I have been searching through my old 1946 copy of Keith's "Rifles for Large Game" and am kind of surprised to find no references to the 9.3x62. Is it possible that at this point in his life Keith was ignorant of this cartridge? I feel like he would have absolutely loved it, based on all his writings. But any time he is kind of working through the useful calibers for various classes of hunting, he skips right from the .35s to the .375s. He writes about both the 9mm Mauser and Mannlicher, and the 9.5mm (.375) Mauser but I can find no mention of the ole Nine-Three, despite it being over 40 years old at the time of the book's writing. The 9.3x62 was a more popular round than either the 9mm or 9.5mm so this seems odd. I have read that Keith had not yet been to Africa when this book was published, and may not have traveled there until the '60s.
Did he ever learn of and write any opinions about the 9.3x62? I only have this book and "Hell, I was There!" to search through.
Thanks,
Rex
9.3x62s were VERY scarce in the U.S. for a long time, partly because of a lack of bullets. Can't remember when Speer started offering their 270-grain 9.3 Hot-Cor, but for many years it was the only American 9.3mm jacketed bullet, and back then there weren't nearly as many bullets imported from Europe, in any caliber.
I've read most of Keith's books and GUNS & AMMO columns at least twice, and the only reference I can recall to any 9.3mm round was when he necked down the 9.3x74R to .338, to create a rimmed wildcat for single-shot rifles.
I have both volumes of Gun Notes but, unfortunately, there is no index. I don't recall him ever writing about the 9.3x62.
I've never seen it mentioned in Keith's writings but Jack spoke of it, in The Hunting Rifle I think it was. As I recall he mentioned it was a popular round in Europe and Africa and speculated it was a good cartridge.
9.3x62s were VERY scarce in the U.S. for a long time, partly because of a lack of bullets. Can't remember when Speer started offering their 270-grain 9.3 Hot-Cor, but for many years it was the only American 9.3mm jacketed bullet, and back then there weren't nearly as many bullets imported from Europe, in any caliber.
I've read most of Keith's books and GUNS & AMMO columns at least twice, and the only reference I can recall to any 9.3mm round was when he necked down the 9.3x74R to .338, to create a rimmed wildcat for single-shot rifles.
Wasn't that Scovill's reason for doing his .375 is that he liked the 9.3 case but couldn't consistently get bullets?
Keith would have known about the 9.3 but as Mule Deer points out,there just wasn't a supply of bullets. The only 9.3 rifles that I remember growing up in the late 70s were from Steyr.
Prior to the single offering from Speer,the only available bullets that I remember were from RWS of Germany. The RWS bullets were only available from time to time through various importers.
The only reason I know any of this is that Steyrs were imported where I grew up and I would stop and talk to their people from time to time. I only knew one fellow who had a 9.3x62 and he loved it for hunting in timbered country, He used a light for caliber bullet of about 230 grains from RWS or Hirteberger and said it was an awesome killer.
A couple of us bought 35 Whelens when they became commercially available because of the performance of the 9.3 x62. We figured it was close enough.
Apparently Keith did too.
I posted on this thread yesterday and it disappeared. Just wondering what happened?
I posted on this thread yesterday and it disappeared. Just wondering what happened?
Search me, but please post again whatever you had to add.
Has anyone else been seeing weird behavior by this website in the past few days? I used to be able to stay logged on but now I get logged off all the time. And sometimes when I log back on to make a post - it craps the bed when I hit "Post Reply", logs me off, and I lose everything I wrote. Only been happening for 3-4 days.
On Sunday night, I believe, I couldn't log on at all, neither from my phone nor my computer. Came back in a few hours, but since then I've had some strange behavior too. Sent me to the Hunter's campfire, which I usually avoid, and wouldn't let me out till I closed everything.
Some real gymnastics of a sort take place on the size of the page and sidebar as well as switching around when I first call up the 'fire.
He mentions the 9.3x74R in Big Game Rifles and Cartridges: "...a great favorite throughout most of Europe and for the lighter African shooting and would be excellent for all American game"
Yep, under the double rifle section.
Jack O'Conner references it in passing in "The hunting rifle." By that I mean he mentions it exists in Europe and not really at all here.
Did Keith acknowledgen any European cartridge? Some in his age group didn't. I had a great aunt that was of German Decent on her father's side that didn't acknowledge anything except things English from Europe. WWI caused German Americans to shuck all things German. The 9.3 is a Mauser cartridge.
Yes, in the aforementioned Big Game Rifles and Cartridges he spoke of the 6.5, 7, 8 and 9mm Mausers and Mannlichers.
He was also fond of Lugers and their long range capabilities.
Yes, in the aforementioned Big Game Rifles and Cartridges he spoke of the 6.5, 7, 8 and 9mm Mausers and Mannlichers.
He was also fond of Lugers and their long range capabilities.
The 9x57 Mauser was somewhat popular in the first half of the 20th Century. Even Townsend Whelen mentioned it and Winchester apparently sold some model 54's in it. But it is not a 9.3.
Did Keith acknowledgen any European cartridge? Some in his age group didn't. I had a great aunt that was of German Decent on her father's side that didn't acknowledge anything except things English from Europe. WWI caused German Americans to shuck all things German. The 9.3 is a Mauser cartridge.
My Wife's paternal grandfather came to the U.S. from Germany in 1887, but didn't become an American citizen until 1920. Family lore has it that thousands of Germans in mid-Nebraska became American citizens to show their loyalty and because they had been subjects of the German Empire. When the German Empire fell they chose to pledge their allegiance to the U.S., rather than to the new Weimar Republic.
Yes, in the aforementioned Big Game Rifles and Cartridges he spoke of the 6.5, 7, 8 and 9mm Mausers and Mannlichers.
He was also fond of Lugers and their long range capabilities.
And he mentions an even more obscure round, the 9.5x57. Which I found a set of dies RCBS custom dies for at a flea market for $10. So now I'm going to build one...
That's a .375 caliber. The lighter bullets like the 270 grain Hornady, as well as cast ought to be great!
Yes, in the aforementioned Big Game Rifles and Cartridges he spoke of the 6.5, 7, 8 and 9mm Mausers and Mannlichers.
He was also fond of Lugers and their long range capabilities.
The 9x57 Mauser was somewhat popular in the first half of the 20th Century. Even Townsend Whelen mentioned it and Winchester apparently sold some model 54's in it. But it is not a 9.3.
Actually Winchester also chambered the Model 70 for the 9mm Mauser. I've seen one in the flesh. As I recall, it only said "9mm" on the barrel, no "Mauser."
But we digress...
Yes, in the aforementioned Big Game Rifles and Cartridges he spoke of the 6.5, 7, 8 and 9mm Mausers and Mannlichers.
He was also fond of Lugers and their long range capabilities.
The 9x57 Mauser was somewhat popular in the first half of the 20th Century. Even Townsend Whelen mentioned it and Winchester apparently sold some model 54's in it. But it is not a 9.3.
Actually Winchester also chambered the Model 70 for the 9mm Mauser. I've seen one in the flesh. As I recall, it only said "9mm" on the barrel, no "Mauser."
But we digress...
Interesting!
i do think Jack had a mauser 9.3x62 rifle that was rebarelled in a 338 win mag.
Filiman.......Seems I read Elmo speak of his Boswell double in .500 Somethingorother. Probly in "Hell, I was there". Had an argument about the handling his little gem was getting by some airline apes and just carried it on the plane. Got some grief over it but pretty much told them Wheels Up. Since he had a .500 and TSA was busy they spun the props and got the wheels up. Remember him saying how he liked to get close to a bull elephant quartering away, shoot him in the back of the head and watch brains squirt out his ears.
Seems I also recall him using a 9.3x74 double on elk in timber because of sometimes having to take "raking" shots, but I may be a little Biden-ized on that. Could have been a 450/400. That "raking"shot business always sounded like gut shooting on purpose hoping the bullet made it up front in the poor beast. Gut shootin an elk has to be bad to deal with.
It was a .500 Boswell, and raking shots in heavy cover can happen.. If you have hunted for between 15-30 walking every day, you need to take advantage of any chance you get/// Not the same as shooting scrawny whitetails from a blind over a baited “food plot””. Elmer was a hard hunter and a good one.. Something the modern shooters know little about..
Yes, in the aforementioned Big Game Rifles and Cartridges he spoke of the 6.5, 7, 8 and 9mm Mausers and Mannlichers.
He was also fond of Lugers and their long range capabilities.
The 9x57 Mauser was somewhat popular in the first half of the 20th Century. Even Townsend Whelen mentioned it and Winchester apparently sold some model 54's in it. But it is not a 9.3.
Actually Winchester also chambered the Model 70 for the 9mm Mauser. I've seen one in the flesh. As I recall, it only said "9mm" on the barrel, no "Mauser."
But we digress...
They made a few in 7.65mm and 8mm too.
In June 1950, as a technical advisor to the American Rifleman, Elmer provided some reloading advice for the 9.3x74R. He said that while he had never actually used that cartridge, he viewed it as similar to the 375 Nitro Express and 400-360 Westley Richards, of which he had reloaded and shot a good bit. A little more background.
NOT smart just well read.. And about 60 years experience hunting and shooting..