Well, I don't know if anybody remembers, but I started a thread about performance of the 165 gr hpbt on game sized deer and up. I had previously shot a Blackbuck in the shoulder at 160 yds, and the bullet split in two, killing it like a lightning strike. I thought to myself, If this bullet will come in two on an amimal of this size, what would it do on bigger critters? I got to do some testing the other day on an Axis buck and a fallow doe at 50 yds.

The performance of the bullet was horrible. On the buck, I double lunged him and he ran about 40 yds and died. Only one drop of blood to track with. If my guide had not been with me and seen where the buck had run,it could have turned into a 2 hour tracking job. (It was some thick stuff he had run into) I then shot a Fallow doe at the same distance where her neck joined her body. The shot was a little high and back, so it was essentially a very high shoulder shot. The instant the bullet hit bone, it exploded, crippling the deer and leaving it suffering.

I had to shoot it in the head to put it out of it's misery. So although the load out of my .308 delivers match accuracy, target shooting is all I will use it for. Yeah, it killed the animals, but overall I am very disappointed with the bullet performance. I will try to work up a load with H4895 or Varget behind a 130 gr triple shock. Had I been using that bullet, both deer might have been DRT. I would have at least had a blood trail. The doe would probably never known what hit her. Instead, she suffered unimaginably for about 2 minutes. Way to go Sierra! The techs said it was one of their toughest bullets. Horsesh#&!


The reason I posted this thread in the "Ask The Gunwriters" forum is because it is a follow up thread. The original thread was asking a gunwriter about this bullet.

Is this an HPBT game king or a match bullet?

Gameking.

I don't know what to tell you. Your experience is counter to that of several on this board who have used that bullet for deer/pig duty out of a 308.

... and the .30/06.

Ive used it on several deer out of a 30-06 closest shot was 15 to 20 yards never caught one always stayed together and plowed through.

I've shot numerous deer with that bullet from a .30-06 and .308 without any bad behavior.

They are NOT for use in a .300 WinMag at 40 yards, though.....

I keep them at 2650 to 2750 fps and don't have problems. They didn't particularly like 3200 fps. But, even at that speed, they were still far less frangible than the 150 SSTs I tried.

A bad batch, maybe?
I've used them on antelope, mule deer, and elk - with no problems.

I've used 168gr SMKs on many deer.

I have never lost a Big Game from my 308's using this bullet

Never caught one in an animal pushed to 2800 fps out of my 30-06 but I never purposely shot anything directly into bone either.

Weird. I loaded this bullet in my .30-06 at around 2870 fps and shot a lot of pigs with it. They usually exited. I bought the bullets about 12-14 years go though. Maybe Sierra have changed them.

Yup.

I re-read the OP and can't figure out why anyone would deliberately shoot game like that in the neck or shoulder. Any expanding bullet is going to futz up a lot of eating meat, the HPGK maybe more than most.

Hit 'em at the top of the heart, just behind the shoulder and you instantly unplug all the hoses that carry oxygen to the rest of the body. You also get blood on the ground quickly, unlike high lung shots that don't leak all that much, even with two holes. Even with no heart and lungs, a deer can go 50-100 yards, but a low chest shot will paint the ground red all the way.

In 1998 I had 180 Gamekings out of a 300 win. mag. come apart on a couple of Whitetails, both at close range. I called Sierra and the 165 hpbt was what the guy I talked to recommended even over the 180 Pro hunter. I never did use it went to the Partion.

It was around 1975/1976 that I first tried that 156 gr. GKHPBT bullet. I forget what the load was but it was close to max in the 30-06 I had at the time. Very accurate. Opening day of deer season about noontime we were moving to a different location when I spotted a coyote trotting along about 200 yards out. Told my buddy to stop and took the shot hosting that "yote" solidly behind the shoulder. Doggone thing literally came unglued. Two major pieces and a lot of scatter. Decided right then and there I was not gonna use it for deer. Frankly, I don't think a hand grenade would have done much more damage.
Paul B.

They hold together much better at long range, or slow them down to 26 - 2700 if inside 100 yds.

I tried them about 20 years ago in 308. They were the most destructive bullets I have used, including others in 300 and 7 mm mags. After about 6 deer I quit using them. I have seen many posters with different experiences, but I have actually seen a hair and blood fog fly out the offside on lung shots.

I don't get why people continue to use hand grenades, when there are really good bullets to use. You do not need bench rest accuracy from a hunting bullet and there are really good, durable bullets now, that don't frag so badly.

It is your dime and your hunt, but I will take a bullet that stays together any day over a problematic one. I do not like Sierras, unless I want to punch targets. I loaded them once for deer (165 game king, .308) and will not make that mistake again. They are not in-expensive, either.

After exploding a couple of chest cavities with 165 hpbt's years ago with stiff .30-06 loads, I simply dropped muzzle velocity down to heavy .30-30 velocities and all was good, eastern woods distances. Manly? Hah!! Who cares. It solved the problem and allowed my continued use of a crazy accurate bullet and stopped ruining a bucket full of meat every time I pulled the trigger. It remains my favorite .30 bullet, when I stoop to using jacketed bullets.

You guys must be doing something wrong. According to my Sierra manual, the 165 Gameking hollow point is their tough bullet best at magnum velocities.

It's perhaps the best they have to offer for that application, but my experience is that they will fail at magnum velocities and close range.


This is good advice:

The OP was about 308 velocities already.

I used to load these over 55 grains of IMR4350 in a 30-06 Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle. Probably took over 50 whitetails with that load from 30 feet to 400+ yards. All were heart/lung shots. Some were drt, but most ran 30-40 yards. I never lost an animal and never recovered a bullet. Biggest problem, and the reason I changed to Accubonds, is the really low BC of the Sierra HPBT. I also tried the 140 HPBT in a .270 and had the same problem with trajectory.

Just for the record, My load was 43.5 gr H4895 behind the bullet. Never chronographed it, but it is a max load for a .308

If directed at my post, Scott from Dallas had stated that they were best used in magnums.

I have tried them in a .300 WinMag. They were too frangible at short range.

I've had excellent results in .308s and .30-06s, though.

Perhaps the jacket has changed and is causing the OP's undesirable results. That interests me because I am near the end of the stash I had bought just a few years back. With three rifles using them, they go fast, pun unintended.

I shoot tons of Sierras at paper.

I never worry how they do on game because I have seen plenty work on animals from other peoples rifles and some of my own early in my hunting career.

I just substitute Nosler Partitions when it's time to hunt and all these issues about expansion and penetration go away.

Given the chance, I'm going to try out the 100gr .243 Pro Hunter on a deer, after I try a 90gr AB. The PH jacket is tapered and pretty heavy on the bottom. I bought a bunch of blems from Grafs and in one bag was an empty jacket, so I sectioned it.

I have tried the 100 grain Pro-Hunter.

I could not get a through and through at close range.

The Nosler 95 grain Ballistic tip will punch through.

I always liked the explosive qualities of SGK's- results were usually very quick deaths. Sometimes though, they were too explosive as I mentioned before, resulting in unacceptable meat loss. Still in all, quick deaths from a bullet that grenades inside the chest cavity trumps a pass through that means a tracking job. I don't know- six of one and a half-dozen of an other...

I like the ability to reach, and break, the far shoulder in a raking shot. That is the shot presentation I see a lot.

Otherwise, I'll agree with the "grenade" scenario. Speed and explosiveness do have noticeable effects.

I have taken over 30 head of game with the 165 gr. Sierra HPBT. All game taken at between 10 and 200 yards. At 30-06 speeds between 2800 and 2870 fps.

I have never witnessed the "grenade" scenario.

I have shot a good number of elk and mule deer with the 165 HPBT and never had an issue. These were all using the .308. I only stopped using them due to their poor BC and my obervation that when the ranges got longer, they really got blown around by the wind. Inside of 500 yards though, I found them to be extremely accurate, and deadly effective.

These 2 mule deer bucks, each took a single 165 grain HPBT Gameking behind the front shoulder, and went nowhere but down. Range was 598 yards, lasered.

Excellent!!

jackhammer-

I have NO game experience with Sierra bullets -- because -- early on in my load development I tested Sierra bullets and others. I used a LOT of different test mediums (media).

I ' never' recovered ONE Sierra bullet that held together. My testing was at 25 yds and 100 yds. I tested 6mm, 270, & 30 cals.

There were & are much better cup-core bullets that are available. Obviously the premium bullets are tougher but for deer I don't use premiums.

These are MY experiences and MY results. Sounds similar to your on game experience.

Sorry. When you hold velocity -2700 fps you don't get flat trajectory.

Jerry

The best test media is the animal you plan to hunt...

If you get to shoot enough of them. That doesn't always happen.

And if you shoot enough animals, there will always be surprises with any bullet. The surprises just aren't as common with some bullets.

I agree however there is enough testimony of Sierra failures on game in this thread that I won't have any on game Sierra tests.




Jerry

The opportunities I get on my usual hunting grounds on public land tend to be very close and I would steer away from c&c bullets in smaller calibers there. I've got ABs and E-tips for that, and have used a 100gr NP with good success. This year I have permission on a small Virginia farm that doesn't have much wooded ground, but does have some grown up fields and edge cover that offers shots at up to 200 yards or so. The PH should do well there with its heavy base jacket.

In an article on .243 game bullets, John Haviland stated that he had never caught a 6mm bullet in an animal. His son killed a pronghorn doe with a head shot, after the PH had passed through and killed a buck. Not too shabby.

Sift back through the posts and you will find many have NO experiance (which is what the OP asked for)...or little experiance with that particular bullet (the 165 gr. HPBT bullet).

G B -

Yep I understood the OP. I gave my reasons for NO on game experience. I also read every post and many testified of Sierra bullets coming apart and or excessive meat destruction.

Y'all smile and be glad that I am NO competition for Sierra bullets.


Jerry

i have killed or seen killed over twenty whitetail deer with the 150 grain sierra bullet out of the 308 winchester and never an issue and never caught one....

i am not saying their arent better bullets out there but how did you guys kill things before premium bullets came along

You talking to me? ?

Jerry

Not mentioned, this time around anyway, is that various Sierra offerings are, by design, harder than others of the same caliber and weight. Their website has, in most cases, details on the various bullets and the recommended use. The HPBT is supposed to be tougher, but they don't specify if it's due to the core hardness or jacket design. Seems logical to me that a bullet with their "double-tapered" jacket might be more reliable and consistent than one that relied only on core hardness. The PH flat-based bullets seem mostly to have the tapered jacket, but they don't make one in .308 165gr.

I'm using 165gr NBT blems for the most part these days, which are priced about the same as the GK "firsts" and have pretty plastic tips.

I'll just note that hollow-point bullets in general expand less consistently than softpoint or plastic-tipped bullets. It doesn't matter if they're very softly constructed for small varmints, or monolithics for big game. I've seen "soft" hollow-points for varmints blow up a prairie dog, and then the next bullet hit a PD standing a few feet away will just drill a hole through a dog--which stood there for a few seconds before just tipping over. Have seen the same monolithic hollow-point bullets, from the same box, expand great on a pronghorn at 400 yards, then drill right through a mule deer at 50 yards.

The only hollow-point bullets I use anymore are those like Berger Hunting VLDs, which really have a closed tip and expand because the thin tip collapses due to the big air-space inside the tip, or much tougher monolithics with BIG hollow-points to ensure expansion.

I have used the 165 HPBT for 30 years in .30/06 and .300 wby. Have whacked a boat load of deer with them. Two years ago I bought 3,000 more and began cycling thru them last year in my .30/06. I immediately began having bullets blow up on the surface and some did not exit. I actually lost a deer because the bullet blew up on the surface at 150 yards.

That led me to believe my current lot of bullets is soft. I have since pulled alL of that lot of bullets and and replacing my go-to bullet. The new bullets will be shot in my .308.

IMHO Sierra bullets in general are bottom of the heap for hunting. A shame because they generally shoot accurately in my hand loads. I'd much rather use a core-lokt or a interlock on game.

Id add I've used them on white tail, black bear, and boar...never have cared for them.

708 -

I don't know if you've read Bob Hagel's book, "Game Loads And Practical Ballistics...." but that is exactly the essence of his conclusion after testing Sierra bullets and others AND on game.

Jerry

One of the principle benefits of hanging out on this Loony Bin is access to "crowd-testing" data. The volume of experience accumulated here, once you weed out the whackdoodle noise, is pretty amazing and saves me a lot of time and trouble that might have been wasted trying to figure stuff out on my own. It's hard to come to any definite conclusion about things like bullet performance by shooting one or two deer a year, but a little browsing around the Fire will generally tell you what you want to know.

I have killed a bunch of deer with the GameKings. Never tried the hollow points.