Mule Deer
Please tell me you are on a list to review this rifle, or Eileen anyway. I have talked to Kilimanjaro about an Artemis for my daughter, but it's just too much money and I don't really care for the savage lady hunter. This Camilla however has my interest.

I'm not crazy about the 20 inch barrel. I don't know why women and kids get stuck with such short barrels that produce more muzzle blast. I'd rather have a 22in barrel and a stock that fits, slightly muzzle heavy in a nice weight package.

My daughter currently shoots a 257 Roberts quite well, but wants something bigger. This Camilla in 308 might be just the ticket. I'm thinking it would make a great graduation present for her.

I wonder if they will sell just the stock?

Or if Eileen has handled one and how the stock design compares to the Artemis. I don' expect to find one local for my daughter to handle even though that doesn't tell as much as actual trigger time. I may order one in 308 to see if she likes it.

I would also be interested in any perspectives as my daughter is thinking about buying one in .243.

Thanks GRF

I'm not on any list, as far as I know, but will request one and see what's up.

I also don't know why "women and kid's" rifles almost always have short, light barrels!

Well, I guess I've already proven I'm in the minority when it comes to gun things. Maybe I'm just sensitive, but the muzzle blast of an 18inch barrel of most youth and women guns takes most of the enjoyment out of shooting it. The difference in weight and handling between a 20 and 22 inch barrel are barely noticeable, but to me seem to have quite a bit difference in muzzle blast. I guess most people don’t shoot often so it’s not an issue. Again, maybe I’m just too sensitive.

My daughter would shoot every day if I would take her. She has no problem shooting a rifle with a 22 inch barrel. Her gun used to be a youth model 7 in 7mm08 with 18in barrel. The muzzle blast was considerably more than a 22in barrel 7mm08 to everyone who shot them side by side. So much so most people didn’t want to shoot the youth gun that much.

Yeah, I know they make shorter, lighter stuff for kids and women because they are smaller and I guess weaker, so I should just be happy they cater to them at all. My limited thinking/experience has always thought less muzzle blast was more conducive to better shooting among women and children. Besides, it gives me the opportunity to send my smith some more work.

That's one goofy looking stock. I hope it is function over form!

The Mark V has a 24 inch barrel. The Vanguard has a 20 inch barrel. This seems to be the only stock available specifically for women.

I cannot appreciate short barrels. My Rem 700 in 308 has a 22” barrel. I purchased a Sako 85 Black Synthetic 308 last year realizing it was actually a SS Finnlight cerakoted with a 22” barrel & I stumbled upon a Rem 700 in 308 with a 24” barrel. I also have 23” Kimber in 308 which I plan to make ready for my grand-daughter.

The problem with most stocks are they really don't fit most women. The Camilla stock has more drop, higher comb, and toe out or forward cant on the butt. I can't find one in the stores around my area though.

We ran across one at a local store, and it fit Eileen very well. In fact the stock dimensions are very similar to the custom-fit walnut stock on her Serengeti Rifles .308.

Was it the Vanguard? If so how did the wood look? I am leaning towards that vs the $3000 list price for the Mark V.

I just talked to Weatherby - the Camilla stock by itself is available for $545.

That means you can get a Vanguard barreled action or simply buy a Vanguard with the caliber and barrel length you want, toss the stock and put on the Camilla.

Or, I suppose, get a Howa - likely for less - and do the same thing!

Howa barreled actions are available at Brownells for a little more than $400.

Or you can go to Gunbroker, which has an auction (748304757) for a Howa .308 barreled action, currently at $256.

Or GunsAmerica, which has a new Howa 1500 Gameking scope package for $429...part out the scope and stock, and you've got it for cheap!

CWT,

It was a Vanguard, and the wood was basically average, though pretty nicely fitted and finished, per usual with Weatherby.

Thanks so much for your response. I think I'll try one for the young lady. Just would like a 22' barrel. It seems factory rifles I like these days always have a thing or three I don't like. I don't remember that being a problem back in the day.

‘ = ft
“ = inches

Oh. I didn't know. Thanks for that.

If you never shouldered a Weatherby style stock you are missing a fine fit....They may look different but that's 'cause they work and I'm sure this ladies is well thought out...I picked up an Ultra Light in /06 to try it and now I own one...Very accurate too.

I'm sure the Camilla is a nice rifle, but, could they have assigned it a worse moniker?
Will it eventually come to be known in common parlance as the Chlamydia?
Or perhaps the "Duchess of Cornhole" ?

I believe it is named after Roy Weatherby's wife, Camilla Weatherby.

CWT,

And you're correct.

Girls are not a "one size fits all" situation.
Generally, they have much smaller hands. So, Kimber 84s and Camillas are on the right track.
Often overall females are more slender, they have a longish neck and generally a less wide face. Think more drop.
Offset is a great help especially on shotguns.
What is often WRONG WRONG WRONG is a short length of pull.
Females have longish limbs compared (generally) to males. (My 5'2" resident female can shoot her 14" LOP M-42 with great ease.)
Carbine Winchesters fit well too, but Marlins ...with a few exceptions have too much lumber in the grip and fore end.
As to barrel length, if the stock fit is correct, a long slim barrel is great.
Two versions of the WBY rifles are available MKV and Vanguard.

The Weatherby MKV is in need of a MD quality review...

Or review the Vanguard since it is about $2000 dollars cheaper. And the Vanguard has a 1 in 10 twist for the .308 the Mark V is 1 in 12.

Uncas,

Women normally also have more sloping shoulders than men, another reason for more drop in the buttstock, and a Monte Carlo comb.

While women's arms and legs do tend to be longer than men's for their height, the difference isn't as pronounced as neck length or shoulder slope. LOP also depends on shoulder width. My resident female is 5'8" tall and has trouble buying shirts with longer enough arms, but her shoulders aren't overly wide, so she feel most comfortable with the standard 13.5" LOP used by most factories. She can shoot a little longer LOP if necessary, but it's not a favorite option.

When Tristar was going to offer a woman's shotgun several years ago, they used the average dimensions from hundreds of women's shotgun stocks ordered through a major company. A prototype fit Eileen very well, and in fact she tried to buy the gun. They promised to sell her a production model, but somehow the project got canned a few months later.

Any factory long gun designed specifically for women is by necessity a compromise, since factories can't offer custom-fit to every woman. Most Americans prefer to buy a rifle or shotgun with a LOP a little too short rather than too long, the opposite of the common European practice of long LOP's on factory rifles, so shooters want 'em shorter can cut some off.

I just shut up and do as I am told.

My daughter is very fond of her Camilla Vanguard in .243. It's accurate and fits her really well.

I still can't find a Camilla in North Carolina. Mark V or Vanguard. I sure hate to order one sight unseen. If any of you all from NC, VA, or even SC know where one is let me know. Thanks.

What is it about the Savage Lady Hunter you don't like? Assuming it's just barrel length and weight, you can buy lady hunter stocks (short action) from Numerich for less than $100 shipped, right at $87 with promo. You could always get a Savage package rifle you like and drop it in the new stock after you open up the barrel channel.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1476650

For clarity, I ordered one of those stocks for my daughter. It was a nice piece, but no where near the picture they show in the site as far as grain is concerned. Either way, it's nice with a decelerator already installed, esp at that price.

Hi Tarheel,

I don't own a savage but have always liked them and the ones I have shot were surprisingly accurate. The 20 inch barrel is not a deal killer as that is certainly adequate for anything my daughter will ever do. The Vanguard has a 20" barrel too. Just from the pictures the savage appears it would fit a woman better than most stocks but still lacks the drop of the Weatherby. The list price of the Lady hunter and the Vanguard are about the same. I also have not been able to find the Savage in stores either. Thanks for the info. It is certainly an option.

Well OK then, that makes it a good idea.

New to the forums (so hello!) but need to comment.

As Mule Deer has described rifle fit challenges, I have a long neck, sloping shoulders, small hands, small head and I'm 5'4". I adore my Camilla. It fits me perfectly and it is balanced just right to carry in the field with smaller hands. The comb puts my head in the right line for the scope without making weird adjustments and brings scopes back to the necessary eye relief.

It is extremely accurate with Barnes Vortex. As a new big game hunter, my one shot deer was the only one who thought a 20” barrel was a problem. And muzzle blast? Not only is it not noticeable but it’s not like anyone is taking a hundred plus shots a day shooting squirrels.

Welcome to the campfire.

Thanks for the welcome. Now let's get back to the supposed muzzle blast from a Camilla in the calibers it's chambered for.

What cartridge is your Camilla chambered for?

uppity...

6.5 Creedmore. Since this was my first foray into big game, I wanted something that could be used for white tail up to a cow elk. I also wanted something with lots of off the shelf ammunition options including lead-free.

Well, when a woman has to drag the conversation back on topic . . . .

SGirl showing some good judgement here, and some useful first hand info. Welcome to the 'Fahr !

Thank you! Got out the s'mores.

Thanks for your input,was thinking about a Camilla for my daughter. Right now,she shoots a Remington M700 BDL in 270 with reduced recoil Hornady Ammo.

I'm afraid to step her up to full power loads in a gun that doesn't fit her well. She is 5'8" and can shoot guns built for men,but has to struggle to get her eye behind the scope.

The pistol grip on the Camilla is really well designed for small hands. Nothing else I've tried has come even close.

Did you look at the Savage Lady Hunter also?

I am currently working with a WBY 6.5 Creedmoor in a Range Certified Vanguard with a 24" barrel.

The all day shoot, clean, repeat barrel seasoning went well. I bought three boxes of Federal American Eagle ammo (really just to fire form brass). The last 20 rounds fired including clean and dirty barrel conditioning was a 1.25" group with only a few outside the (shot away... missing) center of the target.

Since then I have tried hand loads with Varget, H4350, H414 Superformance and yesterday IMR 7828. Only the 7828 produced groups over an inch. Bullets tried are 129 ABLR, 127 LRX and 140 Nosler Ballistic tips. My gun shot best with 4350/LRX, but not by much...a 5/8"' five shot group.

My rifle has a nice habit of shooting the first two shots from a clean dry bore into a touching or oval single hole on the target.

What off the shelf ammo have you tried?

What were the results?

Exactly my goal with the Camilla. I tried a couple of my 6'2" husband's rifles in larger calibers (than my squirrel rifle) but they didn't fit well and I was starting to flinch. Plus, I've always struggled with eye relief on more standardized stocks so I end up "crawling up and over" the stock if that makes sense. Now that I know what good rifle fit is, I'm ordering custom cheek pads for my other rifles.

SquirrelGirl what scope do you have on your Camilla and what base/rings are you running? Welcome aboard! I have 3 daughters so I have run the gamut on trying to cobble guns to fit them.

Due to various problems the rifle arrived less than a week before heading out for the hunt. Therefore, I used Hornady Amer Whitetail with 129 grn Interlock for break-in and then immediately switched to Barnes Vor-tex as the landowner had requested I use lead-free. The Barnes produced initial groups under an inch and I'm an inexperienced bench shooter. That's as much as I can tell you for now. I have several boxes of additional factory loads to test in warmer weather.

I have Leopold VX-3i 2.5-8x36mm and I'm using Weatherby rings (made by Talley). I don't remember the height except that I followed the recommendations given by Weatherby.

I bought the rifle sight unseen but have no regrets.

Just as you are relating, I had to order sight unseen. All I could do was scour the internet for reviews and pictures. The Camilla appealed more to me aesthetically plus I could find more information about it including others' experiences. Okay, and I grew up not far away, and the history. "Camilla" brings a touch of history where "Lady Hunter" makes me look to see where they added pink. Seriously, would anyone label a rifle "The Male Hunter"? How's that for good rationale? I've spent my entire life making do with products designed for men, and literally have stood in a fly shop waving my credit card commenting that it works as well as the guys. Because products that fit women are rarely stocked in stores, I have to take financial risks and order anyway with sometimes poor results that I re-sell when I can. The Camilla has been a raving success story.

I love the comment from Mike Schwiebert to other men criticizing the barrel length that "It was designed by women and if you think I'm gonna tell them they got it wrong you all are crazy!!!!!" Only this month did I read Mule Deer's article on rifle fit using Roy Weatherby as an example. He spoke my language.

http://weatherbynation.com/index.php?topic=14918.msg142132#msg142132

Thanks SG for chiming in on this. Like you my daughter has " made do " with what I had or what was readily available for a number of years. She'll be 21 this year. Shot her first deer at age nine and by age 13 was hunting by her self in her own climbing tree stand. I just want to get her something that she can truly enjoy and be proud of for years to come. My dad gave me a Remington 700 30-06 in 1975 when I was 13 years old. I still have it and it is special when I pick it up to take to the woods.

I would think using the lowest possible ring/base height is the way to go here. I would love them to come out with a Long Action model. A .270 would be awesome!!! I think for now a 7mm-08 is the best compromise.

Just found the order. The rings are Weatherby's Vanguard Lightweight Scope Mounts in 1" low.

Aw, you're a good and thoughtful dad. I feel the same way about some gifts from my father.

I love beautiful functional tools. I can't imagine using a laminate stock though never say never, right? When I decided to try hunting my husband bought me an 1885 Winchester Low Wall in .17 Mach 2 for squirrels. It doesn't fit me properly but off sticks with extended scope rings it works because, damn, it's gorgeous. He sure set the wrong benchmark now that I'm buying my own rifles. The Camilla doesn't match up but it's still very, very nice. I think she'll treasure it.

Weatherby Camilla? With a name like that, I had to look it up. I can see why they gave it the name.

They are both ugly humps, and the prospective owner would have been best served with taking better care of what he had previously, so he wouldn't need a new one.

I think you need to work on your research skills. We've covered this already.

http://wby-tv.com/videos/i-am-camilla/

Squirrelgirl Welcome to the fire. I wonder about the handle until I read your comment about the Win. 1885 and then it became clear. Enjoy your stay and don't let the dips ruffle your feathers. Happy hunting. Cheers NC

Thank you very much! I mostly came to the forums looking for air rifle info but thought I could contribute my personal experience with the Camilla.

Are you affiliated with Weatherby in any way, shape or form?

" I've spent my entire life making do with products designed for men, and literally have stood in a fly shop waving my credit card commenting that it works as well as the guys. Because products that fit women are rarely stocked in stores, I have to take financial risks and order anyway with sometimes poor results that I re-sell when I can. "
^^^^^^^^^^^
This, more than anything, should tell manufacturers and retailers that just stocking a 'reduced length' long gun is NOT the way to go. Folks, getting more women and kids involved in shooting sports and hunting will guarantee the future for us all. I, for one, applaud Weatherby for doing their due diligence in the creation of a rifle for women.
SquirrelGirl is proof of the pudding.

And welcome, welcome, welcome to the 'fire, SquirrelGirl.

Thanks for the welcome and the recognition of the challenges for women in this sport. This past winter I told a hunting pack manufacturer that "adding teal trim did not make a women's pack" and that they obviously hadn't done any research with women. They actually responded that I had a good point and would address it.

Currently, I'm banging my head against the wall trying to find good insulated hunting boots. My husband can walk into a store and try on several options. I have to order and then pay return shipping on those that don't work out. Don't even get me started on clothing. Fortunately, the companies are starting to make the products. The retailers just won't stock for the fastest growing demographic in hunting.

Oh my gawd, you caught me. They sent me a free hat in one order.

SquirrelGirl,

My wife Eileen Clarke has been beating her head against this for a LONG time. In fact she once dropped the F-bomb in the booth of a well-known manufacturer's booth at the annual Shooting, Hunting and Outdoor Trade (SHOT), when a booth guy about half a foot shorter and wider than she is, claimed she could shoot the same shotguns he did.

She's also come very close to that point in many sporting goods stores, when clerks told her the right socks would make a pair of men's boots fit just as well. Women (again on average) have higher arches and narrower heels than men, and Eileen used custom-made boots for years, until Kenetrek started making boots specifically designed for women's feet about a decade ago. Luckily, their headquarters are near us in Bozeman, Montana, where she could try 'em on. But they solved the problem of a good, well-fitting insulated boot.

Well, I knew I liked her from all the things my husband has said about conversations with the two of you but also from my own reading. I've let the F-bomb fly several times with fly fishing manufacturers including in a focus group. Unfortunately, most women's boots are very narrow even in the forefoot. German-designed boots like Lowa still use a combination last but don't get me started on their wacko marketing team so getting a hold of a pair requires handing over a first born child, which I don't have. It's even been hard to get Schnee's to cough up some fit descriptions.

Depending on what your needs are Irish Setter might be an option. They have women's specific boots. You go into the Irish setter store and stand on this electronic foot device and it shows exactly what size would fit your foot. If they have to order it and the fit is not to your liking you don't have to pay. My wife and I upland hunt, hike in the mountains of NC and we have found the Irish Setters fit our needs at $250 or less. Our deer hunting is somewhat different so I usually wear Muck Boots for that although I also wear them woodcock hunting where I might walk 8-10 miles.

Thanks. Irish Setters I can find but they don't fit that combination last foot.

Lowa is supposedly redesigning the Tibet Superwarm but it won't be available until fall because they don't want women to have sufficient break-in time before the snow flies (yes, that was snark). Crispi said they're restocking the Gran Paradiso this month which means they have 13 hours left. I'm in Montana multiple times a year so I'll probably go to Schnee's just because. Shedhorn Sports in Ennis is the one and only retailer I know that makes an effort of stocking a good variety of women's products.

Sheesh, I have spent hours doing research. Meanwhile, my husband walks into one store . . . .

Wrong Camilla ..

A truly ignorant joke in the case of the rifle's name.

The Camilla rifle was named for Roy Weatherby's wife. She stood by him while he started his rifle company in the 1940 and 50's and actually sold her inheritance-a peice of familly farmland in Kansas- to provide capital for his company. Truth be kbiwn their lropably would never have been any Weatherby, Inc without her.

How men here are married to such women?


In the case of the Camilla rifle, I cannot think of a better name.

Nice way of handling a truly stupid comment.


My wife is tall so we may have lucked out a bit when it turned out the Tikka T 3 in 6.5x55 fit her. I'm glad because she is left eye dominant and there is no LH Camilla to buy. She likes it so much that she has forbidden me to change anything on that rifle I put a Burris 2-7x35 which keeps things lightweight.

For boots we found that Merrel's fit her very well so we also bought a second pair of insulated boots which fit just as well. She bought herself a good daypack she likes, I think it was a Browning designed for women but I would need to confirm that.

Well, rationally Lady Hunter is comparative to Gentleman Hunter (a rather classy moniker) as Male Hunter is to Female Hunter, but enough about pink. The dimensional changes to rifle stocks better addressing the needs of the female profile is way overdue. The typical straight comb but shorter pull typically used is about as wrong as wrong can be. Wife's A-Bolt Micro is about right on pull but totally wrong on height and shape of comb. Unfortunately it took me a few years to figure it out and she did not have the experience required to accurately question the problem. I'm pretty sure that's one reason she grew weary of pulling the trigger on game. Now that interest is rekindled and most likely a Camelia will be her next firearm purchase.

While we're at it there are a lot of men out here that don't fit the typical stock offered by some rifle manufacturers or the scope height commonly "known" to be best. My Mark V stock with medium rings "fits" me well while a Kimber 84 straight stock so scoped isn't easily usable. Matter of fact the straight combed Kimber or similar will never be in my gun rack.

No, that would be huntress...

I understand but having dealt with the lack of fly fishing products that fit, misogyny in the industry and, sometimes, from non-industry folks, women cringe over some marketing tactics. Look at the conversations over Wyoming considering "safety pink". FFS, I don't think this is going to get more women hunting. I was in the first wave of women to benefit from Title 9. Been there, done that.

Your comments about stock fit challenges for everyone is right on point.

Considering the huge success of the Camilla, it is unfortunate that they did not introduce a LH stock. It will be interesting to watch sales of the Mark V versions. I tried a Tikka T3 and thought I was going to tip over! If only I could grow a bit. I'm currently researching air rifles which means I'm going through the stock fit fits again.

I purchased an Alps Outdoorz Monarch X pack. I have not had an opportunity to use it but the fit and comfort appear to be on par with my multitude of women's Osprey and Gregory packs.

uppity....

shootem,

I have mentioned here and there the fact that Roy Weatherby had a long neck and sloping shoulders, which is probably why he liked Monte Carlo combs....

Wow that is a beautiful rifle. Would love to hold/shoot one to see if the stock fits. Can a man own one or will he get called a sissy?

Sportsmans Warehouse shows one in stock in Twin Falls.

My first introduction to your writing.

Sq. Girl,my wife and daughter have both used boots from LL Bean,I believe they come in women's sizes. They wear rubber boots by Hunter,and also by LaCrosse. In colder weather,they use fur lined leather Uggs.

Lacrosse are the only ones that only come in men's sizes. My daughter hunts a lot in roper style cowgirl boots too.

U betcha....

Another vote for LL Bean..

Thank you! You guys are being so awesome with your suggestions. Have they used any of the Sitka or First Lite clothing?

My boot challenge is an insulated boot (think Kennetrek Mnt Extreme 400g) that I can wear for a 10 mile day in loose sharp rock or a foot of snow. Women have few options in that category. If the Kennetrek's Eileen Clarke likes fit, I'd grab a pair. Italian boots just don't allow my little toe to go along on the adventure. I think Lowa (a German company) will have something eventually but you never know with them.

[quote=Squirrel I've let the F-bomb fly several times with fly fishing manufacturers including in a focus group. [/quote]

SG: Glad the rifle works well for you.It appears to be well thought out and designed. As to looks of the Camilla if form follows function then they did well.

As for Fly Gear have you tried any of it that Joan Wulff designed? There are a couple of nice rods and some other items too. A friend of mine started a line of women's hunting and fishing gear called she safari and there are others too.

I wasn't aware that Joan has ever designed much, if any, apparel. Did she? Thank goodness wader and jacket selection has come along way. Boots are still lagging by a long shot. Just like hunting boots, men get the sturdy options while women get fashion with pink or teal trimmed junk. I can't find anything on she safari other than an old review and a redirect to Bass Pro. You have a current link? I'll take a look. Thx.

Other than grip size, tackle doesn't have to fit the way firearms do and cork grips can easily be turned down. It is very nice to see Joan's products stocked just like any other fly fishing product, not a women's specialty item, but I would expect that given her and Lee's history.

Here is one link. http://www.womenhunters.com/index.p...ear-reviews/583-she-safari-alyssa-haukom

Not sure about another friend Stacy's contribution she did the same but not sure where it went or if viable now. But like me options for left handers are getting better. When I first thought about a custom rifle the only options were Savage and Weatherby. Whats a girl going to do? Also like me I remember freezing my keester off when hunting because the best base layer I could get as a kid was the waffle underwear. I would wrap up in a sleeping bag and still managed to harvest a few deer.

If you really want to pursue this further than contact Sportsmens Finest (Yes Chauvinistic) and ask about contacts for Stacey Trimble.

Bass Pro bought the She Safari line.

Just a quick update for those of you chiming in on boots. Hoffman Boots in Kellogg, ID, came to our small town sportsmen's show this weekend. They just introduced their Explorer boot aimed at the hunting market. Jim, the owner, volunteered that women have few options in this category so they've included an uninsulated and a 400 gram insulated version for women. It felt very, very good for the few minutes I had to tromp around in his booth. I've now researched a bit and the boots are getting good reviews and comments that they're both quieter and more durable than Kennetrek.

I haven't followed the progress of this company but it seems to be doing well. Link: https://www.ammoland.com/2008/11/she-safari-llc-grows-to-she-outdoor-apparel/#axzz58wVPYbDx

Now SHE Outdoor Apparel.

SG glad you found a pair of boots that fit.

Dear God, what circus are you in?

































Welcome to the 'fire. In good fun, we bust each others bal...parts here sometimes.

Did you buy them?

Yes, they are due today. I'll be doing as many indoor test miles as I can and will report back. The test pair broken-in at the sports shows felt heavenly.

Will be waiting for your report SG.

Has anyone weigh a camilla actually weighed it? Wondering if weatherby weight claims are accurate. Thanks

Mine is 7 lbs 7.0 oz with a Leopold VX-3i 2.5-8x36mm scope, the low Weatherby rings, and a Leupold Alumina flip scope cover. The rifle is chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor.

Hope that helps because I'm not taking the scope off for you!

That info is perfect. Just what I was looking for. Thanks