I was looking at a new winchester 1886 45-90 with a 24" barrel today. The gun dealer told me the barrel was rifled to ONLY use cast bullets. I find this odd since I already have a modern winchester 1886 in 45-70 and it shoots jacketed and cast bullets great, even at top speeds.
He said the barrel and rifling can only be used with cast bullets.

Does anyone know if there is a difference in the 45-70 and 45-90 barrels besides the chambering?

Thanks

IIRC, the .45/90 was twisted slower, for the lighter, faster bullets. There wasn't much real difference, but the .45/90 was an "Express" load, as all the faster loads were called back then. The slower, heavier bullets penetrated better, and were generally a better load. Of course, the "faster" load shot a fuzz flatter, at least at shorter ranges.

Also, why do some people say the 45-90 in the new 1886 can only be loaded to black powder levels? I wouldn't see why the 45-90 would be any weaker or stronger than the 45-70 in the same rifles.
I also believe winchester did a 1 in 32 twist in the original 1886 but Winchesters web site says the twist is 1 in 20 in the 45-90 just like their 45-70 unless it's a miss print.

Any insight anyone?

It wouldn't be the first time that a gun dealer didn't know diddly squat about the guns he was selling.

There is no reason to buy it unless you planned on shooting black powder in it. The case is too large to shoot a safe smokeless load in it...

I have that exact rifle on lay away right now.


The twist rates are the same for the current 45-70 and 45-90 rifles so I dont understand why you could not shoot jacketed bullets.


As far as the BP only markings, my shop claimed they called BACO and they reported that they marked it as such because the 45-90 was always a BP round??

They indicated it was just as strong as the 45-70.

Who is BACO?

Browning Arms Company.

The Company that makes the Winchester 1886 replicas.

Thanks!

Browning did the same thing with the 1885 BPCR in 40-65. Because there wasn't any factory ammo or specs available for the 40-65 they covered their butt by limiting it to black powder. The same gun in 45-70 wasn't designated black powder only.

Dennis.

Can you load it with Trail Boss, it would fill the case, maybe H 4895 can be used??

I intend to use H322, RL7 or 4198.

Your gun dealer is winging it and doesn't know jack squat..He's assuming since the barrel is stamped BP it's for cast bullets only..My '86 is a Miroku Winchester one of 500 octagon bbl.which digests heavy smokeless loads with ease..The new 86's whether Browning or Winchesters are as good as it gets for strength in 45/70 or 90. The "express" bullets around 350 grs with smokeless seem to shoot the best however I load some cast heavies of 400 grs with 4198 , BH-209 or BP with very good accuracy and had the best results with 4198. Express bullets with 4198 show chrono velocities around 2K which will knock most critters out of their sneakers..all I need and then some !

Or, you can fill the big cases nicely with H 4350 or 4831, easily attainable velocities at nice low pressures, I use them in my Nitro doubles and 505 Gibbs.

Fine looking irons there Woody!

Definitely nice rifles!

I believe with a strong enough rifle you can get more power out of a 45-90. I have one in a high wall. I also have a 86 and a Marlin, both in 45-70.

So far, I've been able to get all the power I want out of those 45-70's. The 86 has the wrong butt for for full power, IMO (I like shotgun style for heavy kickers) and the Marlin is too light for full power loads. My 45-90 though is heavier and marked BP only (BPCR) -- I think if the need arose, I could put the power level in that 45-90 above the 45-70's. I'm not sure what I'd be shooting at with that 45-90 that would need the extra oomph though. I'd surely like to take that 45-90 to shoot a Bison Bull with a heavy cast bullet or maybe a buffalo in a ranch in Texas. But I don't think it would be first choice for the big bears or Africa.

Thanks two of my favorites... Gunner has a share in that Sharps as well as Jorge and Evil Twin..I'll always be indebted for their kindness !

Glad to see such interest in the .45-90 and for the right reasons. My elephant gun, Miroku 1886 TD, 26 inch hex barrel, 9.5 pounds: 450 grain Kodiak at 2150 fps. + North Fork and Punch bullets at various velocities.



And buffalo, leopard, exotics, etc.

And yes, ignore the black powder only crap on the barrel.

Lots of speculation here, but the reason for “black powder only” is purely a liability issue because there isn’t any factory 45-90 ammunition produced today. If you fill a case with black powder it will reasonably reproduce original loads that are safe, but with all that room in that case and smokeless powder, you have a lot of room for disaster...

Looking forward to getting mine off of layaway.

No indebtedness necessary here Sir, you've already paid, while You were machine gunning trash off old EvilTwin and his Buds, I was standing my goofy ass in the grade school lunch line hoping for a big piece of chicken that day! The pleasure was all mine Friend.

Certainly true, a person has to really do their homework before loading big high volume straight wall cases with smokeless..Buff Arms still lists 45/90 BP ammo,, in addition smokeless 300 gr JHP loaded for $ 52 a box


https://www.buffaloarms.com/45-90-w...-jhp-smokeless-ammo-box-of-20-amo4590300

I have a friend that shoot a 45-90 at shoots to 600 yards out of a sharps. they are black powder loads but he shot jacketed bullets out of his with no problem good luck have fun its the game

The Sharps action is way stronger than the Win 86.

I believe the 1885 Winchester is the strongest 45-90

Did Navy Arms ever chamber the Siamese Mauser to 45-90?

The Sharps folks are fine with smokeless in their 45-70's. They suggest sticking to BP, however, with the 90's and above. I too suspect that policy is mostly a reflection of legal concerns. A lot can go wrong with all the room in a 90 or above cartridge with some winging it hand loader. There have been a couple explosions in recent years at long range competitions most likely due to duplex loads.

Have a Sharps 90, that will always be restricted solely to BP.

Well a 458 Win Mag has more capacity than a 45-90 and so does a Lott.

I have a Sharps and a High wall, yes they are stout actions but lets get back to the OP's topic ..the 45-90 '86 Win .

I think the question has been answered. We’re rambling now.

Then carry on.. I'm interested in more '86 load input whether it's BP or smokeless, cast or jacketed myself..I'm not a rambler by definition