There are some obvious choices but to get all the data together would be a daunting task. As soon as you name something as flattest someone else will come up with a different bullet combo that will out do it. I know trajectory is only one item for mid to longer ranges and that it is almost moot for scope dialers and long range target shooting but for point and shoot types I am curious about the rankings. To put it another way which cartridges are better for this than the 257 Weatherby?

6.5 Weatherby is flatter, I believe. So is the 30-378.

Is the 26 Nosler flatter?

My buddy shoots a 300 rum throwing 165's at 3450.. its pretty flat shooting.

Easy way to compare. Well, easy theory, lots of separate lookups and calcs.

Look up the highest BC's of each company's hunting bullets, then run the numbers in a calculator that shows mid-range trajectory or max height over line of sight with each sighted in at 500 yards. Plug in muzzle velocities commensurate with those possible from different rounds. Lowest midrange or max height trajectory wins. You can then juggle the sight in range to get your best point blank range or most useful trajectory for whatever species of game you're after.

Obviously real world results may vary the calculated numbers a tad but at least you'd be comparing each bullet and velocity combination on a level playing field.

270 Weatherby is good. You will find all of the Magnums are pretty close in drop. It is how much energy you want at 500 yds

Was going to say ... with like bullets (ex 110 accubond vs 140 accubond ) ... the 270 Weatherby basically matches ballistics with the 257 Weatherby, and gives the benefit of more bullet weight / energy .

375 Warlord?

IF you're trying to stick around the 257 W, I'd think the 28 Nosler, or 7RUM would be fairly good/similar with the good 120 class bullets that are available. I haven't compared the numbers w/ the 257 however.

Gun gackery for sure but I am trying to talk myself out of getting another hot rod cartridge. The 25-06 only gives up about two inches to the 257 Weatherby and others like 7RM with light bullets almost match it. Then there is the 26 Nosler, 7RUM and 6.5x300 which out class the 257 but I want more than 500 rounds out of the barrel, so I am conflicted.

375 Warlord is a bit much for 100 lb. whitetails but would be fun. If that's not enough the 50 BMG doe's pretty well.

if I am hunting deer or antelope I still prefer a 257 weatherby mag has little recoil,but if I am hunting elk 300 win mag but the better cartridge would be a 338 lapau for elk but I want a break on the lapau 338.

The 6.5-300 Weatherby wins the prize.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html


Work for it. Play with it.

Precious few medium game cartridges have a flatter trajectory ( or smallest deviation from line of sight) then a .257 wby when shooting 80 TTSX at full giddyup. I have a .300 win mag that shoots decent with 130gr TTSXs and Rel 17, and at 3650 they fly pretty darn flat also. I imagine a .270WBY and the light TTSXs for a 6.8 at full useful speed would require very little correction to 500. The wind will blow these around a bit though.

do you need THE flattest? I'd put together a great shooting 25-06 or 257 W and call it good!

I'm going to slum a 6.5x47 with a scope with repeatable turrets. Been there and got the tee shirt on fast rigs. Still like my 7mm Remington but its going back to lobbing 195s next year.

IMO - With any 243, 6.5, 7 mm, 30 caliber cartridge it becomes a question of how much powder do you want to burn and how much recoil do you want to endure. Choose any of them in a chambering you like with a recoil level that you can comfortably handle and go with it.
In my experience the less the recoil the better one can shoot.

drover

Out of curiosity, why the flattest? Dialing elevation or holding over with a decent reticle solves the gravity problem. Wind on the other hand, IMO, is the challenge. High BC’s on the bullets for whatever cartridge you choose would be where I would be looking for 500 yard shots. That’s a game changer. Especially if (when) you decide to push a lot farther than that.

BTW - I’m a big .257 Weatherby fan, even though I haven’t owned or shot one in almost 10 years. Before rangefinders that was my go to.

I am resisting going high tech on the ranging and dialing. I want to feel connected to what I shoot in the same county. But especially in S. Tex. you have about five seconds to judge an animal and shoot before it crosses a sendero. Ranges can be 40 to 800 yards and there is no time for ranging and dialing hence the point and shoot. If you can aim at hair at unknown ranges to 300+++ it is a big advantage. Most of this is mental masturbation and and excuse for another rifle.

I believe in the pie plate theory for hunting rifles. If ability, trajectory, and windage allow you to hit a pie plate consistently regardless if the range is 100 or 5000 that is your effective range.

Let the gackery continue please.

Sounds like a great reason to me.

The 270 with a 110 gr bullet pushes over 3500 fps and is a great non magnum flat shooting load


Trystan

................Read your last post as well....................Because you have gotten and will get different answers, the only real way to truly discover the answer to your question is to go through the daunting task (lol) of getting comfortable and then settling onto a downrange ballistics table which is what you are trying to avoid. Yup...Alot of work and research. You are going to have to see the downrange #s on a graph for proper comparisons.

Imo, the following should be on the list, not only out to 500 yards but beyond 500 as well for better retained velocities, energy and trajectories. The faster 6.5s with great bullet BCs and better resistance to wind drifts are a good place to start, then followed by a fast 270, the fast 7s and then the fastest 30s. Then it becomes a matter of recoil tolerance, expense etc and etc.

Tops in the 6.5 mm dept are the 6.5/300 Weatherby followed by the 26 Nosler...........In the 270 dept, the 270 Wby reigns supreme. In the 7mm dept; the 28 Nosler, 7 RUM/STW, 7mm Wby.........For the 30s; 30-378 Wby, 300 RUM, 300 Wby.

So you compare all of the above and then take the best 6.5, the 270 Wby, the top 7 and the top 30 and then compare them on a graph using the hunting bullets of varying bullet weights with the best BCs that each offer and then see how they compare to the 257 Wby.

Then you will have your true and correct answer rather than relying on opinion.

There's always the favored 50 BMG necked down to 6.5 -- AI of course.

to be honest when I build a rifle and use it to hunt with and do kinda think and use this for my answer too ? what caliber is fast and flat and can I buy shells someplace if I loose,run out or forget my shells at home ? then it just goes back to a Remington 7 mag that I do not use,plain jane 270 winchester or just my trusty old 257 weatherby mag and my vote will be for me 257 weatherby mag and even this cartridge might be hard to find at a store ?

270 Weatherby

I don't recommend pulling off a snap shot at animals over 400, even with some behemoth overbore. Seems like an opportunity for a rodeo. Long shots require a precision that takes a few breaths and more than a few seconds to get right.

WHAT ABOUT THE 270 WSM

BC and speed. Find the bullet (for the intended game) with the best BC and match it to a case that breathes the most fire. I'm not a magnum fan for the shooting or hunting that I do....especially when putting a lot of lead down range....but if you want flattest then BC and speed.

These days with Reloder 26 the 270 win equals the wsm. The Weatherby might be a better choice but squeaking out the last bit of velocity really isn't the answer. Personally, it would have to be a chambering that works well put of a 22" or shorter barrel. That eliminates many. What about a .280 Rem ?

I knew a guy that had a wildcat round, it was a .25/300 Weatherby. That thing should have been flat.

257 Weatherby, the 7 STW and those Lazzeroni? Rounds. I wonder what ever happened to his line of rifles and cartridges, we don't hear much about them anymore.

I just shot an antelope at 470 with my 257 Wby and it was DRT full penetration with a 100 gr. TSX. My buddy said he saw a puff of hair and then feet in the air.

17-50BMG, duh.

.[/quote]
I don't recommend pulling off a snap shot at animals over 400, even with some behemoth overbore. Seems like an opportunity for a rodeo. Long shots require a precision that takes a few breaths and more than a few seconds to get right.[/quote]

I agree and I usually can pre-range a marker at 350 or 400 and that is my limit unless I can stop the buck and settle in to the shot. Tough passing on a twelve pointer within your scope but the cross hairs just didn't settle in enough to be sure. Basically what has worked and I probably should stick with it is any bullet with a 400+ BC and around 3200 fps.
The 25-06, 270 WSM, 280AI, 7RM & 300WM all do this with my loads. Working up R26 loads for the 243 and 6AI that should fit the bill with 95-110 grain bullets.

Yeah, after digging a bit, I stand by the 6.5-300 Wby and the 30-378 Wby for flattest-shooting to 500 in factory cartridges. I don't know why one would want either for Texas deer, but it's not my money.

A super-fast 22 cal twisted at 7 to 8 and shooting 68-75gr would not be amiss for said use either. A 22-250 Ackley or 22-308 (Cheetah?) or Swift would be pretty flat, with low recoil.

A wildcat 6 on a magnum case would shoot damn flat, and spun for 105's, it would be quite effective. A twist to stabilize the 115's would give you a LR sweetie.

Tejano,
You said it best, "Most of this is mental masturbation and and excuse for another rifle." I'm about to pull the trigger on a lever action 45-70. This rifle is the exact opposite of what I shoot seemingly daily (I'm a LR guy). However, lever actions have a special place in my heart. Ballistics suck, it meets none of my shooting needs, and has almost no utility. Will I buy it? Yep. It might get looked at more than shot, but emotion and nostalgia can trump utility. At the end of the day, I'll be happy to have a 45-70 in the safe. You only have to please yourself.

22-284
243 Catbird
257 STW
Scramjet
270 STW
27 Nosler
Firebird
Warbird

Lots of very "flat" cartridge choices out there...

26 Nosler or 6.5 Weatherby can push a 100 or 108 grain Scenar 4000fps+. The BC is .425 - .454. 1.8" high at about 180yds (100 and 300yd zero) and 5" low AND STILL doing 3000fps+ at 400yds

Damn.......

A hunting partner was using a guide gun in a stand near me, he miscalculated the range and the bullet hit at the deer's feet. 400 yards instead of the 300 he thought. A 45-70 would be great for walking around but the brush is so thick one jump and the deer is safe. If I had access for the entire season a 45-70 would be a lot of fun to hunt with but if I really want to harvest a deer it would be too limiting. We only get to hunt 4-8 days at this place typically due to our schedules.

Another reason for wanting a fast but maybe not the fastest cartridge is most of the deer will be moving at a fast walk to a run. Very hard for me to add lead, hold over and wind simultaneously. Typically I will aim as far forward as possible but still on the vitals. Hits then can be anywhere from point of aim to a couple of ribs back if the deer is moving fast. This has worked so far with only one shot hitting on the wrong side of the diafram. Actually the shot was ok it was shrapnel and secondary projectiles that broke the diafram.

When I really think about it the super boomers may only gain me 20-50 yards over the mediums I shoot now and may encourage me to take riskier shots so could be counter productive. The 6AI may be the one and hold off on anything past about 375 unless stationary.

I think you are just fine with your current rounds/loads. Odds are, you will end up killing deer at much closer ranges than you will "get opportunity" for further out! I love the .257 Weatherby, but the 25-06 gives up very little to it, as you know. I knew some 25-06 shooters in Texas ( years ago) and they all used the 87gr Hornady spire point. I had a 6mm/284 set up with the 90 NBT one year. I shot "at" an antelope doe at a lasered 527yds away. I was prone, I knew where to hold from practice, but that wind! She couldn't tell where the shots were coming from so just stood there I I shot 5 times! The wind blew it left/right/over her/under her! I quit before I gut shot the poor thing. I then drove around to a little secret valley I knew of on that ranch and popped one at 150yds! "Resist" the money pit of trying beat what you already have...all top flight rounds in their own right! ha

Answer is obvious, the B-29!

I'll take a 30/30 with a good turret scope and MOA bases over a set and forget 257 Weatherby if I was betting money.

Well as is so often the case, the answers are easy but the question is complex.

No "flat shooting round" is better than any other if you shoot to a range you need to compensate.
You see, if you need to dial it in, you dial it in. If that's 7 clicks or 13 clicks, you dial it into your sight or scope and you hold on target.

If you have to hold high, it matters not if you hold over 7 inches of 13 inches. You still hold over.
So the holding is the important factor, not the flight of the bullet. If you are shooting far enough to need to hold up, you need to hold steady. If you can hold, the amount you hold is just what you hold. The gun and the shell don't know or care. Neither does the game animal or the enemy.

The American shooting industry is super good at getting people to look at the gear and goodies offered for sale, instead of looking at reality. The reality is simply that the hit is going to be made by the good marksman, and the poor marksman should not shoot that far. Buying the super fast slick uber-magnum and shooting it off a bench rest is counterproductive to hunters. It limits your ability to actually do the holding because of the fact that you are not practicing realistically. And shooting all those rounds from a rest will never allow your skill level to increase because you are not doing the holing. The rest and the gadgets are.

A man who can shoot tiny groups from a rest is not as good at bringing home the meat as the one that can shoot 2 MOA on demand without a rest. Those that can hold 2-3 MOA without the bench (or some type of rest you don't carry in the field) nearly always bring home the meat. I can't count the number of hunters I have seen in my 45 years of guiding who were wonderful "bench shooters" and still could not shoot well enough to make consistent kills without their bench rest of gadgets.
As recently as last year I saw a man fiddle around with the "gun-garbage" on his rifle and make so much movement and take so much time that he didn't kill his deer, and wounded 2 antelope. We got both antelope in second shots and 3rd shots, but never did get him a deer and the shot that he was to take was only 155 yards according to the laser. His gun was an uber magnum too (7MM STW)

7 years ago I was hunting with a friend who was with me while I also had a license and we agreed that neither one would wait on the other if we got into the white-tails. I had my Ruger #1 9.3X74R and he had a 6.5 Ackley Improved with a super scope (6X-18X) We got into a herd of deer on the river. He went prone and deployed his by-pod and could not see over the grass so he then started to go for a log to rest over, had to re-fold the bi-pod, screw around with his scope and so on------ and after all that the deer started to move off. I shouldered my Ruger #1 and fired one shot, killing my buck. He never shot. He told me "I just could not get into position"
My position was standing up on my hind legs like a man. I shot at the buck with about 18" of lead as it ran from my left to right. Bullet hit it in the middle of the chest. The deer staggered and went about 10 yards and fell.

My hunting friend can shoot his 6.5 A.I. out to 600 yards, and makes hits of targets all the time. If he has "all the time" that is. He's been trying to convince me for years now I need a 6.5 MM and a load that goes over 3000 fps to hunt with, and lord forbid I use a low powered scope. All "real" hunters need a scope of at least 12X.......right?

My #1 has a 1.5X -4x on it. That buck was killed with the scope set at 2X

But my unfortunate friend only brings home meat every other year or so, and some years he doesn't get anything.
He has all the latest and greatest goodies the gun-rags tell him will make him a much better shot, but yet he doesn't get much meat in his freezer.
Why?
He is very concerned with what's fastest, has the best BC, has the clearest optics, has the "best synthetic stock" has the best by-pod, lightest trigger and so on and so on and so on.
Everything is important...... except for going out with a bare rifle and a lot of ammo and just learning to shoot.

So guys, my opinion is just that.... My opinion.

But I have about 5 decades of experience behind my opinion and I have come to a place in my life where I see salesmanship as exactly that. An attempt to see me a product. In every case I can think of now for the last 40 years or so, all those products are not something I need, and when I have tried them I found they are not even something I want.

So what the flattest shooting rifle shell......?

Correct answer:
It doesn't matter!

As soon as you start hold higher YOU have to HOLD higher, so the amount you hold up is not "known" by the cartridge It's 100% in your lap, and YOU have to shoot, not your cartridge.

It's the man..not the gun.

IMO. It doesn't matter what kind of flat shooting rifle you have if you don't shoot/practice enough at 500 yards.
small things seem to add up after 400 yards.

Windage?

I've been through this exercise. You can find an oddball cartridge that's theoretically superior to other oddball cartridges, but then you have to build a rifle for it. Once that rifle is in your hands, maybe you find out that it comes up 1-200 fps short no matter how many rabbits you pull out of the hat at the loading bench, and suddenly it's no better than any of several others. Or maybe you burn out the throat in load development and accuracy goes out the window. Or maybe someone discontinues the one component that it takes to make your specific rifle shoot the way you want.

Instead, I'd look long and hard for something you can buy locally, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, that doesn't devour barrel throats, and that doesn't detach your retinas in recoil. Kinda makes me think of the 270 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum, or 257 Weatherby Magnum...



If you're not sure, then shouldn't you pass up the shot no matter which rifle or cartridge you choose?


Okie John

The Yetti,

Good to hear somebody recognizes the revolutionary advantages of the B-29!

And the winner is by a landslide the B-29 or is that BS-29?

6.5 x 300 was looking good but I am already doing 3200 with a 140 in three other cartridges. Still wan't another 257 Weatherby but don't really need one however the Whitaker special #1 with a 28 inch barrel would be sweet. So stay where I'm at, learn to dial in or what's the third choice? Dots or BDC helps and will be using both this year but the real answer is hunt more so I get opportunities within my preferred window. Not moving too fast and within 400 yards preferably 300.

500 yards...

When I was 12 years old, with my '06, I figured out if I wanted to hit a deer at 450yd, I'd need to hold on the spine. Another 6" of air would get me to 500, but that was about my limit with irons, because the front sight covered up the target.

When I got my first scope it felt like cheating.

All those earlier scopes came with screw on covers to protect the adjustment dials against movement and seal the scope from rain in the field, so twisting was out. It was years later the Duplex reticle was considered a great innovation because it could be used for range estimation and with different aiming points once you knew how to use it.

With just crosshairs, at 500 yards it doesn't take any more time to hold on the top of the shoulder as it does to hold 1/3 of the way down. By comparison, Mildots have a wealth of information, but a plain crosshair is fine.

Time spent actually shooting at targets in the field goes a long way.

You could just learn how to hunt and get within sure, easy range instead of just shooting stuff in the next zip code. I hunted open farm land with lots of big open fields for 20 years with a 12 gauge slug gun. Somehow I managed to kill multiple deer with it every season.

Reminds me of a little repeated Elmer Keith (IIRC) quote, "I like to do my hunting before the shot".

It's my dream rifle! Was told you have to give up your first born to get one, but mine is 15 now and apparently there is not a big market out there for em, shoot, half of the time I'd give him away for free.... LOL

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=100&LoadID=1147

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5278 fps

Provincialism at its finest.

[/quote]You could just learn how to hunt and get within sure, easy range instead of just shooting stuff in the next zip code. [/quote]

Not trying to start a pizzin match but I have hunted with: pistols, muzzleloaders, bows, spear, atlatyl, and knife so I know what getting close is. This is just a different proposition and good fodder for gackery.

Every review of it says the 6.5-300 WB has the longest point blank range of any current factory cartridge.

The debate is over.

BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHA quote of the century!!!!

<chuckle>

Just a small comparison with three calibers and a Barnes bullet suitable to kill deer and light enough to be fast, that I could also be able to find data for easy

.257 weatherby 80 TTSX @ 3800fps max. point blank range 406 yds.
6.5-300 127 Barnes At 3435 fps max point blank range 379 yds
.30-378 weatherby 130 gr TTSX at 3800fps max. point blank range 403 yds
all figured using Barnes data and JBM ballistics calculator set for a 4" radius of vital zone and 4000 ft elev. and 40 % humidity at 59 degrees
A 100 gr TTSX may get the 6.5-300 closer to the other two but it is all close enough to not care.

My personal choice is a 147gr ELDM out of a .260 that is stupid accurate and turn dials on my SWFA, Because elevation is easy, wind is trickier here all of the above will blow around like varmint bullets.....

22-243AI with a 35 gr bullet at 5,000 ft/sec plus. Velocity beats BC every time at distances less than 500 yds. Use a Barnes bullet and you'll never catch one in a whitetail. Virtually no recoil either.
Contest over. LOL

At 500yds and under there are several contenders and you can make as much difference in trajectory with various bullets as with the shape/capacity of the case or caliber.

I think the dots are the answer with any flat shooter I will be good to close to 400 and the rest get a free pass unless they lolly gag around in the middle of a sendero. Although it is frequently windy, at deer level the brush keeps the winds down but what there are are turbulent. Wind is my only hesitation to the really light weights but velocity doe's compensate for BC some on windage at medium ranges at least. Need to check the 110s in the 270 WSM and 120's in the 7RM to see if there is much if any advantage over the 140s or other cartridge combos.

whatever you shoot, make sure it is AI so that you can add 10,000 PSI.

This is exactly why I went to the 6.5 Creedmoor.

That 40 degree shoulder automatically extends the range too. In fact the AI's gain altitude like those scope diagrams where the trajectory arches above the line of sight. Pure ballistic magic.

I suspect the 6AI will become a favorite if I ever get it finished. With 95s to 105s at 3200+ fps with R26 and a Minox BDC type reticle and I should be good to go. My max will still be 350-400 due to the jerk behind the trigger not the hardware.

Desertrat good choice I am resisting the Creed fever as my Swede would get jealous.

If you're not already using a laser range finder, scope with turrets and practicing out to 600 or further, a flatter shooting round isn't what you need. And if you are using a laser range finder, scope with turrets and practicing out to 600 or further you know that a slightly flatter trajectory really isn't a big help.

Put the money and time into what will really make a difference.

If I'm reading you right then you're off base here.

Love the 6.5s but 270 Weatherby is just so forgiving; even with 150s just kills it at 500+.

the 300 rum drops about 24-36 inches at 500 with a 200gr going 3200 fps.

7 Wby, 120 Nosler @ 3650 fps, 1/2 MOA, 24” barrel

How much more accurate or flatter would you need?

That was in the same vein as bullets going so fast they don't have time to open up.

Agreed. Going to be adding another 270 Roy here soon.

Info on what you're buying,please,340boy.

for whitetail move your stand 400 yards further down the field

Ken,
Was looking at a MK V Outfitter in 270 Wby yesterday. I like the looks of it but I need to do some research before I commit. I had a MkV UL in 270 Weatherby about 10 years ago. Killed a couple of mule deer with it but would like to pop an elk with one!

Build a STW Tim.....grin

Gotcha.

Who knows, Mike? One of these days maybe I will!

10 4. It's a flat shooting laser beam.

Out to 300 yards anything from a 308 up shoots flat enough to make hits with no hold over. Much beyond 300, certainly at 500, all of them drop enough that you need to know the exact range and use a scope with dots or dials to consistently hit with anything.

Hunting similar situations here on gas line ROWs, I've found the 257 Wby hard to beat. It's not quite as flat as some big boomers, but it has less recoil and less muzzle blast. I tried some big boomers and kept coming back to the 257. To be able to point and shoot to 400 is golden during the rut where you barely have time to shoulder the rifle before they are gone.

Scope Magic is true. Just ask Ringman.

. [/quote]
Ken,
Was looking at a MK V Outfitter in 270 Wby yesterday. I like the looks of it but I need to do some research before I commit. I had a MkV UL in 270 Weatherby about 10 years ago. Killed a couple of mule deer with it but would like to pop an elk with one![/quote]

If you build or re-barrel I would go with a 1 in 8 twist to use the newer VLDs. The 170+ bullets put the 270s in a whole new league for longer ranges. With the 110-130s it is ideal for the Sendero hunting too. Good compromise between a 257 and a 300. A little more bullet weight, doesn't give up much in trajectory and a lot easier to shoot than the 300.