Hi MD and all others

What is your opinion on much factory ammo costs? My perception is some can be found for much cheaper than good quality reloads.

Also, what is going on with the cost of lead? Many guys I know are shotgunners and tell me that they just now buy their shells vs reloading for their scatterguns.

roanmtn

I gave all my MEC relaoders away, sold my lead shot.....I can buy shot shells waaay cheaper than I can reload em if I count my time spent loading.

Heck man.....even if you don't count your time to reload them.....I have 75 pounds of lead shot on hand so I still reload my skeet shells.....but when it's gone I'll buy them.....now good hunting loads are a far different thing.....I can still reload hunting loads for less.....but I already have the equipment..and wads and hulls and primers.....finding shot however requires going to gun shows to find #5 and #6 shot economically but it's out there.

When it comes to center fire rifle ammo I never buy any....I reload them all....mostly as the cost of hunting ammo with premium bullets is out of this world.....again, I already have the equipment and enough powder to blow up my entire house.....and yes....a lifetime supply of primers.

Well you can probably thank a certain former President for the cost of shot. He tightened the EPA rules down so far that there is no longer a lead smelter in the US. Replaced a car battery lately? Last one I replaced was about $150.
There was a time when rolling your own netted significant savings and increased accuracy. Factory stuff has improved significantly and component costs have risen. Not much difference anymore.

At current prices, I can reload my trap and sporting clays loads for around $5.00 and change a box. I can’t buy anything worth a schitt for that. Also I can load my own 1 ounce loads that don’t have me flinching half way through the second round. I use American Select and my guns aren’t filthy with the powder residue either.

It’s still cheaper to reload, plus you get exactly what you want. I enjoy reloading a lot. I enjoy gearing up for a caliber I’ve never loaded before.

Craig called it right, across the board.

If you want to make your gun go bang,
then cheap promo loads are probably the cheapest.
Especially if you don't have equipment.

If you want to shoot quality or premium ammo,
reloading is cheaper.

Empties are always a factor.

Depending on circumstances, buying factory, then reloading is
usually cheaper than buying brass.

For someone starting at the start, and especially if your ammo needs are limited or modest, it might take a long time to amortize the cost of all the crap you need. I started very simply, a long time ago, and have added and inherited lots of stuff over the years. Now I've got piles of brass and bullets, all kinds of powder, and finally managed not long ago to score enough primers to probably last me the duration, so my costs are mostly "prepaid" now.

Try buying 16 gauge,not to mention 25-20, 250 Sav, 257 Robert's, or 38-55

Here's something I wrote on the subject three years ago:

FACTORY RIFLE AMMO

During a recent conversation about a hunt, somebody asked what handload was used. When I told him it was a factory load, he frowned and said, “Why would you ever hunt with anything but handloads?”
Why indeed? Isn’t one of the major points of being a rifle loony using handloads carefully worked up over several hours at the bench and range for your specific rifle? Plus, all rifle loonies know factory ammo is inferior to handloads.
Actually a lot of the time it’s not, for several reasons, but when I started handloading back in the Cenozoic Era (the 1960’s) most handloaders firmly believed our ammo was superior to factory stuff. We could work up loads specifically for our rifles, resulting in finer accuracy and more velocity, and use superior custom bullets.
This was probably true for the factory ammo of the period. Only Weatherby loaded anything except a basic cup-and-core bullet in their ammunition, offering Nosler Partitions in some loads. The bullets and ammo loaded by other companies were often not very precisely dimensioned, because the factories didn’t have to make great ammo: Relatively few hunters handloaded, so factory ammo was their only choice.
However, even many of our handloads weren’t all that great back then. I read a lot of books and magazine articles, and can’t remember reading anything concerning how bullet alignment in the case affected accuracy, or how playing with seating depth might tighten groups. Instead you were supposed to try different bullets to see which one your rifle “liked” (which might have been due to how well your seating die’s stem matched that particular bullet, resulting in straighter rounds, as I discovered a couple decades later). In reality better accuracy was probably mostly due to using bullets that were better-balanced than most factory bullets, loaded in cases fired in our rifles’ chambers.
None of us had chronographs, so we had no idea whether our ammo was actually faster than factory stuff. One of my buddies bought a 7mm Remington Magnum, then the Hot In-Cartridge, because like a lot of hunters he was convinced it was vastly superior to old-fashioned rounds like the .270 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield. He handloaded 160-grain bullets with a powder charge his manual said would get 3000 fps, then killed a pile of deer, black bears and elk. He was convinced his Big Seven (as many Montanans called the round back then) was indeed super.
But when affordable chronographs appeared a decade or so later, he discovered his magic handload was actually getting around 2700 fps, about like a warmly loaded 7x57 Mauser. You might think he’d have noticed the trajectory wasn’t as flat as it should have been, but he lived in the steep, timbered mountains of western Montana, where shots over 250 yards are rare. (Or at least they were before long-range hunters started backing up their pickups to extend ranges). Instead, his Big Seven killed well because he shot it well, something many owners of 7x57’s and its modern equivalent, the 7mm-08, have been doing for over a century.
I had a similar experience with my first chronograph, purchased in 1979, and the first rifle I seriously handloaded for, a Remington 700 .243 Winchester. According to the Speer manual, my handload with the 105 Hot-Cor would get very close to 3000 fps, but instead the velocity turned out to be a little under 2800. The load had killed a bunch of animals neatly, but the chronograph ruined it. I switched to a 100-grain bullet and leaned on the powder charge, because I had to get 3000. It worked too, but no better than the “slow” 105-grain load.
Since those days factory ammunition has improved considerably, partly because so many hunters handload and own chronographs. This competition forced factories to start loading better bullets, both in construction and accuracy. Velocity is still sometimes a little lower than specifications in our rifles, for a couple of reasons. First, many factory rifles have larger bores and chambers than test barrels, and second, even SAAMI velocity specifications are allowed to vary plus or minus 90 fps. However, as my .243 and my friend’s Big Seven demonstrated, so what?
For several reasons I kill quite a few big game animals with factory ammunition, though exactly how many varies from year to year. The most important reason is I’m a professional gun and hunting writer, so should know how factory ammo works, and because of my job get invited on some hunts where shooting factory ammo is part of the deal. But I also use factory ammo for some of my own hunting.
Out of curiosity I looked over my hunting notes for the past decade to see how many animals were taken with factory ammo. During that period I took fewer animals than in the previous decade, because of a conscious decision to spend more time hunting with family and friends, but still killed 97 big game animals. (It probably would have been over 100, but one fall’s hunting was mostly wiped out by my Labrador dislocating my knee while upland hunting in September, resulting in only one big game animal taken that year.)
Of the 97 animals, 38 were taken with factory ammo and 59 with handloads, though four of the handloads were loaded by other people for the borrowed rifles I used on two hunts, so only 55 of my own handloads were used, slightly more than half the total. The factory ammo ranged from the .243 Winchester to the .338 Winchester Magnum, and no problems were encountered with any of it, whether in accuracy or bullet performance, despite some of the bullets being “cup-and-cores.”
I also handloaded for some of the same rifles, before or after the hunts, and had a hard time beating the accuracy of some factory ammo. One memorable example was the Federal Premium .308 Winchesters loaded with 150-grain Ballistic Tips used in a Sako rifle on an “industry” pronghorn and mule deer hunt in Wyoming. Three-shot groups averaged ½’ to ¾” at 100 yards, and I took the mule deer buck at almost 450 yards. The pronghorn was only 250 yards away but facing me directly, and the bullet landed at the “dimple” at the base of the throat. (It also exited the buck’s right ham.)
In several other rifles various factory loads shot into an inch or less, and along with the hunting I shot a pile of factory ammo at targets out to 1000 yards, and various varmints out to 800. There were no fail-to-fires, and accuracy was always up to the task. Some of the rifles were customs or limited production rifles, but most were factory.
In fact, I’ve talked to several handloaders during this past decade who couldn’t match some factory-ammo accuracy with their handloads. Without exception, they were still trying to work up loads the old-fashioned way, by trying different bullets to see what their rifle liked, and weren’t checking bullet run-out. This can be a big factor, because a lot of factory ammo is very concentric.
The reason is simple: Factory brass isn’t run through a typical expander-ball sizing die, which often pulls the neck out of alignment with the case body. Instead, factory cases are formed by running them into a forming die without an expander ball, so the necks of new factory cases are normally very straight. (The exception occurs when factory forming dies wear enough to produce crooked cases, but they’re normally replaced often enough to prevent this.)
The mouths of new cases can be dinged slightly, but the overall neck is still straight. Yet some handloaders still full-length size every new case they buy, usually in a typical loading die with an expander ball—which means a lot of their new brass ends up less straight than when it left the factory. If the mouths of new cases need cleaning up, I run them over an expander ball, usually with the decapping stem loosened to allow the ball to center itself in the neck, but there’s no reason to size the rest of the case.
These very straight cases are what factories use to load factory ammo, so bullets in factory ammo are often seated straighter than in typical handloads. As an example, I recently bought 100 rounds of Hornady American Whitetail factory 7mm-08 ammunition, loaded with the 139-grain Interlock Spire Point. The reason for the purchase will be explained a little further on, but one of the first things I did was test a box for bullet run-out.
Eighteen of the rounds had run-out of .003” or less, and the other two measured .004” and .005”. That’s the level I try for when handloading most big game ammo, because in most big game rifles (especially factory rifles) .005” of bullet run-out provides all the accuracy possible.
Now, in some (not all) custom big game rifles, straighter bullet alignment can make a difference. I once owned a custom 7x57 that shot extremely well, and once took it on an industry hunt where factory ammo had to be used. I sorted through three boxes of ammo with the Casemaster, dividing the rounds into a straightest box (no more than .003” runout), a crooked box (more than .005” runout), and an in-between box (.004-.005”). The straightest box shot groups averaging ½” to ¾” at 100 yards, the in-between box about an inch, and the crooked box around and inch and a half.
The only real difficulty I’ve occasionally run into with factory ammo in quite a while is occasional erratic performance in cold weather. I test ammo that might be used in real cold in real cold, at least down around zero Fahrenheit, and not just by putting the ammo in a chest freezer overnight, but by shooting it in cold weather, with my rifle also cold, just like it would be shot in the field. Some factory ammo loses considerable velocity and changes point of impact noticeably at 100 yards in real cold, and some even hangfires.
However, so do some handloads, the reason I also check them in real cold if they might be used in sub-zero temperatures. But for most of the big game hunting most of us do, in temperatures from maybe 20 degrees to 90, factory ammo works fine, especially if we don’t shoot at big game beyond 500 yards.
But isn’t factory ammo far more expensive than handloads? Not always. The reason I bought the 100 rounds of Hornady 7mm-08’s was a rebarreled tang-safety Ruger 77 purchased off the Campfire Classifieds. I hadn’t owned a 7mm-08 in a while, so there wasn’t any brass in my stash. Sure, 7-08’s are easily formed by necking-down .308’s, but I wanted properly headstamped brass, partly because I have three .308’s.
I looked in local stores on the off-chance somebody had overlooked a bag of 7-08 cases, but no such luck. An Internet search turned up four brands in stock, but prices were pretty high. All but Prvi Partizan were around $100 per 100 cases, and with shipping even the Prvi would cost about $65.
However, during the search I came across the Hornady ammo, and including shipping the price was $22 a box. After subtracting the cost of primers, powder and bullets, the cases ended up costing about the same as the new Prvi brass. Plus, I’d gotten excellent accuracy out of American Whitetail ammo in several cartridges already, and the 139 Hornady Interlock was the bullet I’d planned on loading anyway, since it’s killed a bunch of game from pronghorn to caribou for me over the years. In the Ruger the ammo shot around an inch at a muzzle velocity just under 2800 fps, which considering the 22” barrel was right at the listed factory velocity of 2820 fps. After the 100 rounds gets shot up I’ll have 100 factory cases, fire-formed in my rifle’s chamber.
So yes, I shoot a lot of factory ammo, for a bunch of reasons—but mainly because it works!

And as to shotgun ammo, I've never fired enough, even when I did a fair bit of dove hunting followed up by pheasants during a period when South Central PA had lots of birds, to make that a worthwhile endeavor. I have odds and ends of shells left that date pretty far back, future yardsale stuff when I go under I suppose. Crappy turkey hunter that I am, a box of turkey loads is practically a lifetime supply. Still have some all-plastic Activs made just a few miles away before the company was sold. Those are like a cult object to some apparently.

For me it's not been the needs that have been so costly, but rather the wants.

I shoot both. I think reloading is ultimately cheaper once you buy everything you need to do it, and you can make exactly what you want and need, especially premium stuff way cheaper than if you bought it as premium loaded ammo.

But loaded ammo can be a bargain in some cases also. I recently bought 10 boxes of Federal "blue box" from Buds Gun Shop, 14 dollars & change per box in .308 and 30-06. Additionally, Federal has a 5 dollar per box rebate on it up to a maximum of 10 boxes. And Buds has free shipping if you buy $200 worth of qualifying merchandise making it 9 dollars & change per box. So I get ammo that reliably kills deer sized game, plus once fired brass when I'm done shooting the ammo for about the price of new brass.

+1, +1, +1 on that, it's mostly about that want, about that want, about that want.

A guy can't load as cheap as the cheap ammo at Walmart. A guy can load premium ammo cheaper than Walmart sells premium ammo.

Of course, I stopped trying to amortize handloading equipment a long time ago........

My justification for reloading is the maximization of accuracy. Tweak things just right and near every rifle becomes a nail driver.

I doubt there are many savings today, as the prices of powder, brass, and bullets seem to be through the roof.

I was thinking about starting to load shotgun a short while back.

For any load I wanted to try, the break-even point was somewhere about 5,000 rounds. For the volume I shoot, it was easier and cheaper to just wait for sales and buy them at Walmart.

I have been reloading for rifle and pistol since 2000. In that time, I've not shot a deer with a factory round. I'm now up to a couple dozen chamberings. My latest major acquisition was a Hornady LNL AP press. I'm using it to load 9mm, 45 ACP, 357 Mag and 223 Rem.

I reload for a bunch of reasons. Reloads can still be cheaper than factory. However, the gap has tightened since I started. As with previous posters, I'm not as worried about per round cost. I am more worried about the performance of the round, and I figure the savings are a bonus. It's still cheaper to handload.

Take 35 Whelen as a for-instance. A box of 20 Remmie Green Box 200 grainers cost $46 +Tax. I can make a box of that ammo for about $5-$20 depending on the components I use. It will take me an hour to make them.

Keys to saving money:

Purchase of 1-fired brass in bulk
Conservation of brass (annealing, etc.)
Bullet choice-- don't use a $1 bullet to do what a $.25 bullet can do
Knowing that it is easier and cheaper (and safer) to make a 300 Win Mag shoot like a 30-06 than to attempt the same feat with a 30-30.

If you learn your craft, reloading can open up all kinds of possibilities.

For instance, I got the idea back during the Obama ammo shortage that casting bullets might be a good way to go. I picked one caliber, .358, and decided I would try and find a cast bullet load for everything in my arsenal that shot that caliber. That included 357 Mag, 38 Special, and 35 Whelen and encompassed a fair amount of my firearms. 3 molds and several casting sessions later, I had settled on 3 357 mag loads ranging from 125 grain practice rounds up to a 158 grain deer round for the 1894 Marlin. I also had my Rem 7600 in 35 Whelen converted to 200 grain cast lead.

So I'm sitting there with a bucket full of 125 grain cast bullets in .358. What else can I do with them? As it turns out, .358 cast bullets are an ideal round for 9mm (.356). With a little bit of tinkering, I had all my 9mm's shooting the same bullet.

What did you do to convert it?

Not much
1) Different Scope -- I'd went from a 3-9X40 to a 1.5-4.5X40
2) Load development. Took one long session at the bench.

This was my first load-at-the-bench project. I pre-primed cases and then loaded 5 rounds at a time with H4895.


The result was more like a hot 35 Remington than a 35 Whelen. However, I was just trying this as a proof-of-concept. There was negligible recoil and reasonable accuracy at 100 yards. With more work, a couple different powders, etc, I'm sure I could have done better.

The Whelinizer Makeover

This was also my first test of using our Yondering's shake-and-bake power coat method:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...wder-coating-quick-and-easy#Post11306180

The joy of this method, I've found, is that it is fairly insensitive to the hardness of the bullet. Rather than carefully alloying lead, tin, and antimony for that perfect mix, I can use 50% lead/ 50% wheel weight or range scrap and be fairly certain I've got a good bullet. The powder coat makes the bullet resilient enough to withstand the trip down the barrel.

One reason I reload for my rifles is one of them is a M1 Garand. Yes I know Federal has their 150 grain FMJ load and Hornady has 168 grain target load. Full metal jackets are illegal to hunt with in Florida and not sure if the 168 Hornady load would work. I have used both 150 grain Horandy SST and 150 Speer soft points for the few times I hunted with my M1. Most of you know there is Excell spread sheet out there that you can use to determine reloading cost it does not take in consideration equipment cost just price of components. Plus I do enjoy my time spent reloading. I agree with shotgun reloading which I did first but have reloading any shotgun shells in years.

Good Hunting to all

358win

My father taught me to reload back in the 1970's, and I did it religiously for 40 years except for when I was in the Army. But I'm a big fan of factory ammo these days for five reasons.

First, I stopped worrying about group size after reading an article on the Gunsite 270 rifle class, which focuses on how to use a rifle for hunting and defense. An instructor was quoted as saying that if you’re shooting groups smaller than about 3 MOA, then you need to shoot faster. I had seen similar thoughts elsewhere, but this is the one that sank in.

Second, I had to. My loading gear ended up in storage after I got divorced, so I bought a case of FMJ 308 practice ammo and I was delighted at how nice it was to grab a few boxes of ammo on my way out the door instead of constantly wondering whether I had enough components on hand to load what I needed. Hmmm.

Third, more time for practice. I had just realized the importance of offhand in those days, and I went through half of that case of ammo shooting from my hind legs in the summer before deer season. I dropped a blacktail buck with a fast 90-yard snap shot with that rifle later that year, so the practice paid off and the 3 MOA accuracy standard didn’t hurt me.

Fourth, I switched to cartridges I could find in big-box stores. I wanted to make more hunts that require air travel and I wanted to the ability to buy ammo almost anywhere in case the airlines lost my bags, so I thinned the herd to 44 Magnum, 30-06, 308, and 338 WM. I might have to pay high retail for ammo once I get on the ground, but that’s better than driving around Nowhere County, USA for days looking for 8x68 ammo instead of hunting.

Fifth was cost. Aside from the one-time cost of brass, loading for common calibers is a break-even deal once you figure in the cost of shipping and/or time, fuel and other costs of driving around to buy components. Superb factory ammo is easy to find for common cartridges, plus you can save a lot online if you’re patient and willing to buy in bulk. If I still worked with less common cartridges, then I’d definitely reload just to save money.


I learned a lot from handloading and I kind of miss the rituals of it, but if someone asked me about getting started in it today, then I'd tell them to glass bed/free float the rifle in question, get a chronograph, and bookmark https://ammoseek.com/. Test factory ammo with the chronograph, then buy the load your rifle shoots best in bulk online. Spend your time learning to actually hit things with your rifle instead of fooling with loads.


Okie John

My reloads are at least half or less than even Walmart cheapies. I've been reloading for so long that most of my tools and equipment costs were amortized many years ago. I'm retired so all of my time is FREE, and reloading is a good pastime that produces positive results.

Most of my reloading is shotshells, about 4-5,000 per year. My first shotshell press was a single stage 12 gauge Honey Bair that I bought in the early '70s. I still use it for my hunting loads. I started shooting in Trap leagues and ATA registered Trap competitions in the early '80s, and bought my first Pacific/Hornady 366 progressive 12 gauge shotshell reloader. In the late '80s I started shooting registered Skeet, so I bought 3 more 366 reloaders, in 20 ga, 28 ga, and .410. At that time I was shooting about 10,000 shotshells so I bought my first lead shot maker, and began making up to 700 pounds of my own shot each year.

I dig rifle and pistol bullets from the dirt backstop berms at our rifle range and after I smelt them down, I sell the copper jackets to our local recycle yard for enough money to easily pay for the propane gas that I use to melt the range bullets and the electricity needed to make my lead shot and for casting my lead rifle and pistol bullets. That makes my lead shot and all but my gas checked lead rifle and pistol bullets free.

From my days of competitive Trap and Skeet shooting, many of my friends would only shoot new Winchester AA shells in competition, and they didn't reload and gave me their once fired hulls. I have a lifetime supply of free old style AA hulls.

Our gun club sells members shotshell wads, primers and powder, and rifle and pistol primers and powder in bulk quantities at less than retail prices, so I get the bulk of my components there.

I started rifle reloading back in 1967 when I bought my first centerfire rifle, and for pistols in the early '70s. In the late '70s I upgraded my original Herter's "C" press to a RCBS Rockchucker and a Dillon 450 progressive that I still use today.

I've been a brass scrounger since I was a kid, and even though I now shoot several thousand rifle and pistol rounds each year, I easily have a lifetime supply of free rifle and pistol cases for all except my .300 Weatherby and .375 RUM.

So the bottom line is that I am reloading my shotgun shells (12, 20, 28 ga ands .410) for about $1.50 per box of 25; my lead bullet pistol shells (9 mm, .38 Sp., .44 mag, and .45 acp) for about $2.50 per box of 50; my gas checked lead pistol bullets (.357 and .44 mags) for about $3.00 per box of 50; my gas checked lead rifle bullets for about $2.00 per box of 20; and cup and core bullet rifle shells for about $10.00 a box of 20; and premium bullet rifle shells for about $20.00 per box of 20.

One could always justify or rationalize reloading to save money. But the fact is for most of us, reloaders shoot more so that soaks up pretty much all cost savings.

My reason for reloading is simple, I enjoy it. I enjoy seeing how different styles of bullets perform on game, I enjoy seeing how switching bullets or powder may effect accuracy, etc. I may have started reloading to save money, but really I think I rationalized it. My favorite writers were Finn Aagaard, Bob Milek, John Wooters, JOC, Ed Matunas, Bob Hagel, Ken Waters and others. I poured over their reloading data before I even had the equipment. Then I would use their favorite loads and often varied them to make my own favorite.

That's it, the bottom line. I enjoy it.

Aa
I do, too. Just wish it pencilled out better.


Okie John

Enjoyed the responses here.
Shotgun reloading doesn't pencil out for me anywhere close, so I look for sales and specials to stock up. If it made a difference in patterns, I might reload shotgun, but I've never honestly noticed a difference either on clay or feathers. I do feel a little guilty not reloading, tho.

Rifle and pistol? For stuff like 7.62x39, it's kind of a wash because most guns there are semi auto and the brass gets pounded, plus the basic accuracy isn't there. Same thing for 9mm, but not 45 ACP. The latter pays to reload, the former "breaks even."

But for just about everything else, including 223, reloading pays off in very little time, especially if you put some effort into your time and motion efficiency, which John B. has written about. I can swat out a nice batch of 250 rounds of good stuff in maybe 90 focused minutes from start to stop. Yep, I have a Dillon SEQUENTIAL press (not "progressive" any more). Maybe my figuring would be different using a single stage, but for now, handloading wins for me.

As pointed out in my post, it depends. While retired guys can spend plenty of time not only on the process itself, but scrounging, or making, various components. Their time is basically free, and if they want to shoot a lot, why not?

But for anybody whose time still means money, today's factory ammo can be a very good deal. Aside from my example in the article involving the 7mm-08 (where I got the brass from very cheap factory ammo "free"), quite a few shooters buy .17 Hornady Hornet factory ammo for prairie dog shooting, then sell the once-fired brass afterward to those who prefer to handload.

One amazing fact is that unless you're determined to shoot deer at 500+ yards, today's factory ammo is more than accurate enough, evenin many of the today's "affordable" factory rifles. But if you get recreational pleasure out of reloading "half-inch" ammo, why not?

As for shotgun reloading, I still do some specialized loading for hunting, but for claybird practice, considering the time invested, buying today's bulk ammo is far cheaper. The specialized loading is usually just as expensive as factory ammo, but better.

While many people believe gun writers only shoot "free" ammo, that's often not the case--and especially wasn't during the Obama years when even factories didn't have ammo a lot of the time. Even today I often find it more time-efficient to buy factory. Last I spent close to $100 on factory shotgun and rifle ammo, because it saved money compared to me handloading comparable loads.

I reload because I enjoy it and take satisfaction from bagging an animal from ammo I spent time contemplating and developing. I can’t get get that out of factory ammo.

I've gotten to the point I generally buy factory for my "basic" cartridges such as 30/30, 308, 30/06, etc as price during sales, counting rebates, puts roughly in the same range as I can load it. I do load some of these rounds but in versions I don't find on store shelves. I do a fair bit of rifle reloading but it is for either those rounds which are no longer made, not commonly found, and/or are pretty expensive such as 25 Rem, 358 Win, or 416 Rigby as examples.

I load the majority of my handgun ammo, except for 9mm I can beat factory prices by a significant amount. 38 Spl used to be pretty cheap but it is pretty expensive these days so it gets reloaded regularly.

12 ga target loads are not worth reloading in 1 1/8 oz as it is less than 50 cents difference from factory and even the cheapest factory will be more than sufficient for the majority of uses. I still load 12 ga target loads but in 7/8 oz as they aren't readily available in the store and, still using lead I bought for less than $20/bag or reclaimed shot, can be under $3/box. For local registered or league sporting clays, skeet, and trap back to 22-23 yard handicap these loads work just fine. Hunting loads of 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 oz are reloaded as I can handily beat factory prices using magnum shot.

20 ga is much like 12 though one can realize greater savings as factory pricing is similar to 12 ga but the 20 uses less shot which is the major cost. I load 3/4 oz for targets to save a little more.

One sees significant savings if they shoot 28 or 410 much. Saving $6/box is not difficult and that can add up quickly. 16 ga can save a bit more than with the 12 ga but the greater value is having a greater load selection than factory. Same for 10 ga but even more so.

It really depends on the particular situation if reloading makes sense. Starting from scratch to load 12 ga target loads, 9mm, or some of the common rifle rounds may not be cost effective but for other choices it may be the best if not only option.

Just read Muledeer's post and saw he bought Hornady American Whitetail 139 gr 7-08 ammo for $22 a box. Good deal...BUT.... Out of curiosity, I checked Midway and they are listing it on sale for $17.19 per box of 20.(Not including shipping.) That's super cheap. You pretty much get cases for that.

Midway does not ship ammo to my fair state of Massachusetts, otherwise I'd buy 5 or 10 boxes. So have at it guys.

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I’d agree that 3 M O A is adequate for 90 yd shooting. If you’re satisfied...
whatever floats your boat.


Jerry

I recall several years ago I found 3 rounds of 308 at the range in the brass bucket..loaded....they were hornady sst...had a light primer strike...since I use hornady brass I took them home to pull the bullets...I thought it would be fun to weigh the charges and shoot them for group...so I pulled the bullets and the powder charges were almost a full grain different...I re primed them and reset the bullets...then shot them for group and over a coronagraph....to my amazement there was only 10 fps spread and went into about 3/4 group...
Not bad I was surprised...can't explain it but I know they have thousands of blends of powder that we don't have access to..
I handload everything but do believe the factory makes some good stuff now days..

The premise of this thread is retarded.

I ask a corolarry question: why bother going hunting when it's cheaper to buy meat at the store?

Right! I never want to pencil out the price of a pound of elk! Yikes!

I hand load because I enjoy it, not saving money when you factor in time spent. Also, I have several rifles that ammo is either hard to find with the right bullet or plain expensive. Weatherby magnums, .35 Whelen, 250-3000 Savage, .358 Winchester, & .257 Roberts come to mind. The .30-06 and .308 Win not so much.

Simple. This thread points out that if your time is money you may be saving both by just buying Store ammo. And the thread was well worth that realization. Now I don't have to feel so guilty that my reloading stuff is collecting dust for the last 2 years.

I got into reloading in 97 while I was stationed in Kodiak. I got into it because winters there are long and I needed something to pass my time and because 35 Whelen, 45-70 and 257 Roberts were not readily available and weren't available at all with the bullets I wanted. Now it's just a way to kill time on a rainy day. And still, most of what I load isn't available commercially.

The savings depend a lot on what you need to buy. Yesterday I loaded some 45-70 with 300 gr. Sierra bullets. The cost worked out to $15 plus labor per box of 20. For that cartridge it made sense. Loading for .30-30, 308, 270 or .30-'06 makes less financial sense, but I do it anyway.

It depends on the components in your handloads, in some instances factory ammo featuring the same components may be cheaper. After 45 yrs. I still handload because I enjoy it.

A few years ago I shot a 5x5 bull on my hill behind my house. I cut him in half and was able to drag him home by myself. I do all of my butchering myself, and when I grind the burger I add 10% beef fat. The cost of the fat at a local grocery store was $1 per pound for a total of $14. My Montana geezer elk tag was $12 and one of my .300 Weatherby 168 grain Barnes TSX reloads cost $1. So that elk cost me $27.

Now if I were to factor in my property taxes on the hill behind my house... beef at the grocery store is way cheaper.

I enjoy it too, and in addition, the factory ammo I've tried has seldom given the accuracy my handoads do, even back when I was much less sophisticated and well-equipped. The Hornady ELD-X loads I bought as a benchmark load for my 6 Creed are a recent example. All my handloads grouped better, which surprised me. Barrett uses the ELD-M load for testing, so I may try those at some point if I find them on sale. The best factory load I've used lately has been the Fiocchi .223 40gr VMax. Good stuff!

For me, it started out as a necessity, that is, if I was going to shoot. At $8.95/box, those Upland game loads in 16ga were expensive back in my college days. For Christmas, my boss gave me a $30 gift certificate and an older Mec 600 16 gauge reloader and I was off and running.
I started loading for centerfire cartridges my senior year in college when a friend had to move and left me all of his gear. I mainly wanted to shoot more than I could by buying a box of shells at a time.

I learned as I went along and started loading some pretty good rifle rounds. Then I started loading for my Dad's 30-06 so he could shoot more often with me. As I picked up new rifles and different cartridges I kept it up. Same with shotguns.

Now, I don't look at how much it costs/round or any of that. I enjoy it. The challenge of making rounds that meet or exceed my goal is just one part of the enjoyment. Though for shotguns and some of my cartridges, cost per round still plays a factor. When I knew I would be leaving the rep business, I made it a point that any time one of my dealers had a sale on lead shot below $20 a bag, I'd pick up a bag or two. Add in the reclaimed shot a friend pulled out of his range and when I moved back to Texas I had about a ton of lead shot. I'd picked up enough Rem hulls in 12 and 20 and one of my last purchases was 15,000 209 primers. Last time I figured out my costs I was loading 12 and 20 gauge for $1.97 per box.

And, if I want to shoot at least one of my rifles, it's purely a reloading expedition. I haven't seen a box of 256 Newton on the shelf at a store in my life.

Interesting that you would mention that. In my Barrett Fieldcraft 6.5 Creed, the factory ELD-X load is the least accurate factory load I have tried, and the factory ELD-M is tied for the most accurate load.

I don't really enjoy the process of handloading myself. I really only do it to get the performance I want, if I can't find a factory load that uses the bullet I like, etc. Perhaps I will enjoy it more when I retire and have more time on my hands. In the meantime, I would rather spend the hour+ it takes to load a couple of boxes of ammo actually hunting, or shooting, or working dogs. If I figure out the cost of a box of handloaded ammo with my time involved, at my normal hourly rate, it is way cheaper to buy factory ammo.

If all I wanted to shoot was factory equivalent jacketed bullet ammo in my motley collection of CF's ranging from .22 Hornet to '06 (and every niche in between, some niches filled multiple times), then yes I would question my need to handload. But the bulk of my shooting 50 weeks out of 52 is with cast bullets, with a bunch of jacketed stuff consumed immediately prior to hunting season in those rifles that won't actually go afield with cast loads. When the factories start offering me an infinitely varied selection of cast loads for the cost of what I pay for primers and small powder charges (my lead is free- I have a couple tons of the stuff, nearly all of which I acquired for free over the years) then I may well consider dropping the folderol of handloading. Or not. Until then I go merrily along loading my hundred rounds of .30-30's for about the cost of a 20-box at Walmart.

(And yes, being an old fart with plenty of time on my hands factors in. After all, what's time to a pig?)

I've been reloading since I picked up my first CF rifle. We all know the benefits of more accurate hand tailored loads for each individual firearm, and the entertainment value of shooting to discover that "Most Accurate Load". But all of that aside, I still enjoy my time sitting in front of my reloader, maybe listening to some favorite music, clearing my mind of all the days "Important Business", and totally relaxing into my world of guns and bullets. Money doesn't really play much of a role in my decision to reload.

Chet,

It's interesting how various factory loads can shoot so differently in individual rifles--but that's really no different than how various handloads shoot in individual rifles. In fact, for several years I've suspected the improved accuracy of today's handloads isn't so much due to our loading-room efforts, but today's very well-balanced hunting bullets, some of which match "match" bullets.

This fall I sighted-in several of my big game rifles with factory loads, in anticipation of various possible hunts (which can happen in Montana with all the tags available. All the factory stuff grouped into an inch or less (often much less) in that particular rifle. But of course, when it came down to killing the final deer that topped off the freezer, I used a handload....

I well remember the time when I had to squeeze in working up a load, testing it, and then loading up a bunch for hunting. In those days it took more than an hour to get to a range, so whatever powder charge shot the best with the bullet I'd settled on ended up in the rest of the cases I had prepped, and that was my load until I got down to something less than a box. Even with that flawed process, my stuff usually bested run-of-the-mill factory stuff from back then.

Another thing that keeps me loading is the ever-present threat of another political ammo and component drought. If it happens again, I can keep on shooting and hunting, and so can the fruit of my loins. Might not have exactly what I want, but it'll go bang and make meat.

You live in the land of the free and the home of the brave. Being on the periphery - Canada - makes handloading a necessity, if you shoot a lot. I have often said that I feel like the poor cousin. We get your cast offs, so being able to make your own is important if you want to shoot regularly.

When you guys are suffering from shortages, that means we get virtually nothing. About 20 years ago, the short supplies convinced me to make my own bullets - both jacketed and lead. I suspect, having read these boards for many years, that while shortages definitely affect you, components and loaded cartridges can be had if you look. That's not the case up here.

Not being able to get factory cartridges or components means there is no such thing as 'which is better?'

What I am saying is, count your blessings. Someone always has it worse.

I load for almost all of the stated reasons plus 1 or 2 .

I like to shoot but do not like the recoil of the 300 win, etc.

So I load lighter bullets at say 30-30 level and enjoy it.

I also like to shoot cast. I shoot it in every cal. that i shoot.

Sometimes I surprise myself how well it will shoot by just trying a new powder.

I shoot most cast at 50 yards but when I had a load shoot so well I moved it out to 100 and still shot a 2 inch group with my 1895 Win in 30-40.
Icall that a good day.

I have a life times worth of bullets, primers, and powders from an estate sale ans enough various brass to sink a small boat .All I have is time

You’re not capturing your costs correctly.

How much did your reloading equipment cost? Rifle? What cost do you put on your time? How much space in your home does your reloading equipment occupy?





P

I have been reloading since around 1970, as nearly as I can figure. I got some reloading stuff for Christmas, as I had shown interest in it. My dad was not a hunter/re-loader, so I have no idea where my interest came from. Anyway, I got a Bair press, scale and powder trickler. The scale went away, but I am still using the Bair press and powder trickler. Many years ago, I got an RCBS 10-10 scale from my father-in-law. I still use it. I also, many years ago, bought a Lyman case cleaner-which I also still use. I added an RCBS powder measure for a super deal from Walmart a year or so ago, and got rid of my old one which was also RCBS. SO, overall, I have very little invested in reloading equipment, all functions well and I buy bullets and brass, when I get good deals. I buy very little brass new.

I have almost never shot any factory ammo. I just cannot justify buying it and hoping it shoots well in my rifles, when I can just spin up a load, step outside and test it on my own shooting range. I have absolutely nothing against factory ammo, as I have seen some (American Whitetail among it) that shoots just as good as my hand loads. Unless the demoturds manage to ban the sale of components, I will continue to roll my own.

As to shotgun, I got interested in it, in the early 80's, when I lived in Arizona and hunted quail with my father-in-law. There had been many wet years and there were millions of quail. My father-in-law bought me a Mec setup, after I had mixed results with my Lee loader that I bought from a friend. We loaded and shot hundreds of rounds every year on quail. My fil had a neighbor that had a friend in California (back when it was still part of the United States). He could get us reclaimed shot for $25/100 pounds. We shot gobs of that stuff over the years that I lived there. Now, I hardly every shoot shotgun, except an occasional goose hunt, or turkey. I almost gave away my Mec re-loader and components, as I had zero use for them. For the shotgunning that I do now, factory is plenty fine-even just to shoot a few clay pigeons.

Whether rifle, or shotgun, if anyone asks me if it is worth getting into reloading at this point, I generally say "no". By the time you invest a lot of money buying the equipment-just the basic stuff-plus all of the components, it just does pencil out to the average guy that makes an occasional trip to the range, or hunting trips. If it is your hobby, passion, or whatever you want to call it, then it is a different story and the expense does not mean much. It is written off as "entertainment", just like a vacation or anything else. The choices in bullets, that are in factory ammo is really good now, too.

As far as comparing hunting to buying meat, it depends. I kill A LOT of deer very near my house every year. It easily pencils out as cheaper, for the most part. An elk hunt, not so much, USUALLY. For several years, I hunted with a buddy over in Colorado, for cow elk. At that time, the permit was fairly inexpensive and we split the gas and food. We camped out. I actually figured out the cost of those hunts and it was at, or below the cost of beef in the store. It is difficult to do that now, but I have pretty nearly broken even on a couple cow hunts in Wyoming-close enough to have made the trip worth it, even without all the fun.

Reload if you want the fun of doing it, but it is real hard to justify the expense now, for the most part.

Interesting. I have never thought of Canada as the poor cousin, but more like the favorite (or favourite) kid that doesn't move out until they are 30.

I usually handload but found that Shooters Pro Shop marked down the 7mm08 ammo with their 140 grain E-tip, and with 10% off it came to $22.50 a box. So I bought some and decided to use it this fall. Worked fine on a mule deer at 310 yards and a cow elk at 370 yards. Pretty accurate stuff. So I’ll just shoot up my remaining handloads and then hunt with the factory ammo ping pong balls...

THANKS John!

Very good article! This just about says it all. I have never killed any game with factory ammo. I've always reloaded since age 10(57 years ago) because all of my buddies dads reloaded
and were military vets just like my dad. As I grow older I grow weary of reloading and have decided to just sometimes buy one box of ammo for a hunt and forget it(maybe). I purchased my first RCBS Jr. Press in 1966 two years after I came home from the U.S. Army. It has served me well for 43 years. I also own a Foresters Press and a Pacific Press which is now made by Hornady. I have never killed any game with my two 30-06 rifles. I have decided to lay down the .270 Win. calibers I have used for 57 years and be a patriot and use the 30-06
for some of my hunting. All of my childhood friends have used the 30-06 for a lifetime just as I have used the .270 for a lifetime.

Thanks for the good info!

roanmtn

I never consider the cost between the two, as HANDLOADING is just too much fun!

I do it cause I enjoy it, not to save money. Using factory ammo feels kind of creepy to me, like I'm too lazy to work up a good load. Most of my rifles are customs or semi customs and while they may shoot factory ammo OK, I've never seen an instance where I couldn't improve upon the accuracy with tailored handloads. As a bonus I shoot a lot more.

One thing I've noticed is that guys who handload miss a lot less than guys that shoot factory ammo.

humm, really ?

Wonder why ?


Jerry

I remember back when I was a young-un, watching a fellow interviewing Joe Namath as he was wrapping/taping what was left of his knees for a game in his twilight of his remarkable career. The interviewer ask Broad Way Joe, "Why" do you do this. You have nothing to prove. You will always be remembered as one the greats. Joe looked up and said with out missing a beat, and responded "Love of the Game".

Thats why I hand load. Love of the game. I don't look at it from a financial or accuracy stand point as much as a rewarding enjoyable hobby. I am not so arrogant to think factory stuff will always be inferior to my loads, but its increasingly difficult or impossible to find certain cartridges on store shelves, like 257 Bob...303 Savage.

3 MOA is for the shooter who is shooting against the clock. It's not for the rifle and ammo. A shooter who can consistently deliver 3 MOA out to 200 yards in a hurry is a pretty rare bird, and will get the job done far more often than not.


Okie John

Okie John

Good point--which is why I shoot a LOT of rimfire ammo--which can be handloaded, but requires even more time than centerfire ammo.

I like to handload, but like to shoot even more. And I can shoot a lot, because of living in a part of the country where shooting doesn't require a 2-3 hour round trip.

The original question wasn't about whether we prefer to handload, but whether there's any economic advantage. That depends on whether we consider time in the loading room, vehicle fuel and wear, and our own time.

But even if we disregard those factors, these days often shooting factory centerfire ammo is just as cheap as handloading, especially if we sell the fired brass to those who prefer to reload.

They do now......sent you a PM.

When I put 3 x 6.5 Creed rounds in 1.8 inches at 500 yards, using the Horny 143 ELDX Precision Hunter at $26 per box, hand loading stopped making sense.