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Posted By: coyotewallace 375 ruger - 02/18/10
Anyone loading for this or have helpful info. to offer?

looking to use 270g TSX out of the Ruger Alaskan
Posted By: oldman1942 Re: 375 ruger - 02/18/10
Buy the Barnes loading book. 270 TSX is an accurate killer.
Posted By: coyotewallace Re: 375 ruger - 02/18/10
sounds good..also looking for any personal use with this cartridge,bullet(or bullet prefrence). pictures,stories,reloading info.,etc....if anyone wants to post or comment. thx
Posted By: MikeMcGuire Re: 375 ruger - 02/18/10
http://www.realguns.com/archives/144.htm

That is Part 2 of H&H Vs Ruger and has all the load data Joe from Real Guns used. Get to Part 1 at the bottom of the article
Posted By: coyotewallace Re: 375 ruger - 02/18/10
Thx Mike..yea I read the stuff I pulled up on the net. I'm kinding looking more for insight from the members here
Posted By: bigsqueeze Re: 375 ruger - 02/19/10
Originally Posted by coyotewallace
Anyone loading for this or have helpful info. to offer?

looking to use 270g TSX out of the Ruger Alaskan
........Yep!!...Here is some load data that I have duplicated and used in my own 375 Ruger Alaskan.

Go to......."gunblast.com",,,,,,then click on,,,,"archives",,,,and then speed scroll down to the date of,,,,,2/6/07.

There you`ll find a Jeff Quinn article about the 375 Ruger African containing about 20 reloads using bullets from 235 grs on up to the 300 grainers. Deduct maybe 60-70 fps for the shorter Alaskan barrel.

There are several 270 gr TSX loadings there.

Hint!!.....I use two powders; H4350 and RL15 exclusively in my Alaskan. Veeeedy accurate!!!

A good read too!! As most of what he writes should also apply to the Alaskan too.
Posted By: bigsqueeze Re: 375 ruger - 02/19/10
Originally Posted by coyotewallace
sounds good..also looking for any personal use with this cartridge,bullet(or bullet prefrence). pictures,stories,reloading info.,etc....if anyone wants to post or comment. thx
.........Any hunting stories, pics, killing performance, or whatever you`ve seen or read about the 375 H&H, would also apply equally to the 375 Ruger.

Posted By: coyotewallace Re: 375 ruger - 02/19/10
thank you bigsqueeze,
good stuff there.
Posted By: Wildcatter264 Re: 375 ruger - 02/20/10
I've used the Alaskan version in AK several times to take 2 black and 1 brown bear at ranges from 40-330 yards. The bullet was the 300 grain TSX driven by H4350 to about 2550+. Less than MOA accuracy out to 300 yds on paper. RL-15 also works well as do the 270 grain TSX and the factory loads. Haven't tried factory loads on game, but as far as accuracy and advertised MV they work well. Have seen a small brown killed with the 300 grain factory round nose - did the job. Great cartridge and rifle. My main modification was to replace the Hogue with a Borden Rimrock, a matter of taste.

I have also used the African version in 375 Ruger (also less than MOA at same range, same loads), but that one is now re-bored to 404 Ruger. Used it in Africa on Cape buffalo and some PG. Would recommend either version depending on your intended use, but would caution that the wood stock (African) should be appropriately bedded (preferably fiberglass) by someone experienced with Rugers and the action screws torqued to specs.
Posted By: BobinNH Re: 375 ruger - 02/21/10
Originally Posted by Mike378
http://www.realguns.com/archives/144.htm

That is Part 2 of H&H Vs Ruger and has all the load data Joe from Real Guns used. Get to Part 1 at the bottom of the article


Mike that was a good read...thanks for posting.
Posted By: 7remmag Re: 375 ruger - 02/21/10
great read
Posted By: daddywpb Re: 375 ruger - 02/21/10
I have been drooling over a Ruger #1 Hawkeye in .375 Ruger for a year now. The rifle is still in the rack at opur local Gander Mountain.
Posted By: atkinsonhunting Re: 375 ruger - 02/21/10
I see no point in comparing a 375 Ruger to a 375 H&H..They are balistic twins for all practical purposes..

I would take a long hard look at a 375 Ruger if I was buying my first .375, but I am not going to rush out and sell one of my H&HS just to own a Ruger..Mostly because of the amount of ammo I have loaded for the H&H, the brass on hand, the dies, and the testing and tweeking I have done on my H&Hs...

I see no advantage in one over the other, and those that do are nitpicking and have no clue on what is required of either for their intended use..If the short action is a plus then one cannot chew gum and walk at the same time..that 1/8 inch of travel should not mean anything to a rifleman..The non belted case is only in the mind of someone who has read too many gun articles, it means zilch in real life situations, the tapered case of the H&H is a plus in that it won't stick with an over load on ejection but doesn't have much to do with feeding as some proclaim. Case shape doesn't mean much on feeding, tweeking does..

All in all its just a matter of individual choice as both are fine cartridges. I have built some nice custom Mausers in both calibers and the 416 Ruger and 416 Rem also. They all work in every respect.
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 02/21/10
I should get my 375 Ruger rebarrel back from the smith next week. I will have a 24" #5 contour 3 groove PacNor on a Winchester post 64 action.

My question is where to start with 2 bullets; 260 Accubond and 270 gr TSX. I have some RL15 and 2# of RL17 along with some IMR4350.

Has anyone used RL17 with either of these bullets in either the 375 H & H or the 375 Ruger? I am having good luck with RL17 (can get plenty more, know where there are several bottles on the shelf at a local shop) and 30-06 and it would seem to be a perfect powder for the 375's, any comments?
Posted By: BobinNH Re: 375 ruger - 02/21/10
woods I think R17 will work well in both but have not had a chance to try it.Please let us know what you find!
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 02/22/10
OK, since my Nosler #5 lists 73 gr RL15 as the max load with the 260/270 gr bullets and the article above lists 75 gr RL15 as the load tested with 260 gr bullets, I am going to start loading RL17 at 74 gr with the 260 gr bullets and start watching velocity and for pressure signs.

Safe? Not below minimum or above maximum?
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 02/25/10
Woods,

I have been figuring the same as you, trying to split between known loads with the 270 TSX with other powders, to come up with a rel 17 load for that bullet in my .375 Ruger.

To be safe, if you want to wait a few days, I have posed the question to the manufacturer of Rel 17. I will post their reply here when I get it.

Manny
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
Thanks manny but I am going to shoot Sunday and need to start somewhere. I am actually more concerned with starting too low than too high.

I will have the chronograph set up and keep it simple with 3 shots at each level. I will also be breaking the rifle in so velocity is the main concern. If there are any signs of pressure or if velocity is close to 2800 fps then I will stop and pull the bullets. I have a collet puller and that is easy to do and I can reuse the bullets, powder and cases.

Bet the manufacturer will hem and haw or evade the question and not give you any definitive answer.

Anyway

3 @ 74
3 @ 74.5
3 @ 75
3 @ 75.5
3 @ 76



Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
Woods,

Let us know how it goes. Mine has a 20" so I will be a bit slower ...

Manny
Posted By: Gohip2000 Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
Hopefully you have better luck with the 375 ruger than I did. I couldn't get h&h velocity out of my 23" 375 ruger barrel without the bolt sticking(that was with any bullet). Other's seem to be getting good velocity though in the 375 ruger.
The 270 TSX has been the most accurate bullet I've shot out of any 375. My top accuracy came with RL15 powder near max and seated to the bottom edge of the first crimp groove. That combination in the 375 h&h and ruger(20" & 23" barrel) both gave me 1/2" groups at 100 yards when my trigger pull was right on. I haven't used the bullet on anything but deer, but is did expand in deer and left about a 50 cent piece exit on the deer without hitting any bone.
Posted By: Texas Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
woods, what is the purpose of a three-groove barrel vs. an arrangement with more grooves?

Texas
Posted By: Gohip2000 Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
I may be wrong, but I think a 3 groove barrel creates less friction allowing higher velocities?
Posted By: RyanScott Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
Normally the lands are wider on 3-groove bores so the difference isn't as much as one might think.
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
When I was deciding on which barrel to order from Pac-Nor, I did a search (that was about a year ago) and the general opinion was that the 3 grooves were supposed to be a little faster like gohip said. Also supposed to last a little longer. I couldn't find any negatives at that time so thought I would try one out.

Hearing a lot of good about 5R barrels now but those weren't being talked about back then.

Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
Gohip,

What was your cartridge overall length with the 270 TSX?

Thanks,

Manny
Posted By: Hillbilly375 Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
I really like my Ruger Alaskan. I replaced the rubber eraser stock with a stock Ruger plastic stock, and it feels much better, and weighs in at just 7-3/4 lbs. I have had more then a few .375 H&H rifles, and have always held them in the highest regard. Since the purchase of my Ruger, I no longer own an H&H. Not that the cartridge is so much better, but simply because the shorter barrel of my Ruger still puts out the ballistics of the longer H&H, and it's much handier in the thick brush that I hunt.
I do like the shorter action better as well; and I CAN chew gum and walk at the same time!
Be careful of those that say 'like what I like, or your an idiot'.
Posted By: atkinsonhunting Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
Hillbilly375,
I have no problem with you or anyone liking a short action. My point was that I feel they are quoting some gun article when they USE "short stroking" the long action or intermediate action as an action flaw! That IS operator incompetence, has nothing to do with the pros and cons of an action. It would, in fact, dismiss the 404, 505, 416 Rem. 458 Lott, and a host of others as useable calibers, if it were a fact.

I like the short, long and intermediate actions, I use them all and I have not problem with any of them. I would suspect most riflemen do as I do.. I am very fond of the 375 Ruger, and 416 Ruger as I stated in the above posts, have built a few of them on custom rifles..

Perhaps I worded it poorly and if so I apoligize and I am sure you can chew gum! smile smile
Posted By: bigsqueeze Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
Originally Posted by Hillbilly375
I really like my Ruger Alaskan. I replaced the rubber eraser stock with a stock Ruger plastic stock, and it feels much better, and weighs in at just 7-3/4 lbs. I have had more then a few .375 H&H rifles, and have always held them in the highest regard. Since the purchase of my Ruger, I no longer own an H&H. Not that the cartridge is so much better, but simply because the shorter barrel of my Ruger still puts out the ballistics of the longer H&H, and it's much handier in the thick brush that I hunt.
I do like the shorter action better as well; and I CAN chew gum and walk at the same time!
Be careful of those that say 'like what I like, or your an idiot'.
..........Hillbilly.....I really like my 375 Ruger Alaskan too. So far though, I have yet to replace the Hogue stock after almost 2 years of ownership. Most do not like the Hogue`s oversized palm swells, the oversized pistol grip, the eraser type of feel and some think it`s just ugly (not a safe queen for sure). But for larger hands like mine, this stock works just fine in the field. It`s very grippy in wet weather, extremely durable (designed for punishment) and handles well. Any rifle beauty pageant contests in camps these days??? Nope!

If for any reason later down the road it gives me a reason to replace it, then I will.
Posted By: idahoguy101 Re: 375 ruger - 02/26/10
Hillbilly375,

Ray Atkinson has earned his stripes and is both a curmudgeon (sic?) and a gun knowledge reference. We all need to be reminded to lighten up here. Everyone gets to keep their own opinions and to share them.
Posted By: Hillbilly375 Re: 375 ruger - 02/27/10
Fair enough Mr Atkinson. Was not aware you were peeved with some gunwriters comments on short actions. I myself like all types and lengths of actions, barrels, etc. as they all have their place. I tend to lean quite heavily on the side of the larger bores, as I like the .375s even for 80 lb Deer.
Of the hundred or so hunting rifles I've gone thru in my life, the .375 Ruger has fasinated me the most. . . so far.
The one thing that's still got me boggled, is the vast difference in claimed velocities with this cartridge. Have not put it over a chrono yet, but that is about to change, so will report my findings.
As yourself, I have a fair amount of experience in the field with several hundred head of big game under my belt, taken with quite a few calibers. I have read enough about yourself to know you have plenty of experience to create an opinion when it comes to rifles and calibers as well.
Mr. Atkinson. . . . . it's a pleasure!

Posted By: Hillbilly375 Re: 375 ruger - 02/27/10
Originally Posted by bigsqueeze
Originally Posted by Hillbilly375
I really like my Ruger Alaskan. I replaced the rubber eraser stock with a stock Ruger plastic stock, and it feels much better, and weighs in at just 7-3/4 lbs. I have had more then a few .375 H&H rifles, and have always held them in the highest regard. Since the purchase of my Ruger, I no longer own an H&H. Not that the cartridge is so much better, but simply because the shorter barrel of my Ruger still puts out the ballistics of the longer H&H, and it's much handier in the thick brush that I hunt.
I do like the shorter action better as well; and I CAN chew gum and walk at the same time!
Be careful of those that say 'like what I like, or your an idiot'.
..........Hillbilly.....I really like my 375 Ruger Alaskan too. So far though, I have yet to replace the Hogue stock after almost 2 years of ownership. Most do not like the Hogue`s oversized palm swells, the oversized pistol grip, the eraser type of feel and some think it`s just ugly (not a safe queen for sure). But for larger hands like mine, this stock works just fine in the field. It`s very grippy in wet weather, extremely durable (designed for punishment) and handles well. Any rifle beauty pageant contests in camps these days??? Nope!

If for any reason later down the road it gives me a reason to replace it, then I will.



No reason to replace it if it fit's you. I liked the Hogue as well for it's soft recoil. I on the other hand have short fingers, so the forend is a little big for me. A stock needs to fit the shooter, or best work will not be done. ALL my shooting buddies raze me for having to chop all my rifle stocks off about an inch for proper fit to my short, stocky build. As far as beauty pageants are concerned, I've found pure function to trump beauty every time. If it fit's, and is functional for the shooter; that IS a beautiful thing. Glad you like your Ruger, and would love to hear about your experiences with it.
Best!
Posted By: idahoguy101 Re: 375 ruger - 02/28/10
Hillbilly375,

Very classy reply
Posted By: Gohip2000 Re: 375 ruger - 02/28/10
Originally Posted by mannyspd1
Gohip,

What was your cartridge overall length with the 270 TSX?

Thanks,

Manny

3.340" COL for the 375 ruger
I think 3.590 3.600" COL in the H&H
It can be accurate seated so you can crimp in the groove too, but I've always had the best accuracy seating right to the bottom edge of the crimp groove or just barely less so a sliver of the band of the bullet is showing

I also found that the TSX would would seat deeper in the case while in the magazine from recoil. It needs to be crimped at least a little in the 375 ruger
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 03/01/10
Update on RL17

BULLET WEIGHT POWDER CHARGE OAL VELOCITY

TSX 270 RL17 74.0 3.285 2552
TSX 270 RL17 74.5 3.285 2564
TSX 270 RL17 75.0 3.285 2578
TSX 270 RL17 75.5 3.285 2564
TSX 270 RL17 76.0 3.285 2572

The load at 75 gr would not have been out of line except for one shot that chrony'd 2605 fps.

Conclusion: got a ways to go with RL17 to get anywhere close to where max would be. Gonna keep going up.

Observation: this 3 groove Pac-Nor was the easiest break-in for me yet and I have Hart, Brux and Douglas barrels. Soak the first patch in Barnes CR-10 and it had carbon only on it, bronze brush 3 times, next patch a little dirty but the 3rd patch was clean. Stopped the clean after every shot on the 3rd shot, stopped the clean every 3 shots after the next 3 and finished the session with no further cleaning.

Observation: 375's are a handful! However it was a cumulative long lasting push and was greatly reduced by my Knoxx stock. About like my 338 win mag was before I rebarreled it to a 338RUM.

It did put out a couple of good groups and shows a lot of promise
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: coyotewallace Re: 375 ruger - 03/01/10
geezz. 1 full grain 74.5-75.5 the vel is still the same? and 2 full grains only avg. 20 fps more?wow
thats interesting
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 03/01/10
Yeah, kinda makes me think that I am not anywhere near max
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 03/01/10
Woods,

Thanks for posting your results so far. I'm looking forward to seeing where you end up-I'm guessing around 79 grains or so.

I noticed your col...how far off the lands are you?

Thanks,

Manny
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 03/01/10
With the 270 TSX I am .050" off the lands. If I load the 260 Accubond so I can fit in the magazine I will be close to .200"
Posted By: bigsqueeze Re: 375 ruger - 03/01/10
Very good grouping with the RL17. Although it remains to be seen if the RL17 will work as good in the 375 Ruger as it does in the shorty mags for which is was really designed.

Woods! You`re my guinea pig trying RL 17. If it looks promising for you, I`ll try some in mine too.
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 03/01/10
BigSqueeze,

I feel the same way about Woods' results-and future results. I have had very good luck with Rel 17 in cartridges from my .270 Win. (four different rifles)to a 300WSM. I stocked up on the stuff when I could get multi-pounds with the same lot number.

I was leaning towards Rel. 15 for the .375 Ruger, but would rather not have to add another powder to my stockpile, if you know what I mean.

Still waiting on my rifle-I just bought it. It is a Ruger .375 Hawkeye Left handed stainless with laminated stock, 20" barrel. It should be here in a week or so, then I have the 10 day wait...so I'd like to have some loads ready to test when the rifle gets out of the gun shop. I'll be putting a Leu. 1.5 X 5 VXIII with heavy duplex on it.

So Woods, keep up the development-I am watching with interest!

Take care,

Manny
Posted By: bigsqueeze Re: 375 ruger - 03/01/10
Mannyspd1...............The 2 powders I exclusively use for my 375 Ruger are the RL15 and H-4350. Both are superb in my 375 Ruger Alaskan.

I doubt that the RL17 would make any significant velocity increases in the 375R, but we`ll see. But RL17 used in the short mags is a different story.
Posted By: atkinsonhunting Re: 375 ruger - 03/01/10
Hillbilly,
The case capacity of the Ruger comes from being designed FAT, and square of shoulder, and the 375 H&H Long and tapered. The end result is they are very close to each other in case capacity for all practical purposes...but even a 100 FPS will not have any practical effect on their intended purpose..

I think you have made and excellent choice and I also believe the Rugers are the coming classic of big game calibers, they are well designed, they have more than enough punch to handle all that walks, talks, or crawls on this planet..Good hunting to you! smile I, on the other hand, have about 2000 rounds of loaded a 375 H&H, bullets and brass in abundance, dies, and a wonderfull old English rifle with load work and everything already done..It would not behove me to change now, but you never know, I have a tendency to get bored with rifles and peddle them for no other reason than to start all over! smile
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 03/02/10
OK, next loads will be at

77 gr
78 gr
79 gr

I will be able to see if there is a sudden jump, stop and pull the rest, I think it will end up around 81 gr for 2800 fps+
Posted By: coyotewallace Re: 375 ruger - 03/02/10
sounds good..looking foward to the results. will you be able to post targets again? that would be great
Posted By: Hillbilly375 Re: 375 ruger - 03/02/10
Originally Posted by atkinson
Hillbilly,
The case capacity of the Ruger comes from being designed FAT, and square of shoulder, and the 375 H&H Long and tapered. The end result is they are very close to each other in case capacity for all practical purposes...but even a 100 FPS will not have any practical effect on their intended purpose..

I think you have made and excellent choice and I also believe the Rugers are the coming classic of big game calibers, they are well designed, they have more than enough punch to handle all that walks, talks, or crawls on this planet..Good hunting to you! smile I, on the other hand, have about 2000 rounds of loaded a 375 H&H, bullets and brass in abundance, dies, and a wonderfull old English rifle with load work and everything already done..It would not behove me to change now, but you never know, I have a tendency to get bored with rifles and peddle them for no other reason than to start all over! smile


Ray, you are a true gentleman.
I am envious of a true Enlglish rifle in the H&H for sure. Probably not in the cards for myself at this point however as they go for a little more then available to me right now. (Retired).
Would love to see it if you can post pics. Love the things.
But I do like my Ruger for the function it provides my type of hunting. If I fall down a mountain side and scare it all to hell, that's fine. I will cherish the war wounds. But if it were a fine ol rifle as you have, I may just cry! Thanks for the kind words Ray.
Best regards, Hillbilly
Posted By: daddywpb Re: 375 ruger - 03/02/10
Great post. I just got my 375 Ruger and will be looking forward to seeing how this turns out. Most of what I've read so far recommends RL15. Woods - thanks for sharing!
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 03/14/10
Woods,

Are you out shooting those RL-17 loads today? Inquiring minds want to know!

I have 18 cartridges ready for mine with RL-15 and the 270 grn. Barnes TSX, 6 loads each of 72, 73, and 74 grains, COL is 3.3" with the bullet seated just at the bottom edge of the first groove. This allows the case to be crimped over the bearing surface just into the groove for a better crimp.

I'm going to the range on Friday...if you don't have the data I may just load up some RL-17 and give it a go as well.

By the way, Alliant did get back to me...they said they have no data on RL-17 and the .375 Ruger, but that it should work well.

Manny
Posted By: big time Re: 375 ruger - 03/14/10
i just started 375 ruger development today using 300 grain hornady btsp's and rl-17. i tested to 81 grains w/ the bullets seated to maximum mag length: www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19464&PN=1

that's the data i have so far... more coming as i get more. so far, i am really liking rl-17 in this application.
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 03/15/10
Update

270 gr TSX seated .050" off the lands

77 gr RL17 - 2573 fps
78 gr RL17 - 2621 fps
79 gr RL17 - 2643 fps

Accuracy was good

[Linked Image]

Still no pressure signs, primers not flattened. Gonna keep going up 80 gr, 81 gr and 82 gr next.

Will advise.

BTW, RL17 is a super duper powder in 30-06

[Linked Image]
Posted By: coyotewallace Re: 375 ruger - 03/15/10
sounds good. Just got all my reloading supplies together. I'm going to start loading probley the end of next week. I got 270 TSX's and H4350.
Posted By: atkinsonhunting Re: 375 ruger - 03/15/10
Hillbilly,
I can;t post pictures, I am lucky to post anything, my computer skills were wasted hunting buffalo in the bush..I would be glad to send you a picture of the English rifle to your email. I can do that.

For those that can't seem to get 375 H&H velocity out of their Rugers that may be a barrel thing, some barrels are fast and some are slow..but I bet you can get 2500 FPS out of any 375 Ruger and thats where I load my 375 H&H and its performed to perfection on all things mean and hungry. I have never understood the need to squeeze out every ounce of velocity from any cartridge as 100 or even 200 FPS isn't going to change a thinf in the field..I think it must be and American syndrome of bigger is better! not always! smile

Posted By: Texas Re: 375 ruger - 03/16/10
Hey Woods, I have been giving the 375 Ruger conversion of a standard-length .532 bolt face action (like 7 mag or 338 winmag) much thought. How do you find your Model 70 conversion to feed? Is it a classic (CRF) action or a pushfeed? Did your smith do (or need to do) any feed work?

I am following all the load development with high interest! Please continue the reports!

Texas
Posted By: himmelrr Re: 375 ruger - 03/16/10
Texas,

I did the same conversion from a Win70 Classic Sporter (CRF) in 300Win Mag to 375 Ruger. The conversion was done by a gunsmith who posts on here as Redneck. The only feeding issue was the cartridge on the left side of the magazine would occasionally pop out on its own. The fix was to open up the top of the mag box where it angles in. That allowed the more bite from the feed rails. It fed perfect after that little tweak. There might've been more too it and if you want more info, just send a PM to Redneck.

The build ended up being 9 pounds, 2 ounces with Leupy DD mounts/ring, VXIII 1.75-6E and 3 rounds. Recoil was very tolerable for me especially with a 1" Pach Decelerator on the stock. If I was building another one, that would be my target weight. I only used Hornady's 270 SPRP and RL15. I got good MOA groups no matter the charge weight just an steady increase in MV.

A couple of things to know about my build and the 375 Ruger in general. Without modifying the mag spring, only 2 cartridges fit into the magazine. Supposedly you can remove the "hump" from the spring which allows a 3rd cart. Another observation on Ruger brass is that it seemed to be very soft. If the case mouth was not chamfered pretty heavily, the flat base of the bullet would slightly collapse the shoulder. It was not big deal but I've never run into that before when loading for a 375H&H.

YMMV but this is my views on the 375Rug and a M70.

RH
Posted By: Texas Re: 375 ruger - 03/17/10
Thanks for that info, RH. The donor in my thoughts is a Vanguard 338 winmag. I have a H&H, but the Ruger case intrigues me.

Texas
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 03/17/10
I bought a push feed 70 in 264 win mag for $300.00 with the express purpose of rebarreling. I've had a 264 and definitely did not want this one with a sporter contour 24" barrel and head clearance of over .040". I used a gunsmith I have used before in Salt Lake City area and now my headspace on the 375 Ruger is .002". grin

Mine has a 24" Pac-Nor #5 contour 3 groove that is finished at 24". I am very impressed with the clean up on the Pac-Nor as compared with my other barrels from Hart, Brux and Douglas. I started breaking it in but with just some carbon on the first patch and the 3rd patch clean and white, I just started shooting it.

Like Texas I am finding the brass a little soft. Mine has no feeding problems. I have a Knoxx stock and it is heavy at almost 12 pounds. Easy to shoot though.
Posted By: atkinsonhunting Re: 375 ruger - 03/18/10
One reason I think that I prefer the 375 H&H over the 375 Ruger is with the use of the 350 gr. Woodleigh bullets that I dearly love in the 375 H&H...I found they took up too much powder space in the .375 Ruger I built. So that may or many not be an issue with someone..Same applied with the 416 Ruger wildcat I built early on with the Ruger case necked up to .416..I like the 450 gr. Woodleighs a lot, soooooo...

short of that, there ain't hardly any difference in the two for my useage, action length is a non issue with me...

I think the 375 Ruger case is an outstanding development.
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 03/23/10
Here is my .375 Ruger...I put on a 2.5 X 8 Leupold instead of the 1.5 X 5.

Warne QD rings on order...yep, I'm left handed.


[Linked Image]



Manny
Posted By: 458Win Re: 375 ruger - 03/23/10
Originally Posted by atkinson
One reason I think that I prefer the 375 H&H over the 375 Ruger is with the use of the 350 gr. Woodleigh bullets that I dearly love in the 375 H&H...I found they took up too much powder space in the .375 Ruger I built. So that may or many not be an issue with someone..Same applied with the 416 Ruger wildcat I built early on with the Ruger case necked up to .416..I like the 450 gr. Woodleighs a lot, soooooo...

short of that, there ain't hardly any difference in the two for my useage, action length is a non issue with me...

I think the 375 Ruger case is an outstanding development.


Ray, Since the 375 Ruger is a larger case than the H&H I found that it worked fine for the 350 Woodleighs. Although I wasn't all that enamored with the Woodleighs as I have found them too soft for my tastes. but I am anxious to try the new ones with thicker jackets.
Posted By: leverite2 Re: 375 ruger - 03/24/10
Great stock...where'd you get it?

Just got my Alaskan and I like the Hogue pretty well as a first impression. SUre ain't pretty like yours, though.
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 03/24/10
Leverite2,

The stock is a Ruger factory laminate stock.

Manny
Posted By: luv2safari Re: 375 ruger - 03/24/10
I think these were a limited run...

Maybe just dreamed it, however. This is the stock they should have used on the Alaskan all along, IMO!!
Posted By: Mark R Dobrenski Re: 375 ruger - 03/24/10
Originally Posted by mannyspd1
Here is my .375 Ruger...I put on a 2.5 X 8 Leupold instead of the 1.5 X 5.

Warne QD rings on order...yep, I'm left handed.


[Linked Image]



Manny



Nice looking rig!

Dober
Posted By: AlaskaCub Re: 375 ruger - 03/24/10
I see a lot of talk about RL-17, and my experience loading for the 375 Ruger was using RL-15. With 74 grains of RL-15 I was getting right at 2750, and a scary small groups.I also used a similar amount of powder for 260 grain Accubonds and Partitions, it shot all 3 veery well. But for some reason to me the 270 TSX seemed about like the perfect combination for that rifle. Only thing I ever killed with the 375 Ruger was a black bear and not a real big one.I used the factory 270 SP. The 375 Ruger sent that poor blackie to bear heaven with the quickness. Devastating killing ability!
Posted By: BobinNH Re: 375 ruger - 03/24/10
Originally Posted by Mark R Dobrenski
Originally Posted by mannyspd1
Here is my .375 Ruger...I put on a 2.5 X 8 Leupold instead of the 1.5 X 5.

Warne QD rings on order...yep, I'm left handed.


[Linked Image]



Manny



Nice looking rig!

Dober



I love that stock! Very slick rig and I am jealous they don't offer that for righties......
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 03/24/10
I have been told that there were 93 of these rifles made and shipped from the factory with this stock. The variation never appeared in a Ruger catalog.

One version of why the odd number of rifles and not appearing in a catalog is that a mistake was made when inletting the stock at the factory, and the wrong barrel channel was carved out. Rather than trash the 93 stocks, Ruger built the rifle as you see above.

Whatever the reason, I like the outcome! I really like how this rifle balances and how the stock feels...the only issue I have is the very thin recoil pad, and the stock is a bit short for me. I added a Limbsaver medium slip-on recoil pad right over the top of the existing factory pad and the LOP is perfect for me.

Manny
Posted By: WiFowler Re: 375 ruger - 03/24/10
Quote
I did the same conversion from a Win70 Classic Sporter (CRF) in 300Win Mag to 375 Ruger.


I shoulda bought that gun when it was available in the classifieds !! Now I've been waiting 4 months for a 375 Ruger to built on a M700, and I had the barrel and reamer.
Posted By: ruger375 Re: 375 ruger - 03/24/10
Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by Mark R Dobrenski
Originally Posted by mannyspd1
Here is my .375 Ruger...I put on a 2.5 X 8 Leupold instead of the 1.5 X 5.

Warne QD rings on order...yep, I'm left handed.


[Linked Image]



Manny



Nice looking rig!

Dober



I love that stock! Very slick rig and I am jealous they don't offer that for righties......


BobinNH,

this is the first time i heard a righty want a lefty like rifle but honestly this is really a very good rifle. i like it really and proud to be lefty lol ...at least on the shooting side. lol
Posted By: smokepole Re: 375 ruger - 03/24/10
This one was a limited run also:

[Linked Image]
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 03/26/10


I took my new .375 Ruger to the range today. I had loaded up some RL-15, waiting for more data on rl-17 before trying that powder.

[Linked Image]

First I used Hornady factory 270 grain to get myself on the paper.

Then I started with my handloads. I was shooting 3 shot groups at 100 yards. This group was 72 grns. of rl-15, with a Barnes 235 grain TSX, WLMR primers, 3-shots at 100 yards. I was looking for a heavy 35 Whelan or light .338 mag. load range. This group measures .975". Three 3-shot groups averaged 1.15". No chrono data yet as I was looking for accuracy, the rest can come later. I think either load will do what I want of it.

[Linked Image]

Next load was 72 grains of rl-15 again, this time with the Barnes 270 grain TSX, WLMR primers. This measures group .535", three 3-shot groups averaged .68". None were over an inch.

[Linked Image]

I think my load development is done. Now I have to pull the bullets from the other powder combinations I had loaded.

The recoil was not bad, and much nicer to shoot off the sticks rather than from the bench. Counting the factory rounds to get on paper, I put 30 rounds through the rifle...and that was enough for today.

I will chrono. the loads and sight in on my next trip to the range.

Manny



Posted By: smokepole Re: 375 ruger - 03/26/10
Good shootin' Manny. Think I'll try some R-15 with some TSXs. Probably stop a tank with that.
Posted By: Mark R Dobrenski Re: 375 ruger - 03/27/10
I sure do like it as well Bob and it's perhaps one of the few lam's I'd ever buy.

You must have some clout with Ruger talk them into running some for us...grin

Dober
Posted By: big time Re: 375 ruger - 03/27/10
i did some rl-17 and 300 grain hornady development today. found a pretty good load at 82.5 grains and 2688 f/s. i think 82.5 grains behind the 300 grain bullet is as high as i'm going to go. the rest of my development: www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19464&PN=1

i am really, really liking rl-17 in this chambering.
Posted By: atkinsonhunting Re: 375 ruger - 03/27/10
Phil,
The PP Woodleighs in 350 gr. are much tougher than the RN, the RN was specifically designed for herd shooting buffalo and at my request btw so that it would expend a big wide bullet that stopped on the off side skin every time and it does that with regularity..

The PP was Geoffs idea of a 350 gr. 375 bullet and in truth, I have to bow to his experience, it is a better bullet, but it sure isn't as pretty sticking out of the 375 case and remenisent of yesteryear! smile smile

I love the 350 gr. RN on elk, deer and most of the African plainsgame, and yes its awesome on herd shooting buffalo, but I use the PP for hunting the dagga boys. Its worlds better on that second and third follow up shot on buffalo as they depart to places unknown..
Posted By: coyotewallace Re: 375 ruger - 03/28/10
Here is a thread thats over at accuratereloading some folks have talked about the 375

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/9451023911
Posted By: BobinNH Re: 375 ruger - 03/28/10
Originally Posted by Mark R Dobrenski
I sure do like it as well Bob and it's perhaps one of the few lam's I'd ever buy.

You must have some clout with Ruger talk them into running some for us...grin

Dober


Geez Dober I dunno anyone over at Ruger......but when I saw that little gun I tried swinging over to the port side which did not work real well as only half my brain works most of the time..... smile

That rifle just has lots of rugged good looks and practical appeal.....I suppose a guy could get an Alaskan and find out who makes that stock.....no?
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 03/29/10
Next range report with 375 Ruger and RL17. It was windy, 15 to 20 coming from 10 o'clock. This time I loaded up with some 260 gr Accubonds and the 270 gr TSX:

AB 260 RL17 80.0 3.350 2760
AB 260 RL17 81.0 3.350 2798
AB 260 RL17 82.0 3.350 2849

TSX 270 RL17 80.0 3.285 2692
TSX 270 RL17 81.0 3.285 2714
TSX 270 RL17 82.0 3.285 2753

There were a couple of promising groups, both from the TSX and the Accubonds
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Guess I'll keep going up with 83,84 and 85 grains.
Posted By: colorado Re: 375 ruger - 03/29/10
Very nice groups at 200 yards!

Chuck
Posted By: LeRoy Re: 375 ruger - 03/29/10
Geez!
I hope my #1 can do that @ 100! Or should I say--"I hope I Can do that @ 100" wink Now, If I can just get some 17.

Nice shooting. Keep 'er comin', Dude!

Later...
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 03/30/10
Woods,

Nice shooting...and the fps is getting up there. At 3.285 COL on the TSX, you must be on the first groove towards the leading edge? Are you crimping?

Manny
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 03/30/10
Originally Posted by mannyspd1
Woods,

Nice shooting...and the fps is getting up there. At 3.285 COL on the TSX, you must be on the first groove towards the leading edge? Are you crimping?

Manny


Nope, no crimping, ~.003" bullet grip. And yes it is right in the middle of the last cannelure. Could crimp, but my experience with crimping is that it leads to a shorter and shorter case when you have to chamfer off the crimp. Maybe that is just with the Lee Factory Crimp though.
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 03/30/10
Woods,

No movement of the bullet after recoil? Are you single loading in the magazine or loading the magazine up, and then checking the last round for COL?

I guess what I'm getting at is, are you getting any bullet creep with the amount of recoil those loads are generating? I have put a decent crimp into the groove as I was concerned about the last round in the mag moving out and changing col,...but if you are not having that problem...

Thanks,

Manny
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 04/02/10
Another trip to the range today, this time with the chronograph. These are an average of 5 shots out of my rifle with 20" barrel.

Hornady factory 270 grain loads ave. 2867 fps
235 TSX 72 grains of RL-15 WLMR primers, ave. 2819 fps
270 TSX 72 grains of RL-15 WLMR primers ave. 2725 fps

Does this seem a bit fast for the load to you guys? The avergages read about 50 fps more than what I was expecting. Maybe because of my crimp, while others are not crimping? I also chronographed some .22 lr loads out of my Marlin 39a (made in 1959) which were consistent with prior readings from that lot of ammo and that rifle...so I don't know. The chronograph seemed to be working fine. (I took the Marlin to shoot between groups allowing my Ruger to cool down.)

I guess a few fps either way is not going to make a difference for what I plan on doing with this rifle. I'm going to use the 235 TSX for a black bear hunt the last week of April. The 270 load will be used down the road for my 2nd trip to Africa, this time for a Cape Buffalo. I wanted to reach a load level about like a .338 magnum from the 235 grain, and a 375 H&H load out of the 270 grain, and it looks like I got there. The 235 TSX load is a moderate load, the 270 TSX load is a 1.5 grains short of max, according to Barnes older data.

The rifle is still shooting well. Most 235 grn. groups are still around an inch, but here is a 235 TSX group from today:

[Linked Image]


The 270 TSX load is still under an inch, like this one from today:

[Linked Image]

Both of these groups were with the same sight setting at 100 yards.

After chronographing and shooting a few groups off the bench, I started shooting off the sticks. Yeah, the groups opened up a bit, but at least I know that it is me and not the rifle or load. Both loads were still under 1.5" at 100 yds. off the sticks. I never thought I would say this, but the recoil level was almost "pleasant" off the sticks. Way better than the bench!

The next trip to the range, it will be all off the sticks, from 200 to 300 yards.

Manny
Posted By: daddywpb Re: 375 ruger - 04/04/10
Finally got to shoot my new .375 Ruger #1 yesterday. I'm using RL-15 and 300 grain Hornady RN Interbonds loaded to 2600 fps. My rifle seems to prefer heavier bullets. The 270's didn't group as well. Recoil is substantial, but controllable. It will be my new hog gun for bustin' thru palmetto heads this fall.
Posted By: LeRoy Re: 375 ruger - 04/04/10
"Recoil is substantial, but controllable."

I got to shoot my Talo Limited Edition #1 for the first time yesterday, as well.
Only mine were Hornady factory 300 gr loads. They are a handful, to be honest.
Going to load up some 250s w/RL-15, and see how they do. Put a Falcon Meanace 1.5-5x on her last night. Will shoot some groups and take pics.

Later...

Posted By: big time Re: 375 ruger - 04/05/10
Originally Posted by mannyspd1
Another trip to the range today, this time with the chronograph. These are an average of 5 shots out of my rifle with 20" barrel.

Hornady factory 270 grain loads ave. 2867 fps
235 TSX 72 grains of RL-15 WLMR primers, ave. 2819 fps
270 TSX 72 grains of RL-15 WLMR primers ave. 2725 fps

Does this seem a bit fast for the load to you guys?


manny - no, it doesn't seem like too hot of a load to me. i run my 300's at 2688 f/s with no pressure problems, and good primer pocket life.
Posted By: ruger375 Re: 375 ruger - 04/05/10
Originally Posted by big time
Originally Posted by mannyspd1
Another trip to the range today, this time with the chronograph. These are an average of 5 shots out of my rifle with 20" barrel.

Hornady factory 270 grain loads ave. 2867 fps
235 TSX 72 grains of RL-15 WLMR primers, ave. 2819 fps
270 TSX 72 grains of RL-15 WLMR primers ave. 2725 fps

Does this seem a bit fast for the load to you guys?


manny - no, it doesn't seem like too hot of a load to me. i run my 300's at 2688 f/s with no pressure problems, and good primer pocket life.


here s the datas i have from Ruger. revised 02/2010 so you re in the perfect area.

Barrel 24" primer fed GM215M

RL15 69.0 grains 2732 fps mini 76.0 grains 2988 fps load density 93% maxi 235 grains TSX FB
RL15 66.5 grains 2556 fps mini 73.5 grains 2772 fps load density 94% maxi 270 grains TSX FB
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 04/05/10
Big time and ruger375,

That news is good to hear. The cases are not stretching, primer pockets are tight, no pressure ring, it all looks good.

Time to go hunting!

Manny
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 04/09/10


Another trip to the range today. These groups were at 200 yards, off the sticks, using the 235 TSX load described in previous posts.


[Linked Image]


A quick sight adjustment, and I was right where I want to be at 200 yards:


[Linked Image]


My next target will be Idaho black bear the last week of April.


Manny
Posted By: wyoguide Re: 375 ruger - 04/09/10
When I was working up a load for my 23" bbld african, I settled on 75 gr of RL 15, Fed 215 mag primer, and 235 tsx's. A weird thing happened when I got to 76 gr, the max load in the barnes book. I loaded 3 each from 70 gr to 76 and chrono'd them. As expected, each increase brought slightly more velocity, each grain gaining approx 30-50 fps, w/ accuracy improving as I went up. 75 grains seemed to be the sweet spot, avg 2932 fps w/ good accuracy and no visible pressure signs. Here's where it got weird, at 76 gr, I lost 130 fps over the 75, accuracy opened up to 3", and the bullets in the magazine were starting to push into the case from recoil. still no visible pressure signs, but I didn't want to crimp, so I quit at 75 gr, and called it good. Anyone else ever LOSE velocity w/ more powder? I'm leaving in 12 days to try mine out on PG in Namibia!
Posted By: atkinsonhunting Re: 375 ruger - 04/09/10
Manyspd1,
that is some pretty impressive velocities and better than I get from my 375 H&H by a little..Speaks well for the .375 Ruger and it does have more powder space than a 375 H&H so I am not surprised and your loads are not even max..

I have built a couple of 416 Rugers and one 404 Ruger and they are hot numbers and really cook...conversion of the Mauser 98 to a Ruger case is a snap. Unfortunatly they are popular wildcats for the time being and I sell them faster than I can make them. It's just a nice case.
Posted By: mannyspd1 Re: 375 ruger - 04/09/10
wyoguide,

I do crimp my loads into the bottom of the first relief groove and it seems to work well. Please report when you get back from your trip. I wonder if you will recover any bullets, maybe not but of course give us a full report on how the rifle performs.

Mr. Atkinson,

What you have previously mentioned about a few fps more won't make much of a difference rang true for me. If I did think I needed to squeak out a few more fps than I probably should have went with a .416 instead of a .375, at least that is the way I am looking at it. I did want a certain threshold of power, once I met that I wanted good accuracy. The rifle is shooting well from the bench or sticks, with enough fps to do the job using the 235 grain for lighter game and the 270 grain TSX for heavier game.

Thanks for the pm by the way and I am looking forward to looking at the material.

Manny
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 04/25/10
Update, finally got out to try the next set of loads with the 260 gr Accubond and RL17

AB 260 RL17 82.5 3.350 2859
AB 260 RL17 83.0 3.350 2872
AB 260 RL17 83.5 3.350 2896
AB 260 RL17 84.0 3.350 2916


No signs of pressure, here is a pic of the primers before and after on the 84 gr load
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

It was a bad day for shooting with gusty winds quartering from 10:00 o'clock from 10 to 20 mph. Here are pics of the 1st string and the last string
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Do you think I should keep going up to see if I can hit 3000 fps?
Posted By: bigsqueeze Re: 375 ruger - 04/25/10
Woods!...............Very well done! What is your barrel length?....Keep going to see if you can hit 3000 fps. Another 1 1/2 grs or so, up to 85.5 to 85.7 just may do it.

RL17 seems to work EXTREMELY well in the 375 Ruger. The best velocity with the Horn SP 270s and H-4350 was 2808 fps from my 20" Alaskan.

Looks like its time for me to get busy trying some RL17.
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 04/26/10
Hey bigsqueeze, 24" 3-groove PacNor #5 contour
Posted By: leverite2 Re: 375 ruger - 04/26/10
Data for the 375 Ruger is not easy to find. I asked Alliant for some info on their Reloader powders and they sent me a Nosler load of 72 to 76 grains RL 15. The max velocity was 2883 fps for the 76 gr load.

They gave no info on barrel length or pressure.

I'm curious if you can get more, but I would not do it myself. I haven't chrono'd my RL 15 loads yet, but I'd be more than happy with the velocities you're getting w/ RL 17, correspondingly reduced for my 20" barrel.

SUspect you're at or beyond the 62psi limit.

BTW...primer shape means nada, unless it's just not there anymore!

Link below is from Nosler's site...good luck!

http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15&b=375cal&s=345
Posted By: Mauser98 Re: 375 ruger - 04/26/10
My .375 Ruger is built on a JC Higgins M50(FN) action with a 21.5" McGowan barrel.

I've done some chronographing with the following results(all velocities are a three shot average):

Nosler 260 gr AB with RL15
72 gr - 2726 fps
74 gr - 2811 fps
76 gr - 2873 fps

pretty much the same velocities as the Nosler Manual. Interestingly, my best accuracy was with the 72 gr load - same as the Nosler results.

I've also done a bit of testing with the Hornady 270 gr SPIL and RL17. Alliant states that RL17 has a similar burn speed as IMR4350 so I started well below Hodgdon's minimum load for IMR4350 and worked up to just below Hodgdons maximum load.

75 gr - 2494 fps
76 gr - 2546 fps
77 gr - 2595 fps
78 gr - 2656 fps
79 gr - 2673 fps
80 gr - 2698 fps
81 gr - 2751 fps
82 gr - 2801 fps
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 05/09/10
Latest update: 375 Ruger 260 Accubond RL17


AB 260 0.473 RL17 84.5 3.350 2938
AB 260 0.473 RL17 85.0 3.350 2941
AB 260 0.473 RL17 85.5 3.350 2956
AB 260 0.473 RL17 86.0 3.350 2978

Pic of primers on the 86 gr load
[Linked Image]

no hard bolt lift, no flattened primers, no shiny spots
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 06/01/10
Last update. I hit 3000 fps with 86.5 gr RL17. Velocities for 5 shots: 3003, 2976, 2976, 3009 & 3016 fps. Here is what the primers looked like
[Linked Image]

no hard bolt lift. However, recoil is getting extreme so I'm calling that tops for now.

This load for the 270 TSX at 2900 fps seemed more tolerable
[Linked Image]

I think if I could get rid of my flinch this gun would be a shooter grin!
Posted By: leverite2 Re: 375 ruger - 01/23/11
Just chronoed some of my first RL 17 loads from my Ruger Alaskan w/ 20" barrel.

270 gr Hornady bullets:

80.0 gr Rl 17...2654 fps
81.0 ""........2700 fps
82.0 ""........2734 fps
83.0 ""........2763 fps
84.0 ""........2809 fps

All spent cartridges looked similar...flattened primers, but no other apparrent pressure signs. Bolt lift did not seem heavy.

Base measurements were 0.532" for the lower four loads and 0.533" for the top load. Recoil is tolerable, but would not care to shoot more than a dozen rounds at any one sitting.

Temp was in the mid 40's. Rl 17 is supposed to be temp stable, but I would back these loads down for warmer weather shooting.
Posted By: noordinaryjoe Re: 375 ruger - 12/13/12
This thread is a bit old, but I'd like to point out a couple of safety concerns and factoids regarding the load development that Woods did:

Woods has an extremely different rifle-build then ANYONE looking to develop/duplicate a load for a factory-built Ruger Alaskan or African. (3-groove, 24" Pac-Nor, et al...)

Hornady, who developed the cartridge AND tested it in a "20 Ruger Alaskan has a MAX published load of RL-17 for a 270 gr bullet of 81.3 gr. (8th & 9th additions)

Woods load may be safe enough in his unique rifle, but in my experience RL-17 doesn't show traditional pressure signs like most handloaders are used to seeing, yet I would bet that Hornady's ballistic lab actually MEASURED the pressures to come up with the max safe load or 81 grains in their reloading manual.

That being said, if I recall correctly, Woods had worked up to 86 grains of RL-17 without any (traditional)pressure signs behind 260-270 gr bullets - anyone want to bet that 5 GRAINS over book max is actually at a safe pressure level - even in his custom rig?

Anyone care enough to run those numbers through Quickload?

I do appreciate how thorough Woods was with his documentation, and he did back down to a less-outrageous (and very accurate) load of 84 grains,but his loads aren't even close to realistic for us Ruger shooters and probably are way over-pressure even in his rifle.

IMO RL-17 is a good powder that only LOOKS like a wonder-powder to those used to seeing the traditional pressure signs that us seat-of-the-pants handloaders are used to looking for.

My $.02,
-Joe
Posted By: Tanzan Re: 375 ruger - 01/13/14
-
Pressure signs react to the laws of physics. It is very possible for Woods' rifle to be within safe pressure and for some anomaly in the Hornady rifle to cause them to undervalue their recommended load. We've all seen comparisons in manuals where one manual presents something that is far above or below another manual. However, it is right to point out that an individual example of a fast combo does not mean that all rifles will equal that achievement safely.
Posted By: krummarine Re: 375 ruger - 03/05/14
tag for future reference.
Posted By: rogn Re: 375 ruger - 03/08/14
I have to take exception to the statement that primer appearances are of no value. Without having a pressure barrel or piezoelectric or stress tester, a loader has to use every indicator of pressure available. Relying on only one could lead to disaster. Its become very popular to dismiss primer appearances, but they are very useful if approached as a comparator to many other signs of normal pressures. Comparing gun to gun or factory load to hand load can reveal a lot. Things like sticking cases or hard extraction may well mean you're in the land of no return or KB land. Some cases like Ruger 375 or WSM cases are so stout that it takes a lot to expand or stick them. Or soft case heads expand a lot while strong cases like the two mentioned take an awful lot to expand.
Using primer appearance requires you compare low pressure loads to increasing pressure loads. Flattened primers usually mean you're getting to the upper levels of practical pressures, but deep primer pockets , or long headspace can produce them too. If lower pressure loads produce nice rounded primers and they eventually become flattened, you can safely surmise that pressures have increased. If they are completely flattened and totally fill the pocket to the edges, its time to evaluate.
Cratered primers tell you that pressure or design limits are in sight. But they can also indicate oversized firing pin holes or weak firing pin springs. All these factors are useful in establishing practical working pressures.
The decrease in recorded velocity as load limits are approached seems to be a common phenominum. This says you are in never never land and anything, any variant can cause a real pressure excursion. Your gun is trying to warn you! Just remember to use all the indicators available for a complete picture.
I could prattle on much further, but Ive probably made enough people agitated already.
Posted By: woods Re: 375 ruger - 03/08/14
[Linked Image]

nuff said?
Posted By: arctic338 Re: 375 ruger - 03/09/14
^^^^ Well done!
Posted By: USMA1984DAB Re: 375 ruger - 10/27/23
I would like to add/share what I have done with the .375 Ruger.

I have an Alaskan with 20" barrel and Hogue overmolded. I have milled off the bolt knob, threaded it, and installed a larger aluminum knob to facilitate my lefty use of a righty rifle. It sports a Leupold VX-6 1-6x24.

All data taken from my strap-on chronograph.

Buffalo Bore 270 gr TSX
1. 2687
2. 2763
3. 2748
4. 2758
5. 2758

SD = 31.67
ES = 76
AVG = 2743FPS


Hornady 300gr DGS
1. 2479
2. 2456
3. 2470
4. 2448
5. 2469

SD = 12.3
ES = 31
AVG = 2464FPS


Handload - 79.8gr W760, CCI 250, Hornady 270gr SP-RP
1. 2702
2. 2707
3. 2732
4. 2702
5. 2727

SD = 14
ES = 30
AVG = 2714

Quickload predicted 2611FPS, so I apparently have a "fast" rifle.

I started with RL15 in 2019, then could not find any, so switched to W760. Just bought another 8lbs./700 rounds worth.

I detailed the use of the Buffalo load in RSA via my safari report. The TSXs did a great job! The Hornady's are less expensive and are fine for deer in MO where 75 yards is a long shot.
Posted By: kk alaska Re: 375 ruger - 10/27/23
LH Ruger Hawkeye 20" 375 Ruger Mcmillon Stock Vortex Viper 2x7 Scope

Hornady case, CCI Mag Primer, 2725 FPS, RS BG 81.5 GR, 270 Barns TSX, 3 @ .49" at 100 yards 10 below 0 F
Posted By: ldmay375 Re: 375 ruger - 10/27/23
I am a big fan of the 375 Ruger, and also the 416 Ruger. The older 20" Alaskans with aftermarket stocks and a little trigger smoothing or replacement are in the top few of my favorite rifles.

The 375 Ruger cartridge is certainly my favorite.375.

I might be stuck in the Stone Age as to powder choice. I have been using H380 with the 270 grain TSX since Barnes published the data. No complaints as to velocity nor the accuracy. This past year I have loaded the 270 grain LRX with it at a bit longer COAL than Barnes. Seems to work well with it also. I have not been motivated to try other powders. Though it seems there are several other good to excellent choices.
Posted By: Sako76 Re: 375 ruger - 02/08/24
I have a Ruger Alaskan in 375, a buddy on this site worked up a load with H-380 and a 250 grain Barnes TTSX@2650 fps that shoots cloverleafs!
Posted By: Wildcatter264 Re: 375 ruger - 02/10/24
Originally Posted by rogn
The decrease in recorded velocity as load limits are approached seems to be a common phenominum. This says you are in never never land and anything, any variant can cause a real pressure excursion. Your gun is trying to warn you!

I always document my chronograph and range data on Excel data sheets for each cartridge. This makes it simple to use the graphing function to display ‘MV vs powder charge’ 2-axis graphs. The slope tends to be fairly uniform but eventually tends to flatten as it gets near the charge where sticky extraction soon follows. I’ve learned, with time and hard knocks, to stop increasing charges when the slope shows a definite flattening.

I surmise that the point where the slope definitely changes represents as high a pressure as I’m willing to accept, without measuring chamber pressure more directly, at least with a strain gauge. Because I’m reluctant to do that, I accept the flattening slope as an empirical indicator that pushing charges - and therefore, pressures higher - doesn’t increase MV meaningfully and exposes the rifle and shooter to unwarranted risk.

I’ve graphed enough cartridges and rifles to rely on this method, despite lack of more direct evidence of chamber pressure, as good enough from a practical perspective. It’s kept my rifles and me in one piece, respectively.
Posted By: ldmay375 Re: 375 ruger - 02/10/24
That seems like a good procedure / process to me.
Posted By: bluefish Re: 375 ruger - 02/10/24
We are heading for an almost 20 year old answer to a question noone asked. I just fail to see what the round brings to the table for which a place has already been set.
Posted By: 458Win Re: 375 ruger - 02/10/24
Originally Posted by bluefish
We are heading for an almost 20 year old answer to a question noone asked. I just fail to see what the round brings to the table for which a place has already been set.


The 375 H&H was, and remains, an excellent cartridge. But there are few man made objects Orr tools that can not be improved upon.
Being designed for temperature sensitive Cordite powder the old H&H round is long, belted and severally tapered to assist with extraction in hot climates.
The 375 Ruger does not face those constraints as we have modern temperature insensitive powders, the belt is unnecessary so a shorter case with less taper will allow equal, actually a bit more, powder capacity.
The shorter case means it easily fits in less expensive standard length actions .

A shorter case means little to most people but if you use your rifle on dangerous game the ability to operate the bolt even a tiny fraction of a second faster can be a lifesaver . That’s why many PH’s prefer double barrel rifles.
A fraction of a second may not seem like much when you are at the range, but anyone who ever played , or watches sports, will tell you that the difference between being the fastest by even a nanosecond can separate the top boxer, batter, soccer player, sprinter or NFL lineman from winning or loosing . And when your life in on the line you want every advantage you can get
Posted By: Wildcatter264 Re: 375 ruger - 02/10/24
Couldn’t agree more on Phil’s comment about the importance of split second speed on DG. Whether a brown bear or elephant at close quarters, the follow up shot, if needed at an incoming or departing animal - even though it may be mortally wounded - makes the difference on whether a straight forward plan works or winds up in a messy end.

Getting mashed or ripped apart by claws or tusks is real, if the 2nd and/or 3rd shots are not very fast. Even when the wounded animal starts a retreat, the ability to stop a long, maybe dangerous or futile tracking job, is often a matter of split seconds, as Phil points out.

No matter how well made, H&H length bolt actions take a bit longer to work and the unsupported length of the bolt protruding from the raceways is just longer enough that a bit more wobble results than a standard LA bolt. Seemingly small differences but since we’re splitting hairs, split hairs do make a difference.

Beyond that 2nd shot, the situation is getting dire as more follow ups may be possible infrequently, and then split seconds do stack up and the difference is either real or irrelevant. Just my opinion based on much less experience than Phil and others bring to their informed conclusions.

BTW, I’m an unabashed admirer and user of classical cartridges that work. The 375H&H holds a real place in my list of these old tried-and-true classics. However, the 375 Ruger is one of those rare innovations that combine the best of the past - the proven 3/8” bullet diameter - with a modern design case which fits in a standard LA length action. The best of both worlds IMHO.
Posted By: Snowwolfe Re: 375 ruger - 02/10/24
One of the few rifles I wished I never sold was my left Ruger 375. I think the next time I see a fresh production run of brass I'll stock up then work on finding/building a rifle for the brass.
Posted By: bluefish Re: 375 ruger - 02/10/24
I honestly wonder if anyone was ever killed using a magnum length Mauser when a standard length Mauser would have saved their life? Further if using a M70 in 375H&H and a M70 in 375 Ruger could anyone demonstrate a measurable cycling speed difference? It would make for an interesting experiment.
Posted By: scottf270 Re: 375 ruger - 02/11/24
375 Ruger fan here. While the 375H&H is a proven cartridge there can be no doubt the Ruger is " better" in several ways. In the end, like what you like.
Posted By: Riflecrank Re: 375 ruger - 02/11/24
The .375 Ruger is an improvement versus the .375 H&H for all the reasons elucidated above.
Similarly, shorter bolt throw honors go to the .458 WinMag as an improvement over the .458 Lott.
New powders and new bullets make the SAAMI .458 WinMag the clear winner, disproving all of the Lottite denials.
Single-load it to same greater MAP and COL as the .458 Lott for stunt shooting, and it outruns the Lott.
Keep a magazine full of premium bullets for short-range, quick follow-up work with the .458 WinMag.
Unfortunately the .458/.375 Ruger is not an improvement over the .458/.375 H&H 2.5".
Posted By: bluefish Re: 375 ruger - 02/11/24
Of course the Lott came AFTER the win mag.
Posted By: 458Win Re: 375 ruger - 02/11/24
Originally Posted by bluefish
Of course the Lott came AFTER the win mag.

And Jack Lott said in print numerous times that all he wanted was a cartridge that consistently gave 2150 fps with a 500 gr bullet. With modern powders the 458 Win easily beats that and Hornady ballisticians assure me that AT EQUAL PRESSURES, there is only around 60-80 fps difference between the 458 Win and the 458 Lott.
Posted By: Snowwolfe Re: 375 ruger - 02/11/24
Any idea if Hornady will do another production run of 375 Ruger brass in the future?
Or will they just stick to the money and make ammo?
Posted By: Riflecrank Re: 375 ruger - 02/12/24
Originally Posted by bluefish
Of course the Lott came AFTER the win mag.

Yes, that makes the comparison a temporal mirror image.
The .375 Ruger vs .375 H&H is the left-handed isomer,
and the .458 WinMag versus .458 Lott is the right-handed isomer,
just to mix the analogy a little more.

Also, just to spread the word to those wrong-thinkers who deny the .458 WinMag,
and never look at the currently 190-page thread devoted to the King of Cartridges,
here is the latest snippet:

Jack Lott just became more understandable regarding his suicide.
1. He used a pre-existing .450 Watts Magnum reamer
2. in a pre-existing SAAMI .458 WM rifle,
3. trimmed the brass 0.050" shorter, and voila, named the "new" cartridge for himself.
Then he developed the backstory.
4. Did not tell that his first shot at a cape buffalo in 1959, with his new .458 WM M70 African, was a gut shot with the 510-gr RNSP.
5. Did not tell that his second shot with the 500-gr FMJ "Solid" from WRAC deformed and went squirrely because of the excessive muzzle velocity generated by the SAAMI .458 WM.
6. Exaggerated the extent of his injuries from the sick buffalo for sympathy and as raison d'etre for more velocity with crummy bullets that were not able to withstand the warp speed of the .458 Winchester Magnum.

Sextuple Stolen Valor.
Victims of it were James Watts, the .458 Winchester Magnum, and all of us.
Oh the shame of it all.
Posted By: Riflecrank Re: 375 ruger - 02/12/24
Originally Posted by 458Win
Originally Posted by bluefish
Of course the Lott came AFTER the win mag.

And Jack Lott said in print numerous times that all he wanted was a cartridge that consistently gave 2150 fps with a 500 gr bullet. With modern powders the 458 Win easily beats that and Hornady ballisticians assure me that AT EQUAL PRESSURES, there is only around 60-80 fps difference between the 458 Win and the 458 Lott.

Sir Phil,
You got that a little wrong.

You should have said when both cartridges are loaded to their SAAMI specifications, as Hornady would do,
not "AT EQUAL PRESSURES."

That is 60,000 psi MAP for the .458 Winchester Magnum and 3.340" COL limit.
That is 62,500 psi MAP for the .458 Lott and 3.600" COL limit.

Hornady published data over 20 years ago showing that the .458 Lott only had a +50 fps advantage
over the .458 Winchester Magnum with SAAMI maximum pressures and COLs for both.
That is with same 500-gr Hornady bullets in same 24"-length barrels by same maker,
though the .458 Lott had 1:10" twist and the .458 Winchester Magnum had 1:14" twist,
as specified by SAAMI.
That twist difference is insignificant.

If it is now up to 60-80 fps advantage to the .458 Lott I would be surprised and have to attribute that to advances in propellants.
Nowadays the .458 Winchester Magnum might beat the .458 Lott by 60-80 fps
if both are loaded "AT EQUAL PRESSURES" and COLs.
That is what we call .458 WM+ loads.

The .458 Lott (2.8") should be renamed the .458 Watts to return the stolen valor of the .450 Watts Magnum (2.85").
Posted By: Wildcatter264 Re: 375 ruger - 02/12/24
Originally Posted by Riflecrank
The .375 Ruger is an improvement versus the .375 H&H for all the reasons elucidated above.
Unfortunately the .458/.375 Ruger is not an improvement over the .458/.375 H&H 2.5".

Sir Ron,

Can’t comment on the lack of virtue of the 458/375 Ruger so defer to your assessment. I do know that rebore of the Alaskan Hawkeye barrel to 0.458” is infeasible due to depth of rear sight screw hole depth, per JES.

However, the 404/375 Ruger (0.423” caliber) is a significant step up in power, duplicating the Rigby and Remington 416 MVs and modern 404 Jeffery ballistics, all with the 400 grain bullets, either SPs or mono-solids depending on target. No other mod needed to the Ruger 375 Hawkeyes other than rebore. Definitive medicine on Cape buffalo. Might try the 404/375 Alaskan on elephant this summer with the unfailing 400 grain 0.423” CEB Safari Solid.

The only obstacle to that plan is the temptation to reprising with the Hawkeye African currently converted to a 458 WM. If I can get it modified to the longer mag version in the next couple of months to get true 458 WM+ 3.5” COAL the choice will be clear.
Posted By: CZ550 Re: 375 ruger - 02/12/24
Just a reminder that the honorable .375 H&H can easily be "cleaned up" to the AI version, making it the equivalent of a .375 Wby. Still, H&H ammo can be used, if needed for Improving cartridges or in a pinch. So, a question: does that still make it inferior to the "magic" of a shorter throw from the Ruger? I've read quite a bit on this debate, but never yet on comparing any advantage of a .375 Ruger over a .375 Wby or AI.

Just some of my preliminary thoughts when I picked up my .375 H&H a year ago this month. I may yet have it AI'd. I've lots of new-unfired brass.

Yes, I know that could possibly (in theory) slow reaction times down a little for a second, third shot due to more recoil, etc. But so far, no one has ventured into a debate of any real advantage of a .375 Ruger over a .375 Wby when facing "danger in the tall grass" or bush! Why? Perceptions perhaps?

Bob
www.bigbores.ca
Posted By: 86thecat Re: 375 ruger - 02/12/24
Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Originally Posted by bluefish
Of course the Lott came AFTER the win mag.

Yes, that makes the comparison a temporal mirror image.
The .375 Ruger vs .375 H&H is the left-handed isomer,
and the .458 WinMag versus .458 Lott is the right-handed isomer,
just to mix the analogy a little more.

Also, just to spread the word to those wrong-thinkers who deny the .458 WinMag,
and never look at the currently 190-page thread devoted to the King of Cartridges,
here is the latest snippet:

Jack Lott just became more understandable regarding his suicide.
1. He used a pre-existing .450 Watts Magnum reamer
2. in a pre-existing SAAMI .458 WM rifle,
3. trimmed the brass 0.050" shorter, and voila, named the "new" cartridge for himself.
Then he developed the backstory.
4. Did not tell that his first shot at a cape buffalo in 1959, with his new .458 WM M70 African, was a gut shot with the 510-gr RNSP.
5. Did not tell that his second shot with the 500-gr FMJ "Solid" from WRAC deformed and went squirrely because of the excessive muzzle velocity generated by the SAAMI .458 WM.
6. Exaggerated the extent of his injuries from the sick buffalo for sympathy and as raison d'etre for more velocity with crummy bullets that were not able to withstand the warp speed of the .458 Winchester Magnum.

Sextuple Stolen Valor.
Victims of it were James Watts, the .458 Winchester Magnum, and all of us.
Oh the shame of it all.


It's all about theoat length in the 458. SAAMI throat Lott gives WM intended velocity without powder compaction. CIP throat gives the Lott much higher velocity. Weatherby freebore would be best of all for the Lott, accuracy and velocity.

https://forums.accuratereloading.co...&a=tpc&m=9201027511&s=518103
Posted By: 458Win Re: 375 ruger - 02/12/24
Originally Posted by bluefish
I honestly wonder if anyone was ever killed using a magnum length Mauser when a standard length Mauser would have saved their life? Further if using a M70 in 375H&H and a M70 in 375 Ruger could anyone demonstrate a measurable cycling speed difference? It would make for an interesting experiment.
Dead men don’t talk
But there are many tales from hunters like Karamojo Bell who were adamant that shorter cartridges made a difference .
Posted By: Riflecrank Re: 375 ruger - 02/13/24
Originally Posted by 86thecat
Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Originally Posted by bluefish
Of course the Lott came AFTER the win mag.

Yes, that makes the comparison a temporal mirror image.
The .375 Ruger vs .375 H&H is the left-handed isomer,
and the .458 WinMag versus .458 Lott is the right-handed isomer,
just to mix the analogy a little more.

Also, just to spread the word to those wrong-thinkers who deny the .458 WinMag,
and never look at the currently 190-page thread devoted to the King of Cartridges,
here is the latest snippet:

Jack Lott just became more understandable regarding his suicide.
1. He used a pre-existing .450 Watts Magnum reamer
2. in a pre-existing SAAMI .458 WM rifle,
3. trimmed the brass 0.050" shorter, and voila, named the "new" cartridge for himself.
Then he developed the backstory.
4. Did not tell that his first shot at a cape buffalo in 1959, with his new .458 WM M70 African, was a gut shot with the 510-gr RNSP.
5. Did not tell that his second shot with the 500-gr FMJ "Solid" from WRAC deformed and went squirrely because of the excessive muzzle velocity generated by the SAAMI .458 WM.
6. Exaggerated the extent of his injuries from the sick buffalo for sympathy and as raison d'etre for more velocity with crummy bullets that were not able to withstand the warp speed of the .458 Winchester Magnum.

Sextuple Stolen Valor.
Victims of it were James Watts, the .458 Winchester Magnum, and all of us.
Oh the shame of it all.


It's all about theoat length in the 458. SAAMI throat Lott gives WM intended velocity without powder compaction. CIP throat gives the Lott much higher velocity. Weatherby freebore would be best of all for the Lott, accuracy and velocity.

https://forums.accuratereloading.co...&a=tpc&m=9201027511&s=518103

86thecat,
Besides 101 USES For A DEAD CAT, I have learned a lott since that 2009-dated thread you linked from "the other forum." My handle was RIP on that thread.
CIP homologated the .458 Lott long-throated first, and then changed it to match the SAAMI version.
Based on the drawings I have with dates of revisions:

2000 CIP: The throat on their .458 Lott was same as on the SAAMI .458 WM, tacked onto the end of chamber for 2.800" brass,
Initial CIP homologation.

2002 CIP: Same long throat as the year 2000 version .458 Lott.

2006 CIP: Short-throated .458 Lott arrives, matches exactly the SAAMI .458 Lott homologation for chamber dimensions.
Only difference is CIP MAP is 4300 bar (62,350 psi) while SAAMI MAP is 62,500 psi for .458 Lott.

First SAAMI homologation of the .458 Lott appears to have been by Art Alphin's A-Square Co. on 06-04-1998.
Blame him for the handicapping.

There has been one and only one chamber specification for the .458 Winchester Magnum, matching for both SAAMI (1956) and CIP (1984),
except SAAMI MAP is only 60,000 psi while CIP allows MAP of 4300 bar (62,350 psi).
The CIP .458 WM is actually a .458 WM+ according to Square Table parlance.
Posted By: Riflecrank Re: 375 ruger - 02/13/24
Originally Posted by CZ550
Just a reminder that the honorable .375 H&H can easily be "cleaned up" to the AI version, making it the equivalent of a .375 Wby. Still, H&H ammo can be used, if needed for Improving cartridges or in a pinch. So, a question: does that still make it inferior to the "magic" of a shorter throw from the Ruger? I've read quite a bit on this debate, but never yet on comparing any advantage of a .375 Ruger over a .375 Wby or AI.

Just some of my preliminary thoughts when I picked up my .375 H&H a year ago this month. I may yet have it AI'd. I've lots of new-unfired brass.

Yes, I know that could possibly (in theory) slow reaction times down a little for a second, third shot due to more recoil, etc. But so far, no one has ventured into a debate of any real advantage of a .375 Ruger over a .375 Wby when facing "danger in the tall grass" or bush! Why? Perceptions perhaps?

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Sir Bob,
Why do a .375 H&H-AI when the .375 WbyMag has all the bugs worked out of it ?
The .375 WbyMag came first, and is now the best.

The .375 Weatherby Magnum existed as a Weatherby wildcat since 1945, long-throated.
It got a long-throated CIP homologation in 1987, then sometime after 2002,
when Weatherby revived it for resumption of factory production,
it got a throat proportionally similar to the 6.5 Creedmoor.
My Dave Manson reamer drawing from circa 2003 is specified to be according to CIP.
Parallel-sided throat length is 0.370" and diameter is 0.3756", just .0006" greater than bullet diameter.
Leade angle is 1*07'00".
CIP MAP is 4400 bar (63,800 psi) for the .375 Weatherby Magnum.
Compare that to 4300 bar (62,350 psi) for the .375 H&H Magnum.

Also, if you fire factory .375 H&H ammo in a .375 WbyMag chamber you slow it down about 100 fps and make it gentler in recoil.
Hunt with it while fire-forming brass.
My favorite .375 WbyMag shoots 0.8" for three shots at 100 yards when doing that with Remington factory ammo.
Or get the excellent Norma-made, properly head-stamped brass and gain more than 4 grains water gross capacity
compared to the W-W, R-P and Hornady brass makes.

The .375 WbyMag is my #2 favorite cartridge after the #1 .458 WinMag.
It definitely beats the .375 Ruger except for the extra 0.2" length of bolt throw.
Somehow, Hal Waugh survived decades of "Fair Chase" in Alaska as a PH,
despite his preference for an M70 .375 H&H re-chambered to the .375 WbyMag.
He called her Big Nan.
He must have had nine lives.
Posted By: 86thecat Re: 375 ruger - 02/13/24
Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Originally Posted by 86thecat
Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Originally Posted by bluefish
Of course the Lott came AFTER the win mag.

Yes, that makes the comparison a temporal mirror image.
The .375 Ruger vs .375 H&H is the left-handed isomer,
and the .458 WinMag versus .458 Lott is the right-handed isomer,
just to mix the analogy a little more.

Also, just to spread the word to those wrong-thinkers who deny the .458 WinMag,
and never look at the currently 190-page thread devoted to the King of Cartridges,
here is the latest snippet:

Jack Lott just became more understandable regarding his suicide.
1. He used a pre-existing .450 Watts Magnum reamer
2. in a pre-existing SAAMI .458 WM rifle,
3. trimmed the brass 0.050" shorter, and voila, named the "new" cartridge for himself.
Then he developed the backstory.
4. Did not tell that his first shot at a cape buffalo in 1959, with his new .458 WM M70 African, was a gut shot with the 510-gr RNSP.
5. Did not tell that his second shot with the 500-gr FMJ "Solid" from WRAC deformed and went squirrely because of the excessive muzzle velocity generated by the SAAMI .458 WM.
6. Exaggerated the extent of his injuries from the sick buffalo for sympathy and as raison d'etre for more velocity with crummy bullets that were not able to withstand the warp speed of the .458 Winchester Magnum.

Sextuple Stolen Valor.
Victims of it were James Watts, the .458 Winchester Magnum, and all of us.
Oh the shame of it all.


It's all about theoat length in the 458. SAAMI throat Lott gives WM intended velocity without powder compaction. CIP throat gives the Lott much higher velocity. Weatherby freebore would be best of all for the Lott, accuracy and velocity.

https://forums.accuratereloading.co...&a=tpc&m=9201027511&s=518103

86thecat,
Besides 101 USES For A DEAD CAT, I have learned a lott since that 2009-dated thread you linked from "the other forum." My handle was RIP on that thread.
CIP homologated the .458 Lott long-throated first, and then changed it to match the SAAMI version.
Based on the drawings I have with dates of revisions:

2000 CIP: The throat on their .458 Lott was same as on the SAAMI .458 WM, tacked onto the end of chamber for 2.800" brass,
Initial CIP homologation.

2002 CIP: Same long throat as the year 2000 version .458 Lott.

2006 CIP: Short-throated .458 Lott arrives, matches exactly the SAAMI .458 Lott homologation for chamber dimensions.
Only difference is CIP MAP is 4300 bar (62,350 psi) while SAAMI MAP is 62,500 psi for .458 Lott.

First SAAMI homologation of the .458 Lott appears to have been by Art Alphin's A-Square Co. on 06-04-1998.
Blame him for the handicapping.

There has been one and only one chamber specification for the .458 Winchester Magnum, matching for both SAAMI (1956) and CIP (1984),
except SAAMI MAP is only 60,000 psi while CIP allows MAP of 4300 bar (62,350 psi).
The CIP .458 WM is actually a .458 WM+ according to Square Table parlance.
Posted By: ldmay375 Re: 375 ruger - 02/13/24
The 375 H&H cartridge will always have the nostalgia and historical emotions with it. I have a few of the rifles and nostalgic feelings for it. But, the 375 Ruger had my attention as soon as I was aware of it. The concept of a off the shelf or re-barreled rifle, with the same action as my 338 Winchester, with the same or slightly better ballistics, seemed good to me. I have no regrets with the cartridge.

I can say the same regarding the 416 Ruger, action fit, and no regrets. It might be a little less velocity than the 416 Remington with equal barrel lengths, but serves the same role. A little less psi, powder, and COAL. Without doing the math, I would guess 75 fps on the average, in favor of the Remington version. I am not going too excited over even 100 fps. Particularly when the 20" Ruger version will do 2500+fps with 350 grain monolithic bullets.
I am not bashing the 416 Remington. I think the 416 Hoffman and Remington are great rounds. I have a M70 416 Remington, stainless re-barrel that I like quite a bit. I do recall some of the 416 Rigby nostalgists, seemingly offended by these cartridges.
Posted By: CZ550 Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
I'm not a particularly nostalgic person. Pragmatic would be a better definition of attitudes and thinking. And within reason, I've had to restrain my wants to economical realities. I could have been a professor or more likely a scientist of sorts. But being born on the East Coast of Canada during the Great Depression, my father being a very intelligent man was advanced above others in the same circumstances - a commercial fisherman with uncertain winter weather and markets: meaning he couldn't afford university fees for his youngest son, though qualified. I went to a theological school instead, with some help and it was significantly cheaper, and I'm not complaining as I know God had his own plan for my existence on Planet Earth. BUT, all that to say being a pastor in country churches in the 1950s and '60s "Down East" wasn't the most lucrative "business" in a temporal sense. Not complaining but just explaining that I've not been able to indulge my "senses" as many have.

But what I have, and have had, has been sufficient for study and learning the arts of handloading and hunting, for which I give God thanks - even though many in my rank would consider it overindulgence.

Sir Ron, thanks for your elaborations. Our best gunsmith has retired. I'm now searching for another who would be capable of making my .375 H&H into a AI or Wby. My preference would be the Weatherby, but, rightly or wrongly, I figured any local smith would likely have an AI reamer, maybe not a Wby. Then I already have lots of Rem brass in H&H - don't want to go to the bother, expense and uncertainty of finding Wby brass.

All this begs the question: Those who have argued as a main point that manipulation of a Ruger .375 could, in theory, be more of a "life saver" if confronted by and angry bull or bear than a .375 H&H, so I ask again: Why is that argument raised in regard to the H&H and NOT the Wby or Ai- because the main complaint of the longer action being slowness of operation compared to the Ruger?

In anticipation. . .

Bob
www.bigbores.ca
Posted By: colorado Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
I have a Rem XCR II I had rechambered from 375 H&H to 375 Weatherby. The rifle came from the factory with QC issues, rough chamber, extractor too large. I had my gunsmith, Kevin Weaver, rechamber it to 375 Weatherby. No regrets. It shoots 300g A-Frames at 2800 fps, 350g Woodleigh HD SPs at 2550 fps and factory 375 H&H 300g A-Frames at 2450 (which is what I used to take my brown bear). The rifle, unloaded with scope weighs 7 1/2 lbs. Recoil with 375 Weatherby factory or handloads is a bit snappy. With 375 H&H factory loads, it's a pussycat.
Posted By: 458Win Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
All this begs the question: Those who have argued as a main point that manipulation of a Ruger .375 could, in theory, be more of a "life saver" if confronted by and angry bull or bear than a .375 H&H, so I ask again: Why is that argument raised in regard to the H&H and NOT the Wby or Ai- because the main complaint of the longer action being slowness of operation compared to the Ruger?

In anticipation. . .

Bob
www.bigbores.ca[/quote]

Speed of operation is not simply a theory. Hunters from WDM “Karamojo” Bell to modern African PH and professional cullers like Richard Harland have addressed it and I speak for personal experience of having jousted with wounded bears for over 40 years.
The primary reason heavy double rifles remain popular is due to their abilities to make a quick second shot and those of us who choose to use and rely on bolt rifles base our opinions on real life experience.
Posted By: CZ550 Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
Originally Posted by 458Win
All this begs the question: Those who have argued as a main point that manipulation of a Ruger .375 could, in theory, be more of a "life saver" if confronted by and angry bull or bear than a .375 H&H, so I ask again: Why is that argument raised in regard to the H&H and NOT the Wby or Ai- because the main complaint of the longer action being slowness of operation compared to the Ruger?

In anticipation. . .

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Speed of operation is not simply a theory. Hunters from WDM “Karamojo” Bell to modern African PH and professional cullers like Richard Harland have addressed it and I speak for personal experience of having jousted with wounded bears for over 40 years.
The primary reason heavy double rifles remain popular is due to their abilities to make a quick second shot and those of us who choose to use and rely on bolt rifles base our opinions on real life experience.[/quote]

Not to argue the point with you Phil, as a pro who has had to go into the thick stuff to deal with wounded BBs, but with those, who, like myself, are not pros, but have pushed the argument that it's faster for a follow-up than the slightly longer actions: :.416 Rem vs the .416 Ruger, etc. I seriously doubt that most have the experience or need to tell the difference - yet they push that point. . . . Have they practiced enough or have had to deal with a life or death situation where a difference would be noticable? It seems to me that we need to practice with what we (the amateurs) have to the point of auto responses without thinking about it. The client is not dealing with a wounded buff, lion or BB on his/her own! The're very thankful to have competent pros beside them if things go sideways - like yourself.

But thanks for sharing your experience.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca
Posted By: jwp475 Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
A semi auto is faster than any bolt action. If the speed required to cycle the action is super important then the semi auto is the spedd king.
Posted By: jwp475 Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
A semi auto is faster than any bolt action. If the speed required to cycle the action is super important then the semi auto is the speed king.
Posted By: bluefish Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
Originally Posted by CZ550
Originally Posted by 458Win
All this begs the question: Those who have argued as a main point that manipulation of a Ruger .375 could, in theory, be more of a "life saver" if confronted by and angry bull or bear than a .375 H&H, so I ask again: Why is that argument raised in regard to the H&H and NOT the Wby or Ai- because the main complaint of the longer action being slowness of operation compared to the Ruger?

In anticipation. . .

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Speed of operation is not simply a theory. Hunters from WDM “Karamojo” Bell to modern African PH and professional cullers like Richard Harland have addressed it and I speak for personal experience of having jousted with wounded bears for over 40 years.
The primary reason heavy double rifles remain popular is due to their abilities to make a quick second shot and those of us who choose to use and rely on bolt rifles base our opinions on real life experience.

Not to argue the point with you Phil, as a pro who has had to go into the thick stuff to deal with wounded BBs, but with those, who, like myself, are not pros, but have pushed the argument that it's faster for a follow-up than the slightly longer actions: :.416 Rem vs the .416 Ruger, etc. I seriously doubt that most have the experience or need to tell the difference - yet they push that point. . . . Have they practiced enough or have had to deal with a life or death situation where a difference would be noticable? It seems to me that we need to practice with what we (the amateurs) have to the point of auto responses without thinking about it. The client is not dealing with a wounded buff, lion or BB on his/her own! The're very thankful to have competent pros beside them if things go sideways - like yourself.

But thanks for sharing your experience.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca[/quote]

And yet Darcy Echols will happily build and chamber DG cartridges on M70s.
Posted By: ldmay375 Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
Bob, I suppose being able to capitalize on any advantage the shorter bolt throw, would vary and be user specific. Though, I cannot see the potential to do so as a negative. I would also "assume", that the person that picks up / handles a rifle a day or week prior to "season" is probably handling a 3.340" or shorter type cartridge. To most, the 375 H&H is an "elephant gun". I would guess the operation of a bolt throw the same as their 270 Winchester or 30-06 would have an advantage.

The overall compactness of the Ruger rifles in the 375 Ruger, compared to my M70 375 H&H was an attractant. That is including the original 23" blued & walnut 375 Ruger. The 20" stainless was better yet, to me. And, I found out the 375 Rugers did not need "special powders" to perform as advertised. The "special powders" fallacy was bantered about quite a bit.

Purely a personal preference use, but the 375 Ruger is a pretty well designed and performing cartridge.
Posted By: 458Win Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
www.bigbores.ca[/quote]


www.bigbores.ca[/quote]

And yet Darcy Echols will happily build and chamber DG cartridges on M70s.[/quote]

D’Arcy will build whatever caliber the client requests and pays for. The vast majority of his clients accrued their wealth by means other than hunting.
Although I know of one African PH who ordered a 375 Ruger
Posted By: John55 Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
www.bigbores.ca[/quote]

And yet Darcy Echols will happily build and chamber DG cartridges on M70s.[/quote]

D’Arcy will build whatever caliber the client requests and pays for. The vast majority of his clients accrued their wealth by means other than hunting.
Although I know of one African PH who ordered a 375 Ruger[/quote]

And if memory serves, didn’t he also build your daughter a 416 Rem on a M70 that she uses for backup and her own hunting?
If folks think an H&H based cartridge is long, they should try a 416 Rigby or other super large rounds such as the 505 Gibbs!
Posted By: bluefish Re: 375 ruger - 02/14/24
Many African hunters have used magnum Mausers for a long time. Are there known instances of hunters being killed because they were using a magnum Mauser instead of a standard Mauser?
Posted By: Riflehunter Re: 375 ruger - 02/15/24
I'm not convinced that the .375 Ruger is such a wonderful design for a dangerous game cartridge or the Ruger rifle that houses it is so wonderful either. I would rather see perhaps a 20-23 degree shoulder rather than 30 degree on a dangerous game cartridge for better feeding as opposed to a match-winning cartridge where 30 degrees is fine, I'd rather see the shoulder pushed back a little and the case shortened slightly so it houses the 350 grain Woodleigh's better. If it had the same powder capacity as the .375 H & H in such a light rifle it would be better, rather than more powder capacity. There should be an easy remedy to hold 4 .375 Ruger cartridges in the magazine...especially for dangerous game. The wooden stocks splitting isn't desirable either.
Posted By: CZ550 Re: 375 ruger - 02/15/24
Hey, I pointed out at least once on this thread that I'm neutral on the matter. The .375 H&H came my way as a matter of convenience. I was in the market for either, and I had tried and found a .375 Ruger twice at my local emporrium but no dies and no brass, nor factory ammo, which were all available for the H&H, and the price I paid for the H&H was a "steal" in my view, so I wasn't bashing the Ruger! The point I was making - because it came up on this thread several times - was: Why was/is the "improved" version in the Wby and Al NOT compared with the Ruger in the matter of a better deal for safety's sake? It is quite apparent to me, at least, that is due to the "improved" versions bettering the Ruger in ballistics, which has nothing to do with the matter of "swiftness" of one over the other. Have I made the point? Is the (honest) question understood, that has NOTHING to do with preferences of style, compactness, etc?

Perhaps we all have our preferences and tastes in rifles as we do in other matters, and that's legit, but for the ordinary "joe" it has little to do with the finite improvement of swiftness in working the action. Over 60+ years of hunting I've often enough chosen a single-shot in small, medium and large calibers, just because I like 'em.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca
Posted By: jwp475 Re: 375 ruger - 02/15/24
The shape of the375 H&H aids in case extraction and feeding. Very important on a dangerous game rifle
Posted By: 458Win Re: 375 ruger - 02/15/24
Originally Posted by jwp475
The shape of the375 H&H aids in case extraction and feeding. Very important on a dangerous game rifle

Tapered cases were highly useful for EXTRACTION with temperature sensitive powders . That was the reason for the taper. But for feeding, once the tip of the bullet goes into the chamber the rest will follow and the taper has very little useful effect.
Posted By: Riflecrank Re: 375 ruger - 02/15/24
"Who Says The Bolt-Action Is Slow!"
By FINN AAGAARD
AMERICAN RIFLEMAN September 1982, pp. 36-39, 72-73

"Smoothness is of much consequence in a bolt-action, whereas the length of the bolt travel really is not.
The slickest action in my rack is that on a 35-year-old Model 70 chambered for the .375 H&H Mag. cartridge.
Despite its half-inch longer bolt throw, it is significantly faster than a new and still slightly rough short-action
Ruger Model 77 in .243 Win.
"A new bolt-action is usually anything but slick. A chap who knows what he is doing can quickly remedy that
by polishing the cocking cams and lapping the bolt into the receiver. But the ignorant or careless
can ruin the rifle equally quickly, especially if he gets lapping compound on the mating surfaces of the bolt lugs
and their seats in the recesses. Cleaning all the oil off the bolt, cocking cams, and inside the receiver,
then putting the rifle in a padded vise and cycling the action 200-300 times with the trigger removed
will improve things considerably. And it's a lot safer."


Yep, I sure do like the 20-degree shoulders on anything.
They put that shoulder angle on the .338 Lapua Magnum when it was developed for possible machinegun feeding ease.
Actually has lots of case body taper too, like the parent .416 Rigby.

The taper on the body of the .404 Jeffery is quite minimal, but it sure makes up for it with the slope of the 8*30'31" shoulder angle.
The .416 Rigby has much greater body taper than the 404 Jeffery, and then the crazy abrupt 45-degree (exactly !) shoulder angle.

Somehow, both of those odd ducks had a great following, and still do.
No extra life insurance required for working those bolt throws, same as with the .375 H&H.

Approximate bolt throws:
Short action: 3.1"
Standard action: 3.4"
Long action: 3.6"
Magnum action: 3.8"

That would make the difference between a .243 WCF and a .375 H&H like Sir Saint Finn said, half an inch.

Work those bolts hard and fast whenever they are worked,
but get them slick first.
Maybe you will live to tell of it.
Posted By: 458Win Re: 375 ruger - 02/15/24
With use and a little smoothing the Ruger M77 action becomes one of the slickest and quickest to operate
No small part of that is due to the rugged, spring buffered bolt stop. When operated with the alacrity required on a Dangerous game rifle, the spring gives a noticeable forward assist when you are chambering another round.
Posted By: Riflehunter Re: 375 ruger - 02/15/24
Originally Posted by 458Win
Originally Posted by jwp475
The shape of the375 H&H aids in case extraction and feeding. Very important on a dangerous game rifle

Tapered cases were highly useful for EXTRACTION with temperature sensitive powders . That was the reason for the taper. But for feeding, once the tip of the bullet goes into the chamber the rest will follow and the taper has very little useful effect.
With feeding on a case that hasn't got much taper, it's not the lack of taper per se that sometimes results in rough feeding, but the wide shoulder (together with the wide-angle of the shoulder) that "catches". The wide shoulder results in less taper, but it's the wide shoulder as opposed to the lack of taper that can cause a problem or lack of smoothness in feeding.
Posted By: Snowwolfe Re: 375 ruger - 02/23/24
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by 458Win
Originally Posted by jwp475
The shape of the375 H&H aids in case extraction and feeding. Very important on a dangerous game rifle

Tapered cases were highly useful for EXTRACTION with temperature sensitive powders . That was the reason for the taper. But for feeding, once the tip of the bullet goes into the chamber the rest will follow and the taper has very little useful effect.
With feeding on a case that hasn't got much taper, it's not the lack of taper per se that sometimes results in rough feeding, but the wide shoulder (together with the wide-angle of the shoulder) that "catches". The wide shoulder results in less taper, but it's the wide shoulder as opposed to the lack of taper that can cause a problem or lack of smoothness in feeding.

What part of the action does this “wide shoulder” catch on?
Posted By: mainer_in_ak Re: 375 ruger - 02/23/24
Riflehunter,
Alaska arms llc makes a very sleek +1 mag plate for the 375 ruger.

Regarding feeding, my ruger african feeds smoother than two mausers. One an oberndorf, one an FN.

Also, the ruger cartridge fully snaps into the bolt face earlier in the bolt stroke, than either of my mausers.

These ruger cartridges feed slicker than anything.


I ain't got no dog in the fight though. I got rid of my 375 ruger, in favor of my 9.3x62. I see no point of either the .375 ruger or the 375 h&h, over the 9.3x62. Far too many advantages of the mauser cartridge over the 375 hype.
Posted By: Tuco Re: 375 ruger - 02/23/24
Originally Posted by atkinsonhunting
I see no point in comparing a 375 Ruger to a 375 H&H..They are balistic twins for all practical purposes..

I would take a long hard look at a 375 Ruger if I was buying my first .375, but I am not going to rush out and sell one of my H&HS just to own a Ruger..Mostly because of the amount of ammo I have loaded for the H&H, the brass on hand, the dies, and the testing and tweeking I have done on my H&Hs...

I see no advantage in one over the other, and those that do are nitpicking and have no clue on what is required of either for their intended use..If the short action is a plus then one cannot chew gum and walk at the same time..that 1/8 inch of travel should not mean anything to a rifleman..The non belted case is only in the mind of someone who has read too many gun articles, it means zilch in real life situations, the tapered case of the H&H is a plus in that it won't stick with an over load on ejection but doesn't have much to do with feeding as some proclaim. Case shape doeesn't mean much on feeding, tweeking does..

All in all its just a matter of individual choice as both are fine cartridges. I have built some nice custom Mausers in both calibers and the 416 Ruger and 416 Rem also. They all work in every respect.

Very well said. From its inception, I considered the 375 Ruger little more than a marketing gimmick, a solution in search of a problem. As stated, the miniscule reduction in bolt travel is a complete non-issue in the real world.
Posted By: desertshooter Re: 375 ruger - 02/24/24
My 375 Ruger purchase was pure economics- I had booked a trip to Africa, and with the possibility of dangerous game being on the menu (as well as large plains game) I found myself in need of a large caliber rifle. ANY 375 H&H cost $1500 and up at the time I was shopping, the CZ 550 being the most available, the Ruger African 375 was available and was $800, nearly $700 less for the same ballistic performance, and in a really good looking gun. the difference in price gave me plenty of ammunition, and reloading components, as well as more cash to spend on the trip!
Posted By: 458Win Re: 375 ruger - 02/25/24
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by atkinsonhunting
I see no point in comparing a 375 Ruger to a 375 H&H..They are balistic twins for all practical purposes..

I would take a long hard look at a 375 Ruger if I was buying my first .375, but I am not going to rush out and sell one of my H&HS just to own a Ruger..Mostly because of the amount of ammo I have loaded for the H&H, the brass on hand, the dies, and the testing and tweeking I have done on my H&Hs...

I see no advantage in one over the other, and those that do are nitpicking and have no clue on what is required of either for their intended use..If the short action is a plus then one cannot chew gum and walk at the same time..that 1/8 inch of travel should not mean anything to a rifleman..The non belted case is only in the mind of someone who has read too many gun articles, it means zilch in real life situations, the tapered case of the H&H is a plus in that it won't stick with an over load on ejection but doesn't have much to do with feeding as some proclaim. Case shape doeesn't mean much on feeding, tweeking does..

All in all its just a matter of individual choice as both are fine cartridges. I have built some nice custom Mausers in both calibers and the 416 Ruger and 416 Rem also. They all work in every respect.

Very well said. From its inception, I considered the 375 Ruger little more than a marketing gimmick, a solution in search of a problem. As stated, the miniscule reduction in bolt travel is a complete non-issue in the real world.

Maybe in your world , I won’t argue that.
But as I pointed out, serious hunters from WDM Bell to Richard Harland have stated numerous times that shorter actions have a slight speed advantage ! It is something you may doubt and never notice, but I have on numerous times when adrenaline and tachycardia come into play.
Posted By: Biebs Re: 375 ruger - 02/25/24
I just picked up a stainless/synthetic Ruger Alaskan carbine in 375 Ruger. It's one of the originals without the muzzle brake. Perfect rifle if I make it back to Alaska.
Posted By: Riflehunter Re: 375 ruger - 02/25/24
Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak
Riflehunter,
Alaska arms llc makes a very sleek +1 mag plate for the 375 ruger.
That +1 magazine floorplate is exactly what the .375 Ruger rifle needs. Thanks.
Posted By: Wildcatter264 Re: 375 ruger - 02/25/24
Originally Posted by 458Win
Maybe in your world , I won’t argue that.
But as I pointed out, serious hunters from WDM Bell to Richard Harland have stated numerous times that shorter actions have a slight speed advantage ! It is something you may doubt and never notice, but I have on numerous times when adrenaline and tachycardia come into play.

Anyone who has shot a brown bear, a Cape buffalo, or an elephant at close range recognizes the incredible speed those animals display when they either wheel and flee or come towards the hunter. Speed working the bolt, which only comes with countless accurate repetition - from the shoulder, with sights remaining on target - and reliable tuning of the DGR, are the only controllable factors that will allow a successful follow up shot. Every part of a second counts.

But everyone is entitled to his opinion, whether based on experience or not.
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