Gents, do you all see much good reason to convert a 9.3x57 to a 9.3x62? It's an easy conversion (rechamber and probable glass bed) but it seems to me it's about like converting a rifle in 8mm Mauser to 30-06. A bit more fps (100-200?) and that's about it. Am I looking at this wrong?

It would depend on a whole host of things. If it were a Husqvarna "M98" that had been drilled and tapped and modified to be "current", then converting it to 9.3x62 would be useful, because you could pick up probably 400 fps with 286 gr bullets. If it were a pristine rifle, then maybe not. If it's a Husky "M96", like mine, then I would say leave it shooting the cartridge it was built for. Their rifles are quite strong, but that's still pressing the development, in my opinion.

And since I can shoot 250 gr Woodleighs at 2300 fps, I think my 9.3x57 works just fine for hunting.

By the way...your title is a little confusing, because I have a 9x57 too, and have never heard of a 9x62.

Dennis

Sorry, I meant 9.3.

And, thanks for your info.

I have read that some 9.3x57 chambers are oversize in the neck area which, when reamed to 62 will leave a step in the neck (and the fired case). Might want to have a chamber cast made and measured if you decide to ream it.

Thanks. Will look at that.

The 9.3 X 62 is a whole lot more useful in the field. I indtend to do just such a conversion.

That depends on what you're shooting with it and how far away it is... .

It is a good bit more powerful, which may or may not be more useful.

Dennis

if it is a small ring mauser you might find some 9.3x62 factory ammo to long to fit in the magazine.

advntrjinky,
Why would that be, a small ring is the same length as std. Mauser designed around the 8x57 cartridge and more than suitablel for the 9.3x62 which is basically 06 length.????

The 9.3x57 or 9x57 are balistic twins to the proven .358 Win. and thats high praise...

The 9.3x62 is darn close to a balistic twin of the 375 H&H in that I can get 2400 FPS with a 320 gr. Woodleigh in the 9.3 or 2500 FPS a 300 gr. Woodleigh in my .375 H&H, based on the way I load them both. That boils down to a 20 grs. more in the 9.3 or 100 FPS more in the 375, a pretty fair trade off to equal IMO...

Take your pick..The 9.3x62 is considerably more powerful, but power only works if you have a need for it. I doubt that on this side of the ocean it would make much difference as I would not hesitate to shoot the biggest bear with a 9.3x57 or a 9x57 for that matter. In Africa I would feel some better with a 9.3x62.

the 8x57 has a COL of 3.250" the 30/06 COL is 3.34". the magazine boxes in the LR mauser differ in the same way. the SR mauser can only take the shorter 3.250" catridges.....some factory 9.3x62 or 30/06 might fit the shorter mag box, but some will not (husqvarna did make SR in 30/06 and 9.3x62). Large ring mausers can come with either length mag box. the shorter LR mag box can safely be legthened to 30/06 length.....not so in the SR. all I am saying is to check the internal length of your mag box. if it is not 3.34" it will not fit a lot of factory 9.3x62 ammo, as it is loaded to fit the 3.34" bag box.

advntrjnky

ETA: the above is because the SR mauser is approx. 3/8" shorter than the LR, and most of that difference is in the mag box.

How do these velocities look for the 9.3x62?

9.3x57 just looks mean

I have 2 M46 Huskies, both were 9,3x57 and both have been rechambered to 9,3x62! There is no step in the neck area or any problem what so ever! Husqvarna made many M46's in 9,3x62! They are a joy to shoot and spot on about the close equality to the 9,5 calibres! Enjoy, your conversion! Oh, and yes I do have a GEW 98 in 9x57, .356 bore!

I have a Husky 96 in 9.3 X57.Restoked it to a German stalking rifle and put a Lyman receiver sight on it. It weighs about 6 pounds soaking wet. When you light the trigger off the bench due to the weight and stock design, it lights you up pretty well. This rifle is a joy to carry tho.It is about the same off the bench as my CZ in 375 H&H. No biggie

I wouldn't convert a nicely balanced stalking rifle in 9.3x57 to 9.3x62; you already have something very nice, so why change it? What game are you hunting that the conversion would be useful?

That out of the way, I took a plain-Jane H&R 330 (FN98) action and rebarreled (25.5 inch Lothar Walther) to 9.3x62. I also installed a Timney and a M70 style safety. I need to upgrade the stock (Hogue, currently) to something better, but I'm very satisfied with the project, on the whole. The rifle is no lightweight and is a pleasure to shoot, even with the full tilt (BigGame/286 gr bullets) loads.

I like the rifle very much, but I recently bought a Mannlicher .30/06 which is much more a "stalking rifle" design, if you catch my drift. Both rifles are great, but they are very different. My point would be that you shouldn't try to make the rifle into something that it's not, when it's pretty darn good as it is.

My 9.3x62 was a double square bridge Brno Mod. 21, that had a damaged barrel, probably from a cleaning rod or something..I had the barrel copied and the original barrel band rear sight, barrel band front sight and the barrel band sling swivel reinstalled and since it was copied the inletting was good to go. The only change was I went with a 26 inch barrel as the 9.3x62 really appreciates those long tubes in the velocity dept.

I get 2552 FPS with a 286 gr. Nosler, 2700 FPS plus a bit with a 250 Barnes X, and 2419 av. FPS with the wonderful 320 gr. Woodleigh SP and solids..Pretty close to my 375 H&H with a 300 gr. bullet at 2500 FPS so I shoot 20 grs. more bullet in the 9.x62 but my 375 gets me another 100 FPS over the 9.3, so thats about a push...That said I could pump up the 375 another 100 FPS os so..

I had very little tweeking to make the 9.3x62 feed in the Brnos long box. Only a tad of rail work. Gun would appear totally original to most folks, but its not, and Brno never made the gun in 9.3x62, only 7x57, 6.5x57, 7x64 and 8x57...It was an interesting project and gave me a 8 lb. rifle to pack all day in the African heat for Buff or Lion and it holds 5 rounds. Not a bad deal at all.

I quite agree with Bro' Atkinson on this issue. In the last 20 years, I have owned 4; 9.3x62's, 2; 9.3x57's, and 3; 9.3x74R's. (And still own all but 3 of them...) And I like them all. That said, there isn't anything on this continent that I wouldn't tackle with a 9.3x57. In a recent conversation with writer and gunsmith: Dieter Sturm he opined exactly the same thing.

The 9.3x62 does have a slight advantage in availability of factory ammo, but to a handloader it's a non issue. I have never formed brass, but I have made LOTS of 9x57 from 8x57 and it's no issue at all. Another .008" bullet diameter will likely not be noticed.

I find that all too often folks in this august group, tend to look at a given cartridge as what's it's NOT, rather than what it IS!

But then the general tendency these days is: Bigger scopes, longer barrels, and larger powder capacity. Sadly many fine things go often overlooked in the quest to best someone else.

Me go now...

Grasshopper

Frequently people who are right are also misunderstood by many who are not... .

Dennis

Dennis,

That's the story of my life.

I understand that.

Let's start a club!

I think I have Neanderthal DNA, as do all of my actual friends. The rest are, well...different... .

Dennis

Another thing we have in common.

I can't see what all the hoo-haa is about...there is about 10 gr of H2O difference between the cases...that's about 2.5% difference in velocity or 70-100 fs if both cases are loaded to the same pressure using the same bullet weight. Not enought to waste all this time or space over whizzing in the wind.

I can't see hardly any difference in the case other than the x62 is longer.

I build a 9.3x62 a few years ago, I wanted a 9.3 cal to fill out my caliber range...I also looked at the 9.3x57, but opted for the x62 because I could buy ammo and cases for it...I also have rifles in 338 through 50 cal.

Both cases were designed for use in different rifles at different times and for different reasons, none of which had anything to do with the others.

Enjoy which ever one you happen to have and forget all the comparison BS...all it does is make you "think" you might have something "better" and keep the weenywaving going on.

You want to rave about your shooter...go out and shoot something, then tell everyone how well it did and forget about comparing it to some other cartridge.

There are just so many other factors involved in taking game that cartridge selection takes up about 10% of the whole.

Interesting...I own a 9.3x57, and had a 9.3x62 for a couple of years. Both are 24" barrels, and I shot them side by side over my chronograph. All I can say is that the x62 ran 300 to 400 fps faster than the x57, depending on the load.

I don't disagree that most of the differences aren't relevant, until you get up to larger or dangerous animals. Then I think a 286 gr bullet at 2400-2500 fps would make a difference vs one at 2000 fps.

AS far as the "hoo-haa" concept -- well of course we do... . That's half of what participating in a forum is all about...

Dennis

Ok so I picked up a Husky LR'98 in 9.3x57 and can't find a lot of load data. Steelhead pointed me toward the Norma site, but does anyone have anything else?

I'm looking to use the 270 gr Speer for deer... nice rhyme there... they were meant to be together .

I'll PM you some of my data this weekend.

Dennis

You can find more free data here, from Vihtavuori/Lapua for their powders, of course (and very fine powders they are too).

Be aware that that 270gr Speer has a bad reputation for core separation and fragmentation with little penetration here in Sweden where 9.3's are common.

However, this bad reputation is the result of using said bullet on moose, not deer. I expect that the bullet is too soft for moose, but will kill a deer quite quickly. I think you will be happy with it!

I do not know if you can get them or how expensive they would be where you live, but a fine 9.3 bullet is the Norma Oryx (a bonded bullet). They exit on a moose about half the time, and the 12 or 14 bullets that I have recovered from butchering moose all looked like something you would expect in an advert. Impressive accuracy too!



John

See no data there.

Well, I see it at the right hand side "download" but I sure agree that it is not obvious!

Right click here to save the pdf file to your hard disk. (I hope!).

John

You're not following me, there's no 9.3x57 data, none on the online HTML stuff nor in that PDF.

Ah, my apologies. I could have sworn that I got 9.3 x 57 data from there 2 or 3 years ago when teaching a friend how to reload for his older Husqvarna.

Maybe they dropped the 9.3 x 57 data? I will see if I saved the old pdf manual on my hard disk in my other computer.

Chances are, however, that I am mixing things up!

John

I've been running RL15.

Thank you very much for your help JPB; I appreciated your assistance, particularly given your experience with the bore diameter.

I'd seen where another person with experience said that of the Speer 270 when flung from the larger x62; I was hoping that perhaps the -400 fps through the x57 might help on that?

I'll do some penetration tests with 'em... that is half the fun of a new rifle/caliber!

I'm looking for data using our domestic powders if possible. Hoping somebody stateside w/ experience might have insight.

Thanks again,

efw

Good point! Now that I think about it, I would say that most of the shots I mention were indeed 9.3 x 62s (I know one guy in my hunting team uses a 9.3x57 and he killed 5 or 6 moose in recent years that I can recall, but I think the others have 9.3x62s.

I think you are right about a little less velocity being kinder to the bullets. I would bet that the 9.3 x 57 will be just fine with any bullet of reasonable sectional density for even quite large critters.

On the topic of reloading data: I checked my other computer's hard disk, and found no copy of an older Vihtavuori reloading manual (which might have had 9.3 x 57 data).

John

A source you might find useful-

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=50

Handloading the 9.3x57-

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=645

Those guys could over complicate a piss.

Yeah, Seems like there is some info there though. Not fans of KISS for sure.

Just want to clear up one little misconception that appeared on this thread: The 9.3x62 was NOT designed to fit into a .30-06 length magazine, but an 8x57 length magazine. That was it's whole purpose, to provide a relatively powerful yet inexpensive rifle that could be built on the standard 98 sction for German settlers in Africa. You will find that any factory 9.3x62 ammo (even Nosler's) will fit in a standard 8x57 98 action.

That said, if I were only hunting non-dangerous game in North America I'd leave a good 9.3x57 alone. The 9.3x57 is so close to the relatively mild 9.3x62 factory loads that there is no practical difference. Only when the 9.3x62 is loaded up to 60,000+ psi does it become the functional equivalent of the .338 Winchester or .375 H&H, and darn few of us really need one of those.

Ditto for Mule Deer. This thread is getting way of in the boonies.

Goto Steves Pages for some load info... http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

Surf the web...I came across quite a bit of data on ALL the 9.3x?? when I was deciding which cartridge to use with my VZ-24 conversion. The old LA Tang model Rugers are almost identical to the VZ-24 in many respects.

The case capacity of the 9.3 or ANY of the x57 cases is roughly 62 to 65 gr H2O...the x63 is 72-76 gr H2O....about 16-17%...ANY reloading data for ANY caliber, for cases of 62-65 gr H2O CASE CAPACITY can be used, AT THE LOWER END, to develop reloading data for the x57, it doesn't matter the actual case LENGTH. It is the INTERNAL volume of the case that determines the reloading capacity within a reasonable range.

You could start with reloading data for a 308 size case as it has similar case capacity...the 358 Win or 338 Fed...and there is a 9.3 x 358(308) and a 375x308/358 if you dig deep enough...or use 8x57 or 9x57 data for heavy bullets and start on the low end of the scale and work up...

OR...because the x57 case is about 17% less case capacity than the X62 You can use ANY x62 data for individual bullet by weight, straight across the board, by REDUCING the charge weight by 20-22% and be at a beginning load for the 9.3x57.

Never could figue out why we complicate things other than the penchant for men to always go one-up on each other.

I don't have a 9.3x57 to compare actual velocities to the 9.3x63 so I can't speak to the actual velocity differences between these two specific cases, but I have compared a 7x57mm and a 7x57 AI, a 250 Sav and 250 Sav AI, and the same for a friends 257 R and 257 R AI, using the same rifles only rechambered and the chronoed differences held up in those three cases, roughly 2-3% of the actual case volume increase...

Loaded to the same pressures with the same bullets, powder, barrel length, etc, calculated or othewise, I've never seen a whole lot of increase in the velocity, the most being with the 250 Sav and 257 AI at 150 - 225 fs and that was because of an increase in pressure over factory loaded ammo...nothing in the 400 fs range, without some other change in parameters like pressure or barrel length, bullet weight etc...but each rifle does it's own thing.

All things being equal I would expect to see 70-150 fs increase in velocity between the two cases, which as far as the animal goes, ain't no thang.

Of course if you change anything, all bets are off. I have a 22" 7mmRM take-off barrel for a Savage I somehow acquired and a 26" 280 RM I built for my sis-in-law...I quarantee I get equal to or more velocity out of the 26" tube than the 22" tube and use about 10-12% less powder to do it...this is with all weights of bullets. The difference between the 280 RM and the 7mmRM is just about the same as the difference between the x57 and x62...16-17%...and that is also keeping the 280 RM at the lower SAAMI spec for that cartridge.

Maybe this info will help somewhat...but I'm guessing it will only serve to keep the pot stirred up.

NFG
Good basic advice on start loads. As always prudence pays off.
Randy

MD-

Did you, the proprietor of a publication with 'rifle loony' in the title, just use the word "need" in reference to a rifle ?

I do agree, however, and had intended to rechamber my x57 M98 to x62 but have decided against it... for now anyway... until the "need" should arise... even if in my imagination alone!

Sounds like we're still discussing 9.3x57 vs. x62 to me?



Thank you for this reference. It has a load for the x57 that I don't think I'd seen.



You're right, however I'd love to get some data on domestic powders... particularly those that my other rifles love... there isn't alot of that around, so I hoped that someone who had experience with the cartridge here might have insight.



Compared to finding lab-tested or at least trusted-peer-tested loads that I can reduce and start back up to, what you suggest above seems more complicated, but likely to be exactly what I end up doing, so I do appreciate the step-by-step description.



Yep. Likely the latter. That is ok, cuz this is a discussion board. I for one appreciate the opportunity to interact with other loonies who obsess over this minutae!

Thanks for the suggestions; I'll likely put them to use.

The best advise and data I've gotten have come from Steelhead concerning RL-15 and its ballistic similarities to a particular European powder that provides a safe starting point, so I'll run w/ that.

For goodness sakes, to convert a 9.3x57 to a 9.3x62 is such a minor conversion that I can do it with my fingernail and the 9.3x62 is a bunch more power regardless of what some have so printed!

Mule Deer,
Your correct of course in that the 98 Mausers are all disigned around the 57 MM cartridge but most have rather long magazine boxes and conversions are extremely simple if you go to the 06 or 9.3 and in many cases no work other than a rebarrel and rechambering is required, sometimes some rail work and lengthening is required..why this is I have no clue....I know the Brno Mod 21 and 22 Mausers have very long boxes and very lengthy throats for thier 8x57 and 7x57, to the point that you can get 8 and 7 x 57 Ackley IMP velocity from them.

Mr. A is right...and we're really talking about the difference between a 308 and 30-06, 358W and 35 Whelen, etc...you always gain by "something" going to a larger case, higher velocity or heavier bullet weight.

The X62 has a nice large case capacity as is at 75 gr H2O...the only way to get more is to step up to a larger diameter case which brings in other costly mods and if you need/want more thump you need to go to a longer receiver and/or a larger case anyway.

As an aside...you could do a wildcat using a RUM case shortened to about 2.35", shoulders blown out to about 0.530" with a 0.350" long neck and 3.30" COAL and get 100-105 gr H20 for a very nice, high capacity case and still use the M98 action....more cost and why????

Basically a lot of money for not much gain and the x62 case has a large case capacity already, will kill anything walking the planet when you do your job...Mine is my "pickup Queen", open sighted, it rides with me most of the time along with a 50 round box of ammo, no matter what other rifle(s) I happen to also have with me. It's set in a Boyds walnut stock and Limbsaver pad, all camo painted. I can keep 5 rounds in a 2" circle at 100 yards even with my lousy old eyes. When I had it scoped for load development, it kept a mag full of 286 Hornady bullets touching at 100M with the H4350 load I now use at ~2425fs. What more could you ask for???

When I did my conversion I did it quick and dirty using an already threaded, chambered and crowned screw in and go shooting Lothar Walther barrel...I wouldn't even needed a finger nail if I didn't want to do the bridge grinding and other "stuff".

If you really want to get into this reloading stuff you need some software like "Load from a Disk" or "Quick load"...or go online to some of the links to the Powley computers...any one of the three will give you all the powders in the correct burning ranges and starting loads for "local" powders...plus load up on reloading manuals...every one I have(all available ones) have quite a bit of loading data for the x62.

As far as caclulationg goes all I did was compare the case capacities of the two cases, divide the larger into the smaller and multiply by 100 to get the percent difference...not complicated at all...du pont powders are linear as far as pressure increase goes...this has been understood for more years than I want to admit to...so it's not rocket science and you can deduce that information from just about any reloading manual for any cartridge...or Goto Accurate Reloading's reloading pages...the linear steps can be seen in all the different loads for all the cartridges. Go to a Powley computer and you can work out the step by step process at your leisure.

All this information may be way beyond your needs, but someone might find it usefull.

FWIW...from Load from a Disk...9.3x57/24" bbl/286 Hornady/52gr Varget/2266 at 51,430CUP...9.3x62/24" bbl/286 Hornady/56.8 gr Varget/2417 at 50,998CUP.

My 9.3x62 with the same bullet likes 4350 which gives the highest velocity and the lowest pressure(according to the manuals). Varget is a very close second and is more accurate and not far from 4350 as far as pressure and velocity go...but not enough to sweat in all the departments.

Luck on your quest.

As much as I love my 9.3X62, If I had a nice old 9.3X57 potato tosser I would shoot it as is and use the money I would spend on rechambering for a 9.3X62 project.

The 9.3x57 is a balistic clone of the .358 Win. for all practical purposes and there is nothing wrong with that, It's a fine caliber..

I, personally prefer the added velocity of the 9.3x62 and a conversion runs about $50.00 around here..some do it by hand in a vise..

In my 26 inch tube, long throated Brno mod 21 Mauser with RL-15 I can get 2553 FPS with a 286 gr. Nosler, almost 2700 FPS with a 250 Barnes or a GS Customs monolithic, and 2400 FPS is a snap with the 320 gr. Woodleigh..Also the 300 gr. Swift might be a real good balanced killer at 2450 FPS..These are my established loads that I have been using for years..They are max but have never given me any problems in any kind of inclement weather.. I use RL-15 and H414 and brass lasts reasonably well at 9 or 10 loadings and 2 trims.

If I want a 9.3x57 I put less powder in the 9.3x62 case...Same with the 338 Win over the 338-06..I put less powder to duplicate the 338-06..It won't work the other way around..

Just an opinnion and an option for consideration, not saying its for everyone out there, just another point of view....

Starting big and downloading always works...I do it all the time...fit the bullet and velocity to the game. I like to eat right up to the hole and as cheap as a nickel cigar, so no use in wasting meat or money.

Not a whole lot of difference between .358, .366 or .375... literally "splitting hairs". You can get 100 fs difference between a "loose" barrel and a "tight" barrel in the same caliber using the same load.

Anyone doing any work in this sport for any length of time has lots of stories and "yes...But's" to cover all the nitpicking. In the real world once you pull the trigger it's all over but the shouting anyway...the animal didn't read the fine print, doesn't care a spit over a few feet per second and you do your job or have a red face and start blaming everything but the shooter. Dance with who you brung and enjoy the pleasures.

I think too many get all worked up over the miniscule things and forget the big picture.

I kept the meat locker full using a 22 LR for a lot of years...today I sometime wonder what the he** I'm doing carting around some cannon when a 223 with the right bullet will do the chores for deer/pronghorn at the ranges I usually shoot them...and my 250 Sav AI will handle all but the very biggest animals here in the US of A.

And I'm really scratching my head with building a 0.510 Rigby, having no desire to shoot anything bigger than a deer anyway...go figure????

The 9.3x57 Husqvarna points like a shotgun and is deer/pig MOA at 75 yards with the open sights. Had to tap the sight slightly left but was hitting right above the front sight with 286gr bullets.

It could be chambered in anything and I would like it, just a good, natural pointing rifle.