I'm considering a (obviously) used Winchester model 88 in .308 Winchester. What is your experience with their accuracy, reliability and overall strength?.....Can it be safely loaded to 65,000 Psi?....not that I want to do that but handloading can at times offer some surprises and I would not handload for a Savage 99 in the .308 Winchester so if one wants a lever gun in .308, it seems the Winchester 88 is the way to go.....?

I have had one since about1964 and loaded it with everything from 130 gr to 180 gr bullets , per loads listed in 2-3 different reloading manuals with no problems.

Accuracy wise,after I drifted the front screw lug on the barrel to the center of the stock barrel channel and did some bedding it will do better than an inch at 100 yards. The trigger is the bad part. Some have noted a few guys that do rigger work on them but I don't think it does a lot of good.

Reliability wise, I have never had problem with the firearm itself, but the ears on the magazines can get bent a bit and cause jamming.They can be fixed though.Extra magazines are hard to find and get pricey if you do.

Pre 64 had cut checkering 64 and past that have rolled/pressed oak leaf checkering.

If you buy it, PM me, I have an instruction article on bedding and accurizing

Or a Browning BLR.

vapodog,

Why wouldn't you handload for a Savage 99 .308?

I've fooled with some 88's and had one .308. My experience agrees with saddlesore's: With some work on the bedding they can shoot pretty well, but the triggers pretty much suck.

88's remind us of 100's and that's bad.

I have a Savage 99 and a BLR in 308. I did have a Winchester 88 in 308 but sold it because I prefer the Savage and the Browning. The 88 is alright except for the trigger which is not easily fixed from what I understand.

There are some people who work on BLR triggers but mine is OK as is. The Savage Trigger is simple to fix in my experience,any decent smith can handle it.

Had one in 243 and could never get decent groups out of it.

The 88 features the model 70 barrel.

I have had a few 88s and in all the calibers they came in. The triggers are bad, but can be made better. Not much better, but better. As I recall the Browning BLR trigger wasn't any better on the one I had.

All of mine have been accurate that I have shot. When I say accurate I don't mean hit a fly accurate, I mean 1"-1.5" consistently with handloads. My .284 Win consistently put 5 120g Nosler BT into .5"-.75". Not just once. but several times. 140g TSX into an inch. Same with the .243 I had. The .358 I have is a custom barrel and it has never gone over 1.5". I never shot the .308s I had, but with its reputation as a cartridge for accuracy I would believe it would be fine too.

When asking for Mule Deer's advice on loading the .358 he cautioned to load a grain under his suggested load since they were made up in a bolt action. I would think if one stayed with factory level loads there wouldn't be a problem in the .308, but those with more experience may tell you different.

Shot my first and biggest whitetail with a .308 M/88, Hornady 180 gr. RN loaded to conservative level. Accuracy was adequate for deer at woods ranges, mine was scoped with a Weaver K2.5 and as I didn't expect a target rifle-like trigger so it served my purposes rather well.

I got one for my sister back in the 80s when she was moving up to Alaska. It shot pretty well. Not MOA, but about 1-3/8" at 100 yards which was plenty good for moose and caribou. She and her kids have used it ever since, and it seem to do the job fine for them all. They have killed everything they ever hunted with that rifle and done it with shots from 20 to 350 yards. Never had a problem.

My nephew just came done to visit, and left my home yesterday. He told me they were almost out of ammo. The last time they all came down to Wyoming to visit I loaded them up 250 rounds of ammo for the 88 and all they shoot in it (so far) is my hand loads. (50) 180 grain Partitions for moose and (200) 165 grain Partitions for caribou and deer.

When I did the load work-ups my impression was #1 the rifle shot best with mid range loads (4895 and 4064 powders) and #2 although the bolt is strong enough for hot loads, high pressure is bad for the use of this rifle because the lever action has limited strength for it's primary extraction , and when the shells get a bit sticky from higher pressure, you have a hard time getting the lever to throw down easily. A slow lever action is a rifle devoid of one of it's most desirable traits.

So I say NO, don't use high pressure loads. Not because the gun would "blow up" but because it makes the lever action very un-handy and doesn't shoot as well.

Besides, the difference in a high pressure load and a standard pressure load in a 308 Winchester is non-existent in the game fields as far as the animals are concerned. I NEVER load a cartridge hot to get it to go faster. Some shoot best at high pressure, and those I'll load up, but not to get the speed. I do that because they shoot more accurately (as long as they are under a pressure that can cause problems)

My idea is simply this:
If I need more energy or killing effect,(by making a larger diameter or deeper wound in the game) I pick out a more powerful rifle.
I don't try to make a rifle more powerful than it already is.

Dad bought a new (1955 mfr) Model 88 in .308 in 1957.My oldest boy has it now as his boy is left handed and it will be his in time. I also used it for several years.

For the first forty years or so it was a 1.5-2.0 inch gun. The rear lug got loose on it and the stock cracked. I had it repaired and the recoil lug and an area around the front stock screw was bedded. This work really improved the accuracy. With most loads it is a consistent 1.5 in three shot group gun. With its favorite IMR-4064 load it often shoots better than one inch three shot groups.

I have loaded for it with 110, 150 and 165 grain bullets. When I worked up loads I usually ended up finding a load it liked at near max book loads. I have had no issues with it and case life is very good. My 99E Savage did have some issues and as others have suggested I reduced those loads. I have not needed small base dies either. I did need them when loading for a Model 100.

The trigger on our Model 88 is very good as compared to what I have heard about them. Dad had a local smith work on it.

The only reliability issue we have had was related to the magazine. The spring got weak. I replaced the factory spring and follower with one from a Washington firm, Wisner's. I believe the older Wisner was a Winchester rep whoended up buying some Winchester parts and tooling during one of the corporate changes. I also bought an extra magazine from him. They no longer list the spring and follower but still list the magazines for .308 based cartridges. They even have some with the original Winchester logo and arrow stamping. Pretty reasonabler at $50-60.00. I suspect they would still provide just the spring and follower if asked.

Hope this helps.
Gary

http://www.wisnersinc.com/model/winchester-models-88-100/

My friend has one and once he got it sighted in it does a good minute of critter job.

He mostly shoots 150 grain bullets in it but i have shot up to 180's with the same result.

I haven't hunted with my Winchester 88 in more years than I care to think about, but for a long time it was my go to deer rifle. I had a "pre 64" 88 and a "post 64" at the same time. I gave the pre 64 to my son and kept the post 64. It was always a little smoother to operate and they both shot good. The triggers always get a load of grief, but if you shoot the thing some they are easy to get used to. Mine always had a little catch just before it went off and was easy to shoot very well. I'm not going to claim that it was always a minute of angle rifle, but it would easily shoot between an inch and an inch and a half, with enough groups under an inch to keep it interesting. To me there isn't much to dislike about a Winchester 88.

The Browning has a straight grip stock and I have fused wrists due to effects of RA....it's a very poor fit for me.

I had two of them....one locked up tighter than a Bulls a$$ in fly time and I had to send it (loaded mind you) to Savage for repairs..the other was wiled to me by my father and I gave it to my brother as I had already learned that it won't tolerate even minor errors like a bolt rifle.....My brother is strictly a factory loaded hunter.....He loves the gun.

I am convinced to this day that the first M-99 froze up because I errantly used military brass for reloading....yes...my fault but I'm sure a bolt rifle would have survived the ordeal.

In those days I had horrible experience with anything Savage.....I will never buy another for ever!

I'm not a Savage 99 fan, but have handloaded for a 99 in .308 that my dad bought new around 1960. Shoots very well and is quite accurate with several bullets, but I'd never use a bolt-action max load in it. Brass life has been normal.

vapodog,

Very interesting, thanks for the report.

My very first "real" big game rifle was a Savage 99 .308, purchased used by my father for me, after he let me use his Marlin .30-30 to take my first deer. He took me down to one of the local sporting goods stores that had a great selection of used rifles, and said he'd buy anything up to $50 (which indicates how long ago this was). The 99 was $55 but he agreed anyway. It would shoot into about an inch with factory ammo, and I also handloaded for it with a Lee Loader, never having any problem with the "scooped" loads.

Have owned a BUNCH of other 99's since (and even one 1895), chambered in cartridges from .22 High Power to .358 Winchester, including a couple other .308's, along with some .300 Savages that I pushed a little, and a .284. Yeah, they'll extract kinda hard if you push 'em hard, but never had one totally lock up. Plus, I learned many years ago (from a home gunsmithing book by Jim Carmichel and Roy Dunlap) how to easily modify the trigger pull in pre-1960 99's to a very fine pull. As a result, after trying several Winchester 88's, I've never been all that attracted to them. Though of course Winchester addicts often are.

The only trouble I had with mine was when a LC military brass got mixed in with some Winchester and I missed it when reloading. That seized in the chamber and it took a little bit to work out. All my brass is now LC 69 match. I use 4064 powder and 165 gr Game Kings

If you want the best lever gun in 243 or 308 the Sako Finnwolf is what you should be looking for.

The stock ergs make the Finnwolf a better fit for me, but I will admit to having held onto 4 88s, all in 284, and around 300 99s.

I didn't have much luck reloading 99 s in the 308 caliber either.

The 300 savage is its own beast as in no other actions to share them with but 99 s had better luck!

The BLR does come in pistol grips, Neil smith gunsmith from PA can do blr triggers nice! He claims he can work 88 s also. But the 88 trigger seems an easier beach 2 get used 2 compared to the BLR. So I have never sent Neil an 88.

M D

I don’t know what the difference is but I’ve had S 99s in 243 & 358 W.
I didn’t have any problems running full throttle loads ESPECIALLY in the
358.

I’ve read a few times about 99s having weak extraction. Maybe some ? I don’t know
but my 358 W didn’t suffer that.

I’d have to check my records but I ran Speer 180 F P and Hornady 200 SP at book velocities.

Jerry

The gun my father had was purchased in IIRC 1958....and he was foced to carry a wooden ramrod with him to extract empties......due to poor extractors.....When I got the gun, I replacrd the extractor in it which solved that problem..BTW....to this day that gun has not fired 100 rounds.....it's actually better than the day it was purchased new.

So let me tell the story about how I got mine....again a Model 99 in .308 Winchester.....I all started in 1965 or there abouts.....I proudly purchased a Savage/Fox deluxe 12 guage side by side.....vent rib, ejectors....the works.....I was one proud lad. Sadly the right barrel refused to eject the empties and the problem was obvious.....there was a heavy burr in the chamber rim that wedged the case tightly to the chamber wall......So I returned the gun to Savage for repairs.....weeks later I got the gun back and promptly went to the gravel pit to have some fun. However now the right barrel refused to fire the round...repeatedly it was bang.....click.....bang..... click.....so again I returned it to Savage. Again weeks later I got it back and again took it for an outing.....It fired both barrels this time....and did so beautifully.....except it also fired both barrels with the safety on.....this created some gnashing of teeth but my patience was holding firmly.....so again the gun was returned to Savage. and again weeks later I got it back......and again out for some shootng. WOW....it ejected fine....fired both barrels fine, and the safety worked as it should.....and then the sickening sound of "BOING".....the vent rib came off.

Once again I returned the gun to Savage with (as politely I could) and demanded they either refund the retail purchase price or I would be satisfied if they sent me a Model 99 in .308 chamvering......well weeks later here it comes.....my new Savage model 99 deer rifle. I hunted with it for a few years until it locked up on me and once again I was forced to return it to Savage.....weeks later I got the gun back and promptly traded it off.....never again to see a Savage firearm enter my house.

I have chased a somewhat similar route with both Weatherby ad Ruger.....but not so extensive as my patience won't allow a third strike. Needless to say, there are no Weatherbys or Rugers in this house either. I've had no issues with my Model 70 rifles.....my M-98 guns, My Sako L-461, CZ my older Remingtons, SKB shotguns, Mossbergs, and one fine Howa.....I'll buy Brownings too....pretty good stuff.

vapo

I don't know what year my 99, 358 was made but it had the Brass cocking indicator, Brass mag rotor, & Brass cartridge counter indicator.
I had it for several years and killed quite a few WT with it. I experimented with the bullets I was interested in hunting -- Speer 180 F P
& 200 HSP.

I was getting the top listed manual velocities for the 358..... so I don't know what to tell you.


I also had BLRs in 243 & 308 and again NO extraction problems. ? ? ? ?

Maybe diff year manufacturer? different C/C? ? ?


Jerry

I did check that out and, of course, you are absolutely right.....and in some fairly strong chamberings to boot. I'm not enamored with their general appearance, but will give it strong consideration

My goodness, there is an incredible amount of wisdom in this post. WOW.

Steve

For those wishing for more complete info on the Model 88, Her is good web site to get it .

https://www.leeroysramblings.com/Gun%20Articles/winchester_model_88_100_info.html

I would like to try the 88 in a 284 win.
I believe it is front locking, the action should be strong enough and durable .
I am a levergun guy and stay clear of rear locking bottleneck rounds in a lever action rifles for my hunting - many will disagree.
A model 88 would be a great project and I am sure a guy would mess with the bedding and the trigger but it appears as functional as my BLR's.
It is a pretty thing, imo.Cheers

Even bottleneck cartridges like the 25-35, 25-36, 7-30 WATERS, 30-30, 32 WS, 33 WIN, 348 WIN, and 35 REM that have been chambered in Marlin and Winchester rear locking lever actions for over 100 years?

I would concider the 88 strong enough... I have 4 of them myself 2 in 308 an284 and 243... All will shoot as well as your advrage bolt gun..the 243 however is amazingly accurate...it will never shoot outside a quarter inch...as someone else said triggers are there downfall if you need a really light trigger...they take some discipline...on the bench you need to learn a technique of putting about 4 lbs of pressure on the trigger then breaking the last lb when ready....it's actually very effective...some just can do it and I understand ...the 88 won't be for them..

I have had Sakos BLRs,Model 88s.To me the 88s were clunky and just not a handy rifle.I liked the BLRs which all shot stupid accurate.The Sako was smooth but not super accurate.I recently purchased a Henry Long Ranger in 308 .This LVR has no iron sights and the comb of the stock is very high making it perfect for a scope.The lever is a short throw.Very smooth and ejects with vigor.The trigger from the factory is 2 pounds 12 ounces.My best group so far is 1 1/2 " at 100 yards.I have only shot 15 rounds through it so think it will do much better when I find out what it likes.

Have owned several 88,s 2 in 284 and 1 in 308. All Pre 64 and the 308 was a cloverleaf tang.

One of the 284 Win model 88,s I hunted with it a lot up here, shot a 52" Bull moose and a Dall Ram with it, solo hunt quite an adventure. For a left-handed guy it handled and shot well and you could reverse the safety.

Had the old Warne style detachable scope mounts made by Kimber with a good older 4 x Leupold on it.

when i got to start deer hunting at age 10 or 11 my father purchased for me a new Winchester 30-30 and this rifle was not that accurate but its all i had,one of the guys we hunted with had a Winchester 88 308 ,neither his rifle or my 30-30 were that accurate so for many years i never thought much about lever action rifles anymore. but when i moved backed to my home town family area a great old World War 2 Vet. family friend come over on a sight-in day on my range. Old Benny had a old Savage 99 308 with a old 4x Weaver scope and flip off mounts, handed me 5- 308 cartridges and not all 5 were the same and the bullets were not perfect either. he was 75 years old and was kinda crippled and ask me would you check my rifle and see if it still hits ok for deer hunt`n next weekend. so i got his old killer rifle ready and bench shot this old Savage 99 at 100 yards and hope i could hit the target someplace ? well i got one hell of a surprise that old 99 with that old weaver 4x shot in the 1 1/4 inch bullseye all 5 times , old Benny said that`s good enough and put the rifle away,said thank you and went home ! i was in a state of shock with how accurate this old 99 was i could not believe it and went that many years without any levers,so i purchased a Savage 99 and yep that one shot well too. then i tried some Winchester levers not very accurate ,Marlins levers were better , but those 99`s all shot so much better. then i got another surprise about 6 years ago i purchased Browning BLR 308 and was shock again how accurate this type of lever action is ! the one lever i wish Browning would build is a S.S. BLR in a 338 Win.Mag. if i was asked this question :would i buy Winchesters ? yes for collection purchases but not to hunt with, i have a soft spot for Ruger #1`s,Savage 99`s and Browning BLR`s forever they are much more accurate.hope you all have a great - safe fall hunt it`s almost time ! Pete53

A friend had a 88 trigger cleaned up by Neil that worked much better, personally I had a new BLR in .358 win that was terrible, local Browning service center worked on it then it would miss fire every 3 or 4 rounds, sent it back to the factory for service. Browning called and said it was repaired but then it got lost in their shipping department for 7 more weeks! When I finally got it back it had no more miss fires but a freaking 8 lb pull!

Sent it to Neil and had it back in 2 weeks, he stated he could only get it to 4 lbs BUT it had a smooth no creep pull and shot so much better.

I can't imagine anyone trying to kill anything with a Savage lever action. The model 88 is far superior in all regards.

<sarcasm font off>

My experiences echo those all ready stated here. Not very impressive accuracy, and heavy triggers. That and I'm a 99 guy too. I hunted with it for one season and sent it down the road.

Vapodog,
I'm late to the party, but can share my experience. I've had a pre-64 for about 20 years now. I'm very pleased with the gun and wouldn't think of getting rid of it. I've had some trigger work done on it, and it helped (a little). The barrel was re-bedded and I've fiddled with the forend screw, too (mine shoots best with the screw pretty tight). Handloads with Varget or 4064 and Hornady 165-gr. BTSP usually give me accuracy between 1" and 1.5". Same with 150-gr and 168-gr NBT's.
I've taken deer, pigs, elk, and moose with the gun.

I got mine about 1967. It was designed to shoot the .308 Win., so it should be safe to whatever the .308 chamber pressures are, which I think ar3 crowding 65K. I started handloading for mine almost immediately, was not timid with the loading......and it had no apparent pressure problems. As for accuracy,I had a couple of loads that would give sub- moa, 5 shot groups. The trigger pull leaves a lot to be desired, and mine had bad forend warpage, which gave me seasonal issues.....summer to winter! I loved the little rifle, and recently gave it to my son! memtb

Makes good boat anchor if you tie a cinder block to it!!

[I have the latter model 88 . Firing with a snap cap before live ammo considerably improves the trigger. There is minor creep but the release is very smooth and not at all heavy. David

I ran some match ammo through my 308 88 for fun one day. Holy cow, now if I could get my hunting loads to shoot that well I'd be set!