I am new to speer products, and my 375 H&H is shooting the 270 BTSP's very well....is this bullet similar in construction to the nosler partition?

I am thinking of using this on moose and bear,

thanks

No, the Speer boat tail soft point is in no way similar to a Nosler Partition. The Speer is a cup-and core bullet -- a gilding metal jacket surrounding a lead core. The Nosler Partition jacket is divided into two portions, with a lead core in each end separated by a gilding metal "partition". It is designed to blow the front end off for expansion, then the partition end continues through like a solid for penetration.

When it was designed -- perhaps copied from the German H-Mantel might be more accurate -- it was pretty much the only "premium" bullet available to American handloaders. It is an archaic design that has been superceded by better bullets for several decades, but its adherents are feverishly dedicated to it. (I suspect I ought to don my Nomex about now... .) I personally do not like them, because I've never been able to get them to shoot worth anything in any of my rifles, and I don't like a bullet designed to blow bits and pieces of it through the animal. Those who like them, though, really like them.

Speer boattails tend to be expremely accurate in every rifle I shoot them in, and perform very well on game up to caribou size or so. I would not use them on moose and bear on purpose, though shooting half an ounce or more of lead and copper tends to correct for a lot of omissions in design. Were I to want to shoot a Speer bullet at moose or bear, I would shoot a 285 gr Grand Slam. I have not tried them in my .375 Ruger, but I have shot a pile of game with 250 GS's in my .35 Whelen, and they worked quite well on elk and moose. My .375 does shoot 270 gr TSX's very well, so you might try them as well.

Dennis

Not many bullets are equal to the nosler partition IMO..

Those who like them, generally really like them. I don't. Don't like Dodges and Brownings either .

Dennis

They are not equal as others have stated. I would use the 270 gr "Average Bullet" for anything up to elk for anything but bison and heavy bear. Just so you know, There is 300 gr nosler partitions going for $26.70 at
website: http://www.shootersproshop.com/?p=11&b=8&s=150&t=375
or www.shootersproshop.com under the "factory 2nds" for less than the sierras are going for. I'd buy them while you can. I just bought 200 and wish I could have bought 1000.
But, from what others have said, 300 gr sierras are very good bullet for not being premium or partition style bullets. I'll be testing them my self. I've had great accuracy from sierra GK in all calibers, but when it counts a better constructed bullet will not make you hesitate.
Take advantage of the partition sale now. even if you cant shoot them well in your rifle, You could get rid of them later for equal or better bullets.
In my experience, Sierra GK and Barnes TSX have had great accuracy. TSX is expensive, but very well worth it. They expand in small game but penetrate deeep. Sierra is good for a light to medium bullet in the game range for caliber. Partitions are supposed to be great, but I have to test them yet.
They could be my favorite bullet at this factory discount for a premium bullet. I just have to see if they're accurate.

Get the partitions. They've been around forever, just like the H&H, and I've never heard anything bad about them from actual hunters. In the 60s they were THE bullet.

Thanks, Gohip. I already have a couple hundred ABs and will order a couple hundred partitions. Always looking for a good buy.

I may order some GS bullets too. The idea of Weatherby power and range and TSX killing punch in a relative low-pressure load fascinates me.

Well, they both fly out the end of the barrel when you pull the trigger but that's where the similarities end.

I'm pretty sure I'm an "actual hunter", and I don't have much good to say about Partitions. Tried them for several years, in the 70's and 80's, when they were among "the bullets". Never got good accuracy, and didn't like the fragmentation effect. I greatly preferred Speer Grand Slams, until they changed them from the dual-core originals to just another cup and core.

The 60's were a long time ago. There are several better bullets now, and most of the bullets available today, even the "standards", are quite a bit better than they used to be.

Partitions kill just fine, and are a good choice for those who like them. But they are by no means the only choice, nor even the best choice. In my opinion, after killing big game for the past 30-some years, in a dozen states and a couple of foreign countries.

But truly, your mileage may vary...

Dennis

For bear and moose -- No way

Muledeer,
The early Nosler still touted by some even today, as you know were screw machine bullets and I couldn't get them to shoot. I also didn't particularly like the way they performed on game from time to time..

Todays Nosler is one of my favorite bullets and if I don't want it to fragment the frontal portion I simply go to a heavier weight in the same bullet.

I particularly like the 400 gr. 416 bullet on Buffalo. I don't like Nosler partitions in below .270 caliber.

Opinions vary and I have as much hunting experience as anyone on this side of the big pond, and recognize that you also have that amount of experience...You don't like'em, Ross Seyfried loves them, I love them, and Phil Shoemaker likes X bullets, so there ya go...Different strokes for different folks.

I believe the biggest mistake that hunters make in judging bullets is to use the bullet maker as the criteria for judging bullets...It just won't work.

IMO some bullet makers make the best 277 bullets or 308 bullets and another maker may make the best 416 or 375 bullet..thus the constant conflict...

I love the 130 gr. Speer in the .284 cal. but don't particularly like Speer bullets in general..the same applies to the 250 gr. Sierra 375 bullet, its a real dandy killer and performs to perfection, but IMO most Sierra bullets suck! As I said, I love Noslers but only in .277 cal and up. I love the old 75 gr. Barnes X in my 6x45, but have had many failures with Barnes X...I don't like the very popular Swift bullets as I believe them to ball up too smooth, stop on the offside skin and sometimes leave me with a long trail and no blood, but only on plainsgame, as they seem to work well on buffalo???? There are just so many varibles when it comes to bullets that I doubt if any of us will really know who is right or wrong, if any of us are.

The point I am trying to make and some may disagree is that I like certain bullets and the maker means nothing to me, I only judge the bullet itself...I have never seen this in print btw..

Ray, that may be the most sense any of us have made on bullets on the Internet . I have to say -- I have never tried Partitions in any caliber over .284. You have just jarred some scales loose from my hardened thinking...

I have had wonderful success with Speer boattails and Grand Slams in .257, .277, and .284 diameters. Good results with the old Speer GS's in the Whelen -- but we know what the marketeers did to that bullet.

I like TSX's really well, in 6.5, .284 and .338. They shoot well in my .375 Ruger, but I haven't punched anything with one yet.

But you are ever so right -- it does frequently vary by bullet within a manufacturer's lineup.

Hmmm...might have to rethink Partitions in .338 and up...

Thanks...that is a very thought-provoking post.

Dennis

Ray, Muledeer( John) - as opposed to muledeer without capitalization (Dennis)- also loves the Nosler Partitions - as do I. In fact I have killed a lot more game with partitions than X bullets and the newer large bore partitions typically penetrate as deep as x bullets.
they are just not as environmentally friendly and you know what a PC, sensitive type guy I am.

Ray,

Can you elaborate on the "screw machine" Noslers, please? Are you referring to "screw presses," which Nosler uses a lot on their current production? They've been updated to use computer controls to allow an operator to work more than one machine, but they're still screw presses.

But maybe I've missed the point?

Edited to say: the lead wire itself for the bullets are formed from a hydraulic press.

Clearly they are not equal bullets, nor would I use them interchangeably. And while the Speer is probably best used as a longer distance elk type bullet on the heavy end of things, I have no doubt that it would work just fine on bear or moose in many cases as well. That said, I can't imagine why I'd go moose or bear hunting with it when I could just as easily choose the Nosler instead.

I don't think I'd try the Speer on large bear. But on Moose come on my Aunt and Uncle used to stack them like cord wood with the 6MM Remington and 100 Core-Lokts� .

In the H&H, any bullet will do meese!
As for bears, most Alaskans I've met seem quite secure with a Super Blackhawk for protection.

I tried Barnes X once for brown bear, it worked in 350 grain flavor in .416 Taylor. I tried Nosler Partition in 9.3x62, 286 grain flavor on black bear. The X bullet broke the off side shoulder on the brown bear and exited. The Partition didn't exit that I could find on the black bear. Heavier Nosler Partitions are supposed to have heavier jackets, yet I have this puzzle I have no solution for. I like the .375 diameter Speer 300 grain BTSP for long range use, on paper targets. With the experince of those who post here, I think I'll keep them for elk or moose hunting.

Have absolutely no idea why anyone "needs" a 0.375" bullet for moose when a 0.308" bullet works so well.

At moderate velocities, I have found that Hornady Interlocks worked fine, but when the speed goes over 3K, a tougher design can be more useful. Partitions work good, the TSX seems to do the trick for me, and I have found them to hold a little tighter groups in my rifles.

Wonderful to have so many great bullets at our disposal.

....and mooses have bigger and harder bones and greater size in general than do the bears on average, so....what was the question again? Partitions are never a poor answer though!

Dennis,
The 210 Nosler .338 will out penetrate the Nosler 250 gr. in the .338...I suppose because it is going faster and the partition works at both weights or perhaps the 210 partition blows off, but what ever the case the 210 Nosler is an awesome bullet in the .338 IMO...The 300 gr. Woodleigh is a real tough cookie to beat, its a hammer on anything and you get a lot of pass throughs with it, and the ones recovered are about like a baseball..I am not fond of the 225 Nosler as its neither fish nor fowl..The 250 Nosler will give you pretty mushrooms and does a pretty good job on anything, it may not penetrate like the 210 but it certainly does the job. Some folks like a bullet to expand all its energy in the animal and some like two holes..I personally lean towards two holes, but have seen some fantastic kills when a bullet stops on the off side skin..

Ray, so which .270 bullets did you like and not?

I like an animal that leaks out both sides. We've hashed out the fallacy of "energy transfer" enough not to go there again -- I believe holes in both sides are a pretty good indication that everything in between was broken in the process, and breaking important body parts is mostly what I'm interested in. Secondarily, I like body fluids running out two sides of an animal. As Elmer would have put it -- it lets the hot air out and the cold air in better.

Dennis

Though I don't have any experience with the Nosler Partitions in 375 H&H caliber, I've been shooting Nosler partitions in my 270 Winchester for about 35 years. I switched to Swift A-Frames for awhile (they're probably a better bullet for tougher game), but never got quite the same accuracy with them I did with the Noslers in my particular rifle. 150g Nosler Partitions in 270 caliber kill elk, deer and black bear just fine. Never had less than complete penetration, but I usually waited for a broadside or quartering behind the shoulder shot if at all possible.

Regards,

Chuck

Exactly, and I used to load them in 150 gr variety in my wife's '06. UNTIL, I found that the TSX shot nicer groups for her. If Barnes quit making bullets tomorrow, we've still got enough Nosler Partitions to make life expectancy on the local moose population very bleak.

Jaywalker,
the screw machine Noslers are identified by the machine marks on the bullet and the more brass color is about all I can tell you and they never shot very well and they always blew the front section completely off and made a caliber size exit hole..I was never overly fond of them although they killed everything I ever shot with them...At any rate I like the new Nosler much better.

RinB,
In the .270 I have had exceptional luck with the 130, 150 and 160 gr. Noslers..Below 270 they have worked but not as well as I would like, particularly in the 22, 6mm and 25 calibers where they from time to time fail to leave any blood trail and don't die until the body cavity/lungs fill with blood and they travel a good ways, crawl in a hole and you can't find them. evem with a good hit. It is rare but it has and does happen.

They look like that.

I've killed 2 muleys with 180-grain screw-machine partitions from an '06, two muleys with 160 grain seconds (with machined cannelure) out of a 280, and two with 140 grain seconds out of a 280. In a total sample size of six, the 180-grainer was the most decisive killer. All bullets exited.

One elk with a 180-grainer out of a 300WM - dropped with a spine shot (missed high). Bullet exited.

One moose with two 180-grainers out of 300WM - both shots in high lungs, second hit both shoulder blades and dropped moose. Neither exited. Moose had a 375-caliber partition encased in scar tissue in his hump area, and one of the backstraps was riddled with tough, white scar tissue. Don't texas-heartshoot a moose.

One moose with one 180 grainer out of a 30-06. Moose dropped after a 15-yard saunter. Bullet found against hide.

No "failures" to speak of. The screw-machined 180-grainer gave ~1.5" 5-shot groups at 100 yards. The 140 grainer in 280 was really, really accurate...

Amen brother!

How many grains of which powder do you load under a dodge?

I favor C-4 for Dodges. A pound or two is usually enough...

Dennis

I don't think the Speer mentioned is quite the bullet the Nosler is although the Speer is very accurate from my 375 and I used it for load devlopment getting to the 275 Bitterroot.

I've used Nosler Partitions in calibers from 25 to 375,on stuff from antelope to brown bear,and never had anything to complain about.Some have exited and some have stopped against the offside,but I can't see a correlation between how fast they killed and whether they exited or not. I will defer to those with more experience than I on the matter.

I've used the screw machines as well,and even to this day,I have a supply of about 250 270-130's,a small hoarde of 30-180's,and a pair of 270's that like them. Earlier this week a new FN M70 270 ground out tiny clusters at 100 yards with the things loaded with 61 H4831.

Notwithstanding the plastic tipped wonders so popular today(forgive me but I fail to see the magic), I think the Partition is the perfect deer bullet for large northern deer as it ALWAYs expands IME (out to 500 yards,as far as I have used it)yet penetrates deeply enough to bust up bone under any circumstance encountered.

I've had elk drop like sash weights from 180's and 160 7mm's and I believe the 160 7mm to be a somewhat deeper pentrator than the 180 30 cal.I have driven the 200 grain 30 cal in a 300 Weatherby from the hip of a big bull elk to the off-side shoulder, breaking it.The 210 fired from a 340 Weatherby has lots of crunch as well.The 165's from the 30/06 is totally reliable; driven over 3200 from a 300 mag,it makes a larger exit than the smaller 7mm's and 270's.

The 140 7mm is a bomb driven to 3200+ from a big 7 and I have yet to recover one from anything,fired from 7/08,7x57,280,and 7RM.

The 270 Screw Machine 375 left buckets of blood on an Alaskan beach pointing the exact route of departure of a brown bear after yours truly botched the first shot and managed a solid chest hit on #3.I was grateful for the roadsign....

I don't disagree that the Nosler design is old,and that it may be trumped by more modern stuff today and IME was trumped years ago by the Bitterroot,but the game is precisely the same today as it was in the 60's, and I value predictability over the promises of greater things,and have found that if you put a Nosler Partition in the right place it is generally "over"; and if it isn't,you did not put it in the right place.

As to accuracy,I have shot so many sub MOA groups to 500 yards with the Partition that I can assure anyone,if your rifle does not shoot them,it is not the bullet,but your rifle that's off, or loading tecnique. Try reading your runout.I have had some rifles that don't like them but they have been very few and far between. OTOH I don't expect 1/4" groups from hunting rifles as this is supersilious nonsense unless you are a hardcore long range expert and can find the difference in accuracy.

My present 300 Weatherby shoots the federal factory load with 180 Partition at 3150 so well,that I have found no reason to handload the rifle.If leaving tomorrow for wherever,and whatever short of dangerous game, I could grab 3 boxes of the stuff and know anything I draw down on is kaput.

I think that anyone today who thinks an AB is a better bullet for shooting game than a Partition has also bought into Obama's economic stimulus plan.

BTW the quickest killing bullets I have used on average have been the Bitterroots,and there are no expanding bullets that I am aware of today that perform better;no not even the Barnes X.Sorry.When driven at high velocity,thier reliable,ferocious,early expansion, large frontal area,and high weight retention(usually as high as an X or within a couple grains),chops large wound channels,breaks heavy bones,and penetrates as deeply as needed on about anything.I have seen exits on a large Alaskan brown from a 250 gr 375 that was large enough to fit a baseball. The first bullet,recovered against the hide after smashing both shoulders,weighed 249 grains,and had expanded to 3/4".The same thing happens with 130's and 140's on smaller game;DRT's accompanied by internal train wrecks,the reason I scratch my head when I hear the alleged vrtues of bullets that splinter being the ticket for quick kills.

I regard the Partition as the "Gold Standard " by which other bullets should be judged. I never used any of the older variety because I was "too busy to hunt" in those days. I recovered one from an eland that went through the spine and weighed 259/286grs.
Another on the same hunt weighed 212grs recovered from a wildebeest (9.3x62). A recovered Barnes TSX weighed 269/300grs from a 375 H&H (very close shot on an eland). My first trip to Africa was powered by Federal High Energy loads with 180gr Partitions in 30.06. My son killed his first elk with the same load. I have found partitions to be very accurate(sub MOA if you can do it.)
Most of the time I get total penetration and very few bullets I have used have been recovered.
I have been shooting the new Northforks and am very impressed with their accuracy but I have not used them on game.
I'm still of the opinion that a Winchester PP or a Remington corelokt will kill just fine on most deer sized game and premium bullets are just that.
If I'm going to Africa or Alaska I'll use Partitons because it makes me feel I've done all I can do. If I'm in my backyard I'll probably pick up a box of whatever I know shoots in that rifle. I've never been able to get Speers to shoot in my 9.3.
BobinNH is right!