I just read THE HUNTER'S RIFLE by Charles Askins. I found it to be an excellent read and I was really surprised at the amount of game Askins killed. But I wonder if he really believed 8mm was better than .30 cal or if that was just his shtick?

Man, what a memory exercise. The answers to come will be interesting. I just can't remember, other than he liked the 8 mm mag.

My guess is, because no one else was even looking at it, stateside, at least. No one else wanted on that bandwagon, so he jumped.
What the hell, there was plenty of room on that wagon...........

A bit eccentric, he had a number of various cases necked up or down to 8mm and wrote articles praising each, ad nauseum.
For a very sobering look at Askins, the man, read his "Unrepentant Sinner". Keep in mind that it took place in a very different world than ours.

A line from James H.L. Hunt seems fitting at this juncture:
"... I pray thee, then, write me as one that loves his fellow men..."

A very good read.

He was a good writer who knew how to capture and hold the reader's attention. He liked to throw bombs of controversy, that was his shtick, which he used with skill. He was quite controversial in life, as well.

Unrepentant Sinner is a good read, a glimpse into the man with lots of history and period info.

It was a different time, an era that pre-dated Political Correctness. Ole Charlie would have a real hard time in today's P.C. world.

DF

No he would not. He'd just tell the idiots to F-off and if they took exception he would take care of business just like the Kraut taking a dump found out.

Larry Root aka "Stool Research".

Rick must be out of town.

DF

Yeah, he is. Last time I heard from Rick he was in Florida fishing.

A local friend was a young Army officer when Askins was still alive and knew him well, even going on a safari with Askins in Angola. My friend does some writing (he's working on a book about his Vietnam experiences) but I keep after him to write the story of that safari--and others, since he was stationed in Africa for a number of years. He's planning on it--eventually.

Askins necked about everything to 8mm....then took it to Africa and knocked off all kinds of animals with it. he did a lot of hunting and killed a LOT of game...at least it seems that way from his writings.

I believe he was the first to use the newly introduced 338 Win Mag on Brown Bear in Alaska, and also had some smith convert M70's to LH for him.

He also killed a lot of Asian game like banteng, tigers, etc. rare stuff today.

Unrepentant Sinner was a great book and pulled few punches. I get the impression he didn't suffer fools;and was no stranger to the use of lethal force.

I liked Askins.

Bill Jordan lived much the same life and also killed people in the line of work. He never bragged about it. He said it was a distasteful part of his job as a Marine and a lawman.

Askins seemed to really enjoy killing,men or animals. He was also an off the chart racist. Witness the fact he only kept count of the number of whites and asians he killed. He did not include blacks and hispanics in his headcount.

I know we can't judge him by todays standards,but he seems like a homicidal nut in a uniform to me.

Yeah Brit he was pretty bad!

Unrepentent Sinner seemed to pretty much confirm that it is possible to possess neither a conscience nor a soul.

Sometimes fear is the only thing that keeps some people in line.Most of The "Wild Wests Lawmen" knew this and applied force accordingly.That would include The Earps,Frank Hammer,The Pinkertons,Bill Hickock and down the line.

On the other hand, Bob, if you were in a fox hole, pinned down by hostile fire, Ole Charlie would be a pretty good companion.

DF

DF: No doubt about it.

I agree with the fact he was pretty bad under contemporary standards of political correctness. But in his era, he was what the doctor ordered.

I'm not so sure sometimes that we have so many problems today, because we don't have more like him.

It's ironic that the existence of civilization depends in large part on the existence of the Warrior Cllass. This is irrefutable and proved by history.

We all know he wasn't PC and enjoyed killing people when the situation presented itself. However he makes a real case for .323 trumping .308 diameter in effectiveness. Did he really drink that Kool-Aid or was he just trying to sell it?

I remember seeing him at the 1970 NRA Convention in New Orleans. He was of average height and statue but definitely had a presence about him. I watched as he left the Hilton, headed from Poydras to Canal and the French Quarter, alone and after dark.

I was a bit concerned, thinking he may not know the area; I sure wouldn't take that walk alone at night.

That was before I read Unrepentant Sinner. That old dude was for sure packing and don't ya know, NOPD would be sorting, bagging and transporting perp or perps who would have acosted him.

DF

His choice of route may well have been intentional.

Hadn't considered that...😳

DF

They all like telling their stories. Askins just happened to tell them to outsiders as well.

Love his books.



Dave

Old dude??? He only would have been 63 at the time.

I had the good fortune to end up with Major Charles Askins, Sr.'s personal Browning Superposed. I hooked up with Bill Askins in San Antonio, the Col.'s son, and got a lot of Askins info over a number of years, 600+ posts, some B.S., but mostly solid, previously unpublished Askins info.

The Major was an easy going type, was the highest paid gun writer of his era, a noted shotgun authority. This gun was ordered by him, built by Browning to his specs.

The Col. was a firebrand, evidently a lot like his Irish mother. He adored his Dad, was estranged from his Mom and sister. I've posted this link before, will do so again as it adds to the Charlie Askins, Jr. legacy.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=124719

DF

At that time, to me he seemed "old"...

Now that I've pasted that mile post, not so old...

DF

Someone hinted at it, but I will spell it out. Different era. He was good at what he did. Had he lived to be 150 and continued hunting, he would have adapted to the changing times.

Changing times.

The 8mm bullet in the right hands is all you need. While there were times that bullet/caryridge s3lectipn was poor, remember the time. No copper. Next to no partitions/H mantels. Bonded whats?

We also had fewer antis, and more people that knew their way around a rifle.

Here's another good read with lots of photos.

Asian Jungle - African Bush: Colonel Charles Askins

No use for Askins and certainly none for Jordan.
Killing the enemy is one thing.
Killing a fellow officer while practicing your speed shooting is another.

Askins pulled no punches. And that's why I chuckle when people try to say Peter H. Capstick wasn't a real PH because Askins said Capstick was his PH in Botswana. With 21 safaris under his belt, Askins certainly knew a real PH from a bartender.

Ha,...looks like "stool research" has gone the way of the Dodo Bird, another Larry Root personna flushed, and gone.

Adios, MF.

GTC

The dumbing down and P.C. profiling of our military is gonna cost us. Georgie Patton, in today's Army, would have never made General. Just being one of the greatest tank commanders of all times wouldn't matter. P.C. trumps about everything. I don't see Patton suffering fools kindly, catering to transgender and openly homosexual troops.

DF

Who killed who practicing the quick draw?? I must have missed that. In any event, putting Bill Jordan in the same category as Charles Askins might be an injustice to Jordan. I don't recall much, if any, negativity about Bill Jordan, but you certainly can't say the same about Cheerless Charlie.

I had that same question, look forward to the answer.

DF

So the story goes about Jordan from another Border Patrol agent who served in the 1950's.....

? hearsay ?

More / some evidence !!

Jerry

I met a man in Salmon, Idaho a dozen years or so ago while walking down the street and we talked. He knew Elmer Keith, hunted with Keith and was a member of the Masonic Lodge with Keith. I asked if Keith actually regularly hunted with the 375 H&H, as he espoused the 375's virtues regularly in his writings. The man said that Keith never used the 375 when he was hunting with him, preferring instead to use a 30-06 with heavy bullets. His feeling was that this was just a niche topic that Keith could write about and it kept him published.

This is probably the same situation that Atkins exploited.

I don't care much for prejudice, but there was a time I was.

I've worked as a missionary in Cameroon, Africa, South America, Central America and have worked in Australia, Mexico and Canada. I've also visited several other countries. When you get to know people on a personal basis they no longer are the demons that people say.

Japs and Krauts - WWII, Gooks during Vietnam. Towel heads, camel jockies, [bleep], honkies, queers, G.. Dam Yankees, Spooks: all labels that can be dished out only to hurt people. If you hang around people that use names to belittle it's possible it may rub off.

As far as Col. Askins: there but by the grace of God there go I. We could all have been in his shoes. No condemnation from me. Just thankful.


As far as Safaries. I'd love to share that experience with close friends. I'd rather deer hunt with a friend than shoot a monster "anything" by my self.

Before premium bullets bigger was better or often was.

Sorry, but my information provider died in '97, however I've never had any reason to doubt my dad..... There is always the chance that he was referring to someone else, but the reaction I got when referring to Jordan's shooting ability leads me to believe he knew what he was talking about.

Google John A Rector, Border patrol, 1956. Maybe your will find your answer.

It's more fact than fiction.




Dave

It happened

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2384639

See post #34

That definitely settles it.

I find it hard to profile a man's life based on a tragic accident.

DF

Agreed...

Same thing happened in Texas (THP). Two fellow workers had been practicing quick draw with unloaded guns for weeks. They came out of a resturant one evening, the victim said draw, the shooter instinctively did, and missed the X ring just enough that the heart and spine were missed.

It was touch and go, but the victim lived. Boss came to town to fire the shooter, but the victim convinced the boss that he was equally to blame for the deal. Shooter said that thousands of times, he wanted the bullet back.

I later "rode the River" with the shooter. He had my back and I never feared a similar tragedy.

I was fortunate to meet and visit at length with Bill Jordan a couple of times. A guy I knew was an old pistol shooter competitor from the old days, and Bill was in town to visit him on both occasions. My opinion of him was that he was good people. Our conversations about shooting were about paper targets and game. Neither of us ever mentioned shooting people.

Bill Jordan was definitely good folk. Accidents happen unfortunately.

And, unfortunately, in today's world somebody is expected to "pay" for every accident.

In today's verbiage the incident wasn't an accident. It was negligence on the part of Mr. Jordan. There is a difference, though I wouldn't paint Bill Jordan a terrible person for it.

LMAO.

Well if you shot my dad, I'd sort of expect somebody to "pay" for that.



Dave

Way back then, if that happened in my parlor and I were not a cop; I would have done jail time and lost every penny I would later earn. That wasn't an "Accident" it was profound negligence and should have ended his career, pension and future net worth.

I met Charlie at Camp Bullis, Texas. He was testing shotguns that day; must have had 15 or so with him. I was 21 at the time and he was quite polite. Got a Christmas card from him for many years...read all his writings.

I'll guarantee you that if Charlie was around today and put in charge of the southern border.....he'd solve the problem...one way...or another!! He didn't cater to giving orders....twice!!

My older brother served with him in the Army paratroopers. He said the colonel was a psychotic sumbitch and a stone, cold killer without any compunction at all. I only met Askins once at the NRA convention. He had those cold gray eyes like sharks have with no feelings in them and they seemed to be looking right through you. It was then that I knew what my brother said about him was true.

I am like Bob in NH I liked Askins. Would have liked to have met him. He did take overy 700 head of big game..

Someine mentioned Elmer hunting with a .30-06. He did as a young man, but the .33's were his pick.

I believe that.

Things are such these days that being the "military's greatest tank commander" means little, for good reason.

fwiw,
I think that is going a bit far... The man enjoyed shooting the 8mm caliber and Mexicans. That said the Mexicans were armed and would have been all too happy to have killed him. I have zero issues with his actions. If we had fewer cameras, less oversight, and fewer pussies in positions of authority this country would not be heading for a White Minority and Latino Majority by 2050 or earlier. Chew on that and tell me how it sits with you if you are not brown...

Viewing olden times through our modern screwed up lens of political correctness and a complete failure to control one of the clearest threats to the safety of the United States, being the Cartels along the border, with their representatives, in uniform and out, is a bit like a lot of your all you can eat buffets. Just a bit more than I can hold down...

Regards, Matt.

I'm with Bob here.

Everyone takes orders while serving in our military, and the good Col didn't start out as a Col. It was and is learned behavior. It's a tough job out there and to be judged for the dirty work that needs to happen is tough work. Some folks enjoy it a little more than others but accomplishing the mission is the priority and anyone who doesn't strive for that doesn't stick around long.

I'm going to have to get THE UNREPENTANT SINNER.

That's probably pretty close, actually. Charlie reputedly did a lot more than he ever let on in print. Unrepentant Sinner just captures the "highlights".

Yup,me too.

Aware of that as well. Still stick by what I said on ALL counts...

You ever suspect that some of the young men who kill on behalf of this country might not be wrapped around the axle of self doubt and guilt? Hint.

Regards, Matt.

I already ordered me a copy.

Gonna be awhile before I do,have a safari to prepare for.

$25 on ebay.

When I was about 7 years old, my parents took my little brother and me to an all-day barbecue at Harry Jersig's Auerhahn Ranch near Bandera, Texas. Jersig was the CEO of the Lone Star Brewery and one of my Dad's biggest customers. There were apparently a lot of movers and shakers there, although most of that was lost on me. I was just under strict orders to mind my P's and Q's and stay out of people's way. The major entertainment of the day was Col. Charles Askins and a small contingent from Camp Bullis.

There were shooting demonstrations and hand to hand combat exhibitions, featuring Judo, an art form that was just making itself known--at least to me. Col. Askins was not afraid to have his guys mix it up and there were some pretty hard falls taken with the good Colonel egging them on. Having grown up (to that point) on WW II movies at the Saturday "Fun Club", along with the fact that virtually every adult that I knew had been involved in WW II, it made a big impression on me.

I managed to get a chance to shake his hand and told him that I wanted to be a soldier, too, when I grew up. I still remember him sitting down on the ground beside me and talking about what it meant to be a soldier and what I would have to do if I were going to be a good one. Sixty-six years or so later, I don't remember too many details--just the pleasure of sitting beside someone who was supposed to be a hero and having him talk to me like I was someone much more important than I was.

A real hard azz, no doubt, Col. Askins had a soft spot for certain things. Those included his Dad, his Wife and his family. He lost his older son, Chucky, who died a slow death following an auto accident while the Col. was over seas. He was close to his second son, Bill. I don't think he ever got over losing his first born, just moved on.

You probably were of similar age to those boys and no doubt that had some influence. Even in his old age, he fed squirrels in his yard, had a soft spot for small animals.

He was a complex human.

DF

Very interesting stuff!

A little off topic but Cabelas claims to have for sale his LH converted Model 70 .308 Norma

It is interesting.

I think Charlie Askins would have been a formidable apponent to about any famous/infamous gunfighter of yesteryear.

I'd put my money on Charlie. He had the temperament, mind set and skills to pull it off.

He had a few friends and a lot of enemies, a number of the latter prematurely deceased.

DF

Bill Askins ended up with a bunch of his Dad's left handed rifles that he needed to move. He is more into dressage and fancy horses than hunting, shooting or guns. Those guns were sold at auction, so there are a number of them out there, some in unusual wildcat rounds, all custom to one degree or another.

I would think that one is authentic. They should have documentation.

DF

Sweet!

Mudhen, a very cool story.. You were lucky that day..

Moose and elk, Charlies book is a great one.. Every once in a while I take it down for a reread.. I have often wondered where the got the $ for all his hunting trips..

Somewhere I have a story by the Col. about hunting polar bear with a custom .308 Norma on a converted model 70..

How did he fund his hunts...?

While working as a WWII ordinance officer in North Africa recovering battle damaged tanks, during a lull in the fighting, he took a jeep and with a buddy, hunted sheep.

While in Viet Nam, he hooked up with a Chinese outfitter, hunted big game in S.E. Asia, using elephants in the high grass.

He improvised, took advantage of whatever situation he found himself in. I'm sure as a prominant gun writer, he got support from the industry for his safari's.

DF

Dirt. those late African hunts were the ones I wondered about.. He made a trip there almost every year for many years.. I knew he made lots of hunts while in the army..
You have some great stuff on his dad.. I enjoyed the material on the Browning..

Anyone know at what age he died and what he died from ?

bc, I believe the Col. was at least 90, as for the cause of death I do not know. I have heard when he passed one of his friends told another, Hell just got fuller, Charlie passed on.

1907-1999, but he died at age 91, short of his 1999 birthday.

Just ordered my copy of "Unrepentant Sinner."

Cool!

Yup,now come the waiting.

Do you know the cause of death?

elk, hope you enjoy it.. Sure was a different time.. I would like more on his pal Parker.

I read some of his stories when he wrote in the NRA's publication "American Hunter." Always enjoyed them.

It seems he may have developed Alzheimers, not sure the exact cause of death, possibly related as that's the usual course of that disease. There was a story about him being AWOL from his house, found walking down a nearby road, confused.

The Major died in the Waco VA Hospital, and from what I've read, it was a psych type facility. I think the Major may have gone down that same path, based on his appearance in later photos and the type hospital.

I'm making assumptions based on tid bits of info pointing in that direction, no hard evidence.

They both lived to ripe old ages.

DF

I got the kindle version a few nights ago, due to lack of patience, it's a fairly entertaining read.

I don't understand all of the "it was a different time" comments, as he seems like just the sort we need today...and at times previous to today that would have prevented us from arriving at today as we know it. PC is a disease that needs to be cut out of the country.

Did you end up hating him? Because I'm afraid I will.

You can better understand him without hating him.

It's not our business to judge the man, he's been judged by the ultimate judge.

He was ruthless, no doubt, but had a soft side.

He left a mark and a legacy. Afterall, here we are talking about him after he's departed the scene.

He was complex and interesting, a unique soul.

DF

The only thing unique about that guy was he spoke candidly about the things he did.

Everybody else in his profession wasn't much different.




Dave

Candid for sure.

He was a good story teller, liked to use "shock and awe" as a tool to enhance his stories and hold the reader's attention.

Makes one wonder how much of that was just a ploy to publish. It seemed to work.

DF

Askins probably lived very comfortably on his writing earnings along with his military retirement, etc., but that wouldn't be enough to do all the hunting that he did. Like other writers of his era, Askins "worked" the industry to his advantage. One way was by reputedly operating as a booking agent for various outfitters and safari companies. Taking a 10% commission off a $10k booked hunt adds up pretty quick. I doubt that Charlie was above boosting them up for freebie hunts in exchange for a bit of written publicity, either. A lot of his custom rifles were probably acquired in similar fashion (Rheinardt Fajen, for example, who stocked many of Askins' rifles, was continually mentioned in his articles). None of these tactics were all that uncommon among gun and outdoor writers of his time.

For me when I mention times were different then, things he did would land him in jail now.. Not that I think they were wrong.. I remember his story of shooting the Mexican smugglers. Charlie saw they were armed, knew they would shoot so he shot them first.. Personally that is how I feel gangs, criminals committing crimes while armed should be treated. This liberal news media will never stand for it..

Yeah, Charlie did well.

Here's his San Antonio home. Not too shabby...

DF

I was told the same story by a BP agent who told me he was in the next office when it happened.

If he did "well" why did he live in a schithole like San Antonio?




Clark

Tough men, doing tough jobs, do tough things, but few talk about them.
Charlie was one who did as it suited his purpose.

From what I know, he settled there possibly due to the proximity of Ft. Sam Houston.

San Antonio has its good points, nice horse facilities.

His son Bill lives on the North end of town, does very well selling real estate and airplanes. He seems happy living there. His location is North of the Col's house, which is now HQ of the San Antonio Geneological and Historical Society. http://txsaghs.org/

IIRC, the house is on the National Registry.

BTW, Bill Askins has an interesting bio., some of it covered in Unrepentant Sinner.

DF

I have an autographed copy of Unrepentant Sinner. I really enjoyed the book and it gave great insight on a long gone era. Colonel Askins mentioned the 8mm-06 often.
I believe there are plenty like him still around today but if they pulled the same stuff that he did they would be in jail. Back then you were able to get away with a lot more.

Sounds like a typical Paratrooper.
Bob

It's a joke DF. I own the book.

Even opened it once.



Clark

It is an interesting read.

I know you MT guys can be less than enamored with Texicans...

So, I didn't know if you were gesting or not...

DF

Charlie took pride in projecting that image, especially to the uninitiated. He would have fit in here on the Fire...

He had a few close friends to whom he was fiercely loyal. Parker was one of those. He held most others in some contempt, not much in between.

DF

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Colonel Askins was the physical embodiment of that quote. We need more like him.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm a retired military medic. My father served in combat. Brother was a combat engineer in Vietnam.

While doing hospice care for dying veterans I listened to a lot of stories they wanted off their chests before they died. WW2, Korea, Vietnam.
Really ugly stuff they had to do for our country. None of them ever bragged about killing other human beings in war. It was their duty to do that. And they put the experiences away as best they could.

What bothers myself about Col Askins is he liked killing and bragged about it. It's just creepy

With Charlie as story teller extraordinaire, it's hard to sort out embellishment from fact.

How much of his cold blooded killer personna is poetic license vs. core truth?

Just a thought, as we will probably never know how that sorts out, and by design.

DF

One thing stands out in my mind from "Unrepentant Sinner" - he liked to kill people from ambush or just plain shooting them in the back.

I was digging through Ken Howell's old posts trying to find his comments about Askins since he knew the man and apparently Askins liked him, and someone said something about Col. Askins being a good man to have your back. Ken replied that was probably not true, it all depended on whether Charlie liked you at that particular moment or not as he very well might shoot you there.

IIRC he did say that Col. Askins' favorite thing to kill was people, or his favorite thing to do was kill people, something like that.

If you were in the infantry you'd know that is absolutely the best way to engage and kill your enemy. Nice guys finish last.
Bob

11B40.

I didn't put a value judgement on it, I just said my take from the book was that he liked to shoot people in the back or from ambush. If you find that statement disturbing or insulting that's your take on it.

11Z5P.

I think we're on the same page. I liked Charlie and knew him from a few visits to his casa in the late 80's. I found him to be polite, gracious, a perfect gentleman and a great story teller. I would have loved to have been his 1SG "back in the day".

There was a thread about him here a few years back that raked him over the coals by people like Ken Howell (who started off by saying he "liked Charlie but...") that accused him of everything from ambushing Viet Minh guerrillas while on a combat tour (he did), to killing little black babies and their mommies while on safari (a total smear by Howell-no evidence except, "he heard"). Towards the end of the thread a new poster on the forum hit back at the peanut gallery and shut them up. She happened to be his granddaughter. I found it amusing that Howell talked about Charlie after he was dead; he would have been bitch-slapped if he said that when Askins was alive. It was even better that Askins' granddaughter got on the forum and took him down.

I don't find your statement "disturbing" or "insulting". It's your opinion, which is fine. Mine is that I MUCH prefer shooting at someone from ambush; way better odds of no return fire. It wasn't high noon in An Najaf Province or Sadr City; we killed them as efficiently as possible, from ambush when they weren't expecting it. That's a good firefight, in my opinion. Askins made the mistake (according to some people) of writing about combat or his Border Patrol shootings and not being overcome with grief or remorse. No, I guess he wasn't "changed forever" after combat. That's the Hollywood narrative. He survived, relished his combat experiences and made money writing about them. Good for him.
Bob

Perfectly said. Charlie liked to start food fights over calibers, barrel length, etc, then sit back and watch the outrage and disbelief over what he wrote. I'm sure he embellished a lot of his stuff. The mark of a good gunwriter.
Bob

never could figure how it is bad to shoot someone in the back but ok to call in an airstrike or artillery

Here's a copy and paste from my superposed thread on Shotgunworld.com. His granddaughter did some serious bitch slapping, no doubt...

Guess that apple didn't fall too far from the tree...



On "24hourcampfire.com" under "Forums", "Hunting and Shooting", and "Ask the Gunwriters" there is a thread, "So...how bout Charlie Askins." Some contributors are Askins fans, others are very critical to the point of being crude. The thread bounces back and forth until the Colonel's grand daughter, under the name, "Thangle" writes a great piece about her grandfather. I'm posting her comments as they contain new information (at least to me) about him fighting in Africa. Some on the Forum had accused him of being a sociopathic baby killer. As the "1933 Superposed" site had essentially turned into an Askins site, I think her comments are interesting and an appropiate addition to this body of work. I'm not sure which granddaughter she is, but I like her writing style. Bill has three daughters and she mentions the Colonel having four granddaughters. If not Bill's daughter, maybe his neice.


"Sigh. To the fans and aficionados, thank you.
To the rest of you, what a load of Cr*p.

Hi, I'm Charlie's granddaughter, let me set some of this straight.

He wasn't a babykiller. I don't know who started that story originally, but its obviously spun out of control.

He loved the women in his family dearly (his wife, his daughter, and his 4 granddaughters). He hated his mother and his sister (met the sister once, what total trash).

He drank tequila and ouzo daily, because he had arthritis. I never once in my lifetime heard him bemoan any kind of issue that he'd need to drink his troubles away.

Yes, he shot a lot of blacks in Africa. There was this little war most Americans don't learn about where the white farmers who had developed Rhodesia were being slaughtered by black revolutionaries. My family had many many friends there, and he was there to help them try to come out on top in that war. Unfortunately that was not to be, and the country is now Zimbabwe. Maybe a few more Charlie Askins could've kept the country from turning into a unfarmable wasteland with 5000% inflation.

If you met him and he was charming the ladies, guess what? He was a charming person when he wanted to be. He wasn't trying to steal you wife, he was just cooler than you, sorry bub.

And yes, the way he fought might be considered sneaky. But he kicked a$$, took names, and lived to be a very old man, which is more than a lot of gung ho whackjobs can say. He'd think most of these kids going off to war currently are total wahoos for the way they do things now, I guarantee it.

He had several strokes, and a a few heart attacks in his later years, and a dwindling case of dementia. Yes, he drove off one day to take his dog to the vet and got lost. There were NOT posters all over town (what crap, we had one news report run, and a family friend actually returned him to us).

He passed away in his own bed at home holding hands with his loving wife. Which is a far sight better than most men, psychopathic killer or not, will ever do".

Fugk Howell.

The reputation Askin's left behind is far more than Howell left behind. Except on the fugkin' internet of course.




Travis

Biographical accounts show Askins as a "recovery officer". That likely translates to him being and Ordnance weanie whose role was to collect the arms remaining on a battle field from casualties well after the smoke, fire and threat had subsided.

As a military retiree I resent Askins being portrayed as a "heroic" character when actually he carried out his perverse and cowardly acts well protected by real men of combat arms.

I've seen a good many of these "heros" and most veterans experienced in a combat environment will likely agree.

You need to read up on what a battlefield recovery officer at the company level did in WW II...somewhat different than you think. The Germans were recovering every Nazi tank, field gun or any parts they could, especially in North Africa, where the Africa Corps was starved logistically. The chances of running into a German unit also doing battlefield recovery was almost guaranteed, as well as armed Arabs stealing from the bodies. Firefights were often, which is why US recovery units were manned and equipped like US infantry companies.

Speaking also as an Army retiree (Infantry 1SG), I don't think Askins being willing to kill enemy Soldiers is "perverse and cowardly". Nobody said Askins was a "hero"...but he volunteered for WW II, did his job well, rose to full COL rank and retired honorably. I knew Askins, and found him to be worthy of my respect as a fellow combat vet. He also went through jump school at 40; now THAT'S a bad-ass.
Bob

Spot on, Bob

Reviewing the granddaughter's account refreshes my memory of the Col's later year confusion. She confirms dementia. I defer to her info.

DF

So tell us about Ordnance folks in WW2. You don't know [bleep]

Are we, now, to suppose he's an animal for killing those who needed killing years ago and still do?

Nope,not from me.

How did Askins hunt that much? I knew a guy who never seemed to have two dimes to rub together. He hunted in Africa many times, killing six elephants, a lion, many kudu, etc., and even a tiger in India.

How did he do it? He hooked up as a booking agent for PHs in Africa and then went along on the trip to "help" with the clients. When the clients went home, he took over their licenses and shot the game still on their quotas. Then he would approach a farmer and offer, for room and board for a month or two, to thin out the game on the farmer's farm/ranch. He stayed in Africa for months at a time, hunting always and with no cash outlay.

His daughter ended up fairly wealthy, owning a DHL-like delivery service in Botswana. His son was killed in the Rhodesian bush wars.

His adventures were largely unknown but were not too different from Askins. He died last year at 93. too bd he couldn't, or didn't, write about it.

RGK;
Good morning to you sir, I trust the day in your part of the world has started as peaceful, bright and clear as it is up here just across the medicine line from Washington State.

I wanted to say thanks to you, Dirt Farmer and the others who've added the information from personal interaction and the thread when Col. Askins granddaughter participated. It adds perspective and we tend to loose our grip on it anymore these days - or so it seems to me.

Very vividly I recall a conversation with a Canadian WWII vet - I'm 54 and grew up in an era when about half the adult males were vets - anyway this gentleman actually talked in some detail to me, which I'll note was relatively rare in my experience as I wasn't a fellow vet.

While I can't recall his exact phrasing, he said that the overriding regret he had from his wartime tour was finding out he was good at combat. While he was cognizant that skill had ensured he and many of his brothers in arms were able to return home, it still had a profound effect on him knowing he'd been born that way.

"What a terrible thing to find out you were good at" is how I recall him putting it. He followed by saying if he'd never have gone, he'd never have known - or that was his belief.

As mentioned, I believe that Col. Askins was relatively unique in that he'd talk/write about his personal experiences in combat.

Lastly we had family friends who were in several African countries doing mission work from 1959 until they retired some 30 years later. As far as I'm aware their children are still there.

We visited them in Kenya in 1975 and truly it was quite "civilized" then - all things taken into consideration.

That said, unless one has been there a fair bit or known folks who have, it's difficult to wrap our western heads around what passes for "civilized" there. I'll just leave that one there if that's alright.

Anyway thanks again to you and all who've made the thread an interesting read.

All the best to you all in the remaining days of summer.

Dwayne

Thangle wrote that on the Campfire in 2011.


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4882206/7

BC30cal, that's an interesting and poignant perception on the part of that vet.

On another note I've been to Africa, several times and my perception of Africa as a continent is that it has seen its best days from both the hunting aspect and the state of civilization aspect. That's a generalization of course.

Good information.. The Col. was an interesting guy fo sure!!!!

Got my copy of "Unrepentant Sinner" today.

ordered my copy today

Going to the eye doctor in a little bit,so I have something to read while waiting.

Careful.

You guys could turn into Askins junkies...

DF

Hope so.

Me too.

It starts off with a bang, literally.

Just started where he's beginning his job in the Border Patrol.

It gets better.

He's just setting you up...

DF

Figured it's going to get exciting from here.

Made it to chapter 7. That's enough for tonight.

I've hunted quail around the Mt. Riley area.

While the Col. was stationed at Ft. Bliss, the Major moved from OK to be near the family.

During those years, he did a lot of desert quail hunting in SE NM, near Bliss. Photos of him holding quail along with his 1933 Superposed are in several books, maybe also in Unrepentant Sinner.

DF

Thank you for that link, your acquisition of the Askins' Superposed is quite the find!

Charles wrote that he hunted blue quail on the Cox ranch. Which is by the Organ Mountains. To get to the ranch you had to drive over St. Augustines pass.



This is a pic of part of the Organ Mts,where the pole is pointing is St. Augustines pass (more or less),the other side of the Organ Mts. is the Cox ranch and White Sands Missile Range. White Sands is where he hunted blue quail before the military took it.

Ft.Bliss is on the other side of the Franklin Mts. El Paso starts at where the telephone pole with the transformer is and Juarez,Mx is at the right just outside the pic.

Thanks for that info and photos.

Interesting story coming up in Unrepentant Sinner about old man Cox and the Mexican cattle thieves. Evidently he was one tough SOB, Charlie's kinda man and close friend.

In that day and time, only the tough survived, must less prospered.

How far is this from your place?

DF

Supposedly one of the Cox family was involved in the Pat Garrett murder, which is still unsolved. Great stories and history.
Bob

Tough times, tougher people...

People today are weak and wormy compared to those guys.

I wonder how many would survive that life style.

DF

Not many would have the stomach to enter that lifestyle let alone survive it methinks. There may seem to be a sort of aberrated glamor to it but the reality of it would be grit and a continual, inner anxiety to my way of thinking.

As Thoreau commented, "the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation". Unless one was a totally disconnected sociopath, I cannot imagine any of these kinds of men having many minutes of peaceful introspection.

Rob Cox told me that he thought that one of his father's cowboys had probably killed Pat Garrett.

Garrett had alienated the Cox Ranch folks by hiding his buckboard in the brush nearby one morning until all of the men had gone out to work. He then entered the big house unannounced, with his gun in hand, in an attempt to arrest a teenager that was one of the household staff. The boy was well-liked and apparently no one had any idea that he was wanted. When the boy saw Garrett coming into the kitchen, he dove out of a window as Garrett fired several shots at him.

Old Man Cox was incensed that Garrett would barge into his house and discharge his weapon at an unarmed youth, severely frightening all of the women that had remained. Apparently, his anger (and that of his ranch hands) did not subside as time went on and only became more intense.

Ben,was Garrett,"Law" at the time, or just bounty hunting ?

As I understood it, he was the Sheriff.

It is very difficult and quite often, fallacious, to judge a peace officer as to his actions close to 90 years ago. The U.S./Mexico border when Askins was working it as a Border Patrol agent, was an extremely rough and dangerous place, from what I have read of those days. The "border" was not a place that would ensure an officer's survival, were he to be working under today's politically correct "rules of engagement."

Here is an exert from an article Askins wrote in the 1957 The Gun Digest, "A Man's Sixgun." He was writing about the "new" S&W .44 Magnum revolver.

"During one somewhat lively decade of an otherwise prosaic life, I worked the Rio Grande as a border patrolman. Every night of that half score years I wished for just such a shooting iron as this big bruiser, this fine new howitzer, the .44 Magnum. Sometimes we had as many as three separate and distinct gunfights during an 8 hour shift. Had this big Maggie sixgun been around, what a lulu of a pacifier it would have been on the border."

Three separate gunfights a night. That, boys and girls, is a lot of very dangerous action which would necessitate giving "no quarter" as the bandits, the outlaws, certainly would be returning the favor.

Today, political correctness demands that very little resistance by the U.S. Border Patrol agents is allowed. I can understand that 80/90 years ago, if a border patrolman encountered bandits and outlaws who had no compunction about shooting patrolmen, that it was wise to get in the first shot.

Askins was a man-of-his-times... and he survived.

Just my opinion.

L.W.

I was at White Sands Missile Range off and on for about 3 1/2 years when I worked for the Army Missile Command. Saw a lot of those blue quail and Gambel's quail, and always wanted to hunt them, but never got the chance.

Got to be friends with some of the locals around Las Cruces, near the Cox ranch, as well as over in Lincoln and Otero Counties on the East and North side of the Missile Range. To this day, Pat Garrett is not held in very high esteem by a lot of folks in that area.

Great story; thanks!
Bob

First and foremost I made a booboo,it's San Augustine Pass not St. Augustine Pass.

Mt. Riley is about 50 miles South and West from where I am right now. When I go out that way again I'll take a picture of the "mountain".

Ver interesting stuff guys and thanks for your comments and contributions here. Because life has been so compacted and exponentially so by the technology age, it's hard to imagine how different life was ninety years ago.

I can distinctly remember the 60's when I was a teen and how much different it was from now, and then go retro another forty or so, and there is no doubt in my mind that "they" were still walking the "rim" of the Old West and its ways.

Yup,Pat Garrett was Sheriff.

Great stuff guys!

Leanwolf - thank you very much.

That puts this subject in a proper perspective. I appreciate it very much.

Jerry

At that time it was common for law enforcement to get paid for each arrest of someone wanted by the law. Pat Garrett was thinking of his wallet that day!

I'm through the WWII part of Charlie's life and I still don't hate him.

I just finished "Unrepentant Sinner" and didn't come away with the impression Askins liked killing but rather had no compunction about it and didn't waste time being racked with guilt for using violence against those who would have wrought it upon him. That, and it didn't bother him to talk or write about it.

I never knew the man other than through his writings. I liked much of his stuff, I suppose largely because he wrote fairly well and he had some extremely cool left handed rifles. His writings were always interesting.

I finished the book yesterday and still have like him. Matter of fact would've loved to have met him,might have had a lively conversation.

I am with you elk!!

I have read several places where it was thought Deacon Jim Miller had murdered Garrett..

Take this for what's its's worth.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-patgarrett.html

Good as any one...

I was Askins' host at Kimber of Oregon.

He was a prick. I'm glad he is dead.

Period.

No need to hold back, let us know how you really feel...

DF

That's it.

kd

Askins was a serious magnumaniac. In THE HUNTERS RIFLE he refers to the 7x57 as being too puny to be any great shakes as a hunting round and he calls the .358 Win. an adequate round for small rodents. And in "SINNER" he calls both the .270 and .30-06 puny and he denigrates both Whelen and O'Connor for recommending the .270. He was about right in line with his pal Elmer.

Man, what would he have to say about Csmpfire Stunt shooters???

DF

Plenty.

About half way through "Unrepentant". I don't think he had respect for the sanctity of life at least in his early years.

He called the .270 a "pipsqueak." Got a kick out of that.

He used the .358 in Vietnam when he was stationed there. IIRC he shot a Gaur with it and again IIRC he lost the animal.

He lost that Tiger with the .358 too. It sounded to me like he hit it hard with it somersaulting backwards at the shot.

Was reading a WWII vets story of his service. In it he mentions an unnamed Lt.Col. who was driving his jeep and leading a tank recovery vehicle into a quiet area of the front lines. Stopped by troops , the Lt.Col. only left when a Thompson SMG armed Sgt threatened to "gut" if he didn't leave immediately.

Not all life is sacred.

He rose no higher than Major in WWII.

Thanks moose.

Yes,he did.

Ok,here is Mt. Riley. 5 miles South of there is the US/Mexico border.



These are the East Portrillos as they are called now. Some where in those was the headquarters for Ed Cox's ranch. They are just East of Mt. Riley.



These are the West Portrillos. Just West of Mt. Riley.

Cool!

Thanks, Elk.

DF

Yup,hunted quail all around Mt. Riley back when there was quail. Used to see some deer hunters camped close to Mt. Riley,never knew if anyone killed any though,but every year there would be hunters there.

I have heard that there are quail there this year, but it's a large area.

If he was alive today, he might say the 270 is gay. Lol.

Maybe a .223AI fan...

DF

I skimmed over the last few pages, then googled him.

I found a couple of shorts stories on Tatical life. The fat kraut was interesting. And after reading about the 44 mag in SE/Asia, I recalled reading about that maybe 30 plus years ago, but can't remember if it was in a NRA magazine.

May try and get out there later this fall for quail and coyotes.

Just finished "Sinner". I don't think he was all that bad a guy. A tough man for tough times.

I agree.

He doesn't fit today's P.C. world, was a unique individual who lived at a time when his skill set was better appreciated. Some today who claim to not be P.C., are more P.C. than they realize or admit. This thread is evidence of that.

His soul is another matter, way above my pay grade to judge.

He was a renouned story teller and provocateur. Being controversial sold copy and put food on his table. He for sure could stir folks up and here we are, still talking about him long after he's departed the scene.

So, as a story teller/provocateur, he was immensely successful.

DF

Exactly. What made him and Uncle Elmer successes was they were very opinionated and they were eager to share those opinions. If you didn't like what they had to say then tough [bleep].

I asked Bill Askins to review and critique this thread.

Here are his comments.


SOME COMMENTS FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AS SOMEBODY WHO KNEW MY DAD BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE:

1. THE MORALITY OF KILLING: IN THE BORDER PATROL HE WAS ALWAYS OUTNUMBERED IN ANY SHOOTOUT, AND THE OTHER SIDE WAS COMPLETELY WILLING (AND EAGER) TO KILL ANYBODY THAT GOT IN THEIR WAY. IT IS PERFECTLY OKAY TO START THE GUNPLAY, AND IT GIVES YOU THE INITIATIVE, AND SAVES YOUR LIFE.
ANY OF THESE GUYS WHO TALK ABOUT SOME ETHICAL DEMAND TO "FIGHT FAIR" HAVE NEVER, EVER, BEEN IN A FIREFIGHT. YOU DO WHATEVER IS NECESSARY TO KILL THE ENEMY, AND YOU MUST TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ANYTHING THAT SWAYS THE FIGHT TO YOU. MY DAD NEVER SUFFERED ANY DOUBTS ABOUT WHAT HE DID. THIS IS NOT HOLLYWOOD, ITS REAL LIFE, AND YOUR LIFE IS ON THE LINE!

2. JORDAN DID KILL ANOTHER BP OFFICER. HE WAS PLAYING WITH HIS REVOLVER, DID A QUICK DRAW, IT DISCHARGED UNEXPECTEDLY, THE BULLET WENT THROUGH THE WALL AND KILLED A PATROLMAN IN THE NEXT ROOM. BEYOND THAT SHOOTING, JORDAN NEVER HAD AN ACTUAL GUNFIRE THAT ANYBODY KNOWS ABOUT. HE JUST LOOKED THE PART, BEING A SORT OF GARY COOPER STYLE FELLOW. HE TOURED THE USA FOR MANY YEARS WHEN ON DUTY WITH THE BP, PUTTING ON A QUICK DRAW SHOW AND PROMOTING THE BORDER PATROL. HE WAS ALSO A OFFICER IN THE MARINE CORPS RESERVE, SPENT THE WHOLE WAR IN REAR ECHELON JOBS.

3. MY DAD WAS A VERY STRONG PERSONALITY, A COMMANDING PRESENCE, AND WHEN HE ISSUED ORDERS, OR MADE DEMANDS, THEY WERE OBEYED. HE HAD THE MOST STARTLING EYES IMAGINABLE, LIGHT GREEN WITH FLECKS OF GOLD, AND THEY COULD TURN VERY COLD INDEED. I THINK A LOT OF THESE GUYS THAT SPEAK ILL OF HIM WERE PROBABLY INTIMIDATED BY HIM AND BECAME RESENTFUL, HAPPY TO TAKE A POTSHOT AT HIM NOW.

4. THE .308 MODEL 70, WITH THE BIRDSEYE MAPLE STOCK AND THE SILVER CAP "CHARLES ASKINS", MODIFIED TO LEFT HAND BOLT, IS ONE OF THE GUNS THAT I HAD AUCTIONED OFF SEVERAL YEARS AGO.
A HANDSOME PIECE BUT I AM RIGHT HANDED!

5. THANGLE IS MY SISTER'S KID. MY SISTER IS VERY, VERY BRIGHT, AND THANGLE IS TOO, IS PRODUCING SHORT FILMS IN HOLLYWOOD NOW.

6. KEN HOWELL WAS JUST ONE MORE JOURNEYMAN GUN WRITER, AND COULD ONLY BE DESCRIBED AS AN OCCASIONAL ACQUAINTANCE OF MY DAD. HE HAS GIVEN HIMSELF A CLOSER ASSOCIATION THAT IS WARRANTED BY THE FACTS.

7. THE RHODESIAN BABY STORY IS A DISTORTION OF THE TRUTH. WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED WAS THAT MY DAD AND SOME OF HIS RHODESIAN PALS WERE OUT IN THE BUSH CHASING TERRORISTS THAT HAD RAIDED A NEARBY FARM. THEY HAD A SHOOTOUT, AND THE ONLY SURVIVOR WAS A LITTLE KID. THEY BROUGHT IT BACK TO THEIR FARM'S NATIVE HAMLET, GAVE IT TO A WIDOW THERE TO RAISE. WE BOTH HAD GREAT SYMPATHY FOR THE RHODESIANS, BOTH BLACK AND WHITE. THEY WERE THROWN UNDER THE BUS BY THE USA FOR WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE POLITICAL GAIN FOR THE THEN ADMINISTRATION. THE COUNTRY, OF COURSE, WAS DESTROYED; IT WAS THE BREADBASKET OF AFRICA AT THAT TIME, EVERYBODY WAS FED, HAPPY, AND LIVING IN HARMONY.

8. REGARDING THE SHOOTINGS, THERE WERE MORE. HE ONLY WROTE ABOUT THE MORE INTERESTING ONES. THERE WERE SOME OTHERS THAT WERE ON MORE SENSITIVE TARGETS THAT MUST REMAIN OUT OF PRINT. WHETHER HE INCLUDED THOSE IN THE 27 KIA I HAVE NO IDEA, BUT AMONG HIS CONTEMPORARIES IN THE ARMY HE WAS WELL REGARDED, AND DID A CONSIDERABLE PERIOD OF TIME ON GENERAL STAFF DUTY DEALING WITH INTELLIGENCE PROJECTS. I NEVER DID GET AN ACCURATE HEADCOUNT ON THE RHODESIAN STUFF.

9. MY DAD WAS THE COMMANDING OFFICER OF THE FIRST EVER BATTLEFIELD RECOVERY COMPANY IN THE US ARMY. THIS WAS IN II CORPS IN NORTH AFRICA. IT WAS FORMED OVER THERE, AND COL BRUCE MEDARIS PICKED HIM TO COMMAND IT SINCE HE WANTED SOMEBODY THAT WOULD WORK COOLLY UNDER FIRE. MEDARIS HAD BEEN A MARINE IN WWI, PICKED UP A RESERVE COMMISSION BETWEEN THE WARS, EVENTUALLY BECAME A MAJOR GENERAL AND COMMANDING GENERAL OF REDSTONE ARSENAL AND THE ENTIRE ARMY MISSILE COMMAND. DYNAMIC CHARACTER AND ONE OF MY DAD'S PATRONS. HE TOOK MY DAD ALONG WITH HIM WHEN HE WENT OFF TO FIRST ARMY AS THE ARMY ORDNANCE OFFICER, MAKING HIM THE ARMY'S BATTLEFIELD RECOVERY OFFICER DURING THE ENTIRE EUROPEAN CAMPAIGN. HE WAS UNDER FIRE REGULARLY, ESPECIALLY IN NORTH AFRICA, AND WAS WOUNDED RECOVERING TANKS FROM THE KASSERINE PASS FIASCO. HE GOT PULLED OFF FOR A SPECIAL MISSION BY GEORGE PATTON (WHO HAD BEEN A CAVALRY REGIMENTAL COMMANDER ON THE BORDER DURING THE '30s AND KNEW MY DAD'S CAPABILITIES) BUT OTHERWISE SERVED THROUGHOUT THAT CAMPAIGN AND THE SICILY INVASION BEFORE GOING BACK TO ENGLAND IN PREPARATION FOR THE NORMANDY INVASION. HE SPENT THE ENTIRE WAR OVERSEAS EXCEPT FOR A PERIOD WHEN MEDARIS ROTATED HIM ON COMPASSIONATE LEAVE WHEN MY BROTHER WAS KILLED. HE PICKED UP AN ORDNANCE BATTALION IN THE STATES, AND BROUGHT IT BACK TO THE ETO WHEN HE CAME BACK.

HOPE YOU WILL FIND THIS OF INTEREST.

BEST REGARDS,

BILL


Edited to delete a sentence not for publication. It slipped thru.

Link on Gen. Medaris who the Col. mentions in Unrepentant Sinner and who Bill referenced.

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-07-16/news/mn-135_1_john-bruce

DF

Great info! Thanks for sharing.

Extremely interesting. Thanks to Bill and DF for sharing.

Bill's an interesting guy in his own right.

There was some info I omitted per his request.

I've told him, the Askins style for writing and story telling is still alive.

I've enjoyed the association, never met him in person, hope to rectify that one of these days. We have done a fair amount of correspondence regarding various topics including Askins guns. A lot of that info is on the Shotgunworld link.

DF

I assume when he spoke of the 308 Winchester 70 LH he was referring to the 308 Norma Mag.

I bet he is!

Yes.

That's pretty good documentation of provenance right there.

DF

Thanks Dirtfarmer! That was very interesting stuff Bill shared. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I learned some good stuff from our New Mexico contributors.

Thanks guys for sharing local history, photos and general information.

DF

DF, your info from Bill helps put the book in perspective to.

Yeah, Bill give a point by point commentary on this thread from a very unique perspective.

Sorta like Elmer's book, "Hell, I was There"...

Bill definitely "was there"...

DF

Thanks Dirt Farmer...I read the old thread with Howell slamming Askins years ago and it infuriated me. I was new to the forum though, and didn't comment. Askins was a gentleman and a great host, signed my books and talked extensively about the old days when I stopped by. We both had a lot in common...Army Pistol Team, lefthanded, Airborne, etc.

I would have loved to have been one of his senior NCOs in combat or stateside. Would have been a lot of rounds sent downrange.
Bob

That's the next book I need.

MM,you will enjoy Elmer's book "Hell,I was there."

As you recall, Elmer and Charlie were close friends, neither liked JOC. Elmer was critical of JOC, Charlie detested him.

The Major and Elmer were close, the Major helping Elmer get started as a gunwriter. Elmer being friends with the Major just about guaranteed Charlie and Elmer would be buds. And, so it was.

Interesting dynamics.

DF

Bob,

Could you post that link here?

DF

so How about Charles Askins?

That's it. Thanks!
Bob

Elmer and Charlie were pretty close in preferences too. They both preferred magnums over .30 cal. Askins with his .323's and Keith with his .338's.

Bullet technology has changed all that to a degree.

At the time, their choices made a lot of sense.

Today, everything can be taken with a .223AI...

We have that on good authority...

DF

Somehow I missed reading a lot of Askins - but do have his book on order.

I recall one story he told, where he and a PH were walking on a grassy plain, and stopped to look around at various herds, discussing where to go. About a hundred yards away, a tree was full of baboons raising hell, looking at the men. After a few minutes of talking about where they'd go next, suddenly about ten feet in front of them a leopard stood up, appearing from no where out of ankle high grass. Both men were stunned that they could be that close to a leopard in short grass, and not see him. That was why the baboons were raising cain, because they saw the leopard.

It impressed me that he had enough humility to tell the story

Askins was quicker to write about the shots he missed or bungled than his great shots. And beings he killed 700 animals I imagine he made a lot of great shots. So yeah, he had some humility.

Some more great info. The letter from Bill was excellent..Thanks for keeping this going...

You guys are a bad influence on me. The 308 Norma mag of his is coming to live with me.

For real?? Hey that is awesome!! Photos I hope.. If I can find it I have the article he wrote about that rifle..He shot a polar bear with it if I remember right.

Man, that would be a nice touch.

DF

I get home from the slope the 18th. It should be waiting for me when I get there at my favorite dealer. I'd love to have a copy of that article or know which magazine it came out in and I'd keep an eye out on eBay and Amazon for one. I have his book, "The Hunter's Rifle" ordered.

I'll definitely get some photos going. I doubt I'll be able to hunt it this year as I'll be caribou hunting right after getting home. I did find some brass already and a friend has several boxes of factory ammo. He has promised to share a couple boxes with me.

This rifle fits right in with my passion for unique firearms. I really don't have much in the way of what most would call standard rifles.

We have different definitions of "bad". Lets see those pics when it shows up.

Yup,pictures when you get the .308 NM in.

Are you serious? That is way cool!

BTW, "THE HUNTERS RIFLE" is a great read and he talks about that .308 Norma.

I'm 70-odd pages into Unrepentant Sinner

Even if some of the stories are embellished in telling, he was quite a contradiction. At one point casually describing a violent deadly encounter, and on the next page waxing poetic over the death of a favorite horse. The style of writing likewise is interesting - a straightforward declarative style, but with esoteric words that I'm not quite sure ever existed in the dictionary

It's not a dull read. Would be interesting to see what sort of movie a good director could make of it - someone like Eastwood.

The waxing poetic about the horse was Major Askins. Charlie included it to give us insight into what his Dad was like.

yeah, I understood that. His dad dug the grave and buried the horse himself. Charlie nonetheless included it in the book, so I reckon he felt much the same way.

Besides being a cavalry officer in the old Army, the Major hunted a lot from horseback.

His Ithaca double that Walt Snyder ended up with, has a worn area on the left side of the forearm, from years of saddle horn wear. See Shotgunworld link for details. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=369279

He had a special relationship with those animals, they were family.

So, no real surprise that he would react to a loss like he did.

DF


edited to add link.

the part where he talks about them having a few drinks to knock the edge off before a match, is what i use to do when i was shooting ipsc.

I'm sure it works. I always shot better at Pool after a couple drinks.

I've been told by others that this trick works wonders.

Yup. I had a sweet spot, sober I sucked, hammered I sucked, but there was a nice place right in the middle where it all came together.

Pat-
There are some eerie parallels between Col. Askins and Col. Kurtz of Apocalypse Now. Both Askins and the fictional Kurtz were in Vietnam well before the build up in the mid-late 60s. Both went to Airborne School later in their careers, which is apparently an unusual move.

One of the writer for Apocalypse Now was John Milius, who has been up to his eyeballs in firearms lore for a long time, including being an NRA director. It would be fun to ask Millius if Askins was an inspiration for some facets of Kurtz's movie character.

--Bob

I know I'm a lot better singer when I have had 4 or 6....

Unfortunately, no one who is listening seems to realize that.

Congratulations. I've only got one feeling and you sir, have just hurt it.