I started hunting with a 870 but don't have now would you buy a current 870 for waterfowl ?

Not a gun writer, but no I would not buy one. Especially the Express model. I might consider a new Wingmaster 870, but would look very closely at it and would not buy sight unseen. They are not what they used to be. I would look for a decent used older model 870.

I have not looked at them in the last few years, but over my lifetime this is my favorite shotgun. I have auto's and over/unders that cost much more but I am just able to hit more consistently with this shotgun than any other. bought my son an express a few years ago and he has no complaints.

I have a Browning BPS that I call a POS, would take an 870 of any era over it.

^^^This^^^

The quality control has really fell at Remington in the last 5 years or so. I’d look for a really clean user 80’s or 90’s model if it was me. They can be had really reasonably.

I don't worry about it. Have one of the earliest made.

Not a chance. Look for an older model. IMO, the quality has slid pretty far downhill

They started to cheapen them with the first Express models in the late 80's.
It has been a continuing process. A new one would probably be a functioning gun.
But they have taken a gun designed to be built cheaply from steel, and now it has plastic
and pot metal.

NO!

I have two Wingmasters from the late 70's and an Express from 2010 and functionaly there is no difference.
The Wingmaster is finished nicer and if you can find a nice one for a good price buy it. For knocking around the duck marsh the Express would be fine.

No way....I'd take a Benelli Nova before i would touch a current 870.

Nope.

Bought my first about 1972. Have witnessed the decline ever since. My son's SP Synthetic, purchased in 97, has been a solid gun. Later Express models were noticeably crappier, with plastic trigger guards, and the 20ga Youth had to be loaded very carefully to avoid having a shell get wedged under the carrier, a major PITA to clear.

I'd look for a nice higher grade early model if I really wanted one, but after owning one for a bit, I'd much prefer an Ithaca 37, either one from the 60s, or a new production one from Sandusky. Those aren't cheap, but appear to be of very high quality.

All that said, my shotgun needs are all being very well handled by a nice A5 with Brileys added to its 30" VR barrel. THAT's a shotgun!

Only the Wingmaster. I've heard too many issues with the cheaper models.

I've bought a couple current model 870s recently and am about to buy a few more. I've had no issues with them. They've all functioned like they're supposed to.

I just bought two in the last year for grandkids... 20 ga Youth Express and am certain, based on others I have been dealing with for a long time they will function just fine. The 870 rattle is designed to make them work even when sloppy.

Curiously, the two I just got do not have production date stamps???

The OP asked about the 870, but for waterfowel, I would recommend a Beretta semi.
Lighter than a newer 870, kick less also,
cheaper, and lighter reoiling than a Benelli.
Pappy's A5 would be the ultimate traditional
waterfowl auto. Assuming the old A5, not the new one.

I was low bid on a NIB 870 Express at a live auction a couple of years ago. I'd gone looking for one for Angus for a turkey gun. Angus loves his. He's filled all his tags with no problem, and also has used it for clays. I've also got an 870 TB Trap from the mid-80's. Both shotguns work equally well.

I have a mid 50's Wingmaster in 20 ga that was my Uncle's.....that era is what I'd be looking for vs new. Gorgeous

I won one about 15 or 20 years ago. It didn’t impress me...don’t remember if I ever shot it. Gave it to a nephew.

I grew up with Ithaca 37’s and have always felt that they were a better gun...slicker functioning, much sweeter handling.

It all depends upon which model 870 you're considering. The Wingmaster is the higher end version and is a nice shotgun. The express is the cheaper model. I wouldn't recommend the express. Your best bet would be to look for a used Wingmaster. A much better made gun than the express.

I don't know why you would consider paying such a high price for a new Rem 870 when they are so many older Rem 870's to choose from on the used market. The chrome lifter models ( pre-1970) do have a cult-like following among Rem 870 collector's which claim the chrome lifter guns were essentially hand-built Not sure if this hand-built claim is justified yet in the gun world some opinions eventually become fact.

To my knowledge, you can order you can order any 870 replacement parts from Remington today which will fit any Rem 870 regardless of the year it was made with the exception I believe the extractor has been changed to a beefier profile.

For bird shooting meaning a fast swinging shotgun, the "Light contour" barrels made for the Rem 870 ( and Rem 1100) will let you think you are shooting a fine English built shotgun. A light contour barrel would be an enjoyable addition to an 870 for upland hunting or on the clay bird field.

The Rem 870 one of the few Remington built guns which have never had a factory recall for some issue. Neither has the Remington 1100 but there was a class action suit on Rem 1100 barrels in the late 80's for the amount of steel or rather lack of steel used in Rem 1100 production barrels.

There is supposedly one or two Remington 870 Trap guns in the ATA trapshooting Hall of Fame that are reputed to have 1 million rounds shot in them from "Hall of Fame" trapshooters from the past. Enough said.

I had an Ithaca 37 and I will take an 870 Wingmaster over the Ithaca or the Winchester model 12 (had that one too) all day everyday. As a matter of fact if there was a law that you could only own one long gun (perish the thought) I would pick the Remington 870 Wingmaster 12 gauge.

i've got a Ithaca 37 made in 50's 20ga love it, i've had to many 870 that went junk on me including that 870 that had the straight stock and vent rib barrel 21'' try stripping one down in a duck marsh. my buddy has a wing master from the 1950's and works like a champ!

I have more than a few older Wingmasters from the 70-80's timeframe and like them very well. In 1994 I was looking to replace a 20 ga. 870 Wingmaster Special Field that had a 21" barrel, it just swung to fast. I shot a lot of skeet trying to get used to it but that short barrel cost me to many sharptails and roosters. I tried about every configuration of 20 ga Wingmaster you can imagine I ended up buying a 26" barreled 20ga Express, it had the best balance of all them in 20 ga. I've shot thousands of shells thru it with no problems from the gun. Sometimes if you reload your Federal hulls too many times and hot you can get enlargement of the hull rim diameter that makes it sticky coming out of the magazine thru the port in the receiver. Cure for that is simple, make sure your hulls aren't past serviceability. The gun of course felt and was rough at first but is as smooth as any 870 now. The facts are while it is nowhere as good a looking a gun as a Wingmaster I've sure shot a lot of birds and skeet with it. One of the items on a Express that needs immediate att'n and replacement is the rock hard original recoil pad for a R3 or Limbsaver type to make it more enjoyable for your use. I don't think any of us older guys really appreciate the way time has decreases the quality of really nice guns and increased the price of them by our dollars being worth less value. The gunmakers cheapened guns up to compete and keep their market share. IMHO if you want the best value in an 870 find a 94-95 version with Rem chokes and the Light Contour barrel. for general all a round use. MB

1967, Belgian of course.

I bought an express. Best deal for the money out there. It is a little rough but the more you shoot it the smoother it becomes. I put hogue stocks on mine and it has had thousands of rounds through it with out a single hiccup

I have an Express from the late 90's and although it's not beautiful it works great. It's all steel. I don't know about the current production versions.

My Express was one of the first years, also, Rem chokes were new.

It WAS part of a class action suit.
I didn't take anything. I never had any trouble.

^^^ This ^^^

Yep, Remington had to replace a BUNCH of barrels. Seems they were making them out of cheap Mexican steel and had a habit of bursting.

I don't know about current production, but I wouldn't trade any of my three Wingmasters for any other pump shotgun made. I have three 16 gauge corn cob models with the newest one born in 1953. Two have 26" improved cylinder barrels while the other has a 26" modified barrel. All three work flawlessly today as they did the day each came off the production line. I have no idea how many shells have been shot through them over the years. My son has my Father's deluxe 16 gauge he bought new in 1953 as well as another with an improved cylinder barrel.

No

I do really like the 870, have owned several and one still in the house. Several folks I know have the newer ones, not the same as the older ones. Express models I know of are trouble and rough as a cob. I also have Ithaca model 37's in 20 gauge, a featherlite and an English Ultra. They would be the last ones to leave. Have two Browning BPS in 12 gauge, needed ones for steel shot with removeable chokes. No issues with these and seem very well made, kind of like the old Wingmaster used to be.

I'd certainly shy away from a new Express, rough chambers. Haven't heard of this problem with the Wingmaster. New ones are pricey though. Better off with a clean old used one.

The two Youth Express models in front of me are both bright and shiny smooth in the chambers...

New one, used one, whatever........there is a reason they are America's best selling best selling pump shotgun. I grew up shooting a Winchester Model 12 20 gauge, and thought it was the cats meow, which it was at one time. I've since owned and shot 870's, Mossberg's, Winchester's, Ithaca's, and BPS's. The 870 was the best of the bunch. I currently have a Winchester 1300 that I really like, with one exception......it has a horrible trigger pull. It's a turkey gun, and I've had it for years. I also have a youth model 870 in 20 gauge that I also turkey hunt with. While it's not as "slick" as some older 870's I've had, it's a typical 870.......it works. The safety is in the right place too.....in the trigger guard.

Okay. I see there are lots of 870 Express haters. What are the specific issues that everyone seems to have with the Express models?

Supposedly not as smooth, not as good of parts. I am sure that they are same parts with a different finish. I have had em both although in older models and can't tell a nickles difference.

Express has a cheap wood stock and the rough matte finish, kind of a BDL to Sportsman difference but you don't see anybody complain that the Sportsman 78 was a POS.

THE Express and older Special Purpose models were the same it was just that the Special Purpose had a nicer matte finish Walnut stock, I even saw a few Expresses in the late 90s with Walnut stock/forearms.

Pump gun work can be smooth and slick, it is directly related and proportional to the skill and ability of the operator. In 1949 Rudy Etchen bought one of the 1 st 870's ever off the line and shot it till his passing in 2001. The gun had over 1 million rds thru it. Rudy owns the 1 st ever 100 straight in doubles with a pump at the Grand American. Bad mouthing 870's to me rates ones credibility not to high. Over the years of using them I've seen more operator caused problems than real ones. MB

What they read on the internet....

There are some plastic pieces in the Express trigger group. I have never seen one fail there.

I would avoid 870s recently manufactured. Older 870s are excellent shotguns. I had a recent production and it would continually lick up, I traded it off. My friends, who guide geese hunting trips, have witnessed numerous problems with 870s produced in the last ten years. My favorite gun smith advises folks looking for an 870 to find an older one. I now avoid anything Remington like the plague.

They are not as slick as the old guns.
And it has nothing to do with the operator, it is the in the
manufacturing of the gun.

I have two Expresses One of the first, 28" barrel came with a modified
tube. And one of the first 21" Turkey Express models. They have always
worked, but rough. I tore therm down, and polished everything that rubs when it moves.
Helped a lot.


Also, that finish, it rusts like crazy.
If you are diligent, it can mostly be avoided.
But, hunting turkeys, I tend to somewhat neglect a shotgun.
It lives in the truck, and gets used for several weeks, usually
getting wet. They won't stand for that. They will actually show rust
in one day. Have to baby the ugly things.

And there is the real problem, honestly stated...

Two words...

Kry and Lon!

I have come to the conclusion that 99.9% of those bashing Remington's have never owned one, and it's the same way with any other product. Are there Remington firearms that don't meet expectations...........of course, but given the fact that they make so many, there are bound to be unsatisfied customers.

I worked in public long enough to know that there are some customers that you can never please, no matter how hard you try. Then there are others that will practically accept anything and be happy. The firearms industry is no different. Some customers expect a $500 factory gun to be equal to a $5000 custom one, and then there are those that are completely happy with anything that goes bang when you pull the trigger.

I've got an 870 here that doesn't eject worth a damn. It's been back to Remington 3 times and still won't eject dependably with any brand of ammuntition. They've replaced the barrel, extractor, complete bolt assembly and "tuned" the ejector spring and still it chokes about one out of every 15-25 shots and the rest barely clear the ejection port like a baby dribbling pureed peas down it's chin. After the third time back to Remington and still no joy, I asked for a refund and was told "we don't do refunds". The useless POS sits in the back of the safe to this day. Brand new, less than 200 rounds fired through it and I won't sell it because I won't pawn such a worthless POS off on somebody else. No, I'll never buy another Remington of any model. I don't need anymore useless junk peddled by slobs who won't stand behind it. Maybe I'll make a lamp out of this one.

I think there are better choices.

I can't honestly recommend the Remington 870 or their 1100. My now ex-wife's 1100, 20 ga. broke first the extractor, then, later, the ejector failed. And that was a gun made in the 90's. My favorite 870, a 28 ga., has also gone down the road. Why ? As it came from the factory, it wouldn't feed the rounds from the magazine reliably. Later, I found out the barrel was slightly bent. That jammed a choke tube in it. Both fixed at a factory repair station free of charge. Then a couple of years later, on the trap range, the barrel came off as I worked the action. With it came the bolt, and internal parts. When the gunsmith, again a factory authorized repair station, couldn't explain why it happened. Told me not to disassemble it for cleaning. He had to tighten the forend nut with a wrench.... That broke my confidence in the shotgun. I sold it. E

I have had an 870 Express Super Mag since the early 2000's. It has been used as a push pole, boat paddle, nutria club, and bounced around in the bottom of a boat ALLOT. I even knocked out one of the pins from the trigger assembly once to use as a shear pin in an outboard motor to get us back to the ramp. The only complaint I have ever had is that the finish on it did rust pretty easily. It was a little rough back when I first got it but it smoothed up with use pretty quickly. It has a better recoil pad on it now and a rattle can paint job fixed the rusting issue. I guess I got a good one as I have never had a problem with mine.

I purchased the Express as I wanted a rough duty waterfowl piece that I did not worry about getting dinged up and would work in nasty conditions. It has fit that purpose well for me.

Classic Southern ingenuity there! Laughing!

Two words...

Kry and Lon!
[/quote]


I just can't!


Have considered Ceracote.
Pretty hard to put a $200 finish on a $189 gun.
I keep it oiled, and it is a cheapie.


Now as to the Weatherby Vanguard I bought in 1984, with saved lunch money and
money from mowing lawns all day for $5? The F'n thing cost $320. And it will rust
almost as fast as the Express. And I am still bitter!

Duracoat works very well if you don't want to spend all that much.

I just can't!


Have considered Ceracote.
Pretty hard to put a $200 finish on a $189 gun.
I keep it oiled, and it is a cheapie.


Now as to the Weatherby Vanguard I bought in 1984, with saved lunch money and
money from mowing lawns all day for $5? The F'n thing cost $320. And it will rust
almost as fast as the Express. And I am still bitter![/quote]



Put me in the camp of the completely unimpressed with Cerakote. I have seen significant wear on rifle on just one Kodiak bear hunt... I have seen hard corners showing color in less than a year of light duty... both applied by a name smith with lots of Cerakote experience.

Not sure what happened to drop the quote box?

Might have been my fault.

I was deleting unnecessary material, and deleted too much.
Then I was too lazy to start again, and figgured screw it, it'll be ok.

The design of the 870 is sound. For the price it is a work horse.
It also has many outside suppliers making cool add on or upgrade parts.
If your into a fine polish and deep blue an older one might be your best bet. (look very carefully at the Staking of the spring steel inserts inside any 870 Action you buy used)
But most of my uses for the pump don't need fancy blue. As stated before a good wipe with corrosion x or whatever won the, "best of the cans test on rusting" should keep your Rem express pump in the game.
If you really want some happiness spend the dollars on the trigger upgrade kit. Even better, the older full machined Timney Trigger assemblies are very nice for trap targets. But will cost you nearly the price of the Express to get one.
A Bill Davis Enterprises stock set is also a nice upgrade if your trying to get your flying targets to intersect where your eye is looking.
So many choices.
Still working after all these years, even with the changes at the factory build table.
Also a fan of the rattle can modifications on job specific units where necessary for your hunt.

My son's SP Synthetic has a good quality plastic stock, and the finish is far and away better than any of the three Express models we bought later. It's a brownish gray, appears to be Parkerized, and is a smooth matte, not that sandpapery mess. Been a good gun from day-one (1997). The lammy stocks on the Express models seemed soft, not the usual rock-hard birch or whatever I see on other stocks. Bean-counters hard at work, no doubt.

870s are a great design, fallen on hard times. Doubt I'll be buying any more shotguns, but a nice one from days gone by is well worth having. Wish I had my 70-ish slug gun back. Ithacas are lighter, and fit and point better for me, and the old design is a clever machined steel wonder. I'd like to see a new one, but even their "dealers" apparently don't stock them, just place orders.

Get yourself a new 870 Express and a Wal-Mart bulk pack of Winchester shells and spend the afternoon knocking out empties with a cleaning rod. Woo-Hoo!

I was weened on Wingmasters from the 1960's and early 1970's and agree they're of better quality than the Wingmasters of today and far better than the Express and SP models. For me it's not a functional thing, but rather a fit/finish thing. The wood on the older Wingmasters was a lot better. I liked the looks better when they had the white line spacers for the recoil pad and grip cap. The ribs on the older ones were fit better and the wood/metal fit was better at the receiver. The Express and SP models are made more toa price point and I get that so I don't knock them for the tupperware furniture.

Still own two vintage Wingmasters, one being 20ga which was my first repeating shotgun and the other being my dad's 12ga 870TB which i Inherited. In 1998 I purchased a new 870 SP that never gave me any issues in the 8-9 years that I had it. In 2011 I purchased a 12ga 870 Synthetic 7-Round for home defense and it runs just fine and has never given me any trouble. The newer "cheaper" guns aren't as slick and smooth out of the box as the older ones, but they're far from terrible and once you get a flat or two through them they start to break in and cycle more smoothly.

On the other hand, the 870 American Classic 20ga I purchased in 2014 is every bit as smooth and slick as my older Wingmasters, though it's not quite as "loose" as it hasn't had thousands of shells through it like they have. Wood is still a little more proud than I would like around the receiver, but that's really my only nit-pick on it.

I bought a new 870 Express Combo ( slug barrel/field barrel 12ga) a couple years ago off Gunbroker. When I looked it over it was very poorly fitted, made. It was a real disappointment. I ended up selling it at a loss. I prefer the early make Wingmasters.

It's been hashed out pretty well already, but personally no I would not buy a new 870.
I own and regularly use lots of old ones from the 50's and find these suit me. Much lighter than the new guns, nicer wood, etc.
Probably the ducks etc wouldn't know the difference though..

I bought the 3 1/2 Express in mid 2000s to shoot geese and ducks. It refuses to eject sometimes after third round and sometimes after 10th. Had the chamber polished by Remington repair shop but still fails.
Had a thrower and it was unusable to shoot clays. Have considered putting new barrel on but hard to dump good money after bad.

The shells seize in the chamber after being fired, slide will not open. I haven't fired it in many years.

You can still order a Wingmaster, just add about $500 to the price of an Express.

After posting I started internet researching the problem. Looks like the problem may be the soft oem extractor. I added a valquartsen extractor to an order I have. If it fixes it great but I have my doubts since the oem would pull off the rim of the shell. I still would not recommend an express to anyone, it is not a Wingmaster.

Id suggest you look to shotgun world.com. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Contrary to what you are getting in this post, the current 870s are amongst the best Remington has ever made. They re-tooled a couple years ago and the machining is cleaner and the fit and finish is excellent...a big improvement especially in the express models which are now a darker satin finish that is much less prone to corrosion.

The ONLY weak spot in the current gun is the MIM extractor (which is in the wingmaster as well) is easily remedied should it become a problem...which it likely won't.

The only plastic in the new guns is the trigger group housing (express only, winemaster is still pot metal). This is a nice improvement as it wont break, scratch etc. The internals of the fire control group are the same as always...and as i eluded to don't let the polymer housing scare you away. Its an improvement.

The new guns also have a lifetime warranty.



Not that it matters but I own 11 Remington 870 and 1100 shotguns ranging from the 1950s to current...the current guns are the best of the bunch IMHO

Functionally they are the same...no difference other than external finish contrary to popular belief The issue with your gun is a rough chamber and cheap shells. When used in connection you get guns that wont eject. Common in the era.

The only fix is to PROPERLY polish the chamber. This is NOT an extractor issue. You can fix this for around 5 bucks and 10 minutes assuming you own a drill

Id suggest you look to shotgun world.com. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Contrary to what you are getting in this post, the current 870s are amongst the best Remington has ever made. They re-tooled a couple years ago and the machining is cleaner and the fit and finish is excellent...a big improvement especially in the express models which are now a darker satin finish that is much less prone to corrosion.

Sorry, but after three disappointments, I'm not going to keep buying them every so often to see if they've improved them. Once a company lets things go to Hell, it's a long, slow slog back to regain the trust of customers. Most, having been sold crap, will never return. In the case of what's really for many people a lifetime purchase like a shotgun, once they get a satisfactory replacement, the sales opportunity is gone forever anyway, and that often also applies to other products the company may produce.

They also re-tooled for the Marlin lever guns, but despite pretty good press on the new ones, it appears substantial issues remain, based on anecdotal sources here, anyway. Why should someone spend their money on stuff made by a company, any company, that deliberately cheapened their product to increase profits?

Yep. I bought 2 a 20 inch sureshot turkey model and a waterfowl model for a loaner gun no issues with either

I understand that. I feel that way about Model 700s.

My advice would be not to ask for advice from a web forum. Go to the gun store and examine the shotgun. Visit your gun club and talk to people in person who own one. They have been selling the 870 Express for a while, so it's fairly easy to find someone who owns one. Talk one on one with these people and gather your impressions. I find being able to look at someone's face as being more reliable than an Internets yay or nay.

I own one of the early 870s and have had no problems, but if you were actively looking for one and were worried about whether to buy one, I would chat with people in person. That's just me.

I bought a couple of the Express models over 15 years ago and got 18" ported barrels from Vang Comp and magazine tubes, iron sights and jumbo safety. Put a bunch of JB and Kroil in them and on the slide action bars and ran the action on them off and on for several days until I was sick of running the action, Cleaned them up and they have performed flawlessly with every thing, from bird shot to 2 3/4 LE buck and slugs and 3" magnum buck and Breeneke 3" Black Magic slugs.

I bought a 20 ga. 870 Youth Express a couple of years ago for the grandson and it works just fine. No, they are not as good as the older 870's and if I was looking for a serious bird hunter I would buy an older used one from some one who took care of it.

The 870 was such a wonderful design and I tip my hat to the original designers. It was designed for bird hunters and the fact that thousands of them were "pressed into service" with law enforcement is a testament to their sound design. I spent lots of time with the short barreled 870 as it is what my old department used. I grew up using a Ithaca 37 and an old Mod. 12 Win. and liked them both when I was a kid. When Dad was not around I liked to hold the trigger back and run them like a trombone. Never hit much and often bruised up my middle finger on my firing hand, but it was a hoot!

P.S.

My old deceased accountant long ago was named Frank Cook and him and my friends Dad, old "Perk", were hard core sheep hunters and Frank had the #2 Dall sheep for many years. Him and Perk hit the Wrangell's and/or the peaks in Matanuska Valley mountains about every year starting in the late 40's up until the age caught up with them and Jimmy Carter closed up Perks sheep guiding area in the Wrangell's.

Frank hunted Africa and Mexico long ago and he said the dove hunts in Mexico were the most fun. He gave up on semi autos as he said they required to much cleaning and two barrel guns only fired two times. So his shot gun of choice was a 870 Wingmaster with extended magazine tube that just kept firing. He carried two of them to Mexico and cases of shot gun shells. He said he saw the barrels separate on some very nice and expensive two barrel shot guns. Frank could afford to shoot about any shot gun he wanted, but when he was really slinging lead he wanted the 870!

Great story and I have no qualms believing you.

I and my Son have 3 of the 870s from the 70s - 80s era. They aren’t for sale, just FYI.

I have 2 Win 1300 FTWTs, 20” w/tubes. (maybe 22” ? ) 1 is a NWTF (National Wild Turkey Federation) Model.
They are light......but NOT the quality of the older 870s.

Jerry

I'm always seeing people post pictures of Expresses that have magically rusted, even seen one pic of guns rusting in the IN A STORE RACK! And those were the Police model, too. Maybe they improved them recently, but I'd let other people find out.I think that Express finish has the worst reputation for rusting, ever.

"I was perusing my local Cabela's today when I happened to find 6 870 police magnums marked new, on the rack. These were selling for $699.99, AND were already showing lots of rust. All of them had rust all along the receiver, and on major portions of the barrel."

Are you fairly handy with tools? If so, PM me, and I may be able to help you. And, it's not complicated. Plus, it doesn't sound like we could make it much worse!

I had two that wouldn't eject for $h/t. Both were bought used, and might have been traded in to my LGS because they wouldn't eject. With the first one, folks said "You're not running the action fast enough." They were wrong, and what the issue was had nothing to do with how fast you ran it. I borrowed one from a friend that ran fine. I messed with them and studied them until I figured out what the difference was. When I finally figured it out, and corrected mine, it never bobbled again. Years later, when I bought the second one, when it wouldn't eject . . . Well, then it wasn't my first rodeo. Same issue, same fix. The second is one of my home protection guns. I trust it.

The 870 is one of my four "Guns everyone should own." I still believe that, but Remington has damn sure tested my resolve! It is not so much with the 870 in particular, but the crap they pulled when they acquired Marlin, Bushmaster, and maybe some others. I don't know if Marlin is straightened out yet. As for Bushmaster, the owner got back at the Remington "bespoke suits" when he opened Wyndham Weaponry!

Grammar adjusted.

I've gotten far too much good free info here to ever ask for renummeration for information. I am reluctant only because, until I get more information, I won't know if it is the same problem.

That said, the problem with mine, in both cases, was a carrier that was too high in the rest position. If an 870'is running right, it will "usually" eject nicely even if you run the action as slow as you can. When the action closes, when the bolt stops, the action bars still must move forward a bit more. This motion operates the part of the bolt that rises up and locks into the barrel extension. So, when you retract the bolt about halfway, you will see that you can hold the slide still and push the bolt backwards a bit. In operation, as you draw the bolt back, at some point the mechanism releases the next shell. This shell is under magazine spring force, so when it is released it is "launched." It slides up the carrier, hits the bolt, and knocks it back that fraction of an inch. If things are as they should be the bolt is in the right spot that when it is knocked back the empty is ejected. It is not you running the slide quickly at all. Again, if it is working right, you can run the action at literally a snail's pace. Even then, when that incoming shell releases, it will hit the bolt and kick the empty.

However, if the carrier rides too high, there is not enough room for the incoming loaded shell and the waiting to be ejected hull. The hull heads interfere with each other and the empty doesn't get a clean exit. It is difficult to impossible to run the action fast enough to prevent this. This is because that incoming round is released before you draw the bolt back far enough for that motion to eject the empty (as with the last round in the gun, when there is no incoming loaded round to hit the bolt.)

Some people tell me you can bend the carrier down. That looks problematic to me. I remove the trigger group, and file a bit on the surface that determines where the carrier rests in the "ready" position. It is a cut and try thing. You are trying to drop the tip of the carrier, but you don't want it sticking out way below the bottom of the receiver.

I hope my description makes sense. All that said, I'm not an 870 expert by any means, and I'm not a gunsmith. I am an engineer and I'm pretty good at figuring out how things work. I can only relate was has worked for me in only two cases.

Sounds good Doc but mine doesn't eject worth a damn even when you only load one round so there's no shell underneath to interfere. I don't know what the problem is. Obviously Remington doesn't either and is perfectly content to stick me with a useless lemon. I have a bunch of extra parts here and have repleced the extractor, extractor spring, the entire bolt assembly with one from a Wingmaster and have tinkered with the ejector spring and extractor spring tension, both more and less and still it refuses to eject properly. This is definitely not a rough chamber issue. A rough chamber would cause extraction issues, not ejection issues and extraction is and always has been just fine. I reckon I'll just have to stick with my good, dependable old pumps from Browning, Ithaca and Mossberg for hunting and make a lamp out of this POS 870. One thing's for sure, Remington has seen the last dime of my money they'll ever get. I won't even buy ammo or a calendar that says Remington on it ever again, as I'm sure they could find a way to fugg those up too and not stand behind it.

^^^^^
Blackheart,

You are testing ejecting an empty hull, correct? Seems to me an empty should eject better, but I honestly don't know how much of a difference that should make. Again, I claim no special,870 expertise. My best GUESS is the port is too small, something is up with the ejector "spring finger thing", or something (possibly the ejector), was installed in the wrong place. That would be weird, but I guess it could happen. Or possibly the ejector is mounted in the right place, but too long, too short, or otherwise out of spec.

My only suggestion is to get your hands on one you know works and see if you can find a difference somewhere. Maybe swap in the "good" parts a bit at a time [bolt, (maybe the whole thing), and action bars.] If the "good" parts don't work in the "bad" receiver, and the "bad" parts work in the "good" receiver, then you know it is something about the receiver or ejector (dimensions or locations.) At some point, the people at Remington should see you have done due diligence to figure it out.

In my case, I could see the difference in where the tip of the carrier "rode" relative to the receiver. I don't remember if that was the breakthrough or if I figured it out by running the actions slowly.

Hope this helps.

thank you

I would buy a New 870 in a Wingmaster in a heartbeat. I would not buy the Express 870. I’m a Blue and wood steel guy. You also get what you pay for. Nothing wrong with new 870 Wingmaster that I have seen in Stores or at the Trap and Skeet ranges I visit.

The new ones are actually very nice. I think Remingtons worst years are behind them . They changed the finish on the express to a much more rust resistant finish darker in color and less textured. Only thing that is lower quality than the original wingmaster is the MIM extractor. Easily remedied but needed on the wingmaster and express.

They have lifetime warranties as well now.

When I can find original 870 Wingmasters, TB, TC, and others consistently for under $500 in 90% or better condition there is no way I'd buy new. I have a TB with over a quarter million rounds through it, made in 1975, that is smoother than anything they put out today. 96% trap average, 16 and caps.

I agree the older 870s are wonderful, but the newer wingmasters smooth with use. I wonder if the older ones were a bit tight when they were brand new. I love Wingmasters, but not the expresses so much. They are a good tool, but a Wingmaster just feels right.