The TTSXs are generally considered to be very accurate bullets across a spectrum of cartridges. Does anybody care to comment on comparison, or in general, the once again available TBBC bullets?

The 140's shoot great in my 270.

I'm considering the 7 mm 140 for my 284. It's a bit shorter than the same weight TTSX which is a good thing though the rifles shoots the Barnes mono- very well but have been thinking of trying the TB's to see how they fly.

I have 140's for my 7-08 as well... I've yet to shoot those.

I shot some TBBC Federal ammo in my .35 Whelen, they were very accurate. Never got the opportunity to use them on game, the 225gr. load had pretty stiff recoil as I recall.

I shot the old recipe TBBC's for years. Jack Carter originals. They were always good, but not great by any means, accuracy wise. Exceptionally good terminal performance of course. My supply started dwindling and I was looking for the next best thing. I didn't know it at the time, but I was looking at a serious upgrade when I chose Northforks. Same fantastic terminal performance, unbelievable accuracy, virtually no copper fouling.

Expansion of both TBBC's and NF's will undoubtedly be greater than a TTSX...it all depends what you want out of a bullet.

Yeah, I was wondering how the new iteration compared to the old in this department. Perhaps they are the exact same bullet as the old.

The TTSXs shoot so well (accurately) out of my 284 and I've had great success with them on game out of this and several other rifles of different calibers but every once in a while I'm bothered by what looks to me to be quite narrow wound channels. Of course the fact I could determine this would seem to make the concern mute. But...

I know it's tough in a multi-compartmented bullet to obtain perfect concentricity or nearly so; thus the question. I was not completely satisfied with the old TBBCs.

George, I should have been clear, I'm shooting the Federal Trophy Bonded Tipped Bullets, not Bear Claws.

George,

The original Bear Claws suffered from the same accuracy problems as the original Barnes X's, because of the solid, copper shank. First, they tended to really foul some bores, but if the shank diameter didn't match the bore diameter closely they also didn't shoot very well. To be honest I also wasn't entirely impressed with their terminal performance. They tended to expand into a ball, which isn't the most damaging "mushroom." I found the Federal version tended to expand more into a flat-fronted mushroom, which tends to be result in more internal damage.
However, I never saw any indication of either version ever failing to expand.

Like the Barnes TSX's, the grooved shank of the Tipped Trophy Bonded appears to have solved all the problems of the Bear Claw, including the middling ballistic coefficient. I've gotten good accuracy out of the .270, .30 and .375 bullets I've shot, but based on experience with Barnes TSX's and North Forks am not sure the nickel-plating was necessary to reduce fouling.

I believe they are constructed the same,other than the plastic tip. I love the old TBBC. The only gripe is/was the blunt tip. It would quite often hand up in my Weatherby Mrk V. The Swift A-Frames do the same. Would piss happiness if Swift would make an A-Frame spitzer or plastic tip. Sorry to say I'm just not a Barnes fan. The TBBC is one of, if not the best. Nosler, yeah, you rock as well. Getting into North Forks, will kill with it this fall. Looks promising.

I've long been a fan of the TBBC. I have friends whose survival can be directly attributed to the performance of the TBBC.

About 7 years ago, I was in a gunshop in the Florida Panhandle and talking with the owner about...guns and bullets.

The talk got around to the TBBC. I mentioned how Jack Carter had created it and the owner points to a Cape Buffalo mount on the wall and says "That's one of Jack Carter's, I bought it and some other stuff at his estate sale".

Thanks to a very generous gentleman I met here (Campfire), I have a partial box of original Jack Carter TBBC .30 cal bullets. The box is marked "Lot 1".

What a great bullet design. I'll agree, however that the Tipped Trophy Bonded are an improvement.

No Brad, I think it was I that confused the whole issue with terminology. There were the old TBBCs which I couldn't quite remember accurately (😜) and the now Fed Premium Tipped Trophy Bonded Tips (in Fed ammo and bullet components) which I referred to in my OP as TBBCs. I know now they arent exactly the same bullet.

John, thanks. I obviously couldn't quite remember the old TBBCs and that their shank wasn't grooved and they had the b.c. "about like the blunt end of a carrot" (a Clay Harveyism 😀).. like the Grand Slams and some others.

I might give 'me a try.

BufordBoone,

I knew Jack Carter, and he gave me all the Bears Claws I used early on. Believe I still have some in my "old bullet collection box." They worked extremely well in larger calibers, where their wide expansion made a huge hole, and also worked well in smaller calibers at high velocity, because the velocity tended to blow off much of the lead and thus leave a flatter mushroom, like that of TSX's and similar bullets. The slower kills I saw were with moderate-velocity, medium-caliber bullets, which often resulted in the rounded mushroom.

Here is my definitive sample of two. One TBBC 30 caliber 180 grain (300 RUM) and a 338 225 grain NF, both recovered on elk. By the way, when you look at the NF website they'll state that they have never seen a 225 grain 338 NF recovered from an elk before. I sent them that pic. The TBBC hit my biggest bull quartering on from 250 yards, or thereabouts, and after penetrating the shoulder, it lodged in the pelvic girdle just above the bladder. The NF hit the elk quartering away in the last rib, traveled diagonally through the vitals and lodged in his neck. I only found it when boning out the neck. Nice terminal performance from both bullets and classic mushrooms. Again, just a sample of two...

Those look real danged good. I have a recovered 225 TBBC from my Dad's grizzly. Looks just about like the one from your 300.. Can't beat them for heavy, tough animals in my opinion.

Guys, this is the bullet being discussed:

Brad, we are on the same page now! All my words; one pic. 😉

Thanks for that..it's a handsome little bullet isn't it.

George, strikes me as the best of all worlds. Sort of a "Partition-Accubond-TTSX."

Sure does; have some of the 140's headed my way.

I've got 130's for the 270, 140's and 160's for the 7 and 165 and 180's for the 308.... haven't shot a darned one yet. Just finished up a good load for my Mashburn so I'm itching a little to try the 160's in it. Might try the 165's in my 30-06. They do look pretty decent just sitting there.

Used the old ones and I don't expect great accuracy from any bonded bullets but usually could get them to shoot at around an inch at 100 but no worries if it was an inch in a quarter for a hunting rifle. Jack Carter used the 7mm 175 grain bullet to take a couple of buffalo on a trip with John Wooters I believe.

Haven't used the tipped version but I suspect it will only be better in all departments.

Well here's a factoid that will keep some up at night. I just received my 7 mm 140's as pictured above by Brad. Thinking they'd be shorter than the 140-gr TTSX's since they are ~ 40% lead by eyeball as opposed to the 100% mono- copper alloy,..I measured them.

The TTSX's went 1.36" and the Fed Tipped TB's went................................1.35" with my calipers.

Gee, think of the extra room I'll have in the box. 🙄 😀

I just took delivery of 250 ct of .284 140's

I shot the 165 grain TTB today in my 308 Kimber MT. 49 grains of Alliant MR-2000 (Wolf primers, LC95 match brass) produced 2855 fps, good ES and SD's. 3/4" 3 shot groups which is as good as my best 155 Scenar. Loads were 2.82" to fit the magazine

Bullets mike .3085" and you could feel it during seating. Thinking I will add another 0.3 grain with Lapua brass and use it as my new elk load this year

A 165 at 2850 with great bullet construction and decent BC don't suck.

The load data provided with the bullets shows up to 50.5 gr of MR 2000 for +2900 fps in a 24" BBL which is exactly what I load and get with the 155 Scenar in the 22" Montana.

I like this bullet.

When you say you could feel it during seating do you mean it felt snug? If they are that snug, and with load data specific to them being scarce, is pressure a concern?

I used to go in Jack's shop quite often, he was a nice man. I ran some air line piping in the shop in trade for 7mm and 30 cal. bullets. They killed anything I hit. I still have some of his bullets. I need to try some of the new ones.

No I would not be concerned as long as you work up. But yes they took a bit more pressure to seat in well prepared brass.
Could be the nickel coating or whatever the coating is.

Many bullets are slightly "oversize."

When recovering from a neck surgery I had in late 2000, I had a muzzlebrake put on a 220 Swift Mod 700. I used the then available Federal factory load with the 55gr Trophy Bonded Bearclaw. I killed mule deer/varmints in Utah, then went to Texas and killed Axis deer and a couple of really nice Blackbuck rams. It was a real killer, only recovered one bullet (axis doe) and it measured a hair over .45 caliber. The wind blew them around badly, but for a 22 centerfire, they were pure poison!

Just shot the .270 Win and the 130 grain Trophy Bonded Tip bullets.


The average was 3073 fps for the four shots.

Man, that'll hunt. Nice shooting.

Thanks Beretzs,gonna use that load for deer hunting this year.

I'm using the 165 grain in my Sako A7 308 and they are turning out to be excellent. Small groups regardless of charge weight. I'm also getting about 2850 from my most recent trip to the range. I'm really liking these bullets, Federal is gonna sell a ton of these I think.

I'll probably get some 180's for my 300 WSM later on...

Say elkman- the three shot cluster of the TBT are they also 60gr H4831SC/CCI 250? My old Belgium BAR shoots the 130NP with a similar load. I'm thinking that TBT would actually be better for elk/big hogs for a 130gr, I'll have to try them later ( if I ever get time of to go shoot!)

Those are Elk smackers for sure. I watched a friend shoot a 5x5 with one and the Elk never took a step and just folded in place. Hit in the brisket and we lost the bullet in the vicinity of the Texas Heart shot area. Big mess we didn't want to sift through. Surprising as I have seen much heavier bullets get stopped by a grass filled paunch. Proved the old 270 is plenty good enough with the right bullets.

I had a 225-gr Nos Partition from a 340 Wby stopped by a "medicine-ball" sized stomach full of the thickest pea soup in a bull jumped at about 30 yds and snap-shot at 40.

This bullet was started at 3100 fps. You don't want to hit any bull amid-ship with any bullet, especially after he's hit the buffet.

Edit: I need to correct this from a false impression and an incomplete story. We found an oblong entry hole in the hide on the right rear flank. That caused us to dig into things. Out came the Nos that had hit a twig in front of the bull and entered him side-ways and was stopped by an elks brew of about 40 lbs of grass soup.

What stopped the bull? A 338 pill from my partner that spined him.

Question for guys having shot these into animals - pondering picking up some 30 and 27 cals for my 30-06, 308, and 270 for elk. Stick with 'traditional' sizes 165 in 308, 180 in 06, 150 in 270 - or drop down a size (150/308, 165/06, 130-140/270)? They look like a hybrid TTSX and Partition.

OK guys...you say they are available...but from where????

Midway USA. Have 3 boxes in my cart now......

Thanks...was hoping to see a .22 cal....but no joy!

I finally got around to loading some of the Federal version for a 270. They were grouping 3/4 of an inch for Granddaughter yesterday. It’s an old junkie Sako made in 68. She is going to a ranch in west Texas that requires at least a 270.

That's good to know. I just dug out some 140s I bought 20 years or more ago to try.

Excellent. I think you’ll like them. I need to load some up for hunting myself.

The original Bear Claw was reasonably accurate, but had the same problem as the original Barnes X: The shank was pure copper, so fouled quite a bit, and if it didn't exactly fit the barrel of a certain rifle sometimes didn't shoot well. Pressure tended to be pretty high as well. (I knew Jack Carter and got my first TB bullets from him, and he acknowledged both problems.)

Barnes solved their problem by grooving the shank. At first Federal partially solved the Trophy Bonded fouling problem by using gilding metal (90% copper, 10% zinc) instead of pure copper. But eventually Federal used similar circumferential grooves--and also nickel-plated the bullets. This basically solved the fouling problem, and they also added the polymer tip, which also increased BC.

As a a result of all this the present Federal Trophy Bonded Tip doesn't copper-foul, resulting very good accuracy. But in my various penetration tests it resulted in the same results in penetration and retained weight as Jack Carter's original bullet.

Have been a fan since the TB Tip appeared in 2008, and in fact killed my biggest elk with the 180 from a .30-06. It worked great, but unfortunately Federal soon quit selling the bullet to handloaders, probably because of the Obama buying panic. Instead it was only available in factory ammo--until 2-3 years ago. Now, like everything else, it's rarely available due to most bullets going into factory ammo.

Am finishing up an article on handloading the .284 Winchester for HANDLOADER magazine, and the 160 TB Tip was among the most accurate bullets.

Great Bullet

"Am finishing up an article on handloading the .284 Winchester for HANDLOADER magazine"

Looking forward to reading that.

Me too, just loaded some 120 TTSX bullets for a 99, may try some 140 TP bear claws for it.

I snagged 5 boxes of federal premium 30-06 loaded with the 165g Trophy Bonded Tip. Unfortunately due to idiocy of youth, I used too many of them just to sight in and shoot [bleep], and I'm down to half a box. But, I've killed 4 deer with them so far, and recovered one bullet. All 4 deer had perfect entry and exit holes, ruinous organ damage, and the recovered round was textbook mushroom and weighed 158gr which I thought was stellar weight retention.

I got lucky enough to find a box of reloading bullets on a shelf somewhere, so I have a stash of 50x 165's in my drawer that I want to stuff into a 308 one day and see how it does.

I still have a couple of boxes of .35 Whelen TBBC 225 gr factory loads. They have been super accurate in my .35 Whelen and always produced dead critters with exit holes. My son shoots the 160 gr TBBC in his 7mm RM with similar results. Luckily, he snagged 3 boxes of old stock Federal loads last year, so good to go for a while. I load the TTSX and LRX in other calibers. Happy Trails.

If it's not been posted, here is a JB article on them.


https://www.handloadermagazine.com/trophy-bonded-tip

The 30 cal 180 gr TBT has proven very accurate for me in two 30-06 rifles. I recovered one from a MI whitetail. Range was 90 yards and MV was 2800. It was a follow up shot on the downed buck and struck him in the spine and came to rest under the skin just ahead of the shoulder. It expanded widely, though somewhat unevenly. It weighs 149 grains. One of the rifles is a bit finicky, so I picked up the last few boxes of these bullets I could find, for future use. FWIW, in that same rifle, I now know the 168 TTSX shoots at least as well. Two darned good choices in my opinion.

All of the current variations - bonded bear claw, bonded tip, and terminal ascent - are good bullets in terms of both accuracy and terminal performance. The terminal ascent and tipped versions are also fairly aerodynamic.When available those or A-Frames are my first choice for a soft depending on the exact application.

Coincidentally I went to Kesselrings today and found a bunch of “gotta have” stuff but most pertinent to this thread was an old box of Trophy Bonded Bear Claws in 140gr “Solid Shank” .277. I don’t have a .270 nor will I but I wanted the box and thought about this thread so for $5 I bought it. 😁

Thanks for posting

Well I thought I would use what I have for hunting this year so sighted in the old .270 with them. 5 shots just over an inch right where I wanted them. I thought, "This is great!" Shot to confirm on another target and the group was wider for 3. Shot another 3 shots and it was wider yet. Finally with 3 more (Slow learner sometimes) it was even wider. 3" group. I thought about the all copper shank fowling the rifle and decided to clean it. Wipe out showed quite a bit of blue on a patch. Now I need to shoot it again to see if it tightens back up.

The old one sure copper fouled. I really like the new style.

does the nickel plated bullet wear the barrel any faster than copper plated bullets?
Big Ed

So has federal stopped making the TBBC loadings?