I moved to SW Michigan recently and found that they have firearms limitations for deer hunting in this region. One can use a 45 Colt lever action but not a 45/70 due to cartridge length. I have a 45 Colt Ruger Bisley that I may use this year but I would like to get a lever action that I can scope and that will handle the same potent loads that my Bisley does.

My brother screwed up and bought a Henry Big Boy 45 Colt only to discover that it will not handle the longer cartridge length of loading the 335 grain cast bullets.

I have been doing some research but so far have not found a manufacturer that produces a good 45 Colt lever action that will handle 1.75" cartridges and can take a scope. Anyone know of such a gun?

I wouldn't say your brother screwed up with the Henry.

Just a little tunnel vision that he needs a 335 cast to kill a Michigan Whitetail.

A 270 SAA will do it every day. As will the 255 the gun was designed around. Both of these should handle MI black bear as well.

I'm not sure that any of the lever actions made for the 45 colt these days won't have some issue with a 335 seated out to max.

I got a double barrel colt that will handle them though...

That Henry will love the Hornady 45 Lever Revolution 225 flex tip.

Rufous, are you shooting the 335 in your Bisley?

Just curious.


ETA: it seems the Rossi 92 may handle longer loads, but I have no first hand.

Basing that on some searches.

For a fact a factory 240 grain WW white box .43 caliber bullet from a 16.5 inch Marlin 44 magnum will cleanly disembowel a deer shot straight on and a bit low. I miss my 44 mag carbine. I cannot imagine a lighter 45 bullet would not be similar.

For whatever reason, load data for .45 Colt rifle loads is pretty mild. Even Brian Pearce's data for his Browning Low Wall Traditional Hunter looks pretty anemic velocity-wise compare to published .44 mag loads. The Lyman #49 manual goes so far as to state that if you need magnum power, get one. The old saw about .45 Colt brass being weak has been pretty well debunked so I suspect it may be related to the thinner metal of the barrel breech, but don't know for certain. There's still plent of power for deer, of course, but the trajectory might be a bit higher.

If anyone knows the real reason, I'd appreciate hearing it.

FWIW, I've killed one deer with a 225gr HP out of a 6" S&W and one with a Federal 240gr Hydroshock from a 44/77. I see no need for a bullet as heavy as 335 grains. If I wanted good expansion and reliable penetration, I'd likely spring for some of the Swift Partition-clones.

Not sure if it makes the cut on case length, but the Rossi and maybe another one is available in .454 as well.

Encores are available in .460 and .500. If the cases are too long to be legal, just trim them a bit. Regular .45s will work in the .460 as well.

I absolutely agree that a 335 Cast bullet is not needed for Michigan white tail deer but he bought his for bear and elk as well and I would prefer not to limit myself to only being able to using shorter/lighter bullets.

I am shooting 335 and 345 casts bullets in my Bisley. I have killed 3 bear with my bisley as well as 8 other bears with my 7mm Rem or 300 Win. I prefer to err on the heavy side of things with bear.

Can the Rossi 92 be easily scoped?

Nope. Marlins are, of course, and the Encores. Taylor's also sells lever guns, including take-down models. They may or may not be made by the same Eyetalians as the Rossis. All of them are Win 92 clones. I wouldn't hesitate to have one D&T'd for a scout mount or red dot. A Skinner or Williams peep can be mounted to replace the leaf sight as well.

A guy I met at the range had the Encore Kata-whatzit Carbine with .460, .500, and .50ML barrels. He loved it. It's very handy, if balanced a bit funny. It'll "feed" anything out of its "one-shot-magazine" of course. The only trouble he had was pressure signs with normal loads in the .460, I suspect because he was loading regular XTPs instead of the magnum version recommended for .454 and .460 loads.

The Swift handgun bullets are expensive, about a buck a pop, but should feed in about anything and come in 300 and 325gr versions. I may pop for a box of the 240gr .44s to load in my Low Wall in case I see a bear during deer season.

Where did you move to?

I have some Leadheads 270 grain Keith style bullets that would work great. Will take elk and bear also. That is what I load in my Bisley.


Rossis suck! And Encores aren't far behind. Just load a good bullet in a 45 Colt or 44 mag, and call it good. I will be using a 450 Bushmaster in southern zone. My bud a Marlin 44 mag.

As you know, the whole rest of state is wide open as far as rifles go.

Your bro did just fine. Years ago, John Linebaugh told me about how his son killed a nice grizzly with same 270 Leadhead bullet out of his 45 Colt revolver. They both use said bullets. Try them, trust me.....

Ruger did make a few #1's in .460 S&W - though they are rare as hen's teeth. You could shoot .45 Colts in them if the .460 is too long for Michigan

Or use some Hornady FTX for deer......

460 is legal.....

How are them Henry rifles?

What are Taylor lever actions? I am the winemaker for a winery near Baroda. Ideally I would like to find a stainless steel lever action that can readily accept a scope and cycle/feed cartridges with the heavier bullets loaded to about 1.75" overall length.

Go to the levergun forum, there are gunsniths who modify some guns to feed longer oal.

Marlin 45 Colt Cowboy.....plenty for MI deer.....

with or w/o glass



glass on this one is Weaver 1-3x20

I found Taylors website. Sadly they do not make the 45 Colt in a stainless model that I say, only the Alaskan Takedown in 44 Mag. They make 45 Colt in other models. Maybe I can talk them into making me a 45 Colt Alaskan. Never hurts to ask. I will have to ask them about cartridge length limitations and pressure limits as well. Thanks to all for your valued input.

They formerly did make the takedown in .45. There is an older review on Gunblasts. They aren't stainless, but rather plated. The takedowns in .44 and .357 feature Skinner sights already mounted and accept a Weaver 61 base on the barrel (top ejection).


Guess in your case, the Stones were right.🤔

I have a blued Rossi 20 inch in 45 Colt. I have been impressed with the little gun. They do offer it in stainless but scoping it would involve an intermediate eye relief scope mounted forward of the receiver.

Mine is wonderfully accurate with factory 250 grain loads, heavy 300 grain WFN loads as well as 285 grain SWC's. I expected it not to feed the SWC's but gave them a try one day. Much to my surprise they fed flawlessly through my gun.

As far as the Rossi being junk, I've heard that and haven't had any of their earlier ones to compare to but mine is well made, accurate and reliable. I'm none to crazy about the safety but will remove that and plug the hole. They sell a lot of the stainless Rossi rifles up here in 44, 45 Colt and 454 Casull.

Good luck with your search.

a Rossi/Puma 45c/454c in stainless is my everyday carry around carbine. lives in a leather scabbard day and night. never let me down. feeds anything and is stupid accurate.
can't put a scope on but it is on out to 100 so don't need one yet. i hate the safety but that is life. have busted deer ,coyote, bear,and cougar with it.does the job

I know that Ruger makes the model 77 bolt action in 44 mag. Does anyone make a bolt gun in 45 Colt?

no love for the 44 mag? If you reload it can be 45 colt type velocity. Don't think they can or will make you what you want as the guns are imported from Italy. OTOH $1500 bucks seems a lot for a chromed (not stainless) I-talian lever gun with a spray on rubber covered wood stock, on the other hand if $500 bucks I could be interested in the 16 inch gun with one of them $300 2.5 power Lupeholes on it. At $1500 they can sell it to the other rubes....

Not that I'm aware of.

You've been told of a number of good options available to you. None of them are exactly what you want, but most of them are good choices. A little customizing would make them even better. You're just going to have to compromise a bit on cartridge, bullet, action type,material, or scope mounting method; one of those at least.

Good luck.

here's an option:



45 colt on a SxS shotgun chassis.

Could have made the site ramp integral for a scope mount, like I did on the 30-30, but this one will hit fine to 100.

There is quite a bit of misinformation floating around on this thread..

#1. You can mount a forward scope on a Rossi 92 and the new ones come D&T to do so..
You can buy the scope base from Rossi or NOE.

#2. Rossi's are made in Brazil, not Italy as suggested by Pappy 348..

#3. You can load the .45 up in a 92 so it acts like a 45-70 short mag. and there is plenty of data to do so.
The .45 Colt will run with the .44 maggie all day long..

#4. If the Henry can't feed a 335gr. FN or LFN order a mold with the proper nose length to feed in the Henry..
If you don't cast your own bullets cain't help you there..

I know you can modify the lifter stop to load a longer OAL in the 92's and Marlins 94, but have yet to see a Henry so I don't know about them..

Here are some links to back up the above..
Load data: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

Go to the Rossi forum for all sorts of info on the R92..
While they are a neat little rifle they can be hit and miss on their feed and function..
http://www.rossi-rifleman.com/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=ec63ee0bb14bdf086c755bbdd2e2b93f

Most buy a video from stevesgunz to slick them up..
https://stevesgunz.com/

Custom Mold makers..
Mt Molds
Accurate Molds
LBT

A word of warning about feeding your 92 a steady diet of heavy cast bullets over a case full of H110/W296 or Lil'Gun..
It doesn't take long until your mag. tube becomes beaten to crap from recoil as they or not threaded into the receiver.
This is esp. true on the rifle configured M92's..
I don't own a carbine version so I can't speak to that..
My .45 Colt M92's are Miroku/ Winchesters are rifle configured..

The Rossi 454 Casull mag. tubes are threaded into the receiver but from what I understand Rossi is no longer making a 92 chambered for the Casull..

A Rossi M92 will get the job done .Yes it can be scoped an the sights are the best I think. Most of your shots are going to be 100 yards or less that said you have a 22 inch. barrel you should be able to take a deer at 200 or 250 with a 255 gr.bullet an this set up.

Sounding like a Rossi 92 is the way to go. If I got one chambered for 454 Casull I could load my 45 Colt cartridges long and probably about as hot as I could stand.

You're right about the Rossis; it was the Puma 92s as sold by LSI that had the manufacturing switched to Chiappa in Italy. I found two reviews from 2009 that confirmed that. The Taylor's 92s are Chiappas as well, and the quality of those seems to be a bit better than the Rossis and they also lack that annoying safety on the bolt.

For what they Taylors cost, they oughta be nicer!

Whatever our OP gets, if he's planning on running heavy bullets, he'd better check the twist rate out.

There is a lot of open country in that area, and a lot bigass bucks also. I shot a 160+ " whitetail near there. Not long ago someone took a 181" buck.

MOST OF Michigan is heavily wooded, but I would want more reach than what a 335 gr. would offer. No need to buy a crappy South American made rifle to accomodate bullets you don't need, IMO. It is just a bad idea.

Having one bullet for everything may be nice, but I would still develop a whitetail load and use one of the USA made rifles. An FTX will get you some trajectory and still kill reliably. The 270 cast I mentioned will kill a damm grizzly bear.

You could also use a smokepole with sabots with any of said bullets, 250-335 grain.

JMO....

I have a Marin cowboy with a Bushnell Holosite, loaded with 300 gr. over max H4227 load. Bad on 'dillers.

The Rossi/'92 design is stronger.

If I was going to buy a Rossi, I'd get it from Steve Jones, already slicked up. His prices are good and he is THE '92 guru, IMO.

https://stevesgunz.com/

DF

At between 150 and 200 yards.... M94 45 Colt Trapper carbine (16" barrel), RCBS "300" cast bullet (320 actual). Bullet punched through the left shovel (anter) on first contact, entered left shoulder, traversed diagonally through chest and gut, exited near the point of the right hip. (Yes, I held over!) That same bullet has completely penetrated 30" of bear at 50 yards.

Neat site. I like this quote towards the bottom of the page: “The golden rule of history is those with the weapons make the rules.”


Good data.

If you buy an out of the box Rossi, it's probably going to be rougher than you want. Unless the buyer is good with lever guns, it'll need work.

The Marlins are easier to take apart and slick up; 92's are more complicated. I've worked with both and would send my '92 to Steve.

You can buy a Rossi directly from him, slick up job already done. That saves money, shipping and time.

If I was in the market, that's exactly what I'd do.

IMO,

DF

What overall cartridge length can the Marlin 94 and Rossi 92 cycle reliably?

IMO, you just gotta try'em.

I think the '92's may be more COAL sensitive than Marlins.

DF

The the Rossi M-92 in 454 and no worries about C. O. A. L.

JWP475- I have heard that running 45 Colt in a 454 chamber can be problematic due to carbon build up. I would prefer not to have to buy 454 cases and mess around changing my reloading die settings.

Just use 454 cases, load to .45 Colt levels for plinking, full loads for business.

DF

Buy a Rossi 92 in 454. Have it worked over by Stevesgunz to the extent your heart and wallet desire. You will be happy with the results. FWIW I have not had any issues switching back and forth between LC and Casull in the 92. I have heard of potential issues doing it in FA revolvers but have not experienced that either.

one hears lot's of things.
main plinking with my 454 is with 45 colt loaded with trailboss.
i probably have 500 rounds of that through it. can't ever remember it balking on 454's and i am the worst rifle cleaner you can imagine. once a year on Christmas or new years if the mood strikes me.

who did that work? i have a sxs i would love to turn into a 45-70

Based on Klikitarik's post, it would appear there is no need for the 454 unless one just really wants it. Of course, his cast bullets were 320 grains, not 335 grains like rofous wants to keep using, and the COAL and nose profile might be a little different. And the Marlin may not be able to handle roufous' load pressures he runs in his Ruger either. Marlin did make some stainless model 1894's but finding one, in 45 Colt no less, might be a lengthy endeavor. Another idea would be to get a blued one and have it coated with something like ROBAR or cerrakote.

Actually one can load the .45 Colt hot enough to do what needs doing. As I noted earlier, the '92 is stronger than the Marlin. How many 454 Marlins have you seen...??

That's right, None...

So, the Rossi could be loaded hotter than what one what want to feed a Marlin.

But, I think I'd keep the loads down to where they weren't overtly painful...

Those big thumpers don't need to be traveling at warp speed to knock the stuffing out of about anything...

DF

My M94 Winchester was purchased 'used' with a recently changed barrel. IT had been taken as a trade-in with a re-chambered 45 Colt> 454 Casull barrel. I don't know what volume of 454s the rifle might have digested, but it checked out fine and has since spit out hundreds of 300+ grain RCBS and Lyman cast bullets while burning 23 grains of W296 with each trigger squeeze.

John Taffin has some good stuff on the 45 Colt:

http://www.sixguns.com/range/45redhawk.htm

Lyman also makes a double crimp groove heavy bullet which would probably work in shorter maximum length designs. The nominal weight is 325 grains. I believe mine are a bit more than that.

Lyman Mould #452651 325 cast

With the help of a couple skilled folks for the barrel fitting to the lump, I did.

what was the donor? that is a fine weapon.

Zastava 16ga SxS.

Has a breech fastener and 2 underlugs.

If I did it again, 20 gauge or smaller. <-heed advice

Haverluk, I take it Stevesgunz did that job for you? Is the metal work coated with something or is it stainless? Appears rather gray in color so I assume it is some coating. Looks nice. And I would want the recoil pad. How tricky would it be to install a scope mount base for a scout type scope on a Rossi 92?

The metal is bead blasted stainless. A scout style scope base could easily be installed. The rail for this application cost about $25.

Here is the list of work I had done:

Action & trigger job
XS receiver sight
SS ¾ big loop
two-tone bead blast
premium recoil pad
Glass bedding
Sling swivels studs
custom flush safety plug
Stainless mag follower
Red HIVIZ sight
silver slot blank

It's a awesome rifle! I wish I could shoot it more.

Like a full tinfoil hat, nobody goes 300 grains over max.


41

Ha!

Well max 4227 load for 300 gr. slugs... 😀

Dead 'dillers, gun intact.

4227 evidently has a smooth pressure curve. Hank Williams, Jr reportedly uses 4227 in his vintage SSA's.

Seems to be a good choice.

DF

I've been doing it for decades with no problem what so ever. To eat a water melon one has to be smarter than the water melon

Works perfectly with 45 colt cases, I shoot way more 45 Colt loaded case in my 454's than I do with 454 loads and it is not a problem.

I could see the very tight Freedom Arms revolvers having the short round ring becoming an issue more than a '92, which by design must have a looser chamber to properly feed. Probably wouldn't even feel a ring.

DF

I once (still have it) bought a 45 Colt Rossi '92 Cowboy...

20" Oct & CH receiver...sent it to Steve's Guns....

yea its slick...but for the $800+ I have in the Rossi...

I'd much rather have a good ole Marlin JM 45 Colt...

which I have two...much easier to work on/clean & service.....

Also Rossi C/S sucks.......no I don't own any RemLins...

I've never, ever experienced a problem shooting 45 colt +P's in my FA 83's in 454

Me either in my FA revolver in 454
And I run more .45 colt loads than .454 Casull rounds through my little Rossi 92.
Also, my Rossi feeds all bullet designs while my Marlin 45 colt did not.

It is complete BS that shooting 45 colts in a 454 chamber is a problem. I have no idea how many rounds would need to be fired without cleaning for a problem to occur, if it is possible. I do not clean mine often and have never ever experienced a problem.

I shoot a hole lot more of these in my 454 chambered revolvers than 454's. This pistol was acquired in the 80's if it was a real problem it should have showed up by now.


r

Good to hear.

My only FA is a .357.

Cowboy action folks talk more about the ring business, .38's in .357's. They shoot low velocity loads that probably don't burn as clean as full house, hot loads. But if all they shoot are .38's, then as HRC says, What difference, at this point, does it make...?

DF

Baker created that myth to sell more cylinders.

Rossie sounds like a Keltec with another name.

This thread wants me taking my M94 45 Colt loaded "large frame Ruger Blackhawk" style with the 260 grain Partition to the next 'fire hog hunt. My eyes are marginal with opens these days so a 1-4X Leupold will likely be mounted though the mounted Skinner barrel mount peep helps a bunch. It shoots this bullet via IMR 4227 very well.

My 41 Mag 1894S Marlin has served well, and I have never felt under gunned.

My late brother was an avid gun nut and reloader. After he passed away his wife asked me to help her sell all the reloading equipment and supplies, along with the ammo. She told me just to keep what I couldn't sell. Ended up with a lot of odd and ends, including about 500 rounds of 45 Colt reloads that were for a pistol he had. Even though I trusted his reloading, I wasn't going to sell reloaded ammo to someone. So, I bought a Rossi in 45 Colt just so I could shoot the ammo. The rifle is accurate and works flawlessly, and even though it's an "off-brand". However, it's probably never going to do anything but sit in a safe, as I just never shoot it.

Roger that.