Have any of you taken game with the 405 and what do you think of it? Is it better suited to a scope or a dot sight?

I have a couple, Winchester 1895 repro's. They are not suited for anything but open sights, although there is a nice Lyman repro receiver sight for the 1886& 1895, but it is very pricy and does not look good . I have not hunted with mine, but looking at ballistics would think of it as a very mild 375H&H pushing a 40 cal bullet. It should be more than adequate for anything in the western hemisphere, and all but the very largest of African game.

Tang sight.

BMT

I hope to "christen" mine this fall. Both my wife and I have adult moose tags, so here's hoping. From the range work I have done, and the time at the loading bench, I am confident that mine will drill either a moose or a deer out to 200 yards with enough oomph to kill quickly. 300 gr Barnes X bullets seem to be the most accurate in my Ruger #1H. I have a scope on it. Leupie VX-II in 2-7x33. If I'm on my game, it is holding sub inch at 100 yards, and I shoot it better off hand than any other rifle I own.

Shootist, What kind of velocity do you get with the 300 gr bullet?

A good friend of mine has a win. 95 in .405..He had the throat lengthened, the feeding worked over, and he can seat the bullet out..He gets and easy 2100 FPS with 400 gr. Woodleigh RN and solid bullets..he has shot a number of buffalo with this gun and found it to be about the same as his 450-400 N.E.

I see that as a good idea...

Interesting, I wonder how involved a job that is?

The Barnes bears a little more in the bore, and so it won't give the velocities that I am getting with the Hornady bullets. I'm getting near 2300+ with the Barnes which is just a tad over the factory 300 gr FP at 2275 ft/sec. With the 300 Hornady SP, I am getting right at 2450, but that is out of a #1, so I would not consider using that load in a Winchester 95 or the repro. Someone on either this site or another one suggested that with a #1, velocities approaching 2600 were attainable . . . . I haven't pushed the envelope that far yet. Can't imagine why I'd need to.

The gun makes a lot of difference.

We had a bunch of '95s in the family with various sighting arrangements. If it's a Winchester '95, I would not use any sort of optical sights. I don't like tang mounted peeps. I'd use open irons on the barrel or a receiver mounted peep. I've used both Lyman and Redfield, both are good.

I haven't had a #1 in .405, but if I did, I'd probably scope it. Anything from a fixed 2.5X up to a 3-9X should be fine if it has enough eye relief. There are also some quick-attach aperature sights available that lock onto the quarter rib that might be worth consideration.

I plain don't like dot sights. I had a battery go dead unexpectedly one time and leave me in a bind. I won't use them except on "toy" guns again, nothing for any purpose more serious than paper.

Tom

I have a new model '95 that wears a Buffalo Arms reproduction Lyman 38 sight. Using IMR 4320 and the Hornady 300gr roundnose it shoots 1.5"groups.

Regarding its effect on game, I have killed 3 deer and one bear with it. It is a true hammer. Last fall I shot a decent sized doe (120lbs dressed)at 60yds quartering towards me. Shot went through the shoulder, traveled the full length of her and exited though the opposite ham (blowing through the femur).

The one hunt I really want to do with this rifle is a brown bear. Perhaps someday!

Those 2600 FPS velocities were with a 404 Jefferys, not a 405 Win..that just won't work...

Jkingrph,
You would have to contact Judge G on the Accuratereloading.com forum for that information..I can't recall the smith that did the work on his .405 but he is one of the better ones out there..I am sure Dennis Olson in Plains, Mt. could also do the work...I would not think it would be overly expensive and I would certainly do it...

I have taken a few Female deer on a cull hunt last year with my Win. 95 405 WCF. They were hit HARD with the factory Hornady
300 gr. loads. They were Dead Right There.
AMRA

I acquired an early 405 M1895 repro with a a Lyman 66 intalled.
The newer ones are even drilled and tapped for this sight. I shot some 2" groups at 100 with the Hornady 300gr Spire Point, it shot better than the round nose. I suggest against going above the 2100FPS lever, the prudent man approach is wise and
the elk, hogs, etc. wont know the difference. You will at the
butt end, and why abuse the gun? I dont like to fight my guns, food, and women at my age.

Estacado

FYI- I went to the range yesterday and chronographed the Hornady factory loads at 2226 and 2237 fps.
just my 02

My Hornady 300 gr FP factory ammo chronied at 2275 average for 10 shots with an extreme spread of 23 ft/sec. Not bad for factory ammo, and it shot very well.

Chrono results for the Hornady stuff better than I thought. A level certainly adequate for us mortal men.

Estacado

Yup. I was pretty impressed with it, and at usable ranges, it should be the hammer of Thor.

Pretty pricey, though. Up here I think a box of factory loads goes for just under $50. Makes the decision to reload a whole lot easier.

Jkingrph,
The fellow is Judge G over on the Accurate Reloading forum..He booked his buffalo hunt through me and I hunted him with Pierre van Tonder..I have booked him more than a few times over the years...We cussed and discussed this gun and he used it with 100% success in our Tanzania camp...I have tried to swap him out of it many times but he locked up on it...It duplicates the 450-400 exactly and how could it get any better. IMO it is the ultimate big bore lever rifle..Simply a long throated .405 Win wherein you can seat bullets out and get more powder in..A 400 gr. bullet at realistic 2000 to 2100 FPS is about ideal for any dangerous game...

Shootist...what powder are you using for the 300 grain Hornady bullets? I have only done a little loading for the .405 and just made 2250 with WW748.

I have both a stainless #1 and a modern Winchester 95 in .405...a great caliber especially if you love the .41 Magnum handgun..

My factory loads chronoed at 2194 and 2197 fps from the 95.

Shell reloading makes 400 grain solids and a SP for the .405 that doesn't require a long throat...I have not had a chance to load any yet however...

This is a pic of the bullet next two the Hornady and Barnes...




Bob

Varget, H4895 and Benchmark. Can't get any decent results from Varget -- don't know why. Accuracy is very marginal compared to loads with the other two.

Thanks... I've seen some loading data on the 4895 but not on Benchmark. Is there much difference between IMR and H 4895?

Bob

Can't say for sure, as I live in the sticks and have no real access to IMR4895. I have the Hodgdon variant, and I like it. Also load my wife's 30-06 with it.

In my 405 NO 1 i use 61 gns of varget for 1 inch or better groups I will chrony the speed tomorrow but i expect 2200 fps +I tried h4198 but it was too fast

AT THE RANGE 4 SHOTS IN 1 INCH AT 100 YDS AND AV 2349 FPS. VERY PLEASING AS I CHOSE BETWEEN A 450/400 AND THE 405 WIN, IT APPEARS TO BE THE SAME PERFORMANCE BUT THE CASES AND DIES ARE SO MUCH LESS TO PURCHASE.

Gents
Have a look at IMR 3031 for the 405 Winchester. I've loaded mine with IMR 4064 and IMR 4895, found IMR 3031 gave the best accuracy.
Don't overlook cast bullets for this caliber, anything you can do with jacketed can be done with cast. I sent a box of my 350 grain cast bullets to Zambia, Namibia, ???? for a fella to try.
He found the cast bullet will go thru a Warthog no matter what angle you shoot him. And will do like wise with a Kudu.


Jim

Fellow .405 shooters:
I found this thread some months ago when I first began hunting with my Miroku/Winchester 1895 .405 WCF. I have since taken a few head of game with it and it has become one of my favorite hunting rifles.
Because of this thread, I became interested in getting the most out of the 1895 .405 and followed up on the discussions on reaming out the throat to accomodate the Woodleigh 400 grain bullets. This convinced me to have it done, so my rifle is awaiting its turn at my gunsmiths to have a few thousandths reamed out to set the Woodleigh and Hornady 400 grain dummy cartridges (seated to the cannelure) no closer to the rifling that 25 thousandths inch.

When I get this all done, it will be off to the range to test fire the real Woodleigh and Hornady handloads. I will report back on the project as soon as possible.
Thanks to all that contributed to this very informative thread.

I obtained a throating reamer from Manson Reamers and extended the throat on my #1 by .280". According to my calculations this increased usable the powder capicity by about 15% and gave it slightly greater capicity than the .411 Hawk. Velocities, and presumably pressures, track well with pressure tested .411 Hawk data.

For the 300gn Barnes TSX my powder of choice is Benchmark since it is "temperature insensitive" and slower powders must be compressed excessively. Ramshot TAC should also work well. I load the 300 TSX at an overall length of 3.495" (.025" from the lands). 67.5gn of Benchmark and Federal 210 primers push them to 2520fps.

I load the 400gn Woodleigh (.411") soft point at and overall length of 3.510" ahead of either 60.0gn of TAC or 63.5gn of Reloader 15 for 2160fps. Reloader 15 is the more accurate of the two (0.6" @ 100yd). At 100yd the 400gn bullet strikes nine inches lower than the 300gn.

The above loads are, of course, suitable ONLY for Ruger #1s with extended throats.

I have detected no loss of accuracy with Hornady bullets at the factory loaded length.

Strangely the 400gn (.410") Hornady bullet was quite accurate when the bore was diry (~75 rounds fired) but after the bore was cleaned only one out of three touched the paper at 100yd and that one made and oblong hole. Best to stay with .411" bullets.

In case anyone would like to try this my throating reamer is now in the hands of my favorite gunsmith: Doug Wells, Lock, Stock & Barrel, Huson, Montana.

No 400 gr. bullet requires a long throat, a long throat serves to give the case more powder space as the bullet does not intrude on the powder capacity as much, thus you get more velocity, and at the same pressure levels..You can shoot any 400 gr. bullet of the proper diameter in any 405, you just lose quite a bit of velocity and thus its effectiveness on animals such as Lion, Cape Buffalo or whatever is marginal at best.

It works well in some calibers and not so well in others, the 7x57, 9.3x62 and the 405 are calibers that it really works well in..

wswolf - thank you for the information on your experience and for the load information. My initial powders will be N133 and TAC because of the good results that I have had with them with .405 300 grain North Fork bullets. If that does not work well enough with the 400 grain bullets, then I will try other powders.
It is good to hear further evidence that the 300 grain Hornady bullets are still accurate. Also, now it will not surprise me if the Hornady 400 grain .410 bullets do not shoot as well as the Woodleighs.

crshelton,
Be aware that 400 gr. bullets in .411 are available from Huntingtons and they are Woodleigh brand. They are super accurate in the .405 Win. Mod. 95 and would also be good in the Ruger No.1...

Ray,
Thanks for the notes on the Woodleighs - I did buy a box of 50 each of the Woodleigh .411 400 grain softs and solids. I bought the Hornadys because they are made in the USA, and have loaded up 15 each with N133 and TAC, but if they are inaccurate, I will pull the remainder and use the cases and powders for the Woodleighs.
I have heard nothing but good about the Woodleighs and will give them a good try when my rifle returns from the gun smith. Next, I will try some lighter bullets, as this rifle should be able to accurately shoot cast and jacketed from 200 to 400 grains - great flexibility for a great rifle.

Did you ever find the 1895 .405 that you wanted?

I should have included the loads I used before the throating job. Note that the following were used in a Ruger #1 and I could not recommend them for a Model 95.

400gn (.411") Woodleigh
Overall length: 3.235"
56.0 gn Reloader 15 -- 1940 fps
53.5 gn TAC -- 1990 fps

Both TAC and Benchmark gave excellent results with 300gn Hornady SP and Barnes TSX. Only used Benchmark with the 300gn Northfork and got fine accuracy and slightly higher velocity (30 fps)than with the other bullets. My only try with Varget, 60gn behind a Hornady FP (3.15" o.l.), went 2280fps and was very accurate.

Nice to see this post still growing...since I last posted my .405 battery has grown but my time to shoot/reload for them shrank... I added a both a TC Encore barrel and a Winchester 1885 HiWall to the collection...now to get out and do some shooting...

What I can not imagine however is a 400 grain bullet at 2100 fps from a 95...I replaced the steel buttplate with a thin Pachmayer Decellorator pad and it made all the difference in the world with the 300 grain factory loads...but another 100 grains...wow...

Bob

RJM,

I am sure the stock design of the M-95 is one of the least effective designs to absorb recoil..I know my M-95 SRC in 30-06 is a tad abusive..

If I had a .404 I would definately restock it with a shotgun butt model and add a good quality recoil pad..In fact I am thinking seriously of restocking my 06...

Additionally I will add that adding a recoil to my SRC would not be much help inasmuch as the surface area or the butt plate is so small.

RJM,
This limbsaver pad on my 1895 .405 seems to work well with all the 300 grain loads. It will be interesting to see how much different the 400 grain loads feel.

The first owner had installed the pad and this Williams FP sight - I have not had to adjust the peep yet, as he did a great job of sighting it in.

The Decelerator pad takes most of the bite out of the 300 grain loads as it is a shotgun butt... I had it fitted to the same screw holes as the original pad so it can be put back to original. I have a slipon pad that I can use if I do try some of the heavier loads.

I am very intrigued about the lengthening of the chamber .280" to allow 400 grain bullets to be used. That is something I would really want to try in the Ruger.

I only wish my 95 was D&T for the receiver sight..I have an early one that is not...just have to have it done one day...

Bob

RJM,
Since I have no specific information on how much throat to ream, my gunsmith will be reaming and trying and measuring until the dummy rounds are just 25 to 30 thousandths off the lands. He has promised to keep records and tell me how much he has to ream to accomplish this. When I get the rifle back, I will post that information on this thread. If this works as well for me as it has for others, a friend of mine will be looking to buy his own 1895 .405 takedown to have the same work done on it.

crshelton,
Contact Judge Ernest Gilbert at [email protected] and find out who his gunsmith was. He had all the needed specs for that conversion including what needed to be done to the feed..If that eamail doesn't work, then email me for a telephone number. I know he was getting 2000 plus FPS and he shot several cape buffalo with us with that gun as I recall.

The new Win. 95s will take a very heavy load as they are made of much better steel I am told..I know that my Win 95 carbine will take the same max 30-06 load that my Mauser or Win. pre 64 will take..I wouldn't do the conversion on one of the old 95s..

Ray,
Thank you for the info. JudgeG is one of the people with whom I have been corresponding on this matter and he has been very helpful on the throat issue and on how his magazine was altered.
After the throat job and 400 grain bullets work out, I may look into the work on the magazine.

I contacted Judge Gilbert. He was very helpful. Mr Ferrell is going to be getting some more business. Thanks Ray!