Anybody else read that article by Wieland? Yikes. I have a Thumler tumbler with dry media and follow up with a water rinse to get rid of dust then blow the brass out with air and left out to dry. I always thought this was excessive but after reading the article, not!
Or you could do what I do, and don't clean your brass. Unless the stuff has been rolling around on the forest floor or the bed of your truck or a month, it just ain't needed.
Or you could do what I do, and don't clean your brass. Unless the stuff has been rolling around on the forest floor or the bed of your truck or a month, it just ain't needed.
Have not read the article yet. I still like cleaning the Hornady One Shot lube off the brass after resizing/depriming with a quick trip thru the Dillon tumbler with dry media. Do you guys just wipe of with a rag?
Got a vibrating unit I inherited, but mainly use it for dirty .38s. After all the cold-welding hoopla, necks that are dirty inside sound like a good idea.
I wipe lube on with my fingers, dip the case in the neck-lube jar with the ceramic beads, then after sizing, wipe off the case with a paper towel and 91% alcohol. Clean enough, and grit free.
I use a thumbler tumbler with steel pins, rinse, dry in the sun. Cleans like new. Picked up old crap from lease, brass that had been on the ground for years, made it like new inside and out.
I clean my brass mainly due to my not wanting to run dirty, abrasive crap in my dies. It also forces me to give the brass a good looking over. It's really not that much trouble to do...to me anyway. Just switched from the old corn cob/walnut hulls method to a Thunbler's with SS pins, and liking it so far.
I have a couple different brass cleaners. I used to clean brass after every shooting. Now, I use the wet tumbler with pins on BLack Powder Cartridge Cases and only clean other brass occasionally, but very little in the past couple of years.
I have had no need to clean my rifle brass with the exception of some .223 brass from the range. I do clean my pistol range brass. It's usually so dirty that cleaning is necessary.
I used a tumbler for years, and it was good, but I get a lot of dust buildup in the cases, which I don't like. I recently bought a steel pin tumbler, and was amazed at the amount of crud that came out of the cases. I'm a gadget freak, and like clean brass, so I clean it. Is it strictly necessary? Probably not. But do I stil do it? Sure.
Have not read the article yet. I still like cleaning the Hornady One Shot lube off the brass after resizing/depriming with a quick trip thru the Dillon tumbler with dry media. Do you guys just wipe of with a rag?
I use Lee collet neck sizing dies. No need for lube.
For the biggest part of my reloading career, I rarely ever cleaned my brass. I'd usually keep a bottle of rubbing alcohol around, and use that to put on a rag and wipe the lube off the brass after resizing it. Now days, I do things a little differently, partly because arthritis in the hands makes you change.
I use Hornady One Shot for lube, and after resizing, and I always full length resize, I put the cases in the tumbler and run them for about an hour. That cleans the lube off and shines them back up a little. Then I trim if needed, but always clean the primer pocket using the Frankford Case Prep Center.
I know a case doesn't have to be bright and shiny to use, but as I have plenty of time, I don't mind taking the extra step and cleaning them.
I like my brass to be clean. Not just because it looks nice but I also don't want gunk inside my dies. I clean my brass in an old Lyman vibrating cleaner. Then I lay a bunch on a paper towel and fold it over and roll them to clean the dust off. After I resize, I wipe off the lube the same way with either 91% alcohol or electrical contact cleaner on the towel. OCD.
It's always interesting to read about what "dirty" brass might do to dies. Of course, if you're picking brass up off the ground (either yours or somebody else's) that's one thing, but just firing brass doesn't make it very dirty.
I bought a set of RCBS .270 Winchester dies in the mid-1970's, but didn't clean my brass other than wiping it down and sometimes using fine steel wool on the necks. About a decade later I finally got a brass tumbler and started cleaning cases, though not always after every firing. Then a few years later started having trouble with cold-welding, and after doing some investigating and testing (including whether cleaning primer pockets had an effect on primer ignition or load accuracy) I quit cleaning cases, except in a very few specific instances.
Kept using those same RCBS .270 dies until just a couple years ago. They were still working fine, but had gotten so "old" looking that a magazine editor suggested they be replaced for photographic purposes, which can be a factor in my business. But I still have them, and the FL die still works great after handloading thousands of rounds for over a dozen .270's, including my very first, an extremely accurate Remington 700 ADL, which had its barrel shot out partly because it was so accurate I couldn't keep myself from shooting tiny clusters. Oh, and the RCBS die also sized the cases for another .270 that got shot out. Probably 90% of the cases it's full-length sized since the 1970's weren't new or cleaned, yet I can detect no meaningful wear on the die, and it doesn't scratch cases.
Maybe a die in some serious varmint or target caliber could get worn out by sizing "dirty" brass, but it didn't happen in this instance.
It's always interesting to read about what "dirty" brass might do to dies. Of course, if you're picking brass up off the ground (either yours or somebody else's) that's one thing, but just firing brass doesn't make it very dirty.
I bought a set of RCBS .270 Winchester dies in the mid-1970's, but didn't clean my brass other than wiping it down and sometimes using fine steel wool on the necks. About a decade later I finally got a brass tumbler and started cleaning cases, though not always after every firing. Then a few years later started having trouble with cold-welding, and after doing some investigating and testing (including whether cleaning primer pockets had an effect on primer ignition or load accuracy) I quit cleaning cases, except in a very few specific instances.
Kept using those same RCBS .270 dies until just a couple years ago. They were still working fine, but had gotten so "old" looking that a magazine editor suggested they be replaced for photographic purposes, which can be a factor in my business. But I still have them, and the FL die still works great after handloading thousands of rounds for over a dozen .270's, including my very first, an extremely accurate Remington 700 ADL, which had its barrel shot out partly because it was so accurate I couldn't keep myself from shooting tiny clusters. Oh, and the RCBS die also sized the cases for another .270 that got shot out. Probably 90% of the cases it's full-length sized since the 1970's weren't new or cleaned, yet I can detect no meaningful wear on the die, and it doesn't scratch cases.
Maybe a die in some serious varmint or target caliber could get worn out by sizing "dirty" brass, but it didn't happen in this instance.
Exactly!
If some carbon on the neck of my cases is going to ruin my dies, I need to find another die maker.
When at the range, I use a small rag with a dab of Hoppes or other similar cleaner to immediately wipe the carbon off the case neck which goes a long way towards getting the brass clean. Tumble in treated corn cob with cut up dryer sheets, then spray with One Shot, then size, wipe cases quickly with paper towel and then reload them.
It might sound crazy, but being true to my Sig Line, put all your cases in a container and cover them with Diet Coke overnight. Drain and rinse the next morning. I usually use a neck brush when rinsing them out. Then put them upside down in a loading block to dry. Clean inside and out for a dollar and just pour it down the drain. They won't be shiny, but they will be totally clean. It's too cheap and easy.
Speaking of sig lines, I no longer see them. Is this something that I, in my continuing (and losing) battle with all things computer, managed to eliminate, or is it universal?
...started cleaning cases, though not always after every firing. Then a few years later started having trouble with cold-welding, and after doing some investigating and testing (including whether cleaning primer pockets had an effect on primer ignition or load accuracy) I quit cleaning cases, except in a very few specific instances.
MD, have you written anything specific to the cold weld issues you've mentioned here? I am sure I am not alone in wanting to know more about what you experienced. I wouldn't expect you to rewrite an entire missive for those of us who may not have read every article you ever penned or wouldn't remember if we had...but a link or just a few words would be well received. TIA.
Speaking of sig lines, I no longer see them. Is this something that I, in my continuing (and losing) battle with all things computer, managed to eliminate, or is it universal?
I have a Thumblers Tumbler. Will be doing more brass today. My BR brass is thrown away after a weekend match. Only wipe them off during a match. My dies use carbide neck bushings, so I don't have a die wearing out problem. I am a gadget freak also. About once a year I round up a lot of brass and do the SS pin clean. I do like the look, but do not think it does anything to an advantage.
Mule Deer, I would also like to know more about cold welding. Did you have less problems when carbon was left in the necks? Kinda like an anti sieze agent? Cold welding more prevalent with new or squeaky clean brass?
Speaking of sig lines, I no longer see them. Is this something that I, in my continuing (and losing) battle with all things computer, managed to eliminate, or is it universal?
I can see yours.
Damn, I keep forgetting to zip back up!
Actually, that prompted me to check my settings, where I found that I somehow had chosen to not see sig lines. I don't recall every having visited that page before to make the choice to not see them. Just another mystery in my relationship with computers.
Tumbler ranks right up there with the powder trickler for space-occupation/dust collection.
LMAO!
A small spoon and a roll of paper towels have served me just fine for 58 years. I see no need to switch now, and my 58 y/o 30-06 dies somehow still work fine.
I started out using things like STP for sizing and still do sometimes, just to keep my curmudgeon factor at full tilt.
I use a stainless steel pin tumbler to clean brass now. I always hated the vibratory tumblers with corncob or walnut shells, just because of all the dust and the lead salts it carries. I switched to SS wet cleaning partly because of that, and partly because of input from a former Small Arms and Ammunition Test Director from Aberdeen Proving Ground talking about damage to barrels from carbon, and primer residue in particular. He also talked about barrel longevity and how he measured or determined that. I have high confidence in what he has to say, so that stuff pushed me over the edge into wet SS pin cleaning. I don't regret it at all.
Sounds to me like you fellas are playing around with that passing fad known as "smokeless powder".
Lord Black has standards and commandments.
#1: Thou shalt clean thy brass. #2: Every time thou dost jerk the trigger #3: Thou shalt anneal thine own cases #4: Thou shalt compress thine charge #5: Thou shalt act superior when in the company of passing fad shooters.
Yeah, and I've published information on it more than once.
My notion, totally a WAG, is that the Imperial neck lube I use before sizing should be enough "contamination" to prevent cold welding, even on new brass.
About once a year I fill a cloth bag full of various brass (mostly 223) and toss it in the washing machine with a load of clothes. Comes out nice and clean. Pour it on a baking sheet and set it out in the sun to dry.
I tend to reload/prep/size in pretty good-size batches, plus I'm not too proud to scrounge if the pickings are good. So, tumbling once or twice in a cycle is standard practice. I have trays and sifters and a squirrel cage that all nests in one compact bunch, total tumbling time "work" is maybe three minutes per setup. I ESPECIALLY like the "second go" on FL-sized batches, as lube is way cheaper than a stuck case and THAT rigmarole. I've learned that cases left lubed just mung up too fast.
That said, when I'm just NSing fired cases for a bolter, I don't bother with cleaning very often.
I like "pretty," but am more concerned with if the cases feel clean and don't attract more grunge.
Does new ammunition experience "cold welding?" I doubt it. I have some old .223 ammo that was loaded 20 or so years ago. Dang near half of them had split necks after being fired. I didn't have stainless pins back then so they had to be full of carbon. What happened? I'm thinking they cold welded.
M, I think brass, or certain lots of it, undergoes "embrittlement" over a period of years. There have been alloys, such as Zimac, that were famed for it, a whole company's worth of toy trains self-shattered. The alloy had wonderful production and finish properties, but just unglued itself. And since brass has some zinc in it, maybe its the same phenomenon.
Your Rifle Looney card is never in jeopardy if you clean fastidiously.
I decap, do the wet stainless thing, perform any annealing, trimming, chamfering, turning, sizing required and then use a vibratory tumbler with corncob pretty regularly heavily treated with liquid carnauba car wax. The last step removes all lube and remains from the previous procedures, polishes like crazy including any leftover sharp edges, but also protects the brass from tarnish and I am convinced prevents the cold welding phenomenon. Makes me feel warm inside....
About once a year I fill a cloth bag full of various brass (mostly 223) and toss it in the washing machine with a load of clothes. Comes out nice and clean. Pour it on a baking sheet and set it out in the sun to dry.
Given my relationship with water, I will not try this. I have trouble keeping it in a pond or stock tank, but no matter how many holes you drill in a plastic boat seat, there will be water in it when you sit there in the dark. It will get in a ice chest, with the lid closed, sitting in the yard, a tackle box or a a tool box. Leave your tools out while your run to town and get parts, and they will be wet when you get back. The same holes that let water into your boat while fishing, will not drain it sitting in your yard, even with the plug out. Water is mysterious stuff and I don't want it inside my rifle cases under any circumstance. miles
It's always interesting to read about what "dirty" brass might do to dies. Of course, if you're picking brass up off the ground (either yours or somebody else's) that's one thing, but just firing brass doesn't make it very dirty.
Depends what and how you're shooting I guess; almost all of my brass hits the ground, unless it's from a Ruger #1 or a revolver. I have scratched dies (yes even carbide) from dirty brass (meaning dust/dirt/whatever), and find it no significant trouble to drop cases in the tumbler with some case polish.
On the other hand, squeaky clean brass is not desirable other than for looks; I prefer to have at least some case polish or wax residue left on them after tumbling. I haven't switched to stainless pin tumbling for that reason.
Another vote for stainless steel pin tumbling. A little copper cleaner (vitamin C?), some laundry or dishwasher detergent and some Turtlewax. The Turtlewax puts an imperceptible coating on the brass that resists tarnish for years and prevents cold welding.
I'm part of the anal-retentive crowd, I guess. All my fired brass gets tumbled, then sized. For the cases using a FL sizing die, I throw the majority of them back in the tumbler to remove the sizing lube. Slowly collecting neck sizers though, and for neck sizing, I usually use graphite or nothing, and only rarely bother to do any wiping after that.
I try to police up others' brass where I shoot, which is always out in the sticks, and there is usually some varied handgun and rifle brass lying around. I stockpile and eventually sort by headstamp, then prep it and work it into the shooting mix.
When I read the article, I understood that the author started by sonic cleaning the brass. Seems a duplication of effort. A pin tumbler will clean everything, inside and out. Forget that step and save a lot of time.
Guess I like nice an shiny brass...my stuff spends a night in the tumbler, using walnut media...
I clean the carbon out of the necks with a bore brush on a pistol cleaning rod...
I lube the cases using Amzoil version of WD 40 in a blue camping frying pan..
I neck size with a Lee Collet Die.. and then if the shoulder needs bumping back I use a Redding Body Die, or pull the spindle out of a larger bore case...
such as a 308 die with the spindle removed, makes a body die for the 7/08, 260 or 243...
outer necks give a quick between the finger and thumb treatment with fine steel wool..
if I want the brass nice and shiny in a short period of time, I pour a cap full of Mineral Spirits in with the Walnut Media...
I anneal every 4th reload and also normally use less than full power loads, where my pressure is running in the range of the old Mauser cartridges or 30/30s...
I get a lot of miles out of my brass...40 plus reloads on most of my brass isn't a big deal...
Sounds to me like you fellas are playing around with that passing fad known as "smokeless powder".
Lord Black has standards and commandments.
#1: Thou shalt clean thy brass. #2: Every time thou dost jerk the trigger #3: Thou shalt anneal thine own cases #4: Thou shalt compress thine charge #5: Thou shalt act superior when in the company of passing fad shooters.
Lord Black ran the roost before smokeless (it isn't) powder (it ain't that either) was invented. But A Lot Less Smoke Granulations didn't fit on the signs.
Now here's the thing. Your mother always told you to wash your hands before supper. It was her way of helping you stay clean and (hopefully) you would not swallow unknown germy stuff at supper time. Carrying over, or carrying on, or carrying forward, or carrying out the habits of BP daze, cleaning brass was de rigueur, okay? If you want to clean your brass, go for it. What you do, behind closed doors, in the comfort of your home, is your business. It certainly doesn't hurt, unless you wash them so much that the copper wears off.
It's the same as people who shoot Remington rifles. If you want to, go ahead. Just remember that the other shooters at the range aren't laughing with you, they're laughing at you. And if that ain't a cue for a song, I don't know what is.
