I know that the Boers(Afrikaans) and Bell used the 7x57 with around 175gn full metal Jacket round nose bullets. Most probably used Milsurp, except bell, who used Rigby and Mauser factory ammo. BTW, I understand that he never used soft points. By The early '20s spire pointed soft point hunting ammo was available. Does anyone know what the predominate 7x57 bullets weight and bullet type were used by sportsmen, between the wars? capt david

If I recall correctly I believe it was the 173 grain soft and solid. 11.2 grams or 172.8 grains if you want to be precise. There were also 162s and 139s available but since the military 173 solid was a round nose I think that got the most use even by Bell. The 139s were reputed to be erratic and were claimed to have gotten some people into trouble (esp in the Ross cartridge and rifle). But this was when riding down lions was a popular sport with the goal to induce a charge and then dismount and fire at said lion. Don't try this at home.

Bell did say, "Never did a soft nose bullet pollute that perfect barrel." The late Finn Aagaard said his father once took on two cattle killing lions with his 7x57 and 175 gr. bullets. I don't recall if he said they were softs or solids. In his book"Hunting in the Northwest" circa 1948, Clyde Ormond once called the 7x57 with 175 gr. bullets, "A powerful rifle.". The said he shot a Black bear with his and lost the bear. I believe "Gayana" AKA Don Heath did a decent article on the 7x57 in Africa. Sometimes I think it's too bad Sierra dropped their 170 gr. round nose and Hornady I believe has also dropped their 175 gr. round nose. A pox on their bean counters.
Paul B.

Truesdell’s book , The Rifle: It’s Development For Big Game Hunting , really outlines what hunters used what calibers and gives insight into their preferred loads .
It’s dated but a fun read if you are into the technical side of Africana . If you haven’t read it I recommend it relevant to your topic

How come we get blamed for everything? We just crunch the numbers; "management" makes the decisions.

RM
CPA Cert No. 17643 (retired)

Rev,
Technically correct but the business world invented a detriment called the "CFO" and then made the mistake of giving this position senior executive rank which means a seat at the decision table.
This is a major flaw in providing customers a product that is marketable.
It is the reason why good companies close and lesser plants survive during a resize.
John
PS; Long live the 7mm Mauser/7x57/.275 Rigby.

True, but most of the CFOs I know aren't/weren't CPAs. We never had the personality for it!

But all I did for almost 30 years was estate and trust work, so I take no blame whatsoever.

Back on point for this thread: there's a good discussion of this, at least as far as Bell is concerned, on the AR site.

Oh, and a hearty Amen!

I will second that! 7x57s FOREVER!

The Truesdell book is a fantastic resource. Catalog reprints from Cornell offer lots of pearls as well.

Not sure of the vintage of this ammo but...

Bell did most of his hunting prior to WW1. Mauser (DWM) was doing a lot 7x57 business primarily with South American countries at that time - Model 98 versions such as 1908 Brazilian, 1909 Argentine and other countries 1904/07 Paraguay/Spain/China. Germany produced a lot of this 7x57 ammunition which you could buy direct or through Rigby. Bell used the 173 gr. nickel steel full case military round for 7x57 on all game but he also used the 215gr nickel steel full case 303 British for elephants and all other game.

He used both to good effect on elephant and cape buffalo but for lion and other game, soft points would've been better. He recalled a crossing shot on a running lion that seemed to take no effect until the lion ran another 100 yards. Bell hunted remote areas at a time when much of the game had limited experience with being hunted and he was obviously a very good hunter and very good shot. Although he killed a lot of buffalo with a 7x57, he could not recall being charged by one, even while tracking in heavy cover. Bell stopped hunting when WW1 started and then his old standby ammo was difficult or impossible to get. German arms factories were shut down after 1918 and the 303 military ammo had changed to the 174 gr spitzer full metal case at the beginning of WW1. Both of these bullets were actually outdated at the time Bell was using them. The 173/7x57 RN "solid" remained until the bitter end because it worked in small ring Model 92, 93 & 95 Mausers as well as the Model 98 variants such as the South American models mentioned above.

I think just before WW1 the Spanish arsenals started loading a 140 grain spitzer for military purposes that had a velocity of 2800 fps (some say 2900). It was only safe/suitable for Model 98 variants and I think Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil used it. Probably Mauser, Kynoch, Winchester and Norma were loading 7x57 soft point ammo at that time, both the 140 and 175 grain sporting ammo. British sporting ammo was probably much better at that time and good sporting solids and softs could be bought. Bell mentions using mostly 318 Westley Richards between the wars but i think he still made use of 7x57 and 303. He also liked 6.5 mannlicher but the ammo was less available, less reliable and he said the solids tended to bend when impacting heavy bone.

Would that bullet possibly be a Winchester silvertip?

It sure looks like one.

"PS; Long live the 7mm Mauser/7x57/.275 Rigby."

Amen! I say to you, amen! amen!
PJ

I shot an impala once with a Ruger #1 in 7x57 loaded with a 175 gr Hornady that belonged to my PH. Shot him at the base of the throat while he was facing me and we recovered the bullet at the root of the tail. Needless to say it tipped him right over.

I believe I read somewhere that the 9X57MM had more of a liking in Africa than the 7X57MM did

That's a nice Impala there.

Were the solids that we are referring to made from? Some hard metal other than lead?

I would imagine a 170-175 grain bullets at 7x57 velocities would penetrate well and not be too explosive, even if they were just thinly jacketed FMJs.

In hindsight a century later, I can’t imagine shooting at an African lion with a 139 grain bullet of any sort.