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Hi, what would be the best for cost efficiencies for practice if you didn’t plan on reloading for it? I certainly realize reloading would be best, but time is a premium and I rather spend it at the range. Appreciate it.
22 LR
.223 used to be cheap.
Practicing for what?
5.56
Originally Posted by NVhntr
Practicing for what?
Originally Posted by NVhntr
Practicing for what?
For distance. I am starting to extend my hunting ranges and would like to practice to 1000 yards or so, to be better at the 600-700 hunting ranges.
What are you intending to hunt?
For cheap range time and learn to dial and read wind 223 with heavies.
6.5cm or 308 to go further on the cheap.
To hunt with out to a 1000? 7 or 300 PRC. Obviously 300 win or 7 rem would be cheaper. I don’t know but Budget and long range just don’t mesh well
Originally Posted by Dre
For cheap range time and learn to dial and read wind 223 with heavies.
6.5cm or 308 to go further on the cheap.
To hunt with out to a 1000? 7 or 300 PRC. Obviously 300 win or 7 rem would be cheaper. I don’t know but Budget and long range just don’t mesh well
Thank you, I don’t think I would hunt to 1000, just practice. I have 6.5 prc with a short barrel so I think 600 or so would be max.
Originally Posted by basdjs
What are you intending to hunt?
I live in Colorado and chase elk, deer, and antelope, rifle and archery. Set up 6.5 prc to hopefully cover them all. My previous elk have been .270 and .308.
Originally Posted by BRSnow
Hi, what would be the best for cost efficiencies for practice if you didn’t plan on reloading for it? I certainly realize reloading would be best, but time is a premium and I rather spend it at the range. Appreciate it.

Practice with a fast twist 223 Rem, 6.5 Creed or 308 Winchester.
Your drops and wind corrections will be different, but that is not a big deal.

Another option:
Get a 22lr and put your hunting scope on it and run it from 50 yards to 200 yards.
to learn accuracy just the standard 22 LR at 25 YD. pit then 50 yard pit when can shoot extremely well at 50 yards you will know the difference then. good luck
Another option:
Get a 22lr and put your hunting scope on it and run it from 50 yards to 200 yards.[/quote]

Shooting a good 22lr with a dialing scope out to 200-300 yards will teach you a lot about dialing and holding elevation and windage corrections and good rifle techniques
There are a bunch of really good 22 rimfires. In my opinion they will teach you more about long range shooting at less cost per round than anything.
Originally Posted by Dre
For cheap range time and learn to dial and read wind 223 with heavies.
6.5cm or 308 to go further on the cheap.
To hunt with out to a 1000? 7 or 300 PRC. Obviously 300 win or 7 rem would be cheaper. I don’t know but Budget and long range just don’t mesh well

This, 77 or 80 grain bullets in a fast twist .223 will get you to 600 yards. Nothing but a .22 LR would be less expensive for practice.
Originally Posted by BRSnow
Hi, what would be the best for cost efficiencies for practice if you didn’t plan on reloading for it? I certainly realize reloading would be best, but time is a premium and I rather spend it at the range. Appreciate it.

You have been given some great advice.
You can see there is more than one way to skin the cat...Which way are you leaning?

FWIW-a fast twist 223 will get you past a grand, even with a 15" barrel.
If buying factory ammo, a good .22LR and a fast twist 223 or 6mm Creedmoor.
I use a combination of .22LR out to 200yds and .223 with 69s and 77s out to 600yds.

I really like practicing with a .22LR and when I competed in silhouette had a .22LR trainer built to mimic my match rifle. I reload for everything I own except for .22LR, but without a doubt the 2 calibers I shoot the most are .2LR and .223.

Both will give you some exercise in reading the wind. For .223s I've got 2 bolt guns, one mimics a standard sporter and the other a precision rig. My backyard range goes out to 760yds, and once the hay is out in late JUL/AUG I set up a "hunting" CoF to practice field position shooting with steel plates at varying distances in prep for hunting season.
Any gun with low-BC bullets will give you wind practice at the right range.
Generally, you want something that eliminates extraneous factors, like recoil.
Originally Posted by NVhntr
77 or 80 grain bullets in a fast twist .223 will get you to 600 yards. Nothing but a .22 LR would be less expensive for practice.

+1.

This super-cheap PSA AR is one of my more fun rifles (18" SS 223Wylde 1-8" barrel). It was a bit breezy Saturday morning so I did some 400yd shooting with 77's to see what kind of drift I'd get, and to check dope on a newly swapped scope. I only learn so much when I just shoot on the calm/still days. As much as I like bolt guns, I would have never thought I'd be grabbing an AR first thing to go do chores or stop by the range.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
I use a Ruger target .22 rifle with a suppressor, shooting sub sonic ammo. My scope has a 40 moa reticle (swfa 10x, side focus). 40 moa gets me out to 260 yards. 50 yard zero requires 7 moa holdover at 100 yards. Each yard is critical, so a quality range finder is a must.

This combo is super accurate, and with the sub sonic ammo, it doesn't lose accuracy, downrange. 1st round hits at 250 yards, on a soda can, is every time.....when I do my part.

Andy3
22LR steals the show,but very few folks have seen a GOOD one. Hint.

Pass the Vudoo and hold The Fluff. Hint..........
If time is a premium and you would rather spend it at the range, I would consider this:

Don't buy a different new rifle shooting a different caliber than your 6.5 PRC that you intend to actually use. Use that money to buy more of your chosen ammo for that 6.5 and go and practice with that. Shoot it at various distances and wind conditions from actual field positions, not just from the bench.

A different rifle will handle differently, trigger will break differently, trajectory and wind bucking will be different, all not conducive to having limited time on the range. Save your brass, you may reload one day.

Good luck with your decision and practice.

Regards,
Manny
Why even practice? Just tell everyone you have shot everything and are the self proclaimed master of all. Then shoot a few fish in trickle creek and throw your gun in the water by them for pics. Rotate pics every 5-25 years, and you should be able to BS 1 or 2 people at least.
KenBitchagain,

It is funnier than fhuqk,that you are enthralled with your Couchbound Kchunt CLUELESSNESS,exceedingly WELL founded Insecurities and just "happen" to be a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit to boot...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Fortunately for you and your ilk,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even YOU can "afford" to "contribute". Pardon wares that simply exist and this makes it a very BIG Day for you,because now you can say you've "seen" a Vudoo! Hint.

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Keep filling out those Hurt Feeler reports and "lauding" your Professional Victim Status. Hint.

Bless your poor poor(literally) heart.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..................
Oooooopsie! Some Mail just arrived. Hint.

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............
Originally Posted by BRSnow
Hi, what would be the best for cost efficiencies for practice if you didn’t plan on reloading for it? I certainly realize reloading would be best, but time is a premium and I rather spend it at the range. Appreciate it.

If you want to skip reloading and spend more time shooting the .22 LR is the best answer.

Lot's of other have said the same in this thread.

Set it up close to your 6.5 PCR and learn to range and read wind with the cheapest factory ammo.
I'll be looking for an AAR on that EP5. My SH4 G2 shipped today. Waiting to see what/what before I order the 2nd scope I needed. One for the 22-250, one for the 22lr. (which will likely end up on a Vuduu before end of 2023)
Dang...it weren't a Reupold after all. Hint.(grin)

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Am gonna lengthen the freebore(to 3.585" 180 ELD Smooch) and open neck(to .3150") of newest Custom 7mm RemMag and lengthen LOP 3/4". That'll give me some ADG clearance and it should shine bright. We'll see how this glass,do there. Hint.

KenBitchagain will be GLUED to her Couchbound Kchunt,in eager fhuqking anticipation. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............
Red Ryder BB gun
Originally Posted by KenMi
Why even practice? Just tell everyone you have shot everything and are the self proclaimed master of all. Then shoot a few fish in trickle creek and throw your gun in the water by them for pics. Rotate pics every 5-25 years, and you should be able to BS 1 or 2 people at least.

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]Kansas whitetail 2014 by Sharps Man, on [bleep]

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]Untitled by Sharps Man, on [bleep]
Great bucks, congratulations
If you cast your own you'll have an unlimited supply, and it doesn't matter what yer feedin...someone has to say it.
Originally Posted by Dre
For cheap range time and learn to dial and read wind 223 with heavies.
6.5cm or 308 to go further on the cheap.
To hunt with out to a 1000? 7 or 300 PRC. Obviously 300 win or 7 rem would be cheaper. I don’t know but Budget and long range just don’t mesh well

Great post Dre, but I think he wants to practice at 1,000 yards hoping to become proficient at 6-700 yards. The guy must be loaded, or half cocked though.. The only way you get good is by shooting a lot. Even guys with natural ability need to practice, and practicing that much with factory ammo just doesn't make sense.. To each their own I guess..
Originally Posted by JPro
Originally Posted by NVhntr
77 or 80 grain bullets in a fast twist .223 will get you to 600 yards. Nothing but a .22 LR would be less expensive for practice.

+1.

This super-cheap PSA AR is one of my more fun rifles (18" SS 223Wylde 1-8" barrel). It was a bit breezy Saturday morning so I did some 400yd shooting with 77's to see what kind of drift I'd get, and to check dope on a newly swapped scope. I only learn so much when I just shoot on the calm/still days. As much as I like bolt guns, I would have never thought I'd be grabbing an AR first thing to go do chores or stop by the range.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Very nice Jpro. I feel the same way about the 223 rem and AR's.. A lot of great advice here. I will generally take one of my AR's out when I go to the range as well. I shoot a lot at 400 yards and run a lot of 69gr sierra's. I'd step up to a 77, or not, if practicing out to 600-1000 yards. At 400 the 69 is pretty impressive. Great for practicing in the wind:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I'll shoot 3 shots to check POI when it is windy. I was holding 2 moa off on the last target and the wind still caught those bullets.. One thing that needs to be said. It's not always about the bullet. Here's a fast twist Tikka 22-250 I was shooting a couple weeks ago. Using 77 SMK's:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The group size is horrendous, but my hold over to the left was spot on for the wind call. Now, here's another Tikka 22-250 with a 1 in 14" twist barrel. The rifle is a little heavier, since it is the varmint model. It shoots 53gr v-max like nobody's business:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

That rifle and bullet will continually outshoot my CTR's chambered in 6.5 creedmoor.
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by Dre
For cheap range time and learn to dial and read wind 223 with heavies.
6.5cm or 308 to go further on the cheap.
To hunt with out to a 1000? 7 or 300 PRC. Obviously 300 win or 7 rem would be cheaper. I don’t know but Budget and long range just don’t mesh well

Great post Dre, but I think he wants to practice at 1,000 yards hoping to become proficient at 6-700 yards. The guy must be loaded, or half cocked though.. The only way you get good is by shooting a lot. Even guys with natural ability need to practice, and practicing that much with factory ammo just doesn't make sense.. To each their own I guess..

Thanks. I try! Lol.
Yeah I misunderstood the 1000 yarder. I was assuming since it is long range hunting.
This is also before I knew he has a 6.5 PRC
Originally Posted by BRSnow
Hi, what would be the best for cost efficiencies for practice if you didn’t plan on reloading for it? I certainly realize reloading would be best, but time is a premium and I rather spend it at the range. Appreciate it.

I'll brace for the howls, but someone that doesn't reload doesn't have any business shooting at game at 600 yds. The chances of finding a rifle/factory ammo that shoot well enough to do it are small, and shooting the amount of factory ammo needed to become proficient is cost prohibitive unless you're a hedge fund manager.
Crow hunter,
I will disagree with you on that you can't find factory ammo for killing at 600 yards.
The cost issue...That depends upon your financials.
I have seen Hornady TAP and Hornady Match (ELD-X's too for that matter) do real well at those distances on multiple guns with multiple barrel lengths
Originally Posted by mannyspd1
If time is a premium and you would rather spend it at the range, I would consider this:

Don't buy a different new rifle shooting a different caliber than your 6.5 PRC that you intend to actually use. Use that money to buy more of your chosen ammo for that 6.5 and go and practice with that. Shoot it at various distances and wind conditions from actual field positions, not just from the bench.

A different rifle will handle differently, trigger will break differently, trajectory and wind bucking will be different, all not conducive to having limited time on the range. Save your brass, you may reload one day.

Good luck with your decision and practice.

Regards,
Manny

Manny is very much SPOT ON here.

For years due to my occupation, I used a .308/7.62 and shot M118LR pretty much exclusively. I used it at work and I used it in competition as well as in the mountains and desert while hunting. For those not familiar, the M118 LR uses a Sierra 175 grain Matchking. Were there better projectiles? Sure. But when you shoot thousands of them from prone, from rooftops, from bipods/tripods, at work, then take them to the field hunting, you are extremely familiar with the drops, with wind calls, how they will do in mountain thermals, updrafts and downdrafts, etc.

You simply cannot replicate that familiarity shooting 3 different cartridges. I shot a bunch of various live targets with them, including deer, elk, and other things. Everything fell over dead.

Now that I retired from all that, I shoot 155 Scenars almost exclusively for .308s for the same reason.

I personally would shoot what you have exclusively and keep an old school data book of the conditions you shoot it in to record your notes.


By all means take advantage of the modern ballistic programs. They are excellent. But each time you shoot record the information on wind calls, come ups, etc. That way you have notes you can refer to.

This is an old note from shooting movers at 800, with an M24 and fixed 10. Not what I used these days but still useful for referring to.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]





Keeping good notes can also tell you when you may have an equipment or an ammo issue, such as when your gun was fine at 800, but you dial windage and elevation for 500 on a KD range and all of the sudden it can barely keep them on paper. Same lot of ammo too.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Nobody else said it but I will, what is the point pairing a 6.5 PRC WITH A SHORT BARREL?.. MB
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
Originally Posted by mannyspd1
If time is a premium and you would rather spend it at the range, I would consider this:

Don't buy a different new rifle shooting a different caliber than your 6.5 PRC that you intend to actually use. Use that money to buy more of your chosen ammo for that 6.5 and go and practice with that. Shoot it at various distances and wind conditions from actual field positions, not just from the bench.

A different rifle will handle differently, trigger will break differently, trajectory and wind bucking will be different, all not conducive to having limited time on the range. Save your brass, you may reload one day.

Good luck with your decision and practice.

Regards,
Manny

Manny is very much SPOT ON here.

For years due to my occupation, I used a .308/7.62 and shot M118LR pretty much exclusively. I used it at work and I used it in competition as well as in the mountains and desert while hunting. For those not familiar, the M118 LR uses a Sierra 175 grain Matchking. Were there better projectiles? Sure. But when you shoot thousands of them from prone, from rooftops, from bipods/tripods, at work, then take them to the field hunting, you are extremely familiar with the drops, with wind calls, how they will do in mountain thermals, updrafts and downdrafts, etc.

You simply cannot replicate that familiarity shooting 3 different cartridges. I shot a bunch of various live targets with them, including deer, elk, and other things. Everything fell over dead.

Now that I retired from all that, I shoot 155 Scenars almost exclusively for .308s for the same reason.

I personally would shoot what you have exclusively and keep an old school data book of the conditions you shoot it in to record your notes.


By all means take advantage of the modern ballistic programs. They are excellent. But each time you shoot record the information on wind calls, come ups, etc. That way you have notes you can refer to.

This is an old note from shooting movers at 800, with an M24 and fixed 10. Not what I used these days but still useful for referring to.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



Keeping good notes can also tell you when you may have an equipment or an ammo issue, such as when your gun was fine at 800, but you dial windage and elevation for 500 on a KD range and all of the sudden it can barely keep them on paper. Same lot of ammo too.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I'd agree 100% IF:

1. I had the money for ammo and more importantly the range to effectively practice with the real thing.

Example; there's not going to be a whole lot of learning to read conditions going on with a 6.5PRC on a 100yd range. But at 200-300 a .22LR works well for that, extend it some and a .223 does too.

2. IF I already had my basics down. If learning to shoot LR, there's a whole lot of practice to be done shooting from positions, backpack tripod etc. A lot of that can be worked on with a .22LR. I can (and do) spend and afternoon shooting working on just positions. With a .22LR or .223 recoil never becomes an issue. I even do some dryfire practice to work on positions in my basement.


So, IF you can't afford the ammo, or don't have the range, what's the solution? Like we say at work "Excellence is the enemy of good enough." or in the absence of perfection, we do nothing.
Originally Posted by Magnum_Bob
Nobody else said it but I will, what is the point pairing a 6.5 PRC WITH A SHORT BARREL?.. MB

He didn't say what length, unless I missed it somewhere.

I am guessing a 20-22 inch length for the sake of guessing...

If you want to shoot a short barrel for portability or to keep your OAL length down because of a suppressor, you just jump case capacity up some and you still get the performance level and accuracy level you want with a shorter package.

Or you can imply go that route because you want to...
Cost efficient would be a chamber in 223 Rem, 6mmARC or 6.5 Grendel on a Howa Mini platform. Plenty of aftermarket upgrades like gunstocks, magazine replacement, bottom metal replacement, etc. But for honing in one’s shooting skills a stock Howa mini rifle in those chambers with 20” or 22” barrel are nice, accurate shooters. They all have correct fast twist rates and offer excellent long range ballistic capability.
If you’re going to buy a new rifle, scope, and ammo for practice, how much factory ammo for your main hunting rifle could you buy?

Maybe just take the money you’d spend and buy ammo.





P
I'm not a big man bun guy but in enjoy shooting the 6.5 creedmoor at distance bc it shoots well with factory ammo and available and reasonable.
The .22 is hard to beat. Use a reduced size target at 100 yards. .
Back in my CMP shooting days,, our local club only had a 100 yard range. So we used the reduced targets for phases normally held at longer distances.
If using a scope remember to reduce the magnification as well.
Originally Posted by WStrayer
The .22 is hard to beat. Use a reduced size target at 100 yards. .
Back in my CMP shooting days,, our local club only had a 100 yard range. So we used the reduced targets for phases normally held at longer distances.
If using a scope remember to reduce the magnification as well.

This is what I do, with both 22LR and .223. Cheap effective practice, extend the range and get practice reading conditions.

Back when I was heavily into BPCRs; LR, Buffalo Matches and Silhouette, I conversed with a gentlemen who had one the international BPCR LR match in South Africa I was surprised to learn that he was from my home state of RI. as there's a definite shortage of LR practice opportunities there. His solution was to build a .22LR as the ballistics of the .22LR at 2-300 yds was similar to a .45-90 at distance. Since then I've been hooked on .22LR for practice.
Originally Posted by pete53
to learn accuracy just the standard 22 LR at 25 YD. pit then 50 yard pit when can shoot extremely well at 50 yards you will know the difference then. good luck

I like that answer pete. I often don't think about all the guys that did not grow up using a 22lr for practice, hunting, and just plain learning marksmanship. What I've been seeing lately is guys getting in to the game later in life, some in their 20's, 30's and even 40's or 50's. No disrespect to them, but they would in fact learn more about shooting, if they also started out with a good accurate 22lr. Start with irons like a lot of us did. I never did dry fire, never will since I shoot a lot of ammo at the range. And as a kid, I slayed a lot of schidt, while also target practicing with my dad just about every weekend. Countless hours of practice is what makes you good. Good instruction and muscle memory are key. And being very consistent is what makes you good at shooting long range.. A good shooting 22lr will tell you when you are making mistakes. Better to make those at the range, rather than on the killing fields.. JMHO..
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
If you’re going to buy a new rifle, scope, and ammo for practice, how much factory ammo for your main hunting rifle could you buy?

Maybe just take the money you’d spend and buy ammo.

P

^^Generally going to be the best solution.
I recently got a custom 6x47 Lapua for a similar role as a truck/practice rifle as the 6x47 Lapua run gently should have great barrel life.

I didn’t like the weight and balance of the 26” m24 barrel. Sent it to Kampfeld for a chop to 22” and spiral fluting which cut a little over 2.5 #’s off.

Much happier now, just waiting for the new scope. The 4-20 monarch was loose and just a place holder for now.

Attached picture 4F791F93-56CD-4927-8C45-8963C4E3CBD3.jpeg
I’ve got a Tikka CTR in 223 that is a lot of fun and man can you whistle some ammo through it. It’s accurate, easy to shoot and just works well.

The 22 LR is likely the best answer for sheer shooting but I don’t mind cranking on the Dillon to make ammo and it is a lot of fun.
Originally Posted by BRSnow
Hi, what would be the best for cost efficiencies for practice if you didn’t plan on reloading for it? I certainly realize reloading would be best, but time is a premium and I rather spend it at the range. Appreciate it.

22LR, same principles apply.

g
Sounds like the OP wants to buy a rifle... smile

I personally love practicing with the fast-twist .223AI I built. A fast twist .223 would be almost as good. I also really like that it’s on the same platform as most of my other rifles (M700), so the form factor, trigger, LOP, and so on are the same, or at least similar. My recoil-sensitive youngest daughter loves it too. Pic below is her tormenting some clays we hiked in to the clearing opposite. Range is around 500. It’s always windy in that particular canyon.

At least in terms of factory centerfire ammo, it doesn’t get any cheaper than .223....

Hat tip to Stick for the good advice on the stock, bottom metal, and mags.

Edit to add: if the OP doesn’t have an AR, that would be a great option too. BUT, the trigger will need to be upgraded, they have COAL limitations that directly effect longer-range practice, due to the bullets you can use, and the ergo’s are completely different than bolt guns, like REALLY different. And you can’t have just the one. smile

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
I would agree with the sentiment that a 22 is a good place to start. Ruger 10/22 and Marlin Model 60 are classics that are always touted for their quality.
I purchased a used savage anshultz 22 a few years ago. With the Tenex ammo it has shot sub half inch five shot groups at 100. Add a little wind and you have a good teacher rifle. Edk
Originally Posted by BRSnow
Hi, what would be the best for cost efficiencies for practice if you didn’t plan on reloading for it? I certainly realize reloading would be best, but time is a premium and I rather spend it at the range. Appreciate it.

Don’t lose sight of the OP. This is about an adult gun owner practicing, not so much about teaching a kid. I think an adult would very quickly get past the notion of dialing for elevation/wind at .22RF ranges and want to stretch things out... plus a 10/22 is a poor analogue for a hunting rifle, and I suspect the Anshultz is too.

I still say a .223/.223AI built on a full-size common hunting rifle action.
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Originally Posted by BRSnow
Hi, what would be the best for cost efficiencies for practice if you didn’t plan on reloading for it? I certainly realize reloading would be best, but time is a premium and I rather spend it at the range. Appreciate it.

Don’t lose sight of the OP. This is about an adult gun owner practicing, not so much about teaching a kid. I think an adult would very quickly get past the notion of dialing for elevation/wind at .22RF ranges and want to stretch things out... plus a 10/22 is a poor analogue for a hunting rifle, and I suspect the Anshultz is too.

I still say a .223/.223AI built on a full-size common hunting rifle action.

beretzs had a good suggestion with the CTR. That would be my vote, but I'd be handloading for it to get the most out of the platform/cartridge. That or the Cabela's exclusive Savage 12fv. I keep thinking that rifle, when I see this thread. Since they are a very good deal and generally shoot very well. They used to cost right around $400 and less when on sale. Throw a harris bi-pod on it and a SWFA SS fixed power on it and practice till your hearts content. I will also say that the 223 rem is an excellent tool for shooting and practicing long range, but don't think you are going to go out and do the same exact thing with your super magnum rifle after shooting and getting used to the 223. You might just get disappointed in the real effectiveness of your magnum rifle. Shooting them can be a whole other subject to discuss. Not directed at you Jeff, but to someone who has not shot a lot of magnums.
Wonder what theOP is going to do or what he did.
Originally Posted by beretzs
I’ve got a Tikka CTR in 223 that is a lot of fun and man can you whistle some ammo through it. It’s accurate, easy to shoot and just works well.

The 22 LR is likely the best answer for sheer shooting but I don’t mind cranking on the Dillon to make ammo and it is a lot of fun.

A lot of guys suggesting the 22lr. I guess if you haven't done a lot of shooting in your lifetime, that is a good approach. Practice bugholing the target at 50 yards. When you have accomplished that, stretch it out further? I grew up with them and they are mind numbingly boring to me. To the point I don't really like shooting them. I recently pulled my 10-22 out and dusted it off to test some different ammo I bought last year. In order to shoot the 22lr, I have to change it up a bit. Speed shoots for precision and that kind of stuff. Check out the day at the range Z challenge. Started doing that a few days ago, that is about the only way I actually enjoy shooting the 22lr, if I'm not shooting head to head matches. Last year I had the opportunity to shoot with some PRS guys running their fancy as fugg 22lr's (vudoo's and such running Nightforce ATACR's and Gen III Razors) set up on big tripods, they were at the local 400 yard range and not hitting schidt. They were returning from a tournament in Idaho. I was shooting my 204 Ruger that day and that rifle was not spectacular at 400 yards, but sufficient enough to make some hits on live targets at 411 yards:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

It's getting to be that time of the year again, those critters are running around out there sunning themselves. Dre was wondering what the OP decided on, but I doubt we will hear from him again. Did the OP take some of the good advice given, or is he still practicing minimally with his 6.5 PRC and likely developing bad habits?? I'd also urge the OP to take 2 rifles out and shoot them side by side. His 6.5 PRC being one of them. Shoot it against a precise 223 remington. I don't care if it is an AR15 or bolt action. Practice is practice. The OP will need to know how his hunting rifle (PRC) stacks up against the practice rifle he chooses. Lets say he's shooting 3" groups at 400 with his 223 rem and 6" groups with his magnum rifle. That will tell him that he needs a lot of practice, with both rifles. Hell, shoot at 100 yards if need be until you master your rifle. All the same rules of marksmanship apply at long range as it does for short range. Proficiency is key and practice is the only way you are going to become proficient. To the OP, I would not bare down on a big game animal at 600 yards until you are proficient in your shooting ability. Just how I see it.
^ great post BSA
My opinion for lots of affordable practice is a 223 bolt action. For center fire rounds, for the non reloader, it doesn’t get any cheaper. For some reason they’re less expensive than the 22 Hornet, 222 Remington, and 221 Fireball even though they hold more powder and larger amount of brass. The other advantage is that it’s more available than the others even in these times. I reload but I still have gobs of factory 223 that I use to train or practice with every now and then. It won’t match the other rifles you have but the trigger time is very valuable. Things to make sure you get the most value is to treat each trip to the range or wherever you go as a serious session. Change up a few things like only shooting at 200 or more yards, never again shoot at 100 yards. On occasion, set up the paper target at 300 or 350 and see how you do and if the drop is what it needs to be when compared to shorter distances. Try a few times going out to 500 with paper targets, but be careful spending a lot of time there as it can screw you up if little progress is made. If that happens, stop at that distance and come back later. This could tell you if your turrets or zero stop is working too. I can’t see the 223 being a performer much past 650 yards but the form, technique and experience you gain from all that cheap practice will pay off on all the other long range you do. Another thing that I found helps is to shoot other targets. Steel is good and small rocks are good fun. Too much paper targets gets boring and I feel lends itself to more mistakes or sloppy shooting. Shooting things other than paper does something to the brain that seems to enhance focus. To get the most out of those targets, the size is important. A 5-8" steel target at 500 yards is better than a 24” or torso type steel gong that most kids can hit after a little warm up. Same goes for the size of rocks.
Great post. I agree. Way more fun to shoot “things”.

Couple thoughts…. .223AI is better still; be sure to get a fast twist; and one issue with 223/223Ai is spotting your shots at longer distances. They don’t move much dirt, they don’t make the “whop!” on a steel plate. Clays are a fun thing to shoot at, cheap, and you can usually tell when you hit them. I actually put a brake on my AI so that I could easily see my shots. Even a 223 can jump enough to lose the sight picture, if it’s a light build.

A fast twist AI with a mag setup allowing a longer COAL opens a lot of really fun doors. I don’t know what the “best” bullet to use these days is, but the 75 ELDM is pretty awesome. Just in case somebody doesn’t know this, you can (and must, actually, it’s how you make your brass) shoot .223 in a .223AI.
223 or 308 would be great options. Look on GB. There are always good deals on there.
In consideration of this same question, I went with the 6.5 CM, affordable and easy to shoot (I already have a 308).
Originally Posted by 257Bob
In consideration of this same question, I went with the 6.5 CM, affordable and easy to shoot (I already have a 308).

That's the beauty in both of those cartridges. Have you ever tried the 223 for shooting further out? They are all fun to practice with. Since the op does not want to handload, those 3 cartridges are probably on the top of the list, for what he's wanting: IMHO.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Originally Posted by PaintedDesert
My opinion for lots of affordable practice is a 223 bolt action. For center fire rounds, for the non reloader, it doesn’t get any cheaper. For some reason they’re less expensive than the 22 Hornet, 222 Remington, and 221 Fireball even though they hold more powder and larger amount of brass. The other advantage is that it’s more available than the others even in these times. I reload but I still have gobs of factory 223 that I use to train or practice with every now and then. It won’t match the other rifles you have but the trigger time is very valuable. Things to make sure you get the most value is to treat each trip to the range or wherever you go as a serious session. Change up a few things like only shooting at 200 or more yards, never again shoot at 100 yards. On occasion, set up the paper target at 300 or 350 and see how you do and if the drop is what it needs to be when compared to shorter distances. Try a few times going out to 500 with paper targets, but be careful spending a lot of time there as it can screw you up if little progress is made. If that happens, stop at that distance and come back later. This could tell you if your turrets or zero stop is working too. I can’t see the 223 being a performer much past 650 yards but the form, technique and experience you gain from all that cheap practice will pay off on all the other long range you do. Another thing that I found helps is to shoot other targets. Steel is good and small rocks are good fun. Too much paper targets gets boring and I feel lends itself to more mistakes or sloppy shooting. Shooting things other than paper does something to the brain that seems to enhance focus. To get the most out of those targets, the size is important. A 5-8" steel target at 500 yards is better than a 24” or torso type steel gong that most kids can hit after a little warm up. Same goes for the size of rocks.

Everyone is different here. I feel exactly the opposite about shooting paper. The reason you may be getting bored or lose focus is because the paper does NOT lie and guys have a hard time with that. Shooting steel gets boring to me. I have to focus on small targets to keep things interesting.
Paper is definitely needed and required. I just find that too much is not helpful. It’s trying to find the right amount. I found this is especially true for archery. I had my bow right next to my back door and would try to shoot a 5 shot group every day at 40 yards, the max I could do in my backyard. This was in the months before archery deer season. 5 shots at 40 every day or close to every day was very helpful. If I did more, I didn’t see any benefit. When I would go to the archery range and shot the 3D course, it felt like it was very helpful and I found I could keep going and didn’t make sloppy errors because it felt a little more interesting not just shooting at small foam dots. If I could shoot paper every day and no other targets, I would, but not a ton just a small amount.
I only use paper to get zero, and check zero. I practice lots with the Savage bolt gun in .223, 25 gn. of CFE under a 73 gn. ELDM bullet, and if I`m doing my math correctly, a pound produces 280 rounds. As far as targets, last year we had a very bad summer storm that uprooted a large tract of forest 5 miles from the house. Logers went in and cleaned up the mess, but the blown over trees brought rocks up in their root systems. These exposed rocks are super targets, and any misses on my part, are cought in dirt still clinging to the roots. Shooting siting off my bi-pod, I have targets anywhere from 50 out to 550 yrds. I`ve expended a few rounds there.
Rocks are a lot of fun. The smaller the better. I make sure I’m not shooting at a softball sized rock or anything too big, usually .75 MOA sized +or- so I can hopefully get better and better over time. At the range I go to, there are berms at 200-500 yards. At the berms, you can scan and find small, golf ball sized rocks at random. When you hit one square, it sounds so cool, it’s an unmistakable sound. It also throws up a cloud of dust a different color than the dirt. I sometimes set the rocks up when snow is covering the ground or to speed up finding them in the scope. I also have a steel plate that’s 6" round. I take it to 500 yards, hang it on a T-post and have fun with it. Most of that shooting is done with my 223 bolt and a few gas/Varminter rifles because of cost and volume of rounds per month. I usually take 2-3 different rifles out there because I switch off after 10 rounds to keep the temperature down and allows me to practice with different ones and not get bored. The 338-06 and .270 is a lot of fun with those small rocks.
I use paper when doing load development, zeroing and diagnosing issues (rifle, load or me). The majority of my practice is on steel from field positions. Luckily my backyard range goes out to 760yds. Pictured is my M357MSP (Mobile Shooting Platform) cause the chiggers & ticks just suck in KS.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


In prep for hunting season I'll set up a CoF, so we can practice from field positions. Not the best picture, but you'll get the idea:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

200yd off-hand going out to 540yds.

IF the size of the plate is too large, it's very easy to makes a stencil for what ever size "bullseye" you're looking for. Then, at least with the larger plate, you'll also be able to see the misses, like the TGT on the left:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Here's another:

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]IMG_2992 by .com/photos/61286670@N08/]Sharps Man, on [bleep]
When i went through sniper school one instructor had us dry fire our rifle for hours with snap caps chambered. The traget was about the size of the tip of pencil eraser. The drill could be done across a room or out to about 25 yards. it was excellant and allowed you work on breaking the trigger and not inducing movement in the reticle. I used that drill throughout my time as a sniper. Cheap, but productive.
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Great post. I agree. Way more fun to shoot “things”.

Couple thoughts…. .223AI is better still; be sure to get a fast twist; and one issue with 223/223Ai is spotting your shots at longer distances. They don’t move much dirt, they don’t make the “whop!” on a steel plate. Clays are a fun thing to shoot at, cheap, and you can usually tell when you hit them. I actually put a brake on my AI so that I could easily see my shots. Even a 223 can jump enough to lose the sight picture, if it’s a light build.

A fast twist AI with a mag setup allowing a longer COAL opens a lot of really fun doors. I don’t know what the “best” bullet to use these days is, but the 75 ELDM is pretty awesome. Just in case somebody doesn’t know this, you can (and must, actually, it’s how you make your brass) shoot .223 in a .223AI.

You gotta be JeffO dumb to lose sight picture with a .223AI and then come on here giving shooting advise as if you know wtf you are talking about.

Seriously.
Because spotting bullet strikes from a .223 is easy at longer ranges. Got it. 🙄

It’s a 20” mountain profile barrel. She jumps pretty good. The brake I made works great and makes it nice & easy to see the strikes. Facts.

Your thoughts?
Kimber Montana .223AI out to 1,350 and can easily spot hits and misses on steel with good technique behind the rifle and a bit of thought put into setting up targets.

Brake on a .223? TFF
I was actually kidding.

IDGAF about your thoughts. smile
Please tell the readers of the 24HCF about forming .223AI brass again.
I was really surprised how hard the 75 AMAX smacked steel the first time I shot at ~1000 yards with a 22" .223. I was shooting a 22" 7mm-08 with 162 AMAX at the time and the difference was much less than I expected.

I'm like Higgi and make sure that I position targets carefully, regardless of cartridges being fired in order to get as much feedback as possible.
Back on topic...

I reload, and the prices on store ammo is ridiculous.

My recent rebarrel was a 6 x 45, with plenty of 6mm bullets around here...

70 to 90 grain bullets have the ability to reach out there significantly, even when using powders like Blue Dot.

So far with the right scope on top, and 70 gr Speer TNTs, and Blue Dot loads I've worked up.. been hitting Steel out to 500 meters...15.5 grains of powder per shot...

with Benchmark, H 322 and W 748, max charges are between 25 to 29 grains depending on bullet weights, per shot.

If push comes to shove in this nation under the DemocRats or against the attacking our country, 300 to 500 yds is going to be a lot more than you need.
Originally Posted by Seafire
Back on topic...

I reload, and the prices on store ammo is ridiculous.

My recent rebarrel was a 6 x 45, with plenty of 6mm bullets around here...

70 to 90 grain bullets have the ability to reach out there significantly, even when using powders like Blue Dot.

So far with the right scope on top, and 70 gr Speer TNTs, and Blue Dot loads I've worked up.. been hitting Steel out to 500 meters...15.5 grains of powder per shot...

with Benchmark, H 322 and W 748, max charges are between 25 to 29 grains depending on bullet weights, per shot.

If push comes to shove in this nation under the DemocRats or against the attacking our country, 300 to 500 yds is going to be a lot more than you need.

Good post, and thanks for getting this thread back on topic. For fu cks sake, some of the dumb schidt you read here.
Originally Posted by Sharpsman

sharps, that's a heck of a buck. congrats!
Originally Posted by Higginez
Kimber Montana .223AI out to 1,350 and can easily spot hits and misses on steel with good technique behind the rifle and a bit of thought put into setting up targets.

Brake on a .223? TFF
You must have your gun anchored down or shooting a heavy rifle. My guns jump high right everytime I have spotted my shots with a .223 sometimes but never with a .223ai. My guns are all 9lb and under and I shoot in hunter class.
Prairie goat gave you the best answer to your question, there is....
To take it a step further, to practice for .22, shoot a quality air gun..
Originally Posted by TrueGrit
Originally Posted by Higginez
Kimber Montana .223AI out to 1,350 and can easily spot hits and misses on steel with good technique behind the rifle and a bit of thought put into setting up targets.

Brake on a .223? TFF
You must have your gun anchored down or shooting a heavy rifle. My guns jump high right everytime I have spotted my shots with a .223 sometimes but never with a .223ai. My guns are all 9lb and under and I shoot in hunter class.

I was shooting the braked 223AI today. As always, super easy to spot my shots. Where I shoot (coast range clearcuts) you take what you can get in terms of the surface of the target area but what you DON’T get is clean dirt or rocks like in many other regions. Lots of organic matter…. Having done it both ways, I can say I *know* how easy that cute lil’ brake makes things.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Originally Posted by jpretle
Prairie goat gave you the best answer to your question, there is....
To take it a step further, to practice for .22, shoot a quality air gun..

Seasons ago, I took my CZ 452 out and was shooting targets at 100 yds with 22 LR, Federal 550 count boxes.

I'd shoot a 100 rounds per outing, just in the woods, 1/2 mile from the house.

25 rounds at each target, from various positions. Do that, give a rest a day or two, and then do it again. Changed things up here and there. I certainly could tell ya, how much smaller my groups became in just two weeks.

Burnt up two of those boxes in a little over 2 weeks, 1100 rounds.

Certainly was some good practicing, for cheap in those days... that was when you could get a box of 550 rounds from Federal, for like $8.99. That ship sailed a long time ago.
cheapest I have found 22 ammo
https://www.sgammo.com/product/22-l...ulk-pack-40-grain-lead-1200-fps-ammo-am2
Originally Posted by BRSnow
Hi, what would be the best for cost efficiencies for practice if you didn’t plan on reloading for it? I certainly realize reloading would be best, but time is a premium and I rather spend it at the range. Appreciate it.
Given these specs, how can a Ruger American Rifle be beaten? 223.
Do they have good aftermarket triggers available? That’s critical IMHO.
Timney makes one and it’s very good.
Excellent. Got a customer who I take shootin’ who likes my .223AI and wants a rifle. He won’t do an AR for political reasons. I’m gonna send him a link to the Ruger. They are generally off my radar as I frankly don’t associate the brand with high quality or accuracy- which may not be fair.
Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Excellent. Got a customer who I take shootin’ who likes my .223AI and wants a rifle. He won’t do an AR for political reasons. I’m gonna send him a link to the Ruger. They are generally off my radar as I frankly don’t associate the brand with high quality or accuracy- which may not be fair.
The only real issue is that you've got to think about magazines.
Even a Newbie to distance, can do quite a bit, even with a 15 inch 223 Remington. I had fun spotting for him.
Even better with a 223AI! I love mine; my recoil-sensitive daughters absolutely adore it. I run 75 EDLM’s but I think Stick has ID’d something a skootch better yet.
and some are still dumb enough to be a proud Democrat..
good points
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