Some of the old Mule Deer instruction links are now dead. There are no instructions on the dynatek web site that I can find. Looks like there used to be, but google Chrome browser now says they are not safe https://store.dyna-tek.com/Bore-Coat-Article-s/1839.htm
It seems the printed instructions no longer match the old video. Now the rifle bore is to cure 4 hours vertically with the muzzle set on an absorbent surface. I coated 5 rifles tonight, using the new written instruction in my newly arrived package. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...d-alcohol-cleaner-1-oz-aluminum-canister
In reading the instructions one thing is not clear to me: Do you dip once and run the mop back and forth three times or dip each time you run the mop back and forth? Under stand the front and back.
The video does not explicitly answer this question. Only shows how to do the back and forth motion.
Do you dip once and run the mop back and forth three times or dip each time you run the mop back and forth?
I don't have good answers. I am just noting the instructions for a first time user are not clear at this time. That was the first time I did it. Application step #5 confused me for a while. I am assuming we point the rifle down now, to keep the fluid from running into the action. I am assuming we cure 4 hours pointed straight down for even and thin coating. I am assuming if there is fluid pushed ahead and dripping when the mop comes out the muzzle, that the whole bore length got covered.
I also take a rag and make sure I removed all the DBC from outside the barrel (i.e. near the muzzle). I didn't do that once and a bit of DBC hardened there and it was difficult to get it off.
I also take a rag and make sure I removed all the DBC from outside the barrel (i.e. near the muzzle). I didn't do that once and a bit of DBC hardened there and it was difficult to get it off.
+1
I clamp my cleaned rifle in a padded vice, barrel straight down. I tape a shotgun hull to the muzzle to catch runoff product. I dip a loose fitting patch, use a slotted tip, run it back and forth as I advance it down the barrel, chamber to bore. I do that several times. I turn the gun upside down, muzzle up, block the chamber with a rag and repeat the process.
Prep is the secret. I use a Hawkeye borescope to make sure the bore is absolutely clean before starting the process.
I usually let DBC dry for a few days or until I get to the range. Sometimes it may be a week or two.
After a few shoot and clean cycles, cleaning seems to get even easier. I have premium barrels, Hart, Brux, Kreiger, etc. that just about don't foul even after a number of rounds. And, that's checking with the Hawkeye. I swap out powder residue with Wipe Out, take a peek with the scope and I'm good to go.
I clamp my cleaned rifle in a padded vice, barrel straight down. I tape a shotgun hull to the muzzle to catch runoff product. I dip a loose fitting patch, use a slotted tip, run it back and forth as I advance it down the barrel, chamber to bore. I do that several times. I turn the gun upside down, muzzle up, block the chamber with a rag and repeat the process.
Prep is the secret. I use a Hawkeye borescope to make sure the bore is absolutely clean before starting the process.
I usually let DBC dry for a few days or until I get to the range. Sometimes it may be a week or two.
After a few shoot and clean cycles, cleaning seems to get even easier. I have premium barrels, Hart, Brux, Kreiger, etc. that just about don't foul even after a number of rounds. And, that's checking with the Hawkeye. I swap out powder residue with Wipe Out, take a peek with the scope and I'm good to go.
I also take a rag and make sure I removed all the DBC from outside the barrel (i.e. near the muzzle). I didn't do that once and a bit of DBC hardened there and it was difficult to get it off.
I would like to see Mule Deer weigh in on this since he developed the original instructions. I've applied DBC both ways: dipping the mop each time I run it through the bore and dipping the mop only once at the beginning. Seems to work regardless, but I thought I had a little better results just dipping the mop once.
I clamp my cleaned rifle in a padded vice, barrel straight down. I tape a shotgun hull to the muzzle to catch runoff product. I dip a loose fitting patch, use a slotted tip, run it back and forth as I advance it down the barrel, chamber to bore. I do that several times. I turn the gun upside down, muzzle up, block the chamber with a rag and repeat the process.
Prep is the secret. I use a Hawkeye borescope to make sure the bore is absolutely clean before starting the process.
I usually let DBC dry for a few days or until I get to the range. Sometimes it may be a week or two.
After a few shoot and clean cycles, cleaning seems to get even easier. I have premium barrels, Hart, Brux, Kreiger, etc. that just about don't foul even after a number of rounds. And, that's checking with the Hawkeye. I swap out powder residue with Wipe Out, take a peek with the scope and I'm good to go.
I clamp my cleaned rifle in a padded vice, barrel straight down. I tape a shotgun hull to the muzzle to catch runoff product. I dip a loose fitting patch, use a slotted tip, run it back and forth as I advance it down the barrel, chamber to bore. I do that several times. I turn the gun upside down, muzzle up, block the chamber with a rag and repeat the process.
Prep is the secret. I use a Hawkeye borescope to make sure the bore is absolutely clean before starting the process.
I usually let DBC dry for a few days or until I get to the range. Sometimes it may be a week or two.
After a few shoot and clean cycles, cleaning seems to get even easier. I have premium barrels, Hart, Brux, Kreiger, etc. that just about don't foul even after a number of rounds. And, that's checking with the Hawkeye. I swap out powder residue with Wipe Out, take a peek with the scope and I'm good to go.
Great product.
DF
Pretty good idea, especially for a coonass!!!
Good thing I don't have sensitive feelings...
DF
You guys crack me up!
Hey Dirtfarmer My dad used to say he was a "Yankee" since he was raised around Winnsboro La In Franklin Parish.
I clamp my cleaned rifle in a padded vice, barrel straight down. I tape a shotgun hull to the muzzle to catch runoff product. I dip a loose fitting patch, use a slotted tip, run it back and forth as I advance it down the barrel, chamber to bore. I do that several times. I turn the gun upside down, muzzle up, block the chamber with a rag and repeat the process.
Prep is the secret. I use a Hawkeye borescope to make sure the bore is absolutely clean before starting the process.
I usually let DBC dry for a few days or until I get to the range. Sometimes it may be a week or two.
After a few shoot and clean cycles, cleaning seems to get even easier. I have premium barrels, Hart, Brux, Kreiger, etc. that just about don't foul even after a number of rounds. And, that's checking with the Hawkeye. I swap out powder residue with Wipe Out, take a peek with the scope and I'm good to go.
Great product.
DF
Pretty good idea, especially for a coonass!!!
Good thing I don't have sensitive feelings...
DF
You guys crack me up!
Hey Dirtfarmer My dad used to day he was a "Yankee" since he was raised around Winnsboro La In Franklin Parish.
Real Cajuns would say that about anyone north of I-10...
Chamber an empty case and apply DBC from the muzzle end.
I like a rag better. DBC can find it's way around the case into the chamber. I don't want that stuff in my action. Even with a rag, I swab out the chamber, although I've heard it's not that big a problem.
Chamber an empty case and apply DBC from the muzzle end.
I like a rag better. DBC can find it's way around the case into the chamber. I don't want that stuff in my action. Even with a rag, I swab out the chamber, although I've heard it's not that big a problem.
DF
Nope, it's not a problem at all. I typically do nothing to clean up any DBC that gets in my chambers, and it always comes out with the first few rounds fired, as white residue on the brass that easily wipes off.
How do you coat a barrel that you can only access from the muzzle?
Like a muzzle loader?
I'd remove the breech plug.
DF
Like a M1 Garand. Empty case sounds good, but a fail. Won't seal against the thin liquid that is DBC.
Doesn't need to seal, it just needs to prevent the majority from entering the chamber. A little bit in there won't hurt at all. I've done it many times and never an issue.
DBC in the chamber won't "cure" hard, like it does in the bore due to the powder heat and pressure of the passing bullet. If it bothers somebody, a shotgun bore brush of the appropriate diameter will easily remove it.
How do you coat a barrel that you can only access from the muzzle?
You put it in from the barrel side and run it down - I did it to my Lyman GPR and WOW !
What i did was to make sure it was "wet" with a damp mop, and worked it back and forth from the chamber on up, then I did it again but to make sure it was damp I poured a bit more down the bore onto the mop when it was at the bottom of the barrel, then I worked it up the bore again.
With my GPR I used to get a hard 3rd shot seated without swabbing, #4 was just plain dangerous.
Now that pattern occurs at the 8th shot - in fact if I leave the cap on after firing and seat the ball too fast sometimes it will move the bullet up the bore from the air pressure. Pretty wild.
I just cleaned all my shotgun barrels so I can coat them as well - some of the duck hunters found out that you get better patterns when the wads aren't getting yanked by fouling. If it's anything like my experience with my GPR ... I'm all over it.
No reason not to coat a new barrel, though you'll still need to thoroughly clean it to bare steel. It's usually much easier when they're new and only have a couple of proof shots fired through them.
Thanks.... I have mostly been using foaming bore cleaners the past several years. I'm thinking a more aggressive copper solvent might be called for to be sure I get to bare steel.... Suggestions?
Thanks.... I have mostly been using foaming bore cleaners the past several years. I'm thinking a more aggressive copper solvent might be called for to be sure I get to bare steel.... Suggestions?
Depends on how bad it is. It can take a LOT of work to get a heavily fouled barrel clean down to the steel. And, a borescope really helps.
With a heavily fouled barrel, I'd do a series of soaks with Wipe Out or Patch Out, may even need the Accelerator, but IIRC, they don't recommend over night with that one. JB Paste may be needed. Lots of work, but it's gotta be really clean, not just no blue patches.
After treatment and a few shoot and clean cycles, cleaning seems to get easier.
As far as new barrels are concerned, mine all get it, even top end premium tubes.
Can't hurt, can only help. I have premium barrels that after extended range time, clean perfectly with a patch or two of Patch Out. And that's borescope clean with no fouling in sight. They won't all do that. Others may take a bit more effort, but are much easier to clean post treatment than before.
After two or three shoot/clean cycles, the DBC treated bore gets even easier to clean. I never use a brush following DBC, just soak with a good cleaner like Wipe Out.
I have premium barrels so treated that just about don't foul. I'll see some carbon residue, minimal to no copper fouling and that's thru the Hawkeye.
After two or three shoot/clean cycles, the DBC treated bore gets even easier to clean. I never use a brush following DBC, just soak with a good cleaner like Wipe Out.
I have premium barrels so treated that just about don't foul. I'll see some carbon residue, minimal to no copper fouling and that's thru the Hawkeye.
All I know is the stuff works. My primary elk rifle is a 1968 Sako 338 with a Bofors steel barrel. Before DBC you could open your own copper mine in it after a shooting session. Did the DBC trick using the old instructions and clean up is a breeze. Shot it this weekend and after this fall's elk hunt and this weekend's shooting it was time. 2 hours with Wipe Out and three patches had her clean as a whistle. Love DBC.
And each gunsmith--and some barrel makers and gunsmiths say it isn't necessary.
Plus, I do know a couple of custom gunsmiths who list a break-in technique on their website, even though they don't believe it's necessary. But so many of their customers kept asking about a break-in technique--with many getting huffy when the 'smiths said it wasn't necessary--that they finally caved, just to avoid answering phone calls and e-mails that often ended up in arguments with their customers.
I know how to work as a consulting engineer and I know how to hire and supervise engineers. I own zillions of rifles and barrels I put on them from Hart, Lilja, Shilen, Bartlein, Krieger, PacNor, Lothar Walther, Benchmark, etc. If I were my own boss, I would fire me for not being able to quantitatively demonstrate how Moly is helping or hurting me over the last 16 years. I would also be fired for a lot of other accuracy related rituals that I can only justify with a hunch.
The trouble is that controlled experiments in accuracy take too much time, money, effort, and skill for the individual. Even if we did that, individual human beings are not very logical: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias
MD's write up in the latest Rifle magazine is a very worthwhile read. Buy the magazine just for that article.
Bugger,
I see you just posted this the other day. What issue of Rifle are you referring too as they come a month or more in advance of the month on the cover it seems. March issue I have has his article on "Parts Rifles".
Thanks in advance for your help.
OOPS. My bad, I found the issue in question, arrived the other day with other stuff and got overlooked. As this lady was fond of saying:
My system [loosly based on Walt Berger's system 18 years ago] is: 1) Moly coat the bullets, not in a medium, but in a plastic container put in the Thumler's Tumbler. 2) Bore coat the barrels and fire them a few times. 3) Clean bore with powder solvent on a patch. 4) Dry patch 5) KG12 on a patch 6) wait 5 minutes 7) Dry patch. 8) 20 strokes (Kroil and Flitz) or (Witches Brew) on a bronze brush (of diameter greater than groove diameter, check brush diameter often.) 9) wait 5 minutes 10) 20 strokes (Kroil and Flitz) or (Witches Brew) on a bronze brush (of diameter greater than groove diameter, check brush diameter often.) 11) Alcohol on a patch 12) dry patch 13) Inspect bore at muzzle with magnification and a light. 14) If an Copper is seen return to step 5), if perfectly clean return to shooting
My system does not have believe in break in to do it.
After cleaning and prior to applying Dyna-Tek bore coat do any of you patch with alcohol or another light solvent to remove residual traces of cleaning solvents/solutions?
I think stuff like the Dyna Tek products are required by federal law to have current MSDS sheets for their products for your viewing pleasure and protection. Look up that document and you will find out what is in it.
I used it once on a hard-fouling 264 Win Mag. 1) Was uncertain if I was correctly following "instructions" (PS If your product requires precision to be successful, then create precise instructions); 2) no noticed reduction in fouling.
When I have to reapply (which isn't often) I clean the bore with a strong oil-based copper solvent, then thoroughly degrease with acetone, which works just as well as alcohol but evaporates quicker.
Mentioned on one of these threads before that the metal canisters used in the past few years preserve DBC much longer than the plastic canisters used for a while, even without refrigeration.
Hey John, let’s put this sh*t to rest. Put up a contact with the company for support. I’ve sent 5 emails & over 25 business days no response as to whether they even support the product. Sh*t S&W which I consider piss poor CS only took 5 business days to tell me that they didn’t support that anymore. Never have waited that long except when they don’t. Give me a good contact and I will shut the hell up.
Jordan, post mortem is one of your best suits but since you decided to sh*t on me after the fact, where the f*ck were you and all the others when I asked questions back in August. I do appreciate the post mortem post info. But right now it’s helps like pissing into the wind. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ore-mops-and-dyna-bore-coat#Post13091212
Jordan, post mortem is one of your best suits but since you decided to sh*t on me after the fact, where the f*ck were you and all the others when I asked questions back in August. I do appreciate the post mortem post info. But right now it’s helps like pissing into the wind. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ore-mops-and-dyna-bore-coat#Post13091212
Not sure what you’re talking about. Link to what I said that you took offense to? I just dug out the documents and scanned them today, to try and offer some help to those looking for detailed instructions.
IME, the few times I’ve seen DBC not work as advertised, it was because of installer error. Not saying you don’t have something else going on, that’s just been my observation and was likely my assumption when I initially read your thread.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I dont get to crazy procedure wise when installing DBK. Starting with a perfectly clean barrel I run a loose bore mop through the barrel several times, wipe any excess off the muzzle, let it dry for at least 24 hours or until I shoot the gun and that's about it. I am completely sold on the stuff. Especially for my varmint rifles. I have 500 rounds through my rem 700 VS 223 Rem prairie dog gun without cleaning. I shot it on paper the other day and it's still shooting great. Same story with my CZ 527 204 Ruger.
I have also gotten away from the break in a new barrel thing.
I read John’s first article on this stuff, years ago. I’ve never used it, and didn’t know, until seeing this thread, that it had caught on so well. Seems like I recall in John’s initial article, that the application procedure for bores over 30 caliber might be a little different. Is this true, or is my head full of cobwebs? I think I might like to try coating a few medium to large bores. Thanks
What I recall is to swab it 4 times and let it sit horizontally and rotate it 45 degrees each time you let it sit. Be sure to plug the chamber.
I intentionally did the chamber and would only recommend this for use in severe weather. It acts like an oily bore, I will use JB and steel wool to remove some and to get circumferential scratches.
I dipped every time . I recently did an old 38-55 lever Winchester, with dark bore, from the muzzle.Stuffed the action with paper towels.I cleaned the barrel with several a different solvents and brush and used JB bore paste.When the patches came out clean or darn close , I degreased and applied the DT with a mop. Let it set overnight muzzle down and then fired about a dozen rounds thru it.. I cleaned it again for about 45 minutes and took it to the range again after a few days
Another 30 rounds and I wasn't getting any key holeing which I expect was from really excessive lead fouling. However it did take me another 30minutes to clean and I gave up when patches were still showing some signs . Email to Muledeer and he said it should get better.
Time will tell and I need to get some bigger diameter cast bullets.
A friend made the same mistake way back when the compound was gray, not clear. I took it out of his chamber with a bronze bore-brush, spun with a drill motor. Since the silica in the compound only melts under the high heat of by powder gas, the only thing that hardens inside the chamber is the liquid glue carrying the silica. The bore-brush took it right out, as could be clearly seen in my bore-scope.
I had some DBC left over that I decided to use on a factory-fresh Pedersoli Brown Bess.
My goodness! It was impressive. At first firing, I never saw so much crud come out with just a spit patch. Final cleanup was a breeze as well-- no need for a bronze brush.
Mule Deer your writings got me into DBC. Have you been using any other coatings since DBC seems to no longer be available? I’d be very interested in your testing results and what if any other bore coatings you’re using now.
Haven't tried any others--partly because I use a lot of powders that include decoppering agents these days, and all the rifles I have that benefitted from DBC have already been treated.
My guess is neither Brownells or MidwayUSA sold enough DBC to make it worthwhile for them--or Dyna-Tek. This is probably also due to another factor: DBC works really well and lasts a long time after being installed.
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