Well, i’m super bummed because after months of looking forward to testing the 200 grain Federal Edge TLR bullets with my Christensen Mesa with a 1/10 twist barrel, i’ve realized that they’re just too long for my barrel and had trouble getting under 1.5 in groups

Already, spent $100 buying bullets (not factory) and it took forever to find them, so I’m back to the drawing board. Basically, I just want a bullet that will leave a good blood trail on elk or any African plains game. From my research, loved the Edge TLR’s performance and ability to provide a good blood trail because of the combination of being able to penetrate while expanding enough to create good exit wound. That said, I’ve gotta be able to shoot sub MOAs.

All that said, do you think i could get away with a lower grain/shorter bullet like a 180? If so, which one? I know Precision Hunters (ELDX) are popular, but worry they expand too quickly. Also, i guess they’re 200 grain. I guess Barnes ain’t bad either, but they done expand enough.

That sounds like a job for the Nosler Partition.




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I always used the 190 hornady 190’s. But I don’t think they make them anymore.

Barnes TTSX and don't look back

Myself and several friends ( on four trips from '96-2002) used the 300WM ( I used other calibers too, but sometimes borrowed my friends 300WM) we all used the older Barnes 180 XBT handloaded just shy of 3100fps. The TTSX is even better now ( as far as accuracy goes) We killed zebra, blue wildebeest, red hartebeest, wart hog, impala, Blesbuk, the big Namibian Gemsbuck, Springbok near and far. It was pure poison! So, get you some Barnes Vortex 180 TTSX factory ammo and get after it! BTW, I also recently bought a CA Mesa 300WM and I have several good loads, my main one being the 150 TTSX. The last bullet I worked up a load for was the Nosler 200PT. It shot them great. I don't know how long that 200 Edge TLR is, but just "maybe" your rifle doesn't like that "specific factory load"? At any rate, 1.5" is way plenty for Plains Game and many others! Have a ball though!

Nosler Partition or tipped Bear Claw

Don't expand enough for what?

The Barnes don’t expand enough to make a big exit wound. They’ll go through, but their exit wound is only like a dime vs a solid half dollar exit. Theoretically, it shouldn’t matter much if you make a perfect shot, but that isn’t reality when you’re hunting.

My experience with them has been different. Caliber sized entrance wound, ~golf-ball sized exit. Doesn't really matter what range, placement, cartridge, or bullet weight one uses, the results are ALWAYS the same. The damage that happens inside is not really reflected well by the entrance/exit.

243/85's, 25-06 & 257Wby/100's, 270Win/140's, 7-08 & 280 &280AI & 7Rem & 7WSM/120's-150's, 308 &30-06 &300WSM & 300WM 130's-200's.

Longest just a hair over 600 w/257Wby/100's, closest, <25yds 300/200's.

Fox, Badgers, Racoons, Coyotes, Pronghorn, Whittails, Mule Deer, black bear, Caribou, Elk, Moose myself. IME, they expand just fine.

You forgot to mention that the internals look like a blender passed through them.

Consider the 180 gr Protected Point Partition. Tends to be exceptionally accurate......and deadly.

how are the groups further out ? you may find 1.5 inch 100 yards groups are also 1.5 inch at 200 yards.....

at any rate 1.5 moa is more than adequate for taking elk size game at most any reasonable distance


but you could try 200 gr Accubonds , I doubt the 1 in 10 twist is your problem

I agree with trying them at 200, 300 if available. Longer bullets "yaw" at the muzzle and then "settle down" further out. It won't take but 2 or three rounds, and then you'll know for sure! At any rate, lets say, for 150yds and under, with a levergun, a 1 1/2" group makes it like a "varmint rifle", just point and shoot! It was the same in South Africa, except when we went to a big farm SE of Joberg and shot Black Wildebeest. Closest you could get to them was 350yds or so, and then only briefly! We took two, one with a 35 Whelen AI (200x) and one with a .375 H&H/270 FailSafe. Then, in Namibia, if you hunted them right, we could have eased over a dune and popped one at 150yds some were even closer, in the shade . Instead, we were with the "Afrikaaner Biltong Hunter Rat Patrol" guys! ha They would zoom over a dune, scatter a herd and chase them out to 375 and beyond. We used a .340W(210xbt) on 2 (then my scope failed) we all (5 of us) used the 300WM ( again 180xbt) and a 338WM ( 200x in it then) and we shot close to 20 animals ( Gemsbok and Springbok) none were under 300, and the longest was right at 375, 380. Those 300s all shot .75" with 3 shots, but 1 1/5 with 5. Sometimes guys missed ( running game!) 4-5 times before connecting. So...IF your rifle doesn't open up beyond several inches at 200yds, you are "gold"! This is strictly my opinion, you understand, and ,you personally, may want it to shoot tighter, I know the feeling, ha. But I just wanted to encourage you not to give up on your 200gr load yet? let us know what you end up doing, OK? Thanks.

Not to mention.....penetrates through and destroys any bone encountered!

Barnes....the solution to your “killing” problems! memtb

I killed my elk at 330 yards with 180TTSX out of a 300 Weatherby. Aside from complete pass through, the heart had a quarter sized hole right in the middle of it. Expansion AND penetration. TTSXs, like Porsche there are NO substitutes, especially at 300 WM speeds.

I use the 165 TTSX in my 300 Win mag, great groups, hell on pigs and deer. I use 150’s in my 300 Weatherby’s, don’t know why, guess that’s what I had on hand. They kill deer and pigs too. If I could only shoot one bullet, it be a Barnes TTSX. At one time I would have said Partition or Bear Claw.

Factory 212 ELDX shot sub MOA in my Christensen Ridgeline 300PRC. I’d assume they have factory offerings in the WM as well.

210 ABLR also shot extremely well but I hand loaded those.

For a blood trail try 175LRX, I load these for pards in 300 RUM and WM,great bullet.

For no blood trail but a dead carcuss, 215 hybrid. I realize the mental hurdle of using Berger is too much for some .

I am absolutely impressed with the 230 30 cal hybrids in other cartridges and that’s what I’ve settled on in the PRC as well. In the WM I’d drop to the 215 though, the 230 offers nothing over the 215 in the WM. Problem is you’d have to go with a boutique ammo company to get them if you don’t load your own..and Berger’s tend to require more tuning so that’s a crap shoot.

Wise choice Grasshopper

A 180 TSX/TTSX out of a 300 WM will kill anything that walks in North America.

I think that is a fair point about trying a different distance. I’ll need to work on finding a range farther than 100 yards, but I think I could figure something out. I also think I’m going to clean my gun before I shoot next time, as I was shooting other loads and they weren’t even shooting well even though I had shot MOAs with them in the past.

As for the reason wanting to stick with the TLRs, this testing confirmed much of my beliefs of the quality of exit wound they provide.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/the-federal-edge-terminal-long-range-bullet/330154

That said, if there’s evidence of Barnes TTSX producing similar results even at 180 grain, I’m happy to entertain given that my rifle seems to shoot them better, I think.

As for ELDX, there’s just not enough weight retention for my liking. Most people say under 200 yards, there’s less than 70%, which means no exit wound.

All the Barnes I've shot and seen shot, Bones and heavy skin/muscle underneath them made a difference ( they opened faster and wider) in wound channel and exit holes. 30 cal left 50 cent piece wound channel "all the way through, from beginning to exit hole. They penetrate like crazy too, I always use them on a "money" hunt.

A bullet that I have had the most consistent performance with is the 180gr or 200gr Accubond. Here on the fire they love the Barnes more than I do, I have found them to be somewhat inconsistent. Have had hunts where they were devastating and worked amazing well and hunts where they just pencil through and take multiple shots. The Barnes are also more temper mental to find a good load and seating depth. The Accubonds are easier to get to shoot well and always perform well on game IME.

Finicky? Barnes is one of the many accurate bullets made. I've used the TSX or TTSX since about 2004 in multiply rifles and have found them to be extremely accurate with no muss or fuss.

penciling through you have any pictures of this phenomenon?

Same here, without question...

The early X was definitely finicky, ha. The XBT was better. The XLC was a weird duck as it was so slick sometimes, in some rounds, you couldn't get enough powder behind it for real speed. It worked though. The TSX really opened the floodgate, and now, it seems, the TTSX is both accurate, fixed the fouling issues, and opens better. As said many times, IF you want to use smaller calibers on softer game, if you use a mono, best go for bone or CNS. When you game is heavy muscled, thicker skinned or you want a lot of penetration, they work really well. The compromise for me is to use Barnes to stand up to the velocity of higher speeds, i.e. magnums, or close shots with deer rifles. I have used one Accubond on game ( 180 338 RUM, Aoudad) my SIL has used them more than with .270/140 on PA deer, 338 Federal/180 on mule deer, 35 WAI/225 on elk, and 300 RUM/200 on elk. They work fine too. So hey, yes, they are great bullets too. I myself, still enjoy heavy for caliber cup n core bullets on game. But I like to do a necropsy on them, ha. I want "see" what my bullet choice did. Many, many guys could care less, as you guys know.

Yup....but the Nosler partition is a fine candidate as well.

I agree on the 200 Nosler for sure! My 300 shoots it with both H4831sc and R23 like a varmint rifle! I don't know if I would ever use it, but I know the recipe now!

That is one bullet that’ll work for everything you’d point a 300 Win Mag at.

What sorta speeds did you get from 23 and 4831 Jim?

I still wasn't able to chrono them yet Scotty. I'm guessing around 2900+ with the H4831sc load and 2800+ with the R23. But its just a guess. I "could" be running 3000 due to this rifles tight chamber and that thick Jagmann brass, ha.

No need to reinvent the wheel. Accubonds or TTSX will do your huckleberry justice.

WOW J dub you are exactly the myopian I was referring to 😂😂😂
I must admit I have not tried them in “multiply rifles “ not sure I have seen one before ❓❓ I have tried them in a few of my rifles over the years and this was my last experience....

I went on a deer hunt in 2017 where they insisted and even paid for part of your Bullets if you shot mono’s to SAVE the Condors, I figured I would give Barnes one more try , I decided to shoot one of my 223’s and use the Barnes 62gr tsx ... I bought 300 bullets and 5 boxes of Remington ammunition with the same bullet. Remington calls them HTP ammo.

I shot the Remington HTP ammo in 4 different rifles,2 AR’s and 2 bolt rifles , every group was 3”+....I started load development with my standard load for the Sierra 65gr sbt and that brought groups into the 2”- range, after about 2 more weeks of trips to the range I finally found the magic load and seating depth to shoot 1/2” groups ( I call that a bit finicky) !!!
On my hunt it was 1 shot done ✅ the bullet performed perfect ‼️

On the other end I had 2 Wyoming tags in 2010, an antelope and deer tag. I was using the Barnes 168gr tsx in my 300WM , both took multiple shots to put down as the exit hole was same size as entry hole.....about.308” diameter......amazing how their 22cal bullets worked better than their 30cal bullets. I would call that inconsistent

Shoot, zero it for 250 and commence to swatting everything down

Shocked J-dub has no reply, thought he knew everything 🤔‼️

The 200 grain Nosler A/B, shoots great in my 300 Win. Mag. With RL-23

300 Win. Mag. Info.
With the 23 powder and Nosler 200 grain A/B. As I was working up the load, increasing the powder charge the groups would get smaller. I stopped at 71 grains giving me 2878 fps. I have shot this load on paper a few times, each time going 1/2" or less.
I hope this was a help.

Who the hell is J dub?
No mention of internal damage. I've been shooting TSX or TTSX since 2004 in a multitude of rifles with zero issues. And drol in their tracks lethality. Shot placement is paramount with any bullet

I also stopped at 71 gr R23 and 72 with H4831sc. I reloaded 3 of each to chrono later this AM. The R23 primer pockets were a tad "loose" compared to the H4831 load, though both were easily resized in the FL die. My "guess" s e H4831 is closer to 2800fps and the R23 closer to 2900! I will know here in just a bit, Lord willing.

This.

I also doubt that your twist has anything to do with the accuracy issue. 1-10 should be plenty. I checked a review or two on these, and while a 1-12" .308 was a bit less accurate than it usually was, the other test rifle(s) with 1-10" were fine. Be pretty dumb to market ammo or bullets that won't stabilize in standard twists without at least warning the suckers up-front.

BTW, JB says the miracle of smaller groups at longer ranges is most likely due to scope parallax, not bullets "going to sleep". He's often right about things 😜.

A 62 grain Barnes in .223 is a very long bullet....did you has a fast enough “twist rate”? Sounds like they were not stabilized! memtb

Since he got them to shoot, twist wasn't the issue.

Mono-metal bullets are well known for requiring, usually, deeper seating, so having to fiddle a bit should be expected. Just the price of doing business when using high-performance slugs.

Think of all the money you save because you only have to shoot stuff once!🤔

I've avoided the non-tipped Barnes because of reports of less than consistent expansion. The .270 130gr my son used way back when did just fine, however, maybe because the deer was close, or because the tip hadn't been battered in the magazine. Entrance and exit holes don't always indicate the carnage inside.

Pappy348, I guess I didn’t read closely enough. A bad habit, always in too big a hurry! memtb

I do it all the time.

So i reloaded my bullets again and backed the seating off the rifling a little bit. What’s been your experience with that? Any better luck?

Buck, if you want to try the Barnes Vor-TX factory ammo, I have two boxes of their 165 gr TTSXs. A friend bought them by mistake and asked me to sell them for him. Just let me know.

Sheeeittt...... every bull elk and mule deer I ever shot with a 168 gr TTSX from my .300 Roy folded up like a rollaway bed as did those hit with 7mm Weatherby 150 gr TTSX. If someone’s bellyaching about TTSX or TSX performance, it is likely they have never used them or can’t shoot worth beans. JMO

Yep. End of conversation.......

Seating depth made all the difference! Shot a 3/4 in group!

How much shipped? I'm interested.

So I ended up shooting out at 200 and 300 yards and now feel really good about moving forward with the Edge TLRs. Still shot a 1.5 inch group at 300 yards. Last real test would be to just see what kind of performance it would have on a big boar hog at 300 yards and see what kind of wound channel and exit wound it would provide. Do you think that would be an adequate enough test for an elk? I live in Texas.

Absolutely, especially if you shoot him at a good angle. with all the dried mud, coarse hair, thick skin/fat , heavy muscles, decent size bones, they are a Very good bullet test! I'm a native Texan, left for the Ministry when I was 34, and grew up in East, Texas hunting everything. Saw many hogs killed and killed many hogs myself...they are pretty tough. I've killed them with .22 Magnum, .280, 30-06, .44 Mag carbine and 30-30. I've seen more hogs lost from Buckshot than anything else, and the 6mm Remington and .243 were OK if shot "right", of course. Give them a whirl, at least you will have more "in the field time" with a great rifle! ( Love my Mesa, just got another one in 6.5 Creedmoor! )

I am also keen on Nosler, both Partitions and Accubonds. I also hold the TTSX bulletin high regard.

In the Noslers, I choose whichever is most accurate. In my .300 WM, it is the 200 grain Accubond ahead of 77.4 grains of RL26, Fed 215M, Winchester (older blue bag stuff). Gives me right at 3000 fps from 24 inch barrel. Like in the .270 and some other calibers, RL26 has been a game changer for me.

I use R17 for my 150TTSX/300WM and it too has been a great one. I also use R23/H4831sc/200NPT for 2800-2900 in my 300WM. I got 2930fps/160 Nosler/270Win with R26 too! Love these old & new powders!

Not that I have ever seen, although "blender" is subjective. The certainly do not shred internals like. Hornady Interloc or a Nosler Ballistic Tip.
And the certainly dont provide for large exit wounds either IME.