So in a very short test of shooting with a dirty bore I shot 20-30 rounds back in November and had not touched that rifle again until Saturday. First 3 shots went into 3/8" using my favorite load of 41.3gr H4350 and 130gr Gamechangers. (Bergara Woodsman 6.5CM) Then I proceed to shoot 30 or so rounds of different loads looking for a magic 140gr load. At the end of that session I shot one more group with my proven favorite and put 3 into just under 1/2". That made somewhere between 50 and 60 rounds and the accuracy is getting better if anything. (Although I have shot a bunch of 1/2" groups with this rifle and load.) Kind of makes me wonder at what point should I actually clean this thing? I have shot hundreds of rounds through my 17HMR without cleaning and 22's seem to shoot better and better the dirtier they get. Thoughts or experiences leaving the bore dirty as opposed to cleaning every trip to the range?

I try to clean my rifle every 2 or 3 years.....whether it needs it or not! memtb

A few years ago I went prairie dog hunting with a .223. Loads used IMR8208xbr, and the rifle is not a copper magnet. Left with a clean bore except for the 5 shots after cleaning to foul the bore and confirm sight in. Shot 440 rounds without cleaning and kept my last 20 for a check. At the range at home, no change in group size after the 440 rounds. Rifle cleaned up quickly, some powder fouling but not much and very little copper. I don't clean that rifle as often anymore! Other rifles will need cleaning more often, but nothing needs to be cleaned oftener than every 80-100 rounds. I have owned copper foulers that needed more fequent cleaning with a good copper solvent, but those have gone down the road. I live in a dry climate so rust is not an issue.....Lousisana shooters may need to worry more.

I only have to shoot foulers once or twice a year for most of my rifles.

I clean if going into storage for any length of time as we have a humid climate. If not I clean when I change loads and before I hit 100 rounds usually before this though. If your shooting on a regular basis you can wait till accuracy starts to suffer before you clean. I got rid of all the barrels that are prone to fouling so I probably clean more frequently than I need to.

I do believe one of those dreaded professional gun writers has written about this stuff extensively for quite a few years....

Credit must be given where credit is due, Mule Deer. I'd read your articles, but had trouble staying away from the cleaning rod out of habit. After that pdog hunt I became a believer.
I still clean every 500 rounds or so with that .223....but don't know if it's needed even then. . My deer rifle tells me to clean after a hundred rounds or so...it picks up a little copper and groups start gradually getting larger around the 100 round count..

Must have been asked and answered before, but has bore fouling residue been proven to not attract and hold water vapor, especially in more humid climates?

I have heard it claimed that copper fouling can be a problem in more humid climates, because water molecules creep under the copper. But cannot remember where I heard (or read) that, probably because it was quite a while ago. That said, I would bet oiling the bore between shooting sessions would prevent it.

Was hoping there would be a chapter about it in Gun Gack, but no luck.

Indeed we do as a .222 barrel I once owned can attest. No feeling like looking down a bore and seeing fuzzy crud in it and when pushing a patch through it comes out red.

centershot,

I thought a chapter on bore cleaning and break-in was in GUN GACK II, but just looked and I was mistaken. It will be in GUN GACK III, which I am working on now and will be out this fall.

Joe, I bet that is a bad feeling. Here in Eastern Montana humidity is not a problem...though this past August and September I was wondering....it rained a LOT those two months. Were you able to salvage that .222 barrel? Mule Deer, I'm looking forward to GG III.

MD I had an article your wrote about using the ladder method to sight in I believe but have misplaced it. If you have room in GUN GLACK III. Unless I missed it in I and II

Mike

300savagehunter,

Hmm. I don't remember writing about sighting-in with the ladder method. Any more details you can remember?

That brings up another question: How do you remove the oil before shooting and what happens to your fouled barrel POI and grouping? I have taken to using just Hoppe's #9 every once on a while on guns that I shoot regularly, then run a couple of dry patches through. I still like to shoot a couple of fouling shots before trusting my sight settings for hunting. If I'm just punching holes in paper, it doesn't matter that much. On the rifles that I'm using during hunting season, I don't clean at all until I'm through hunting. My "house" coyote gun, 223 goes a long time between any cleaning at all.

Have found that running 2-3 tight cotton patches soaked in rubbing alcohol, followed by a dry patch, normally results in the same POI/grouping.

But I also often install Dyna Bore Coat in the barrels of rifles that get shot a lot, especially prairie dog rifles, which provides a moisture barrier in the bore.

Are you using the alcohol after cleaning with something else or instead of a solvent?

I Used to clean every 20 shots. I dont do that anymore. I have a Savage 12FV varmint gun. I shot a .6, .66, .8 and 1" . It had a clean barrel but it doesnt seem to matter much anymore. I also think I ruined a barrel once by cleaning it too much.

Anson Rogers,

I am using the alcohol to remove the oil from a fouled bore.

[/quote]That brings up another question: How do you remove the oil before shooting and what happens to your fouled barrel POI and grouping? I have taken to using just Hoppe's #9 every once on a while on guns that I shoot regularly, then run a couple of dry patches through. I still like to shoot a couple of fouling shots before trusting my sight settings for hunting. If I'm just punching holes in paper, it doesn't matter that much. On the rifles that I'm using during hunting season, I don't clean at all until I'm through hunting. My "house" coyote gun, 223 goes a long time between any cleaning at all. [/quote]

My Dad got his 99 300Sav for Christmas 1927. I remember as a child, sometime during the 1940s, him showing me how to make a cotton "kite tail" to dip in a bottle of Hoppe's #9. He drew that through his old 300 a few times with a fish line. He'd put a piece of paper in the opened ejection port to reflect light up the bore, look down the barrel, and pronounce it cleaned. That process continued 'till 1987 after he shot his last buck. I wonder if that barrel ever was free of powder residue or copper. I do know that ole 300 never lost it's ability to shoot a whitetail or hit a tree knot off hand at 60 yards when he was shooting it.

I usually don't put oil in a barrel until it's been cleaned and then it's just a little Rem Oil. I use a 50/50 mix of Kroil and Hoppe's #9 to clean usually and only run one dry patch through. Before shooting, I'll run another dry patch or two. I'll try the alcohol method. Thanks.

Rug3, that's a great story. The old-timers didn't cartridge hop like we do...they just got a good rifle and shot deer with them till they couldn't anymore....but their rifles still could.

The problem with shooting till the accuracy is gone, usually ends up with a bore that is a lot of work to clean with the best of cleaning equipment and bore scope to verify. I shot p. dogs for a long time. Long hot strings were the norm, 125-300 rounds down a bore was the norm. We had the where with all to clean down to bare metal at the end of each day. We ordered barrels 10 at a time.

keith,

Have not found that to be nearly as true in recent years, due to cleaner-burning powders, often including decoppering agents. Dyna Bore Coat helps considerably as well with barrels that show any tendency to copper-foul.

It cleaned up but had light pits throughout. Accuracy didn't seem to be affected although it was never as precise as I thought a .222 should be. I had a .223 that would beat it every time so I traded it for something or other.

JB or anyone else, have you ever used an Outer's Foul Out? I've had the FO II for many years but haven't used it much because it's a bit of a PIA to set up. Curious if it really cleans down to bare metal. I'm not sure that's necessary most times but it would be handy for installing Bore Coat.

I used the FOII on a Kimber 260 that had accuracy issues. It had been broken in the shoot one shot, clean, shoot for many rounds but was never too accurate. As a last resort, I used the FOII on it. After that, I could never get it to shoot as well as it did before. It probably had a rough barrel and I was never able to find the magic amount of fouling it liked.

Anson,

I had a Foul Out II for a few years, but like you found it to be a PITA to use--though it did get rid of any copper. But when oil-based solvents like Wipe-Out and Montana X-Treme appeared, which could be left in the bore with no danger of etching, I switched to them, simplifying my life considerably.

I used to leave my bore fouled during hunting season but changed my mindset in the last few years.

EIo879 - What caused you to change your thinking?

When I am doing accuracy testing I will clean between different loads, especially if switching from C&C bullets to Copper ones. This was needed more with the old Barnes X bullets but seems less critical with the TSX. I have read where target shooters will clean before changing to a different powder even with the same bullet. All of this is probably unnecessary for a hunting rifle but old habits linger on.

I still leave my bores fouled even though most of my rifle will shoot pretty close oily, or dry, dirty, or clean. The only negative I have had was when I had molly in the bore and hunted in a heavy rain with no blue tape for the barrel. Corrosion was just starting when I cleaned that rifle later in the evening.

About half the serious PRS guys and schools teach you not to clean your barrel ever, maybe a pass with a bore snake, and the other half of the long range guys clean like crazy. Seems like both ways work.

Biggest issue if you live in any sort of damp climate especially if you shoot with a suppressor, is carbon fouling and powder residue attract moisture. I have lived places where I didn't have to clean rifles much for whatever reason in Central TX if I leave a bore dirty for a month it shows surface rust...or worse.