I am contemplating purchasing a 1997 Winchester Model 70 "Classic Express" in .375 H&H. It's an itch that I have had since my first pre-64 Model 70.

From everything I have read this is a great rifle from the end of a great period in Winchester's manufacturing history in New Haven.

Is there anything that I should be aware of from rifles manufactured during this period, good or bad? I am actually looking for a M70 made during this period.

I got a lefty in 375 that I will never sell.

Wagon, I've never read or heard anything bad about Mod. 70's from that period. Just my simple minded opinion but if it looks good to you and the price suits I don't think you'd go wrong.

I love my Safari Express .375 H&H. One of the smoothest, most accurate rifles I own. I don't see how you could go wrong. I've been thinking about one in .416 rem.

Might get your trigger finger banged up by the guard. I did. The Brno I found doesn't, but I don't have the usual body conformation.

Have a .375 H&H “XTR” from early ‘80’s and love it (though it was retired for a lighter .375AI). Would love to have one in .458 Win., and make a Lott from it! memtb

I have a Lefty I hope to never sell. Bought it when they were doing the last runs at New Haven. The barrel was screwed on so crooked I could not get on paper with the scope. The irons shot fine though. Winchester shipped for free and then had the Custom shop re-work it. I think they used a new custom barrel but the thing shoots lights out now and it might be the most accurate factory rifle I own. The rifles are overly heavy for a 375 as the barrel is the same contour as the 458. Many cut the barrel back or put it in a synthetic stock to lighten it some. But I like mine as is as the recoil is mild with the heavy stock and barrel. Mine will get a Rigby style express stock put on it at some point. A trimmer shorter stalking rifle type stock out of Circassian walnut.

The too-long and too-thick barrel is a bother to hunt with, but does make it more pleasant for casual shooting.

Yes, for an "ideal" rifle, the barrels are too heavy on these M70's. However, other than Tejano's experience, I've never heard of one not shooting really well. I have two Safari Express rifles, a .416 Rem and a .375 H&H. Both shoot extremely well and while heavier than ideal, I've never had an issue carrying them while hunting. I've also never had an issue with either banging my trigger or middle finger when firing. As others have said, as long as the rifle looks good, I doubt you'd be unhappy with purchasing it. I love to shoot the .416 Rem. It was always a rifle I wanted and I was not disappointed. I shoot it well and have used it for both elk hunting here in the States and in Africa. You couldn't pay me enough to buy it. The .375 H&H I bought because it was a smokin' deal. I haven't hunted with it but it shoots great. I've also got a .375 H&H in the stainless/synthetic version that is basically the same rifle, only without the barrel mounted recoil lug. I've used that for Brown Bear and it carries fine in the alders and devils club. Heavier than I would like, but in that stuff, everything is heavier than I'd like.

I have had various Win M70 Classic configurations in 375 H&H and always liked shooting them and never had an issue with their function.
I have always thought they could certainly be slimmer.

I think the BACO Alaskan got the barrel profile and weight correct. I have a slight regret on not purchasing one of the two that I ever personally saw in the 375 H&H stainless/laminate Alaskan. But, personally much prefer the Classic old style trigger.

I have a couple of the Classic stainless models. One of them is being place in a McMillan Supergrade stock, PT&G stainless bottom metal added, and the barrel being cut to 22". This will be about as far as I am going to go with my ideal 375 H&H.

I do really like the 375 H&H cartridge, but use rifles in the 375 Ruger more. Perhaps this rifle may change that. But since I am a North America only Hunter, I doubt it.

I have a Classic Safari Express in 416 Remington and a stainless Classic re-barrel to 416 Remington, with a HS Precision stock. The Classic re-barrel is a favorite.

Agree, but you can chop and flute it down to a reasonable weight.

They shoot too good to swap.

DF

What length is the barrel now?

Is that the factory stock?

What's the current weight?

That's a good looking rig...

21", Karl did the flutes, Steel Bedded factory stock, NECG irons.

With the Victory 1.5-6x42 it's pushing 9#'s all up. If I swapped to the VX-3 1.5-5x20 it would be a little over 8 1/2 pounds, which is about as light as I'd want a .375 H&H. I generally don't like Tupperware, but have gotten used to this one, like the way it handles and it's tough. In this configuration, balance is good, handling is quick and like most M-70's, it's a shooter.

DF

Who is Karl?

Karl Feldcamp at Kampfeld Customs. One of the best for fluting and other stuff, including full custom guns.

Google him.

DF

Thanks

DF,
Any idea how much the fluting reduced weight ?
Definitely a nicely looking and highly functional rig. As stated many times, that scope is one of my favorites for many rifles.

About 6 oz, maybe a tad less due to having to miss iron sights.

DF

That is definitely a shooter and a good looking M70. While I am not a synthetic stock aficionado that rig looks good. Did the NECG irons just drop on the Model 70? I could not tell from the picture if the NECG rear sight was mounted. I was going to get the rear NECG sight for my Lipsey's Ruger M77 RSI in brushed stainless .30-06. I did not know they fit on the Model 70.

BTW my 1997 Winchester Model 70, "Classic Express" in .375 H&H is on the way. I should have it some time next week.

PS Holy cow, that is a heck of a Zeiss Scope, $2500+!

I got that scope used on a trade. It is expensive, retail, new. I’ve had experienced African hunters comment on what a good cat rig that is. That scope is really good at dim light as in hunting leopards over bait. Have never done that, but reportedly I have the right rig. The short barrel would be handy in a blind. Not that pretty, but “pretty is as pretty does”, seems like Forest Gump said that. It’s a working gun, not a show piece.

The .375 H&H with soft bullets is said to be good cat medicine. IIRC, a South African company makes a highly frangible .375 bullet that cat hunters like. Blow’s them up , DRT.

Give New England Custom a call. Good folks, lots of help. Irons can be more complicated than one may think. I remember the process, not the details, slept since then.

Best of luck with your new Classic Express. If it’s too heavy, give Karl a call. He can do the sights, everything you may need or want. When other gunsmiths brag on his work, it’s good

DF

Check out Cutting Edge Bullets on line. They’re sorta the mono version of a Partition, petals fly off, core bores on thru.

They’re very effective on game. Only down side, besides cost; reportedly they can start breaking up if they strike a twig or brush before hitting the critter.

They’re generally pretty accurate. I don’t use them in thickets, just open ground.

DF

DF nice rig and an ideal Alaskan Rifle too. Shorter is better in the Alders. Irons only are good for nasty weather too.

Thanks, Tejano.

I'm not much into irons, but feel they're needed on this kinda gun. The front is fiberoptic which helps some. It has a windowed hood to let in light while protecting the fiberoptic bead.

It's too bad those Express M-70's had one contour for .458, .416 and .375. May have made sense to the bean counters. Of course, the .375 had the least metal removed with its smaller bore, leaving way too much steel in the 24" barrel. The difference in handling from heavy 24" factory to the configuration you see with mine, is remarkable.

If you could handle the before and after, you'd become an instant believer.

DF

Out of the box and eleven African animals later...

Not bad...

Nut behind the trigger do make a difference...

DF

Jorge, I've heard that H414 burns dirty and is very temperature sensitive but I see that the proof is in the group, outstanding shooting. I may have to try it in my 30-06, if I can't get ahold any more H4350.

The top shot is a couple of millimeters off center, though.

Yep...

Maybe Jorge can tighten that group a bit, pull that top round down into the group...

DF

I'm seeing 4451 and it'll work where 4350 works.

RL-15 is still a .375 H&H favorite, even with 300's. Some like Big Game and I see Nosler listing RL-19 as accuracy powder for 300 gr.

So, the H&H is pretty versatile regarding powders that will work. RL-16 and 17 may be worth trying. CFE-223 (Pw Pro 2000-LR) are in that general burn rate. Haven't tried these, but I won't run out of H&H powder...!

And, that's a good thing...

DF

RL-15 works very well too. Yeah, I know. Need to work on getting that group a bit tighter!

Would love to see the improved version...

DF

x2 on chopping and fluting. I owned a stainless classic right before New Haven shut its doors. The extractor needed tensioned to make it extract properly, the barrel was full of tooling marks and it was very particular on what it would group. After getting the extractor fixed, trigger worked, I finally found a few bullets that would group well, so ordered a Micky supergrade. It was a nice rifle but too muzzleheavy and I like a little weight out front. My current M70 375 also sits in a supergrade but has a 22" fluted barrel, balance is PERFECT!