I'm about to send Jess at JES a couple 1903 Springfield sporters with original military barrels, one to become a 9.3x62 and the other a 338-06. I had a nice phone conversation with Jess yesterday and he answered all my questions, but I need some opinions from John and whomever else has had JES do a rebore for them:
A three groove barrel is standard - that's what you get for $250, which sounds to me like a smoking deal. For a 4 groove barrel, it's an extra $25. That's cheap enough that I'd pay it if it had any benefit, but Jess basically says it doesn't - no improvement over a 3-groove. It's just an option for those who can't abide the three groove for some reason. Said it wouldn't hurt anything either, and he'd be happy to do it for the extra $25.

What say you? Of those who have had a JES rebore, did you go for the standard 3-groove or more. and why, for either option you chose.
For those who got a 3-groove - have any of you been disappointed? I've heard nothing but glowing reports on JES' work but I am not sure whether it's the 3 or 4-groove barrels folks are bragging on.

Thanks in advance for the opinions and experiences.
Rex

I had JES rebore a Marlin 336 30-30 to 38-55. Went with the 3 groove on his recommendation and only shoot cast bullets in it. It's been far and away the easiest project I've done. Bore looks really nice with the borescope and it shoots great.

Have only shot the 3-groove JES rebores, which worked very well.

I have a 338-06 JES rebore, 3 groove.

Accurate with 4 different bullets I tried. Slow tho, cant get anywhere near book velocity. Throat was cut long, may have something to do with it.

Its my elk in the timber gun, so a little loss of fps is really no big deal.

I just (3 weeks ago) got back a JES rebore in 9,3x62. It was Ruger Guide gun in 30-06. It wouldn’t hit the side of a barn at 100yds. Jess said the 3 groove would be all I need. I remounted the scope when it came back and used cheap PPU 285gr to get it back on target. It shot 1.5 or less right off the bat. As soon as it warms up I’ll be trying JB’s 250gr Accubond load.

Thanks very much for the replies fellas. Maybe I will still hear from some more JES customers but it sounds to me like I can save myself $50 and just go with the 3-groove for these two builds. I do wonder a bit about the throats. Hawk Driver (fellow military pilot and Arizonan?) says his .338 throat is long. JES alluded to his 9.3x62 reamer having a long throat too. On the 9.3, I get an extra .100" of magazine length with the Springfield mag versus the original military Mauser for which this round was designed, so if the throat is a touch on the long side that might not be too bad. The same may not apply on the .338. Jess said I can send a dummy round for throating but I don't know that a custom throat is really happens - I think they just make sure your dummy round will fit, versus sneaking up on a perfect match to the lead.
Anybody know any different?

Thanks,
Rex

I'm going to send him a 12/22 HP O/U barrel set off one of my Valmet 300 series guns to see if he can bore it to 35-30. Since the HP is based on the 30-30 case, it should be easy enough, and the extractor won't require modification. The good thing about this Valmet model is the ability to regulate the barrels with a flat head screwdriver.

He'll also get a Husqvarna 8X57 on an FN 98 action to become a 9.3X62.

I've never had anything rebored yet. MileHighShooter has had a couple of barrels re-bored but not sure who did it for him. I think he's been very satisfied I believe.

I had a stainless Remington M700 .270 rebored to .35 Whelen 3-groove. Shoots great.

Oddly enough over the years I have stumbled on two pre-64 270's with rusted bores, No three grooves though, one is now a 4 groove 338-06 in a Pacific Research stock, the other a 35 Whelen riding in a McWoody, I don't know what 'Ol Jess, does other than finding new clean steel to work with, but damn, both those rifles are shooters, I remain a highly satisfied customer.

Jess rebored a remington 7600 into a 35 Whelen for me. 3 groove, 1:10" twist. Shoots 4 different factory loads into a inch.....from 225 grain to 310 grain. I couldn't be happier with it.

Andy3

I have not had JES do a rebore for me yet but have one planned to go to him for the Whelen treatment. The only reason I am debating on a 4 groove instead of a 3 groove is that as a frequent cast bullet shooter, it would be easier to measure bore slugs across the opposing grooves of a 4 groove....

Other than that, I have no aversion to a 3 groove.

To me this is a no brainer, pay the extra $25 for a 4 groove. A bargain at that price

All 3 grooves here, a Whelen, 35 Newton and 375 Improved. All took some lapping to smooth up, but they are all great shooting rifles. I’d do another in a heartbeat. Cannot beat them for the money.

Haven't had any rifles rebarreled though if I still had an 03A3, I'd be tempted to make a .40 Whelen.

I heard some place that a lot of 03A3s had 2-groove barrels and shot very accurately. If JES says 3-groove, I'd go with that.

Interesting thread - I hadn’t thought about what grooves were being done after a re-bore...

Had JES rebore a Tikka .270 to 35 Whelen it put 3 shots under 1" all day long.

Also had a Kimber Montana .308 rebored to 35 WIN it shot .225 TSX at 2500 fps under 1.4" at 100 with the first load I tried, I had no time to try any other loads so I used that load for hunting. Hope to get time to try some other loads in the 35.

both were 3 grooves

Anyone ever have him rebore a 1917? Clasic reboring claims his (Clasic) military barrel rebores are a 50-50 chance of coming out well.

Well now, you've left out the most important part of the answer to my original question...WHY?
Why is it a no brainer to pay the extra $25 for the 4-groove barrel versus the 3-groove?

[EDIT: I should add, this is coming from a guy who is kind of inclined to do so - I just want to be smart about it and not do dumb stuff for no good reason]

Thanks!
Rex

Good point. OTOH, a 3 groove might shoot cast bullets better.

Coincidentally, I shot my Ruger RSM 450 Rigby today. It was originally a 416 Rigby, rebored to 0.458” by JES, with 4 grooves. The rifle is accurate, with normal MVs for the loads used.

This is the second rifle I’ve had JES rebore. The other is a Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan rebored from 375 to 404 (0.423”).

In both cases, Jesse was fast, communicative and delivered excellent quality at a very reasonable price. Recommend JES.

Those 3 groove jess rebores pick up velocity. I had at least 60-70 fps increase from his rebores when compared to 4-5 groove factory barrels of equal length.

His rebores polish up nicely too, if you clean with abrasives like kg-2 on an oversized bore snake every 3-5 rounds. Leave the kg2 in the bore and continue firing. 100 rounds later, fouling with pure copper bullets will be significantly reduced.

If you ask him, he'll cut a front sight dovetail free of charge.

He apprenticed with an old school barrel guy, and assumed the tooling. A far more experienced "old timer" process, than these idiot millennials operating mass production machinery like the above mentioned ruger guide gun in 30-06. Jess fixed "state of the art" with "dated" processes.

Thanks for that information. That's a reason to choose the 3-groove.
I've not used the KG-2 before but just looked it up and it seems very highly reviewed.
What do others here think of the suggestions from mainer_in_ak? Anything to add on the technique?
Thanks,
Rex

I haven’t had the need to lap any of the four he’s done for me. They never fouled badly to begin with and DBC takes care of that plenty easy. Jess does great work.

That a fact. I shoot and clean with JBs paste and around 20-25 I clean to steel, DBC and call it a day. Works well for me.

In a week I will be sending him a new Ruger SS Hawkeye '06, to be bored to 9.3.

I'm going 5 groove 1-10 twist.

Hopefully he can chamber it to the dummy round that I send him that fits the magazine.

What's your thinking, 5 groove vs. 3 or 4?

Just curious.

DF

do you think he can work on carbine 7600 35 whelen to become a 9.3x62 despite the small differece and open sights?

What would be a good rebore of a .308 Win in a Ruger RSI bolt action?

A .358 of course! I spoke with him today about doing a .416 but he said he’s not set up for those.

I have a Marlin 30AS JES rebored to 356 Winchester. He said there isn’t much difference with 3,4 or 5, but I went with 5. I prefer odd number as I read an explanation why when I did it but cannot remember why. He does great work, fast and reasonable.

I've really been toying with the idea of sending him a Rem 700 youth with a factory 20in tube and having him rebore to 338 Federal. keep it short and light and handy. Restocked of course..... Low power scope..... All weather finish....

My first response is 358W as well, but barrels on the Ruger RSI bolt actions are very thin. I doubt there is enough meat there to bore it out to .358. If you send it to him you may want to plan to have a backup caliber in mind like a .338 Federal. Or talk it through with him first before sending the rifle to him.

4 groove/ 3 groove? Pac-nor literally built his reputation with 3 groove. Lilja is building 3 groove, the name speaks for itself. Calm down, you're building a hunting rifle.

Anyone had a 350 Legend done? I'd like to p/u a used Tikka 223 and have it chambered to the 350.

I think that's not something he would try. The bores are too close.

Ever try to drill out a hole already there with a bit just a little bigger? BIND...SNAP...

The bore/land diameter on the 9.3 is right at .358, the same as the groove diameter for the 35 Whelen. Might not work but it wouldn't hurt to ask though, they take phone calls if they can and they call you back if you have to leave a voicemail.
Would you consider a .375 Whelen? I know Jess does those, as well as the .400.

Cheers,
Rex

Bruce,

I talked to more than one reborer when doing an article on the subject a couple years ago. The primary reason for not reboring to a only slightly larger caliber is not just reaming correctly, but because so many rebore jobs these days are requested for button-rifled and hammer-forger barrels. The rifling of both introduces differential stresses into the steel, which makes reaming AND cut-rifling to a slightly larger caliber very difficult to do consistently--which is why most will only rebore to a caliber somewhat larger than "barely" more than the original.

When Cliff LaBounty was still working, he developed a method of lapping the lands and cutting the original grooves a little deeper. But that meant the rifling twist would have to be the same as the original barrel. This meant a 1-16 twist .35 caliber barrel increased to 9.3mm would also have to use a 1-16 twist, not so good with 9.3.

If the article was published I’d be very curious to know where. I’d really like to give it a read.

I had JES do a 3 groove 35 Whelen for me. Very accurate. I'd do 3 groove again.

I just shot my shortened Marlin 336CS that JES re-bored to 35-30, for the fist time with a scope, yesterday. It has 3 grooves, and I can't tell the difference as far as accuracy. I'm still working up loads, but so-far, I'm convinced I did the right thing listening to his suggestion. I could easily hit a squirrel in the head at 50 yards, so I can't ask much more from a lever action 17" barreled Marlin. Since I'm hunting deer with it in dense woods, my confidence has gone pretty high, and I'm not even through developing a load for it at this point.

Thanks so much! This and the previous reply from MooseMike were exactly the answers to my original question about the choice of barrel grooves I was hoping for.
I am psyched to get these two rebores back and kind of casting about amongst my collection for other potential rebore candidates.
Thanks again friends,
Rex

[EDIT: That said, I am still very interested if anyone can provide good reasons to choose 4 or 5 grooves over the standard 3]

One more thing to note.....it seems easier to clean , too, in case you wondered....

A previous respondent mentioned that his tended not to foul much at all too. Good to hear.
Cheers,
Rex

Very happy with my rebore 270 to 338.06 3 groove, Good workmanship and excellent service.

I sent my 2nd 30-06 off to JES yesterday. The first one was a matte finish Remington 7600, and he rebored it into a 3 groove, 1:10" twist, 35 Whelen. All loads in this rifle shoot a skinny inch at 100 yards.

The one I sent yesterday is a Ruger stainless 77 mark II, boat paddle, with factory sights. It too will be a 3 groove, 1:10" twist, 35 Whelen. I have a Leupold 2.5x8 b&c that I mounted in Warne QR rings. The scope will be sighted in with 225 grain TBBC loads, and the iron sights will sighted with 310 grain Woodleighs, probably 1" high at 50 yards.

This may be the ultimate OTC Idaho elk rifle? I bet it will be fun finding out, if it is!

Andy3

Now you guys have me looking for a appropriate '06 to send off. I've been a lurking 35 Whelen fanboy for a while, and now I'm in the looking stage. I'm tempted to have my m1917 sporter sent to JES, but I'm torn because it has the original 5 groove 30-06 barrel that has been turned down.

I think you’re going to really dig that Ruger!

Wish they would mill old caliber stamp and restamp caliber to make it look professional. IMHO

JES does restamp caliber

I have an outfit here in Tucson that will engrave the caliber on the barrel, and since neither of the Springfields I am sending Jess have any markings on the barrel, I asked him if he'd just leave off the caliber markings so I can have them nicely engraved. He said no problem. There is apparently no legal requirement to "X" out the previous caliber and stamp the new one. And at $250, I don't expect them to do a lot of fancy stuff on the outside of the barrel.
So if you want to do something on your own to "pretty up" the marking of your new caliber just let Jess know and he will leave it alone.
I still haven't mailed him the rifles because I am trying to find some 286 grain 9.3 partitions to make up a dummy round at 3.70" for throating. Anybody got one they would send me? I can trade about 6 other types of 9.3 bullets for a couple 286 Partitions.

Cheers,
Rex

How do you mail him the bolt guns? Do you take the stock off, or does he want the entire rifle? I've only sent him one gun, and it was the Marlin 336 I posted about. Just wondering for future projects.

I sent JES a Tikka T3 30-06 for reboring to 35 Whelen. I went with a 3 groove 1/14. It has shot well with loads from 200 gr. Hornadys to 250 gr. Coreloks. I would do that set up again.

I asked him if he needed the rifle with the stock and for the Tikka he said yes.

I have asked Jess a number of questions, but one I still need to is do they test fire the rifles after the rebore. He already told me he just needs the barreled action on my Springfields, but if they don't test fire then all I would have to send him is the stripped bolt and barreled action. So I'll ask that tomorrow and post back.

Too late to edit that but I meant 3.370" for my loaded round length, not 3.70" Sorry for the typo and probably looking like a moron. Looking to use all of the 3.4" magazine on my Springfield rather than be constrained to the 3.3" magazine of the military '98 Mauser the round was designed for.

Yesterday I sent Jes a Ruger SS Hawkeye '06 that will be re-bored to 9.3x62. I went with the 4 groove 1-10 twist.

Someone wanna buy a 700 CDL SF 6mm Rem. before I send it to JES?

I have a 03 30-06 Springfield converted, fajen stock, Timney trigger, Leupold 2x7 scope. Shoots good, had it for 60 yrs. Be idea rifle for someone to rebore. Would sell for best offer. Anyone interested pm me and I’ll send some pictures.

He tests fires. He told me what 35 Whelen load shot well in my rebore. It was Hornady Superformance.

He just wants the barreled action. At least that's all he wanted from me. Yet he still test fired it. Probably because I sent him a Win model 70 and he already had a stock lying around.

I bought an older Winchester 670 in 30-06 for a very low price and sent it to JES for a re-bore to 35 Whelen. A 2-7X Vortex scope was mounted and it shoots 2 inch groups at 100 yards for me. The muzzle was MagnaPorted to eliminate muzzle jump. Ammo is a bit pricey but I really wanted a 35 Whelen and could not find one.

Sherwood

Yes.

I had JES rebore a Howa miniaction in 300 blk out to 350 legend. Ammo feeds well and the gun shoots very well.

I purchased two guns that had been rebored by JES. I have to say they look neat and clean. One 358 Winchester from 243 and one 9.3X62 from 30-06. I am planning on a Ruger rebore 308 to 358 Winchester so I have a 358 F/S. Maybe my Interarms Mark X F/S 243 to 400 Whelen. Good luck and Be Well, Rustyzipper.

Thanks Mako235. I'll keep searching for a cheap Tikka 223.

Has anyone sent any work to Dan Pedersen at Classic Barrel and Gunworks? I sent him a Classic Stainless Model 70 last week upon learning he can re-educate a 7mm mag to .416 Taylor. Thankfully there's enough meat on the barrel for a .416 at my favorite length for around here, 20.5". Dan seems to do top notch work as well, but up to this point I've used JES since he's been able to do what I needed for about a hundred bucks less. Pederson does a much greater variety of bore diameters however.

If I was going to spend that much on a barrel, it would be a brand new custom stainless item, not a rebore of a factory barrel and it's questionable steel quality.

Classic campfire perspective, you seem to have no actual experience with the issue in question but disparage it while at the same time making a wildly inaccurate statement about another thing: “questionable steel quality”. Get real.

Exactly....If the steel quality was questionable, JES wouldn't do the job.

I'm a machinist and work with different kinds of steel all day, so I know exactly what questionable steel is. Care to tell me what kind of "Chromoly" that Savage makes their barrels out of? Because I can tell you it cuts like butter. And why would someone spend between 3-400 dollars on a rebore when a new barrel from a custom maker cost just as much?

You mean $225 for a rebore. We are talking JES here.

Let's say that you have a nice rifle with a quarter rib intergal on the barrel, a rebore would cost about a 1/4 of replacing the barrel

The barrel might cost that much but the gunsmith will cost that much also to chamber and fit. Ed k

Yep, and no new inletting or re-bedding will be needed either. It's $250 all-in total cost and you have yourself a "new rifle" with a cut-rifled barrel. The two Springfields I'm sending Jess have as good a steel as Uncle Sugar could get back in the day, and a century of stress-relief piled on top of that. Let's just say I'll take my chances for what he's charging. There are an awful lot of very satisfied customers out there.

Cheers,
Rex

It’s $225-$250 for a rebore and now the rifle shoots another caliber.

Spend $300-400 for a new barrel and you have a barrel. You need to send even more now to have a gunsmith install the new barrel.

Some folks don’t have the spare cash to have a custom rifle built whenever they want to try a new caliber.

The kind that shoots MOA out of the box, on a rifle you can buy at Wal Mart for under $400 with a 3x9 scope already on it.
That based on my best friend's new 6.5CM and a lot of other great reports on the Savage rifles.
Just Sayin'

Do they "X" out or mill it down and restamp?

Is there any reason not to rebore a Winchester model 670 .243 into a 358 win. or 338 fed ? I have an itch for one and leaning toward the 338 federal.

I believe they just X out or stamp over existing numbers,

Yes, that's the case.

They X out

I earlier posted though that if the customer wants to take care of that re-marking themselves, Jess will leave it alone. There are no markings on my Springfields' barrels and there's an outfit in town that does nice engraving that I'm going to have mark the caliber. Jess said that's fine and he won't mark the barrel.
If someone wanted to have "30-06" milled off and "35 Whelen" (or whatever) re-engraved on that new pretty flat, I'm sure he'd let you do that - why not, saves him work and time.
I just did an image search to try to find an example and couldn't, though I have seen it done and it can really turn out pretty nice.

I think the general rule of thumb is to preserve at least .100" of barrel thickness around the bore. So for a .358, your .243 barrel needs to be at least .558 at the muzzle. That's about as small as anybody sells - matches the featherweight profile, so odds are you're fine - just take a measurement. If yours is a touch too small the .338 would probably still work.

Cheers,
Rex

Thank you

Update on the JES/35 Whelen rebore....

I got the rifle back, in 20 days....door to door. I found a hawkeye synthetic stock to replace the original boat paddle. That added a few days to getting it sighted in.

I finally got to shoot it yesterday. Iron sights put the 310 grain woodleighs into an inch at 50 yards, and the 225 grain tbbc's went into a "skinny" inch at 100. I confirmed the 225 grain impacts out to 400 yards, with the 2.5x8 leupold/B&C reticle, on small rocks. Both loads are factory loads.

Mind you, the stock is factory, and not bedded. I did a little work on the trigger, but that's all.

The rifle shoots great, with no sign of pressure, or any other marks on the brass. To the eye, the bore looks slick and bright, with no sign of copper.....the patched cleaning rod pushed through nice and smooth (closest thing I have to a bore scope!!!). Another recommendation for JES!


Andy3

Good deal. Sounds like mine might have been in line right behind yours. I had him re-bore a 336 , 30-30 to a 38-55 and just got it back Wednesday. I've been using all this down time to load me up some rounds, and I can't wait until things dry out so I can go shoot it! I think I ordered everything just in time as my rifle and reloading supplies came in within 2 days of each other. Now you have me wanting a .35 Whelen!

I don't think SU35s turned out as well as yours did.

Judging from the groups SU35 is shooting (after not doing anything to the barrel at all, despite plenty of suggestions from the Campfire), his rebore turned out very well.

Yeah.....that's what it looked like to me.

I've only taken the 338-06 to the range once, and the 9.3 hasn't been yet, but from my sample size of one, SU35's turned out WAY better than mine. I free floated the 19" barrel of the 338-06 and the action was previously glass bedded. For the first outing, I loaded 9 of the most accurate loads that I have fired in my other 24" barreled 338-06, and shot them into 3 groups. It was pretty horrid. But I have high hopes for the rifle as the bore does look really good. The 9 I alluded to were 225 Hornady's loaded over a medium charge of PP 2000-MR (.75" in the other rifle). They were going about 2440 FPS from the carbine and printed 3-to-5" groups. I followed up with 8 cast fireform loads with the 270 NEI RN over 14 gr Unique, with the bullets a jam fit in the lands. These bullets were going about 1250 FPS and interestingly landed in the same POI as the 225 Hornadys at 2440. I consider this a good sign. Also, the cast were more accurate. I should also add it was an unknown scope - an old Leupold 4X that I had not previously mounted - I could swap that out to if I don't see better results soon but those things are pretty darn rugged and it's odd for them to fail.
The Hornadys had to be seated .060 off the lands due to the throat length versus magazine length. I can seat the 210 Partition right up to the lands as well as the 200 Speer. Next time out I'll be trying one of those to see if getting the bullet closer to the lands helps. It's a real good looking bore and ought to do a lot better than that first trip out, so we'll see (acknowledging all that's been said about how the looks through the bore scope doesn't predict a thing).
Cheers,
Rex

My .35 Whelen rebore came back yesterday.

Despite my best efforts, contrary to all discussions and my instructions my barrel WAS over stamped. Which doesn’t look very good on a previously Cerakoted barrel

USPS also manhandled the package and my rifle tore through the box with the picatinny rail dinged.

I’m hoping it shoots because ultimately, that’s what really matters.

That is really frustrating Tannhauser and I genuinely feel your pain because I experienced the same thing - did everything I thought I could to make sure there were no stampings on the barrel but it happened anyway.
Jess had confirmed to me on the phone that there is no legal requirement for him to stamp them and he is happy to leave off the stamp if so instructed. I am guessing there is a failure to communicate somewhere in the workflow, and maybe an apprentice is doing the stamping. Regardless, I don't think Jess visits this forum so it is probably worth giving him some direct feedback on the issue so he can take whatever steps are needed to make it possible for barrels to not get stamped if customers don't want them stamped. He likely doesn't know there's even a problem.
My 9.3x62 is averaging 0.65 MOA so far, (21 rounds, one trip to the range) so I am not going to be complaining terribly loud at getting this for $250. And I remain hopeful that once I bed the 338-06 the same way I bedded the 9.3 it'll tighten up too. But for Pete's sake it ought to be easy enough to just have the markings left off!.
Cheers,
Rex

I was remiss in not following up with the result of the JES 338-06's second trip to the range, this time, with no changes to the scope or bedding, but with a new load, the 210 Partition seated 0.025" off the lands and 60, 61, and 62, grains of Big Game as the loads.
On the first trip out, with the 225 Hornady and 2000-MR (which was the most accurate load in my other 338-06 - sub MOA) the average group size was 4.32". On the second trip, with the Noslers, the average group size was 2.02" The barrel is totally free floated, to the receiver ring. My JES rebored 9.3x62 (which drove nails on its first trip to the range), is bedded to just over the first inch of the barrel, and carefully neutral bedded back at the tang. I think the 338-06 might like this extra support forward of the receiver ring, especially given that the 338 had been set back a half thread (and thus lost that much thread support) back when it was first sporterized, I assume to hide the pin slot that anchored the rear sight sleeve on the original 1903 Springfields.

Rex, what’s your plan with the 338? Add a temporary pressure point forward of the receiver or try a different load?

Or just hunt with it, because a 2 MOA rifle works just fine.

Rex,

As I recently explained in another post, many bolt-actions early in the 20th century had the front action screw going directly into the recoil lug. This could result in the front of the action bending down slightly when the front screw was really tightened--which didn't help accuracy, since the bolt lugs are oriented vertically when the bolt's closed.

This is why it was standard procedure for many years after WWII to epoxy-bed a little of the rear of the barrel. This was NOT to support the barrel, but to support the action, and keep it from bending.

The 1903 Springfield is one of the many actions from that era with the front screw going directly into the recoil lug.

Thanks John,
That's exactly why I put a bit over an inch of the barrel shank in the glass on the 9.3, which I bedded myself, it having never been done before, just bare wood (actually had a little bit of sheet metal bent under the recoil lug before I started working it). I also bedded the tang, and added just enough glass under the bottom metal to make sure I don't get metal-to-metal contact between the bottom metal and receiver when the action screws are tightened down. But whoever sporterized the 338-06 (back before it was a 338-06, of course) did glass bed the action, and I have not gotten in there to clean things up yet. My plan is to make sure I have a little relief in the areas where I like a little relief (front, sides, and bottom of recoil lug, and about 3 thicknesses of masking tape on the aft edge of the tang, so there is no impact to the thin inletting at the top of the wrist under recoil). And I'll bed the first inch or so of the barrel, and after that is all cured, come back and bed the tang nice and neutral so there is no stress on the action. That, combined with that short, stiff 19" barrel, I still have high hopes for. I'll be very surprised if I don't get it down to a 1.5 MOA or better, easy toting carbine by the time it's all done. I'll keep y'all posted.

Cheers,
Rex

That rifle still shooting good?

I just had a 338-06 done by Jess a few months back. Been pretty good for me as well.













It’s good enough for me and what I’m doing.

I had a Rem 7600 in .243Win re-bored by JES in NOV.

I asked that the caliber NOT be re-stamped and he complied. My smith then milled the .243 flat and engraved .358 leaving the original Win. I think it came out pretty well:



Only a 1.5-5X on it, but it's grouping pretty well:



From last week:

That’s a killer rig.

THANKS!

I'm pretty please with how it turned out!

Fast becoming my favorite woods carbine for drives and stands.

What is the advantage of re-bore vs re-barrel other than the price? Just curious, thinking about 358 Winchester in the future and debating which way would be more accurate.

i had Jess rebore do a Ruger #1 and rebore the barrel to a 35 Whelen , i also before i shot this rebored i took it to a very fussy machinist who also does a lot of National bench rest rebarrel jobs for guys that have won National titles . this machinist used his bore scope as i also had done and said Jes rebore had done an excellent job. this Ruger #1 now a 35 Whelen shoots excellent ,i am very satisfied with his work. Pete53

Price is a primary reason. Another is to keep the original barrel profile. Perhaps it has express sights and a barrel band you’d like to keep. Keeping the original profile means no stock modifications to accommodate a new barrel if you didn’t have the profile duplicated.

In my limited experience, two rebores and having been around a half dozen fellow shooters who had rebores, I’ve not seen one that shot poorer after reboring. My 35 Whelen, originally a 1941 Winchester 70 30-06, shot well. Nothing spectacular but well enough. After Cliff Labounty rebored it to the Whelen, it thinks it’s a varmint rifle.

I had a Sedgley Springfield 30-06 with a really poor bore. It shot accurate enough but was really rough. JES rebored it to 375 Whelen and it shot about the same. No loss of accuracy but no noticeable gain.

IF you want to maintain the current barrel, it makes sense.

My re-bore job cost $350 in NOV.

During the same time I had a Rem 700 re-barreled with a Bartlein 2B, which cost $400 for the blank and just over $200 to fit it.

Normally I prefer to re-barrel, but in my case re-barreling a 7600 would have been much more expensive than the JES re-bore. There are a lot of reviews from guys that have gotten excellent accuracy from re-bores.

Does a JES rebore cost $450?

Nope, TYPO...$350.

I've had the same idea for some time but truth be told, I have to agree with Blu_Cs. The barrel is too thin for a rebore, even to .338".

I do have a plan though, where I take a Ruger M77 .358 Win. and take the barrel off and put it on the RSI properly trimmed to the 18.5" length. Open up the muzzle cap, replace the sights et. and I'll have a faux M77RSI. think the biggest problem would be inletting the stock for the "fatter" barrel. I have three RSIs in .308 Win., two being the nice and slim rifles they're supposed to be. One, number three is slightly fatter especially in the forearm and could possibly take the .358 barrel. I keep thinling about it but haven't gotten around to getting it done.

Short story on Ruger, the RSI in .358 Win. Back in1981 I was at the NRA convention and was looking at the RSI. I commented to a fellow who said he was the Ruger rep that I would love to have this rifle chambered to the .358 Win. He blew up like a bomb, said it would never happen, and was cussing up a blue streak when I just said FU and walked away. My wife was with me and said he represents the company???

I do have it on good notice that Bill Ruger did have a very short run of M77 RSI rifles made in .358 Win. strictly for friends Nd have seen photos of at least two. There also may be a few lunchbox specials out there as well.
PJ

I think mine was 300 a couple months back.

JES rebored my 1885 Highwall 3 or 4 years ago in a 5 groove 10 twist for $300.00. Very pleased

JES did my 35/30-30 (3 groove) and he did an awesome job.

sighting it in at 100 yards


i can do 1/2 - 3/4" at 100 yards with 5 shots off a bench. Well, i used to, before my eyes got funny and they said glasses, we need glasses!!!!

I sent him a Browning Safari to rebore. He's the only one that would do it, others wanted more thickness at the muzzle.
Fingers crossed.

What to what, Dennis?

35 Whelen is as big as i can go.
.575" muzzle

Have shown this one before, a shot out Pre-64 .243 FWT that JES turned into a .358 Win. I restored the rifle, recut the checkering, touched up the finish, glassed it, etc.

I even made some .358 Win brass from .243 brass, didn't split but three. Surprised me. Made more out of .308 brass and actually have some .358 headstamp cases.

Trijicon AccuPoint 3-9x40, duplex with green dot in Burris Signature rings. This pre-64 receiver wasn't drilled exactly true, so I used the eccentric ring inserts to utilize the optical center of the Trijicon.

And it shoots pretty good. This bullet, the 160 CEB Raptor. I also like the 178 Shock Hammer over RL-7.

DF

Nice

You did darned well with it DF. I’d had done the same thing.

Yeah, went from a 3” shooter to a sub inch shooter. And in a caliber and round I like better. And JES is a good bit less expensive than a new barrel. And I preserve the classic look.

Those Signature rings came in handy, truing up the receiver screw holes that were a tad off. Those inserts really grip the scope tube, ain’t gonna be moving around.

I tweaked the trigger to a crisp 2 1/2 # with no noticeable overtravel. Those old M-70 triggers can be adjusted to a really good pull, just takes some time and attention to detail.

Overall, turned into a nice deer rifle. Those big bullets do whack’em with authority. Not a real long range set up, but good out to 2-300 yds which works for where and what I hunt. I have other rifles for long stuff.

DF

Trex

I’d be interested in hearing how you 9.3x62 Springfield re-bore comes out. I have a “sporterized” 03-A3 that has an over size chamber that I’m thinking might be better.
In particular I’d be interested in how the modification works in a controlled feed action.

What does the barrel diameter need to be to make a 9.3x62?

Bugger, at the risk of looking like "that guy" that only posts his best groups on 24HCF, I'll share the story of my JES 9.3x62 rebored Springfield, which was a 1932 receiver (per online records) with a 1934 dated barrel. Plenty of beef in that barrel for the rebore. I got my barreled action back from JES and took it to the range. I had mounted a Leupold 4x Compact (which JB has taught me is actually about a 3.3X) in vintage Buehler mounts, and bedded the action and an inch or so of the barrel shank. I did a rough boresight and shot my very first group out of this rifle with Lapua 285 Mega factory ammo:


Nice! So I went right to my ladder I had loaded up to sneak up on Mule Deer's "250 AB, 60.5 Varget" load. These were the "dirt-cheap" SPS 250 AB seconds that they had a couple years ago. I had loaded three each of 58, 59, and 60 Varget, and four of 60.5. Keep in mind that between each of these groups, I was cranking on the friction dials of the old Leopold compact to get 'er dialed in.
58 Gr.

59 gr and 60 gr

So then I tried "the load"

But note that I am almost 100 FPS below John's velocities, and I reckon my lot of Varget is a little slower in this chambering than John's. So I ended up bumping it up to 62.5 before I got to John's velocity numbers. In the interim, I had done a bit of work with RL-15.5 and had loaded up a batch of 250 AB to the low 2600s for my 2022 elk hunt. They worked:

But after that, SPS loaded up a ton of the 250 E-Tips on their site and I grabbed a bunch, for those situations when a 250 AB "just might not be enough, LOL" I ran them up to the low 2600s with Varget, and they were easily giving me "minute of moose"

but at the end of the test string, I also shot three of my leftover 250 AB/RL-15.5 loads from last year's elk hunt (left target in the pic). The right target is the first of the three 250 E-Tip groups as I was dialing in the 4X compact to the new load.

So how did my JES rebore come out?
Good.

Cheers,
Rex

BTW, Bugger, I should address the second half of your question about CRF actions. First off, I'll tell you my Springfield feeds slicker than owl snot out of the magazine.
But I learned a new fact about the '03 Springfield during this project. Unlike the Mauser and the CRF M70, the Springfield is designed to be able to single load and close the bolt over a cartridge being pushed ahead of the bolt. This is because in the early days when the '03 was fielded, the idea was soldiers would single feed each round while keeping the magazine full. This is what the magazine cut-off switch is all about. When the bad guys charged, then the switch would be pushed up to the vertical "ON" position and the soldier could run his magazine out and the keep loading it via stripper clips.

Cheers,
Rex

I’ve never had a problem single loading any Model 70 classic, and I’ve owned a few…

Hey bigswede358, The general number that I've seen recommended for a rebore is an extra .125 on either side of the bore for the larger calibers. So in dennisinaz's example above:

.575 - .35 = .225 (muzzle diameter - caliber = remainder on both sides of the bore)
.225 / 2 = .1125" remaining on each side of the bore.
He's a little bit below the "recommended" .125 thickness on either side but it's up to the person doing the rebore to decide the threshold they're willing to tolerate.

Another way to look at dennisinaz's situation is to calculate:

.575 muzzle - .250 recommended thickness (.125 * 2) = .325 maximum ideal caliber rebore for this barrel based on general recommendations. So a .338 or a .35 might depend on whether the person doing the rebore thinks that's advisable.

In your case:

9.3 / 25. 4 = .366 (mm / mm per inch = caliber)
.366 + (.125 * 2) = .616" ideal muzzle diameter (caliber + 2x the recommended barrel thickness).

So you need 15.6 mm or a little less than 5/8" (.625") to have the recommended .616" muzzle diameter.

To answer the question then, no modifications were needed to the action.

Sorry Bugger...correct...no action mods. Sorry for getting a little carried away with answering how my rebore "came out."

In what way is your chamber oversized? Headspace? Or a bit big in diameter?

Cheers,
Rex

Odonata,

Thanks. I have a message into JES but haven’t received a call back yet.
I’m either going to use an Interarms or Remington 700 for the rebore. I want to use the Interarms Mauser, but the barrel is pencil thin. The barrel is 24”, so I have some wiggle room. I want to finish out at 22” if possible.

My only experience with JES has been a great one. Bought an older Marlin 336 30-30 that had a rusted bore and sent it to be bored out to 38-55. I've only used cast bullets in it, but it's been a good one and have taken several whitetails with it.

Just got off the phone with JES. He needs a muzzle diameter of .560 for a 9.3x62.

The reamer went in a little deep is all. I have a set of brass that’s for that rifle only. Options, leave it as is or I could just have the barrel set back. But it’s probably a $500 rifle and doing that would not increase its value to anyone but me. I’m thinking 9.3x62 chamber/bore would increase the value a bit and give me something new to play with.

Bugger

Sent a 700 with a pitted barrel in 7-08 to him to have it reamed to 358 and the barrel chopped to 20" and recrowned. 3 groove barrel shoots great. My only issue is its a little rough and like to be shot fouled. Im used to having to clean barrels often. It shoots many different powders into moa. Overall very happy with it. My best group has been a couple of .3's with H4895 and 200 gr Hornady sp.

That's 0.056 smaller than my more robust estimate. I guess what is acceptable must have a bit to do with the power of the cartridge as well. My advice is to go with what Jesse says and not what some random guy on the internet (that would be me ) thought might be the right answer.

Appreciate the info, anyways.

Cliff LaBounty (I have three of his rebores) required .10" a side at the muzzle. My factory Ruger M77 RS in 35 Whelen measures .560" at the muzzle.

Yeah, my .358 Win JES 3 groove bore is a bit rough thru the Hawkeye, shows some tool marks. When you recut an older barrel, you take a chance on what the steel is like, not that uncommon to have some flaws and inclusions.

It did foul a good bit at first, but after a DBC treatment and a number of rounds down the spout, it seemed to foul less and less, sorta leveled out.

And, it shoots pretty good as per the target I posted. Of course, a 3 shot group, but it'll shoot almost that good most of the time, just hard to duplicate those trophy 3 shot bragging targets.

But, if you look at Salvage factory barrels thru the Hawkeye, they can be pretty rough, but they tend to shoot a lot better than they look. The acid test is at the range and they pass.

A little fouling doesn't usually hurt accuracy. I don't do an OCD cleaning down to raw steel every time I shoot. Good way to wear out a bore. With DBC, you don't want to do that anyway, just use solvents and a patch, no harsh brushing.

DF

Ruger rebored from a 280 to 9.3. First 6 rounds through the gun.



P64 300 Wby to a 375 Imp



M70 SS Classic 30-06 to 338-06



M700 SS Classic 338 Win to 35 Newton

Overall I’ve had a few and I tend to put 50 rounds through them cleaning to steel about every 10 and have had pretty good luck with them shooting well.

DF’s description of them is about spot on.

Just out of curiosity, I put a caliper on the factory barrel of my Ruger No. 1S in 9.3x74r and it was a hair over 17mm so about .670 which gives it .150 on each side. That doesn't mean anything. I just thought it might be an interesting number for comparison for the guys who are thinking of reboring to a 9.3.

My .358 Win FWT M-70 is .560” and it was evidently enough for JES to take it to .35 cal.

I measure .107” barrel thickness. Taking .560” and subtracting .35 cal leaves .210”, divided by two gives .105”.

So maybe I lost .002” somewhere.

Still pretty close.

DF

I have several rebores and I have spent countless hours on the phone mentoring under Wayne York, Jesse O, Al Siegrist, Gene Pratka, Mike Bellm, Danny Pederson, Randy Selby, and Norm Johnson. I'm still no expert. .100" wall thickness at the muzzle is the general rule of thumb as there's alot less pressure there than anywhere else in the barrel. I've also learned from those men and first hand that every barrel I get rebored will get at least .700" cut off the end and recrowned. My best shooting rebores have 1" less barrel length and are truly the most accurate rifles I own.

Thats definitely something I need to look into.

As usual I'm a little late getting to a thread but I'll have to echo everyone's sentiments towards Jes's work. I've had two rifles done by him and the first was a great shooter. It was a Marlin 336 30/30 rebored to 38/55. It shot great with Barnes Originals and cast as well. The second rifle is a Glenfield model 30 with the half mag that also started life as a 30/30 but is now a 356 Winchester. Regrettably I've never got around to shooting it yet. I have some test loads made up just have yet to get it to the range. I went with the 3 groove rifling on both.

Goat

That's what he told me for the 35 Whelen rebore. It's one or the other. 560 sounds pretty thin for 9.3 that's only .097" per side. If it's too thin is going to be more prone to damage as well.

Have JES cut an inch off the barrel. I bet it shoots even better.

I'll cut off as much as i can but trying to preserve the front sight

As I mentioned earlier - my JES 9.3 x 62 is very accurate, but my 19" Springfield 338-06 has never impressed, and has been erratic in accuracy. I've drawn an elk tag in AZ this year and hope to "bloody" the 338-06. After the last range session, I finally discovered the rear weaver scope base was drilled a little crooked and had a lot of stress on the scope. So I bedded both bases, lapped the rings true to one another, glassed the lower half of the rings to get them perfectly aligned, and smoothed some burrs off the inside of the top half steel rings. Rather than mount the previous scope, it now wears the Leupold 2.5x compact I had planned for it from the beginning. Heading to the range in an hour and hoping for some improvement and consistency. Will report.
Rex

Don't overlook heavier weight bullets up to 265gn.

Thanks AGW.
I have almost 600 x .338 Hornady 250 gr RN Interlock in my stash as well, and I think they'd be well suited also for this little rifle.
I can pretty much duplicate the 250 gr. factory .318 Westley Richards load at about 2400' with those.

Rex

How did she shoot???

Not a lot better with this load. Going to try some others. And I am kind if psyched to run those 250 Hornady RNs at 318 Westley Richards numbers.
I'm "minute of moose" with everything - it'd just be nice to get tightened up a little bit.

I like the 210 Partition in 338-06

When I hit 2400 FPS with the 250 RN she shot at 1.2 MOA, which ain't bad. Will try to reproduce that this week. Also hoping to get the 225 SP Interlock shooting better than it is. We'll see.
Rex