Ok bunch.....I think I have the wife talked into an Alaska hunt in 2008. Matter of fact, she is excited to hunt sheep or Bou's and I want a MASSIVE Moose and a MASSIVE Bear.

Well, when Bear comes up in the conversation, it will be easy to convince her that I "must" have another gun.... (gotta love strategy).

So, for many reasons, I think the 375H&H is going to be my boy.....for many reasons.

Can you think of a gun manufacturer who pops one off the line for a decent price, with decent performance?

Sako

Whenever I get itchy about a .375, I pull up Gunbroker and then search through the sidebar using "Rifles" then "Bolt action" then typing in "375" and watching what comes up. Different styles, manufactures and definintely different prices. You get a feel for what they are selling for, anyway. Also, you get an idea of who is presently making them.

WH;

PM Biathlonman here at the Campfire.

He has/had a .375H&H Whitworth for a helluva nice price a couple of months back.

You won't find one cheaper, and few any better.

I put a NIB Model 70 in .375 H&H for sale here and got only one serious inquiry. Took it down and sold it elsewhere for $400 more.

For Alaska, you should look at the Remington 700 XCR in .375 H&H, because of the bad weather and salt air that might be your hunting environment.

CZ 550 and Zastava are the most affordable 375 H&H on the market. No one can beat them on the price. The CZ 550 also has decent quality on most of their rifles.

I have dragged my CZ550 all over Alaska and Africa and found it to be a most worthwile piece. I also have a Model 70 Classic that I like a lot. If you can find one for a reasonable price snatch it up. Good luck and good hunting. (BTW, AFRICA is a lot more fun and more affordable, IMHO <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

By the time you have got your Zastavas and Czs to feed properly and the triggers to work the way they should, you will have bought the Sako.

Of course the Sako is pushfeed.

Maybe a Remington in XCR but I would only consider one if the Sako type extractor is fitted instead of that feeble excuse for an extractor - so its back to a Gunsmith.

Browning A Bolt? - Maybe but I do not know much about them -but have seen some positive feedback on them.

I have a model 70 which is good now after some tender gunsmithing but was apalling before.

It gets back to the Sako - may seem expensive initially but actually works out as being as affordable as all the other non custom factory rifles without all the hassles.

And when they make the Sako 85 CRF action in 375, that will satisfy the CRF supporters. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As most everyone knows I spent months looking for three-seven-five... I just bought a Whitworth. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

mlg, I agree that CZ rifles can be of different qualtiy. But that was not the question. CZ are affordable, that is what he wanted to know. If it was me, I would go for a Sako or a Sauer in stead, but that is twice the cost of a CZ.

Like Mark, I spent many months looking for a 375 H&H ..... I went with a M700 Sarfari Grade. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but looking forward to it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Frederick

Fair enough - here is Australia the price of a cz is only about 200 to 400 dollars (depending on Sako configuration) less than a Sako and thats at least what it would cost to sort the cz out.

My point was that by the time thats been done , one could buy the Sako. But that is at Australian prices.

What is a Whitworth? I have never heard of them. Not a fancy name for Zastava is it??

"Affordable" and truly good are often two different things.

Rifles are like anything else: You get what you pay for..........

AD

Also, if you can afford a guided hunt for a massive brown bear, which will probably be in the $15k ballpark by 2008, then you can afford a good 375 H&H. I'd also say you don't need a 375, and just might prefer a ligher rifle in say 300 or 338 mag, which is much more versatile for NA hunting.

Ok.....great suggestions.....

I have researched CZ and they seem to be impressive, especially for the price.

I gotta tell you....I am a little intrigued with the 416 Rigby in the CZ.....

What do you guys think?

IMHO, if you're going to an action big enough to handle the 416 Rigby, you should go with a big chambering, like a 470 Mbogo or 500 A-square.

That said, a 416 Rem mag can be built in a 375 H&H sized action and about 9-10# package. I think a 416 is about the perfect big bear round, push a 350 gr X or bonded bullet ~2600 and you have perfection. That is provided you can handle the setback, and want to be toting a 9-10# rifle all week.

I can handle a 9-10# rifle...I am 6'5", 230 lbs, bench 300lbs and can run 10 miles. Two pounds on a rifle is not an issue. But.....I am a puss with heavy recoil.... I am wondering if a muzzle brake that is removable is a good thing? I wouldn't hunt with a muzzle brake, but it might be nice at the range.

What do you guys think?

Wildernesshunter

A 10lb 416 rem Mag should not be a problem at the range for a guy of your size.

Buy yourself a Past Recoil pad and use that over the bench. Its a lot cheaper than a muzzle brake and a lot less hassle.

IMO a muzzle brake is the last thing I would consider. I hate them and would rather put up with the recoil personally.

If you cannot handle the recoil over the bench with a recoil pad the I seriously suggest you move down in caliber. A 375 or a 9.3x62mm comes to mind and they will both handle any bear with the right projectiles.

The 9.3x62 is the milder of the 2 and can be quite tolerable in a lighter rifle than a 375. That would be my choice in an 8 lb rifle if I was concerned with recoil.

The corner piece of my gunsafe is a bog-standard Rem700 Safari Classic in 375H&H. Even at under 8lb ready to go, recoil is relatively mild with its Decelerator pad and straight stock. I've also had a Rem700 BDL in 375H&H and at closer to 9lb it was a dream to shoot. Personally, unless my heart was set on a 375H&H, I'd look at a 338WinMag in a rifle with a configuration that you personally feel comfortable with. Cheers...
Con

On previous occasions I've carried 375s and 416s to Alaska and B.C. for spring bear, and quite honestly, I doubt I ever will again. I don't like packing rifles that heavy, and from here on out, I'm taking my lightweight 338 Win. Mag. instead.

That's really why the 338 Win. Mag. was developed in the first place, and that's to provide near-375 H&H performance for Alaskan-type hunting in a smaller, lighter rifle package, with lighter, more compact ammunition. In that role it succeeds ever so well.

Most 375 H&H and 416 rifles are at their best in flat Africa......

AD

You want an affordable .375 , maybe try to find a used M-70 push feed . It's sort of the Rodney Dangerfield of rifle actions......they feed and function good , shoot good , and yet get no respect...........so you can sometimes pick them up pretty cheap..........

There is a whole world of difference between carrying a 10# rifle on your shoulder, than in your hands for a week and traveling in muskeg. I did just that chasing blacktails last fall, and my rifles are going on a diet.

Just take your 325 wizzum and shoot straight. If you don't care for recoil, don't get a big gun! I've dabbled with big and bigger guns, and have seen the light that while they are good for grins at the range, I don't care for them in the field, and it's not that I don't shoot them just as well as more reasonable rounds.

I have lived my entire life in Grizzly country and used six different .375 H&H CRF rifles throughout B.C./AB. and so forth; it is a fabulous round and gave me great confidence when living/working alone in remote wilderness. I have a superb P-64 Mod. 70 re-stocked with a Borden synthetic and a few other mods, yet, I never use it.

This is because I completely agree with Allen, a good .338 with 250 premium bullets is close to the .375 in function against Grizzlies, is lighter to pack in mountains all day and is easier to shoot accurately from field positions. It was, as he states, developed for the Alaskan-B.C.-Yukon type of hunting and there is nothing better.

For a simon-pure working rifle, I have obtained two minty Oberndorf Mauser sporters in 9.3x62, after years of pestering the owners and this old round, with 286 NPs and five shots in a rifle of just over 8 lbs. is my idea of perfection for packing among big, truculent bears. I am not especially recoil-sensitive and can and have shot many larger rounds, BUT, you have to carry your gun, all day and .375s tend to be a tad heavy for this.

I admit, I am a .338 nut, but, I have yet to have or see a failure with one and the 250 NP is real comforting when in the loonschitt by yourself with steaming bear doo-doo beside you on the trail. Right now, for a top-end .338, I would try to finance either an Echol's "Legend" or a Waffen-Hein; another option is to buy a used, NOT new, Dakota and have it tweaked by a top 'smith.

What about a .350 Rem Mag with 250gr. NP around 2400 - 2500 fps.? Light weight rifle with less recoil than the .338 and .375, and should work quite well on BB.

a .375 h&h can be built as light as a .338 win mag, and i prefer the recoil of the .375, like a heavy push, compared to the sharp jab of the .338. another thing i like about the .375 is the long tapered case tends to feed slicker than cat s**t, something that has been lost with the new sharp shouldered wonders.

I am having a 375 H&H rifle built on a Ruger aciton for the reasons of portability.

It shoudl weigh in abouthte same as a comparable 338 WM.

I am getting rid of my 375 H&H Brno 602, simply becuase it is too heavy to pack all day, especialy since it has a heavy, fully bedded fiberglass stock.

I lugged it around on several bear hunts, and while it is a good rifle, it's just too heavy.

I've been looking for a .375 H&H for some time as well. My wife and I stopped by a small shop today and what do I find but a virtually mint, and I mean mint other than there was no OEM box, Winchester Model 70 Super Express .375 H&H. This is the push-feed model and was in as new a condition as any rifle I ever removed from a factory box. It was there on consignment and the shop keep was prety certain the fellow who placed it with him had never even chambered a round in it.

We made a deal, along with a box of Federal Classic 270 grain soft points, and it came home with me this afternoon. I'm happy. You never know what you're going to find on the wall or in a rack in an out of the way gun shop.

Good logic there.
I believe the tapering was designed into the cartridge more for fighting the heat expansion of African hunting, but there's no reason it shouldn't work as well in the cooler temperatures of Alaska.

AZJR --- excellent find for you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Go to your range with 25 rounds of .338 Win.-250 NPs and an 8.5 lb. .338 AND 25 rounds of .375 H&H-300 NPs and an 8.5 lb .375 H&H and shoot BOTH of these rifles, side by side. I have done exactly this many times and find that the .375 kicks much harder than the .338.

You can certainly build a light .375, but, you can build a slightly lighter .338, given the barrel diameters and the recoil from a light .375 will ALWAYS exceed that of a .338 of equal weight. If, you are in bear country, you want your rifle in your hands and packing a heavier rifle that way, all day gets really tiring.

I know a number of guys who had very light .375s and even .338s built for packing in the mountains of B.C. AND every one of them has gone to heavier rifles, usually .338s. But, for those that can handle it, a light .375 is a fine choice, but, for most purposes, it's not my choice after years of packing one.

Most of the time, your .375 is going to be slung on your shoulder.

When you do have it in your hands tracking Mr. Big, you aren't going to notice an extra pound. What really counts is the balance, how it points for you, and how well the sights line up to your eyes when you have to put it there without taking your eyes off your quarry, and maybe in a big hurry.

I have a 350 Rem mag in a Rem 660. Great rifle. Light weight hard hitting, relatively light recoil. The first "short magnum".
I just mounted a Leupold 2 1/2 power scope on it. I intend to use it as my primary rifle this fall. Last year, it was a 45/70, the previous year it was a .458 Win mag. Next year, who knows?

Local dealer here in Alaska was selling a special run of Savage stainless 375 H&H's for about $600 I think. Contact Boondocks in Eagle River Alaska to see if they have any remaining.

With all the super premium bullets available today , my feeling would be there is no real need need for 300 gr slugs in the .375 ; 270 grainers should be plenty for N American use .

So loaded , I doubt you could feel much difference in recoil , or weight of the ammo for that matter............

I do like my Sako 375 but if I didn't have it I would be just fine with a Ruger 338 all weather. The weight does add up. The Sako I have is the old Hunter and it's in a McMillan stock and isn't that bad but some are Heavy. Either will do the job.

A local shop here in Helena, MT has 2 375's on the rack, a used weatherby hunter that they are asking $850 for and a Whitworth that belongs to one of the guys in the shop and is asking $1250. I will get you the phone number if interested.

Boy....I want a 375 bad, but I will bide my time and look for a great deal.

Today, I had a gun broker call me with the following:

375H&H, Browning A-Bolt Stainless, Synthetic Stock for $799.

I know the A-Bolt has a bad rep in Alaska for a complicated trigger that rusts up...but is the Stainless model a good choice?

Great point my friend. Maybe my 325WSM is enough "juice" for anything in North America.

I suppose I could take the stand that my 270WSM and my 325WSM are all I need.




============================

I sure wouldn't call an A-Bolt at 800 bucks a good deal..........keep looking.....

For DG I have 3 calibers to choose from. A Model 70 in both 416 Rem Mag and 375 H&H and a Tikka Stainless Synthetic in 9.3x62mm ( can be had in 338 Win Mag).

The 416 weighs close to 11 lbs with scope/bases and 3 + 1 rounds. The 375 is about 1 lb lighter - same configuration.

The 9.3x62 is just over 6.5lbs with mounts/scope + a synthetic mag holding 5 rounds.

If its a serious walk, and Elephant is not on the menu (in my case unlikely), its a no brainer as to which rifle I will take!

Food for thought.

There are a lot of 375's out there. Most work pretty well. My personal opinion is the Browning would be below the bottom of the list. In fact, it probably would not even be on the list.

Here is what you need. A short compact 375 H&H, built on a winchester action.

Wieghts just over 7lbs with scope. The same configuration in 9.3x62 would also be a great choice. I have a 9.3 scout built on a p17 enfield and at 8.5lbs isn't too bad for a walk around gun.

I suppose the term affordable means different things to different people. But if I were going to buy a new 375 H&H, it would be a stainless steel Ruger #1. It will handle most any critter in most any weather, plus scope rings will come in the box. I'd probably scope it out, but would be tempted to sight in a New England peep on the rig too. I'm not huge person, but not tiny either (6', 210lbs), but I'll admit I don't care for discomfort on the bench, and in my opinion recoil and discomfort may be two different things. My Ruger #1 in .338 Win Mag. is actually more comfortable to shoot than the Ruger M77 I used to own in 7mm Rem. Mag. That #1 shoves me back decently, but doesn't hurt. My 7Mag left my facial area a little tender from all the slaps.

If he ever wants to go to Africa, the 375 would cover a lot of ground. And, it's probably the most "shootable" big bore, if the 375 qualifies there. I think getting competent with a 375 would be a pretty good thing.

No, I wouldn't use it on whitetails, but you could. Heck in many states you're limited to 72 cal slugs or premium sabots putting out 3500 pounds of energy. I call that over kill ha!

TM

AZ -

I have the exact gun with the NECG in 416 Rigby and it is beautiful. But, in 375 I would prefer a bolt gun with magazine extension. More manufacturers make a good 375 and ammo is easier to come by.

TM

375 remington in the scout configuration in a McMillan stock.

Now, what was the question?

Seems like sound reasoning for your ideas on a 375. I have to ask though, how do you like that peep sight on your .416? I'm a scope short right now and to save a little money (and to be different) I'm thinking of getting a New England sight for my #1RSI in 7x57. I know this is a subjective thing, but how far are you comfortable shooting with that set up on your Ruger? Are you using the Ruger factory bead up front?

My main reason for putting the NECG's on both my No. 1's is that I tried all kinds of ring and scope combos on both. Mostly low power fixed and variables. Even bought extended rings to get the eye relief right.

What I found was that I just hated the guns with scopes on them. The eye pieces always covered the chamber, getting in the way when loading. And, I just think they look better without a scope.

My main concern with the NECG was that putting it out on the rear ring position puts it forward of any true receiver sight. When I got it on the gun, I found that was not a problem. I can pick up the front sight easily.

As for the front bead - they are stock. I have a Trijicon night sight on the front blade of my Dawson sights for a Glock 21. It's a great look and really helps. I'd like to see NECG offer a trijicon front post for the Number 1. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

As for shooting - scopes are always going to be more precise. However, peeps can be too if you know the bead substention value at 100 yards. If the bead subtends 12 inches at 100 yards it's like using the duplex scope reticle as a range finder and for hold over.

Personally I'd limit myself to game animals at 300 yards. But for varmints and rocks and dirt clods - anything goes! Ha! Did some amazing shooting with a peep sighted Savage Scout in 308. It takes practice and knowledge of the gear.

TM

Josh

2 nice rifles there!!

where has (need) gotten in the way of a new gun..If it were me I'd buy a ruger77 in .375HH If you wants a .375hh by all means buy one...The small price of a new gun is seriously overshadowed by the price of an Alaskan hunt...the .325wizzum will work fine..but the .375HH is a true classic......Heck a .30-06 would work for arguments sake...

Robert.....Or even a .35whelen chambered in a BLR <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />..

The best bargain I have seen recently in a .375 H&H is in the CDNN catalog. Superior Grade Safari Mauser Charles Daly Custom Rifle (made by Zastava). The rifle is a special limited edition: oil finished Turkish walnut stock, rose wood grip cap, hand checkering, monte carlo stock with cheek piece. The blue metal is high polished, cross bolt, hammer forged 24" barrel, and of course the action is forged steel Mauser. Trigger is adjustable. The bottom metal is steel with hinged floorplate. Price is $569.99.

If you don't know CDNN mostly sells close-puts and discontinued models.

jim

Josh

Is that a 20" barrel on your Winchester? It looks very handy.

I have a BRNO 602 in .375 H&H that I am having shortened to 20". It'll make a great coastal BC hunting and working rifle.

Yes sir 20" barrel. I haven't noticed that much loss in velosity and it is much handier than a 24" barrel in the thick brush.

That Boondocks place still has them for $599, but they are 20" barrels and weigh about 6.5# ! Not me...

Here's a picture of my BRNO 602 .375 H&H.

It's a true Mauser action, controlled round feed, non-rotating extractor, excellent express sights.

You can buy them used in Canada for $700-800 in very good condition.

I have shortened the barrel on mine to 20" as it will be used for dealing with problem bears at close range in Northern Canada.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/bearguns0005_1.jpg

Get One! I've used 3 (.270,9.3X62,.458 Win.). I've not found it necessary to 'fix'em up'. No feeding,ejection or accuracy problems. Plus if you hunt massive bears a CRF is the only way to go.

Ditto.

CZs are fantastic rifles. My next rimfire will be a 452, and I may just break down and get a CZ in .375 H&H or 9.3x62, too.

My go to big gun is a CZ in 416 Rigby. Wonderful weapon.

Speaking of affordable, I just scored a .375 Model 70 brl used. Its for the Classic action - newer version of the CRF. Now looking for an action to screw onto the barrel. Need a magnum bolt face, long action. Affordable is the word.

Found an action, should work if they can come up with a magazine box and follower for the .375.

ss,

I was in the local shoppe yesterday chattin' about using a standard magnum action ( 300WM or 7RM) and the smith (young fella just startin' out ... does some nice work) showed me one he just got done with in 375 H&H. Said the standard mag box and follower are fine, they were already at 3.6". Had a nice set-up looked and balanced very nicely!! However, he said he wouldn't label it a DGR since he didn't machine away part of the rear bridge in M70 express style, which made it a more dextorious (not a real word <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) process in the event of a rapid reload. He had it for sale but outta my price range.

Well, the magazine box that came with this action has a spacer in it that won't allow H&H rounds to fit. Brownells and Midway list a separate one for these longer magnums. Their websites seem to show them out of stock.

My Personal preference would be to use a M1999 Barreled action and an Accurate Innovations stock like Joe Graham from NRA did (you can see the rifle on MT Riflemans website in their trophy room) and if I wanted a production rifle and wasn't going to AK till 2008 like you say I would wait for new Kimbers that are supposed to be out by the first part of 2007 ( I was told in 375, 458 Lott and 416 rem).

I'd like to share something about the 20" barrel Savage 116 FSS, "Alaskan Guide" rifle. I shot the same PMC 300 grain XLC loads in it and in my CZ 550, 25 inch bbl., the mean velocity difference was only 28 fps, 2334 fps vs 2362 fps.

My friggen 'buddy' locate a CZ full length stocked, at a local gun dealer today. It's an '06 and I already have two I don't use,really wanted a 7X57. But I'm gonna buy it anyway cuz I love CZ's and always wanted a full length stock 'something' cuz I like their looks.

Yeah,hopeless.

I have never hunted Big Bears, but I do own two .338s and they are really nice to shoot. Besides what Kootenay recommended (all very good by the way) you also couldn't go wrong with an early Model 70 Classic in .338. They will have a serial number under 300,000 and will have the small screw in the bolt shroud. If you buy one of these they will most always be smooth and the scope mount holes will be straight, and the barrels will most often shoot surprisingly good. At least my two do (one stainless and the other blue). Only thing about them you might not like would be the 26 inch barrels, which you might want to have cut down to 24 inches for carrying purposes, and of course, have the trigger looked at as well. Otherwise, you really aren't going to get a much better (subjective I know) rifle for under $800.00.

I have 2 of those early production Classics chambered in 338. One in Stainless, the other is blued. The Stainless rifle is as close to "perfect" for hunting Alaska as it gets. You don't need a 375 H and a H for Alaska. If you are going to hunt Africa, then I'd buy one.

Some of the longest shots I've ever taken at game have been in Alaska. A Moose at close to 300 hundred yards, and a bear at 250. Keep that in mind.

There may be no other place in North America that you will hunt, where owning a Stainless Steel rifle makes as much sense. It could rain every single day that you hunt. Certainly make sure that it wears a synthetic stock.