I am looking at purchasing a new stand alone scale. Read a little on the gem 250, it sounded alright. Does any one have any suggestions on that one or any other brands?

I've had good luck with my RCBS Rangemaster digital scale. The model I have has been superseded by new ones that I don't have experience with but they seem similar to the one I have.

I have both an RCBS ChargeMaster Combo and a GemPro 250.
The RCBS is accurate to within 1/10th of a grain.
The GemPro is accurate to within 2/100ths of a grain, which is about one granule of Varget.

The Gem Pro will drive you crazy because it is so sensitive. You almost never get exactly the same reading twice, the slightest air movement will throw it off, and it frequently needs to be re-calibrated.
The RCBS 1500 scale, which can be bought separately or as attached to the Combo, is plenty accurate for anything I need and much more convenient to use.
Save up for the RCBS.

Mine is a Mettler PM600

Top of the line 20 years ago when it was new

Thanks

After reloading for over five decades, my suggestion for purchasing a digital scale is don't.

Which ones have failed you and how?

Do you still use a Lee Loader?

Heck. I was thinking about getting one of these too. There goes that idea...

222ND,

I've tried several of the "normally" priced electronic scale/measures and tend to agree with Boogaloo. None of them are more accurate than a good powder measure, and are a lot slower.

Many handloads think an e-scale will speed up their loading, but they're seating bullets in one case while the next case is filling. With a mechanical powder measure you can fill a loading tray of 50 cases, and then seat the bullets afterward in less total time that you'd load the same 50 cases with an e-scale. I've timed this more than once.

Now, if you're one of those handloaders who weighs every charge on a balance scale, then yeah, an e-scale will usually save time. But it won't be as accurate.

There are faster and more accurate e-scales, but they're essentially designed for commercial loading and cost a lot more than most handloaders want to pay.

If your intent is to use an electronic scale in place of a powder measure then I agree it's not necessary.
If you are loading a series of charges for a ladder test, weighing cases, etc. it is a huge time saver. I personally almost never use my beam scale anymore.

Well... to actually add something to the thread other than philosophical conjecture...

A tool is a tool... and I like good tools so there can be a place on a reloading bench for a good quality digital scale...sure. So if you think you need one, or just want one, then go for it...but as a reloading tool mine are in 3rd position of utility behind my balance beam scales and powder measures

Lab quality digital scales are certified to be five times more accurate than the average powder scale... that is a different level of precision so be prepared to pay for it if you want that capability...a good one will cost a grand.

All of the true lab grade scales are very sensitive, so they will tend to drift a bit on a loading bench because they are certified and designed to be used under climate controlled laboratory conditions and not subjected to environmental variations or vibrations, such as found on a typical loading bench. They are so sensitive that minute changes and vibrations will register. A lab e-scale should really have it's own bench. They experience vibration as gravity variations and that is basically what they measure,...but then that is what you are paying good money for them to do in the first place...right?

So most of the issues that reloaders tend to have with them is that they are not designed as powder measuring reloading scales in the first place.

I've had many scales over time and I am a die hard proponent of Ohaus scales in mechanical and digital formats both for excellence in manufacturing and value.

As far as capability goes, my Ohaus beam type powder scales are designated in 1/10 grain increments, and while they are only guaranteed to that specification, they are sensitive to half of that value and can be reliably utilized near that spec if you are an experienced user and have an affinity for using beam scales. But if you're not real proficient with a beam scale, the lab grade e-scales in general are easily half again more accurate than that and likely ten times more sensitive.

So powder needs to be accurately measured, but beyond that if the average reloader thinks they are gaining one iota of accuracy or any other measurable improvement in performance by measuring powder beyond 1/10 grain without also weighting brass, bullets, and primers and developing procedures to control neck tension as a part of the process, I'd say to work on that stuff first and while 1/10 gr is fine for that overall, a good e-scale will be faster.

The Chargemaster is a convenient tool and is as accurate as a powder measure, but no more. I've sent a bunch of e-scales back for warranty, including a few Chargemasters, but I still think the Chargemaster is a good tool, and I do recommend them for those who find beam scales cumbersome.

So I would have to disagree with NVHunter... that little Gem offers excellent accuracy and performance for the money, and compares to more expensive scales. The Gem is a good choice as a verification tool for the Chargemaster, and they both work much better when sitting on a marble slab...(hint)...

In fact I'd put it right up there on a marble slab next to my powder measure, my Lyman M5 and my Lee Loader.

Can anyone tell me what the most accurate mechanical powder measure would be? I've used a rcbs for a long time and seems to do the job, but if there is something appreciably better I'd get one. By the way the scale I'm looking to replace is a digital pact. I've moved about 8 times since owning it, which I'm sure led to some rough handing. That is why it is being replaced. Thanks for the input.

It's just just guesswork to make a recommendation to someone when you don't know them or what they are trying to accomplish.

For example, I have very dedicated and meticulous friends that are seriously into Long Range hunting and shooting. They throw a lot of money at this hobby. They have had a lot of equipment across their benches over the years. They can own anything they want. They all use some type of powder measure to throw slightly under weight charges by a few 10ths onto their scale pan and a powder trickler to bring the charge up to exact weight.

One guy is so meticulous he actually burned out a new barrel in load workup trying to find the best load... He has high standards. He used to use a Chargemaster and a digital scale, but now he's using primitive Lee powder dippers and a powder trickler directly onto a Gem Pro to load his LR ammo.

Why...?

Because it's faster and more convenient for him to achieve the same precision than the other methods. (Btw, the cheap plastic Lee Powder Dippers are as accurate as any measure because it's exactly the same principle...)

Anyway, there are good, better and best powder measures. Your RCBS is definitely a good one. It's accurate within design limitations and reliable. A Redding is better and folks here can argue about the best one.

But I regard them as all equally capable to deliver about the same level of precision, but with the understanding that the results depend on that little nut that is holding the handle. If you can't throw consistent charges with the RCBS then just buying a Redding may not help....it does take some practice to be consistent.

Better tools are just better tools...and I mostly prefer Redding equipment for their overall excellence, but I have a few RCBS measures and my personal results don't show any real significant difference between the two...the Hornady as well.

All of those are absolutely good enough for any loads that don't need to be weighed, but none of them are good enough for loads that do.

Also, your Pact scale is not necessarily non-functional just because you moved it around some. It should have come with check weights, so you can test your Pact to see if it still works. IIRC the Pact is a decent powder scale but only accurate to about 1/10.

The Redding scale or any beam type scale is in that same range...that was my original point.

I bought a Dillon D-Terminator electronic scale in the '80s when they first came out. still works fine today. I don't even know where any of my beam scales are anymore.

I do not weigh every charge but powder is thrown directly from my Redding match grade measure in batches, and spot checked on the Dillon. I will most likely never sit and watch a beam scale settle again.

My pact was starting to drift and give false readings last time I used it. I calibrated it quite frequently with the provided weights. I always had a forty grain ballistic tip I used for a quick check to make sure it was working without having to go through the calibration process. I'll probably buy another pact scale. My old one served me well. I haven't had a chance to finish setting up my loading bench since my last move. I'm in the process of setting it up right now.

John, when you say it won't be as accurate, do you mean repeatable accuracy? In other words if I weighed the same 55 grain bullet 100 times on an electronic scale, are you saying the E scale would show some error in X % of those measurements. Or are you saying the beam would more likely measure the weight at the correct 55 grains than the E scale? I bought a Lyman Micro Touch 1500 a few years ago and have yet to find fault in it. Sometimes it needs to "think" about a charge for a few seconds before it settles in on the weight.

I agree with some of the above. Get a scale beam to set your powder measure, then dump and run.

I have less than zero use for a digital scale or a powder measure. WAY too slow

I've fooled with three of the "average" priced e-scales, checking their weights against an accurate balance scale (checked with check-weights) and found some error in all three. Not on every charge, and not vast amounts, usually .3 grain or so in charges of 40-60 grains. But all three did it, more than rarely.

Whether that would make any difference in most handloads is another question.

Consider that all of these scales are made in China now. The various manufacturers are just putting a sticker with their name on them and marking them up, sometimes by a lot, so price in itself is not an indication of quality. Some work better than others, so it doesn't pay to be a naive consumer in this area.

Which mechanical scale would be the most user friendly?

I keep a few bullets in a jar as check weights and handle them with tweezers. They were weighed several times on an RCBS/Ohaus 10-10 triple poise scale.

I use them as check weights and have 2 or 3 that are or are near the weights I have set my RCBS Chargemaster to throw.

I have learned the hard way that an hour of warm up and calibrate each time I use the Chargemaster is a good idea.

The second weight the Chargemaster shows after the beep and count is the weight of the charge in the pan - and is as accurate as the Chargemaster spec.

Mechanical powder measures like the Redding BR-30 or Sinclair are much faster and at least as consistent for loading large quantities.

Best

I like Redding equipment and Redding as a company.

I don't think it's ever a mistake to invest in a piece of Redding equipment.

REDDING Model No. 2 Powder & Bullet Scale

Designed and manufactured with the utmost attention to accuracy and sensitivity standards. The Model 2 scale includes a magnetic dampened beam swing for extra fast readings plus, hardened and ground knife edges ride in precision milled stainless steel bearing seats that will not crack, chip or lose their alignment.

Features:
505 grain capacity
1/10 grain accuracy.
pour spout pan.
simple two counterpoise system.
1/10 grain over/under graduations.

The graduated plate at the beam pointer is marked in 1/10 grain increments for easy reading of over or under charges. This eliminates the need to move the counterpoises to check powder charge variations.

We invite you to test the Redding Model 2 Scale!

Put it side by side with any competition regardless of price. Using tweezers, drop one or two granules of powder into the pan and watch the scale beam pointer react, then do the same with our competition. Next, zero the scale properly and move the small 1/10 grain counterpoise 3/10 grain. Watch the scale beam pointer move to an indication of -3/10 grain. Try this with our competition.

Every Redding scale manufactured is individually tested and adjusted to U.S. Bureau of Standards Approved Master Weights, and guaranteed accurate to less than 1/10 grain!


Lifetime Warranty

All Redding Reloading Equipment has been carefully inspected prior to shipment and is fully warranted to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for life.


Item Details

Made in the USA

# 1

# 2

# 3

Now which is it ??

Jerry

I used a Pact II for many years. Last year it began giving erratic readings and I immediately discarded it.

I looked & at the time I couldn't find another one. I'll be getting another Pact II very soon.

Jerry

I have a couple of electronic scales. They are all very accurate according to my check weights. Here's a little secret. Leave them plugged in. One is over 20 years old and has never been unplugged. The only time it has been turned off is during a power outage. Keeping them on generates a little heat to keep any moisture in the air at bay as well

Well, you seem to have managed to miss two of my posts... perhaps the answer you seek lies somewhere therein...

I'd recommend re-reading the entire thread and if you have a specific question, I'll try to answer it.

No, I didn't miss anything. I read ALL of it.

Seems like a contradiction, THEN a 'redding' commercial, to me.

Jerry

Ok. I don't see what contradiction you're referring to, but the gear I mentioned did what it did.

The Redding info is just a copy of the actual product description from the website. I cut and pasted it here for convenience, but I think their description is right on the money.

I used a Dillon 1st generation, did not like it or trust it.
Replaced the Dillon with an Acculab 123 and really like and trust it.
HVAC breeze definitely affects reading, ultra sensitive.
6 granules of RL15 weight 0.08grains.
[img][img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4425/36436641683_31aae0f9ba_b.jpg[/img]Acculab.123.2 by Richard Porter, on Flickr[/img]
[img][img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4364/37078929512_cbd4f0fee1_b.jpg[/img]Acculab.123.1 by Richard Porter, on Flickr[/img]