I have both the Winchester 95 and Ruger #1. Have only loaded the 300 grain Hornady soft points so far but do have some of the 300 grain Hornady spitzers, Barnes 300 grain X-Bullets and a some beautiful 400 grain bullets from a custom maker.

Was wondering who shoots what and have you taken any game...what rifle, what distance and what load....

Thanks,

Bob

I shoot a new model 95 . I've found with the Hornday sp bullets they need to be seated to kiss the lands in my rifle for accuracy to amount to anything. I killed a bull elk this year with that bullet and 60 grs of Rx 15, 151 yds.
The Hornady fp bullet shoots pretty well in my gun seated to the cannelure. If you want a low recoil super accurate load with that bullet try 35 grs of H4895.
The best load in my gun so far has been 57 grs of Rx 12 and Northforks 300 gr .411 ss. It groups into an inch at 100 , clocks at 2350 and recovered bullets from last years elk weighed 298 grs. Range was about 100 yds.
Still haven't found a cast bullet that is anything to brag about.

Have you tried any of the .41 Magnum pistol bullets for plinking. Some of the companies make a .41 bullet that they will size .411-.412. One design is from LBT the other the old SSK meant for the .411 JDJ. Speialty Pistol Gear sells the LBT over on AuctionArms.com and Penn Bullets sells the SSK.

That is great shooting on the elk. How far did they go after they were hit?

Bob

I did shoot some 265 gr gc swc from Leadheads in it. Haven't tried any of the 41 pistol bullets, as most of what I shoot thru the 41 are cast.
Last year's bull went quite aways after the first shot it was low and went thru the muscle on the near side just skimmed the bottom of his rib cage, and broke the far leg. Second shot took him in the shoulder and he went about 25 yds. I later found that the Type 38 sight had gotten slid down , so instead of shooting 2 inches high at 100 it was printing 3 inches low.
This year the first shot went thru the both shoulders and was just under the hide on the far side. I took another poke at him while he was stumbling around and broke his front leg, then he stood behind a juniper tree for a bit and when he stuck his head out from behind that the 3rd shot broke his neck. All told it took just a few moments and he didn't go over 25 yds from the first hit. Internal damage to meat and bone was pretty drastic, both lungs had a big bloody hole thru them, but not jellied up like when shot with something with more speed.

Have you thought about putting a Williams or Lyman peep sight on the M95. That is what I would like to do. It uses the same base as the one for the 1886 Winchester but someone told me that because of the width of the receiver one had to get a wider slide...

I also had my smith put the smallest Pachmayer Decellerator pad on. The butt didn't have to be shortened and I can put the original steel pad right back on.

If you punch in .405 Winchester over on AuctionArms some 350 grain cast bullets come up. Also under 41 magnum some 300 grain ones come up both under Bullet Man Dan.


Bob

RJM,

I've owned a new "95" Takedown for a month or so and it shoots great with the Hornady 300's. Haven't started loading for it yet or taken any game with it yet.....YET. My rifle came drilled and tapped for the Williams sight and thats what it wears. Love it. And you don't need a wider slide if your gun is the same as mine.

I have an original 95 in .405 but I haven't gotten around to shooting it, yet. So your comments on the .405 in the field are of great interest to me.

However, I am also planning on purchasing one of the new takedown models and I was planning on fitting one of the Ukranian Type 38 sights (from Buffalo Arms) but the comment that the slide slipped down during an elk hunt makes me wonder if this is a problem with this style of sight or was this just a one-of type problem?

Rugernut...it is too bad that they didn't drill and tap all of them from the beginning...glad to hear yours is shooting fine.

Bob

I'm shooting one of the new Winchester 95s The buckhorn sight is not worth a toot, so I found an old Redfield recieveer sight that works great and while the gunsmith was at it, I had 3/4 thick recoil pad installed.
I found that the Hornady 300 grain bullets do fine with IMR 3031. A note keep an eye out for the Hornady blem sale at MidSouth, you can buy 500 or 1,000 bullets for about the same cost as two boxes of factory ammo.
I bought this rifle with the idea of it being a cast bullet gun, exclusively. I had Mountain molds make me a delightful 350 grain gas checked bullet mold.
I use the same loads that I found online for the 400 grain jacketed bullet again IMR 3031 powder.
This cast bullet has gone to Africa, unfortunately not with me, with good results. A fellow in Sweden used it one some of their Elk, out Moose, with good results. Again not with me. When you put a bullet through four or five feet of critter, break a bone or two on the way through it's a good bullet!
Jim

Just got back from a trip to the BlackHills to see if the 405 would work on deer, unfortunately I won't know the answer to that until next year. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Did kill a nice scrub birch tree that was in front of the deer tho.
If I were to do this sight thing over again I would either go with the williams FP71, or stick with the one ragged hole sight I installed on it while waiting for the 38 sight from Buffalo Arms.
I've seen and bought several cast bullets supposedly for the 405 most have gas checks ( something I'ld just as soon not have) but most are sized just a tad small.

Ranch
Sorry about that scrub sacrificing itself to save the deer.
Curious as to why the adversion to gas checks?
I, too, have not found any commercial cast bullets for the 405. The diameter that I came up with .413, which none of the sizer campanies make make sizing dies this diameter. Had a fellow hone out a .410 die to .413 and make a new ejector stem. (Stillwell Tool and Die)
I took a look at the reproduction of the Lyman #38 reciever sight and was duely unimpressed. Sort of looks like some one hung a pump handle on the side of the rifle.
Redfield made a real nice solid steel reciever sight, that can still be found, new in the box.
Jim

Pete just don't care for gas checks, just an added step and expense, that doesn't accomplish anything that a plain base with proper lube grooves and size dia won't accomplish. I've been messing with some of the 40 cal CSA bullets from RCBS molds from a commercial caster, and they do show some promise. Also Lyman has told Buffalo Arms they'll be making the original mold for the 405 , but as of yet haven't done so.
That 38 sight is a well built peice of equipment.

Ranch
I've never attempted it, because I didn't know it could be done. You can get close to 2,000 fps with a hard cast plain base bullet.
NEI had a 350 grain 40 caliber bullet on Ebay, plain based that I skipped over, because it was not gas checked. Now I wish I had bought it.
Please expand on your lube and grease groove ideas for the 40 caliber. I currently use LBT Blue and Rooster Red HVR, with no leading for all caliber.
I did not wish to imply that the Lyman 38 sight was not a quality product, I just didn't like how big it was. It was a matter of how it looked on the rifle.
Jim

I like at least 3 lube grooves, and good bit of lead between the base and the first groove. For lubes I use mostly SPG and liquid alox. Also panlubing or finger lubing and sizing thru the lee size dies work better for me. I do have some old Ideal Alox sticks that work pretty well, but its getting somewhat dried out with age.
The 38 sight really isn't as obtrusive as one of the more common receiver sights. It is a pain to build the metric screw for the front on these new made Winchesters.

Is this in relation to fitting up the Type 38 sight? What exactly are we talking about here?

Bob the new 95's are Miroku manufacture , so they use metric threads. The type 38 sight from Buffalo Arms is Ukraine made but for whatever reason come with SAE threaded screws. To mount the 38 sights you can drill and tap the rear hole for the 10x32, but you need to manufacture the front screw to fit the 4.5x5 metric threads.
Seems sort of silly to me that for the price of these 38 sights they couldn't just throw in a metric screw, after all they are European made and I imagine finding the right thread cutter there isn't near the problem it is here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the info and that now complicates my plan. Because Winchester Australia won't bring the .405s into the country, I am planning on purchasing one in the states (via the internet or one of the auction sites) and having it shipped to a friend of mine in Michigan. Then purchasing a Type 38 and getting it shipped to the same address and then asking my friend to drop it off to a gunsmith to get the sight fitted prior to me arriving for a hunt. I was then going to hunt with the outfit and then bring it back home to Oz. So I guess that I will need to make sure that I find a gunsmith who can cut the metric thread.

Bob one other thing (just to help muddy the water) You might consider one of the new take downs in 405, as I understand it they are drilled and tapped to accept the Williams FP71 receiver sight.

I shot two deer last year with Hornady 300 SPs, they started out at 2200 and at 80 yards, they are a bit desrtuctive. One almost recovered to his feet. Ran sideways for about 20 feet, then droped, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> the second one droped at the shot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> [bullet slightly fragmented] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Yes, that is exactly what I was planning on buying, although I didn't know that they were drilled and tapped. However, I did like the idea of a Type 38 as I think that they 'look right' on a classic rifle.

Bob the 38 sight does look right on the 95.

I've shot two Alaskan bull moose with my vintage 1895 .405 rifle in the 1990s. The first nearly got me killed. I shot that 59 " bull while he was bedded down about 15 yards away. He rolled his head to the side like he was dying and then sprang to his feet as spryly as a whitetail deer and charged me. I hastily backed up and hit him somewhere (I saw hair fly) with a shot from the hip. By dumb luck, I fell backward over a bush. The bull ran over my outstretched legs, never touching me. He stood out on the open tundra while I pumped 7 more rounds into his chest and neck from both sides. Upon cleaning the beast, his chest cavity was one gelatinous mess. I chalked it up to the moose's increased adrenaline at being surprised at close range.

A friend of mine used my rifle to shoot a 61" bull a week later. The moose was standing broadside at about 90-100 yards. The first shot knocked him down. Five or six more at point blank range were required to finish the job, but still he lingered too long. All shots were into his right chest cavity. The butchering process revealed that all of the bullets failed to penetrate beyond the first lung. They were fragmenting like shotshells after piercing the hide. The bullets were 300 gr. DKT brand loaded over IMR 3031. Those bullets were dubbed widow makers.

Well now I had to establish that rifle's worthiness. I handloaded a 300 gr. Hawk bullet and shot a 57" bull the following season. One shot broadside through the chest at 80 yards put that bull down hard and for good. The bullet was found beautifully mushroomed on the inside of the far hide.

I have not used that rifle since Winchester reintroduced the the model 1895 chambered in .405 and Hornady offered ammo and bullets for it. I don't know how the Hornady bullets would hold up to moose or bears. After my experience with the DKT bullets, my eyes have been opened as to the importance of bullet construction. I have shot two 60+" bulls and a large grizzly boar with 355 gr. cast GC bullets in my 45-90 at about 1900 fps. The results of that combination on large game are truly impressive.

Anybody want to buy my stash of .405 DKT bullets?

I have also been shooting Hawk 300 grain, mine have the .035 jacket. They blast right on thru a deer with no problem and very little damage. I tried some with the .025 jacket, and they didn't group well, I have not needed the .049 thick jacket, yet!
What jacket thickness are you using?

You guys looking for a good bullet for the 405 really need to give the .411 ss from Northfork a try.

I used the .035" jacketed Hawk bullet with good success on my moose. I will look into the Northfork bullet once my Hawks are gone. Those DKTs are only good for target practice or small varmints.

Gents
I must be real cheap or you guys have one heck of a lot of money to throw down range. Those North Fork .411 bullets cost one dollar each.
Thanks but no thanks I'll keep shooting my home made bullets.
Jim

Jim they are pricey. The first box I bought I used less than 20 for load developement. Used another 10 hunting and still have 20 of that load for hunting.
I do have another box hanging around just incase I want to try another load.
Mostly I shoot Hornady's for jacketed practice, and cast for blasting fun.

Hey guys I shoot an original 405 which we know as the famed 40-70 Sharps Straight. Seriously, there are quite a few bullet moulds out there that are supposedly cut for our .408 bores that actually drop bullets that are .412-.413 from the mould. One is a RCBS 350 CSA mould I have that drops .412.

I am betting some looking around would find some good bullets for those 405's out of the production stuff out there. If not, just call Paul Jones or Steve Brooks and have them cut whatever diameters you need.

SS

Ranch
Does any of the small jacketed bullet makers make a 350 grain bullet?
Jim

JIm I couldn't say for sure. I believe at one time Barnes made an x bullet in .411 at 350.
Sharpshooter I've been shooting some bullets cast from the RCBS CSA molds in all 3 weights. So far they haven't given me any leading problems , but haven't been able to get any accuracy that's much to get excited about.

My Brother in-law(oldest sister's husband) passed away earlier this year and while talking to my sister last night she told me she was bringing his rifles, ahotguns, handguns with her when she comes down for Christmas and giving them to me. None of her kids want them and she doesn't want them around the house anymore. Two of the rifles are original Win. M95's in .30-06 and .405. All of his firearms are in excellent shape but is modern ammo for the .405 safe to shoot in this older M95? Lawdog
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

As the Hornady300 gr factory ammo is loaded to 2200 fps just like the original stuff, I'ld guess if your rifle is in good shape it will be fine. Rick Jamison, and Mike Venturino have both done a couple of articles on the 405 shooting original and new rifles with the Hornady ammo.

Contact Shell Reloading, Bob Shell at 480-983-7078 or Rel4350@aol.com

I have some of his 400 grain jacketed round nose bullets for the .405 Winchester that I plan to use in a Ruger #1. He included load information that will run the bullet at 2000 fps which is about the same as many factory .450/.400 Jefferys that is used a lot in Africa. He also makes a FMJ and think he makes 350 grain bullets also.

Bob

Swift makes a run of A-Frame 350's in .411" every so often. You can contact them at their website and ask if there are future plans for it.

North Fork makes the 360 grain .411".

have shot it in my old 95 and it's fine.....

The gun at the top is my 405

Hi Bob I am a new user, I am a 405 Winchester Fan. I have used the cartridge once so far, I took a large Feral Pig 240-250 Lbs. with it. The rifle used is a Winchester 1885 Hiwall, I used the Hornady 300 grain spitzer. The load was 55 grns. of H4895, O.A.L. is 3.200, Hornady brass, Win 8-1/2-120 Primer. The velocity should be in the 2300-2400 fps range, my rifle has a 28" barrel. I have not chronographed the load at this time. The Boar was about 50 yds away, facing me, angled slightly to the left, I placed the bullet inside the point of the shoulder at the base of the neck (if you can say Hogs have a neck). The Boar dropped at the shot, the post morteum revealed the heart had the top taken off, some of the lungs were totally chingered up. The bullet was found under the hide at the end of the rib cage, it was mushroomed in picture perfect fashion. The bullet had penetrated about 30" of solid hog. I am impressed by the results, the meat wasn't wrecked like you experience with a higher velocity round and there was no doubt about the effectiveness of the round. The rifle has a curved steel butt plate and recoil is substantial (painful), I fabricated a Padded leather recoil pad, the pad helped a great deal in making the rifle tolerable to shoot from the bench. I am getting about 1-1/2" three shot groups @ 100 yds. Please let us Know how the Barnes 300 Grainers do, I think it should be a Great Bullet for the 405.
Good Luck & Great Hunting
Chet