will be going up today some time. More on the tactical side of things, but it applies to hunting rifles equally, I think.

Most of us select rifles and/or calibers for emotional rather than practical reasons. We want "that rifle" in "that caliber" because we saw it in a gun store, or a friend had one at the range, or somebody shot a moose or prairie dog with one on a TV hunting show, and it stirred something in our imagination to the point where we began to think we actually NEED that rifle/caliber.

I think of Mule Deer's story, mentioned on here a few weeks ago, and the story in his book that it came from... his Inuit guide had 2 rifles, a 30-30, and a "22 Mag-a-num". Practicality led David to use his "mag-a-num" for almost everything, including polar bear. Most of us modern American riflemen aren't that simply practical.

I'm as guilty of this as the next guy. That's why I have a safe full of rifles, and why I buy and sell rifles as often as I do.

My first rifle was a sporterized .303 Enfield. This was the "standard" rifle most guys started out with in Alberta back in my young day. I knew a number of men who had never owned anything but a .303, and had killed everything and anything with their .303, and didn't see any need for anything other than a .303. Buy a box of 20 Imperial 175 gr cartridges every couple of years and you're GTG. Lots of freezers in Alberta stayed full with that combination.

I'm sure you could say the same thing about .30-06 mil-surp/sporterized rifles here in the lower 48.

I finally "graduated" to a .308, because at that time I couldn't get varmint bullets in .311" diameter for varmint loads, but there were plenty of varmint bullets in .30 caliber. So for a while, I shot everything from moose to coyotes to p-dogs with my .308.

Now I have all kinds of rifles and bullets and reloading equipment and so forth, but I don't need any of them. I'd be just fine with one .308 and call it good. Anything I buy/shoot/load for these days is because I want it, not because I need it.

A good share of the time it's by impulse.

I've done a lot of the impulse thing. My Grandpa, my dad, and my uncles all used only .30-06's and they proclaimed it to be the end all, be all. When I was 13 my dad put a .30-06 and 180 round nose 'brush busters' in my hands. It wasn't long before I had my own job and started searching for 'my cartridge'.

For some yes, that's true. We all go through that stage, dumb as it is.

What i have done lately is carefully examine the cartridges that are most popular on the CF.....and then get something else.

Bob,
I will join you in that.
I really don't get the desire to get something "different" because of the "cool factor".
Actually there isnt much difference in many cartridges.