What is the fastest hunting load you have worked up in the .308 win and still kept pressure signs in the safe zone.

What bullet?

Your pick. I have some 151 Absolute Hammers and 165 accubonds on hand

Cutting Edge Bullets 100 gr. Raptor.....no problem getting 3400 fps......have shot big game up to the size of elk.....none have taken more than a couple steps.....
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/308-100gr-flat-base-raptor

If I was bumping 2,950 with a 150 in a 24" tube or 2,750 with a 165, I'd feel like I was "there" with regards to top-end. The .308 doesn't need to run at absolute redline to be effective. I'm good with 2,850 and 150's in a 22" barrel, shooting H4895. Made about 2,880 in another 22" gun with 155 Scenar and RL15. Both shot well. I think that 155 Scenar offers a lot for a little.

150 gr 3000 fps...........................no brass life at all.

I shoot the Lapua Scenar 155 with Ramshot Tac 46.0 grains at 2925 from an 18.5 inch barrel. Sub moa and single digit SDs.

I'll bet that's pushing 75 ksi

51.5gns CFE223 and a 150gn Nosler ballistic tip averaged 3003fps out of my Rem 700 .308 22" bbl, which is pretty much exactly what Quickload says it will do. In terms of velocity, text best powder with a 150gn pill in my rifle is Alliant PowerPro MR-2000.

The Ramshot Manual shows Berger 155 VLD, Hornady 155 AMAX, and Sierra 155 HPBT Match with 57.0, 57.9 an 61 grains at 59K, 58K and 59.5K using TAC.

The Scenar is most like the Sierra HPBT Match. Where did you get 75K?

Running a 130 Barnes TTSX with TAC in a Win. M70 Classis stainless 3170 fps. Gets to 300 yds in a hurry and not dragging its feet.

155 Scenar and Varget for 2,950 with no issues. 24" barrel.

Agreed.

Might want to double check your data, hero.

Same here with MR 2000 2925 fps with 50.5 gr. 22 inch

You check it, hero.

https://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf

My copy was a little older, but the new load book from Ramshot sure isn't in the 75K MPSI range if he adds 0.3 grains to the Sierra load.

I'm getting a little over 2,880 fps from the Barnes 150-grain factory load in a 22" Remington 700.


Okie John

I know you were an officer, so I suppose I'll have to dumb it down for you. 46 grains is significantly different than the 57 to 61 in your post (that's more powder than a 30-06 will use with TAC and 155s). 2925 fps in an 18.5" barrel is more than Ramshot is achieving with their 24" barrel. A barrel 5.5" shorter than the test barrel is going to be slower, not faster. So, since velocity equals pressure, the 18.5" 2925 fps load in question is either a: significantly over pressure in order to achieve such high velocity, or b: the poster's chronograph is off.

You win. I looked at the wrong table.

My bad. Thanks for correcting me, and I mean that.

No worries! Hopefully it's a chronograph issue and not an over pressure issue, as blowing a primer or worse is a bad deal!

And I could certainly do a better job of reining in my snark.

that load you lookin fer is called the 300 WSM

I know how to read pressure gents. Never had a sticky extraction. Primers still had rounded edges. No ejector marks of any kind. No expansion near the web of the case. I found that TAC is only 20-40 FPS faster in my longer barreled 308s.

Velocity checked on Labradar and MagnetoSpeed. As a responsible sportsman and shooter I would not have posted a load that was marginal on pressure. I shoot some like that but would never post them for the world to see.

I hear good things about Hammer Bullets, and CFE-223. With this powder and 152 grain Hammer Hunter Bullet reach velocity over 3000 fps.

You can always use your Google or other search engine to look this up.

Take care

The Barnes Data is what I used since the 155 Scenar is longer than the typical 155 grain bullet from any other maker because the entire nose is hollow almost to the ogive...maybe a little past. Maximum was 48.2 grains of powder to yield 2980ish FPS. Try it and see. In contrast a 46.2 grains of Varget with all the same components yields 2775 from the rifle above. 2812 from a 20 inch. And 2889 from a 22 inch. Some powders peak faster than others.

This is my max too. If I think I need more I have other rifles that can provide that too.

Found this:

308 (riceman) 124 Hammer Hunter - 25”bbl
Lee FCD crimped
WLR
2.728
.070 off
CFE 223
53.0gr

3236
Should get 3100 with
std length bbl

It's no big trick to get 3000 fps with a 150gr Hornady sp interloc with a Max charge of LVR that's safe in my Ruger M77 308 22"barrel.

The online Barnes data showing 48.2 grains as max is with 150s. Their 155 Match Burner data tops out at 46.6 grains, for 2904 fps.....in a 24" barrel.

155 Matchburner is 1.256 in. long
155 Scenar is 1.290 in. long
150 Barnes TSX is 1.301 in. long

Might be an oversimplification, but it feels safer going with the longer bullet data and stop if I saw pressure or since this is a hunting gun, show any signs of flash. I actually went up to 47.5 and besides having a wide plateau in speed the SD and ES and group sizes were larger.

Higher than expected velocity is a pressure sign. Overall bullet length isn't as important as bearing surface when it comes to pressure.

I have never tried to work up a fast 308 load. I work for accuracy and what ever speed the bullet goes ,it goes. I chronograph only after I get satisfactory accuracy. I like to have all my 150 grain bullets in the 2675 to 2750 range, and near the same for 165s.
I like to see 180 go 2475 to 2550 from my 308s

If that for some reason seems as it it's not powerful enough I take out a more powerful rifle.

I I have 270s the shoot 150s at the top end of 2900 and one that touches 3000. I have a few 30-06 that can drive the same bullets as my 308s a bit faster with very good accuracy. (as if that mattered)

If even more is wanted I have a 358 Winchester, two 9.3X57s, a 9.3X74R a 9.3X62 and a 375H&H and a 404 Jeffery.

So I see no reason to hotrod any gun just to hot rod it.

If it shoots well with a hot safe load, that's great. My 25-06 and two of my 270s do just that,. But I shoot what seems to do well for accuracy with good game bullets' that don't break up badly on impact. I don't care about speed for speed's sake.

My 6.5, both of my 308s, one of my 30-06s and my 8X57 all shoot best with moderate loads and they kill things just fine. I have been doing it for a LOT of years and have learned that chancing more velocity just to make a bullet go faster is mostly a waist of time in the real world for hunting.

Yep,

I will take accuracy over another 50-75 FPS every time.

In fact, I'll take better accuracy over even 100-125 FPS every time

I’ve had good results, accuracy and on-game performance, running .308s a couple of grains off the top, pretty much like a .300 Savage, but my shots are close. With a new one on the way, I invested in some 130gr TTSXs just to see if they're all they’re cracked up to be. 3100 is supposed to be doable with those; even 3200. We shall see.

I use 46 of TAC over 150 NBT all the time. I think it's fairly common max load for TAC and 150s. I get 2850 fps from 20" barrel.

Yes. And an additional 75 fps from an inch and a half shorter barrel, with a heavier bullet, means higher pressure.

And easily Submoa most times you pull the trigger. Has that been your experience?

Yes. I used that combo for a few years on whitetail, hog, javelina and mule deer. Nothing took a step and it always exited even through both shoulders of an old mule deer.

Pappy348, you can do it with TAC.....those 130's are the ticket in a 308, can be pushed to 270 speed.

200 grain Berger at 2725 FPS

150 gr 3000 fps, brass cannot be re used.

People call it a lot of different names but I like to call it the new 308 magnum IMPROVED.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/a-new-ruling-for-the-30-06-sprg/#:~:text=The%20trajectory%20advantage%20goes%20to%20150-grain%20bullets%20in,Sprg.%20with%20a%2022-inch%20barrel%20was%203%2C080%20fps.

48.5 gr Varget
155 Scenar
Lapua cases
2885 fps
1 hole groups in my Sako 85 Finnlight 2

About 3140 fps with the 125 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip and 50 grains of Varget. 24" Krieger 1:12 twist barrel. It's a book load. Scoots.

Shoots great too, quite accurate. Loaded it for a recoil-shy friend who then flattened a fat whitetail buck with it. I was with her when she shot the buck. Bullet went through both shoulder blades and was recovered, quite flattened, under the off-side hide.

Regards, Guy

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/a-new-ruling-for-the-30-06-sprg/#:~:text=The%20trajectory%20advantage%20goes%20to%20150-grain%20bullets%20in,Sprg.%20with%20a%2022-inch%20barrel%20was%203%2C080%20fps

Good little article on 150's from the 30-06 on game including elk. Thanks for posting it!

Regards, Guy

This is a serious question - but WHY? Is this a personal challenge, a phallic measuring thing/ I seriously want to know as I just got another .308 (Steyr Scout) and want to work up a good hunting load for it. It never occurred to me to try and achieve Mach3 with a .308, I like what another poster said "that is what a 300 WSM is for". The idea of an exotic bullet like a Cutting Edge 100 grain going 3000+ fps does intrigue me, but it follows proper physics of lighter bullet = faster speed. I do love CFE 223 for .308, it has been my go-to hunting load/powder for 6 years using a seriously boring Sierra Gameking 165grain HPBT that has all the aerodynamics of a school bus. That slow-poke round doing around 2600 fps recorded my longest deer kill, a 450 yard shot that went through both shoulders of a nice buck out of a Remington VTR (effectively a 19" to 20" barrel) when you subtract the length of the three slotted muzzle brake on the triangle barrel.

https://www.amazon.com/Status-Game-Position-Governs-Everything-ebook/dp/B08H7Y414K

Will Storr has written a book saying most things are best explained by status, even virtue signaling. The exception is sex, which is a more basic instinct than status.

Maybe the .308 is what the OP has to work with and he wants to safely optimize its performance, nothing wrong with that.

Having said that, as prairie goat already pointed out, using Barnes data for jacketed bullets is not the way to go, the bearing surface being much less on the Barnes. Length is irrelevant, bearing surface is not.

What’s the need for the fastest load???
Why?

PS, for those who say they'd rather chase accuracy than speed, going from 1.5 moa to .75 moa is akin to going from 2800 fps to 2900. For almost all hunting applications they both don't make a lot of difference.

3,100 fps with the 130 TTSX and max load of CFE-223

Similar, my 130 TTSX load is 3100 with Varget from a 24”, which is slightly below max.

I've been loading, shooting, and killing animals with the 308 for the better part of 10 years. It's been my main killing rifle. I didnt plan it that way, it just sort of evolved- its accurate, light, and I shoot it well.

I agree with smoke - I tend to maximize performance - but I dont chase every last fps. I maximize the combination of accuracy and velocity. My rifle tends to like several loads for any given bullet. In this rifle, I usually find 2-3 recipes for any given bullet and pick the most consistent accuracy with the most velocity.

To that end, I've run 180s to 2650 and shot elk/deer. I run 165s to 2700 and have shot elk/deer. I'm using 150 TTSX this year at 2885 for elk. I developed a 130 TTSX load this past year that clocks 3050 and can get to 3100. All in 22 inch Kimber Montana that weighs 6.6 lbs with a NF SHV atop. That rifle fits 99% of my hunting situations from deer to black bear to elk.

And I was not a fan of the 308 in my younger years. It just sort of happened - wasnt fast enough, didnt shoot flat enough, didnt recoil enough to seem effective, blag, blah, blah. There are better tools for true long range work. My hunting style doesnt seem to correlate with long range. I prepare for it but end up shooting something at less than 200 yards. At least for the past 40+ years.

I think the gist of the thread is about effectively killing an animal. The 308 does it very well within reasonable ranges. 50-100 ft/sec really wont make that much difference. Lob one into the lungs and get your knife out.

Get outta here with your rationale and pragmatism! But seriously, I echo your sentiments, especially in your journey to arrive at your .308 destination. I've been enamored with all sorts of magnums, but continuously find myself trying to add the perfect .308 to my arsenal to become a one-gun hunter. I had a custom one built for me this year, 24" Proof light sendero on a trued Remington action, with plans to launch 155 Scenars through it. It was inspired by @scenarshooter and the multiple Scenar threads on here. Haven't got it dialed in, yet, but it sure looks damn cool.

Sure does. Thus far I have yet to need more. I have more but don't need more.

Point vs Counterpoint

I prefer my bullets to run at a minimal velocity threshold of 2800 fps. Anything less is unacceptable. My maximum velocity threshold depends on the intended use for the cartridge.

I run the 130 TTSX bullets at 3,150 in my .308Win but just ordered some 124gr Hammers to see what they might achieve. The Hammers generate less pressure and should hit 3,200 ft/sec without too much difficulty. Endlessly testing loads/bullets/powder is just part of the addiction.

125g Accubonds or Sierra Game changers at 3150 with Win 748 shooting tiny groups is the norm, 24" Rem 700 and Douglas on Ruger. Light TTSX runs about the same.

What do you (and others) think of this bullet for both accuracy & game-taking ability?

Just picked up a box of the 130 gr TTSX's because I was curious...

Thanks, Guy

I'm planning on reaming mine out with a slightly wider 30 degree shoulder, long-throated, 22 inch barrel to keep it very short, using the 165 grain Sierra TGK with a reasonable bc of .530, good sectional density and running temperature stable Varget at 2800+ fps using Winchester 7-08 brass to give a longer neck.

Buy a dialing scope and ignore velocity if that matters to you. The difference in even 100fps in a .308 is nearly insignificant in the field

Killed an antelope Tuesday with a 125 gr TGK with a load of TAC that averages 3227 fps. This is in line with Sierra's data and is a grain under their published maximum. If anyone is curious, the bullet exited on a broadside shot, destroyed 2 ribs and made a mess of his insides.

Running this idea through Quickbook, you'll theoretically gain around 36 fps with the improved 308 over the standard 308, when both are loaded to 3.0" (and that's using an Ackley, not the 30 degree, which may show a tad more improvement over your round). If ordering custom dies, time involved in the project, smithing fees, and possible feeding problems seem worth it, go for it, but you'll never see a difference anywhere other than your chronograph, plus gaining a lighter wallet or higher credit card bill.

I think mine will feed ok as I have already done it in another bore, I'll just use the same reamer. It may hold the same as the Ackley as the shoulder is more forward on the neck than the Ackley (that's why I will use 7-08 brass, plus I lose about .010" when fireforming), but the greater shoulder slope reduces powder capacity...should be about the same. Gain will be about 50 fps I estimate, being a combination of a few more grains of powder and running slightly higher pressure because of the straighter walls and shoulder angle. Dies take 2 years from CH4D. I made up a dummy round and it looks good. I agree that the difference is not noticeable, but there is a difference and I'm happy to experiment and get a slight improvement. It's sort of a bit interesting to me. The benefit is a 22" barrel with a short action, a projectile with good weight - 165 gn , good sectional density, good bc at 2800 fps or more (depending on where accuracy is best) with a temperature stable powder, negligible case stretching. The long-throating also gives some benefit with the 165 gn projectiles, but the usual lead core 150's especially with boat-tails won't have much grip on them or are too far from the lands for accuracy usually.

Exactly. Why try to make the .308 one?

There's no denying the .308 Win is a good hunting round, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are other rounds (such as the 7-08, .30-06 and even the less powerful .300 Savage) that have some slight advantages in some areas but have disadvantages in other areas when compared to the .308 Win. By tweaking the .308 Win, you can attempt to erode or eliminate the advantages that other rounds have over the .308 in the areas that they have those advantages, whilst at the same time, keeping most of the advantages the .308 Win has over the other rounds. And the beauty of it is, those who want to stick to their current way of doing things with their .308 can...they don't have to change one bit!

I don't fret 100fps in my 308... the elk I've shot with 168's at 2650 fps MV died PDQ. That being said, 150's at 2850 are about as fast as I've seen in my hunting rifle.

What barrel length?

A 150 at 2850 is doable with book loads out of my 22" factory Remington barrel.

If a guy is looking for more performance, going to a 7mm with its sleeker bullets makes more sense than fiddling with a 308. Also, pushing the shoulder forward to make a sort of Gibbs version of the 308 negates the use of factory ammo, which is one of the handier reasons to use a 308 to begin with. But oh well, to each his own.

The .308 pushes heavier bullets faster than the 7-08 and gives a wider wound channel. If you reload, why use factory ammunition? The .308 or 7-08 brass is still used if you slightly improve the case. And if you don't want to modify the case, then you don't do it. Bye the way, you're looking at about 51 grains of powder to the base of the neck.

I don't have either of those bullets, BUT...

22" barrel.

165 Hornady Interlock BTSP, Nosler case, 41.5 H-4895, Fed 210, OAL 2.815 .020 off, 2678fps
168 Nosler Billistic Tip.........., Nosler case, 41.5 H-4895, Fed 210, OAL 2.930, 030 off, 2642fps

155 Scanar OTM, Nosler case, 44.0 H-4895, Fed 210, OAL 2.820, .050 off, 2881fps

Dang, we're approaching mid-winter levels of pedantry.

Right!

The thread's about fast .308s, not about moderate loads. Some people such as myself don't accept the proposition that "although the .308 is good, the 7-08 is better".

Some people have brains and are functional. They buy the right tool for the job. If the job changes they buy a different tool.

And what might be the right tool for the job of "fastest safe .308 Win round you have worked up" Mr High IQ?

The question is posed on “Long Range” forum. Fastest doesn’t correspond to long range. A 150 gr lower BC bullet at 2,900 fps plus isn’t as effective nor precise in combating wind drift as a high BC 180 gr bullet at 2,600 fps out at 500 yds. The 308 Win made its military target bones using a 168 gr bullet at 2,570 fps. What are you really trying to accomplish with the 308 Win? Just my observation.

Typical Speeds, give or take per most loading manuals.
130gr class @ 3,100 fps
150gr class @ 2,925 fps
165gr class @ 2,735 fps
180gr class @ 2,625 fps
200gr class @ 2,450 fps

Getting each of those different weight projectiles going faster, provided accuracy is there, will be slightly better for long range e.g. a 165 at 2800 as I advocated.

I got 2820fps from my Tikka with a 22" barrel using 45grs of H4895. I was happy with it as that was a book max load and it shot great there. My Savage wouldn't shoot that well going that speed. I haven't tried any of the newer powders with it, so there may be more in it. Quite frankly, I haven't had much reason to use them as I have miserable luck getting Ball powders to shoot, and my .300WM will will get used if I need to go faster.

22" barreled Kimber Classic in .308 Win..

130 grain Barnes TTSX with max listed load of Tac powder in a Lapua case, Federal 210 match primer 3225 fps.

A moly 130 TTSX will go over 3400 in an '06 behind a pile of R15...likewise good result out of your 308, LFC.

Fastest? A few years back I was playing with the Barnes 110gr TTSX, and W748. Hit 3300+ with a 22" barrel, good accuracy.

My best long range load for the 308 is a 215gr Berger and RL-17 at 2600 fps from the same 22" barrel.

OAL on those, MM? Would they fit in a binderless AICS?

3.10" OAL. Just kisses the lands on a factory Rem 700 Varmint barrel.

I'm not familiar with a binderless AICS magazine.

What I have in my 308's is the Wyatts 2.99" internal box magazine. These are too long for that. Well, I can put one down the magazine, the point rests on the feed ramp. I just single load them though.

Swinging for the fence....1800 yards.

The AICS goes about the same as your Wyatts. Appreciate the info. I have an AICS setup on the kids' 700 in 300 savage, and am wondering if there's enough capacity in that case to burn R17 behind a heavy bullet like you're doing.

A lot of it will probably depend on how long the throat is in the rifle. You will need to seat them pretty long to gain some powder volume.

If I had to load near 2.8" standard 308 OAL, I doubt the 215 or 208 grain bullets would be very viable.

I settled on 46.0 grains of Varget in Nosler brass with the 155 Scenar. Out of my 16 inch Christensen it runs 2714fps and a 15 round string past the Labradar had a SD of 5.8 and ES of 15. Plus good groups.

Nice shot!