Wondering if there is a big difference in stopping power between the two. The reason i'm asking is I'm considering buying a 416 ruger, but I also like the .458 win mag because of more ammo availability and more bullet choices for reloading.. however the .416 ruger has flatter trajectory and probably better penetration because it is a smaller caliber... am I right or wrong? But the .458 seems like it would be better close up stopper. The problem with the .458 is that I can't seem to find a rifle under $1000 that is synthetic and stainless steel with express sights with a short barrel. The .416 ruger is nice because I can get the ruger m77 hawkeye alaskan... which is a nice gun and for $800 it's affordable.

Buy 'em both. You can never have enough 'over .400' caliber rifles.

I can tell you their is a big difference in "Penetration" of the bullet after hitting the target or animal. The .416 wins this match hands down.

The .458 mag has the advantage of more frontal area and 100 grains more bullet weight, which is a plus. I have both and several others and my 416 Rem mag is my favorite all around big bore rifle.

It also can be used for plains game with 300 grain bullets, giving you the same trajectory as a 30-06 but with a lot of clout you betcha.

.............First! Aside from the cartridge, the rifle you get is also very important. Remember the thread you began in the African section about a 416 Ruger Alaskan? Well, unless you cut the barrel down to 20" and maybe do some other work to lighten things up a little bit, you generally won`t find a rifle like a Ruger Alaskan that is chambered in a 458 Win Mag. A 458 Win rifle will be heavier, less handy, less manuverable and longer than the 416 Ruger Alaskan, and will surely cost you more. If you reload, 416 Ruger brass to my knowledge, is no problem to get. Midway has some listed there now.

Secondly! Anything you can successfully hunt with a 458 Win, will apply to the 416 Ruger. When on a guided African DG hunt, or on a NA guided DG hunt, there is always a back up rifle/rifles at the ready. It won`t matter if your carrying a 600 Nitro Express.

Thirdly! If the cost matters to you, as you mention above, the 416 Ruger Alaskan is an excellent compromise.

The 416 Ruger Alaskan sells for an excellent price, will stop any game on earth, has a shorter OAL, is handier with its 20" barrel, is flatter shooting, can double as a plains game rifle using lighter bullets, and imo regardless of 416 bullet selection or the lack of it, it is a more versatile cartridge in the field than is the 458 Win Mag.

The 458 Win is at its best as a shorter ranged DG stopper. The 416 Ruger won`t be all that far behind in that dept, while adding more range versatilty.

Stopping power has been found of late to be more myth than fact. A 416 will actually outpenetrate a 458 in most cases, all other factors being roughly equal. A 416 round through the brain of an Ele will give you a great big thud sound. A miss of the brain with a 505 Gibbs will give - SOMETIMES- a stun effect but so will a near miss from a 416 - sometimes. Can't count on that, better to use a rifle you can shoot well and HIT with. More stopping power in that methodology, always. Short answer to the question, both are capable of doing anything a hand held rifle can be expected to do. Buy and hut with whichever you like with total confidence so long as good bullets are used and placed correctly.

There is not a "big difference" between either round, any way you care to compare them. One is bit flatter shooting and the other a bit heavier hitting. If you are a guide or PH and absolutely need to stop a charge then I prefer the .458. if you are a hunter wanting more versatility then get the .416. There is enough overlap that either will do double duty.

I figured the 416 would be a better penetrator...

Thanks bro... you confirmed my thoughts

Thanks bro... thats exactly what my thoughts are.. 416 out penetrates the .458 but but the 458 has more mass... however this can be good thing and bad thing.

Thanks... my thoughts exactly.. needed someone who knows their stuff to confirm it so i don't end up regretting my purchase

I think the .416 is the right gun for me... in certain cases the .416 is better because it has better penetration

If ya can`t get the job done with a 416 Ruger, then you`d be hard pressed to do so with a 458 as well.

Won`t be the fault of either round if that were the case.

You`ll have the same rifle as my 375 Ruger Alaskan, but with a bigger hole through the plumbing.

After 27 years of use and a lot of testing I remain unconvinced of any superior penetrating ability of the .416 ( 400 gr bullet @ 2350fps) over the 458 ( 500gr bullet @ 2150fps) A little - maybe, sometimes if you are using stout solids - but not enough to make me choose one over the other.

I sure as Hell ain't anywhere NEAR the class of 458Win and Safariman. Please allow me my observations. I use a 45-110 Sharps Rifle to hunt with. It flattened a bull moose with 1 shot.Last week a few of the Campfire brethren hunted buffalo in Wyoming. ONE used a 375 Ruger,the other 2 of us used 45-110's,one original (mine) and one Shiloh Sharps. I saw all 3 bison get hit. The 45 caliber rifles were absolutely devastating. The 375 Ruger killed but the immediate effect was not significant. The BP loaded 545 grain bullet from my gun hit the buffler and drove it to its knees. Jorge's shot blew his buffler right out of its sneakers. I think I'd go with a 458 Win. As far as I am concerned,45 caliber rifles are pure killing machines.

I have owned 4 different .416's and lost count on the .458's. I sold off all the .416 and went with the .458 caliber.

The .416's were in my impression a very nice and manageable step up from the wonderful and easy shooting .375 H&H, but the .458's really turn into something else when you load 500gn and 550gn bullets.

The easy load is the 350fgn X bullets or 400gn Woodleighs and my favorite bullet for all round use is the discontinued 400gn X bullet and then move up to the 550gn Woodleigh. I never saw much use for the 500gn when the heavier slug was available.

A 550gn .458 bullet is a significant step up from the .416 offerings I tried up to 410gn in weight. Sure, they will all kill and are more that is necessary in most cases but we are talking comparison here and not "need".

John

The 458 surely has the better stopping power at the shorter ranges. But what the 416 does that a 458 cannot do quite as well, is offer better longer ranged, flatter shooting versatility for non dangerous plains game.

But as with anything and everything, there are compromises. Being just about right in the middle caliber wise, the 416 offers some of what the 375s can do and a little of what the 458s can do.

Can`t have everything perfectly suited to ALL needs and wishes wrapped up in one cartridge. That`s usually why compromising is done.

For plains game and DG too, the 416 is an excellent compromise between a 375 and a 458.

The other benefit of the 416 is you can shoot it from field positions without regard to recoil. The same cannot be said of the 458. The 458 is wonderful offhand, but from field positions you are going to need some additional mental effort before squezing off a round.

Polska.........In case you haven`t seen this, here`s is a little look see into the 416 Ruger.

rifleshootermag.com,,,,,,,click on "view all" in the video section,,,,,click "ammo" at upper right, and find the video about the 416 Ruger w/Boddington.

You`ll also see Boddington shooting the Alaskan rifle too.

Ummmmmmmm OK Gentlemen! I have 2 model 70 Winchester .458 magnum rifles in our vault and 2 of those .416's as well, only one is a .416 Rem. mag model 70 Winchester and the other is a .416 Rigby.

Some of the tests I have run and others such as Mike La Grange tell me all I need to know about penetration. The .416 calibers simply will out penetrate those larger slugs in the .458 Win mag. Also if you really want to gain the power from using the .458 bullet, one must jump to the Lott or Watts to do so.

We all know the .458 magnum has the power edge over the .416 caliber but that is NOT the frigging question is it! Some one not long ago put pictures up of the elephant that was shot in the rearend and the .416 Rem mag bullet traveled 22 feet and was recovered in the one tusk of the animal. NO .458 mag bullet is going to do that for a fact, not even an Aussie 550 grain slug.

To outright claim that the 416 outpenetrates the 458 can be misleading unless you also compare bullets
Here are two bullets fired into the same stack of alternating wet and dry magazines. On the left is a 400 swift A-frame from a 404 Jeffery that was basically duplicating the 416 Rigby load at around 2300fps. It is resting on the page where it stopped.
On the right is a 500 gr Hornady soft fired from my 20" bbl 458 Win and was clocked at 2050 fps. The bullet out penetrated the 404 bullet by another 4" (20% farther) and you can see the damage it was doing during that time.



Considering the thousands of elephants and other big game that Mike LaGrange has shot his opinion is one to consider and in his book he says that when everything is considered the 458 Win is his favorite as there comes a time when the most important thing is shot placement and the 458 Win is enough for any animal under any conditions.

Also when Harry Selby decided sell his .416 Rigby he chose the standard 458 Win as a replacement- in a PF M-70!


My point is not that the .416 or .404 are bad. They are great rounds. So is the 458 Lott. But there are no flies on the standard 458 Win with modern ammo.

I have read LaGrange's book and conclusion and agree with both he and Phil. The comment about bullets is also relevant as I also saw the pic of that .416 bullet in the tusk and it was a solid so what is the surprise as there sure is no lesson here?

JW

A 404 Jeff and a 416 are two different calibers. While there is no doubt the 458 is the better stopper, the 400gr/416 will handily out penetrate the 2100 fps 458. Again as a stopper, the 458 wins hands down.

As to the buffalo hunt, I'd beg to take issue with my dear friend ET. The 375 first shot was not optimally placed and the second one did it's job. Also keeping in mind it was a soft point whilst the 45-110s were using hard lead bullets. Incidentally mine did indeed poleaxe the buffalo, but it was a shoulder/spine shot which incidentally was stopped by the spine. Had that been a solid (comparable more or less to the hard lead 45-110s) those bullets would still be going. A 540gr (or 483 in my case) 458@ 1350 just cannot keep up in penetration to a 500 gr stell jacketed solid out of a 458 @2100 much less a 416@ 2400.

Polska,
If you think $1000 is a lot of money for a rifle, wait until you find out what taxidermy for the African Big Five is going to set you back!
whelennut

Pentration depends on the bullet being used . At a Linebaugh seminar my 416 Rigby shootinging 410 rounds nose solids Federal Factory load at about 2386 FPSpenetrated 46" of wet pac. My 500 Linebaugh revolver shooting a hard cast WLFN flat ponit at 1091 FPS penetrated 50"

There are many many variable that dictate penetration

Penetration is but one factor in evaluating the performance of a round. The dia of the wound channel is also critical. A high velocity bullet is going to disrupt more tissue than a low velocity bullet, and once you get consistant exits, more penetration is not needed.

Years ago a sent some .475" 460 gr bullets to a guy who tested them at the Linebaugh seminar. He launched them out of a lowly 480 at a mere 1100 fps, and penetrated 38" of wet newsprint. I could conclude from that that a 480 is 83% as good as a 416 Rigby, and that your 500 linebaugh is 10% more powerful than a 416. But penetration isn't everything, and I don't hunt wet newsprint.

Penetration is not everything is correct. I was just show the fallicy of predicting penetration on velocity. The 475 Linebaugh, 500 JRH and Linebaugh will shoot through both shoulders of an QAsian Buffalo and exit on mature bull Bison. This I know because I have either done it or seen it done

That "research" has been around for some time. Take a look:

http://470mbogo.com/PenetrationComparison.html

Just proving my point, penetration predictions are not always supported by the tests

The bullets being used plays a huge factor. Hard Cast bullets are not the preferred bullet for penetrating an Elephants skull for instance, too much bone. Meplat and nose shape play a huge role in penetration, etc. Many variables

That's true. I wonder how long before someone tests Woodleigh's hydrostatically stabalized .45/70 bullet. I'd be curious to see how it stacks up with the heavy, wide meplat cast iron bullets. Sadly we are not allowed to use those Woodleighs on game up here, so it won't be me doing the testing!

Go to the Big Bore Forum on AR, Micheal458 has tested Woodliegh's and about everything else for that matter. The thread is titled Terminal Bullet Performance it is about 112 pages now and growing. Tons of info init

The 6.5 with the military solid like Bell used out pentrated every thing tested and #2 was the 9.3 with Woodliegh 320 grain solid.

my only basis for thinking the 416 will out penetrate the .458 is beause the bullet is slightly narrower than the .458

Awww,c'mon Jorge!! What I said was that the visible and immediate effects of the hits from the big 45's was devastating. The 375 killed nicely but our guns BOTH brought bufflers to their kneees from sheer impact. Bringing the performance levels to the big 45's of today such as the 458 Win Mag and the 458 Lott (including the 450 N.E) to compare to the 416's would likely show much heavier impacts and target effect. I would think the 416's are way more shootable than the big 45's though.

I don't know Jim. the first shot was not a good one and both of ours were placed right in the sweet spot. Had that 300gr pill hit the buff on the shoulder, the results would have been similar. Go here, on page 112 (yes 112!) complete with pictures. There is just no comparison:
PENETRATION TESTS



http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo276/michael458photos/DSC05373.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo276/michael458photos/DSC02953.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo276/michael458photos/DSC04585.jpg

http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo276/michael458photos/Bullet%20Album/DSC05854.jpg

While there is ZERO doubt the old Sharps will kill anything, they just can't compete with 1000 fps and modern solids.

jorge

Polska,

I built a very nice 416 Remington Magnum off an M70. I chopped it down and made it fairly light along the lines of Phil Shoemaker's light rifle. The barrel has a 375H&H contour and it has a lightweight stock, so it turned out very light for a 416. The balance is perfect and there is nothing sluggish in its handling. Using bread and butter Reloader 15 handloads, it works well on about anything you'd shoot with such cartridge. The rifle is well fit, and to me, the recoil is not too much over a stiff 375H&H.

I don't think I'd ever get rid of this rifle due to the work involved to get it where I wanted. But, if I felt the need to get another 416, I'd probably just grab an out of the box 416Ruger and be happy. I think I read a quote from Shoemaker where he wrote that there were probably more 416Rugers sold in the last couple years than all Rigbys sold in the last 100 years. Looking at sales figures, I tend to agree. With such a readily available rifle, you'd probably never have any issue obtaining ammo and/or reloads for many years to come. I've even read where Hornady is on a full court press to have their 375 and 416Ruger ammo readily available within Africa.

Reference needing stainless, I don't think that would give you a free ride if your rifle spends a lot of time in the bottom of a boat while exposed to salt water. No matter what you get, it'll probably end up ugly over the long haul being hosed down with spray paint and/or coated with some sort of teflon or black t, etc. I'd not let chrome moly become a deal breaker. Some of the stainless steels used can degrade pretty quick when continually exposed to salt water.

In reality though, outside professional use or maybe for someone who routinely kills the current "big 5", there is probably zero need for any of those cartridges for a hunting rifle used otherwise. For someone who is a mere short term visitor in a far away land, where the responsibilities of stopping game under an emergency situation falls squarely on the shoulders of an experienced professional guide; I'd worry more about doing your part as a hunter by placing an accurate shot with a recommended cartridge, and I'd leave the professional with the stopping rifle.

Best:)

A good read


http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/Harry-Selby-Rifles/

You confirmed my thoughts, thanks bro... nice to see some other people with common sense in this world haha. Your right, i'll leave the stopping to my partners or the guide. But i'm sure a .416 ruger is plenty to stop anything on the planet... some guys says the bullet is smaller, but that made actually be better because although it doesn't leave as big a hole as a .458 or a 50 caliber rifle, it can penetrate deeper which levels it out

And more on page 114:
PENETRATION TESTS

Referencing the link above:
Jorge

You are 100% correct and spot on. In reality in the field, a cast bullet really cannot do the work of most any solid. The limiting factor is construction on this as I see it. While a good cast bullet will do a good job on critters, it in no way can compare with the construction of any FMJ or Solid. I have never worried with a cast bullet on the T'Rex test, I figure little point in that, but that one thing alone I am 100% sure would prove your point.

In the normal test medium the nose profile will take effect, a round nose solid just will not do, and even a cast in many cases may out penetrate those. But, if we move to nearly any sort of flat nose with a decent meplat and radius, then it's game over for the cast. This may be where some of your guys have picked up that the cast is better, and it's really a "false/Positive" effect, and a way that a cast bullet person can justify the position. Right or wrong. But there are many factors that come into play.

There is really no comparison...jorge

Jorge-1, while pictures of bullets on paper and so called written results might seem great to readers, the proof in in the tasting of the pudding.

So until I see the penetration test or said pictures of the test, this other stuff posted in purely speculation as far as penetration goes. This is why I do my own penetration tests on my rifle's and various calibers prior any hunt.

Suit yourself, those tests have been validated through and through by more that one individual. jorge

Nothing wrong with those tests. The test are also followed up with and correlated to field results

I wonder how many people besides Harry Selby have worn out a .416 barrel? That must take a lot of shooting!
whelennut

He used that rifle as a professional hunter for decades. The most interesting part of that article to me was the part where Harry stated that he intended fro the 416 to simply be a stop gap measure until he could acquire another 470. After using the 416 and experiencing its performance he never felt the need to get another 470

Yest but he story gets more interesting when you consider he used a model 70 push feed .458 for a stop gap when the .416 was bei8ng rebarreled and like it so much he sold the .416 and kept using the .458.

It is ok to be happy where you are but that doesn't mean you are as satisfied as you can be. When you start backtracking your preferences, that is when you are on the mark. Ultimately, as a seasoned professional, Harry could use what ever he wanted and in the end, the .458 was it.

JW

Harry never claimed the 458 to be better than his 416, but the money offered for the 416 was to good to pass up and I would have done the same same

Harry has PM'd a friend of his on AR to post the story of his 416 when a question about it arose. Harry said that the 416 had all of the stopping power one could ever need and was flat enough for 300 yards shots on fleeing game wounded by clients

No fly's on the 416 at all





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BaxterB
one of us

Posted Aug 25, 8:58 AM Hide Post
In response to the many questions raised by Harry's first response to this post, I culled out as many questions as I could from the text, added a few that I thought might come up on a second round and Harry was gracious enough to answer them (plus others) in a final post about this, in what I consider great detail.

As you will see, he spent an awful lot of time clearing up things in regards to this rifle and has settled the 'controversy' over Rigby's turn-around time in regards to the work they did on his 416.

We all owe Harry a debt of gratitude for taking the time to respond. Thanks Harry!

Once again, Harry Selby....



"I did err is stating that the accident to the .470 happened in 1950/51....
just a slip up... after all we are talking about sixty years ago.... it
should have read 1949/50 I think. I took Bob and Harriet Maytag and Bob and
Ginny Ruark in 1951....using the Rigby .416. In the latter part of that year
I went to the States and eventually Kodiak Island where I shot a Kodiak
bear.

Rigby was in no way to blame for the delay in getting the .416 Rigby back to
me.... they accomplished the job... rebarreling (barrel from Austria) and a
complete stock refurbish in good time. (by that time there was no blueing
left on the metalparts and the stock finish was all gone) (See Pic of three
Selby Rifles)


When Rigby's tried to ship the rifle back to me a woman in the government
department responsible to imports / exports blankly refused to issue an
export permit as the rifle would pass through South Africa and there was
an embargo on all arms to SA at that time...
Telling her that it was destined for Botswana cut no ice (I am sure she was
just plain 'Anti Hunting') (I even produced a letter from the Botswana
police to the effect that the rifle was registered in Botswana.... no luck)

Eventually Paul Roberts went over her head to the minister and got the
export permit sorted out. It did not take three years as has been
claimed..

I am not left handed... I do everything right handed except that I shoot
from my left shoulder...maybe my left eye is the 'master eye'.
Cycling the bolt was no big deal, I merely lowered the stock slightly,
gripping the pistol grip with my left hand and with my right hand worked the
bolt.... fast enough... in any case I prefer one or two precisely aimed
shot to a fusilade of random rapid fire

I have always thought of the magazine held four cartridges... maybe my
memory played tricks on me!!! but when Rigby did the work on the rifle they
replaced the original magazine follower which was much shorter than the box with a
full length one....It was more robust and heavier as well...I think it came from
a Brno 602 action.... maybe this prevented Layne Simpson closing the bolt
over four cartridges.
Maybe I also realised this when the rifle came back from Rigby'
but have forgotten about it.
I will refer this to a gunsmith friend of mine for his opinion.

The inscription on the mag. plate was done by Rigby at that time of
re-barreling and the date 1949 was either the date the rifle was despatched
or perhaps the date it was entered on my Firearms Certificate in Nairobi.
I seem to recollect that Paul Roberts said he would use the date it left
Rigby's.

The .458 did me well enough but to even suggest that I had become attached
to it and sold the Rigby .416 as a result is laughable... it is
like comparing chalk and cheese.
I sold the Rigby .416 as I was approaching the time I would plan to retire
and the Rigby was offered a very good home by a client and his wife with
whom I had been on safari a number of times and had become close personal
friends.
I preferred to do it that way rather than have the possibility of the rifle
winding up under some auctioneer's hammer one day!!!!
I have done the same with some of my other rifles.... sold them to old
clients who have become close friends over the years.Movement of firearms is becoming more restrictive in most parts of Africa
and I preferred to see my precious rifles in good homes elsewhere.
It took a whole year to get an 'in-transit permit' for another rifle of mine to
pass through South Africa a while back.(less than 12 hours in SA)

If I remember correctly the rifle was sent to Rigby's sometime in the early
eighty's and I immediately began using the Rigby as soon as it came back.
One of the safaris I did with it was John Wootters '.416 Safari' in
1987.. John Wootters, Jack Carter (of Trophy Bonded bullets) and Paul
Roberts of Rigby's were testing Jack's TB ammo. on Buffalo. We had in camp
two Rigby .416s... Pauls's and mine. one .416 Hoffman (Jack's) and John
Wootters' .416 Taylor. (Petersen's Hunting August 1988 by Wootters.)

I also took the Rigby to Tanzania ( Maswa, Moiowase, Ugalla, Monduli)
for a four week safari with TGTS later (I forget the year ) and due to the
chaotic customs handling of rifles at the Nairobi Airport lost it for over a
month...eventually it turned up in Maun ...intact.... fortunately.

Incidentally as soon as.416 bullets became available I had no further ammo
worries.... I was getting fairly low until that happened though.
By turning the belts off ..460 and .378 Weatherby cases, resizing them
carefully and then fire forming. ....they worked well enough.

When factory loaded Rigby 416 ammo became available I usually chose
Federal although I used mainly hand loads.
Remember a PH does not use a lot of ammo.... hopefully..... so a couple of
boxes lasted a while.

I just like the feel of a broad trigger and by adding the shoe suited me
well..
I did the same to some of my other rifles. I never used a sling. it can get
one entangled in the bush. I carry a rifle over my right shoulder gripping
the barrel in my right hand.

I estimate that over a fifty five year career I have used .470s for four
years and a .458 for maybe six to eight years.
The Rigby .416 was always my weapon of choice and if I was to start
a hunting career all over again the first rifle I would acquire would be a
Rigby .416.P.S. Layne Simpson's article described the rifle well but it contained many
inaccuracies which I am sure did not originate with Joe Coogan...
he would have known better.
I did not start my career with Ker & Downey Safaris. I started with
Percival and 'African Guides"
Donald Ker was using a Dodge Power Wagon not a Land Rover when he ran
over my .470.
I did not rush back to Nairobi for another rifle, the safari was
just about over anyway and on its way back to Nairobi.
Gunbearer Kidogo was recommended to Ruark not by Hemingway but by an
American by the name of Russel Aitkin who had hunted with Frank Bowman.
Layne also claimed that I never used the rifle again after its return to
Botswana
NOT SO I used it for a number of years. He mentions the bluing worn off the
barrel.....that wear took place after it came back to Botswana chasing buffalo and
tracking lions.
P.P.S.
To conclude I might mention that after I had used to Rigby .416 for a couple
of years and came to appreciate its qualities I decided to do something about the
dimensions of the stock to suit my desire for a very powerful but handy rifle
for my purpose as a professional hunter.

To me the stock was a bit bulky, especially in the forend area and pistol grip
(I really like a slender pistol grip).
Being handy with tools I very carefully shaved the stock down in the areas I
considered 'bulky' until I came up with what I considered just right for me.
The recoil was lively but I could not give a fig about that... I wanted a very
powerful rifle I could swing like a twenty gauge. So infact the stock dimensions
of this rifle probably differ from any rifles coming direct from the Rigby shop.

Naturally all chequering was removed and not having the skill or the tools
to re-chequer I merely gave the carefully sanded and filled surface a good oil finish
The stock remained thus for a number of years ... (see pic of Selbys rifles on safari)
until I moved south and an excellent gunsmith in South Africa rechequered the stock
for me.

When Rigby worked on the rifle, they cleaned up the chequering again and worked
on the overall stock finish in addition to a complete re-bluing job.

I apologise for the rather lengthy response hopefully covering all queries.... in-fact I feel rather like a baboon being debugged by the rest of the troop."

PICS
Harry's rifles on safari left to right .Rigby .416 (notice lack of checkering on stock -bb) , Win mod.70 .375 H&H (stock Westley Richards)
Win. 243 Stock Hal Hartley. Brno .22 long rifle (stock worked on by Selby)
Wootters safari hunting buffalo with Jack Carter ( Selby carrying .Rigby .416)

jwp: Good post...very good reading

416's seem like good balance of power, penetration, and recoil. the .375 below it, is flat shooting and good for dangerous game, but lacks the stopping power of it's larger cousins the .458 lott, .505 gibbs etc. The 416 has slightly more stopping power than the 375, but not as brutal recoil as the lott, which is good because it lets you get a better follow up shots faster. IT's a good middle ground.. which is why I will buy the ruger alaskan in .416 ruger. 20" barrel, stainless/synthetic, can't beat it for real world hunting

And you are spot on. The 416 can even shoot almost as flat as a 375 and it has great penetration as well. Another big time elephant hunter and PH, Tony Sanchez Arino also used a 416 extensively. For a client it is THE ideal DG cartridge from lion to elephant. jorge

I'm sure it has some stopping power too, without the severe jump of the .458 lott or bigger guns. I wonder which penetrates better the lott or the rigby

I think the Rigby but if you go to the links I posted you can find the penetration tests on just about any caliber you want.

All depends on what you is goin to kill...Both calibers you mention are good stoppers.

IMO If it can eat you, stomp you in the ground, or a combination of both you want the biggest caliber you can shoot well under stress. For me my Ruger Safari Magnum 458 Lott would be the choice.

Regards

Both calibers have their merits. The .458 can be loaded with 400gr bullets and give the same ballistics as the .416! I've used my model 70 .458 for 16 years as an african PH and have shot everything from impala and jackals to Buff and Elephant with it without a hitch. Don't sweat about choosing either one...they both have enough 'knockdown' power. But nothing beats a well placed shot so get the one you can handle best and quickest!

Do I detect apoplexy and convulsions within the readership??

Dhugaboy,
Welcome to the fire. I fully concur with your review.

John