Maybe my age( 61) but when I see this , it turns me off to buying a magazine or reading further into one.
We called ourselves sportsman in the old days, we carried sporting rifles and were hunters. A 3 or 4 round magazine is/ was enough.
As a rule I buy a fair number of magazines, have an interest in ballistics and the new and wonderful components. I keep up to date on these things, if I see a tactical item on the cover it persuades me not to indulge. My little old point of view, folks

It's the mentality of most of today's youth. More interest in what is portrayed in movies/gaming/tv than in reality. Learned a long time ago those that can and have "done it" not only don't follow the fads, but also don't talk it up. Personal experience has proven this over and over with everything from actual war vet's to experienced LEO to hunters.

You need to cancel all your subscriptions to gun magazines and get Sports Afield. No black guns or Glocks. However, some of the tweed jacketed bird dog guys can be as stuffy as the the tactical guys are boring...

I went to the NRA Show and was surprised by the amount of tactical stuff there, surprised the market is big enough to support so many purveyors. I too haate when the AR shooters show up at the range, the noise and side blast from those things is really annoying. I pack up early if there are too many at the range on a given day.

comerade,

Most paper magazines come from the US. There is a much bigger demand for AR type rifles and accessories there.

Remember that in Canada, we have difficulties with AR stuff, in that we cannot use them to hunt with. Their use is restricted to the range. Justin's rumoured attempts to ban them aside, there is less interest here.

I am not trying to anger you, but your point of view is not held by the majority of North American shooters. There are approx. 33 million Canadians and 330 million Americans.

Yeah maple is just an ice cream now....so is walnut .Blueing has something to do with your mood. Yeah, Shrapnel...Sports Afield is buried in the back of the magazine rack

Everyone wants to be Cris Kyle without being shot at.

Part of it is the decline in hunter numbers in the U.S., and of course most gun magazines are American. Over the past 30-some years the number of U.S. citizens who purchased hunting licenses dropped from around 17 million to under 12 millions, mostly because it's more difficult and expensive to hunt.

Obviously this is worse in some areas that others. Overall, slight more than 80% of Americans live in "metropolitan statistical areas," either cities or their suburbs. In more rural states, hunter numbers are higher. Don't know what that number is today, but a decade ago half the adult males in Montana hunted. However, by definition rural states have fewer people.

As a result, "shooting sports" have become more range-oriented than hunting-oriented. The percentage of rifle shooters engaged in target games keeps increasing, as the number of hunter keeps decreasing. The target shooters are far more interested in "performance" aspects of rifles than traditional appearance, and in fact many younger shooters think the tactical look is nicer than the traditional look--even hunters.

One of these is the daughter of a good friend, who I helped get her first deer last fall. She used a 7mm-08 I loaned her, a tang-safety Ruger 77 with a walnut stock. After the hunt, however, I needed it back for an article, so I gave her a black synthetic stocked .308. She was thrilled, not just because it was actually her rifle, but because it looked "cooler." (The very word she used, and she was born and raised in Montana.)

So yes, the times they are a-changin'.

I don't know why people want to live in fantasy land. I can see and understand the popularity of the AR-15 as a tough, versatile, accurate and dependable hunting/ target/competition rifle but just don't get the whole zombie apocolypse/end of the world/tactical black ops wannabe crowd.

And as we decry the decline, we as individuals do our best to promote the decline.

Yeah, tackin up those posted signs and don't let anybody hunt ain't doing the sport any favors.

Again, I suspect a lot of it is because so many Americans live in cities, which tend to have higher crime rates. Those of us who live in rural America aren't so concerned about defending our homes--though I also suspect one reason we don't have to much in Montana isn't only the low crime rate, but the certain knowledge even among most dumb criminals that such a high percentage of households are armed.

John,

comerade is in BC, and his observations are a combination of age and where he lives. In Canada, AR type rifles are restricted to rifle ranges only. Frankly, I'm surprised that the magazine distributors have even bothered with Cdn sales. There must be sufficient demand though, I suppose.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/corner-brook-man-ar15-legalize-1.3566307

Steve,

Yes, I'm aware of where he lives. Which is why I pointed out (as you did) that most gun magazines are U.S.-based, and designed to appeal to a primarily urban audience.

John,

I had to repeat it because some of the other posters are addressing a dissimilar point. I understand the difficulties in the US with the public's perception of the "evil, back rifle". We have it here as well, but our legislation has curbed it's use, and, by extension, the interest in owning one.

Do you have to leave your AR's locked up at the range ? They've been severely restricted here in communist NY but we can still own them, use them for hunting and keep them at home. We just can't have a seperate pistol grip, so have to use the rediculous looking but quite functional Thorsden stocks on them, are limited to 10 round magazines or converting them to non removable magazine and can't have a flash hider.

Aspiration and over compensation is were people spend their money

It’s always been this way - no hunting / survival skills = yep

I have always preferred blued steel and walnut to synthetics and stainless. I tried for years to ignore the coming wave of the black gun fascination. I've come to the conclusion it's a part of where we are going as a shooting and hunting fraternity. It will do no good for us to ignore those shooters or alienate them. I try to always strike up a conversation with guys at the range whenever I have to share a range. I go mid week and often no one or only one or two on any given range but I still try to talk to the guys who are there. Taking an interest in what they're shooting, even if it's not our cup of tea, opens up a dialogue and sometimes sparks an interest for them in different firearms venues and sometimes sparks a new interest in us.

I have lots of blued steel and walnut guns. I have a few synthetic stocked guns, I have a Glock now. And not too far down the road, at 60 years old, I expect I'll have my first AR. As we plan our move from Alaska to Idaho, an AR in 6x223 or 25 Sharps makes a whole lot of sense to me as a coyote calling rifle.

I'm not likely to pick up a black gun magazine at the newsstand but I'll do my best not to be source of division between us old, sticks in the mud and the next generation of shooters and hunters.

We can have them in our homes, but we cannot use them for hunting. The petition shown in the link never got off the ground. Owners transport them to the range, shoot them, and take them back home. Very similar to handguns, except that with handguns here, we have permits to transport them back and forth to the range.

Trudeau is not doing well in the polls here, and as you guys know, firearms are a great tool to use at election time. Trudeau is hoping to ban some firearms up here to grab more of the urban vote and save his a$$ from being fired.

Dateline 1929: Two old timers sittin' round the woodstove wiping down their thutty thutty lever actions talking about more and more o' these young'uns showing up with these newfangled Springfields and other bolt action rifles. "What's with all this tactical stuff?"

Dateline 1955: Two old timers sitting around the gasoline heater wiping down their Model 54's and 70's talking about more and more o' these young'uns showing up with M1 carbines and rifles like a Remington 742. "What's the fascination with all these semi-automatic rifles? These fellers think they're all stormin' the beach at Normandy or somethin'?"

Dateline 2019: Two old timers sittin' round the glow of the laptop screen wiping down their fiberglass stocked rifles.......


And the circle goes round and round.

Well then, good luck getting rid of Trudeau ! Wish we could do the same with Hitle.... woops...um, Cuomo.

This is a bit off topic, but I keep reading how hunter numbers are steadily declining in the US. I am sure that it is true compared to the overall US population, but it seems odd since every year there are more and more hunters in the woods. Every bend in a Forest Service road seems to have a camper and UTV trailer these days during the general deer/elk seasons. Draw odds for hunts gets poorer every year too, even in units where tag numbers do not go down.

Please don't take this as nothing but a complaint. All a guy has to do is step a few feet off a road or main trail to be by himself during the season and I rarely fail to notch a tag if I put effort into it, but it is something I often wonder about. This last season, I climbed way the hell up to a peak in the Wyoming Range during the general deer hunt and counted something like 150 campers in the valley below and all the people around them had orange on. I saw plenty of deer and got a good 4x4, but I have a hard time understanding how hunter numbers are getting lower and lower. When I was a kid we'd see maybe 2-3 camps along those kind of Forest Service roads.

For what it is worth, in WY, MT and ID at least, I rarely see an AR in the hunting woods. Lots of people coyote hunt with them, but not deer/elk.

In my day kids wanted to be Cowboys, Indians or Daniel Boone. I wonder how many mass shootings have been done with a muzzle loader, lever action or even a bow. Bet not too many recently.

Black guns though fun to shoot don't do anything for me. I gave up the gun rags quite awhile ago.

Hunting license sales hit their peak at 1.4 million in NY back in the early '70's and are at approximately 700,000 now.

I sit here wearing my camouflaged boxer shorts underwear. I really need to go shave and do something useful. But I look cool, therefore AM cool.

A set of camo boxer shorts arrived as mystery gift from someone, I suspect from one of my boys as a joke.

They know that I roll my eyes at the expanding places sellers think of the put camo. IMO a camo flashlight is a liability anywhere outside of combat.

The fashion side of camo seems to be peaking, but the tacticool gizmos and attachments for anything shooting related is zooming. I snort at some of it but don't begrudge the seller for making a buck on things people will buy. I don't have to buy it, and once in awhile something useful or even appealing turns up.

Too many people think that they can buy skill via gear, rather than putting in the work to earn/develop those skills.

Some people buy quasi-race cars to drive on public streets where they can't legally drive them at speeds that come anywhere to their potential.

Some people buy quasi-sniper rifles/gear and deceive themselves into thinking that if the circumstances were a little difference they could be like Chris Kyle.

One thing that some people do that gripes me is when they steal honor by pretending/claiming to be something that they aren't, like all of the fake SEALs, Force Recon, and Rangers who are floating around. Even worse, at least IMO, are the people who falsely claim to have been awarded medals for valor.

Where I am , all shooters are hunters, they might branch off a little afterwards.
If I didn't hunt, I would keep a 30/06 for around the farm and that is about it.
This wouldn't matter where I would live and that would never, ever be in a town or city.
My point here is we went from reading Jack , Elmer etc under the covers with a flashlight as a kid, That conjured up ideas about getting into the backcountry and hunting. ( luckily I could)
Maybe I am just a Geezer now but I like a good story and more traditional stuff.
I don't understand a modern expensive haircut or the drug Crisis.
I will take a Budweiser- they support Rodeo and fit my budget.

I'm 60 and my next purchase is going to be a DPMS G2 AP4. I want to use it for deer and hog hunting as I'm using ground blinds more and more. A short barrel carbine in .308 is just the ticket.

I wear tactical pants as casual wear because they are comfortable and familiar as I was an infantryman and infantry officer. I like cargo pockets to stuff things in that would crowd a hip pocket.

While I don't buy into all of the tactical gear some of it is useful.

As far as the younger generation, if it gets them into shooting and hunting, I'm for it. My daughter's boyfriend bought an AK. I have taken him hunting a couple of times. He wants to deer and hog hunt with it. I said sure you can. I mounted a scope on it last night and we are going to the range soon to try it out.

Since he got interested, now my daughter is interested in shooting again.

I'm keeping an open mind as I get older and if we don't, we risk our sports dying out IMO.

I've often pondered that "why so much tactical stuff ?" question. As an old fart I figure it's just not my generation. Then I think about all the young folks now that were exposed to all kinds of video games growing up that featured firearms. Tactical firearms to be exact. There's probably not too many traditional looking firearms out there in video game land. But then; what does an old fart like me know about video games ?

Dateline 1929: Two old timers sittin' round the woodstove wiping down their Krag-Jorgensons they got from the DCM for $2.50! Just like they packed in the Phillipines 25 years earlier. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Couldn’t help it!

Well first of all, the only market driven by Canaduh is the sale of pocket pussies.

Second, the United States has been at war for 20 years. Books, magazines, and online reading reflects accordingly. That tends to make military schit more popular.

I think the statistic of hunting being on the decline doesn't necessarily show the big picture.

We might have lost some of the "fudd" hunters which padded the numbers, but the 12 million or so hunters we have now are rather dedicated. They are willing to spend big $$ on good gear, travel to hunt, and put in a great deal of effort.

The shift to "tactical" is nothing but good for freedom loving Americans. In my opinion, every american who owns a tactical style rifle, can shoot even semi long range, and who practices is nothing but good for us and our freedom. We are truly an armed nation.

If people are inspired to own quality rifles and practice shooting, how exactly is that a bad thing?

.............................................. Amen to that, except there are so many in this country who also denigrate and belittle and insult those who enjoy shooting and / or hunting. So that they may fundamentally transform us into a truly unarmed nation...... Because guns are just bad and why does anyone need a gun ? Or that antiquated 2nd Amendment ?

I've been guilty of characterizing tactical shooters as wannabes and really that's not fair. Yeah there are bad apples in the tactical crowd just like there are bad apples in every group of shooters. They stand out in any group. I've had to temper my attitude toward tactical shooters after spending time with them at the range and having several of them working for me. Most are not bad guys. Just like most guys who prefer blued steel and walnut are not bad guys. A sure way to divide the shooter groups is to always characterize tactical shooters as wannabes. Most of them are good guys who like ARs and tactical shooting.

It's all shooting and I'm good with it. I'm not a tactical gear junkie, but I use a lot of "tactical" guns because they are the best tools for what I do.

I do a good deal of hunting (mostly with bolt actions) but am limited here in Oregon by the availability of tags. I can only draw mule deer and elk tags every other year for example. I do some hunting out of state but still it's not a regular event.

On the other hand, I can and do shoot most weekends in various action shooting matches. This is where I put the most rounds down range. I shot a pistol match and a 3 gun match for about 400 rounds total this weekend. This is all with semiautomatic firearms since that's how the games are played. In my case that means Glocks, AR-15's and semi auto shotguns. It's great fun and keeps my shooting skills sharp.

I think we should be happy that people are interested in shooting regardless of the style of guns they use. And I'm an old guy.

Tacticool guns exist to amuse me.

The youngsters take them to the local range in droves. They can't hit anything they aim at. They give their buddies a poke by pointing out the old fart (me) with the flintlock is out shooting them. I don't enjoy the lateral blast from the flash suppressor when they sit at adjacent benches. Mindless fools they are. Sufficiently annoyed I will pull out the .45-70 or if uber annoyed, the .416 Rigby and pop a few caps. They leave, I laff and carry on.

Well aren't you just the bad a$$ at the range.. give me a ph ucking break..

Maybe you old decrepit old ph ucks need to go a service rifle match.. you probably stop your bitch fest.. once you see what can be done with the much hated AR15..

Always interesting to see how the sides choose up on the Fire.

Personally, I like all rifles, which is why I own a bunch of different types from flintlocks to AR's.

Just the other day I went to the range with three rifles, and the selection made me realize (doh!) that I JUST LIKE RIFLES!--

Brand-new Bergara B14 Ridge in 6.5 Creedmoor, with a 3-15x dialing scope.

Pre-WWII German SxS double rifle in 9.3x74R.

My oldest tacticool rifle, an 1866 trapdoor Springfield .50-70, dated 1866, the first year the Allin conversion was used.

That's my view on it.

Some comments were made about the difficulty of finding locations to hunt. Lately I have been watching some old episodes of Northwoods Law on tv. It is no wonder access is being lost on private property when you see how often people like ATV users ignore No Access signs especially when signed permission is often available. Not only is trespass a problem but also the amount of property damage done by the way the machines are operated.

I realize not all ATV owners are like this but obviously there are enough that it is causing a lot of private access to be lost.

Just another perspective.

Jim

John,

A trapdoor is "tacticool"? I didn't know they had meth-crazed zombie bikers in 1866 nor even 511 pants!

I really hate to say it, but a lot of the AR15 dislike I believe is caused by some (certainly not all) of the folks shooting them. The only instruction some of them get is what they see on Xbox. I was at the range last week when a couple of mental masturbators were blazing away at 25 yds. and they couldn't hardly keep their shots on a full size silhouette. They were not the safest gun handlers, either. I don't know, but I would think that if you're going to buy a battle rifle you would want to learn how to properly use it.

I know this isn't a new phenomena. Us older guys can remember how Model 29 S&Ws were scarce after "Dirty Harry" and I suspect the westerns in the '50s and '60's kept single action revolvers and lever actions from dying off. I guess at least the wannabe "operators" aren't shooting themselves in the leg practicing fast draw.

We have an AR15 and a bunch of magazines at the house that we bought just because Obama didn't want us to have it. It really doesn't get much range time although everyone in the house including mom is familiar with it and can shoot it. I thought my 13 year old son would shoot it more but he likes the Garand and '03 Springfield more, possibly because he has been reading up on WWII the last few months. FWIW, we're shooting a cast bullet load in the '03 that shoots to POA @ 100yds. with the battle sights and groups surprisingly well.

The advertising hype that goes with the tactical toys and accessories is enough to turn me off. I have dropped all the gun magazines but "Rifle" and "Handloader". If I see one more advertising-laced article by some bearded, 511 clad "operator" extolling the latest version of an AR or 1911 I think I will puke.

I like both the "hunting" stuff and the "tactical" stuff. In my opinion both terms are abused, confused and misused. We are slowly turning into a nation of shooters more then hunters. Shooters that are more interested in hitting some thing in the next zip code then sneaking up close. Hunters that consider getting with in 600 yards a stalk, hunters that rely on electronics more then tracking and sign reading. Gear junkies, always seeking the latest and greatest. I often fall into that category.

For the last 54 years in Alaska I have hunted with a 30-06 and .338 with a "set and forget" scope and that met my needs, as did old and new Mod. 70 Winchesters. I now own a couple of Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor's, one is a 10 pound beast with a big first focal plane mil/mil scope and the other is a lightweight hunting rifle with a 3-9 SWFA. By golly, I too am going to learn to twist turrets. It is going to be fun!

My AR rifles are fun and good for protecting my "castle", as are my "fighting" handguns. My "castle" is my home, our RV, our tent, or any vehicle we are in.

I think the big change in gun magazines and interest in "battle" weapons came as a result of the "sand box" wars we have been in for the las 20 plus years. That has spawned a new way to look at rifle styles, optics and tactics.
We now have thousands of young men on our streets with combat experience. Not all of them are messed up and suffering from some combat related disorder. Many are working functional family providers and patriotic. I hope they all have a couple of AR's and a bunch of ammo and mags. We may need them again, we have unprotected borders.

Hunting in the United States is slowly headed towards the way it is done in Europe. Hunters used to live out of their back pack and hike all over in search of game. Many now hike to a tree stand or food plot after they reviewed the footage from their game cams. Many have no choice, it is the only style of hunting they know and have access to, I don't blame them for hunting that way.

The times are a changing.

^^^^^This is it, almost 20 years at war and Hollywood and TV making film after film, tv series after tv series has made the tacticool angle well.... cool. Add to that the fact that active shooters using these weapons have made them high profile in the media and then we had a president that tried to go after them. I remember being at a shooting range in San Antonio months after the Newtown CT shooting and the number of people there with a brand spanking new AR and no clue in the planet how to operate it was astonishing.

Count me in as one of the guys who do not like the blast or empty cases flying at me when at the range.

I always try to get the farthest left bench, so I do not have to deal with that. Plus I always double hearing protection when they show up too.

I shoot my AR with a suppressor and brass catcher. Makes it a whole lot tamer, and less rude IMO.

I always get a good chuckle when the tacticools show up.

M-16 `s are over 50 years old, i own a few AR`s ,many many old rifles too but when i call coyotes out west,where sometimes more than one coyote comes in. my AR-10 243 Winchester with yes a big Nightforce scope on it,handloads and this rifle is a hell of a kill`n machine ! bolts and levers then are just to slow , plus to much moment,when you wanna kill more than coyote. ya black guns have a use sometimes and are still a hell of a home defense weapon, accuracy with these black rifles is good too . So if it comes to a gun fight i sure hope i have either a black gun AR -rifle,black pistol or a home defense black shotgun.

I'm not interested in tactikool 'stuff' to be P C.
I don't read it, don't look at it, it's not for me.

In all my firearms......

I have 1 pistol with 1 XTENDED mag , multiple - multiple capacity.

I have 1 rifle with 2 or 3 XTENDED mag , multiple - multiple capacity.


I have them for ONE purpose and ONE purpose only. My prayer is I never need them..... BUT !


Jerry

i am amazed how accurate these AR`S are and take 2 pins out pull barrel off clean barrel ,put barrel back on and still accurate. try that with any other type rifle and i have some super bench rifles . take a these bench rifles apart and you do have to re-sight them in a little including my Bat single shot.buy a good brand AR rifle they are kinda fun to shoot and play with on the range.

I do agree with this. It is annoying when casings are flying because the owner won't use a brass catcher or partition. One time on an indoor range I looked at the wall to my right and saw a laser dot just in front of me. I looked to my left to see a tacticool guy with an AR on the bench with the muzzle pointed across the gun line.

But I have seen stupid and annoying stuff with guys shooting more traditional firearms. It isn't just the purview of the tacticool.

No, I won't give you a break sweetheart. Work on your sense of humor a bit and get back in touch.

Oh yeah, how much trigger time do you have with a M16 or M4?

the only time I had a problem with a tactical cool fellow I was with a friend at the range were he shot their was some fat loud mouth dressed like a swat dude with a hand gun in holster on both legs that was strapped to his thigh he had some kind of 50 cal. auto rifle with a brake on. it he was shooting it as fast as he could just to look how much it was bothering every body he though that it was funny . most people just pact up and left . I heard later that they kicked him out but people like that make all gun owners look bad IMOP

Dateline 1840: Two old timers sitting in front of the fireplace wiping down their flintlock muskets they carried when marching with Andy Jackson to New Orleans, bitching about the new-fangled percussion guns.

Let the little darlin's have their tacticool stuff. It means all the more blue steel and walnut for me.

Just as long as they don't put beans in them.

Very different in Nebraska.

Nebraska has very little public land and unless you own land that is suited to hunting or have family/friend access to land that is suited to hunting you are pretty much out of luck. I doubt that I see more than a dozen or so deer or turkey hunters each year when I'm afield. I think that I've encountered one other squirrel hunter during the 30 years that I hunted fox squirrels here, even on public WMAs. If there was more hunting land that was easier to access, I think that there would be more hunters here.

I shot one couple yrs back.. at 25yds my bud said I did pretty good..

Nothing wrong with the tactical-flavored stuff. Also nothing wrong with blued/walnut sporters or high-gloss painted BR rifles with metallic flames. Like others have said here, I just like guns. At a gun counter, I'm as likely to check out a S&W Model 19 as a polymer double-stack auto.

My dad generally rides around his place with a Glock on his hip and a Marlin 336 on the seat, and most of his Marlins wear Burris M-TAC illuminated tactical scopes. It's an odd combo, but he likes it.

I have hunted all my life, I spent many years employed as a tacticool guy and spent some time in combat.

Lessons learned: 1. Most 'gun guys' don't handle their guns safely

2. Most hunters aren't very good at it, those that are work very hard to get that way.

3. Most shooters aren't very good at it, "

4. Plenty of grown men like to play dress up and will spend a lot of $ to do so.

5. There are a lot of old fuds on here.



mike r

I've got a couple young "tacticool" types I work with. They have every tacticool accesory on their AR's and shoot up thousands of rounds of ammo at the range every year. I have gone shooting with them a couple times. They make alot of noise and big piles of empty brass at the range but they can't shoot for shyt.

Well written mart and Calvin. I agree completely and act accordingly.

Well, alrighty!

My point is in line with lvmiker's post a couple after your last. There's a lot of younger types out there that love to strut and give little thought to doing that well with firearms. I dunno if tacticool gets their heart to racing or what, but I've not seen but one or two out maybe 500 over the last few years that could hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle....at any range. I have helped a few that were receptive get back on track and after the fact they were very much more enthused, knowing that a) their gun was reasonably zeroed and b) they could hit paper out to 100 yards with consistency. The benches at the range I visit now and again are close, maybe 6' spacing and I'm being generous with that estimate. The blast from a flash suppressor with knock paper, pencils and sometimes brass off the bench. They are clueless about what they are doing and I do on occasion return the favor. Maybe they learn something? Like you know, there's 50 benches and only 14 are occupied, mebbe they ought not park next to someone just because they can? I haven't done it often, but I have made my point with large bore guns because I'm working on load development or some other quasi important thing and don't need the distraction of someone trying to pretend they have a full auto gun.

I don't have anything that would qualify as tactical in my locker unless you want to include an old M1 Carbine and I don't shoot it often at all. That said, I don't object to the tacticool idea and if people want to bust caps with such things I say "Go Daddy, GO!".

The reason I don't feel the need is my history with the M16. I toted one during most of the course of 2.5 years in Nam, interspersed with forays with the CAR15 and M3. I shot them enough to recognize they were all top drawer combat arms, and beyond that I have no interest in ever pulling the trigger on one of them again. Year one was the most intense for my use of such things and I shot that one enough to make about 8" of rifling from the breech end of the barrel vanish.

Google up some history about the A Shau Valley or maybe Khe Sanh, they were my playground for the most part. Some of my buddies are still there and I remember them on days such as this.

30-40 Krag,

Apparently my tongue was too firmly in my cheek when I called my 1866 trapdoor .50-70 "tacticool."

But it was designed as a tactical rifle, chambered for the the first centerfire cartridge standardized for the the U.S.military, through a an exceptionally successful rebuilding of earlier rifles. It proved VERY tactical (and perhaps even tacticool) in the Wagon Box Fight of 1867, and afterward was one of the major factors in the military history of the American West. Maybe that does not fit the present definition of tacticool, but probably exceeds the requirements.

You would be amazed at the amount of young guys that think all of the guns used in "Call of Duty" are real.

dd some people are to stupid to understand

Hey, I just remembered that I have a flintlock...so I got maybe 2 tacticool guns. Sorta.

I shoot in a monthly rifle match where we shoot from various improvised field positions, sometimes under and around barriers, out to about 350 yards. Mostly steel targets, some moving, some not, and most people shoot AR's. It's timed, so you have to hit as many targets as you can as fast as you can. Definitely not bench shooting. There are some younger shooters in that match who shoot very well. So not all young AR shooters are just blasting away.

S A L U T E ! Dan

DOUBLE S A L U T E ! ! to your "BUDDIES" and ALL our VETS !!

A Sincere Heart Felt THANKS


Jerry

In all my years/seasons afield, I've seen exact two hunters (a pair) packing what most would call tactical arms. Now the local rifle range is a different story.

John,

No my tongue was embedded too deeply in my cheek!

I know about the 50/70 and 45/70 trapdoors and the role they played in the winning of the west-a greater role dare I say than that of either the Sharps or Winchester. The trapdoor was tactical-not tacticool. I think tacticool is a modern thing, brought about by movies, media, video games, and most of all by advertising. I was a cop and firearms instructor for 21 years and cannot believe how I took my life in hands by not wearing the latest tactical duds and having all the newest wonderful gewgaws hanging off my firearms. I believe the lack of hunting and interest in traditional shooting sports has fueled manufacturers in creating new markets. The biggest market has to be personal defense. I really didn't know that I could not defend hearth and home with anything less than a tricked out AR, and it has been oh, at least 3 or 4 weeks since I had to shoot my way out of the grocery store parking lot! I find it odd that so many folks nowadays think that if they can just buy enough junk they will become proficient rather than buckle down and learn to shoot but maybe it has always been like that to some extent.

Upon reflection, maybe some of us old Fudds ought to offer to help some of these new folks become proficient, rather than just noisy. A nation of people that would take the time and learn to shoot would be a really wonderful thing and something that not even politicians would mess with. I am proud that all my kids and my two sons-in-law like to shoot.

Oh well, someone has to keep the ammunition and doodad makers in business.

BTW, none of us are immune to the influence of the media. I bought a 1903 Colt in .32 ACP just because Bogart looked good with one. I may get me a repo Colt Paterson just to shoot zombie Comanches and a Roman short sword to fight off hordes of meth addicted Huns and Goths.

Good post

Tell me about it. Was at the range today and a younger guy shows up with his girlfriend. He's all decked out with a damn police/tactical vest 501 tactical pants and desert tan boots. Our RSO had to stop shooting and keep an eye on the youngster. Mother fuc ker stepped out when we were hot on the range and got yelled at by everyone, then he proceded to lay his loaded AR on the bench when we called cold range to go out and check targets. I guess the kid is a cadet and training to be a "police officer".... Said our guns were old. I was shooting my bolt guns today. He asked if any of us "old timers" had AR's... I laughed and said, sure bring your AR to one of our black rifle shoots next month.....

Mart - Don't go to Idaho. I am sure its a great place but you're an Alaskan through and through. You still can buy glocks, ARs and tactical stuff. But forego the movement to Idaho.

I'm in the Army 21yrs, getting ready to drop my retirement. So I been around m16a2 m4 carbine etc. I never had a use for one until last December I wanted to shoot out to a 1000 yds and what a better way than with a 223/5.56. I been collecting data/load development etc. I been shooting in 600yd matches and a EIC match as well.

I love nice guns.

Savage and Mossberg have built some nice looking guns.
So have Perazzi and Rigby.

But,

In some respects, the modern tactical rifles are superior.
They are an evolution of projectile launching tools.
As such, they are designed to take advantage of several hundred
years of accumulated knowledge, and be the best tools for the job.

Sorry if that hurts someones vagina, but our wood and steel rifles are
just high wheeled bicycles,
the taticool rifles,
they are modern motorcycles.

I'm with MD.
Flintlock to AR carbine, single-action to Glock.


I like guns. They make me a jolly good fellow,

I like guns, They help me unwind, and sometimes they make me feel mellow.

Sorry!

These conversations pop up here regularly. As others have suggested, what you are seeing is progress. In a few years, ARs will be disposed of by the military for another rifle.

I seriously doubt that a lot of people here like every gun type. I am unsure why some cannot accept ARs, and just keep shooting their levers, single shots or whatever. This goes for the AR lovers too. It's called live and let live.

Some of you might recall when ARs came in more colour options than calibres. I have always been torn between the functionality and toughness of polymers and the beauty and lines of a wood stock. As a retired armourer, I have seen far fewer plastic stocks damaged than wooden ones. I've said this before: Plastic is the new wood.



Some of you berate other gun owners in the same way the anti-gun people speak about hunters and shooters.

It's all good. I don't have to like everything available for my personal use to appreciate the excellent engineering involved. And, as I've noted in previous discussions, some of the tactical folks will drift over into the hunting camp. Might not be packing Mausers or lever actions when they do, but that's fine. The focus on LR shooting and equipment has resulted in some of us, anyway, becoming more capable marksmen as well.

I went back and looked at my original post, and the tactical stuff that uninterests me.
Well, I don't feel disgusted about it, just dulled by the trend that way and it might be a way for the industry to regain lost ground due to lessening hunting numbers. I don't know.
I do know that I don't them, won't need them but I like any advancements they provide for sporting rifles .
It does worry me that the trend seems to be less about a kid climbing the hill behind his house, his prized .22 single shot Cooey in hand and the borrowed stealth of the genius, mythical Big Game hunter we had just read about in Outdoor Life.
That innocence is all but gone, buried in our memories .
I can revive the thrill , however everytime I shoulder any rifle and climb any hill.

Miniguns work better at that distance than the 5.56. Just sayin'.

Comerade, you're saying stuff like this inspires are ya?







You appreciate fine art integrated with function?

Instead of tools?



Me too.....

But now and then tools are useful.

It's always nice to have helicopter support. But they are used on the ground as well. An older video here from Dillon. We called them "mini-tats" 7.62x51mm.

Tactical has gone ridiculous and although the trend may say that is the way the shooting world is leaning, I remain steadfast in the good gun category. I didn't say I don't have a tactical rifle, I just think one is enough.

On the other hand, I can't stop buying the real guns...

I own exactly one AR. It was an itch I had to scratch, and secretly wanted to tweak the noses of people who didn't think I should own it. Discovered how much fun it is, shot it a bunch, got tired of it, and now it sits out of sight cleaned and oiled with a couple ammo cans full of the handload it likes, waiting for the call I hope it never gets.

I stepped out of character and carried it hunting a couple times. Being a 20" H-Bar with fixed stock and 1-4x scope it is no lightweight. Ergonomically it's different than my other hunting rifles in its weight class- not better, not worse, just different. I did get a few sideways looks from some young tacticool hunters who I guess couldn't figure out the old guy dressed like a 1950's Field and Stream ad, carrying a black quick-shooter. That itch has now been officially scratched too.

All the video gamers are now buying real guns. Tactical is all they know.

Tactical is what sells and it seems like in the old days, many shooters got their start hunting but that's not necessarily true any more.

Had a conversation with an employee of a gun store recently, he was asking about a firearm to take along for small game on a big game backpack hunt. I asked him what kind of small game and he really had no idea. Where he'd be hunting, grouse was going to be about it for edible small game so I recommended a good .22 pistol with a red dot sight. No go, he wanted a rifle (was gonna carry two) and already had his sights set on one. He wanted a specific gun, with a lot of cool features rather than a small packable gun that was better suited to what he was going to be using it for. Seems pretty common these days.

Shrapnel, I got a suggestion for ya.

Buy another safe.

Supercub- so these gamer's cross over to the real thing? Those games are ultra violent,imo.
If this is true, this trend is scary.
I wouldn't feel comfortable being around them,either.

Where to begin?

There is a difference between "tacticool" on the one hand and black rifles with plastic stocks on the other hand. The latter are more accurate, in general, than rifles with walnut stocks and hold their zero when it rains.

That said, I think an AR15 is pretty worthless for most hunting. It's too heavy for what you get, only fits small people, and can't be carried at the balance point in one hand with that pointy magazine sticking out. Also I never had any need for 20 shots while hunting. Caliber choices are limited.

As for home defense, I'll take a 12 gauge pump gun over an AR15.

But before you call me Zumbo, I think the popularity of AR15s for target shooting sports is a very good thing. With hunting declining, it's good we attract more and more people to shooting sports, on the range or wherever. There are neat "practical" sports where an AR15 fits very well. They're fun. I have probably put 10,000 rounds through AR15s, mostly High Power service rifle matches.

It's no secret that the Democrat Party is in lock step trying to outlaw AR15s. After that they'll revert to their earlier crusades--Saturday Night Specials (any handgun they don't like), "dum-dum" bullets (any that expand), "armor piercing" bullets (any that don't expand), "sniper" rifles (any rifles with scopes), and so on. The more voters who own AR15s, the more allies we have to head 'em off at the pass.

In case you have some limbs or trees blocking a shooting lane.

Or ice.

Sure.....

It's a chain gun. It fires the 6mm SAW.

Personally I do not have any interest in anything not blue and walnut, but I think the tactical/plastic thing is great as it has introduced an awful lot of new shooters to the cause...and that is worth the price of admission.

Besides which, if you lot all get a raging horn every time you walk past a piece of tupperware there is a better than even chance you will avoid the stuff I am interested in, well maybe not Shrap.

The word "Tactical" is over used, and 99% of the time misused.

It's a word plastered to everything military in style, and that is NOT what the word means. People in the industry need to learn the difference between an action and an object.

I remember in the 80s the idiotic fad-word was "Assault". Assault pants. Assault Boots. Assault glasses. Assault wrist watches. Assault Toilet paper.

I have nothing at all against military style gear, rifles, clothing and all that. In fact I think it's a very good thing to have, and follows into the real purpose of the 2nd Amendment. Every non-criminal American should be armed and trained.

But calling so much of this kind of gear "Tactical" is idiotic, and shows an extreme lack of understanding of the word or the concept.

Just an observation. May or may not be accurate. Certainly the cross section of shooters and their shooting interests has changed in the last 20 yrs. They don't wan't to shoot their Grampy's old deer rifle anymore.

No, what it means is the marketing people have become involved. It's called 'sales'. When money is involved, they fully understand what they are doing.

I helped a 20-couple year old son of an old friend break into the shooting game last year. He loved shooting my AR (naturally) as well as his grandfather's 03A3 sporter that his dad dragged out of a closet for him. I asked him why he liked the 03A3 so much, and his reply was " I like the way it kicks the snot out of me". Jesus. I eventually steered him into a Savage M10 somethingorother .223 with scope- $400 out the door. He loves it even though it doesn't turn his skinny shoulder into a black and blue mess. I fixed him up with the basics- plenty of ammo, a cleaning rod and solutions, rest and sand bags, etc. and he was off and running. Last time at the range I taught him field positions- offhand, sitting, and prone, and told him that any goofball can shoot well off a bench but a real rifleman is defined by how well he shoots away from the bench.

What you are seeing is progress. Right now, ARs are the rage. In the same way that M1 toy guns, Johnny Sevens, and Roy Rogers cap gun and holster sets were the rage when I was a child, so it is with ARs. They are on TV, in the movies and virtually every shoot 'em up video game that kids play. They saw it on TV or on their Nintendo, so they naturally will want it when they're older. This is no different than my desire to own a real Roy Rogers 6 shooter or wear a coon skin cap.

Marketing is more powerful than "the Force".

Absolutely. After The Terminator movie came out in 1984 gun stores were swamped with 20-somethings wanting plasma rifles in the 40 watt range. IIRC one guy modified a bunch of lava lamps with pistol grips and shoulder stocks and made several hundred thousand dollars....

Excellent! Bring 'em into the fold. Teach them how it's done. Help them along. They're the next generation.

I can't count how many folks I've taught to shoot, literally hundreds. Feel pretty good about that.

"Tactical" - okay, had careers in the Marines and in Law Enforcement. More than my fair share of time on AR-15 & M-16 type rifles. I find them extremely useful, well worthwhile. Doggone things can be quite accurate too. But ya, my real love is for more traditional rifles in blued steel & walnut.

Guy

>>i have to agree some of these young dudes will out shoot many people if not all of us ? on my trap team i have 3 young guys ,1 is my son,couple of weeks ago these 3 young guys shot at a total of 750 birds on a trap range for score in the wind ,they missed 4 total birds out of 750 and i have seen them shoot their AR`s well too. No don`t count young people out to soon , i know i don`t ,young people who are in shape see better,have better young control`d muscles,good hand ,eye and body control too.

I got my first AR, a toy, out of the Sears Christmas Wishbook in 1965, even though we were still fighting our Fathers' war against the Japs and Krauts.

I also got a Johnny Eagle Magumba bolt action hunting rifle and semi-auto pistol set for those days when I wasn't engaged in combat.

We were totally naive and wouldn't have recognized "politically correct" is it had bit us in the a$$, It was a great time to grow up in America!

My thoughts align with digital's here.

I fired enough rounds out of a M16 A2 and A4 to never care if I ever touch another military style rifle. I own a glock, a short barreled shotgun and a mini-14, but no AR. That's not to say I wouldn't, if the right deal came along but I have not gone out of my way to buy one. I just have no interest. The only reason I have the min-14 is because I got it when I was a kid. Haven't shot it in years.

Others can have at 'em. The more guns out there the better, but they're not for me.

I was attached to 4 or 5 different M16A1s during my 7 years in the USA. When I got out in 1984, carrying a civilian AR didn't interest me at all. I didn't get an AR for 26 years, when I traded with someone on this site for a DPMS Sportical. Later in 2010 I bought a Plum Crazy lower and have built and rebuilt it multiple times, still looking for the configuration that works best for me.

This is the correct answer. It's very obvious. Video games and movies. You can see it on any forum for the younger crowd. They can list all the military weapons and calibers featured in such games and movies... and have never heard even of a .22-250.

It was probably true in the past, too. Knights. Cowboys. Okay. It's fine.


But the tactical obsessions some people get deep into are a total fantasy. When the Walter Mittys living in their perfectly safe neighbourhoods start taking this stuff far too seriously I can only shake my head.

I think it's something to do with helping to providing a certain feeling of power and masculinity to those folks. Some people will actually get quite angry over someone else recommending a Smith & Wesson AR-15 or hollow-point ammunition which "only" penetrates 11.8 inches in ballistic gelatin. MIL-SPEC!!! FIGHTING RIFLE!! STAKE YOUR LIFE ON IT!! FBI PROTOCOL!!! WHAT IS YOUR LIFE WORTH!!!

A total joke.

Are you sure?

https://medium.com/s/story/the-surp...he-tin-foil-hat-gun-prepper-15fce7d10437

As gun policy discussions unfold in the wake of mass shooter incidents, they routinely end in three buckets. There’s the “tyranny can never happen here” bucket, which the left has mostly abdicated in the wake of Trump winning after they called (and still call) him a tyrant. There’s the “you can’t fight the army with small arms” bucket, which is increasingly unsound given our ongoing decade-and-a-half war with Afghani tribal goat herders. And there’s the “what the hell do you need an AR-15 for anyway?” bucket, which, by its very language, eschews a fundamental lack of understanding of what those people are thinking. I am not a prepper. But I know a few. Some of the ones I do know are smart. They may not be doing as deep an analysis as I present here, on a mathematical level, but the smart ones are definitely doing it at a subconscious level. If you want to understand the perspectives of others, as everyone in my opinion should strive to do, then you would do well to read to the end of this article. To get where we’re going, we will need to discuss the general framework of disaster mathematics.

Stormwater Hydrology and the Mathematics of Unlikely Events
I’m not a writer by trade. I’m a stormwater hydrologist, and in my opinion, a pretty good one. Hydrology is the science of tracking water as it moves through the water cycle, from ocean evaporation through cloud formation, precipitation, groundwater infiltration, runoff, evapotranspiration, riverine hydraulics, and the time series behavior of reservoirs. It is a deep and fascinating field, but one of its most relevant applications to our lives is delineating floodplain boundaries.

To determine a floodplain boundary, we first identify a “storm event” that concerns us. We use historical rainfall data and some statistical magic to calculate the worst storm event a place is likely to experience in a 100-year time span, probabilistically speaking, and we call that the “100-year storm.” There’s a push in the field to quit calling it that, because it confuses the muggles, so now we often say something like “the storm which has a 1% chance of happening in any given year.” Then we take that rainfall data, judiciously apply more math, and turn it into a flow rate in a river. Then we do hydraulics (more math) to determine how deep the river will have to be to carry that much water, and we draw a line on a map.

You should have seen this line, if you’ve ever bought a house near a floodplain. If you bought a house near a floodplain and were not shown this line, contact me professionally to ensure you didn’t make a terrible mistake.

We don’t buy houses in the floodplain if we can help it, because we are risk averse, even though the chance of it flooding in any given year is only 1%. Why? We will live in the house longer than one year. Over the 30-year life of a mortgage, the chance of the house flooding at least once vastly exceeds 1%, because every year is another roll of the dice. It’s not cumulative, though. The mathematics for back-calculating the odds is called a Bernoulli Process. Here’s what it looks like:


Let’s quickly walk through this. The chance of flooding, P(F), is 1%, or 0.01. The chance of not flooding, which we notate P(F’), is 100%-1%, or 99%, or 0.99. To see the chance you don’t flood two years in a row, you would have to “not-flood” the first year, and then “not-flood” the second year, so you multiply the two probabilities together, and get 0.9801. The chance of “not-flooding” 30 years in a row is calculated by multiplying the chance of not flooding with itself, over and over, 30 times, which is a power relationship. P(F’)³⁰. That’s 0.7397 chance of 30 consecutive years of no flood, which means a 26% chance of at least one flood.

And then your mortgage broker doesn’t give you your thirty-year fixed rate loan, because a 26% chance of a disaster is a big chance, when we’re talking about disasters. Now let’s talk about a bigger, nastier disaster than a flood.

Prepper Math
There’s a common misconception in the media about the eventuality for which the preppers are exactly prepping. That’s because they’re a diverse group, and prep for many different things. No, they aren’t planning for a revolution to overthrow the government. (Most of them, anyway.) Mostly they’re planning to keep themselves and their families safe while someone else tries to overthrow the government. That, or zombies. (More on zombies below.)

While we don’t have any good sources of data on how often zombies take over the world, we definitely have good sources of data on when the group of people on the piece of dirt we currently call the USA attempt to overthrow the ruling government. It’s happened twice since colonization. The first one, the American Revolution, succeeded. The second one, the Civil War, failed. But they are both qualifying events. Now we can do math.


(post publication author’s note: This is the “five minute” version of how to do the math. There are certainly deeply more complicated analyses someone could use to establish the P(R) number, and someone with the resources to do so should absolutely do that. But I don’t find this result unreasonable. 5/5/2018)

Stepping through this, the average year for colony establishment is 1678, which is 340 years ago. Two qualifying events in 340 years is a 0.5882% annual chance of nationwide violent revolution against the ruling government. Do the same math as we did above with the floodplains, in precisely the same way, and we see a 37% chance that any American of average life expectancy will experience at least one nationwide violent revolution.

This is a bigger chance than your floodplain-bound home flooding during your mortgage.

It’s noticeably bigger.

Following the same procedure, we can see that even over an 18-year span we have a 10% chance of violent revolution, which is an interesting thought experiment to entertain before you have kids. It’s also important to note that a violent nation-state transition doesn’t just affect people who live in a floodplain. It affects everyone stuck in the middle. Especially the poor and defenseless.

But You’re Cheating
Am I? Two instances in 340 years is not a great data pool to work with, I will grant, but if you take a grab sample of other countries around the world you’ll see this could be much worse. Since our 1678 benchmark, Russia has had a two world wars, a civil war, a revolution, and at least half a dozen uprisings, depending on how you want to count them. Depending on when you start the clock, France had a 30-year war, a seven-year war, a particularly nasty revolution, a counter-revolution, that Napoleon thing, and a couple of world wars tacked on the end. China, North Korea, Vietnam, and basically most of the Pacific Rim has had some flavor of violent revolution in the last 100 years, sometimes more than one. With Africa, it’s hard to even conceive where to start and end the data points. Most Central and South American countries have had significant qualifying events in the time span. And honestly, if we were to widen our analysis to not only include nationwide violent civil wars, but also instances of slavery, internment, and taking of native lands, our own numbers go way up.

Or we could look at a modern snapshot. Counting places like the Vatican, we have 195 countries on the planet today. Somalia is basically in perpetual war, Syria is a hot mess with no signs of mitigation any time soon, Iraq is sketchy, Afghanistan has been in some flavor of civil war or occupation my entire life outside the salad days of the Taliban, and Libya is in such deep throes of anarchy that they’ve reinvented the African slave trade. Venezuela. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict may be a qualifying event depending on how you define it. And again, Africa is … hard to even conceive of where to start. Spitballing, perhaps 3% of the nations in the modern world are in some version of violent revolt against the ruling government, some worse than others. There’s at least some case to be made that our 0.5% annual chance estimate may be low, if we’re looking at comps.

Or we could look at a broader historical brush. Since the fall of Constantinople in 1453, there have been 465 sovereign nations which no longer exist, and that doesn’t even count colonies, secessionist states, or annexed countries. Even if we presume that half of these nation-state transitions were peaceful, which is probably a vast over-estimation, that’s still an average of one violent state transition every 2.43 years.

If we look at raw dialectic alone, we reach dismal conclusions. “Do you think the United States will exist forever and until the end of time?” Clearly any reasonable answer must be “no.” So at that point, we’re not talking “if,” but “when.” If you don’t believe my presumed probability, cook up your own, based on whatever givens and data pool you’d like, and plug it in. The equations are right up there. Steelman my argument in whatever way you like, and the answer will still probably scare you.

Eyes on the Horizon
In 2010, 8.5 million tourists visited Syria, accounting for 14% of their entire GDP. Eight years later, they have almost half a million dead citizens, and ten million more displaced into Europe. They didn’t see this coming, because if they did, they would have fled sooner. Nobody notices the signs of impending doom unless they’re looking carefully.

Further, the elites of a nation rarely take it on the chin. They can hop on a plane. The poor, disenfranchised, and defenseless experience the preponderance of the suffering, violence, and death. They’re the ones that should be worried.

Pretend you’re someone with your eyes on the horizon. What would you be looking for, exactly? Increasing partisanship. Civil disorder. Coup rhetoric. A widening wealth gap. A further entrenching oligarchy. Dysfunctional governance. The rise of violent extremist ideologies such as Nazism and Communism. Violent street protests. People marching with masks and dressing like the Italian Blackshirts. Attempts at large scale political assassination. Any one of those might not necessarily be the canary in the coal mine, but all of them in aggregate might be alarming to someone with their eyes on the horizon. Someone with disproportionate faith in the state is naturally inclined to disregard these sorts of events as a cognitive bias, while someone with little faith in the state might take these signs to mean they should buy a few more boxes of ammunition.

“Prepping” is Just Disaster Planning
“But if one of these things happens, you’re screwed anyway!” Well, sure. The point of disaster planning for a hurricane, tornado, earthquake, or wildfire, is not to be “not-screwed.” It’s to be notably less screwed. Ready.gov is the central point for information about family disaster preparedness planning here in the US. They list a wide range of things they think you might want to prepare for. Chief among these is flooding, which is my field, but they also list many other things an alarmist might include in their family disaster preparedness plan, from volcanoes and tsunamis to space debris, nukes, and terrorist dirty bombs. Violent nation-state transition doesn’t make the list, though, because the list was compiled by the government. But the best one to prepare for, in my opinion, is zombies.

The zombie apocalypse is obviously pure fiction, but it has an allure to a few tongue-in-cheek preppers because of its functional completeness. If you are prepared for zombies, you are literally prepared for anything. The key fixture of zombie preparedness is a fundamental understanding of what happens when our systems of economics, governance, and civil infrastructure fail. There’s a great one going on right now in Venezuela, with people eating rats and dogs, incapable of trading in the local currency, and a general humanitarian disaster associated with descent into anarchy. No class of person is more capable of riding out a situation like that than a well-provisioned zombie prepper. Various fixtures of zombie prepping include:

Food stockpiles
Access to clean (or cleanable) water
Shelter that exists away from the zombies (a.k.a. other citizens)
Subsistence agriculture
Medicinal supplies
A way to defend items 1–5. In modern terms, that means firearms. Rifles in particular.
Optional: Escape method. Sailboats rank highly on any objective list here.
For the ethical zombie prepper, firearms are a relatively small piece of this overall disaster plan, but a necessary one. For an unethical zombie prepper, firearms may be all they need, if they can find someone else from whom to steal.

The Bosnian War is a great test case for this, and many firsthand experiences have been chronicled since, about how prepper-minded people were the likeliest to survive.

And it’s not just tin foil hat equipped right wingers thinking about this stuff. There’s a widely reported trend of Silicon Valley billionaires building apocalypse bunkers, as many as 50% according to Steve Huffman, the guy who founded Reddit. Yishan Wong, another former Reddit CEO, goes through a conceptual ROI analysis with The New Yorker.

Yishan Wong, an early Facebook employee, was the C.E.O. of Reddit from 2012 to 2014. He, too, had eye surgery for survival purposes, eliminating his dependence, as he put it, “on a nonsustainable external aid for perfect vision.” In an e-mail, Wong told me, “Most people just assume improbable events don’t happen, but technical people tend to view risk very mathematically.” He continued, “The tech preppers do not necessarily think a collapse is likely. They consider it a remote event, but one with a very severe downside, so, given how much money they have, spending a fraction of their net worth to hedge against this . . . is a logical thing to do.”
And it’s not just the techies. A lot of folks in Hollywood are thinking the same thing. It’s big business out there.

Gary Lynch, GM at Rising S Bunkers, a Texas-based company that specializes in underground bunkers and services scores of Los Angeles residences, says that sales at the most upscale end of the market — mainly to actors, pro athletes and politicians (who require signed NDAs) — have increased 700 percent this year compared with 2015, and overall sales have risen 150 percent.
So that’s another canary in the coal mine for the tin foil hat right winger — you have a class of people who are vehemently demanding confiscation of rifles in the public sphere, while some of them are secretly building underground fortresses in the private sphere.

Buy another box of ammo. Clearly.

A Fundamental Disconnect on Rifles
When our semiannual mass shooter culture war erupts after the latest round of media Handwaving Freakoutery, it always seems to focus on rifles. Most recently, we had some guy cut his own AR-15 in half on YouTube, to thunderous applause. Don’t mischaracterize my position. If Mr. Pappalardo thought that he might be prone to murdering someone with his rifle, or more statistically likely — purposely killing himself with it, then he should absolutely sell or destroy it. But if he isn’t going to do either of those things, all he must do to ensure it doesn’t hurt anyone is not shoot anyone with it. He could leave it in his attic with a couple of cans of ammunition, just in case something horrible does transpire where he might actually need it. There are certain things in the world you’d rather have and not need, than need and not have. And paramount among those things, given the state of the modern human condition, is a rifle.

So if you ask someone else on the opposite side of a culture war argument, “Why would you want to own one of those things, anyway?” please don’t be surprised if they simply respond, “Why wouldn’t you?”

I thought I would never handle another M16 after I left the Army in 1978. As a matter of fact, I don’t recall firing one after 1975 or so. I rekindled my interest in 2005, but fire them less than all my other rifles combined. But I never forgot how to use them ;-)

I'm not a black rifle/AR guy either........others can have at it.

I have 1 AR with an extra upper in 6.5 grendal and us it for pigs with a surpressor and thermal night vision. They are just hardware and are BORING.
If I didn't have a hog problem I wouldn't own one.

I agree, We have had them cut fence, leave gates open, and throw out garbage. Access is denied to many because of a few.
Hunters that are willing to walk are willing to crawl under a wire fence, put the garbage in their pack and don't unnecessarily disturb livestock

A couple of the young (early-20s) sales guys I work with were very curious yesterday about how I’d managed to generate more leads (and contracts) in a couple days.... than our entire marketing team had in a week. My response: “you guys need to take a more tactical approach”. Meaning; do your research, be prepared, and focus on areas/people where your efforts will be more effective.... know your enemy, so to speak.

One of the kids looked at me all weirded-out.... and literally said “I hate guns, I’ll never take a tactical approach to anything”.

Funny how the word “Tactical” inspires visions of guys rappelling off a rooftop and smashing through a window with MP5 in hand...... especially to snowflakes.... and the 24HCF Get-off-my-Lawn crew.

I’d take one good synthetic stocked, stainless barreled, quality scoped rifle... in a caliber capable of pushing .550-.650 BC bullets at 2900ish.... over a dozen Pre-64 M70’s. But to me, rifles are tools, and they need to be able to handle everything I, and Mother Nature, can throw at them.

I'm planning an entire line of shooting related products based on the buzzword "strategic". The catch phrase will be "take tactical to the next level...".

Briefcase nukes?

I read some of those tactical mags so I can learn about stuff I don't find in Rifle or Handloader. I have AR's and some semi auto loading pistols that don't have wood grips, handguns and rifles that are working tools that I don't have to baby, not that I beat the hell out of my firearms anyway. I also like Fur Fish and Game and the Backwoodsman magazines as well as muzzle loading articles. I try to think of myself as broadminded interests (yeah like women and alcohol too). I ain't never wore my ballcap backwards or my pants halfway down my ass. Just trying to keep up with what's out there. MB

I’ve spent a small fortune on a couple dozen wood and blue custom rifles because that’s where my heart lies. I have two boys (now young men) and they really like the black rifles and a NM M1A1 I have. The boys love the LEGO-part accessories they can snap on and off the ARs plus they can burn a lot of cheap ammo we don’t have to reload. If that’s what it takes to get them into guns and shooting then I love it. Eventually I hope they fall in love with my nicer rifles.

In the meantime my oldest boy is shooting mini guns from helicopters and Uncle Sam is paying for the ammo. Maybe he’ll get the cap busting thrill out of his system and he’ll appreciate again a nice custom Mauser I had built for him when he was a little kid.

There's hope Forrest. Most fellas grow weary of the roar from a mini after awhile, especially when the muzzle end is only a few feet from their face. Flight helmets help....a little.

I bought an AR to scratch an itch. I played with it for awhile and sold it. Terrible carrying rifle.. The magazine is right where the carry point should be.. Too many angles and sharp points to stick into you back when slung. More power to anyone who wants to own and shoot one. They are just not for me.

Tikkas for fun and hunting, ARs and Glocks for more practical affairs and fun. You can have it all if you wish.


mike r

I feel exactly the same. Awkward damn things.

That's a whole nuther can of worms. Don't go laying this at the feet of private land owners. I used to keep my land open and free to anyone who wanted to hunt and fish. After years of finding trees cut, fields rutted up, truck loads of trash and carcasses from illegal kills, along with other disregards for my land, I have been posting my property. I have found that someone with enough integrity to knock on my door, present himself like a gentleman, and ask for permission, is 99% of the time going to be respectful of my property. And I will still give that person permission. Anyone who is now caught trespassing without permission is arrested and I press charges. It's been working well for six years, now.

Sorry to take the long way around, but to get back to your original statement, the problem is not with landowners posting. It's the inconsiderate slobs who have forced us to do so.

I like and own all firearms from flintlocks to AR’s, It’s not the guns, it’s the rest of it....

Don't try to feed me your fuggin bullshyt. It does rest securely at the feet of landowners and hunters and particularly landowners who are hunters. All of whom are out to be the big hero trophy hunters these days. Planting food plots, putting out feeders, "letting them go so they can grow" and keeping other hunters from shooting "their deer" so they can raise their very own trophy bucks. Other non huting landowners know how far gone these bozo's who measure their dicks by how big of a buck they kill are cashing in with big lease fee's too. The end result is more and more land locked up and more and more hunters locked out. I've been watching it happen in real time over the last 50 years. If you indeed do give permission to those who ask to hunt on your land you are the exception today, not the rule and I've damn sure knocked on enough doors and know enough landowners/hunters to know damn good and well what I'm talking about. Oh, and as the the inconsiderate slobs. No doubt there are plenty of those these days. The funny thing is, it always seems to be the guys who post their property that have the most trouble with them. My grandfather and great uncle owned farms in Otsego and Delaware Counties in upstate NY. Neither of those properties had a posted sign on it from 1946 when purchased until 2003 and 2007 when they died and the farms were sold. Neither ever had any problems with hunters to speak of and tons of people hunted over the years.

I think you nailed it eagle, and I agree with you, especially with the general hunting public and trespassing. No way in hades' I'd let just anyone hunt my ground, especially nitwits like Blackheart.

As if I'd ever go to that shyt hole you call home. Everybody know there ain't any real huntin goes on in Texas anyways. You ass holes have so perverted the word you don't even know what it means anymore.

BH, you apparently know as much about hunting TX as you showed in your posts regarding hunting the Adirondacks vs. hunting the West. Those were some real gems.........

This is my FAV Black Rifle --> --> 70 Black Shadow 300 WM




Jerry

I know when I see a nice buck that's been killed in Texas I immediately discount it as a non trophy and figure there's a better than even chance it was shot on a private ranch complete with feeders and likely a " trophy management plan" in place. The fact that feeders/nutrition plans, intense trophy management, culling for improvement of the gene pool and so on and so forth is widely practiced and condoned in Texas has fugged up your sandbox so to speak. At least as far as I'm concerned, no buck taken under those conditions is deseving of legitimate trophy status. Kinda like a big catfish caught out of a private pond where they've been fed every day of their lives or a 15 pound bass caught out of the aquarium at Bass Pro. Wow, what an accomplishment. For both the fish and the fisherman..

Your stupidity is once again on parade for all the 'fire to see.

I've got a Blackheart spotting.....

How so. All of those things are obviously in wide practice and widely accepted in Texas as is more than evident by the posts made by Texans here on the fire.

Bwahahahahahaaaa!!!!! You're killing me....

Crickets from the big mouth, big eared Texican ?

If you owned private property,would you manage for bigger deer? Would you open it up to strangers or save it for family and friends?

I want to hunt mature deer,and I don't trust strangers based on past experiences, so the answer for me is easy.

Public land abounds in many states for those willing to do what it takes to hunt there.

No I would not manage for bigger deer. I could have posted my grandfathers farm 45 years ago but did not. I hunted it for many years right along with dozens of friends, neighbors, relatives and strangers. I do own a small parcel of land now and it is not posted. I have come home from work and as soon as I pulled in the driveway saw an orange clad hunter perched on a log in my woods 100 yards from the house. I went up and introduced myself. Told the guy I didn't care if he sat there so long as he didn't shoot in the direction of the house.

After 21 years in the Air Force, I honestly could have cared less if I handled another M16A2 or M4 again in my life. I became a contractor last July (no my company doesn't carry weapons) and when I went home on R&R, my son enlisted in the Army National Guard, and asked if we could build an AR together. I decided I would and have everything ready for him when he returns home from AIT in the fall. My youngest son, plays the video games where they shoot each other up and I have not had any luck trying to get him to shoot real guns with me. I thought maybe the AR build with the older son, would be two fold and I could get the youngest to go shoot the real deal with me. I prefer bolt action rifles and nice shotguns. Had my son not asked to build an AR, I would have rather spent the money on a new bolt gun in .280 AI and a new 28 gauge for grouse and ptarmigan hunting.

That being said, I have two co-workers that one retired AF and the other did 6 years and got out. Neither one of them deployed while on AD, but all they talk about are AR this and AR that. It's quite boring to be honest with you hearing them talk about having 8 plus AR's all in the same caliber. Oh well, they shoot and support the 2nd Amendment, so that's good.

I have a tactical K Hornet.

Excellent post.
I built my AR-15.450BUSHMASTER for deer hunting. (Ohio requires a straight wall cartridge between. 357-.50cal).
I went with the AR platform because it's modular. Swap uppers, and magizines, and it's a new rifle. Different ammo, different range, different purpose. I can't afford a lot of different rifles. But I can watch the sales, and buy another piece from time to time.
With the ammo shortages we have all seen, different uppers means options are available.
(I know someone with a .35 Remington, and had only 4 bullets left, and could not find a source for more ammo. He was asking if anyone had any, or could find any for him. At the time, he could not find any at any price.)
I haven't decided on my next upper yet, but it will likely be a 5.56, or it could be a 6.5 Grendel.
It ain't about looking "tacticool" as being Versatile.

As for the rookie cop showing up at the range wearing his work gear, how many times have I heard "train as you will actually use it, practice as if it were real." ?
Besides, if he did have some issue with his work gear interfering his accuracy or ability, it would be much better to discover that at the range, than when someone's life could be lost, due to a sleeve getting caught, or a vest not fitting right. If it could effect his accuracy, he should practice in it.
I know a bowman who when hunting in a Ghillie suit without practice beforehand. It cost him his deer, because he got hung up in his suit.

Very, very weird. Getting to know poachers?

Let me throw in another angle on this tactical thing.

I was a caver in the late 70's to mid 80's. I went down the hole about every 6 weeks during that time, and I wore and used pretty much what everyone else was using. Most of it was milsurp. We went in wearing jungle boots, wearing web belts and carrying gas mask bags. We looked like a cross between garbage collectors and light infantry.

There wasn't anything military about us. It was just that caving had a bunch of distinct demands, and old military surplus was the only thing out there at the time that met those demands. We were slogging through water in 50F and 100% humidity for 12 hours at a time, and we needed gear that would stand up to the abuse. Stuff left over from WWII and Korea and Vietnam were the only things out there.

Nowadays, cavers look like they have just left a Pilates class. It's all bright colors and stretchy fabrics and fancy. Over time the manufacturers found the niche and started making stuff for it.

I see somewhat the same thing going on with hunting. On the one hand, you're looking for stuff that best meets the demand of the sport at the right price point. Mil spec and Mil Surp does the trick. Second, you have manufacturers that are trying to situate themselves into the market and meet consumer expectations.

And it isn't just hunting anymore. I had a consultant come in the other day with a tactical Molle laptop case in Desert Tan.

As a hunter I want a light sleek rifle with a flush magazine . A single shot rifle is even more compact, leverguns are easy to carry all day .
An AR is too awkward to carry on a horse, they are not sleek and all the projections would catch on brush etc while hunting.
I often carry two rounds, both in the magazine ready for use with my repeaters. The balance are in the pack. It works well.
So, is the tactical wave a way to increase sales in an industry that is serving a smaller hunting community? Is it all for those that like a follow trends? Is it defined by age? If it is driven by those that play games of violent shooting on their computer or ultra violent movies , we are all in trouble, imo
My guess is that the real professionals, ex serviceman who used them in warfare have little interest in them as civilians.
I would like to hear from( more) ex military types and how they feel about this trend. Curious, folks.

comerade,


For many shooting is fun. When I was working, myself and several co-workers/vets got together twice a month to train, mostly w/ ARs and handguns. We have a lot of interesting terrain here and would set up courses of fire w/ targets from 3 yards-400 yards requiring movement and a variety of positions and solutions. Shot timers were frequently used and the competition was good natured but fierce and everyone worked hard to improve and learn new TTPs. I typically arrived w/ at least 2 ARs and 2 Glocks and a short ton of ammo. These were 6-8 hour affairs and we had a ball as well as improving a lot of skills.

The world of "defensive" shooting has evolved massively since 9/11 and "real world" standards are no longer opinions or theories but factual methods developed and proven in the most unforgiving of crucibles. What actually works is now knowledge available to all and attainable to some degree if that sort of thing interests you and you are willing to put in the effort.


mike r

I think it depends on the individual. Those that were never around guns before joining the military seem to have a liking to them after they leave service. Many of is that were around guns and hunted prefer the more traditional style of guns. This is just my limited observation, and then there are people that like both. I believe they both have a place and purpose. After I get my two builds together, my opinion on AR's may change.

I'll be your huckleberry. After a career in the Army, and serving in Iraq, I was adamantly anti "black-gun." I felt like an M16 was my work rifle used for killing man, whereas wood and blued rifles were "hunting rifles."

My sons, however, were all about ARs and wanted to build a couple. I resisted, but eventually let them have their way. Finally, after some time, I joined them at the range and shot their ARs.

Maybe it was nostalgia, maybe trying to regain my youth, but I really enjoyed it - it felt like an old friend and I had instant familiarity, ease and comfort with the AR rifle.

Since then, I've done a complete 180' - I've sold off most of my wood and blue guns and have gone in full-bore with ARs. It's an extremely enjoyable hobby to me and easy to work on and make changes versus a bolt rifle.

No, I don't wear tacti-cool clothing or buy "combat" gear to shoot at the range. More often than not, you'll see me shooting my ARs wearing Levis and a Stetson.

The AR has brought in new shooters and to a large degree re-energized the shooting sports with the younger generation.

Where the fugg did your stupid ass get that ? Goddammit you're a f^cktard. And a mouthy little bastard too. I guess you must be the type who would fish the aquarium at Bsss Pro and have that 15 pound bass proudly displayed on your living room wall. About like the Texans that are all proud of those purposely fed and raised "managed" ranch bucks. Most of those ass holes couldn't find a spikehorn to shoot on public land.

I agree with these sentences . i own a old farm that i purchased over 20 years ago with my hard earned money ,while i raised my kids and put them thru college. we are part of the white tax paying middle class people so money is tight. but i finally now have that hunting land paid for my family,friend and myself hunt on. my land is posted , i paid for it ,we shoot a decent buck or 2 every year .would i allow the public on my land ? no way ! i don`t care if someone from my family uses a black gun,pink gun green gun as long as they tag the deer they shoot themselves.

Who's land did you guys hunt on when you were young ? When I started there was unposted private property all over the place to hunt and yes I hunted it. So did a lot of other selfish pricks who now have property of their own and won't let anybody hunt other than family or close friends. It's no wonder young folks aren't getting into the sport these days. You want to know why ? Just look in the mirror.

God forbid a man buys himself some land and doesn’t let every swinging dick on it as they see fit. No need to help pay taxes, help maintain the land or give anything back to the man who pays those bills.

I guess all private landowners are a bunch of selfish ässholes. 🙄

More likely they are just tired of free losers trashing their land and I don’t blame them. Funny you talk about having trouble getting access to private lands to hunt as I haven’t had that problem. Of course I always say thank you, offer to help out around the place and always send a thank you card and a gift after the fact. Funny enough I have always been welcomed back and formed solid friendships with many of these folks.

Just got back a few weeks ago from a great permit spring bear hunt here in WA where I had the run of several thousand acres of private posted land chock full of bears. Hell the land owners bought US pizza and beer one night, chopped brisket and sides the next and steak and taters another night!

I got home and promptly sent a thank you card with enough gift cards for the lady of the house to have a spa day and lunch with her friend and the man of the ranch got a new pair of Meopta 10x42’s as he’s a typical farmer and won’t spend money on good glass.

Got a heartfelt thanks for my generosity and an invite back any time I want. Guess it helps to give back to the farmers and nurture those relationships.


Probably a lesson/clue for you in my post somewhere but I doubt you’ll ever learn it

I know where he got that. This quote ." I have come home from work and as soon as I pulled in the driveway saw an orange clad hunter perched on a log in my woods 100 yards from the house. I went up and introduced myself. Told the guy I didn't care if he sat there so long as he didn't shoot in the direction of the house. "
By definition, that's a poacher in this state. He MUST have written permission in his pocket before he sets up to hunt in this state. It MUST be specific to the property, the year/season must be marked, and it must be signed by BOTH of you. He must be able to produce it by demand to any game officer. Anything less, and he IS a poacher. I usually have a land owner sign off for each hunter in our group, in 2 years groups (so I'm legal this year, and next year, so I don't need to bother him without need). But he must sign the permission slips for every single hunter, even when hunting as a group.
So, if he shows up uninvited, on your land, without your written approval to show, he is in clear violation of the law (at least locally. And weither or not you approve. )

Geezus you're as stupid as these other jackwagons on here. I never said I have trouble getting permission to hunt on private land you idiot. In fact I have permission on several tracts spanning 6 Counties in upstate NY. I also have several million acres of State land to hunt here and I'm no stranger to it. Who's land did you hunt on when you first started out ?

I’ve hunted a combo of state and private posted land my entire life. Every piece of private I’ve ever been able to hunt going back to my start at 9 years old is land I got permission on myself.

My father and grandfather taught me to hunt and also to be responsible to the landowners. They never once knocked on a door for me, nor did they spend their summers bucking hay, fixing fences or other general chores to ensure my continued access. Nope they taught my the value of that access and left the sweat equity up to me!

Never once did I get upset that someone told me no as I was and am damn sure they have their reasons and again it’s their land and not mine. But like I said I give back to them however I can to show my appreciation and the invites continue year to year.

But unlike yourself I don’t expect handouts or someone to allow me access to something that isn’t mine as your posts seem to indicate you do!

By your rationale no one should have a bank account either. Just get paid in cash and keep it on your porch for everyone to take as they see fit.

No as normal the moron here is YOU!

Dang, the gunwriters forum is almost as entertaining as the optics forum.

Geezus christ another idiot reading shyt into my posts that isn't there ! What a surprise. The point is, you didn't need to get permission to hunt private land back when I started because not everybody was a selfish ass hole and posted their land. My biggest decision back then was where I wanted to go out of the dozens of unposted farms/tracts of land. Trophy hunters who are afraid somebody else might shoot their big buck on their property are the biggest reason most of it got posted over the years.

Laughing at you...

What a miserable POS and dumb as a rock to boot...

You can't handle the truth. Talk about miserable pieces of shyt. Idiot.

I'd share a campfire with Blackheart anytime. His hunting style and hunting background seem very similar to mine and like him I miss the old days when very little land was Posted. And if it was we took it to mean P.lenty O.f S.quirrels T.urkeys E.ven D.eer.

GregW, I googled Blackheart, and this popped up....

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence As described by social psychologists, the cognitive bias of illusory superiority results from an internal illusion in people of low ability.

LOL, the old-fashioed way would've been to dust off the Webster's and Look up "Dumbass."

i have always have hunted on family or friends land in my home state,even when i was a kid ,my reason to many idiots on state or federal land.the reason kids don`t hunt as much broken families,liberals and no Christ in their lives. My grandkids are little but my 6 year old grandson is learn`n with his red rider BB gun right now and so will the rest of my grandkids with me. plus i am also coaching neighbor boys the correct way to shoot registered trap " clay pigeons ".i have taught a few kids archery that have gone on to be F.S. state champions too. some have hunted with me on my private land too. i still believe private land is much safer to hunt on and to see deer move natural and we don`t kill all deer ever.,this brown and its down crap is just wrong thats how people get hurt or killed.

Yeah I sure miss seeing all the land with no signs on it. Those POSTED signs all over are really uglying things up nowdays.

I did. There was a picture of your stupid lookin little old man ass in there. Complete with the dorky doo rag. Then I looked up "imbecile" and darned if there wasn't a pic of a guy with a goofy little rat face and big Dumbo ears.

LOL, you go, girl.

Hehehehehehe...........

They must have a newer version out. When i googled Blackheart , it said someone who only hunts with a guide.

I have to stand with Kellory on this one. A letter of permission is nowadays a requirement in Ohio. In KY, it can be verbal.



As a landowner, I'm pleased with this state of affairs. I limit access to just my family and a few friends. It isn't about hoarding all the big bucks either. It's about safety. We all know where we are going to be hunting. We all know when the others in our party are moving and where they are going. If a poacher were to get on the property during one of our hunts, there could be grief. I was on my way out with Mooseboy to go turkey hunting one day, and got sprayed by a poacher shooting at turkeys in the middle of our property. The poacher had been told to stay off already.

Blackie

When YOU are the minority of ONE, everybody else is not WRONG ! thinkaboutit

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Now what does this subject have to do with " Why so much tactical stuff ? "

No need to explain yourself on this topic. It's your land, and nobody else's business.

Interesting thread here.

I have my own take and I'm pretty sure it's as unique as everyone else's.

I always preferred blue and walnut like the rifles I saw in our gunracks from the early 60s on. These days I think it reminds me of cherished folks who are long gone. In the early 2000s I bought a couple of synthetic stocked rifles and came to appreciate those more when I found I could use them to beat my way through thick brush with them without damaging their aesthetic appeal. I now have synthetics on about 80% of my rifles, but I still love the look of nicely proportioned walnut stocks.

Whatever is meant by "tactical," I don't think it matters much. A rifle is a rifle and whatever a guy chooses to tote is just fine with me. Some of them, I would not and no one is trying to coerce me into carrying one as far as I can tell.

Personally, I'm not interested in the long range game as it is played. I don't care about hitting an MOA-sized target at 1500 yards. How far can I hit a large cantaloupe? That DOES interest me because it has practical application.

Why all the surge in popularity in "tactical" or long range shooting...I think there are a lit of correct answers and some of it is very practical, I'm sure, and some of it is downright silly. Just depends on the person. I know there are serious and capable shooters who can take out a critter from 800 yards, and that's their gig. More power to em. I know there are also goofball wannabes who don't know anything other than what they've been told by their buddies and who should not be carrying a rifle in the woods. I think a lot of the trend is powered by a few things, like all the warfare we've been engaged in the last 17 years, or maybe even back to Desert Storm in '91. The last few decades have also seen the rise in "extreme sports" where guys are trying stuff that no one would have even attempted in the 1960s. Then there's just the natural progression of technology that has revolutionized consumerism anywhere you look.

I first fired an AR15 in the early 80s and it didn't really interest me. I finally owned one in the late 90s and didn't keep it long. Then I bought another around 2005, mostly because I knew the marxist left didn't want me to have it. Then ever so slowly as the accuracy potential of these became more widely known, that single AR cloned itself. Then I discovered how useful an AR can be for slaughtering pigs, and my ARs began to multiply just like those pigs. It's a very interesting platform and its modular nature makes it very adaptable.

Everyone's perspective on shooting and hunting is probably unique. If the two sports are going to survive, we'd best adopt a more tolerant outlook on those who want to do it in a way different from our own. By all means, let's encourage and promote safety and stop being so damned judgemental when it comes to tools and venues.

That's MY penny's worth.

Everyone's perspective on shooting and hunting is probably unique. If the two sports are going to survive, we'd best adopt a more tolerant outlook on those who want to do it in a way different from our own. By all means, let's encourage and promote safety and stop being so damned judgemental when it comes to tools and venues.

RiverRider has said it best ! so have fun and be safe,Pete53

I love a nice walnut stock rifle with rust blueing.I bought my first AR about 30 years ago because the PC crowd did not want me to have one.Then I found out how accurate a heavy barreled varmint AR could be.The perfect Prairie Rat gun.I have RRA 223 Wylde and 20 Practical that can shoot in the 3s with no problem.Huntz

Large groups of people are wrong all the time. It's the herd mentality and inability to take blame where it's due. One need look no further than any large city and the democrat/liberal mindset. Those folks are never wrong. Just ask them. I have watched the large scale posting of land here over my lifetime with my own eyes and have heard all the reasons/excuses for it over and over. In more than one case I saw guys who hunted my grandfathers property for years buy land of their own and immediately post it and refuse permission to anyone outside their own family. A fine way to pay back the generosity they were shown when they had no land of their own.

I think a reason why more and more property owners are not allowing access is due to legal and liability concerns.

People by and large these days do not have personal responsibility. We live in a litigious society. Something goes wrong, people want to shift the blame to someone else and are more than happy to go to court.

As a property owner, you definitely need to be concerned and conscious of the possible legal liability that would result if someone gets hurt on your land. Doesn't really matter if you have a signed waiver stating landowner has no responsibility/liability for accidents. Lawyers will still take you to court. Who needs that headache?

In addition, many people these days have no respect for others and their property. Trashing up the place, bringing in friends and family, unsafe shooting/hunting practices.... list goes on. Not surprising why more and more land is posted.

I own hunting property here in Texas and also in northern Missouri. Aside from immediately family and an occasional guest that's with me, I don't allow others to hunt my land. Period.

That reason holds absolutely no water in NYS. There is a LAW here that clearly states a landowner cannot be held liable for any injury/damages incurred by anyone given permission to hunt their land. That law DOES NOT APPLY to landowners who charge for access and they can be held liable for injury/damages.

Agreed. When we hunt as a group, we all know where each member will be, and his field of fire. We use aerial maps of the property to make sure this is clear.
Any unknown shooter on the property is by definition, a loose cannon, and can do more harm than good.

[/b]

What’s your bitch? Several million acres of State land you can hunt...Hunt away and be happy without the taste of sour wine on your breath...

I hunt 80% diy BLM land...20% Private land with diy accessibility to all with a willingness to hike in to hunt the property.

Private land only has an appeal to me for upland bird or varmint hunting...Like Mallard pointedly posted. I too never had a problem cultivating relationships with land owners. I show appreciation to them with my wallet and well thought out gifting of hunting gear or smoked fish that isn’t easily obtained in their part of the State.

Try being nice to a land owner for a change...SMFH 😎

Dude, it's Blackheart....

There's a bitch and woe is me somewhere....

And yet another mouthy dumbass speaks without reading the whole thread. Either that or you're just too stupid to understand what was written. Which is it ? Don't be shy. It's not a sin to be dumb.

Yup....

There he or she is right on cue ..

You suck a mean ass.

I'm telling you guys...........

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence As described by social psychologists, the cognitive bias of illusory superiority results from an internal illusion in people of low ability.

Live in denial much ? This raise your very own trophy bucks shyt started in Texas and spread North like the disease to the sport that it is. Now everybody thinks they can be a big trophy hunter hero if they just keep everybody off their land and feed/nurture/raise big bucks. Hell we've got people here feeding by the tons even though it's illegal to do so and they have a hissy fit if they hear somebody shot a promising young buck within a mile of their property.

You are literally the biggest douche nozzle on this board....

That says something.

Show us some hunting photos big guy. Dare ya....

In my opinion you're the biggest douche nozzle on this board. I don't give a shyt what you think. Hows that grab your stinkin little poosy ?

Just reaffirms....

Tell us some more hunting stories. Can't wait...

Stupid??? I guess so...Killing diy on public land never confused me like it does you. Maybe you should only hunt high fenced pets for your table eats...😎

I see backfsrt is still a whiny [bleep]. I grew up hunting my family's farm land. Now I hunt our hunting club land along with several other private lands..I've never had problems finding private land to hunt...like Beaver said. I show appreciation with my back or wallet. One farm that we hunt waterfowl on..we buy the owner a couple of boxes of Good cigars a year..another we do some hay..another I d his crop depredation shooting for him. Another we help fix fences. One thing we do not do is bitch and belittle land owners for posting THEIR property. And often we don't even ask to deer hunt. Normally we ask to Grouse hunt. Or goose hunt fields...that has almost always ked to opportunities to deer hunt.

BH and bsa lead the nation in lip service when it comes to killing stuff.

Well now the Beav has successfully removed all doubt about whether or not he's a retard. Congratulations ? If you ever read somebody's posts instead of just spouting nonsense in a feeble effort to appear intelligent or witty you might not appear so dumb. I live where I do because of the abundance of public land in the area. Have hunted it all my life and no doubt killed more deer on public ground than you ever will.

Funny as hell you having to pay or work to get permission to hunt private ground. No doubt because you're an ass hole and have no friends. As I said before I have permission to hunt on private land in 6 counties. All owned by personal friends and no payment required to hunt.

Another hopeful goes “All In” wearing her favorite keyboard hunting out fit...It’s her new camo. 😎.

i don`t like to be a cheap bastard when i use some friends land, i return the favor i either do work,buy him some booze,maybe some of the deer i make sausage with ,but i understand the land they own cost them money too ,land taxes cost money . my friends that hunt with me,i don`t ask for anything but they do bring some tasty steaks, cold beer, dam good Whiskey ! and some mournings at my deer camp can be a little rough and we are all look`n for aspirin - coffee too ! oh how i hate that mourning hang over taste - ick ! >>>i can`t wait tell this next fall 2019 !!!!!!! hope you guys all have a great safe fall hunt ! Pete53

Some folks just aren’t up for the challenge of hunting public land.... plain and simple. Complaining about not being able to hunt someone’s Private Land.... is like a homeless guy complaining that he can’t pitch a tent (and take schitt) in your yard.... it wreaks of entitlement, and it’s just plain stupid.

I respect Private Land, and the Owner’s RIGHT to allow access as they see fit. Much like this thread, and most other threads on the 24HCF... a few idiots tend to ruin it for the good folks.

We’ve killed several nice critters the past couple of years, by getting permission not to “hunt” on the heavily posted Private Land.... but rather to walk through that Private Land, in order to access the Public Land behind it. I’ve never been told No when I’ve asked permission to do this.

Most people I hear bitching about Public Land hunting.... don’t own a pair of broke-in boots....

The point of the whole issue went right over your pointy little head as I suppose most things do. It must suck to be so stupid. Can you chew gum and walk at the same time ?

My friends do favors for me and I do favors for them. They would never ask for or expect any kind of payment for any of it, including letting me hunt on their land.

Laffin....

You’re the one bitching.... I’m the one killin’ all kinds of critters...

Isn’t killin stuff and enjoying our wild lands the point?

When you get to thinking everyone else is the idiot.... you need to realize the only common idiot denominator is you.

There’s gotta be a private forum somewhere you can demand access too?

No dummy. The point is we're losing hunters like crazy and the trophy hunting craze is what's causing it. Most of you idiots just can't admit that. Hunting license sales here in NY have dropped from 1.4 million a year in the early '70's to 700,000 today. The biggest reason for that is the widespread posting of private land by wannabe trophy hunters. NYDEC has done surveys of former hunting license holders to see why they stopped buying licenses and the number one answer by far has been "loss of access to hunting land".. You can argue with that all you want but it will never change the fact that you'll be wrong. "Laffin" about it won't change it either.

It just feels wrong to flog the flesh from Bitch-Hearts ribs...For unknown reasons he must enjoy it.

Daddy issues would be a fair guess at what ails this feeble mind...😎

You cannot make up this kind of stupid....

Maybe landowners don't want idiots like you hunting there?

And you constantly bitching about it is doing what exactly? Reversing the situation? 😎

No you really can't make up YOUR special kind of stupid. I already explained in a past post in this very thread the hows and why's that most land is being posted up here. You obviously are too f^cking STUPID to read, comprehend and keep up with what's being said. Therefore you are too f^cking stupid to waste time talking to. Might as well talk to a brick wall. It's going to understand more than you.

I'm constantly seeing hunters here lament about falling hunter numbers. Obviously they don't want to take blame where blame is due. There are several landowners right here who admit they post their land and don't allow access to anyone but family or close friends. There are tons of guys like that all over and they are locking many others out of the sport. Hence why I said in an earlier post "if you want to see the reason for falling hunter numbers, look in the mirror".

I’ve personally taken at least a half dozen kids on their first hunt over the past couple of years.... along with two couples, and a few friends of my wife. Hunter numbers are increasing in my circle.

Maybe... just maybe.... hunter numbers are decreasing because ass-hats like yourself are busy bitching and moaning about not having access to SOMEONE ELSE’S LAND.... rather than taking a kid.... or a single-mom.... or a guy from work... on a public land hunt.

Showing someone how, and where, to hunt.... on publicly accessible (fee free) land.... is incredibly empowering... and contributes to rapid hunter growth.

Complaining to everyone within earshot about how “it ain’t like it used to be.... when I could hunt everyone else’s land”.... is certainly intimidating, and leads to a decrease in potential hunters.

Just some food for thought...

They're not bitching about anything dumbass. They're just quitting by the thousands and not buying licenses anymore. I made that clear in a previous post for those intelligent enough to read and understand.

And I stated what I’M DOING ABOUT IT....

What are YOU doing about it.... besides Bitching like an entitled little snowflake?

How do you figure I'm like and entitled snowflake ? I'm not much affected by loss of open land to hunt myself. I have hundreds of thousands of acres of public land to hunt within a short drive in any direction from my house. The majority of my hunting is done there. If I want to hunt private, I've got access to several tracts in each of six counties. I'm far from hurting for places to hunt personally. Still, I hate to see so much land posted up that was formerly open to hunting and I hate to see hunter numbers plummeting because it gives us very little voice against the anti hunting/anti gun urban/liberal majority in this state.

You ever pause and give thought that your complaints are felt by the same people you’re pissed off at?

Somebody had to get fed up enough with lack of access, lack of animals, too much exposure to dumb fugks in the woods with guns to the point they said screw it...

I’m gonna through down a 7 figure chunk of cash and buy myself, family, and friends, peace of mind in land that can’t be taken, aside from a financial hardship if financing it.

Would you drop a million dollars or more to hunt? That would be a whole new bitch fest thread for you...BH having to put his little mitts into his pocket to pull out some cash...Crazy talk, I know....GFY 😎

It’s pretty entitled to complain about not having access to something that belongs to someone else.... period.

But... I appreciate your sincere reply.

I guess what I’m saying is..... you’re complaining about hunter numbers dropping... and your concern is valid. But again, I ask, what are YOU doing about it?

Are you taking kids hunting.... co-workers..... single-moms?

I agree that the apparent lack of access is a hurdle for many new hunters. But, I think it also has to do with the fact that people just don’t want to work hard to accomplish anything anymore. Whether that’s killing a bull elk, building a business, raising quality children, etc. I see the “Private Land” argument akin to that.... why should hunting be easy?

I get it.... you miss the good’ole days.... hell, I do too. But I’ve watched my children kindly walk up to a landowner’s home and ask permission to hunt antelope on their land.... in exchange for a few light chores and some sausage from the animal they kill. They’ve never.... NEVER.... been told no.

Anybody asking for permission to deer hunt private land land here will be told no 95% of the time. Mostly the reason if any given will be "we hunt it" or we "lease it out". You're right that if people want to hunt badly enough they'll either hunt public land or find a way to pay to hunt private but waaay too many simply won't or can't for one reason or another. Public land isn't evenly distributed across the state here so can be a long drive for some folks depending on where they live. Obviously that is a big hurdle to a kid with no parent willing to take them. Ther are also plenty of adults who just don't want to deal with hunting public land for one reason or another. Some of those reasons were given by other posters in this thread. Some are scared of the unknown whereabouts of other hunters. Some don't care to deal with the vast forests with low numbers of deer spread out over a wide area. Others simply can't deal with getting into and packing out their game long distances from our larger wilderness areas. And some don't want to deal with the crowds on our more easily accessable smaller tracts of state forest. Those are the ones who will just give up on hunting altogether without access to private land close to home.

AGAIN.....

What are YOU doing about it?

My land is posted, and I could care less if the deer has a rack or not. I'm hunting meat for the freezer. You are assigning a reason that may or may not apply, to support your claims. I, for one, have my land posted, because I'm sick of the disrespect trespassers show my land and property Rights.
It's mineG/D-it, not yours, get the fuq out!

There isn't much I can do about it. The die is cast. Most of the land is owned or leased by hunters who've bought into the "raise a trophy of my very own" dogma.. You know back when I started I didn't know or even hear another hunter talk about B&C score or "let em go so they can grow". QDM wasn't even thought about. Nobody thought shooting a monster buck would make them a rock star or make their dick bigger. Folks just hunted for fun/recreation/meat and if they killed a big one fine but any legal buck was considered a good buck. In other words, they didn't place big value on inches of antler. That being the case, Bob didn't care if Chuck hunted on his land because Bob was hunting over on Dan's land. It was so much better and more fun for everybody that way. Nobody was stuck hunting the same old ground all the time. As for whether I have taken anyone hunting lately. I have been taking my young nephews the last couple years because their father works 70 hours a week and doesn't have the time. They are raring to go and I can't bear to see them sit home while the seasons pass them by. A kid with the fire in them aught to be able to hunt as much as they want.

We are not the big market we like to believe we are, as hunters and outdoorsman. There is a group out there that wants Ruger Americans, Savage Axis rifles etc. There is also the uber tactical group and it is obvious from the market that they are driving what is going on these days. Of all of us hunters out here, there just are not enough gun loonies to keep the market running with the stuff we like. The money is elsewhere.

Being conservative I probably have access on over 150k acres of posted private land and not once has the owner asked for a dime of my money or a second of my time for that access. What I do in labor or gifts is 100% to show my appreciation to them and typically they try to decline same though I insist.

You talk about the decrease in hunters in NY as well as brag about all the public land you have hunted and your success on same. So what have you done to bring new hunters into the fold in NY? Do you make it a habit to take new hunters out and show them public spots and help them learn to hunt?

My guess is you haven’t done so as that would decrease your odds of harvesting a good animal on these same lands. Not sharing your public spots with new guys due to an increased risk to your success rate but bitching about private owners locking up land is hypocritical of you!

You keep saying that land is getting locked up due to landowners wanting to manage for trophy quality. Sure in some places that absolutely happens but I doubt it’s that common nationwide. I can’t speak to NY as I have never hunted there but of the many farms in WA, OR, ID, WY and MT that I have gained access to over the years not 1 has been posted for trophy hunting opportunities. Rather ALL of them have been posted due to problems with so-called hunters when they allowed open access.

Driving in planted fields, cutting fences, shooting signs, shooting farming equipment, shooting livestock etc, the list goes on. Hunters as a whole have done a lousy job of maintaining their image and I don’t blame anyone who posts their land to avoid the shït show.

Here in WA land doesn’t have to be fenced or posted as private. it’s your responsibility as a hunter to know where you are and if it’s okay to be there and I’m 100% okay with that. It goes back to responsibility and accountability. If it isn’t public then you don’t belong there without permission.

Here is an idea, why don’t you tale some time to talk to some of the farmers that have denied you access in the past or that have posted land as to why they posted their land. Don’t go into it with any preconceived ideas, just listen to their reasons and then come back and tell us they are selfish. My guess is they have many valid reasons that have nothing to do with trophy hunting that 99% of hunters can sympathize with.

Mule Deer is right.

I sweat when I think how hunting is shifting downhill, with the ARFs (animal rights freaks) doing their thing to destroy conservation. But I'm glad to see the blacktical stuff. If the Second and the right to own guns was just based on "hunting," the fight would already be over and done with. That said, I wish people hunted more, or understood it better, because killing your supper is a fundamental part of our evolution as a species, important to who we are as human beings.

So, too, is fighting to defend your rights from those who would take them away.

I already have talked to shytloads of farmers and other landowners here as to why they post and won't allow access. I'm not going through it again for another retard who can't read and comprehend my previous posts. Man I get tired of the dumb sons of bitches here that can't take the time to thorough;y read before jumping on somebody for something. Never seen so much stupid gathered together in one place in my life.

BH, if you leave, most of the stupid will too, 'ya know?

You'd still be here so there'd still be plenty of stupid around.

Or we could get back to the original post.
I am not sure where the insults come from, this is simply a discussion.
Name calling is unnecessary.

Newsflash, Mallard Addict isn't the retard in this conversation. Nor any of the other 12 guys you've labeled as such.

If that were true I would'nt constantly be asked to repeat information already covered pages ago. Stick it in your ass smokes poles. You're a useless, mouthy idiot who knows nothing and has done nothing of any value to anyone in your pitiful little life and deep down you know it.

Fo'sheezie

Well this thread sure got hijacked to the highway to hell.... lol

Classic projection. I feel sorry for your husband.

Complacency always helps to solve problems..... it must be a rough life to be a cynical azzhole all the time.

I was a kid with the fire in me.... who grew up in a family that didn’t hunt. I rode my bike places, and asked landowners if I could hunt, and hunted what public land I could get to. A kid with a true passion, and a willingness to put in a little work... is an unstoppable force. Like I said earlier.... I’ve watched my kids, as recently as last fall, ask permission to hunt Private Land many times.... they’ve never been told no.

Hit the nail on the head. I'm willing to be ol' blackie has no mirrors in his house. I don't think I could stand it either.

Well then you don't need to wonder why hunter numbers are dwindling and why everybody else's land is posted and you're stuck hunting your same piece of ground all the time. Guys like you are the problem and there are tons of you. Like I said, look in the mirror.

Complete bullshyt. If you're as old as most of these guys on here you most likely had the good fortune to hunt many places before everybody was posting their property. I'm only 57 and I could walk out my dads back door and keep walking/hunting all day long without coming across a posted sign. I'd cross 4 or 5 property lines in a day and never be on ground I wasn't welcome on. This was in upstate NY. I don't believe for a minute it was terribly different except maybe in Texas and maybe a few other inhospitable Southern states. I know for a fact there was lots of unposted private land in the Northeast back then and it was common knowledge that if it wasn't posted it was ok to hunt. What are you doing to bring those posted signs down ? Yeah I thought so. I don't have much property of my own but there aren't any posted signs on it and if somebody wants to sit out here in my little patch of woods I don't kick them out so at least I practice what I preach. Same as 40 years ago when my grandfather told me I could put up signs on his farm if I wanted to and I never did. Funny thing is, I still took deer off that farm every year and never got shot or shot anyone else for lack of knowledge of who else was on the property. As for your other bullshyt about kids riding bikes to go hunting. Out here any kid seen riding a bike with a gun strapped across the handle bars these days would likely find themselves surrounded by a SWAT team in a NY minute. Probably a bad idea in a lot of other Eastern states as well and not many kids are fortunate enough to be able to walk out the back door and hunt all day like I did when I was a kid. It's a shame but those days are gone and reading the responses from the landowners/hunters here it's as obvious as the cum dripping off your chin what and who the problem is.

Classic projection. I feel sorry for your husband.

Read it again Blackheart..... I said I RODE MY BIKE TO HUNT....

That was back in the late 80’s..... but I still always asked permission to hunt.... I guess I’ve never felt like I was entitled to someone else’s stuff.

And everyone else here has the reading comprehension problem?

That was juice from antelope blackstrap dripping down my chin.... from one of the does my daughter shot, on private land, after she kindly asked the landowner if she could hunt on his 7800 acres.

You’ve gotta be the biggest asshat on this entire forum... and that’s saying something.

The decline in the number of hunters and access to land is only part of the problem. While hunters numbers have declined the number of shooters has increased. Thirty years ago most gun owners were hunters 1st who shot a little at the range to develop loads, get rifles zeroed and practice a little. Todays gun owners are far more likely to shoot at the range and if they hunt it is secondary. They put a LOT more rounds down range every year and most are better shots than typical hunters of yesteryear.

Smaller calibers, less recoil and better accuracy are more important than how well it kills. The tactical stuff works better for that. And those who do hunt are finding that the tactical gear can work very well. It is natural that they would prefer to hunt with the same gear they are most familiar with at the range.

Some older guys just can't wrap their heads around why the 6.5 CM is so popular. As a true hunting cartridge the 270 is a bit better. But if looking for a dual purpose target/hunting cartridge the 6.5 comes close enough to 270 hunting performance, but is a far better option as a target round.

He is truly a miserable, pathetic, puke.

blackheart: You and I have clashed on here a few times. Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, that's what makes the world go 'round. One thing I try to do and not always successfully is limit my comments to what's being said. That's hard to do with someone such as yourself who gravitates toward personal insults like the above. Sometimes I get caught up in that and respond.

Dogshooter has been asking you what you've done to help and your consistent answer is, "there's nothing I can do." You've got to know that's bullsh**. and a cop-out. Then you turn around and accuse other people of "doing nothing of any value to anyone;" and the like, and these are people you know zero about.

Sure seems like projection to me. And in response I'll say I haven't done enough, like most of us. But I have volunteered several hundred hours of my time to instruct our Hunter's Ed. class and help over 1,000 new hunters get their first hunting licenses. Lots of them were kids, and I'm not done yet. There are plenty of ways to pitch in.

If you really wanted to help, you would. Think about it.

I live in the prairie/timber openings part of the Midwest. In middle age, I finally got serious about squirrel hunting. While there is a number of acres of timber on our family farm, it would be nice to hunt some other patch of trees, just for a change of scenery. Asking around among neighboring land owners if I could hunt squirrels in their timber patches, I was often told: "Well, I let Joe hunt deer in their and he doesn't want anyone else tramping around in there, "or something similar. Too many deer hunters are completely crazy. Once they get permission to hunt a piece of ground, they get all possessive. Bow hunters are the worst, so far as I'm concerned.

Too many otherwise ethical and considerate hunters are making it hard for other hunters by being so possessive. Small game hunting is the entry into other kinds of hunting for many young folks, and these over-possessive deer hunters are part of the reason for a decline in hunting numbers. Just my opinion, FWIW.

Giving hunter ed courses isn't going to do anything for people who don't have a place to hunt. The courses we give at the sportsmens club here are always under attended in recent years. The last thing we need is more instructors. There is nothing I can do to bring the posted signs down other than lead by example, which I have done for over 4 decades. My time is spent more in the ongoing battle over gun rights here, as we're constantly under attack from the wacky liberal idiots in Albany.

The only land I "have" to pay to hunt is our club land. The dues covers land cost ins. Cost and a good share of our project money every year.

I have newvr been told I had to pay, provide gifts or work for the permission it's just something I and my friends do as a token of our appreciation to the land owners.

As I said most often we don't even ask to deer hunt. But almost always we get invited to deer hunt. Hell one farmer has let us put goose pits in his field and build blinds on his ponds... All because we showed up one Christmas with some cigars for him, a gift bag for his wife and some gifts for his kids. We gave those things to him as thanks for letting us goose hunt one of his fields one time. Instead of being a king douchebag with an industrial sized [bleep] shoved up your azz whining that all of these land owners owe you. Maybe you should try being just a touch benevolent...

LOL, the only guy on here who could take someone else's volunteer service, flip it around, and make it a negative. A Hearty Congratulations!

Out here we don't have enough instructors and most of the big game hunting is on public lands. Different problems, different solutions.

Have a nice day blackie.

Whether a person is a Tacttard, Tacticool, Tactifool, poser, legit ex-military, motivated prepper . . . whatever the preferences and reasons for them, for the most part, I don't care. I hope people are safe and responsible. I know gun owners who still vote "wrong headed", but I figure the more gun owners the better our chances at the ballot box. In addition, it would be great if people's public behavior didn't turn off those on the fence concerning guns.

I'm interested in lots of different guns, because I want to learn and stay relevant. I love my "nice" guns, but I own some straight up "tools" as well. If it ever comes to it, you'd like to have something that will shoot the ammo that will be most available and you'd like to at least know how to use a "pick up" gun if it comes to it.

Life is a lot easier if you don't judge what doesn't overly affect you.

Life is a WHOLE lot easier if you don't go around pissing on those who like to set themselves on fire....

I started this thread out of curiosity'...not poking the bear.
I still buy magazines and if it is full of tactical stuff I leave it on the rack.
It has infiltrated most publications, imo. I just happen to be a hunter and my firearms are designed for the variables of hunting.
It seems to me many these magazines are more directed towards the survivalist .
Maybe, this is where the hunting and shooting public is going.....I don't know.I do know I don't take the reading material home.
My point of view, folks

The good thing about the proliferation of tacticool is that should the time come when it's at play here in America it will be easy enough to start a collection at that time.

Got plenty of wood/blued beauties in the safes. But guess what when it comes time to hunt, in the safe is where they usually stay! My go to gun of late for deer has been a tikka 595 7-08 with a cerakoted barrel and action and the factory synthetic stock. Gun is accurate as all heck and its not a big deal wading through the brush with it or if the weather turns wet while hunting. As far as ARs i own 2....1 is set up as my primary coyote calling rig and the other is set up as a home defense option.