In reading here on the fire I hear a lot about game meat quality in regards to rigor mortis, mostly in the arguments that erupt over the gutless method. My question is how long after the animal dies does it take before they come out of rigor? If you absolutely have to get to it and bone one out immediately after it hits the ground, IE storm coming, last evening of your trip, is there anything you can do to assure better results?

I ask as a proponent of the gutless method on anything too big to drag and deer too if they’re too far to drag. This year I shot a raghorn bull elk across a canyon in CO. It took us about 45 minutes to an hour to work our way around the face to him. But when we got there we did the gutless on him. Hung him in camp the rest of the week in the shade and then in the cooler at home for a few days while I cut a quarter per evening after work. He’s been outstanding eating, very tender and mild. Would he have been in and back out of rigor in the hour it took us to get to him?

My wife killed a 3 year old 10 point whitetail buck this past Monday. I gutted him and we hauled him to my folks’ place. We dallied around having supper for an hour or so before hanging him in the barn. Weather forecast called for 60s the next day so I went ahead and skinned and quartered him and hung everything in the cooler until Friday. I just had some inch thick steaks medium rare off a back strap for lunch and it was quite possibly the best venison I’ve ever eaten, mild and almost fork tender. Was waiting an hour or a little more to quarter him long enough for him to come out of rigor or am I just lucky?

I shot a decent 9 pointer on Friday morning. Gutted and loaded him up and then came on back to town. Temps were in the 40s so I went and drank a couple cups of coffee with my uncles and dad, probably 3 hours before I had him hung in the barn. I skinned and quartered him and stacked everything in the cooler, I guess I’ll find out in a couple days if the third time is the charm.

The Kid,

Posted this not too long ago on another Campfire forum:

The scientific term for what can sometimes toughen boned meat is "shortening," because the muscle cells actually contract when disconnected from the bones. This can also happen even when left on the bone, if the meat cools down too quickly, especially when it goes from warm to freezing in a few hours, which these days is called "thaw shortening." I had this happen to an eating-size mule deer buck here in Montana one Thanksgiving. We hung the field-dressed carcass on a corral gate to cool overnight, and the temperature dropped below zero. The toughest deer I've ever taken! Even hanging the carcass for several days after it thawed didn't tenderize the meat much.

The warm-meat problem is due to rigor mortis, which is also essentially a muscle contraction. If the muscles start to go into rigor before the boning occurs, then the meat can toughen due to the contraction. Oddly enough, this is more likely to happen in warmer weather--which is when many hunters bone out animals, to "cool 'em down." Warm temperatures accelerate the chemical process of rigor, while cooler temperatures slow it down.

The other factor, of course, is the tenderness of the individual animal. Wild animals are not a consistent "product," like domestic meat sold in stores. They vary considerably in age and condition, and younger animals have less of what is called "organized collagen," the protein fiber that makes meat tougher--which is broken down during the chemical process of "hanging" game. Some species develop relatively little organized collagen even as they grow older, such as pronghorns, so "shortening" doesn't affect their meat as much. In fact we've boned out quite a few freshly-killed antelope with no problems.

Other animals can be affected when boned out, depending on their age and how far rigor mortis has progressed. It's better to bone them before rigor even starts, or after it has dissipated--which normally takes at least a day, though again, temperature affects the chemical process.

As a matter of fact, we've been timing the rigor-mortis process with a mule deer doe I took last week, because my wife Eileen writes game cookbooks for most of her living, and wanted to get some precise results. So we put a thermometer out in the garage, and checked the doe (an older, bigger one) periodically, starting two hours after it was killed. Eileen will probably write it up for our on-line magazine, RIFLE LOONY NEWS. We'll probably take one or two more deer this season, and will repeat the "experiment" on them.

Usually you are talking about 24 hours.

What the animal was doing when it was killed makes big difference.There are a lot of variables that effect tenderness. I mentioned rigor mortis because when I use to do a full quartering of an elk and split the spine, with no deboning, the back strap/loins/T-bones were always the most tender cuts. Now I find the opposite to be true.This is only my experience and I eat a lot of elk. I am sure others will chime in and have completely opposite opinions on it.

I've tried to age boneless meat in a cooler with ice with mixed results at best.

I’ll add that when I mention the cooler I’m not speaking of an ice chest. My cooler is an old Coca Cola refrigerator from my dad’s old convenience store with the racks removed. So meat is held at about 35-38 deg with room for air to flow around it.

The ideal way to process a deer or elk is to hang it whole, skinned and cleaned for 24-48 hours with temperatures of the meat not above 40deg. This will allow all the animal to go through rigor. Then you should quarter it and get the temperature down in the upper 30's until you get it all cut and wrapped. Elk are not often in a location to get this done. I do not do the gutless method. I am not a Lazy meat packer.

batlz,

Exactly--but as some have noted that's not always possible

Here's the piece of info The Kid apparently passed over from my info: "It's better to bone them before rigor even starts, or after it has dissipated--which normally takes at least a day, though again, temperature affects the chemical process."

One concrete example might be a young cow elk (not a calf) Eileen killed in 2013, in a deep draw over a mile downhill from the road where we parked the pickup. It was late in the afternoon on a very warm day in early September, and instead of doing gutless, we field-dressed it conventionally. Then, while Eileen cut off the lower legs and head, I hiked back to the pickup for our Neet-Kart (a concession to age that I purchased at 60), an inline-tire game cart that has handles at both ends, with bicycle-type brakes.

By the time I got back she was done, and I sawed the spine in two right behind the ribcage, which still left the backstraps mostly connected to the spine. We loaded the back half on the cart and wheeled it out as the light faded, then came back in the dark for the front half. (Did not want to leave it overnight because there are a few grizzlies in that country.) By the time we loaded both halves into the pickup it was 10:00, and we drove an hour home and hung the halves up. Did not skin any of it, except for slicing the hide down along the spine and peeling it back enough to cool out the shoulders. Hung the halves in the garage, which cooled down to around 50 overnight. Left it on the bone until rigor dissipated, then skinned and cut up the carcass enough to fit into big coolers for a little aging, before we butchered a few days later.

Maybe the meat would have all been tender if we'd boned it out, but have had some experiences otherwise.

John, you about have me talked into one of those Neet-Karts.

If you are by yourself, packwheel or honey badger wheel beats neetcart.....

We deal with heat in TX mostly.

If I can gut a deer I'll let it hang over night if temps are ok or all day.

Usually we have to debone a bit within a few hours. In that bad time usually IE starting rigor.

I try like heck to go early or late but lots of times the weather is the factor.

After that it stays in the cooler almost always 10 days on ice. We don't have a walk in... or weather to hang.

We rarely have bad meat.

The worst I've had though is even been backstraps taken off an animal during rigor... tough as whatever you think tough is to you.

Preferably I'd hang for 10 or more days at the right temps with hide on...

Yep!

The Neet Kart is best for heavier loads with a person on each end. Generally I can handle a pronghorn or a doe deer by myself, but last fall killed a big-bodied mule deer buck and after lashing him to the NK as it lay sideways on the ground, could NOT get it tipped upright. Turned out he and the cart together weighed more than I did!

Killed him just at the end of legal light, and didn't particularly want to cut him in half and make two trips in the dark. But I wasn't far from where Eileen was hunting whitetails on the Missouri River, and she had our old side-by-side wheeled cart in her pickup, so she drove over and brought it. It only weighs about 12 pounds and one person can easily bring out a pretty big deer--but it isn't nearly as good on sidehills as the inline NK.

Lots of good info here from folks with tons of experience.

Because of my health issues, we started doing the gutless method several years ago. Perhaps we have just been lucky, but so far, we've had nothing but fantastic results. This past Sunday, I took two mature whitetail does just seconds apart -- and a little before 7 a.m. The temp was probably in the high 40s/low 50s. By the time I rounded up our twin boys to do the retrieval, heavy lifting, weighing, etc., along with getting a few photos, nearly 90 minutes had passed. But by noon, both had been taken care of and the meat put on ice in an over-sized ice chest. We'll wrap and freeze it in the next couple of days.

Last night, we took one of the hams, sliced it fairly thin, seasoned it and then double-battered and deep-fried it. It was melt-in-your-mouth tender.

From this:



to this...in about 36 hours...

Made tender with a Contender! That your 30-30 barrel?

One of the problems with caring for deer meat in Texas is that it is often pretty cool in the morning and can be 70-80 at noon so you can't hang the meat. It would be nice to have some information on what temps and how ling you have before the meat might spoil. Another snivel is that though it can be freezing at 7am when it gets around noon the flies are out in force.

Yep, that's the 24" Van Horn 30-30 barrel. Used the 150 grain Speer Gold Dot Bonded/Blackout bullets launched at 2469 fps MV by a book charge of CFE223. The first doe was 170 yards; the 2nd was at 205-210.

You make a great point about the see-saw weather in TX. It definitely adds another dimension to game processing.

There are tons of scientific studies and data on this subject. Here's just one link:

Rigor and chemistry link

MINIMUM of 24 hours IMHO to pass rigor issues. But since you got those 2 does off the bone before that set in its not a big deal.

Rarely will I even consider meat thats not at least a week aged in some form or fashion though.

The new dentures help demand tender meat too. LOL

I like to brine deer meat, seems to make a difference.

Interesting read.

I have the same problem here in Oz. If I knock one early in the morning I usually have to get it gutted, back to camp, boned out and into the portable fridge within a couple of hours, before the flies turn out in force. If I knock one in the evening I have more time, but still have to get it packed away before turning in for the night. The only exception is where there's a coolroom or meat house, such as there is on a couple of properties I've shot on.

I usually let the meat have a few days in the fridge before freezing it. As long as I've made a good clean kill on a healthy animal the meat always seems to be tender. This has even been true of mature bucks and stags, though I don't shoot those once they're well into the rut.

If in an area where temps are usually high, it is pretty easy to make a walk in cooler.

Build a room or shed out of OSB or? the size you think you will need.Usually about 6 X 8 feet, 7 ft tall and insulate with 2"of foam board. You will need 120V power to it. Equip it with a standard sized room air conditioner which are about $300. Then order a KoolBot system to control the air conditioner. About $300.
For less than $1000 you can have a great little walk in cooler that will keep the temp 36-38 degrees to age meat in.

Get 3 hunting buddies to chip in and you get one for less than $250 each

1minute,

Yep, there is plenty of information in what is commonly called "meat science," but relatively few hunters ever read it, instead relying on hearsay from other hunters. I have heard from quite a few hunters that aging/hanging game doesn't do anything to the meat, because "deer and elk don't have the same chemicals" as beef. Which is BS.

In fact rigor mortis and aging also apply to gamebirds--which is why I eventually became puzzled about why so many Montana upland game hunters tore apart birds at the end of the day (which which had obviously gone into rigor by then), fried them up, and bitched about how tough they were. We take the innards out of both upland birds and waterfowl, then age them at least a week in a refrigerator (we have an extra in the garage).It makes a huge difference.

Perhaps the very best source for meat science on wild game is the Uniiversity of Wyoming:
https://www.uwyo.edu/anisci/facilities/meat-lab.html

I learned about thaw-shortening 40 years ago, back when I was a wildlife biology student at the U. of Montana, when it was called "cold-shortening"--and you actually had read stuff in UM's "paper library", instead of surfing the Internet.

Good point.. I've heard far too many say they hated the taste/texture of game birds.

Last time I ran mine my deer was covered in green growth by the time we got back on the weekend... I'll run a dehumidifier next time I do it. Ours is 6 inch walls, concrete floor with drain, R38 wall insulation IIRC, and OSB inside painted to be sealed and the 10x10 is WELL sealed.

Most of the guys I know clean birds, from grouse to turkeys, at the end of the day (or end of the morning.) "Cleaning" them usually means breasting them out and throwing the rest away "because they're too tough." I gut my birds right off, then hang them till they come out of rigor. Spring turkeys, warm weather, I hang them in the garage, out of the sun, with a plastic grocery bag full of ice cubes in the body cavity, the handles of the bag pulled up through the gullet and hung around the bird's neck. When the legs wiggle freely again, I pluck them. I'll brine them overnight, then smoke roast them in the Weber charcoal grill. People can't believe it's wild turkey.

I have read this, twice actually and am still not sure how to apply the information in the deep south.

I am going to kill a deer in the morning in 30-40 degree temps with afternoon temps in the 50-60 range or I am going to kill one in the afternoon with temps in the 50-60s and night time temps in the 30-40s.

It sounds like it would be best for me to get the meat off the bone immediately. Is that correct?

If I don't do that, I don't have a cooler to hang a deer in. I could probably quarter it out and get the quarters on the bone in large ice chests and keep those ice chests cool for a while. Would that work?

If not that, what's the best route.

I usually hunt Se Texas so similar temps and humidity to you. I gut and skin asap, break it down to legs and torso and keep it in an ice chest for about a week. Will drain the water and add ice every day. Seems to work fine.

Thinking back to the time I spent in Kodiak. The Blacktails I killed there were the best wild game I have ever eaten. They were mild and tender. I always had them boned out and in the backpack immediately though. I wonder if that has anything to do with it or if they are just much better table fare.

If this is only on the surface it can be removed with white vinegar and usually the meat is fine. Don't know if there is any truth to this but have heard white or green fungus/mold is not harmful but black colored ones can be, an actual growth not the usual discoloration of drying.. If it is below the surface and into the meat then it can only be cut off to salvage the meat. If there is a strong odor I give up, mild odor I will cook a test piece to see if it is salvageable. The French and other lovers of "high game" age their meat to this point intentionally.

It also sounds like your storage unit needs either some ventilation or combo dehumidifier air conditioner.

I think it has lots more to do with your method than the species. We've been de-boning whitetail right after the kill and have done so for a number of years now, and the outcome has always been superb. The meat is tender and tasty.

I honestly feel many people just don't know how to handle meat properly. A relative once gave us a few packages of venison, and I threw it out. It had a distinct gamy odor to it, and cooking did not help at all. On another occasion, when one of our kids shot his first buck, the taxidermist processed the deer for us as I was having a rough day with my health issues. When I picked it up, I opened the ice chest and was hit with a pungent/musky smell. I am not sure if he contaminated the knife with the tarsals or what happened, but it was NOT fit for human consumption. That was the last time I ever had anyone other than ourselves tend to a deer. Incidents like this make me wonder how many folks don't like wild game because of similar experiences -- and perhaps think that is how wild game actually smells/tastes.

Bobby,

The majority of hunters don't have much clue about how to take care of game.

One of the pieces of evidence we've run across over the years came from one of the members of Ducks Unlimited's Culinary Council, which was made up of professional game cooks of one sort or another. My wife Eileen was a member (primarily because she wrote both a waterfowl cookbook and upland cookbook for DU), but one of the others was a chef in California. He held game-cooking demonstrations in various venues throughout the state, where hunters could bring in their deer (or pigs, or whatever) and he'd use it for a dish. He rejected 80% of the game brought in as too ruined by field "care" to even be considered.

We moved from the Canadian border of NYS to South Carolina Low Country in July of this year. I have 5 deer tags in front of me right now. Other than the fact that our lives have been pretty busy adjusting to my wife's new job, my new job a new home, a new church and getting our younger kid through his last year of HS and into a good college, I haven't been pursuing it like I'd like to because I'm still a little uncertain as to what do do when I shoot a deer in the morning with temps in the mid 30's to high 40's and low 60's by noon. I've heard deer and hogs can be boned out, thrown on ice in a cooler, drain the water and put in new ice as necessary for a few days....guess I'll just have to jump off the deep end and give it a try.

I'd put myself in the category of those that don't have much of a clue. I do it like I was shown by others. That may or may not be the right way. What do you consider to be the best source for information on how to process my game meat given the climate I am in.

My wife's cookbook, SLICE OF THE WILD, is all about big game from field to table, including taking care of game in widely varying conditions. Quite a few experienced big game hunters have said they wish it had been published when they started out. It's available on our website, www.riflesandrecipes.com, and Eileen just started a sale that begins tomorrow, with 15% off on all her game cookbooks. If you decide to order from the website, enter Sale (spelled exactly like that) in the space marked "coupon" when you check out. Or you can phone 406-521-0273.

SLICE OF THE WILD is the all around best book on game prep and cookery that I have ever seen.

Just ordered two copies of "Slice of the Wild" for my two main hunting buddies, the others could run their own butcher shops.. Half my Christmas shopping is over. Thanks Eileen and John, Merry Christmas.

I have come a long way from hauling the deer slung across the hood of the vehicle where half would be questionable by the time you got home, but still have lots to learn. I like Eileen's scientific and diligent approach to these things, very helpful. Thanks again.

Thanks for the nice words and orders, guys.

One of the advantages of riflesandrecipes.com is Eileen is the phone-order person, so you can ask the cookbook author specific questions.

This is what we do most of the time too. Get the deer cleaned and skinned as quickly as possible. If it is cold enough (or when we used to hunt at a place where there was a walk-in cooler) then we might let it hang until it is convenient to get it quartered, or if not, it gets broken down to bone-in quarters and iced down in my big cooler. We'll leave it on ice for a few days, drained daily, and then do the final cuts and wrapping and freezing at home. Ours seems to come out quite good with that method. I think the wet aging like that has the advantage of draining the blood out of the meet, which is supposed to be one of the factors that can effect the "gamey" taste.

I do pretty much the same as others. If it is warm which it is a lot of the time I quarter and ice the animal as soon as I can. I add salt and put the drain on until there is enough metlt water to cover the meat. This cools the meat faster, draws out the blood, and slightly brine the meat. Then I add more ice and leave the drain open enough to drip. I have held meat for up to six days this way and it has always turned out good.

I think the only thing that could go wrong is if you chilled the meat too fast as it is going into rigor mortis.

A person cam build a large cooler very easy. Go to your local building supply store. Buy a few sheets of rigid foam board. 2" works well. Also buy a roll of Tyvek tape. Use hand saw to cut panels. I built mine on a pallet then used a cardboard refrigerator box to make the exterior more durable. The floor, top, sides are 2 layers of foam board. On my last antelope trip I filled two 100qt ice chests with 1 gallon/1 qt jugs of ice. At the end of the 12 day 100 degree hunt. The ice was still frozen. Shade and canvas painters tarps were used to cover/fill gaps in the box. The problem then becomes having room to haul it around on hunts. I have a 7'x16' car hauler trailer I use. Getting meat cold and keeping it cold is just a matter of being prepared.

shortfinger,

Blood content has little (I would say nothing) to do with "gamy taste." Either wet or dry aging will work fine (we have used both for many years) as long as the temperature is right.

That said, many Americans prefer their red meat comparatively bland these days, probably due to fast food. Wet aging generally results in blander meat, while dry aging concentrates the flavor, because of some liquid loss. One sources suggests as much as 5% in the first 24 hours, even in field-dressed carcasses with the hide left on--which is pretty close to what we've seen in our own experiments. (Eileen bought an 800-pound freight scale several years ago, in order to test various stuff.)

Wet-aging does indeed work--but is enhanced adding some salt. But dry aging works very well too--if you can control the temperature. Killed my biggest bull elk in early November a decade ago, after it had time to gain some weight after the rut. It was about 10 years old, but the flavor was fine. (It generally is, post-rut, when they're gaining weight.) The problem was toughness, even though the carcass was broken down after rigor mortis.

As a test, we cut about a foot-long piece of backstrap, and every couple of days cut a 1-inch slice off and fried it medium-rare. After 14 days it suddenly became much easier to slice--and far more tender when cooked. It was not as tender as a young cow or bull, but definitely quite edible,

One of the points of SLICE OF THE WILD is that wild animals are not a "consistent product," like 2-year-old, corn-fed steers. There are several ways to turn all kinds of wild game into tasty meals, due to that variation.

Interesting info. I was a commercial meat cutter for 24yrs and had never heard that. Makes sense.

I just this year hung a small buck for 2 weeks and am quite pleased with the results.It did cool slowly with the hide on and was not skinned until I butchered it.

The two biggest factors for reducing that gamey flavour you mention is to remove ALL fat from any deer you process and have it boned/filleted out. Bone dust left by a band saw cut will leave a bad taste behind on the muscle. I fillet all my big game, including moose.

Perfect. Thanks John.

I had never heard of "thaw shortening" until I read this thread and am realizing lots of years later that is exactly what happened with a spike horn meat deer that I shot once in late December. The deer lived in an apple orchard and I was really looking forward to eating that one. One tough little critter that shouldn't have been. Thanks for the explanation.

Hanging deer here in the north is always hit or miss to have the right temperature without freezing them or getting too warm. When I worked summers in the packing house, the cattle were killed, skinned, gutted, washed, cut down the spine, partially cut through the torso, shrouded, weighed and hung in a temperature controlled cooler for a couple of weeks. If that works in the meat industry, it should work for game processing as well for helping to break down the meat for consumption.

One of the guys that I hunted with this year is an EMT and we got talking about muscle tissue breaking down over time. I thought that these guys just dealt with emergency medical issues and found out that isn't always the case. When the coroner shows up, they are by themselves and need help moving a body. The EMT's are the guys who get to help and I heard the story of them needing to cut the carpet out from under a guy to even pick him up due to the jelly decomposition of the muscle. More information than you probably wanted to read, but interesting what happens with muscle fiber.

Excellent thread!

I like my back straps cooked "Black & Blue" I have converted many people to the rare side but if the fillet is also sitting in a pool of blood many would be turned off. With game it is cook it hot and fast or slow and low with no in between. I think more game is ruined by over cooking than anything else besides poor handling.

Yep!

Especially gamebirds, geese in particular. Many people roast a plucked Canada like they do a typical domestic turkey weighing more thgan twice as much. One basic rule of cooking waterfowl is the longer you cook them, the more they taste like dry liver.

This is exactly what we do. Usually 7 to 10 days, almost always have tender delicious meat. Works with wild hogs too.

There a a lot of opinions about what constitutes "gamey" taste and what causes it. So many so, it probably deserves its own thread. But, that is why I mentioned the blood in the meat as only one of the possible factors that can contribute to it. As other in this thread have mentioned, other things, like fat and bone can also contribute to it as well as what the animal was doing when the shot was taken and how it died, mostly attributed to the amount of adrenaline in the animal. Lots of opinion, discussion, speculation, and myth on that subject for sure. Proper handling of the meat as discussed here has to play a BIG role too. Good discussion here, and I find it interesting that folks have varied ways of doing it, but getting to the same point...tender delicious game meat.

I appreciate all the insight everyone has shared. I suppose we’re mostly getting them at least quartered before rigor sets in.

I grew up eating almost no other red meat at home besides deer and elk and while my mom is a great cook she always cooked deer all the way through. I discovered, probably from reading here, that it would generally be much more tender and milder flavored if cooked no more than medium. I’d say that in the last 10 years or so that has probably done more to improve our game for the table than any other factor.

I have also always heard about pheasants being tough and stringy but I have never found that to be the case. Of course after reading this thread I realize that we’ve been inadvertently aging them all these years. We always clean our birds at the end of the day, skin and gut them. But we always put them in a dedicated ice chest full of ice and water. The sloshing around in the back of the truck helps wash the carcasses and they’re usually in the ice water for 3 to 5 days by the time we’re done with our 3 day hunt and make the 13 hour drive home and then get around to butchering them up.

Of course I think some times with anything you can just get a bad one. Dad killed a huge old mulie one year that we skinned and hung for over a week before he was cut up. It was the strongest smelling and tasting venison of any I’ve ever seen and took him most of a year to cook and feed to his old bird dog. On another occasion my uncle killed an old warrior of a 7x6 bull elk which also was cooled promptly and hung for over a week. Didn’t smell or taste bad, but was akin to eating a tire it was so tough. A raghorn 5x was killed by the same uncle out on the ranch that was very strong and gamey. He watched him come at a fast trot for almost two miles before he ran within range and he rolled him with one shot.

I think some times you just get unlucky even if you do everything more or less “right”.

As I mentioned earlier, wild game animals are not a consistent "product" like commercial beef!

We have had some oddities over the decades as well--which is why Eileen has so many different cookbooks, with techniques for compensating for odd flavors and tough meat. One of the weirdest was a young cow elk I killed early in our marriage. It was perfectly healthy, and killed on a cool day in late November, with a neck shot that went through the carotid arteries as it trotted through lodgepole timber.

Had to leave it in the woods overnight, so field-dressed and left it spread-eagled on a log, to lift it enough so air could circulate, even though the night was going to be quite cool (though not really cold, at least for Montana). Went back with friends the next morning, and quarter it with the hide on, then aged the quarters for several days before butchering. It was tender, and didn't exactly taste bad--but had a mild but distinct livery flavor we've never tasted in any other elk--or for that matter, any other big game animal.

At the other extreme, I once killed a 6x6 bull on September 12th, into the rut but not very far, when they're generally fine. Instead of being gamy, it was the BLANDEST elk we've ever eaten, nice and tender but just about zero flavor. Had to use various techniques to enhance the meat.

Have also had meat from herd bulls taken in October that had a definite musky taste.

The biggest bull I've ever taken, in both body and antler, was killed in early November, when it had time to recover from the rut. The flavor was great, but had to age it TWO weeks before the backstrap became pretty chewable. But between the aging and various cooking techniques, we enjoyed eating every piece of him.

Some kinds of male deer are notorious for turning gamy during the rut, especially caribou, which can get so raunchy even sled dogs won't eat 'em. Mule deer can become a little that way as well, and fallow deer. are often worse. But with mule deer there are exceptions, such as the big 3x3 Eileen killed a few years ago toward the tail end of the rut. It had been rutting so hard there was just about zero fat on the carcass--but the meat turned out to be tender and mild.

One thing we've learned about gamy/musky flavored male animals is the flavor is often concentrated in the connective tissue between muscle groups--and can "grow" the longer the meat's in the freezer. Eileen killed a big 5x6 mule deer on November 17th one year, right out of the herd of does he was tending, and while the bigger cuts were fine, the stew meat and burger acquired a musky flavor after about six months, and he had to turn them into relatively spicy sausage.

On the other hand, we've never had an off-flavor whitetail or pronghorn buck taken during the rut, and we've taken a bunch of both in several states at various times during autumn.

Black bears are notorious for varying in flavor depending on what they're eating at the time. Have had black bear meat several people could not distinguish from cow elk meat cooked at the same time, and some that had been eating gutpiles that were barely edible.

MD, fwiw:

Sometime in the 80's the grading scale for beeves was lowered i.e. a USDA choice grade was subsequently closer to a USDA standard. The big packers worked in conjunction with the USDA.

Results: lower internal fat content, less "marbling." Easier & cheaper to be market ready. My Dad and I got the dog and pony at the time, courtesy of Monfort.

As aging was already a thing of the past, blander just got blander.

Too, I think the uniform diet fed is somehow a contributor. Think chicken. My Dad said back then mass produced chicken just didn't taste like chicken and avoided it...

I just finished cutting up the loins and a rear quarter off of an antique bull elk my dad killed last Saturday. He was huge bodied and obviously old judging by his teeth. We quartered him using the gutless method like we usually do about 30 minutes after he died. Hung everything in the barn in the shade but with the door open so air could circulate. Temps have been in the teens or 20s at night and up into the 40s to low 60s during the day. Everything has a good hard crust and no mold.

I was worried a little since the first backstrap I cut into steaks had a faint “bully” smell. Hard to describe but just a little bit musky. But I put one steak in a blazing hot skillet with a pat of butter and a little salt and pepper turning it once and pulling it out to rest for a couple minutes at medium rare. Turns out I was needlessly worried as it was great, a little tougher than the small bull I killed this fall but pretty tender and not the least bit gamey.

Now the only problem is that this bull is a full %30 larger than the raghorn I killed last month. We’re about 1/3 done cutting and wrapping and it seems like it’s going to take forever! I’m sure we’ll manage though.

On a semi related side note, my Grandad gave me an old meat slicer last month. It’s a giant old US Berkel from the 1940s. Was in a grocery store here and my great uncle bought it after they closed down and used it in his cafe. When he sold the cafe he gave it to Grandad to use cutting up deer and elk. It’s been sitting in my grandparents’ garage unused for at least 20 years. He cleaned it up and gave it to me since my wife and I are the only ones who do our own meat cutting.

I used the built in sharpener to touch up the wheel and put it to work on a deer the day after I got it moved to the house. Holy moly why did I wait so long to get one of these? I can steak up a loin in 5 minutes and the steaks are all the same thickness. The carriage is big enough to fit big muscles off elk hindquarters and it really makes cutting consistent sized steaks a snap.

Huntsman,
Why do you like the Pack Wheel and Badger better?

If alone, I would think the two wheels of the Neet Cart would be better for over logs?

Think motorized versus non-motorized. After talking with huntsman, I'd like to get one, but need to pick up a lot more cans to be able to.

I'll second the thumbs-up for the Pack Wheel (non-motorized in my case). I used one to pack out a whole mule deer buck as well as elk quarters on different occasions this season and was very impressed. If you hunt where there's a lot of old sage brush, a one-wheel cart is a godsend.

If you want to really delve deep into meat science Google Warner-Bratzler shear test....

There’s no doubt that meat handling post kill will affect meat quality. I’ve always felt the most important aspect is what happens immediately after the shot. Google-fu dark cutter....the entire reason we stun animals with a captive bolt and immediately follow with the blood letting.

Without getting too technical, mainly because it’s been far too many years since my meats lab....the struggle that follows the shot can lead to anaerobic muscle metabolism that leads to lactic acid production and a whole host of muscle metabolism faux pas that will lead to a dark, tough hunk of meat.

If you think back many of these tender memories are from the proverbial bang flop from a shot that takes out some part of the central nervous system. While I’ll never advocate the neck or head shot for the annual get something with horns and put Bessy away hunter, a higher shoulder shot that takes out the spine leads to FARR better meat than the pop the lungs and head around the ridge for the Easter egg hunt. The ugly kills leave a bad taste in your mouth for a reason.

BeardHunter,

My wife and I have not found that to be any sort of rule, in fact many of the very best-eating and tender animals we've taken over the years have been killed with traditional lung shots--sometimes with arrows.

Stared writing about the shear test when still in college, when I was a biology major and we still had to find stuff in the library, instead of Googling. Among other places, the U. of Wyoming continues to do considerable research in meat science, including both domestic and game meat. Ran across one of their shear tests comparing the tenderness of domestic lamb and pronghorns way back when--and it turned out pronghorns tested tenderer, which was eventually determined to be due to a relative lack of "organized collagen" even in the meat of mature bucks. Which is why pronghorn meat doesn't require much aging at all.

Very interesting. Wyoming had/has a great meats program. WVU was lacking, and had just started it back after I spent a summer stripping the meats lab and cleaning it top to bottom. I always was curious if anyone was looking at game meat but never took the time in the card files to see.

I’ll admit I’m totally ignorant to anything other than whitetail, Bear, and the occasional coon. My experience with whitetail was probably more related to diet. The ones scrabbling in the clearcuts and ridge tops of WV were always tough. The ones that live off our beans and corn in Pennsylvania have by far been better......and the ones off a hound chase in the pine thickets of Virginia are the absolute toughest. Pack it in cow [bleep] and bake at 350 for a day, knock off the cow [bleep] and eat that.

We have hunted whitetails in 12 states and provinces in North America, in the West from Alberta, Canada down to Sonora, Mexico, and in he East from West Virginia to Iowa to Arkansas and Alabama. All have tasted good, even though they were shot both in the CNS and heart-lungs, but we none were chased with dogs. My friends in West Virginia say that deer eating white oak acorns taste better than those eating red oak acorns, but we don't have enough experience to say one way or the other.

As examples of lung-shot animals that were outstanding, two were the very best all-around eating of that species we've ever gotten. One was a mature but not old mule deer buck my wife shot with a .270 Winchester, near our little Montana town, and the other a 5x5 bull elk I killed on opening day of the Montana bow season in early September. There have been other mule deer and elk that were very good too, but those were so fine we tended to reserve their meat for special occasions.

Got a copy of “Slice of the Wild” for Christmas. Lots of good information and recipes in there.

And I just ordered a copy of it for the wife and me, along with Sausage Season and three of John's handloading books. I am looking forward to receiving them all!

I just killed a Coues Deer on the ridge up behind my house in Tucson three days ago. He's been hanging in the carport since, and I plan to butcher tomorrow. It got to over 60 on the day of the kill but has only gotten into the high 40's in the days since and it gets to freezing overnight. I skinned him immediately and have let him hang in just a loose sheet to keep off bugs overnight, and then I slip a cold sleeping bag around him in the morning to keep him cool through the day, remove it at sundown. He dropped instantly from a high shoulder shot, and all the whitetails I have been glassing since the season started two weeks ago have been eating barrel cactus fruit almost exclusively - I'm interested to see how that's going to taste. I have good hopes.

I drew a Nevada Pronghorn tag back in '94 and killed my buck on the first morning of a 5 day planned solo camping trip. It was too nice a country to come home to Las Vegas from so I did the sleeping bag trick then too (I had brought and extra with me). It would get into the 30's overnight and up to 70s in the day. Each evening, when I would get back to camp from my hiking and playing around with my .22 Hornet, etc, I'd go to the lone juniper I hung him in and slip my arm down into that sleeping bag around him before I pulled it off for the night. It would be so cold inside that mummy bag it was amazing. I boned him out on the last day of the trip and brought him home in a couple coolers - the meat was great. This trick might help folks in the early seasons out west where we get those 35-40 degree swings through the day - that's why I got so wordy on it.

Thanks for all the good information on this thread.
Rex

Rex,

Congratulations on the Coues buck! I have only eaten a few, but all have tasted very good (which overall seems to be true of most desert game).

Also sounds like perfect aging conditions, with the sleeping-bag technique. We have even used it here in Montana during the same sort of conditions.

Thanks for your order; it will be heading your way tomorrow.

John

For the last ten years or so I gut my deer right away and put the whole deer with hide on in a large stainless cooler. I have a shelf that keeps the deer off the bottom so it can’t sit in water or blood. I use several dozen half gal paper milk cartons of block ice on top of the deer, rotate them to freezer as needed. I keep a close eye on it to make sure temps are less than 36*.

After 10-14 days I’ll hang it, skin it, debone and vac seal. The meat stays clean and never gets wet or warm.

This has been the best way for me to have the most tender and tastiest venison.

We quarter our deer as fast as we can. It is rarely cool enough down here to let an animal hang. To damn hot in Texas!