What do you consider the best, most precise reloading dies out there today. I have several brands and a couple of lemons amongst them. More precisely, your opinions on standard full length, neck sizing, and seating dies for mainstream cartridges, please. Thanks in advance!

For accuracy reloading Redding bushing full length dies are good for sizing and Wilson inline seating dies are good for seating. Lee collet dies are decent.

What, why and how do you consider a particular brand reloading die a lemon?

I have and use: Redding, Lee, Lyman, RCBS & CH-4D equally with no issues. Also use a set of Neil Jones dies with my 22/250 with no issues either.

I think most people blame the dies when it is the shooter or their reloading set-up is at fault.

Jesus fellow, are you after a reply or a damned article?

I have Redding and RCBS

Me too

I like Redding stuff and that is what I purchase when I need a new set. I have, and use RCBS and Lyman, in certain calibers. They have been entirely satisfactory.

I greatly prefer Forster dies. IDK if they're the "best" or not, but I enjoy how the setup and work.

I get a kick out of the Lee collet die I have for my 220 Swift.



Its like a 200 dollar rez pony beating a 20,000 horse round the barrels.

Those collet dies are slick. I do use them on occasion as well.

Whatever you’d like to contribute 😂😂😂.

If you know nothing, just say so. Are you related to Steelhead?

If you haven't figured out what you like by now then soliciting the opinions of complete strangers isn't going to assist you.

And for what it is worth I get along just fine with Steelhead, mainly because he thinks for himself and isn't prone to being a whinging bitch.

I have C&H dies that work great and some say they aren’t any good..

Kirk,

Same here--along with Forster, Hornady, Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Redding and some others I'm probably forgetting. They all can make very good ammo IF you understand how they work, and set them up accordingly.

Probably the most foolproof, least-hassle press dies I've ever used have been Forster Benchrest. But they they cost more than the average reloader wants to pay.

I needed to buy a couple different dies for two rifles I bought. I wasn’t sure I’d keep either rig very long, so I didn’t go with $145 dollar Redding, preferring $30 dollar a set Lee dies.

Taking both apart I found a small metal bur inside one seating die that required polishing out. They’ve held up for 640 rounds thus far.

😎

On the cheap, I’ve been impressed with Hornady’s Match sets.

These have become my go to dies now. They’re pricey but not ridiculously pricey, they’re worth it to me.

I use just about anyones FL die with a preference for Redding Type S FL Bushing dies, but only use them for multiples on the same case. I've gone to Hornady Seating dies with the sliding sleeve for almost everything I load. I believe I have 8 Lee 4 hole turret head set up, some with two different cartridges/head. Plus another large single stage press.

Coming from a guy that, I’ll bet has sent big snivler numerous pm’s for “advice “....

🤣🤣

I've had nothing but good results from Lee.

Agree
Jim

Lee, Lee, Lee and Lee.

Lee for me, with the occasional Redding body die.

I’ve got about everything on the shelf, but most of my die boxes are a mix.

This trio is probably my favorite. Forster comp seater, Lee collet and a Redding body . Tough to beat for my needs.

roundoak,

Yeah, I had some Herter's dies as well. Heard years later they were RCBS seconds, but dunno if that was true. But had really suck luck with one set of .243 dies.

Do know that for a while in the 1970's, RCBS was saving money by reaming sizing-die bodies first, for cartridges based on the same basic case, such as .308 or .30-06. Then they'd ream the necks later, depending on how many order they got for particular cartridges.

I know this because I bought two sets of RCBS dies in the 1970's that had the necks of the full-length sizers measurably out of alignment with the body of the die. This was proven by taken once-fired brass, which measured pretty much absolutely straight, then running it through the FL sizer with a expander, decapper rod removed. This pissed me off, since one of the dies was a "custom" set of .338-06 dies, which I spent quite a bit of money on while still in college. They corrected that production mistake a few years later.

When I first started reloading in the 70's I bought a set of Herters Worlds Best 30-06 dies . I got a manual and loaded a dozen or so before I pushed a bullet down into the case with my thumb and it fell inside.
I went to visit the town's reloading guru and he pointed out that the expanding ball was too big. After he helped me turn it down with some sandpaper to the correct diameter for the 308 bullets, I started using those dies for many years-----until I went big time with RCBS and Redding.
I think the quality of the cheap reloading presses floating around we responsible for a lot of the die troubles.

Ken

for the average Joe.......

Forster or Redding

Lee offers some good choices too

I'm same way.....mix & match......

Forster......Redding......Lee

they all have good options.....

Lee is good......but

The Redding bushing dies FL or neck are great...

for example...necking down a 222 to 20/222

or a 223 to 20 Practical

221 FB to 20 Vartarg

all super p/dog cartridges

A lot of it depends on how much nit-picky stuff he wants to get involved in.

I do a lot of mixing/matching dies myself, but most just want to buy dies and start loading.

I've used them all, including less common ones like Neil Jones, Wilson, and R.F. Wells. Everyone make good dies most of the time, or that's been my experience since the mid-'60s.

What JG said.

You can spend more, but this combo will produce some of the most concentric ammo possible.

I like the Deluxe Lee set which comes with 4 dies, neck sizer, FL sizer, seater and factory crimp die. Not a fan of their FL sizer; it makes a great body die by grinding out the die neck to clear the case neck. Cheaper than buying a Redding body die.

Now, my favorite seater is the Forester with floating bullet guide. Have Wilson seaters with arbor press for some rounds. I check and correct run out, certain rounds, not all.

Saw your post after posting mine.

Exactly what I was saying.

I like your powder choices, too.

DF

I use a set of Bonanza Match Dies for my 222 Rem. They came with the rifle when I traded for it.

Are there many Bonanza dies around anymore? They have that floating bullet guide that pinches my fingers if I don't watch it!

Ken

I continue to check for runout, but since using Lee Collet dies the TruAngle tool sees little or no use.

Most of my dies are Lee. That said, most of what I buy are Redding.

roundoak,

At least as much depends on brass quality as dies.

Bought my first set of Redding dies in 1991, partly due to the recommendation of a custom riflemaker, a standard FL/seater set for the 7mm Remington Magnum. Have been using them a lot for around 6 weeks, due to an upcoming article on new powders and bullets for that cartridge. Very few of the loaded rounds have exceeded .002 in bullet run-out, due to the consistent dimensions (especially neck-thickness) of the brass used. Which is FAR more common these days than it was back when I bought the dies.....

For bottleneck rifle I use RCBS and Redding sizing dies and my seaters are Hornady. Handgun dies are Hornady, I altered the expander to a powder thru design and mounted an RCBS Little Dandy measure to it.

I like the quality of Redding.
10 seconds with them, and you can tell they machine with pride.
Never had any bushing dies, just standard and neck sizer.

Hornady New Dimension's have been nice, until I broke a depriming stem.
Had to call them and order it, none around here. A bit expensive, i bought 2.

RCBS, is the standard to me.

Lee, honestly I would judge them as junk on first appearance. And I did.
But, since I had bought them, I used them and they work fine.
Got a collet with my 6.5 Sweede , I have a hard time trusting the collet
to size enough. It left me with some loose bullets once, I guess I should measure
neck diameter after sizing. Just to check.

Lyman, similar to RCBS, seem a step behind, dont know why.

After measuring stupid low runout using a dial caliper and runout gauge, I’ll continue to buy Forster.

A fella doesn't need dies for a flinter.

I like all I have tried.


So far that has been Lyman, Lee, RCBS, Hornady and Redding.

My wildest excess has been with Lee dies.


Being lazy, I decided to buy a set of dies to load 44 special.

I already had a nice set of carbide RCBS dies for my 44 Magnum.

With LEE being cheep and cheerful.......I sprang for a set so I would not have to mess around with anything.



They even send the little ring with the RCBS dies so you dont have to re adjust..........

Yes, they are called Forsters now.

I've got a question for y'all that have answered this thread so far.

Of the dies you haven't picked as the best, are there any dies you'd tell a fellow to stay away from?

I've got mostly RCBS and Redding, but I've been buying more Lee dies lately.

To answer my own question, the only dies I'd say to avoid are RCBS X-Dies. I bought a set in 30-06, and kept having the sizing die break. RCBS was really nice about replacing the expander assembly, but I finally tired of the drama and bought a regular RCBS sizing die and not had trouble since. I have an X-Die version in 30-30, and it has kept working flawlessly, so I think the problem lies in the shaft that holds the expander. If it is too long, it is too weak to handle the stress.

Lee Collett die
Redding body die
Forster seating die

That's the "best" of each as I see it.

On the cheap, I buy the Lee four die set and call it good usually.

+1

DF

That is funny and so true.

Even cheaper: get a 4 die Deluxe Lee set, grind out the neck of the FL die to make a body die. Have posted this picture several times. Works so well, I'll post it again, saves the cost of a Redding body die.

The Lee seater isn't the best, but works OK. Adding a Forster seater will seal the deal, IMO.

Most buzz for the buck, for sure. Spending a lot more doesn't assure more performance.

And, I do check run out with a Sinclair tool, correct as need with a TruAngle tool. Set up like this, no need to screw it to the bench. This is a lot handier, IMO. Works just as well and you can put it away when not in use. Doesn't clutter up the bench, get in the way.

DF

Had a similar experience with a couple sets of RCBS dies purchased in the early '80s. They made me a big fan of everyone else's dies since I figured out why I couldn't hit a barn door with ammo loaded with them.

I blamed the drop in RCBS QC on the flurry of companies being sold to one another in the late 1970s. Blount, Speer, RCBS, Outers, etc. It seemed there was a sale or amalgamation every six months.

I've got several sets exactly like that.

Did you hit the barn door with your flinter?

Warner Tool Co.have served me well.

Never tried. Tell you what.....step out about 100 yards and point to which ear you want pierced.

A number of my RCBS dies were made back when their QC wasn't exactly stellar. I transitioned over to Redding and have not looked back.

Got a little oof everything. Pacific, Herters, CH are some of the older ones. Redding is most likely the finest I have. I like Lee for handgun with their powder thru expander dies. Ease of mounting powder measure. With around 50 sets I have a lot of mix and match like the rest of you. The things that work best. Setting them up right has helped greatly of course. And switching to a decapper and running the exxpander ball way high has given very straight ammo. Thanks Johnny B.

The only dies I have had issues with were 1970 era RCBS. They promptly sent me a new one but I never knew what the problem was until I read about the separate reaming operations from John Barsenes. Other than that all have worked but some are machined nicer than others. If I had an unlimited budget it would be all Wilson, Whidden and Harrell dies, but since I don't, I mix and match and I like Lee because I can modify them without worrying about screwing them up. Now I get the three or four die set and re-ream the seater with the chamber reamer and hone the sizer or convert it to a bump die. Like others I usually add a Forster seater at some point.

The other RCBS issue I had was operator error but I don't like the crimp feature, if the dies are set wrong it gets in the way or if some brass is longer it will create issue (yes I know trim more often). But when the crimp is too low it buckles the necks even when used properly if the champfer is not good it can buckle or induce run out. I have been meaning to take out the crimper of my RCBS dies but have not gotten around to it especially since I now take more care to not set the die too low.

I seldom use the crimp on seating dies. I have Lee Factory Crimp Dies for all the cartridges that I reload. I have a mix of Lee, Redding, and RCBS sets. The only one I have had issues with is the Lee Collet Die for .30-06. It just won’t neck size adequately to hold most bullets even finger push tight. I should just send it back I suppose. Thanks for your replies. Happy Trails

What's the diameter of the mandrel?

OK 'Davy', whilst standing there whistling Dixie.

Best is so damn subjective. I'm content with RCBS. I get sub .003" TIR and all is good, plus the average reloader can afford them and they are sold damn near everywhere. All of my local fun stores carry them. The only thing I do to upgrade them is pull the chit they call lock ring off and replace them with the Hornady lock ring. Works like a champ and you don't have to worry about stripping the hold down screw....

MM, never took it apart to check

Could be the mandrel is a bit fat. As much as I like Lee collet sizers they don't always come perfect.

It's possible that the mandrel is oversized. If that is the case,you can get a smaller (undersized) mandrel. The std mandrel should mic at 0.3055 inches. An undersized one mics at 0.3035 inches. They are available from Lee for $5.

Before you worry too much about a replacement, take it apart first. Check between the four fingers of the collet for metal bits. When they machine the parts, small metal shards can stay inside, preventing the collet from closing completely. This picture is a crimp die, but like the collet die, both have four fingers that come together to apply pressure to the case neck. You can see a metal shard that prevented the collet from closing properly.

I got one with a .257" mandrel. It didn't do that well for .257" bullets.

For large cartridges I have had good results with CH4D and RCBS, and LEE factory crimp dies, even if on custom order.

For smaller cartridges after a few issues and poor service here in Aus I would only pick Forster or maybe RCBS.

Lot to be learned from Rosco1

Here is a partial sample of the bushings for the many bushing dies I have. Collet sizers less expensive and very often produce less run out than an S sizing die. You need to play with an S Die and see if you get more or less run out with an expander ball. Often, running and expander mandrel though the neck straightens the neck out. Lee sells other mandrel sizes for around $3,and you can get .0005 size mandrels from Grainger. Mandrels are available in .0001 graduations.

I like around .001 or less run out, and often this means neck turning.

[/URL]

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Often, cartridges like more/less grip on a bullet, thus a smaller mandrel or bushing, and mandrels are less expensive. Changing bushings or mandrels can be like throwing on a light switch when it comes to accuracy.

You can certainly make this as complicated as you want. A standard sizer with a dry expander ball kinking your necks out of alignment .006 or more is probably not going to give you little tiny groups, but I have seen some amazing groups shot with crap for quality dies with good barrels put on by good gunsmiths.

I'm not quite sure what's up with Lee's collet die mandrels lately. Most I've gotten in the last couple of years have been too big and I've had to turn them down. The collet dies I bought years ago never seemed to have that problem.

Fortunately fixing the mandrel diameter on a collet die is very easy. Just take the die apart and chuck the mandrel in a cordless drill. I take some 400 grit sandpaper with a drop of oil wrapped around the mandrel where it sizes the neck and spin it for about 30 seconds then mic it to see how much it's been reduced. Repeat until I take .001" off then size a case with it and seat a bullet, if it's still too loose I take another .001" off. I can adjust the neck tension to where I want in about 10 minutes and it doesn't cost anything. Yeah, you shouldn't have to do it but the collet dies are too good of a design to discard over something that can be fixed so easily.

BTW, Mathman has written the best instructions on setting up and using the Lee collet neck sizer, way better than Lee’s attempt.

Do a search.

DF

I've been setting them up for years with that method. It doesn't matter how you set them up if the mandrel is too big, it can only size the neck as small as the mandrel will allow.

True.

Too easy to fix to be a problem.

DF

Most of my die sets look exactly like this. IMO it's a hard combo to beat.


Trystan

Trystan, Post some pics of your set up when you get time. I use RCBS or Redding (preferably) but I'm always willing to learn a better set up. Thanks in advance!

I'll 2nd that for FL sizing & seating.................been using them since they were "Bonanza Dies".

And they make accurate ammo if you know what you are doing.

The only time I might buy something else is for a specialty die need like a Lee collet neck sizer.

MM

IMO Forster dies are the best for the money.

If you like good and easy, just by a set of Forster dies and rock on.

Forster custom shop will open up the neck dia to your specifications for $12. Unbelievably little run out is the result. I know of a Bullet tester for Berger and 1000 yd match winner that uses this system of having Forster open up necks to the dia he likes. He looks for run out .0001-.0002 on loaded rounds.

Forster and Redding also sell the sleeves for the benchrest seaters that are blanks,gunsmtih can chamber those sleves. The forsters that I have reamed cut like butter.

Forster benchrest seater, lee collet die with various sizes of mandrels, and Redding body is going to be a hard combo to beat.

If you are shooting some longer ranges, verifying your run out with A particular pattern of reloading is a priceless part of your own QC.

I have found presses, shell holders-twice, and a host of sizing dies that went in the scrap bucket.

Whidden dies, Harrells dies are top grade custom dies that do not break the bank, however calibers are limited.

For a guy just wanting a standard set of dies, the Forster set with a neck sizer is going to be tough to beat. Few understand how the expander ball is pulled though the neck while a portion of the neck is still supported in the neck part of the die. This supported neck while the expander ball comes through the neck keeps the neck from being kinked out of alignment.

Also, using a very slight trace amount of water base lube in the neck, Lee Sizing wax will allow the expander ball to come through the neck with the slightest ease. Also, the water base lube does not contaminate the powder and cause powder to stick when you dump the powder in. The use of the lube in the neck in conjunction with the Forster dies pay big dividends in getting run out to .002 and less with LITTLE EFFORT. Remember, a trace amount on a Q tip is all that is needed. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/482023/lee-case-sizing-lube-2-oz-tube

Another method would be, Black Graphite used on the inside of case necks applied with this tool has produced great results:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/301357/forster-original-case-neck-lubricator

Using a brush to clean the insides of your necks uniforms the seating pressure needed. Necks that are full of carbon take a lot more pressure to seat bullets.

In summary, if you wanted simple life on the die purchases, then go Forster, and if your caliber is not available, then go Redding Deluxe three die set.
Then brush your neck, lube with lee sizing wax, you will have some very uniform ammo.

NOTE: standard Forster neck sizers can be used as "shoulder bump dies" because they have the cartridge shoulder angle cut in them, no other standard production die maker does this. More often than not, the shoulders need to be bumped back instead of the web being sized down.

Wash, rinse, repeat for me, at least when my goal is to make decent ammo at some semblance of speed. For fun reloading I tend to grab the old Lee "whump" dies. Making ammo with a rubber mallet serves to amuse me.

[/quote]
Wash, rinse, repeat for me, at least when my goal is to make decent ammo at some semblance of speed. For fun reloading I tend to grab the old Lee "whump" dies. Making ammo with a rubber mallet serves to amuse me.[/quote]

They also can produce excellent accuracy. Not the same as Wilson arbor dies but the same in line process with the case captured at each step so it stays straighter if it started out that way or may even straighten the case out during the wack a mole process.

I am particularly fond of the Forster Competition seating dies for loading long bullets way out into the throat.

Redding is mostly what I use. RCBS second. Plenty good for my needs.

Sort of like the scope?

I really like Forster but most of mine are RCBS. You can't beat the price and they do a reasonably good job. I also have one Redding and one Lyman die. But I can't tell the difference in any of them except the Forster. Especially the seating die. It's hard to beat. It's for my .280 Remington which I have some really long VLD bullets for and it seats them with absolutely no issues and the rounds turn out very accurate if I do my part.

I agree completely with all the above. The only difference is I use Motor Mica as a dry lube as I always heard graphite can attract moisture. Not really a problem and many older powders at least are coated with graphite to keep it from clumping. The Forster seater cut with the chamber reamer would be a top choice. I never bothered to get sizer reamers as usually a honing can get the die to where they should be. Many factory dies have SAAMI minimum neck diameters and over work the brass depending on how it matches the chamber. I neck size a twice fired case and cover it with valve grinding compound and chuck it in a drill to hone the sizer die. If you don't get carried away the base usually does not need to be squared off or shortened. Motor mica can be found a Ballistics Research or Amazon.

Wash, rinse, repeat for me, at least when my goal is to make decent ammo at some semblance of speed. For fun reloading I tend to grab the old Lee "whump" dies. Making ammo with a rubber mallet serves to amuse me.[/quote]

They also can produce excellent accuracy. Not the same as Wilson arbor dies but the same in line process with the case captured at each step so it stays straighter if it started out that way or may even straighten the case out during the wack a mole process.
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_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Some of the best ammo I've ever made was with the Lee "Whump dies" as you call them. My old Post 63 Model 70 .270 Winchester ( made in 1966 the year I bought it new) would shoot 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups with factory Remington Core Lokt 130 grain ammo 1"-1 1/2" with a 130 grain SGK and 56.7 grains IMR 4831. When I bought a Lee Zero Error "Whump Die" and I perfected the loading (This was before I bought an RCBS press and started reloading seriously) it brought the group size down to 5/8s" to 3/4" at 100 yards. Of course that was the Lee Zero Error Die which had a micrometer on the body to adjust seating depth. But I had A couple other regular "Whump Dies" in other chamberings that gave similar results. They were all more serious reloading tools than I had thought when I bought them. I won several local Bench Rest shoots with rounds loaded in them.

Remember this was a totally factory post 63 Model 70 with a stock 22" pencil thin sporter barrel. The only things done to it to accurize it were to bed it and lighten the trigger to 2 pounds. The stock was and still is the wooden Monte Carlo stock that came on it. Composite stocks were yet available.

x2 .... I use the Lee Collet and Forster BR Seating dies.

Only have the Redding body die in 243 but no 243. Should buy a few more for my other rifles and try them.

If you got a die and no rifle for it, you need a new rifle just for that die.

DF

On this we can agree.

As well as the dies, I have an action, stock, and brass so bbl is incoming as we speak. Can't leave all that kit unused.

Thanks for that idea. Have a few unused Lee FL dies here that will get that treatment.

Those dies are pretty hard, and it will take some grinding to relieve the neck.

This one is .22-250. I had to find a worn grinding bit to fit in the small .22 cal neck.

Sometimes improvising works out really well...

DF

I like Forster. They build in some float/flex in the decapping/expander-ball spindle. Their bushing bump dies are fantastic as well. I like the full-length sleeve in their seating dies too.

If I can't get a Forster sizer I want I'll often opt for a Redding FL Bushing die. Run the FL die in shallow to neck size and re-set for full-length sizing when required.

PM sent

I own over 300 store bought dies that I track with a spread sheet with this data field

bullet diameter, cartridge, Brand, function, embossment, neck, die material, orifice, taper length, opening, expander 1, expander 2,

I have made a lot of homemade dies.

I have been designing tests since I a little kid, but first got paid by Boeing for writing a test for the public address amplifier for the 767 in 1979.

1) A few years ago I designed a die test. I bought every brand of 223 dies and randomly selected populations of brass to stay with a die over many firings.

I was measuring concentricity of ammo and case length growth.

I went into it thinking my most expensive and fancy to look at die was the best. The one I had previously used the most.... Redding FL with neck bushing.

That die finished in last place.
First place went to an ugly old die on my junk pile... The Lee collet neck die.

2) I have tested seater dies for concentricity starting ~ 2001.
The best was Forster sliding sleeve dies, still on patent in 2001.
But the difference at the range between shooting ammo from a generic RCBS seater and Forster sliding sleeve in terms of accuracy was down in the noise compared to how a) bent necks get when being sized and b) neck thickness run out.

Looking forward, what do I do with each new cartridge?
1) Rifle
a) Get a Forser FL die honed out neck to my specification at the factory.
b) Get a Forster seater die and I deburr the deburr on the seater stem mouth
c) Get a Lee Collet die and if needed with the mandrel cut to my specification at the factory
d) Remove decaping pin / sizer ball stem from sizer die and use Lee decapping die instead

2) Pistol
a) Get a Lee carbide set with factory crimp die

What is that picture all about?
Making a big game gun BB gun silent without a silencer involved me making a high expansion ratio 50 caliber wildcat that seals the gas with less than one atmosphere above ambient of escapement gas pressure at the muzzle. The bullet is formed in the case over powder with a homemade die. Made you look.

Clark, that is some great advise.

Few will understand the depth of the advise on the Lee Collet sizer, with the ability to get .0005 mandrels for cheap money. Run out with the collet sizer is remarkable.

I will add that the standard forster neck sizer will bump shoulders and often eliminate the need for full length sizing(over working the case).

Clark,

Were you using the Redding bushing dies with the expander ball, as their directions suggest?

The reason I ask is my experience is they work great--as long as you don't use the expander ball.

Very interesting!

Have had 7 Lee collet dies, I always prep my brass by a bump die or a FL bushing die with an over sized bushing. Never have seen any more than great run out and very consistent tension

Why bushing dies even come with an expander ball is beyond me.

I would like to know in what way the Redding bushing die came in last place as that was a bit surprising to me, though I am open minded enouph to listen


Trystan

Very Interesting.

I’ve had RCBS, Lyman, C & H, Redding, & Lee.
All of them worked very well. For NO particular reason or design — ALL my dies NOW are RCBS & 1 set of Lee.


? Maybe ? I don’t understand the Lee sizing die.....
It has some “wiggle” or “wobble” that I don’t like.

*** Keith & Clark M ***. I don’t know y’all personally so
don’t take this as a personal attack nor insult.

If I had to do ALL y’all have described, I would
16bore—> OUT of handloading. and go factory.

Jerry

No, no expander balls were used in the experiment, as professor Toby Bradshaw said in 1994 (no expander ball used, *ever*).
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/rec.guns/y0e-GlQPkR4

I can remember some later experiments with bushings, and the less they reduced the neck, the less error they introduced.

jwall, you can make this stuff as complicated as you want, it is a hobby.

The lee dies has fingers that crimp the case neck against a mandrel. Change the mandrel size this replaces bushings in S Redding dies. ON the S dies, often, the expander ball will help or hurt neck sized alignment...trial and error.'

Best money spent is on a good gunsmtih and a high quality barrel, does away with a lot of the drama in keeping and finding a load.

Count me among those who likes the Lee Collet die. I'm also happy with Lee's decapping and seating dies.I have their factory crimp dies for a number of calibres too, such as for my .30-30, .303s and double rifle. I don't really have any use for FL or body dies - haven't used either for years. I have not found them necessary, even after a case has been reloaded multiple times. I am of the view that shoulders moving forward and cases lengthening after the first fireform are a product of sizing processes, in particular such things as dragging expander balls through the neck, or "partial sizing" where shoulders get squeezed, and neck sizing with a collet die seems to obviate these problems. YMMV

As well as the dies named above, I have also used Lee's "hit'm with a hammer" Lee Loader, dies designed to be used in a vice, Simplex, Hornady and RCBS.

I love Forster. They make great ammo. I don't have anything fancy just plain old Forster dies. I like the straight line bullet seaters. They make accurate stuff. My .280 Remington shoots real well with ammo made in Forster dies.

I did that 35 years ago. I got a quality barrel and had it screwed into a good action. It works.

Depending on the caliber, brass hardness, brass thickness, the bushing die may kink the brass neck out of alignment. The expander ball may help straighten to some degree a kinked neck. I have also used mandrels in another die to straighten kinked necks.

Forster neck and full length sizers that have had the necks honed to the dimension that you want are absolutely dead nuts in producing "straight" necks. Their $12 fee to hone a neck to size is well money spent.

There are two applications, I am talking about, extremes in accuracy trying to get the best concentricity in seated rounds, and hunting accuracy or perhaps "shooting steel" accuracy.

Production dies are just that, mass produced. You have to do your own QC on any set of dies you own. It is not unusual to find std RCBS or Redding Deluxe die sets producing some very straight ammo, given modest attention to reloading techniques.

Having some kind of tool that gives you a reading on neck run out as sized, bullet seating run out is critical to check to see if your dies are producing ammo with run out .003 and less. Long range shooters try for .001 and less.

Many companies make a tool that uses an indicator to check run out, I like the 21st century due to the wheel that rotates the case

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ONce you check a die and it's run out, modify your techniques, many people sell the tool.

keith,

Thanks for the advice. I'll have to try one of those run-out gadgets....

I bought most of the dies I own used, so I've got a number of mixed sets: C-H, Lee, Lyman, RCBS, Pacific, Hornady, and some I can't identify. Never had any real problem with any of them. But then, I'm an oddball. I like Lyman/Ideal 5/8 X 30 dies.....

Don't take this personal but if I had to do everything you do I'd consider getting a 6.5 creedmoor and run factory ammo for the rest of my life.

The Lee Neck Die is 3 times faster and easier than any setup you have. Also makes straighter ammo


Trystan

Years ago, when I started reloading, bettering factory ammo was pretty easy to do.

Shooting Creed factory ammo, well it ain't that easy to out do good factory stuff. I've had to work pretty hard to edge it out, and I'm not talking about that much difference.

So, your advice is solid.

DF

HOW could you possibly know that ? You can't !.


Jerry

It's your imagination and pretend do with it as you must!


Trystan

Clark,

If you didn't use the expander balls in the Redding dies, then I'm finding it hard to comprehend how they came in worst in the test, because my experience differs considerably. As noted earlier, I use just about every kind of available mass-produced press die, primarily to understand how each works so I can write about it. Consequently I have several sets of Redding bushing dies, both standard "S" and Competition, and cannot remember any resulting in bullet runout of more than .001 to .002," and usually it's much less. In fact the dies I use for my 6mm PPC benchrest rifle are Redding Competitions, and the MOST runout I've measured on loaded rounds is around .0005".

Of course, I'm turning the necks of the 6PPC cases, but also use Redding bushing dies for much of my high-volume varmint-shooting ammo, without turning necks. Among those rifles is a CZ 527 Varmint in .17 Hornet, and with unaltered Hornady brass it averages under 1/2" for 5-shot groups at 100 yards.