My itch to own a double is starting to get the best of me, but before I rush into it I would like to educate myself. Is there a forum/website that any of you would recommend? Ray Atkinson--I would especially like to hear from you. There is a world of experience on this forum and I would love to hear from any/all of you. Many thanks.
Ed

www.nitroexpress.com

NE is pretty slow moving but there is some good background info to be had there. Check out Accurate Reloading's Double Rifle Section too (most cross-post under the same names). It's interesting reading if nothing else. Everyone has both a gun and brass that they hate!

Best thing to do is to find a place that has several and handle/shoot them. Esp go the a DRSS shoot. For the $$ they cost, a road trip is a wise investment. (I even had a dealer ship a gun to me just for inspection).

I settled on a Heym 88B after shooting several - should have it within the month!

Kingmanguy,
Wish I was in Arizona today, its pretty cold outside in Idaho..I will be in Ariz. in Feb if the creek don't rise...I try to get down there every winter of 30 days of team roping..

If I wanted a using rifle I would opt for one of Butch Searcys classics, they are stronger than any English rifle and they are the most accurate doubles I have ever used...

If I wanted a collector then I would look around for a old Francotte or a Jefferys or Army Navy. If you want a high doller gun then a Holland and Holland ain't all that bad.

Caliber wise is always argueable..I love the 450-400-3" and thats about all I hunt with anymore. It has served me well on all maner of DG...The .470 is of course the caliber by which all others are judged and probably the best if you don't mind the recoil..I have used it quit a bit...I also like the 450-3.25" caliber but again recoil can be an issue...The .470 is about my limit and I don't particularly like the recoil of it, thus my choice of the 450-400s as my choice, that and the 450-400 kills as well as any 40 caliber...and I didn't see that much difference in it and a 470, so why take the thump was my take..

I agree with Ray. I have a 470 William Douglass and sons and at 9.5 lbs the 470 is brisk. I shot a really nice Lancaster 450-400 and it was sweet.

I'd go to a DRSS shoot handle all the ones there, maybe go to SCI and fondel the ones there too.

My next double will be a FAMARS 450-400 with 25 inch tubes and really trim at 9lbs.

There are some damn good modern doubles out there Searcy, Evo- doubles out of Idaho, Chapuis, Demas,FAMARS, Heym, and Ferlach makers.

Fondel as many as you can and when you make your choice dont look back, shoot it and enjoy. Its a major investment, but there is no other gun that has as much nostalgia as a double.

Thanks to Ray and "Liled" for you input. What is a DRSS shoot, and how do I find more info? Is there an outfit that specializes in selling used doubles? Ray do you/have you used the 450-400 on Elephant? It seems to me that any double that I would buy must be good enough if I ever want to give an elephant a go. Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Ed

The DRSS is a group of guys that got together thru www.accuratereloading.com they usually try to put a hunt together in the spring.

I have not taken a elephant with a 450/400 but I have 2 friends that have and found it perfect. I even had one of my friends that has taken a couple of eles with a 9.3x74R in Zim.

The 450/400 is a sweet little double, and if your not a handloader then 75 dollar a box hornady sounds alot better than 250 dollar 470 ammo.


Ed

I have used the 450-400 on one elephant and it worked just fine as does the 404 Jefferys which I have used and seen used many times and its about the same balistically.

If I intended to hunt bull Elephant all the time or more than a couple of times I would opt for a 500 N.E. it just makes since.

I mostly hunt buffalo, its my passion, and the 450-400 is perfect for them and all other DG IMO...

At the price of elephants and the fact that the companies I book for no longer seem to offer free big bull elephants to their booking agents like they used too, I suspect I will no longer hunt them unless I run across a hundred pounder and have a license available and that is very unlikely to happen, so I sold my fine old .470 and purchased a Searcy Classic in 450-400-3".

Finally, I am not much of an elephant hunter, Hemmingway or Ruark summed it up for me, "an elephant is an awesome amount of death"...

For N. American hunting a 9.3X74R is a great size for a DR. It is very close to a 375 H&H power wise. I have a nice Chapuis and a Pedersoli hammer gun in that caliber.

I always thought that the .303 British would be a very usable caliber for a North American DR.

IMO the 303 is a good caliber, don't get me wrong. But the 9.3 is a better size if there are big brown fuzzy critters around. It's just under the power of a 375 H&H so it'll work for about anything with good shot placement.
It's also a rimmed shell that is better for DR's.

I agree with that. I'd like the .303 for smaller, less fuzzy, big game.

If I had a choice I's stick with a 308 diam bullet rather than the 312 of a 303. A 30-40 fits the bill! But DR's are regulated with 1 load no matter the caliber. The current exception is the newer ones with the adjustments at the muzzle. I haven't played with them so within the pressures allowed they can be hopped up a bit more.

Yup, that would work too ..... I did read somewhere of a custom single shot in .303 British that the owner had done with a .308 bore. All you would have to do is down size the sizing ball.

Then you wind up with a higher pressure round that is still pretty close to the 30-40 Krag. Dies are alot more spendy with a wildcat cartridge w/o much benifit IMO.
I realize that British stuff would be more popular in your neck of the woods but cost VS benifits in the long run I'd stay with something other than the 303.

You can tell the Canadians on the board...all enthused for a 303!

I'm with Supercub, I'd love a nice little double on a 303 for the hunting I do.

Fine double rifles in .303 British are rare and pricey, anything decent will be more than 20K now and they are also rather heavy for the power you have "on tap".

I have has experience with only 3 in some 50 years of this insanity; the first a mint Daniel Fraser, cased with goodies which I could have bought for $4000.00, a gorgeous William Evans I could have had for $7500.00 and a Rigby with a D&Ted top rib, sob, which a local treid to suck me into paying 20K for.

To me, a 9.3x74R is a MUCH better choice in a user DR for North America and these are easily found locally at "fairly" reasonable prices; I was offered a Merkel 141 about two years ago for $3800.00. This is the way to go if you really want a DR for NA shooting and the Kreighoffs I have handled plus the Merkels are pretty decent for the cost.

I saw and played with a 30-40 one year and a 303 on another ocassion at the Dallas SCI show and both of those light, slim, guns made me LUST into a fever..At the end of the show I couldn't handle it any longer and went to lay out the big bucks for the 30-40 and it was sold, and to my great relief..They were awesome, then there was that lovely little 4 lb. 22 hornet double, but thats another story..I bought it, fondled it, hugged it and sold it before I got home!! It left my hands with a tear on the barrels..

Gotta be forty years ago I bought a lovely little Francotte 30-40 boxlock ejector at Abercrombie & Fitch complete with Lyman Alaskan in a Griffin & Howe topmount on the rib. In those days you could buy factory ammo with 150, 180 and 220 grain bullets. I tried them all with and without the scope and the rifle would not shoot worth a doggone, notwithstanding mint bores. After some discussion, A&F took it back. Maybe a patient handloader could have tamed it, but I am not in that category. A couple of years later they offered another Francotte, quite a beauty, 30-40 with express sights and a second set of scoped barrels in .270. These swallowed up the nogo headspace guage so I did not bother trying it, and have never looked at another Francotte.

Here is a the address of Champlin Arms, they specialize in DR's, but sell all kinds of guns. Excellent reputation. JJ Perodeuax sp? was an apprentice to fine double rifle maker Marcel Thys and is excellent as well.

http://champlinarms.com/

If you do a search you will find more.

Good luck in your search.

JPK

Liled,

I own an A&S Farmars sidelock. I bought it a couple of months ago and haven't done much shooting with it yet. Mine is in 375H&H and weighs 8.5lbs. Very pretty rifle with excellent fit and finish. Excellent sights. Excellent balance and handling.

I'll be adding a set of mounts, a leather pad and sling eyes and getting it sorted for a safari this coming season.

I'm not afraid of the higher pressure rimless rounds in doubles like some are. My elephant rifle is a Marcel Thys sidelock in 458wm. 800 rounds, 11 elephants, 4 cape buffalo, 1 zebra, 1 klipspringer and 1 baboon mercy killing, no problems.

And I've been elephant hunting with barrowed 458wm ammo which is ubiquitous, as is 375H&H.

JPK

I would check these guys out if you haven't. http://www.krieghoff.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

They offer double rifles in just about every caliber including 30-06 and .308Winny. They also offer their double rifles with scopes and in the above calibers should be good out to 300 hundred yards. I've never have owned or used one but if I were a young man again starting out I would get one. Oh ya they make left-hand stocks for their doubles or at least did the last time I looked. Hope this helps. Merry Christmas.

"Oh ya they make left-hand stocks for their doubles or at least did the last time I looked."

They still do.

Some do not the cocking/decocking issues with the Kreighoff. One PH I hunt with loves his Kreighoff 470 and it has saved his life more than once. I'm not a huge fan of the system and prefer a regular safety slide.

I'm a lefty and that can make finding the right double rifle a PITA. But I've found that for most right handed boxlock rifles the stock can be bent to accomodate cast on required for properly fitting us lefties. I like about 1/4" of cast on and this is achievable if the rifle doesn't have too much cast off for the righty.

For the few box locks or the many sidelocks which have long top straps, and often long trigger gaurd straps, bending is not possible. For those, removing the cheek piece for the righty and then taking some wood away from the right side has worked for me. Both of my double rifles are former right handed sidelocks with long top straps.

I also have the triggers twisted so that my finger makes full contact with the blade. (They start twisted for a righty) I started shooting SxS shotguns and don't like a true mirror image lefty gun, but some are out there. There are also right opening top levers but reversed triggers guns too.

Searcy will make one anyway you want it, btw.

JPK