I was at the range today with my Howa 1500 6.5 CM , a few times the bolt got stuck and it took many attempts to get it free.
is there an easy way of doing this and what is causing it ?
thanks in advance P.

Factory ammo or reloads?

reloads

Sounds like the load is too hot.

Yep, I would also say most likely your load is too hot for that rifle.

Yep.

Sounds like you are loading it too hot.

Do you have ejector marks or other signs of high pressure?

What was the load you were using?

Best back off a bit.

load data is :

powder : IMR 3031 40 gr
bullet : Remington .264 dia. 140gr. PSP Core-Lock
brass : new federal

40 grains would be a top load with H4350.

You are way over max.

To hot is my take.
Neither Hodgdon or Nosler even list 3031 for a 6.5 Creed on line
and top out slower powders around 36 gr.

Quick Loads puts that load at 74,000 psi. Is that a book load?

It's in Revelations.

Step awaaaay from the reloading bench......and re-assess.

no , couldn't find data for imr3031 and 6.5 CM and used similar data for other load , I will try 35 gr next week and post the results here.
as you can see I am not experienced but learning.

don't get your experience at the cost of your face......

Due for another trip to the hospital I'd say

ROTFLMAO.........

Why would you want to get experience with a powder for which there is no Data?

In looking at a couple of loading manuals, I don’t see IMR 3031 listed with any 100 grain bullets much less with 140 gr bullets. The fastest burning powder I see is Varget and the top load with Varget is only about 36 grs. Around 40-42 grains is tops with powders with burning rate of IMR and H-4350 so your load with 40 grains of 3031 is probably well over what it should be. If you don’t have a loading manual with Creedmoor data, you need to get one.

You might want to give serious consideration to factory ammo.

Not only not experienced, you haven't displayed the ability to follow the absolute basic step of using published loads. What you did was akin to driving a windy road in the dark without headlights.

Just unbelievable...

Listen to the other posters. You’re lucky that a stuck bolt handle is all that happened.

Proves Darwin.

This. Foolhardy to the extreme.

Even experienced reloaders can make mistakes but why did you load a powder that you couldn’t find any data for? Do not shoot any more of those loads. You say “you are not experienced but learning.” Im not trying to be an ahole here but before loading anymore please learn what you are doing so your family doesn’t learn of your death or permanent disability from blowing yourself up.

Just a side note:

Besides what everybody else has already said, you should be using a chronograph.

If you had been, and saw the velocity of your first shot, you would have expected the bolt to be hard to operate before you even touched it, and you would have known exactly why.

Now you will get some experience using a bullet puller. I recommend the collet type that screws into your press.

you can use 260 Rem data, and reduce by 15%, or 10%...either will work...

actually nice to hear the Howa action will hold up to that kind of pressure and still
not hurt the shooter...

Addendum...

had time to look up the load data for the 260 using 3031 with a 140 grain bullet
max load was listed at 32.5 grains... which has a little greater powder capacity
than a Creedmoor.

This really shows something about 3031, I learned a long time ago...

when it reaches an overpressure situation, the peak pressure plateaus instead of spiking...

Persian.... you were very lucky you were using that powder, instead of another...

your load was over by 20% of book max....

if you were doing that with another powder like H 414, which pressure spikes badly...

you'd have been going to the hospital's ER... or potentially to the Morgue...

and your action, stock and scope would have been going to the junk pile, after they picked
up all the pieces....

I've seen what happens when someone had H 414 over book max by about 15%....

The action was destroyed....as was the stock and the Scope on top...

The shooter was lucky...

Personally I am glad you are safe... but you need a mentor... or need to get some
reload info... guessing will get you messed up.

You need to google what happens when you blow up an action due to over pressure before you make your next batch of reloads. You are literally playing with fire, best get educated in reloading before you wind up dead.

I'm wondering how many 74,000 psi loads can be fired in a rifle before it is no longer safe with any load.

Thanks for coffee on the keyboard, Bob.

Persiandog,

I am glad you are OK and your rifle was not damaged. Here is some data from Quickload. This is not load data tested with pressure equipment so start low and work up. I would take Seafire's advice and start somewhere around 32.5 grains.

Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264, 140, Remington PSP CoreLokt
Useable Case Capaci: 48.790 grain H2O = 3.168 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 3031

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 67 28.00 2158 1448 30091 7827 99.9 1.579
-18.0 68 28.70 2202 1507 31833 7961 100.0 1.546
-16.0 70 29.40 2244 1566 33659 8087 100.0 1.513
-14.0 72 30.10 2287 1625 35572 8211 100.0 1.482
-12.0 73 30.80 2328 1685 37574 8333 100.0 1.447
-10.0 75 31.50 2369 1745 39670 8455 100.0 1.411
-08.0 77 32.20 2409 1805 41862 8574 100.0 1.376
-06.0 78 32.90 2449 1865 44156 8693 100.0 1.342
-04.0 80 33.60 2489 1926 46555 8810 100.0 1.309
-02.0 82 34.30 2528 1987 49064 8925 100.0 1.278
+00.0 83 35.00 2567 2048 51687 9039 100.0 1.248 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 85 35.70 2605 2110 54430 9151 100.0 1.219 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 87 36.40 2643 2172 57299 9261 100.0 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 88 37.10 2681 2234 60299 9370 100.0 1.165 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 90 37.80 2718 2297 63437 9477 100.0 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 92 38.50 2756 2360 66720 9582 100.0 1.114 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 83 35.00 2632 2153 60574 8785 100.0 1.170 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 83 35.00 2469 1895 42645 9410 100.0 1.355

I bet he feels better about himself now.

thanks very much for all suggestions , I will load 20 rounds and test it next week.

Howa Tough!

Also, you need to learn to work up your loads rather than starting at the top end. Then you would have noticed that the bolt was getting sticky sooner than you did.

yes I do , I take the Darwin award but slowly learning :-)

Exactly!
It would be highly advisable to have a reputable gunsmith check for lug setback/head space. The 74,000 psi is an estimate. It could have been higher, and more than once. If the rifle chamber checks out it might also be a good idea to have the head space checked again after more rounds are fired. Once steel has been stressed beyond its working range its hard to predict when catastrophic failure will occur.

By all means step back and rethink your attitude about this stuff. Top loads are just that, not to be exceeded because beyond that point erratic results can be expected including big jumps in pressure. Changing components can add to the uncertainty.

You were lucky. Don't push your luck again if you're even mildly satisfied with your current appearance.

We once again prove that there are two kinds of people in the world, those who go to boat ramps to scoff and jeer, and those who go to help others learn.

At your experience level, how about just sticking with book loads, starting low and working up slowly. Don't develop bad habits.

Continue using 3031, or ANY other powder without following pressure tested data in your 6.5 Creed and you will likely be receiving your Darwin posthumously!

Get a couple of reloading manuals and work up a load following their pressure tested data and reloading procedures as outlined in those manuals.

READ THE DAMN MANUALS!!! Better yet, use only factory ammo. You are endangering not only yourself but anyone else who maybe near you.

Could Persiandog be a troll?? Find it hard to believe he could be as stupid as he appears to be....just don't see any learning going on here.

Persiandog,

I found some more info for you in an old IMR Manual. It has the 140 grain Remington and few others for you. The load data is for a 260 Remington which has a slightly higher case capacity so reduce it and work up.

What precisely does this mean?

I've worked with combinations that were unpublished but I've been at this a long time.

Don't tangle with differential equations before you have a handle on freshman algebra.

Actually, it is very bad advice to load without data for that specific cartridge, especially for a new shooter. Get a manual or two, a good scale, start at the minimum load and work up. Go buy some powder that’s shown on those loading tables for the bullet weight you will use.

Don’t shoot the remaining loads, pull the bullets and start over.

Not a troll . I get the manuals and follow the instructions , next week I'll post the results.
you guys making me so proud :-)





my math skills are a lot better than my reloading , and I am very good at partial differential equations , let me know if you have any questions and i'll partially answer it.

P/Dog...

Barm"s info posted is the source I used in coming up with a max of 32.5 grains...for 3031...

I'd say with the Creed, and your lack of experience... if you want to use 3031, which I think is a fine
powder.... then set the max at 30 grains for your Creedmoor....with a 140 grain bullet..

if you want max velocity with a 140, from your rifle... then I'd consider H 4831SC...

but using the IMR 4831 data above.. I'd recommend starting at 40 grains and
work up to a max charge of 42.5 grains...a mag primer wouldn't be needed...

keep a charge at 40 grains for IMR 4831 or H 4831SC, for a 140... then you will stay out of
danger and trouble...

If you need more velocity for some reason, in a 6.5, then consider another cartridge...

trying to turn a 6.5 Creedmoor into a 6.5/06 or a 264 Win Mag, is going to get you hurt or worse...
keep your life insurance policy paid up for the wife.... she might need it...

this is great , I will also load a few rounds with IMR4350 just for comparison.

If that's the case then you understand my advice.

I'm a PhD in math, but I haven't "practiced professionally" in a while. I'll let you know if I get stuck.

Persiandog , you have fallen into the trap that catches many new reloaders, that is, they try to get the absolute maximum velocity out of their rifle with the first load, and use the most powder they can possibly cram in, or, they use the wrong powder, or, they go to the hottest load in the book and start there.

ALWAYS, start low and work up. ALWAYS use the powders recommended in the manuals. ALWAYS subtract 10% from the maximum quoted loads to start with. ALWAYS load for best accuracy, not for absolute fastest load.

May I recommend you get a couple or three good reloading books and READ THEM CAREFULLY, several times? Respectfullly, you need all the help you can get before you hurt yourself or others.

Pdog,

If you REALLY followed the manuals instructions the questions you posed by this thread would NEVER have been asked!

Very funny. According to the admission of the OP your prophecy may come to fruition.

The only time I suffered a stuck bolt aside from too much powder was too much WipeOut that found its way into my chamber. What a fiasco that was.

HaHaHaHaHa

ETA: i first read it as. "is that a bad load?"

struck my funny bone.

[quote=Seafire]P/Dog...

Barm"s info posted is the source I used in coming up with a max of 32.5 grains...for 3031...

I'd say with the Creed, and your lack of experience... if you want to use 3031, which I think is a fine
powder.... then set the max at 30 grains for your Creedmoor....with a 140 grain bullet..

if you want max velocity with a 140, from your rifle... then I'd consider H 4831SC...

but using the IMR 4831 data above.. I'd recommend starting at 40 grains and
work up to a max charge of 42.5 grains...a mag primer wouldn't be needed...

keep a charge at 40 grains for IMR 4831 or H 4831SC, for a 140... then you will stay out of
danger and trouble...


If you need more velocity for some reason, in a 6.5, then consider another cartridge...

trying to turn a 6.5 Creedmoor into a 6.5/06 or a 264 Win Mag, is going to get you hurt or worse...
keep your life insurance policy paid up for the wife.... she might need it...[/quot


H4831SC works excellent in my 6.5X 55 Tikka.I use 143ELDx with that powder for sub 1" groups at 200 yards.My Son killed two Mule deer with that at 350 yardsDRT and 225 yards DRT.Some good stuff for sure.

There's only so much one can do and you reach a point at which you throw your hands up and shake your head at the boat lunch.

I just noticed this thread, and will report that I had the same thing happen with a new Howa 1500 6.5 Creedmoor and Hornady Match ammo. First round fired I had to pound the bolt open. I've fired two boxes of factory ammo and the bolt is still sticky. And, yes, I know how to prep a new rifle. Thorough cleaning and greased the lugs and camming surfaces. The rifle was checked by my gunsmith who bore scoped it and said the chamber, etc. looked good.

I'm not sure what to make of it, but it's interesting that another shooter had a similar experience.

Edited to add: Nothing looks unusual with the fired brass, no flat primers, etc.

Paul

The other shooter was using a heavy overload.

In your case, assuming the factory ammo is OK, I'll ask does the hole in the bolt face for the plunger ejector have a sharp edge?

I checked the brass and all looked ok , I do agree mine was overloaded but I expected to see some expansion on the brass.
the last time it got stock , I couldn't force it to open. someone at range tried to use a rubber mallet and didn't work.
took the gun home and after many gentle tries got it open. but everything look good !

Looks OK. Nothing about the bolt face seems out of the ordinary.

I've used two different lots and types of Hornady ammo. Haven't had one stick hard since the first round, but the bolt is very stiff, especially on the rear pull to extract. Lift isn't too bad.

thanks , I will follow instructions next time :-) . I searched google for this topic and it returned many entries. looks like there are a lot of idiots out there :-)

I am not trolling :

Hodgdon doesn't even list IMR3031 for the 6.5 Creed.

Where the snarf are you getting your load data?

Lucky you didn't do more than stick the bolt.....

Well, we could always ask the guys shooting RL26 without any data....

I've read this thread several times. I can't look away....

Guess I'll be the odd man out...
Mr. Persiandog,
Kudos to you sir! You have embraced the American spirit of rugged individualism and blazing your own path. If no one took chances we'd never have put a man on the moon, split the atom, elected a black president or cured cancer! Carry on you courageous bastard...America! [bleep] yeah!

Reload a 45 70. 405 grain bullet in a Ruger model I


Then report back please.

merry Christmas!

Word......

I will pee into the wind and run with scissors just to show it can be done . we need to make America great again.

Your face should be on Rushmore my friend!
(And it might wind up there if you keep reloading)

imagine that , right next to George Washington (1732–1799), Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826), Theodore Roosevelt (1858–1919), and Abraham Lincoln (1809–1865).
Persiandog(1953-not dead yet)

I will keep reloading !

Don't get too encouraged.......

Bones heal, pain is temporary and chicks dig scars.

And those ol' boys at the boat ramp can be cruel.

This is greatness.

Sounds pretty much like the development of the .44 Magnum.

About what I'd expect from an Obama supporter; they are clueless.

Persian Dog, you are ok in my book.
You f'd the pooch, but accept that and seem willing to learn.
You have taken your licks here with humor and grace, go forth and
load some more. Be a lot more careful, you are not likely to kill yourself,
but losing eyes or digits is very possible.

Having the headspace was a good suggestion.
At least try some scotch tape or a shim on new brass to
get a SWAG about it.

This.... and I thought the Book of Revelation was the top post.

thanks for all encouraging remarks and emails and PM-s . I'll try again this weekend.
based on a few PM-s , there might be a problem with bolt in addition to my overloading.

Keep up trying.

But start on the low side.

There have been folks that have tried powders that were not listed for cartridges ever since smokeless powder became available.

Have done it myself for a few,i just read everything i could get my hands on before the first primer was spent.

maybe bad batch of ammo from the factory...

I had some Black Hills ammo in 223, that I picked up back when it was like $10 for a box of 50...
to shoot and for the brass at that price...that blew enough to splinter the stock...into 4 pieces...

Resizing the brass at the load bench, will also let you know if it was way over pressure on how
hard or how much resistance you have in resizing it...

How so? Unless perhaps you are using a small-base FL die. Otherwise the part of the case you are sizing will need the same degree of sizing whether your load was a mild one or way over pressure, all else being equal. The hardness won't be affected by how high the pressure was either.

Expansion of the case head, on the other hand, is a pretty good sign that you are pushing things. This part of the case is thicker in cross section and should be harder too, so yielding it and getting measurable expansion is a sign that pressures are getting up there. Significant changes, such as loose primers or the impression of the ejector in the case head, or of course enough deformation that extraction becomes difficult, are signs you are going altogether too hard.

I thought all of it had been published. Earlier poster said it was in the Book of Revelations.

Ed

I bet they were faster than chit

When I was playing LEO, we had a bad batch of SUPER HOT rounds come in. Winchester SXT's (black talons).

The Glocks held up to the pressure, but the Beretta's and Rugers blew up.

The armorers office ran them over a chrono, and they were running about 500 fps over what they should have been.

Sure glad that none of that stuff was issued to me...

I think his balls are sufficiently busted.

Yes, might be the best post ever. I don't laugh out loud at the internet much, but this one got a chuckle for sure!

went back to the range and same thing happened several times , at this point bolt is completely stuck.
called legacy sports , they asked me for serial number and I am suppose to call back later.

at this point I am convinced there is something wrong with the gun and may need to send it back.

P.

What load were you shooting this time?

A friend received some powder from his brother who said it was 4350. My friend loaded up a starting load in his 270 Win. On the first shot the bolt was welded in place , action bulged but fortunately did not rupture. Turns out the powder was 3031. Remington replaced the action and barrel for the price of postage. My friend gave up reloading.

They make factory ammo for a reason....I'd suggest sticking with that

load data is :

powder : IMR 3031 32.5 gr
bullet : Remington .264 dia. 140gr. PSP Core-Lock
brass : new federal


just came back from gunshop , they removed the bolt and everything looked ok , with exception : primer fell off after brass was removed.

I will test with factory ammo and follow up with legacy sports .

P.

Your name doesn't happen to be Zachariah ?

you mean "Your name isn't happen to be" ?

I shot the same lot of ammo in an identical rifle, with no problems. The original rifle is going back to Legacy.

There were no visible signs of excessive pressure on the fired brass.

Paul

Funniest thread in a long time........

and very educational !

you need a safer hobby.

there was no evidence of too much powder.

Plenty of evidence of lack of common sense......

I think persiandog's hobby is fishing, not reloading. And he appears to be quite successful at getting lots of bites with his bait

I'm pretty sure that's where a lot of guys are getting their RL26 data!

You might be on to something there..........

What you can do to solve your problem is take the IMR 3031 and grind it down so that you get the powder away from the bullet when you are loading it. Getting the powder away from the bullet will reduce the pressure in your chamber. This will also allow you to get just a little more powder in the case but don't go puttin' too much in because then you'll be back at the problem you gots now. Now if anything goes wrong I read this info on the internet some where!

Yes there was. A guy named Persian Dog posted the evidence of too much powder

You mean, like "what causes bolt get stuck?"

You crack me up, dawg!

Famous last words for Red Necks "Here hold my beer and watch this".

get off the 3031!
the primer fell out and you think nothing is wrong?
did you reload the brass you used to proof test that receiver?
get off the 3031! even if you have tons of it to burn.
if your bore is the slightest tight you will never get where you are trying to get with 3031.
God watches out for fools or i wouldn't still be reloading after 55 years of stupid.
may he continue to watch out for you.

What would cause a bolt to get stuck, even when not live fired with a round? I had a Cooper M54 and even when dry firing, the bolt would get stuck requiring 2 hands to lift it. After that it would cycle smoothly. Dry fire it, and again the bolt would be stuck.

i'd post that in gunsmithing forum, you might get better (or at least more) answers.

I used a spent round for dry firing and got it stuck so bad we had to use an old steel military cleaning rod like a ram rod to get it out. I just hung one with Lapua brass that I had not trimmed before reloading. I ran about ten cases through the Lee trimmer and it didn't take any metal off at all so I stopped and just loaded them out of the bag. Apparently there was a 6.5x57 case in with the 6.5x55 cases I was loading. I had to hammer on the bolt to get it out. I ran all 50 of those loads through the rifle and that was the only one.

Fools luck has saved my Azz numerous times. Without it I would have no luck at all.

Just because you use the handle Persian Dog, that doesn't give you permission to suicide bomb your local gun range:

You are way over max, this is a dangerous load. That's why your bolt is sticking.

If you are too stupid to listen, please maintain a minimum distance of 10 meters between yourself and other shooters, and post before and after picture of your rifle, hands and face after your Kaboom.

Next thing you know he'll be filling that case plumb up with RL-26 like everybody else..............

Are you sure he won't be filling it with HS-6?

Bullseye sounds good to me...

Not.

Ed

I always thought the best load was where you dip the case in the powder and then cram the bullet on top in spite of any crunching. Isn't that what Ken Waters called the optimal load density? Here hold my beer.

Ye olde persiandog seems to be a heck of a fisherman.

10 meters? How far is that?






P

Not far enough..........................................

~33 feet.

If you continue too reload, it will be, "His name might of been Zachariah, I can't tell from his photo Id."

Get some neosporin

The REALLY bad thing about this is....it makes one wonder just how far back down the line that gene goes??

You'll have to pardon me a moment, Persiandog. I have been reading through this thread and the old Quality Assurance Manager in me is quite curious regarding one point. If you don't mind, can you explain to me what gave you the idea of using 3031 in that chambering? I don't mean to be mean. I'm just doing some root cause analysis here. Obviously, the root cause came before you went to the bench and grabbed the powder. From what I gather, this wasn't a momentary brain fart-- you thought this one out.

My reason for saying this is that most folks, me included, have done something really and truly stupid at their reloading bench. However, they usually did it possessed of a sound mind.

I had an acquaintance, over a decade ago, of a co-worker who got me on the discussion of reloading 9mm ammo for the Walther P1/P38. He'd had a very bum experience with his. I had recently acquired one and was having a great time. During the discussion I found out his problem. He always started at the MAX for starting loads and worked up from there. When I told him it was the MIN and not the MAX he should be using as a starting point, he explained that the MIN was the minimum amount of powder you could put in the round before it blew up. It didn't matter anyway, because he had sold the pistol to a friend who'd decided it was junk. By then, it probably was.

His answer to my worries about blowing up firearms with his practice was that the size of the brass was determined by how much volume you could put into a given cartridge before it blew up, and it was all standardized and that there was no way you could blow up a gun as long as you used rifle powders in rifles and pistol powders in pistols.

This knowledge was all gained before the Internet. He'd amassed it by reading books.

I bought the 3031 for loading .308 and everything was fine . when I bought the Howa 6.5 CM , looked for data and couldn't find it . posted a few messages on 2 forums and a few people suggested to start with 32.5 gr and I did.

I switched to IMR4350 and did some reloading today. will take it to range this weekend.
I did have the gun checked out with our local gunsmith and he said everything is fine and no damage is done.
P.
PS: for more details : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_by_fire

Don't feel too bad. On my first reloading attempt, I misread the instructions of what to do with the expander die. For some reason I thought you ran it down into the case for approximately the depth you were seating the bullet.

The finished 44 Magnum rounds were all crooked and I could not get them into the chamber of my Ruger Blackhawk. I took them back to the counter at the LGS. The counter guy took one look at them and couldn't stop laughing.

I am having a lot of fun with this and lot to learn at any cost ! as of Jan/1st we can't buy ammo without background check.

Persiandog,

The California Ammunition Vendor regulations take effect at the start of 2018, but the ammunition buyer background checks don't take effect until January 2019. This is because the state can't get the infrastructure in place and running before then. That date may be delayed further. With luck, this misguided legislation may get reversed or killed by then.

It IS a fact that after this coming January 1st, we can't buy any ammunition on-line and have it shipped directly to our homes. We can have it shipped to a licensed dealer who can then deliver it to us face-to-face (with a service charge). And we can't bring ammunition purchased out of state back into California. But we won't have the background check for at least another year.



Learning to reload, properly and carefully, is a good idea, especially if you are concerned about being able to pass the background check (lol).

is persiandog still among the living?