Hey guys i'm just wondering what your thoughts are on this cartridge for black bears over bait? Shot would be at maximum 60 yards. I just want something that leaves big holes. Thanks

It might work....

All kidding aside it should do just fine, it has been doing pretty decent work for a while.

I loaded up some 300 grain Nosler partitions on top of H335 to use on an Ontario bear hunt a few years back, but took my 35 Whelen instead.

I did see a pretty fat UP black bear that had been shot with a Remington 405 gr. factory load out of an 1886, one shot lung to shoulder, not much tracking up was required...getting that fat bugger out to the two track was where the work came in...

I'd use a 45-70 for blackies if I was to ever hunt them again, I think I get a bigger charge out of watching them than eating them.

Thanks for the advice. I have to agree when you say watching them is great, it sure gets the adrenaline going that's for sure. I watched the one I took last weekend for 25 minutes before I decided to take him.

A .45-70 Marlin worked on a black bear for me, but it is more than you need. Nothing wrong with that, but it is true.

I've taken a bison and two moose with the 45-70 and buffalo bore cartridges. Never taken more than one shot on each. The bison was 150yds and the two moose were both within 75yds.

The 45/70 was one of the original buffalo stompers. 500 grain bullet at 18:1 and blackpowder. Black bears ain't bigger or tougher.

be plenty enough oomph over bait or no bait, sure will leave an obvious hole too. I've used either Kodiak 350's and hardcast in mine yrs. back....sold it, blasted porting was gonna due me in.

I've used the .45-70 on bears for many years... nothing better in my view. I've used both single-shots and Marlins, ALWAYS with handloads.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I agree that you would have a hard time finding a better cartridge for short range black bear than a .45/70. The only caveat I would add, however, is to avoid the typical 300 gr. JHP "deer" bullets. I shot a doe with a hot loaded 300 JHP out of a Ruger #1 and the bullet fragmented on impact and only penetrated about 4 inches.

The bullets I have personal experience with that would be great choices include the 350 gr. Hornady, 400 Gr. Speer and 405 gr. Remington JSP's.

The Remington 405 grain factory loads or similar reloads will do fine.

Black Bears and bigger!

The 45-70 will knock the stuffins out of any black bear you shoot at, within range. It's a great cartridge.


maddog

I would not reccomend the 300gr hollow pnt for bear. I used it once in my Ruger# 3 loaded full tilt on a big fall fat black bear, at about 20 feet over a bait, it blew up on interring and the fat sealed up the wound. Lucky I had set up a Horndy 350grn round nose for the second shot. Seirra does not reccomend there 300grn HP even for hunting!
Bob

my uncle has used a 45/70 marlin loaded with either SPEER 400 grain or REMINGTON 405 grain bullets over 45 grains of H4198, in a his carbine for at least the last 20 years and its killed a dozen bears in that time in similar conditions to what your describing

You could do worst.

A 45-70 for black bear? In a heartbeat. A 400 to 500 grain cast bullet at 1250 fps will blow through him at any angle and leave a big hole coming out.

One of if not THE best caliber choice, IMO.

It's a awesome combo for such work!

Dober

Thank you everyone for your replies. I just bought the Marlin 1895G 45-70 and I cant wait for fall bear season to start so I can try it out on a bruin.

One exception to that rule would be the Speer UniCor. Other than that, I would agree with you.

My "bear" load is a 425 BB Piledriver at 1650 fps. Low pressure, accurate, and that bullet at that velocity will fully penetrate even large black bear.

I've used the 405gr Rem bullet handloaded to about factory specs. to take both black bear and elk. It works fine. Don't expect to find the bullet still in the bear at that kind of range, but it will work just fine.

What about loading that new Barnes 400 grain solid flat point? Seems like a 45 caliber doesn't need to expand any more and that bullet ought to really penetrate. Would that be legal? Or are all solids illegal in the US?

This truly bamboozles me. The 45 caliber rifles using bullets from 405 grains and up CAST at 30:1 going anywhere between 1250 and 1400 fps penetrate like cannon shells and expand well besides. Besides which they will be very accurate at genuinely extended ranges. No need to beat yourself half to death with recoil. Very easy on the guns too.

I've killed two with a 45 ACP and 6 with a 243, I think your 45/70 will be more than adequate ...

Sharpsguy and EvilTwin have the recipe. I have got 6 feet of penetration with 500 gr cast 70 gr Goex by volume. There is no need for more. Do not llisten to the nay sayers about it being a short range load. Know your trajectory, It will go where you send it and you can eat right up to the whole.

Randy

From talking to a person who has used it to take several elk with different style bullets it, according to him, would be a good idea to use a bullet with a farely large meplat if using lead. He has tried round nose and doesn't get the preformance as far as internal damage or shot reaction as he gets from the flatnose bullets.

He loads 30:1 at about 1300 fps.

Domhnall: Game laws vary from state to state, but typically solid hunting bullets are not illegal to use. Non-hunting designs like FMJ often are. These laws are often a hold over from the post WWII period that had a lot of new hunters and FMJ ammo about.

Yep, I bought a Marlin 45/70 for the exact purpose of hunting black bear in Canada a few years back. Which I did and it worked most effectively on the smallish blackie with CorBon shells. Since then I've handrolled cast 405 grainers and would use them the next time out.

In my 45-90 I use the 405 Remington, in my 45-70 I use a 350 gr hard cast. I really think that there few animals in North America that can't be killed effectively with either cartridge, or either bullet.

It's about ideal. Used it with 405 and 350 hardcast with big meplats and it smacks the hell out of them. No need to hot rod the hell out of it either unless you dig the punishment. Start trying to run stuff up and over the 2300fps mark and you'll understand what I'm talking about. Works nicely at 2000 fps and less.

But probably not gooder.

I don't want to "jack" your post, but I have the same question but with an addition to the question:

Has anyone had any experience with the Hornady Leverevolution 325 gr rounds? Are they sufficient for black bears?

I have used three boxes of them so far. They are accurate and should do just fine. I was clover leafing three round groups at 100yds out or my #1. I had only one bad experience but it was my own fault for putting the bullet a little far back on a doe. Ended up tracking a little far with minimal blood. The brass is a wee bit short in comparison to Rem or WW but no big deal.

brinky72...appreciate the feedback on the accuracy of the Leverevolutions, I too had good success with the accuracy.

But I'm interested in know if anyone has used them on black bears and if so how did they perform? I'm thinking of a balck bear hunt or hunts this year with my 1895G, but have only shot the Leverevolutions out of it.

I hunt the Northeastern swamps of NC. Our bears average 300 pounds or so mature, but 500 pounders are taken around those parts yearly.

A friend over in Arkansas has been knockin' BIG holes in black bears for dang near 20 yrs. w/ the 45-70 and 350 gn. Hornady round nose SP, a few years back he switched to the Horn. 350 gn. mag kinda like a round flat point w/ the same results.
And if You handload You can do alot worse than RL-7 for powder, he loafs his out @around 2000 fps from an old Marlin lever action.

Gunner

I loaded a 440 grain hard cast to 1875 FPS in my Guide Gun with 44.5 gr of Reloder 7. I carried it in Alaska gfor Grizzly, but never got a shot at one with it. I did shoot into a riverbank and the bullet penetrated well over 12" into hard packed wet sand. can't see it not doing the job on a black bear.

I hand load only for my Guide Gun, and it has been awhile since I checked on prices and availability. PMC used to offer a 350gr load that would do about 1800fps from a Guide Gun - don't know if they still do. Remington's green/yellow box fodder pushes the 405gr JSP to a little over 1100fps from a 18.5" GG barrel. Then there is Hornady.

If you decide to reload, you'll find the Remington 405gr JSP a lot cheaper than other .458" bullets. You don't need a premium bullet with the 45-70. I run the 405gr Rem at 1800fps from my Guide Gun, and that is probably faster than necessary. I don't hunt bear, but I can tell you that it puts Elk down just fine. It is fun to make a big hole

I've never shot or hunted black bear. I have shot a bunch of farel hogs with my 45-70. I hand load 405 grain hardcast lead
to 1600fps. Have taken several hogs in the 350-400lb range at close to 100 yards. Never takes more than one shot through the front end. Never found a slug. All pass-thru shots.Pound for pound I can't imagine black bear being any harder to kill than an old wild hog. But I could be wrong about that. People hunt bear with bows all the time. If you can kill it with a bow, a 45-70 should have no problem doing the same.

Rabbitdog

agree with the recommendations so far. I use a 300gr hardcast @ 2000fps, and it blows through both ends of everything while still shooting flat enough to take a shot at 200 yds...where it will still blow through both sides of everything.

Well picked up my new Marlin 1895G and cant wait to get it out to the range. Thanks everyone for the helpful information about this cartridge.



The dish kinda ruins the photo I know.

My go to load for my GG has been H4198 and the 300 gr. nosler partition bullet. I've used it to take bear, hogs, and 7 head of african plains game. Penetration has always been awesome, and of all the animals I've taken with it, I've only recovered 4 bullets. Three were from my zebra in RSA[long story] and one from my kudu. Everything else has been complete pass throughs.


maddog

I will say it once more. There is no need to hot rod this old workhorse. 1250-1300 ft/sec with a 30:1 hard cast 500 or more gr bullet will penetrate beyond your wildest expectations. I have shot a lot of big blackies in Canada and have never found it wanting. Best penetration comes with the original velocities by the way.

Randy

My bear load was with a 300g JSP speer bullet loaded to 1800 FPS in my Marlin 95 I had in the 70s. Took 3 with it when I lived in CA and thought it was the best bear gun around.

Barnes accuracy load with their 250 TSX FN, 53.5 gr. Vit. N120 at 2,553 fps. That's from a 24" bbl. and recommended for the 1895 Marlin.

I shoot it in a 30" Browning BPCR 45-70 with a Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 CDS for Primitive weapon system. It's dialed in for 300 yds. and shoots 1" groups at a hundred. It'll put all rounds on a pie plate at 300, probably around 5" or so.

Bad load on hogs. Haven't shot a deer with it yet.

DF

Getting back to your initial question: As you can see, the overwhelming opinion is, yes the 45/70 will work just fine on bears over bait. IMHO, you don't need anything more than the factory 405gr. Rem. for your intended use. Yes, you can reload and get MUCH better velocity and power and there are special factory loadings that will get you there as well, but you just don't need them for your intended purpose. The factory load will kill EVERY black bear just as dead just as well. It has been doing it for much longer than we all have been alive and will continue to do it when our grandkids grandkids are using it.

Spot on. Our own Sharpsguy who arguably has more trigger time with this round in it's black powder format than anybody, has shot clean through a bull bison and a host of African game with a similar bullet although I think his are 20:1 and 475grs. I used the same bullet out of a 110 (1330 fps) to knock a bison DRT.

I consider Sharpsguy the epitome of expert. I wonder how many tons of lead he has sent downrange, and for which he has kept records. That 45/110 of yours is a fine rifle, and you know how to make it shine as well/

Randy

Thanks, Doc. Regarding Sharpsguy, I'd conservatively estimate he's sent close to a quarter million rounds down range!

I shot a 6' 4" boar black bear with a 270 at 40 yards over a bait once, swore I would never shoot another over a bait with a rifle again as it was too easy. So i'd say the 45-70 is way more than enough to put down even the biggest black bear at 60 yards as long as you put the bullet where it needs to be.

Well I took my 45-70 to the range last night for the first time and fired some federal fuion 300gr. Took me a couple shot's to get a feel for the gun. Here's my 3 shot group in the bull before I decided to come home. I have to say I'm very happy with the result and cant wait to get out hunting.


Hopefully I can break the 45-70 in on this guy.

quackbang

He looks like a nice bear. nice pelt and some good eating there.

Randy

well i personally would want a bigger gun, i mean up here in new yaaaaaawk black bears weight 2000lbs are coverd in kevlar coated chain mail and have bad attitudes, i really think you should look into some old world war 2 bofor's anti aircraft weapons because only real men who can handle the recoil of a 30mm bofor should be allowed in teh woods...


Signed...

Polska.


:-D just figured id stop in and write his response for him before the idiot did it himself haha

Heading out, Thursday in NH with a karg re done to 45/70 loaded with 38 grains of re7 pushing a 325gr hornadys doing 1600fps that should getr done

A little off topic. I have an Encore barrel in 45-70 on it's way for bear and back up deer. If I cast my own bullets can I cast them with pure lead or do I have to mix 30:1? I want to cast my own. Do I need to lube the groves on the bullet?

Slug your barrel for size, then size and lube bullet to land diameter. 30:1 or 20:1 lead/tin alloy work very well if you aren't gonna push it much over 1300.

Let's see some pics of these dead black bears that have been killed with the 45-70s.

Thats mighty fine shooting there mate . What , if any scope are you using ?
Regards.