...but not forgotten.

Some time back a friend passed on and his wife was left to dispose of his stuff, a rather substantial pile of it, truth be known. Included was a pile of guns and shooting accoutrements that only a loony would possess such as an original 1873 Springfield Trapdoor. And stuff piled upon stuff. So much so that aside from the stuff in the house several firearms were located in the barn, buried amidst another pile of reloading stuff. Helping her sort it all out was a melancholy experience to say the least.

I took a small bit of it off her hands and others in this loony town scarfed up the rest, pronto. Good end I'd say. So, not to turn this into a long winded exercise of trivia, I had occasion yesterday to run some brass thru the cleaner, and that included a box picked up in the course of affairs. The question that comes to mind is this: How old does brass have to be before it's no longer useful? For the youngsters among us, note the price on the box in the upper right quadrant. Back before price labels were invented? I dunno...




Another oddity came to light in the course of case prep was that two Lyman manuals listed different trim-to-length dimensions, and they were not "slightly" different. Nope, they varied by .043".

Soo..... do you have something to use these in??????
Patiently waiting for the Rest of the Story.

As a matter of fact, yes indeed.





Best I can do offhand at 100. So far.

Right decent "string measure".

I have an Winchester 94 in 38-55 and some old brass.The only thing I have ever run across about brass being too old was on a 38-40 that I had some ballon head cases .

As the the 38-55 there are two case lengths. 2.082 and 2.125. The shorter for the older lever guns and the longer for the single shot types,and newer chamberings.Some being the old Ballard rifles.I have some old commercial ammo in3 8-55 ,but not the original boxes sit came in. All of it 1/2 jacket flat nose soft point.Some Winchester,some Remington. At present I don't recall which it was but some of it was 2.082 and some was 2.125 long. Graff & Sons list the two lengths in their catalog.

Thanks. Would have been better if that dang rattlebug hadn't started gnawing on my ankle for shot #8.

Silly question. Forget who he is?

Mornin' Dan,

Always enjoy your posts. I have some .30 Army aka .30-40 Krag brass that my father purchased around 1962 for my first "real" rifle, a Bannerman Krag. Old Winchester 220 grain "full patch" from the 1920s' or so. Little over 50 rds remain of the original 100 that I still use with cast bullets. I'm getting some small cracks at the shoulders and will probably retire these due to the sentimental value. I have some other odds and sods of .30 Army brass, Rem-UMC, in like condition that will also be retired.

When I got out of the Army in 71' I had Dan King install a new Douglas barrel, Lyman banded ramp front with Redfield Sourdough post, and a Lyman 48 receiver sight. I found a cut down Krag stock to replace the Bannerman-ized 03' stock. The old gal still makes meat.

AJ

187th AHC Tay Ninh RVN 1970-71

That's a absolutely beautiful rifle you have there, DD. Stunning.

I had some .250-3000 ammo of similar vintage that I shot in my 99RS. Stopped shooting that ammo when one case blew a hole in the side just above the base. Brass over time develops embrittlement, usually this manifests itself as neck splits or shoulder splits but not always as in my case.

Thank you sir. I had to take a step back first time I laid eyes on it myself.

FWIW, it was purchased from the fellow that did the build and it remains in as new condition. He shot reduced charge smokeless exclusively. The target posted above was shot with Swiss 1.5FG and a Mos 300 grain greaser w/o use of the breech seater.

Wow,great rifle.Congrats on your find.

I knew it. But is the optic on that Mil's or MOA?????
And By the Way, what is that tool looking thing in the middle of the photo spread? I bet there is more to the "Rest of the Story......."

Yes it is!!!

Scope is a Lyman Targetspot, 8x if I recall correctly. Old school with a clear image still works. Item you refer to (I think) is a breech seater. I haven't fooled with that so far.....one of these days ....maybe.

I shot some Winchester Lubaloy 7x57 ammunition a couple years ago that was the same era as the stuff in your picture. It was the only very old rifle ammo I've ever had a problem with. Case splits on the side, above the head as previously mentioned. In my situation the powder in the cases had deteriorated, becoming acidic and corrosive. I'd suggest pulling a couple bullets and checking inside. If case inside and bullet base is not green, you should have safe ammo.

I concur with your thoughts. Actually started with a box and a half and junked 10 right off the bat due to corrosion. All cases save one had been fired, so I pulled the bullet and popped the primer out. I was surprised by how well they cleaned up. All but a couple have primer pockets as clean and shiny as new brass.

With any luck they'll last another 50 years.

Dang! Congratulations on that cool rifle! You surely don’t see one like that very often.

AJ,

be nice to see a picture of your rifle, sounds like a lot of history

As too your question on usefullness of "old" brass, I`ve used 06 stuff that was seated in "39". I annealed it first, but no problems with it.
Sure wasn`t the best quality tho.

I watched a High Wall auctioned off yesterday. 1892 manufacture date, .38-55, Special Order gun: heavy #4 barrel, vernier tang sight + spirit level front sight, gorgeous wood, sporting rifle stock, minty bore. Extremely nice condition. I was a bidder until the bidding shot past $2K (knowing full well it would go a lot higher, but, well, ya gotta get your 2¢ in). I sat back and watched the show which ended at an even $8K. Good theater!

Good stuff at auctions nearly always results in a bidding war between individuals who take the item far beyond what it may actually be worth presently or in the future. This is fueled almost always by egos and the refusal to let the item go to the competing bidder. Agreed it is good theater.

Have a newer version of that in .45-70. Pretty sure I won't outlive the brass in that one, much as I'd like to. Shoots fair most days. Tang sight and has a scope but I've not seen the need to use it to date. Load for the target below was a Lyman 457125, 30:1 alloy w/SPG lube, 60 grains of Swiss 1.5fg over 6 grains of SR4759 and a CCI LR primer. Haven't a clue what the market value might be, but I suspect the investment is secure. It was built in 2018.

I like your wood.

I polish it now and then.

Just like my brass.

Dan,

You asked how long before brass was no longer good. I cannot answer that question but I believe the ammo used on this cow moose had to be over 75 years old. Western acquired Winchester in 1931 I think and I believe merged the Winchester/Western ammunition name not long after that. I don't know for sure what year the boxes started being labeled Winchester/Western.

I had four boxes of the old Western ammo for the 8x56 Mannlicher Schoenauer. We had a couple college kids living with us while they finished school. The sister got drawn for a cow tag and chose my 8x56 out all the rifles for her hunt. I got her plenty of trigger time with some reloads and used a partial box of the old stuff to verify it would fire and to establish zero. It did the job just fine. The old 200 grain round noses both found their way to the off side and were classic mushrooms. I've probably fired 20 of the 70 rounds I had. No failures and no split necks.

Mart

Run her chamfer tool around. The mouth and usually you can feel it it's brittle. I have some ww1 06 brass that is still good. Was never fired and was pulled apart to fix the mercury problem.

mart, beautiful rifle, the moose isn't half bad either! How old is the Western ammunition?
ure like that colorful box.

WWI ammo was loaded with corrosive primers that wouldn't effect the brass. The mercuric primers in common use 15-20 years before were the culprits.

Mart, that's a beauty of a rifle, thanks for the info....old is gold now and then.

I can't say for sure because I don't know when the Winchester/Western name started appearing on the ammo boxes. I know Western acquired Winchester in 1931 and I think in 1935 they may have merged the names but I don't know enough about the ammo history to say for sure. If that's true, then the ammo has to be over 80 years old. Maybe someone with more knowledge of the Western Ammunition history could weigh in.