Question for those experienced in both bear country and horses-
Bryce Towsley's experience brought to mind a question that I have pondered for years-In a horseback hunt in bear country, which is most likely to seriously injure a hunter- A horse or a bear?
I say the horse has hurt more people by far.

Royce

Horse big time!

Mark D

Yup - bear country or no, horseback hunting can be hazardous to your health!

Maybe so, but try saddling a bear to hunt horses.
t <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Especially when one tows his horse behind a rubber raft crossing the Salmon river and the horse decides to climb into the raft with her owner. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

I don't know if I'd fault the horse so much as the idea, but it sounds like real western fun to me. I don't suppose you have a video of that, do you? :-)
t

Sure sounds like fun. I bet the horse has injured a lot more folks than bears. Horese are a darn dumb aninmal compared to other animals on the planet.
I was in Canada on a hunt one time, an elk had been wounded ( not by anyone in our party), adn had crossed over onto a govt horse ranch where hunting was not permitted. We were permitted to ride across it though. A Grizzley had finally killed the elk and was on the carcass for a few days. Since it had left, the guide said we could ride up to the carcass to take a look.

Once the guide ask me to get off and put my boot in the bear track to get the size of the bear. I was very skeptical, but the guide said the horse would let me know if the bear was around. The horse was already dancing around snorting. Trying to get back on, that damn horse almost killed me in the process and the bear was no where around

The problem with hunting and horses lies in the inherent danger created when people get on some of the useless, poorly broke nags that they seem to think make good horses. Rodeos have no place on hunting trips, better to spend time in the off season, under more controlled conditions, ensuring that the horse is a steady mount. I've had only one problem horseback hunting and the horse that created it was sold ASAP, some have the disposition for this type of work and some don't. If one only uses good, experienced animals the possibility of danger is pretty low. There's nothing like backcountry hunting on horseback. To my way of thinking, it is the only way to travel the trails.

I couldn't agree with you more Ranger 1. Getting those animals experienced though acan be a handful though

I have written at least once or twice in articles that the only two truly dangerous large mammals a hunter might encounter in North America are the grizzly bear and the saddle horse, and the horse is far more likely to be aggressive.

Have been on a bunch of horses over the years and don't totally trust even the best of them. A few years ago one of the best horseback outfitters I've ever known was killed by his own personal favorite, when just starting out on the last summer pack trip of the season. One of that guy's favroite lines about horses: "They'll kill you and never shed a tear."

John Barsness

Horses and bears have a few things in common. The main thing is there are many people who ought not be around either one of them.

I happen to ride only mules. There is an old addage that horses will kill you by accident where as mule will do it on purpose. Both will hurt you a lot though if one is not careful

Almost all of my scariest outdoor experiences have involved horses. I still own them, and love them, in spite of the danger they pose. My best horse (a Quarter Horse) is as close to "bomb-proof as a hunting horse can be - but now, I usually just crank the keys on my Polaris ATV when I want to cover some serious ground. It generally gets me where I want to go - with less danger. But it's still very dangerous from time to time.The only thing they have in common - is the same risk-taking dummy sitting on the backs of both of them.

Bears rank way down, behind horses and ATV's, when it comes to the chance they'll kill or cripple you.

Considering how many inexperienced riders get on horses and head into rough country it is surprising more people aren't hurt. Goes for experienced riders as well.
Went on a elk hunt with Muleskinner a few years ago and saw first hand what a rodeo with a string of pack animals looks like. Thought I was going to have to wade into that mayhem and save Muleskinner but he restored order though he had to pick himself up to do it.

Considering how many inexperienced riders get on horses and head into rough country it is surprising more people aren't hurt. Goes for experienced riders as well.
Went on a elk hunt with Muleskinner a few years ago and saw first hand what a rodeo with a string of pack animals looks like. Thought I was going to have to wade into that mayhem and save Muleskinner but he restored order though he had to pick himself up to do it.

Having made a living aboard a horse in the past I've spent a fair amount of time on them (18 hours a day in the saddle). They are dangerous, but become much more so with an idiot on top of them. Worse yet with an idiot that knows enough to be dangerous.

Chuck

All so true, but if it wasn't for bears and horses I'd have almost no stories to tell and very few good photos. Life would be about exciting as sitting in a blind waiting for a deer to step out into a field. I'll take the bears and horses any day.

Accidents can happen to even the most experienced, but, they can usually be avoided by not doing the things that we know that we shouldn't. I look for a docile horse that has good heart, some like a horse with lots of go and stamina. Regardless, no animal can be trusted 100% of the time, so vigilance is paramount and patience is key. I guess my point is that most accidents can be avoided by proper preparation and choice of mounts. In the end, traveling by horseback is still a dangerous activity, just much less so for those well prepared.

A horse--but that's because most folks haven't tried to saddle a bear...

I have tried to rope a bear...but we all escaped unscathed... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Casey

I've never been bear hunting, but I sit here reading this with a broken hip and some permanent disability in my right leg courtesy of a horse. I even let him live, which I thought was very considerate, seeing as I was bleeding to death waiting on the dang helicopter.

don't i know it... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Regards, sse

A bear will swat you one and leave you alone (most times). A horse will step on your foot and move all his weight to that @@#%$%&@ leg until you kick him in the belly with the other foot.

Did I mention I detest horses? FWIW, Dutch.

Have been on horses and mules my entire life, hunting and not. Luckily I have never been hurt by a horse or mule while hunting other than a few banged knees on trees and a few scrapes from falls. But I have seen my share of others get seriously hurt while hunting with horses. Most were from people not knowing horses or people using horses they shouldn�t. I do have to add that I prefer mules over horses any day, ride the mule and use the horse for packing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

More are injured by horses. Bears got to get you to hurt you, why is good idea to hunt with buds you can outrun.

Horses usually have already got you on top, by side, or front or back, when they hurt you, LOL!

I have ridden quite a bit but was bucked off once when a grouse got up under my horse's schnoz in a mountain meadow; I have seen another horse stop at a small stream big enough for a child to step over, pause and then leap across leaving his rider, moderately experienced, sitting over air before his butt collided with the ground.

The outfitter - the owner of the horse I rodeoed with - got on his white mule rode and out of camp; later the mule plunged through an aspen grove, rubbing him off as he galloped through the trees; the outfitter fell on his radio which was on his hip and had to hobble a couple of miles back to camp. By the time he got back the mule had already been back for an hour or so muching grass in our meadow. The outfitter was hot and demanded my buddy get his .338 and blast him right there. I talked him out of it and probably shouldn't have.

Mules are sure footed; that's what I was pondering after having watched one trip over a fist sized rock on a level trail in an open meadow in the middle of the day, both mule and rider doing a header, the last clear over the first. The rider was unhurt but the mule actually suffered a two inch gash over one eye; his forehead actually bashing the ground. And... we had been taking a very steep, slippery, muddy switchback trail down at least five hundred feet every morning before light. Hmmmmm.
Then there was a time when at the trail head the outfitter pulled two big draft horses out of the trailer; I'm sure my face turned about the color of the snow there just south of Yellowstone. Later walking down a snow packed trail, my horse lost his footing and went straight down; somehow I threw myself to the side and was unhurt and he fell, luckily, scabbard side up. Another time leading this 1800 lb mountain of horse flesh down a very steep and slippery enbankment, I turned to see him sitting on his a$$, front legs straight out like some giant dog sliding for all he was worth, coming straight for me. Another dive to the side as he crashed past me. That time I thought I detected the hint of a smile as he went by.

You've heard of defensive driving? Well, when you get aboard a horse, or mule for that matter......

nathanial, you and my dad would get along splendidly! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Remember, as my grandfather puts it, people die in bed.

Chuck

I have enjoyed the stories. My gr'dad would only drive mules
my dad only drove horses go figure. Just remember the only
predictable thing about horses is that they are unpredictable.
a mule will be your friend for 20 years to get a clear shot
at you. happy hunting and good riding Cheers NC

On subject sort of, I have often wondered what happens when sombody hunting on horseback ties up thier animal and then hikes away. What happens if a bear happens onto the horse, will the horse head for the hills, is it possible that the owner of the horse will end up having to track his own horse for miles?

Do you tie up a horse so that it is possible for the horse to break free if confronted by a bear or lion, or do you never leave that much distance between you and your horse?

This thread is oh so timely. Just this past week I was bear hunting and it seemed the bear was near as the young horse I was on was very jumpy. Well jump he did and I having my packed boots on (snow was plentiful enough) could only get my toes in the stirrups, the saddle slipped and he kept skidding over so I figured the best thing I could do was get off as best as possible. As my hands and lips hit the terra firma I was thankful there was no rock or cow pie under my lips. There was plenty of both to go around. Picking myself up with my partner laughing his fool head off I looked around to see a squirrel running around. It was the only thing that was moving.

Then a friend was riding his horse Saturday when a blue grouse flew out from under her belly. She freaks a little but then slips in the mud and sends my friend rolling down the hill and runs all the way back to the corral.

Finally, I had my least experienced horse out getting some miles under him. We were going over some flat rock with a slight tilt to it. I have seen pool table about as level. He decides to tip toe over it and down he goes. Luckily, I try never to get complacent while riding and was able to get off standing. He got up and we went on. Hasn't been a problem since.

This all happened in a months time.

The problem with horses is they have a small brain and too many people (sometimes I think with even smaller ones) think they are John Wayne. There is more to riding than sitting up there trying to look good. If you are going on a horseback trip/hunt and have never been on a horse or not in a long time go get lessons well in advance of the trip.

Also, if you are inexperienced and you're with people who tear up and down the country side on their mounts causing yours to get goofy find other friends to ride with.

I always figured horses were just barely smart enough to know how to p**s me off! On a 10 week stint as a wrangler for a sheep outfitter, I was dang near killed by horses on several occasions. Most memorable was one occasion, in which I had been chasing a wayward group of horses up and down the mountainside for several hours, as they were determined not to go back to camp. My mount was rather high strung and excitable, though very fast and great stamina. Anyway, he decided to go through some thick tree's, and I was turned around trying to see if the horses where circling again. I got scrubbed off, but one boot hung up. Off we go, bouncing through the woods at a run. I'm not sure how far we went, but I finally go slung against a tree hard enough to pull my foot free. Took a while to breathe again, but finally did and managed to find and catch my horse again. It was a long painful ride back to camp, but we did it,and with all the horses too. Another time, I was riding a very nice but somewhat skittish young mare, and leading two massive drafts,tail tied together. Come to a creek with a 2 foot drop off into the water. She hesitated, then went for it. Problem was, those two drafts weren't having it, and put the brakes on. The rope was looped over my horn, and it caught somehow. Next thing I know,I'm upside down in the river,saddle and all. Cinch was ripped in half. Hunting on horseback, especially those area's where no motorized vehicle's are allowed, is probably one of life's better experiences. I guess hair raising experiences is the price you pay.

Sorry, but sounds like pilot error to me on both occasions. Glad you didn't get killed though.
t

It takes alot of wet saddle blankets to arrive with a "broke" horse under you. Bomb proof is still another consideration and takes even more experience and time to accomplish. Only some horses are good candidates for "bomb proofing" and potentialy high stress situations.Nearly all wrecks ahorseback are a result of fear on the horses part and their reaction to a situation and of course poor judgement on the riders part. I by no means consider horses to be dumb but they don't think like you and I. They are basicaly a prey/herd animal with a high flight instinct built in..Soooo..some of the iffiest situations you can put even a trusted mount through can be with a predator like a bear or a cat....

My ideal montain horse (other than a real ideal mountain horse) is a retired rodeo pick up horse. Quick as a cat and dead calm.
t

Yes sir that's a good source. I'm a firm believer in taking a horse to town to smooth out those wrinkles. It's harder for a flatlander to make a good mountain horse if you don't have much terra firma to ride beside instead of just over but dead calm is obtainable. It's not a big jump from here to N. New Mexico and some easy mountain country for a younger horses introduction to that type of terrain (generally no switchbacks at first) Eastern Okieland has some good training terrain also. The best mountain/hunting horse I've ever owned came out of the cutting arena. You could shoot a howitzer over her and she'd laugh at you if you missed. She got a little snorty over a bear once but held her ground. She would have nothing to do with a cat though - not even a bobcat but barn cats weren't safe in her neighborhood as they'd end up flatter than usual. I guess we all have our limitations...I sure do miss that mare...

Had a Molly when I was a teen that sounds just like your mare. Miss her a good deal also.
However, Buddy the john pictured at left is a good ride and freind. He is one great bear radar, ears straight up and points like a short hair.

Oh, mine were all pilot error, no question. See, I had never ridden a horse in my life till I went up there. I just wanted to go up to sheep hunting camp so bad, I figured,what the hey, gotta take a chance sometime. Went from never having ridden to spending 12 hours a day in the saddle. After 10 weeks of that, I maybe couldn't ride real good, but I learned how to hang on! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

xx
Excellent response and a great adventure for you at the time. Too bad somebiody didn't take a few minutes to improve your chance of surviving. But it happens that way, sort of a cowboy joke on greenhorns. Learn fast or die. Bet you wouldn't trade it for anything.
t <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bears and horses?

I've been hurt by horses plenty of times, staritng when I was a kid. A bear has never aid a finger on me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Of course, when we introduce bears, there may be bear pepper spray around...and when we introduce that to a horses face, look out! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

I had a rodeo last month becuase of pepper spray to a horses face!

Toltecgriz, your right, I wouldn't trade that for anything. Still take my photo album down once in a while and sit there going through all the pictures I took up there, plotting my return. And Gatehouse, pray tell, how exactly did pepper spray end up in a horses face? No chance you got video,eh? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We were coming through a wooded area, not much of atrail. As I rounded a tree/came upa ditch, a pack horse in fron t of me was doing a rodeo show!!

Ran right into my horse, who went nuts and tossed me. Then my pack horses decided to run me over, too!!

When asked why they first one went crazy, tmy buddy said "I htink a wasp stung it"

The next day I find out that his pepper spray (which was on his belt) got the safety tab knocked out and soehtign hit it- causing it to discharge int e horses face. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

He didn't tell me at the time, because he was frightened I may try to knock him out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I've meant to tell you that that is a good looking mule you got there. Handsome fella...

Gatehouse _ I hope your still not chasing all your stock... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
XXclaro - I think there's an old saying that goes something like this "The best thing for the inside of a man is the outside of a horse."

I think that was Will Rogers who said it. Seems true to me.
t

I have been riding my whole life. I raise my own horses from breeding and break and train them.

If a horse ever bucks during the breaking process, or anytime else he is wearing a saddle, the trainer has done something wrong.

I have attempted to train a couple of horses which needed skills beyond those I had available, those horses are now in a can of dog food somewhere.

I expect my horses to suffer a pheasant or grouse flushing into their belly with no more than a twitch of an ear or an uneasy step. I expect them to actively strive to take care of me or the kids riding them when on the trail, just as we strive to take care of them.

So far I have not been disappointed with the horses which survived my culling criteria. They would work for me until their legs buckled under them from fatigue if I asked them to. And they always went out of their way to look out for the rider.


I might guess that some bad experiences on guided pack hunts is due to a guide worried more about saving dollars on his horse purchases than he is worried about his clients' safety. A good "bomb proof" trail ready horse is worth many thousands of dollars regardless of any papers or lack of he may have in his pedigree. A "broke horse" on the other hand can be had for a few hundred dollars at any auction.

Some other bad experiences are no doubt due to inexperienced riders with a John Wayne attitude totally confusing an otherwise well trained and safe horse.

Horses are one of the most intelligent animals on the planet. They have been selectively bred for their intelligence and trainability for thousasnds of years. But they do not think with human logic.

If you inexperienced and are lucky enough to be riding a GOOD trail horse, just leave him alone and enjoy the ride. He knows what he is doing, there is a good chance that he has been down this same trail a good many times more than you.



A well trained horse does not need tied, just drop the reigns on the ground and he will not move more than a few steps as he feeds. It is called "ground tied". The same as telling a good dog to "stay".

I have fallen off of my horses a few times in the hills. I claim to be a much better horse trainer than I am a rider. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Not once has it been the horses fault. My horses just stand there and look at me. You can almost see the thoughts in their eyes. "What the heck are you doing down there? Aren't you supposed to be in the saddle?

I usually do not hunt more than a few hundred yards from my horses. I try not to get out of earshot. If a predator were to bother them I would be close enough to intervene. This is a real concern now that we have wolves throughout the portion of Idaho in which I recreate and hunt. The horse might cross the meadow I left him in, but would come quickly when called after the exitement was over.

I listed my thoughts about horses and bears in another post on the �Question for any of the gunwriters� thread.

However I will offer this. My guide in Montana a few weeks back had an interesting story about a tied up horse. Seems a horny bull moose tried rather persistently to make love to his horse while said horse was tied to a stout tree.

Apparently it was quite a show.

Bryce

Horses ur not familiar with can be quite troublesome. I much prefer to ride my own or borrow one from someone I trust rather than just jump on some random steed and wait to see how they behave. BTW I know of alot more folk injured by an ATV rollin back on them goin up a hill or hittin a washout than by a horse caused accident.

Since Jack O'Connor was mentioned in a recent thread, I remember reading a delightful chapter he wrote on horses. It started with a statement that the horse is the most dangerous animal you will encounter in North America because you don't know what he will do next and he doesn't either.

Cheers,

Bryce
Did he he get him bred?
I've often thought that a horse that was half moose would be the ideal mountain horse.
t <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

By now it is quite apparent that we have been talking about two different kinds of horses on this thread: The personal horses that some posters have, and the horses that many of us have to ride when going on a guided hunt or drop camp.

It is nice to ride horses that we know, but that is not always possible, leading to some surprises. There also seems to be an attitude among the horse owners here that any "accident" is due to operator error. Well, from some experience I would say this can't be assumed.

I have been riding horses since age three, sometimes after cows, sometimes while hunting and sometimes just to be riding them. Have even occasionally been a mounted guide from time to time. Generally I have gotten along OK with strange horses, and often am given one with some "spirit" after the outfitter sees that I am not exactly a greenhorn.

But we must remember that when on an outfitter's horses we very well may be among other people who don't know much. These can be a real problem. On one summer pack trip, where I had been asked to fill in as a guide by an outfitter I knew, I was sitting peacefully in the saddle, ready to take up the drag, while we were getting lined out to head up the trail into the mountains. All of a sudden one of the women who'd signed on for the trip came widing toward me with one arm cocked way out to the side, her palm flat as if to swat my horse right between the eyes. Luckily, I saw her coming and reined my horse out of harm's way, giving her a few choice words in the meantime. Turned out she'd seen a "bee" land on my horse's forehead and was thoughtfully going to swat it for our benefit.

Also, a really good mountain horse is a joy to ride, but no matter how well broken very damn few I have encountered are perfectly grizzly-broke.

JB

The biggest problem with most horses today,is they don't get enough miles on them to be really broke and they're left for months at a time with no riding . Outfitters aren't exempt either. The vast majority of outfitters may do one or two pack trips a summer,leaving those horses largely unridden from november until the following summer. Then they don't get ridden seriously until archery season in september.

A local guy,just out of a rehab house for brain damage. He was elk hunting on horse back and a grizzly spooked his horse. He ended up kissing a pine tree at a dead run. Ayear later he's getting out of intensive care,plus is now missing grey matter. This guy isn't a novice either. He literally spends thousands of hours a year on horseback.

I've never owned a horse but grew up with neighbors who did and as a kid I rode quite a bit mostly on their temperamental little pony.
As a hunter often going on guided hunts I ride about every year but only at that time. Still, after thirty some years I'm fairly comfortable in the saddle.
Actually, the draft horse I mentioned above that initially scared me stiff and that had a penchant for falling down was one of the most even-tempered and tractable I've been on.
Another was a little pony I packed into the Bob Marshall on following a trail that followed the rim of a canyon dropping a thousand feet below us. I rode the whole eighteen miles more or less with my canyon-side foot out of the stirrup ready to bail if my steed even hiccouped. That trail was muddy and slippery from melted snow but the little pony didn't miss a beat and I gradually relaxed. Those two, the biggest and smallest were the most manageable I've been on including the smoothest riding critter I've ever been on, a mule, who unfortunately was aslo unfazed by any efforts to direct him in any direction or at any other speed than the one he chose.

my favorite rifle, a old remington 721 in .270 has a about 6" gash about 1/4" deep from a horse that kicked it while it was laying next to my grandpas leg in bed at bear camp

When I was guiding we had a few new horse's come in.One real nasty one but pretty easy riding in the mountians.The other one well after 2 trips the owner said to me Mike where's your 300.In the gun rack I replied.Not more than a minute latter BOOM.

The outfitter came in and said Not one smooth step in that horse and I ain't wasting hay this winter.

True Story.

Years ago a friend went to the Jackson Hole area on an elk hunt. Two of the guys that invited him along, had their own saddle horses and tried to talk him into letting them give him some pointers and some saddle time, so he wouldn't get so sore on the elk hunt.

He asked me what I thought and I opined that since they were both out of shape lardasses and he was a karate instructor of long standing, that he'd likely weather the trip better than they would. First night in camp, both Keystone Cowboys had to helped off'n their nags, while my bud fared pretty well. One of the guides chuckled at the groaning from the other two, said riding all day in Wyoming ain't like a half day trailride in Pennsylvania, is it?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My huntin' bud's wife has kept horses for 40 years or more, mostly hunters. Used to kid him all the time about riding with his wife to the hounds, but he never trusted anything that weighed ten times what he did and almost had a brain twixt its ears.

Now that he's gone, stop over to visit the widder from time to time so she don't get to missing his favorite bit of advice whenever she'd bitch about one of her fleabags: The ALPO truck ain't but a few minutes away, dear.

Horses are a great hunting tool. But they're arguably the most dangerous thing you'll encounter while hunting.

I just got through with a big horn sheep hunt and had three guides that all were experienced horseman and make a living off of horses in the off season. That said,everyone of them had serious injuries sustained while dealing with well trained horses. Simply stated there are so many variables present while using a horse in the wilderness,that an eventual injury is nearly guaranteed.

The head guide I used had a mountain horse that was incredible,that said. This same horse broke this guides back in two places. The horse fell into a sink hole throwing its rider. The rider fell next to the horse and before he could roll away,the horse stood back up and planted its front hoof right in the middle of the guides back. All 1200 lbs forcing down.

The second guide had a bear spook one of his best mountain horses. This same horse had stood its ground with two other bear encounters,with no blow ups. This time a bear approached the horse at arms length and at saddle height. The horse and guide were on a narrow heavily treed trail,the horse lunged forward and the guide had his right foot catch a pine tree. The result was his entire leg from the knee down was twisted backwards and snapped. He rode into camp with his calf facing forward and his toes pointing toward the ass of the horse. Luckily a doctor was in camp and drugged him up,for the 30 mile ride back to the trail head.

The third guide is currently being operated on for a knee injury. The horse he was on after a full season of hunting,decided that it was scared of an 8 inch tree stump that it had passed over with confidence a couple dozen times. This time it blew up and landed on the guides leg and granite slab.

I really enjoy hunting on horse back,but its without question the most dangerous part of hunting out there. And the majority of the time its a bombproof horse that causes injury.

I perfer the ATV.Ain't scared of any bear and is alway's right were you parked it.Another bonus is they're easier to wrangle in the mornings.

You'll never see it in hunting camp, but wearing a helmet (like they use for hunter-jumoer and instructing) is a great idea. But you'll never see it (unless it becomes an insurance requirement).

And never, never think you can relax around, or especially on top of a horse. But I do love 'em. I've had horses that would go out of their way to hurt you and others that clearly try to keep from hurting you. Guess which ones got to stay.

t

One good, young outfitter out of Buena Vista, CO who was a very good hunter, was just beginning his operation in the Flattops. While setting up his camp that I and a friend later hunted out of, his wrangler was working with a horse that spooked; the wrangler got tangled in some tack and was dragged through an aspen grove suffering a compound fracture of one of his legs.
The outfitter had to jury rig a travois to drag him several miles down to his truck listening to him moan all the way down. After surgery and all the medical expenses he incured the wrangler sued the outfitter who of course carried the required liability insurance, a CO mandated requirement for outfitters. Of course the dominos continued to topple and the insurance co. dropped the outfitter as a client and he could not get another policy; so some months after our hunt which was one of only a few he had that year his outfitting career in CO ended.
During my last contact with him he told me he was driving truck.
My kingdom for a horse? Or, my job because of a horse.

When I was guiding we had a few new horse's come in.One real nasty one but pretty easy riding in the mountians.The other one well after 2 trips the owner said to me Mike where's your 300.In the gun rack I replied.Not more than a minute latter BOOM.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did the rest of the horses in camp pick up the pace the next day?

I start a few colts every year and work with problem horses for folks. Much of a training or re-training process involves the rider as much as the horse and their relationship. So many times I've been aproached by a parent looking to get a horse for a child or even an adult looking for a "good" horse. I have a pat answer for them all - Take riding lessons. For a child that goes through a good period of lessons learns well and still wants to continue without losing intrest it's cheaper and money well spent, the same applies to an adult. There is simply more to riding (and communicating) a horse than sitting in a saddle and lettin your legs hang down...

Absolutely. Well said.
t

One thing I reccomend strongly is a set of Break Away Stirrups from STI i nMontna. Expensive, but worth every penny.

Spot on here MD. Riding one's own horses is far different than riding "rental" horses around a bunch o'dudes.

When I first read this thread I thought the question was getting hurt by bear or horse during a mounted encounter. That outcome is controlled by so many variables that it's not possible to predict the result, IMO.

Here's one of the loves of my life. Steady,dependable Ruby!

Reading this thread with great interest. Was born on Manhattan Island, lived here all 77 years, except for Army time, have been on a horse exactly once in my life after elk in Montana. The preceding summer took a good many hours riding lessons in rural New Jersey. I needed them, believe me. Was amazed at how sure footed my horse - no doubt the outfitter's easiest - was on slopes I would have had to negotiate on hands and knees. Might try it again if I live long enough. But would have to take lessons again !!

FWIW, when we are hunting, the horses are tied in such a way that they are where they were left, when we return. That'd be the case for horses left in camp while out hunting either afoot or on a saddle horse, and a saddle horse tied during a foray afoot away from camp. The horses left in camp might be there pretty much the entire day on a 30' tie out. Rope-smart horses are another topic! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

To tie a horse to be able to break away when in danger is dang near impossible and relies too much on a horse's allaged judgement as to when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

My pard Don and I have long thought it'd be entertaining to watch a brownie come inside the tether circle of his horse Danger (yes, there's a story there!) - we both figure the bear would have the um, stuffing knocked outta him (her).