Lets hear opinions from anyone that has an opinion on the subject.....what's the future of the Hornady 17 mach 2?

Niche market. Have a friend that loves it. But he prob has a lifetime supply already stashed. Will be like some calibers of brass. Made when they feel like it.

It may be the best tree rat cartridge ever but there aren't many tree rat hunters left out there. It will eventually go the way of the 5mm, .25, .32 and .44 rimfires.

I suspect Blackheart is correct. When the .17 Mach 2 appeared, it was promoted as a less-expensive alternative to the .17 Hornady Rimfire Magnum, for those shooters/hunters who didn't need the range of the HMR.

.17 Mach 2 ammunition cost about half as much as HMR ammo, usually around $60 a 500-round brick, and it became pretty popular here in the West among ground squirrel shooters, who use a LOT of ammo, sometimes a 500-round brick a day. It was just as accurate (if not more so) than the .17 HMR, and ground squirrel shooting is a closer-range deal than prairie dog shooting, because they're not as spooky. Rimfire-range PD's usually disappear underground pretty quickly after shooting starts, but ground squirrels stick around, and the .17 Mach 2's accuracy and trajectory made it very effective out to around 125 yards, which pretty much covers ground squirrel shooting. I bought one, a CZ 452, and it worked great.

But during the rimfire "shortage," demand rose so high for .22 Long Rifles that .17 Mach 2 ammo wasn't produced very often, and when it was produced occasionally, demand was so high it quickly disappeared again. As a result price went up, close to .17 HMR prices--when you could find it, which wasn't often. Usually it went for $90 a brick, and in the meantime .17 HMR hadn't gone up much at all, and was almost always available, often on sale for $10 to $11 a brick. As a result there was no advantage in using the .17 M2.

I finally gave up the constant search for ammo, and sold my .17 Mach 2 to a tree squirrel hunter. But they don't buy enough ammo to justify the big production numbers of .17 HMR, because a brick can last for years. I also know other ground squirrel shooters who sold their .17 M2's for the same reason.

Without as much demand, there's no reason for ammo factories to make .17 M2 constantly, like they do .22 LR and .17 HMR ammo, so as Blackheart noted, it will continue to be a niche cartridge, produced only "seasonally" for the relatively small number of users. As a result, it isn't being chambered in many new rifles. I just checked the CZ site and couldn't find anything in .17 Mach 2.

I have started hearing that other makers are now starting to produce 17HM2, so it may make it.

Hornady product managers are good enough to understand brand loyalty is “spread spectrum” .... do you want people buying you ammo, and ammo components.... then keep what you make to “round wise” and the loyalty will follow.

I’m starting to think that Winchester (whom’s components and ammo I used to buy), product managers are either business banking types (all about the short term buck), or liberal wankers who just want to get paid a ton vs. being a proffessional and contributing to the sport. Either way the completely screwed over thier customers with the WSM fiasco, and the quality of the brass and “marketing” of thier ammo basically become crapola... Unfortunately in most large corporations about “who talks good” about you internally... results take 3-5 years before they start putting the screws to you and fire the Senior VP that doen’t Know how to run an organization with the “right guys” below them... Bank investors / Bankers are typically young guys the rotate around and are “smart” ... so they all try to turn the fast buck.... 7-10 years later they realize they caused a [bleep] storm and the market crashed so they look for guys who can run the product line and create value again vs. squeeze out the value.

The “long term guys” know you can’t mass product hunting - so it’s the higher quality, best fit things that win over time, provided the banker idiots don’t screw it up, the 17HM2 will survive because of good management like Hornady has... and a few writers sure don’t hurt.

BTW - My sako Quad 17HM2 with 15.5 NTX (Hornady of course), has unbelieveable terminal performance - basically the lock up when hit, and fall (DRT).
I bought 4 bricks of 17grain Hornady 17HM2 because the 15.5’s weren’t available, but now they are available again, so I bought 3 bricks .....

Happy as a clam with Hornady, and the 17HM2.

BTW

All my CCW pistol ammo (40, 9mm, 380, and home safe 45) === HORNADY

My brass these days == Hornady

My bullets == Hornady & Barnes

All of those were winchester when I was shooting Hight power (yep I shoot compeition)...

The last batch of Mach 2 ammo that Midway sold was for $85/brick of 500....it was sold out fairly quickly. Now I see gunbroker has thousands of Mach 2 ammo at aucton with .01 start and no reserve.....essentially "dumoing" fair sized inventories.....this includes Hornady and CCI brand.....but not Ely or Remington brands.

I converted a 1915 Stevens falling block to .17 Mach 2....just love it.....and am considering converting another as well....this time possibly a CZ bolt .22 LR....it's just that the ammo supply seems to be feast or famine.....and yes, I stocked up for a while. It's a great little round from the folks at Hornady.....and IMO even better than the .17 HMR as the HMR seems to be a bit too much. I'm just not sure how much to invest in this little round.....and the comments such as "just like the 5 mm Rem Mag" are a tad scary as someday the future owners of these guns will have fine guns and no way to shoot them.....

Saw a number of new Savages on GB for about $250, so a feller could try one out pretty cheaply. That rifle doesn't appeal to me much, though. Ammo prices were kinda all over the place.

IF CZ made a 455, I'd probably buy one knowing I could switch it over if the round died off completely. I would definitely buy a 455 barrel if available from CZ, but likely never a $400 one from Shilen etc, unless I get REALLY bored.

Will it do anything a .223 won’t do? I’ve never had a .17.

Bleak. The .17HMR got the jump on the market with plenty of guns and the ammo to feed them. Everything else are Johnny-come-latelys trying to ride the HMR coattails.

I like the .17 M2. As others have mentioned here, it's probably the best tree squirrel cartridge ever. It's good for wiping red squirrels off the bird feeder too. One winter I shot about a hundred of them right in the back yard with the M2. Mine is just one of the barrels for my Sako Quad, so if ammo became completely unavailable I'd just have a useless barrel, not a useless rifle. Come to think of it, I could ream the chamber out to .17 HMR.

I can't think of much the .22 LR is good for that the .17 M2 can't do better. I've laid in a pretty good supply of ammo for it.

There are 100s of thousands of rounds on GB right now, most of which looks like it is going for final sale at 10 to 12 cents per round. No ammo shortage now.

Just buy a lifetime supply and be happy, if it is what you want for shooting squirrels on the ground or in the trees.

As for plinking, I don't see the value, in that a 22LR can do that very cheaply for under 75 yards let's say, and the 17HMR can do it flatter if you want to run further. Or you can jump to a 17WSM for more better, or just learn to lob bullets with a 22LR.

+1

That is exactly what I did, buy a lifetime supply.

for the sake of the sport, fairness to critters, and teaching of the younger guys it would be good if there were some more articles on squirrel hunting and the 17HM2... I fear however that everything today is driven by the mighty $, so there isn’t much interest in things that simply work. Now if they chambered it in an AR (speaking about the trend where kids want 22’s that look like they are min-ranch rifles or AR rifles).. that might make a difference.

The funny part, I would have never tried the HM2 but I got the barrel as part of my sako quad set, and “tried it” ... wow, was I suprised when it out performed all my expectations, I had spent a good deal of money on pellet guns that were way to heavy because 22’s don’t perform the way I like on squirrels, the 17 HM2 is without question better. There is just a lack of the “sexy” factor for squirrel hunting.

Of course the mighty $ drives the market, including the market for articles. Without profit, everybody goes home. Dandy as it is for some things, the M2 flopped. What money there is to be made appears to be in occasional runs of ammo. Blessings on Hornady (in the form of profit) and others who continue to feed the rifles out there.

The .17 WSM may be headed down the same road. Its niche is even smaller than the M2's, and suffers from a dearth of rifles in the middle-price range. New ammo has the Hummer hot on its heels. A lower-power "game" or "squirrel" load for the HMR that would be easier on the meat might sell, and drive a stake through the M2's chances once and for all.

I like the M2, had a 1911 conversion unit for it that was mostly a peach, but I'm not investing any serious money in it as things stand.

Every new cartridge that appears makes me think 5mm Rem.
I knew several folks who had and loved the 5mm. But couldn't buy
ammo for their rifle. Ammo was $50-100 per box when you could find it.
Often, someone sold a rifle and a box or two of ammo as a package.

If I had an H2, it would have to have the lifetime ammo supply.
And it does intrigue me, just don't think it would be used much.

I have a tack driving heavy barrel CZ-452 and like it a lot. glad to see ammo becoming more available. I hope it sticks around. I think Hornady will continue to support it. Although, it doesn't have the 30 degree shoulder angle (evil grin)...

Vapodog: I certainly hope it has a bright and long "future"!
I have a pair of heavy barrel Rifles in caliber 17 Mach2.
One is a humble N.E.F. "Handi-Rifle" (again with the heavy barrel) - this single shot Rifle is impressively accurate for what it cost me and it has a very nice trigger pull.
I carry it a lot as a truck gun for Grouse but it mainly is used for Ground Squirreling and happenstance Varmints.
The other heavy barrel 17 Mach2 is a Kimber S/V/T (Silhouette/Varmint/Target) and it IS amazingly accurate - I have a Leupold 6.5x20 EFR variable on it and its kind of not fair once I get in a Ground Squirrel Colony with it.
My good friend has a modified Ruger MK-II that is in caliber 17 Mach2 and he has an optical sight on it (along with a suppressor!) - if you want to see how accurate that the Ruger MK-II can be then gear one up in 17 Mach2 like my friend did!
The caliber, I "opine", is a VERY useful one - it is VERY lethal on appropriate size small game, Grouse and Varmints and its accuracy is, IME, splendid.
My good friend here in SW Montana (a former long range competitor, militarily retired then retired as a gunsmith) has an ULTRA-accurate heavy barrel CZ in caliber 17 Mach2. We were at the range one day in dead calm conditions.
I saw him shoot five Eley 17 Mach2 bullets into a group at 100 yards that measured just a hair over 1/4" (.250"!)!
I measured that group myself by the way.
My friend was so impressed with the accuracy and the performance of his heavy barrel CZ in 17 Mach2 that he tried to buy another one but by then the CZ folks had quit offering that model in 17 Mach2.
I get invited to Hunt Ground Squirrels in several places where richocheting bullets and loud noises are not allowable.
The 17 Mach2 is absolutely perfect for these instances along with being just great for many other uses.
Before this season started I had begged, borrowed and stolt a hoard of a little over 20 cartons (10,000+) rounds of Hornady 17 Mach2 ammo - I have gone through over 500 rounds so far this season and will fire another 300 - 400 by seasons end.
At that rate I have another 10 years worth on hand and only buy it now at "bargain" prices (for instance the local "Murdochs" store had it on sale [no limit] recently for $7.99 - no tax - I bought all they had - 16 boxes).
I have friends all across the country who look for 17 Mach2 ammo for me and on some occasions they "gift" it to me. That is MUCH appreciated but not necessary.
I, indeed, hope the 17 has a long future.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I just bought 5,500 rounds.....at auction from gunbroker.....time will tell f it's a good buy.

We all have different tastes, but I can't imagine a need or want for anything of .17 caliber. I had a .17 Ackley Hornet on a low-wall action many years ago. Fun to play with for a while but the new wore off quickly.

I'll agree with JB's interpretation of the situation. If you have one and really like it, pack in a pile of ammo, hopefully from the same lot. I've stayed away from it simply because I have so many other alternatives in that "range" -- really decent 22LRs and about the time those run out of gas, Fireball and up. And no matter WHAT happens, I suppose there will always be a combination of bullet, powder and primer to make the Fireball go bang, somehow. After the 22LR fiasco, I'm just not that committed any more to something where I have to buy complete ammo of any kind.

I thought it would sell better than the 17 HMR...

using the same logic the 22 LR outsells the 22 Win Mag...

however I was wrong...

but for myself, I'd prefer the 17 Mach 2, vs the HMR....

but ammo availability kinda screwed that thought up...

I have a super accurate Ruger 77/17. It is my favorite squirrel rifle. I have more rounds than I will ever shoot, but still am on the waiting list for the next production where I will buy another brick or two, just in case my grandkids like it. I think it’s to fine a cartridge to go the way of the 5mm, which as stated above it will probably go. When that happens they can rebarrel it to a .22.

I had one in a cz 452.
My young son could shoot sub moa groups with it off the bench at the gun range.
When I couldn't buy ammo anymore ,I sold it with the ammo I had.

Not sure if I count as one who cares. The HMR has proved useful for turkeys and such but no experience at all with the Mach 2. I think the industry should cut back on all the other rimfire loads and concentrate on just the most practical. We have: 22 blank (several) 22 bb, 22 CB, 22 Short, 22 Long and 22 Long Rifle, 22 shot in several versions, 22 plastic bullet, 22 nail gun, and then 22 magnum, and many zipper or special loadings of each, why do we need all of these? I thought the 5mm Rem. was a good design. Did the metric name kill it or the cost and availability of ammo?

The Mach 2 is very useful for low noise and low ricochet applications around suburban areas etc. Ideal for tree and ground rats of all types. If more popular, ammo could sell for about the same as 22RF. Will it make it? I doubt it.

Oh and it could be good in pistols too. The 22 Mag is too much especially with no ear muffs but the Mach 2 would not be too bad even in a revolver with wearing ear plugs only.

I love mine but I predict it to die hard....volosity always sells...and the 17 hmr will be the choice for most...I have a contender carbine with both 17 barrels...I never use the HMR....the hm2 get a lot of starlings and critters around the farm.. I went so far as making my 77-22 alwether a switch barrel in hm2. Also did a rebarrel on an old rem target master in 17 hm2. Those both shoot really good..
Ammo prices are the doom....when I did these rifles I scored a ton of ammo cheap and have about 8 k rds left...

yup....that about sums t up....the .22 LR at $.05 and the Mach 2 at $.17.....three and a half times as much.....

I bought a Marlin 917M2 when they first came out. I must have got a lemon, because mine didn't shoot for crap. I have a Marlin HMR that shoots so well you'd call me a liar if I told you just how good it is.

Mine wouldn't shoot Hornady, CCI, or Eley, worth a crap. I sold it to a guy at work who absolutely loves it, but his expectations are lower than mine. I had shot another Marlin that was under MOA, mine was not. I don't miss the thing at all, or the cartridge, frankly.

The problem I'm afraid is it really won't do much more than a 22 rf....but it has a nich...I love mine....a rebarreled a rem target master for sage rats...resigned an old 10-22 barrel and fit it up on my Ruger 77-22 for a switch barrel rifle....I bought up a ton of ammo when it was still cheap so I'm good for awhile...also have barrels for the contender carbine in both h2 and Hmr....never shoot the Hmr...too expensive
And what will it do a hornet won't...

have 4K rds in my stash


at an 80% hit ratio..........

thats another 3200 dead p/dogs


awesome short range dog gun

had a buddy get outta the 17M2 business..........

traded him rd for rd for 22LR/17M2.........

3K rds.......what a deal...........

Ruger 77.........

Lilja M2 barrel

Ruger 77/22 sporter with a M2 GM fluted stainless....

Luv that pic !!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

your tired Pumpkin cat.........

TLEE won't like that.

Pheasant population coming back around here

my M2 has removed many pheasant egg & chick eaters........

long live the M2.....or at least my 4K rd stash

if a cat is more than 100 yds from his house.......

its a feral.........bye bye